Primera Air

[daz211]

As previously announced, Primera Air starts flying to New York, Toronto and Boston from London Stansted from April 2018 and have also added Alicante, Malaga and today Stansted Airport seems to be reporting flights to Palma. For the next two years Primera Air will increase its presence at existing bases and open other transatlantic routes and new bases, as the airline has 20 new Boeing Max9-ER on order.

[nwoody2001]

For the UK, the following schedule currently being proposed by Primera is as follows:

Stansted
Alicante - 7x weekly
Boston - 4x weekly
Malaga - 7x weekly
New York - 7x weekly
Toronto - 3x weekly

Birmingham
Boston - 4x weekly
Malaga - 7x weekly
New York - 7x weekly
Palma - 7x weekly
Toronto - 3x weekly

Be interesting to see what, if any, addiotnal flights are added for their 2018 schedule

[daz211]

Regarding Stansted I’m not sure if it was an error but Stansted Airport tweeted this morning and mentioned 3 new routes to Spain AGP ALC and PMI I have looked on Primera Air web site but no mention of PMI from Stansted only Birmingham

[pamann]

They could probably squeeze in a STN-PMI night rotation, seeing most of the leisure companies can do three relatively short there and backs in a day from the south UK.

[sparkie320]

Not sure some are aware but NWI have had this 737 here since April having deep skin replacement work on her, does anyone know when she due out
we been at NWI awaiting and i managed a few shots of her when the hanger doors been opened

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4249/34997367706_c6afe154dd_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/VjAE8u)Boeing 737-800WL YL-PSD (https://flic.kr/p/VjAE8u) by Mark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88573897@N03/), on Flickr

[southside bobby]

Appears maybe leased/owned GECAS.
Also appears the above is not the very latest posted photo of this a/c.
Work seems to have progressed subtly as if compared with the above a later shot in the same position shows the standard Boeing "green" coating over the bare metal portrayed above.

[N707ZS]

Anyone know what the original skin problem was caused by. Looks like some serious dismantling to get at the repair with that plank through the flight deck windows.

[fjencl]

Will the a321's that Primera Air use for the transatlantic routes from BHX and STN airports have crew rest areas, or do they not need to have crew rest areas.......

Just wondered

[canberra97]

I shouldn't imagine for that there will be any dedicated crew rest areas added to to the A321's especially considering the length of the transatlantic flights and the small amount of crew on board.

[fjencl]

Thanks for answering the question, I wasn't sure on the legalities and the needs for crew rest areas on aircraft, so I just thought I would ask.......

[daz211]

I heard through the grape vine that the next route to be announced in spring 2018 is likely to be Montreal and Boston, Toronto to go daily this all depends on how books are going in the new year.

[southside bobby]

Sounding promising,tho would that be Montreal being tied with Boston perhaps? as Boston is already announced & 4 pw.
Toronto to daily would mean another a/c anyway as both based a/c fully committed with the existing announcements/plans.
Goods news from the grapevine tho.

[USERNAME_]

Hey guys,

I’ve just read into their planned operation, and it strikes me as incredibly brave and/or stupid.
I’m certainly no expert so do you think they will be able to survive against the legacy carriers and the likes of WOW and Norwegian, or do you think it’s going to flop?

I see they’re also going to chime into the short haul market from stansted with Malaga and Alicante being added.

Will it last?

I certainly hope so, return flights in the middle of August to New York for £350, count me in.

[gilesdavies]

They have been going few years, so hopefully they know what they're doing...

If you are booking flights with them, I'd book with a credit card, and will ensure you are protected under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, if anything goes wrong.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

[Plane.Silly]

I’ve just read into their planned operation, and it strikes me as incredibly brave and/or stupid.
I see they’re also going to chime into the short haul market from stansted with Malaga and Alicante being added. Will it last?

I wouldn't say it's stupid. having a small short haul operation allows them to make better use of the staff they have to employ to get the long haul off the ground.

They've chosen what are probably the most popular short haul market to stand the best chance of selling seats, although the vast amount of competiton would make this more difficult to sell.

They have good reasons to do it, but time will tell if it works

[ATNotts]

They have been going few years, so hopefully they know what they're doing...

If you are booking flights with them, I'd book with a credit card, and will ensure you are protected under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, if anything goes wrong.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

Why mention this with regard to Primera? Money Saving Expert recommends that for all purchases of goods / services in excess of £100. As recent history has shown you don't have to be small to fail - whether an airline, furniture retailer or whatever.

[southside bobby]

Primera Air confident with their planning as they increased their order for B737 MAX-9`s by another two yesterday now for a total of ten.
A/C will have 4000m range & open more markets.

[ATNotts]

As long as they maintain a clear strategy, and market themselves well, not solely through online / social media they should do well, tapping as they are unserved or underserved markets. Crucial will be their marketing in North America, but I feel sure they know that and don't need to be lectured by anyone here!

If they fall for any temptations to go head to head with the likes of Norwegian at Gatwick or Thomas Cook at Manchester things could go horribly pear shaped.

[gnarlberg]

has somebody applied for 321neo ops and already got an answer?

[USERNAME_]

As long as they maintain a clear strategy, and market themselves well, not solely through online / social media they should do well, tapping as they are unserved or underserved markets. Crucial will be their marketing in North America, but I feel sure they know that and don't need to be lectured by anyone here!



The only marketing I have seen from them has been on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter and small adverts around Stansted airport and nothing else, stateside I have seen nothing at all.

[southside bobby]

The holding company that own Primera Air consist primarily of Scandi tour operators..
I would suspect certainly with the sun routes they will be using that hard bitten expertise & undoubted familiarity with the Med to influence & make their market.
Generally perhaps too as it is a young outfit with undoubted young thinking they will realise social media platforms mentioned above are the modern way to go.
It is acknowledged these platforms when properly targeted reach the right audience...witness at the very least Obama`s Presidential wins & the Labour Party surprise on election night.
MAG too will have info from prospective customers who will have been canvassed in the past concerning TransAtlantic service from STN.

[USERNAME_]

A little concerned about their advertising, or lack of. Apart from small adverts in Birmingham New Street and at Stansted Airport, there is literally nothing else in London or elsewhere other than social media and word of mouth.

[SWBKCB]

Are adverts in train stations relevant nowadays? Probably more important is going into Skyscanner and checking various dates in July for LON-NYC-LON, guess who's top of the list ?

[daz211]

A little concerned about their advertising, or lack of. Apart from small adverts in Birmingham New Street and at Stansted Airport, there is literally nothing else in London or elsewhere other than social media and word of mouth.

Don’t be worrying yourself with advertising as I have said before Primera have been very clever both BHX and STN flights all are been well advertised on it own website which sounds a strange thing to say but all the people using flight comparison websites for a trip to AGP or ALC will see transatlantic on offer next to the sun flight not only that but the people who book the sun routes will see transatlantic flights at bag drop in the inflight magazine and hopefully on the overhead bins like Jet2 I’m also sure or at least hope there will be scratch cards for sale onboard the sun flights offering prizes including transatlantic flights also don’t underestimate how many people pass through both airports that will be hit with advertising for transatlantic flights once you calculate even the daily amount of passengers who see/hear all of the above you see just how much advertising has been and will be done.

[canberra97]

With regards to PRIMERA advertising, I've seen numerous adverts online and they even advertise in our local paper the Daily Echo, considering that both BHX and STN are over 120 miles away by road from Southampton that's not bad.

[Skipness One Echo]

I would suspect certainly with the sun routes they will be using that hard bitten expertise & undoubted familiarity with the Med to influence & make their market.
Generally perhaps too as it is a young outfit with undoubted young thinking they will realise social media platforms mentioned above are the modern way to go.
Social selling as a concept is a top of funnel tool to raise brand awareness and consideration. Next to no one clicks intentionally on display or banner ads but they do cement awareness in some, mainly older people who aren’t savvy enough to get an adblocker.
One really bad season can kill any carrier, so long as they spend on SEO for cheap flights and remain top of consideration on skyscanner or expedia by price then they’re in the game. Of course how they are going to make money on that price is a different question. Billboards and OOH advertising are frankly a waste of money in this market IMHO

[USERNAME_]

https://primeraair.com/travel-info/fees/

Have a read of those extra fees! £60 for a premium meal!

[Jerry123]

Makes upgrading seem a bargain then doesn't it?

[daz211]

Your last few posts seem to be very negative against this new venture starting to think you have some sort of agenda, anything positive to say ? Let’s just wait and see how things go I hold my hands up and say I would have rather a well established airline had come along and offered said routes but I’m willing to give them a good good go before running them down.

Maybe the reason for you negative posts is because you took Norwegian up on the job offer ?

[USERNAME_]

Your last few posts seem to be very negative against this new venture starting to think you have some sort of agenda, anything positive to say ?

Not the case at all, I very much hope this works!
And no, I didn’t take Norwegian :)

[daz211]

Brilliant so you went with Primera good move because I hear if things go well we could see the base get a little bigger and from experience it’s always better to get into a company at the beginning rather than be the newbie
Hope it all goes well for you if indeed you chose primera

[gnarlberg]

somebody who recently started at Primera and can tell me some things? I do have some questions regarding screening and T&C...

[MAJP]

Primera Air Scandinavia is mulling launching flights to Montréal Trudeau and either Baltimore Thurgood Marshall or Washington Dulles out of its European bases in order to further establish itself on the low-cost long-haul market, CEO Hrafn Thorgeirsson told Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrivers/2017/12/08/primera-air-targets-washington-d-c-montreal-for-next-transatlantic-routes/#563b9e37fa37

[southside bobby]

Regarding the above & link...very positive & encouraging & will also make it the second time Montreal has been mentioned in association with PRI,makes sense & even more so for Paris.
PRI also looking at Eastbound flights which WOW are contemplating too.

[USERNAME_]

I’m no expert in regards to US Airports, so does anybody have any idea as to which terminals PF are going to use at BOS/EWR?

And does anybody know when the first aircraft are being delivered, as I can’t see PF on any sort of delivery schedule.

[daz211]

Some very worrying posts have started to appear on the Birmingham thread regarding reduced and delayed schedules for BOSTON and NEWYORK, I’m unsure if true or where they first started but nothing is on the Stansted thread, can anyone throw any light on the situation?

[USERNAME_]

Some very worrying posts have started to appear on the Birmingham thread regarding reduced and delayed schedules for BOSTON and NEWYORK, I’m unsure if true or where they first started but nothing is on the Stansted thread, can anyone throw any light on the situation?

Appears the aircraft may not be delivered on time.
But finally found one:
https://digitalairliners.com/2018/01/20/log-hamburg-finkenwerder-xfw-20-1-2018/

NO-REG A21N 8145 Primer fuselage section (for Primera)

Not sure what that means, but finally found a Primera aircraft on the production lists.

[Centre cities]

Some very worrying posts have started to appear on the Birmingham thread regarding reduced and delayed schedules for BOSTON and NEWYORK, I’m unsure if true or where they first started but nothing is on the Stansted thread, can anyone throw any light on the situation?

The BHX appears to be one aircraft until late September with the aircraft operating 4 New York and 3 Toronto per week with Boston delayed until the second aircraft late September.

The speculation is late delivery but this is not confirmed and may not be correct.

I would not be surprised if there were further changes.

I do not know about the Stansted or Paris situation.

Better to asct now rather than in the peek booking season where many more passengers would be displaced.

Centre cities

[SWBKCB]

Don't they need to get the new a/c ETOPS certified as well, so not just about delivery. All looks very tight.

[daz211]

But all Birmingham flights are still on sale on the website with the original launch dates and frequency.

[OltonPete]

daz211

Yes technically you are right, it is wrong to sell flights that are not operating but it could be as simple as the iT department have not caught up with the directive from their route planning team.

To be honest if anyone is daft enough to think basic economy is £1400 return does not get too much sympathy from me when the Primera website clearly shows the day before and day after as £189 one way.

It shouldn't happen but it does and it not just Primera. Booking Newark of course is not as bad as you can re-book or chose the day before or day after for a reasonable fare although Boston you can't and you would have to wait months or rebook from Stansted.

Also there is no official announcement although GDS is clear about the revised schedule and GDS is correct as far as I know.

[USERNAME_]

Is it showing any changes in schedule from STN?

[EIFFS]

It’s been said before, book with a credit card any fee ( not now legal in the UK) is worth the fee to insure against this project not flying.

ETOPS or lack of is not a show stopper but adds cost due to longer flights limiting payload, a bigger show stopper will be crews without C1 visas

[daz211]

Think it would have been safer (if all new bases are affected) to choose Stansted run a full planned operations and maybe have Birmingham as short haul holiday routes just until you get things sorted even if the problem is real and bigger than speculated it would be better to lease a few aircraft to run a full operation from Stansted what’s the point in pissing off passengers at all new bases.

[HZ123]

A tall order to use social media as maybe the main source of revenue production, however, it certainly works. I guess the a/c will interchange between longhaul / shorthaul but that leads me to assume there will be a heck of a lot of seats on the a/c. Minimum washrooms (2). The trick is to get returning custom as well and quickly. Someone suggested good management well did not Carrilion and Monarch have that, plus to many companies gone west to mention.
I would suggest that the uptake of route operation will have to be reduced anyway as this mark of a/c is yet to be tried and tested. The B787 engine problem is a typical example of how quickly things can go wrong.
It is a bold step and i wish them the best. Mind I do not know many midlanders that would pay £6 for a meal let alone £60 (no offence - but I can only speak as I have found). The downside I suppose is that if it does OK how long before competition arrives and is our appetite fuelled by credit able to sustain more flying?

[INKJET]

It will be fascinating to see how this unfolds, from Wikipedia they have just 7 or 8 aircraft in their current fleet and seemed to have made around €8m on a turnover of 260m.

The start up costs will be substantial to say the least and the brand is virtually unknown in Europe let alone the USA, no feed or connecting traffic that I can see, so totally reliant on point to point traffic.

I would say that they are betting the company on this venture, Norwegian did the same with long haul, but they were 10 times bigger and started from bases where they were well known and it nearly sunk them and they are still less profitable now than they were then!!

[daz211]

Looking at their website, under plan your trip, then looking at transatlantic flights, Boston is only shown as serving STN and CDG not mention of BHX what so ever.

[BHX5DME]

Lots going on it would appear but not looking good !

[daz211]

Maybe a bit ambitious from the start but they need to get something sorted and make some big decisions this is going to get out soon beyond this forum and it could be catastrophic if it were me I would concentrate on one UK base get it right before expanding routes and bases I personally would scrap BHX all together put everything into STN as I understand STN is selling considerably better than BHX time will tell be interesting to see what happens over the next month or so.

[Skipness One Echo]

Getting a flyglobespan flashback suddenly, when making money on shorthaul is just not enough.

[toledoashley]

Maybe also a reminder that wasn't 2x daily BHX to JFK planned by Monarch?

Maybe leveraging a more well-known brand either side of the pond may make more sense.

[Navpi]

There certainly appears signs of drift that needs sorting ASAP and yet the management seem oblivious.

It always seemed odd duplicating routes that are relatively close to each other at the UK end.

It's turning into a complete mess.

[daz211]

I’m hearing some passengers on flights from Birmingham to both Boston and Newyork have this evening received emails advising that their flights have been cancelled.
I’m not hearing anything regarding Stansted flights at this time.

[BDS10]

I've posted the following on the Birmingham thread taken from another forum: "The website has now been updated, New York is daily until Jun 23rd when it goes 4x weekly and there is nothing available for Boston. Toronto remains unaffected".

[daz211]

Well at least some schedule is better than none I just hope they have sorted it out quickly enough and people have not yet been put off from booking.

[478152]

Booked with them for a PMI BHX flight very soon after the start date, hopefully nothing I need to worry about. Very good price though, £80 including a bag. Booked with a credit card though just in case!

[daz211]

No I wouldn’t worry the problem seems to be a delay in the longhaul aircraft only so should not affect PMI flights

[Matt995]

Primera Air has a record year as it prepares to launch new transatlantic routes


Primera Air issued this statement:

2017 was a record year for Primera Air – the airline has carried more than 1 million passengers with a total number of 1,017,657. Direct sales on the website have grown a staggering 125.8% and the Company’s revenue has increased by 13.7% compared to 2016. All figures have been reached with a consistent load factor of 85%.

Primera Air is opening new bases in Birmingham (BHX), London Stansted (STN) and Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG) to commence flights to New York, Boston and Toronto in April, along with new routes from the UK to Málaga, Palma de Mallorca, Alicante, Barcelona and Chania.

In the next two years, Primera Air plans to increase its presence at its current bases and to add new transatlantic routes and bases, as the airline has 20 new Boeing 737-9 MAX 9s on order.

Primera Air is a scheduled carrier serving flights to more than 70 destinations in Europe. The airline is based in Denmark and Latvia and is part of the Primera Travel Group, which includes travel agencies and tour operators in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Iceland and Estonia.

http://worldairlinenews.com/2018/01/26/primera-air-has-a-record-year-as-it-prepares-to-launch-new-transatlantic-routes/

[Trav a la]

Some pretty disgruntled passengers here

Primera Air Advance Cancellation - my rights - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73788843#post73788843)

[EIFFS]

Well given the MAX can’t do westbound from Ireland or Scotland direct to the east coast with a full load in anything other than very favourable wind conditions the MAX 9 will have no chance from BHX let alone STN & CDG, anyway I thought this outfit was getting the A321 NeoLR ?

[compton3bravo]

Personally I would not touch Primera with a barge pole (see my previous posts) but the good old Brits see a price that is too good to be true and hey presto it usually is! Feel sorry for the punters but most travellers never do their homrwork on where they are staying or how they get there.

[daz211]

I know things have started off a bit of a mess but really this is out of the control of the airline (late delivery of aircraft) however the airline have had to make changes the timetable that has impacted some passengers but when you think of the bigger picture it was very ambitious to set up 3 new bases and move into the longhaul market the problems have been overcome now and the new schedule from Birmingham is covered with an aircraft we must also remember that the full schedule from both Stansted and Paris was not affected what so ever by the late delivery of aircraft so all is back on track for Birmingham all be it restructured and although it inconvenient for the affected passengers the airline is back on track for the new full schedule for all airports.

[SWBKCB]

I know things have started off a bit of a mess but really this is out of the control of the airline (late delivery of aircraft)

Has this been confirmed as the reason?

[Trav a la]

If it has been confirmed, why is the supplier of said late aircraft not covering the already sold flights with a substitute aircraft supplied as a 'stop gap' by them? Surely this would be part of any contract to cover late deliveries.

Something seems to be not adding up here.

[daz211]

Not confirmed but from my experience in this mad world of aviation this is the only reason I can see the new timetable for Birmingham as I see it is taking one aircraft out of the timetable.

[Navpi]

The problem is that this is reflecting on Birmingham itself through no fault of there own.

If they reroute pax to Stansted 3 days a week it looks as Birmingham has failed rather than the airline and it's very tight delivery schedule!

[AirportPlanner1]

No I wouldn’t worry the problem seems to be a delay in the longhaul aircraft only so should not affect PMI flights

But surely those same long haul aircraft are also operating the Spanish flights?

[USERNAME_]

No they're shipping over some 738's from Scandinavia for that

[daz211]

Correct all short haul route from STN and BHX are operated with B738 not the aircraft assigned to long haul routes.

[Skipness One Echo]

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Primera-Air-Scandinavia
Danish registered
2 x B737-800

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Primera-Air-Nordic
Latvian registered
5 x B737-800
2 x B737-700

Is one less than the below but ballpark accurate against the below:
https://primeraair.co.uk/about-us/fleet/
Long haul
8 A321 NEO - not delivered yet

So this a company more than doubling the size of it's fleet in a matter of months with a brand new type from a different manufacturer, intending to go ETOPs on said brand new type with no in-house experience with ETOPs? Also, with no economies of scale against the existing fleet like say, Westjet. This won't be easy by any measure....It really reminds me flyglobespan.

Anyone know on what register are the A321NEOs going on?

[USERNAME_]

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Primera-Air-Scandinavia
Danish registered
2 x B737-800

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Primera-Air-Nordic
Latvian registered
5 x B737-800
2 x B737-700

Is one less than the below but ballpark accurate against the below:
https://primeraair.co.uk/about-us/fleet/
Long haul
8 A321 NEO - not delivered yet

So this a company more than doubling the size of it's fleet in a matter of months with a brand new type from a different manufacturer, intending to go ETOPs on said brand new type with no in-house experience with ETOPs? Also, with no economies of scale against the existing fleet like say, Westjet. This won't be easy by any measure....It really reminds me flyglobespan.

Anyone know on what register are the A321NEOs going on?


According to one of the delivery schedules I read, 2 are registered TF- and the remaining 6 registered OY-

[Ringwayman]

It's been confirmed as poor sales for the cancellation of Boston and reduced frequency to New York.

[daz211]

It's been confirmed as poor sales for the cancellation of Boston and reduced frequency to New York.

Please can you give your source and or link.

[BDS10]

It's been confirmed as poor sales for the cancellation of Boston and reduced frequency to New York.

Nothing to do with lack of aircraft??

[Navpi]

Primera Air are all over the Birmingham Mail.
Lack of sales!

I'm not sure Stansted is much better if they are shipping pax down to STN.

[daz211]

It's been confirmed as poor sales for the cancellation of Boston and reduced frequency to New York.

I find it hard to believe, launch date for Boston would have been 22 June that’s almost 5 month off.
I would love to hear where you seen the reason you are giving

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

I don't believe this, sounds like an excuse to me.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/business/boston-new-york-flights-birmingham-14215588.amp

[gilesdavies]

Primera seem to be adjusting their ops for Birmingham...

Nothing too major, I’d just call it adjusting to market demand, but still disappointing for the airport.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...ngham-14215588

[daz211]

So if true what is happening to the spare longhaul Aircraft ?

I still find pulling a route due lack of take up with still almost 5 months to go is a bit unbelievable to me. I’m sticking to delay in aircraft delivery it makes more sense.

[SWBKCB]

Birmingham Post describes them as a Latvian airline. Is Birmingham the biggest base for flights?

It added: "Primera Air has reviewed its flight schedule from the Birmingham due to changing passenger flow trends. While we see very strong passenger numbers for flights to Toronto and New York, unfortunately the Boston route shows the weakest results. We have to keep a strong focus only on those destinations delivering the best commercial results. While Boston is one of the best performers from London and Paris, in Birmingham the demand is hitting high for the New York and Toronto routes. We are keeping those flights from Birmingham that are most demanded by the market as well as adding new ones. Furthermore, Birmingham Airport is by far our biggest new base for 2018 regarding the number of flights. This decision doesn't change our plans to improve the flight network out of Birmingham where we see strong potential growth in transatlantic and holiday destination flights."

[gnarlberg]

So this a company more than doubling the size of it's fleet in a matter of months with a brand new type from a different manufacturer, intending to go ETOPs on said brand new type with no in-house experience with ETOPs?

They have in-house experience. The new Primera Fleet Chief of Airbus also launched the Etops and 330 at WOW air ... so there is qualified staff.

[daz211]

Skipness
You make comments on here talking like premier air is some kind of start up airline put together by 3 teenagers in a shed with big ambitions.
I’m sure they are not just sticking pins in a map and making up dates that they might hope they will be ready for and I’m sure they have more idea than you do on how to run an airline and move onto new ventures.

[SWBKCB]

Must admit that I'd been thinking along similar lines to Skipness. Always thought that when making significant changes you keep the number of variables as low as possible.

How many other airlines are operating the A.321NEO under ETOPS?

ps S1E didn't even mention that the ops would be from multiple new bases!

[southside bobby]

Airbus would certainly have more than a little vested interest in ops of this type & it must be doubtful they would leave a potentially huge market segment for Airbus with a lone pioneering airline without "support" of some kind...same sentiment from lessors too perhaps.

[crewmeal]

It's disappointing that the carrier couldn't at least give Boston a season's trial. Read elsewhere it seems many prospective pax had already booked the route only to find the rug pulled. It's a bad management decision that could affect the trust and confidence for the future. Judging by the fare structure there isn't much difference with Aer Lingus via DUB.

[rog747]

indeed
fares going via DUB with EI sees hardly no different but EI gives you free luggage, a hot meal and free seat selection plus you can clear US imm & customs at DUB too

my pals just booked with Primera BHX-EWR then got canx -- and now booked on EI to JFK via DUB and will earn a shed load of avios for same price and walk off the plane at JFK PDQ as a local

[Navpi]

Newark feels like a season trial if it's switched from daily to 4 a week after a fortnight.

[daz211]

So if I’m wrong on my theory, which I don’t think I am, regarding late delivery of aircraft that would mean 1x longhaul Aircraft with no allocation in the current timetable, it doesn’t make financial sense for this aircraft to sit as a standby aircraft just in case so are we to see a new route from Stansted or Paris bearing in mind not much time left to launch a new route if you want it full.

[Plane.Silly]

If Primera were really serious about making the BHX flights work, couldn't they have just leased an a/c until their plane was ready? Even if it's a few months and causes a bit of confusion with the seat mapping, they're at least building a customer base, which will prove the be much more beneficial in the long run.

[ATNotts]

And how much would that cost?

Better to pull the service earlier, when fewer passengers are effected, rather than do what some other carriers do and kill services 2 weeks before departure date.

If Primera are to make a success of the new T/A venture then they aren't going to be splashing the cash unnecessarily, nor persevere with a route that looked them (and only they have the figures) as though it may not be an overnight success.

Low cost operators don't have the luxury of 2 years to develop a route, which is why you see so many routes come and go after a season, or sometimes even less.

[chaps1954]

If the production was late is the manufacturer not responsible and therefore compensation due

[USERNAME_]

It appears the first A321 for Primera (MSN: 8145) is still in pieces at XFW. I'd imagine at this point that the STN operation may start with a leased a/c???

[Skipness One Echo]

Are they proposing to use the A321NEO LR version? The one that’s just flown for the first time?

First A321LR successfully completes maiden flight (http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/01/first-a321lr-successfully-completes-maiden-flight.html)

[daz211]

They even had a link to the event on Facebook and or twitter saying they are looking forward to receiving them but I don’t see how they are going to get 6 In time for launch

This is wat I can find on placed orders
8x A321neo delivery 2018
2x A321neoLR launch customer delivery 2018
10x B739max delivery 2019.

[Skipness One Echo]

Why would such a small company buy both types? They’re both new to market aircraft.

[daz211]

Why would such a small company buy both types? They’re both new to market aircraft.

They must be starting with the A321neo not LR as reports from today’s LR first flight states they will come into service last quarter on 2018.

[daz211]

NEW ROUTE from Stansted.

We are happy to announce direct flights from London to Washington, D.C., starting August 2018. Discover the monumental capital of the US. Book your flight now.

[daz211]

Also note that Toronto will increase to 5x weekly from 23 August
Palma added Saturday only so far.

[daz211]

We’ve already seen a very positive response from passengers to Primera’s previous announcement of new services to New York, Boston and Toronto, and the addition of Washington will provide even more choice and connectivity to the east coast of the USA.

“We have made clear our ambition is to provide more services to the USA, and add routes to China and India, so this is another step towards that goal. We look forward to the launch of these exciting new services in the coming months.”

[Skipness One Echo]

I will pleasantly surprised if they're still operating into 2019 given they've bought the by now famous airliners.net Magic Route Planning Dartboard of Strategy.
They're going to need (more than) a fair amount of capital to get them into next summer because 2018 is all about costs and market share, and from what I can see, yields will be somewhat challenging.....
Launching a niche route BHX-BOS then almost immediately dropping it in favour of another niche route STN-IAD doesn't inspire confidence, certainly not in potential investors (!) I will happily and freely apologise and eat my words if this all works, I was d eventually delighted to be wrong about both FR and EZY but I would have huge concerns around booking with these guys.
“We have made clear our ambition is to provide more services to the USA, and add routes to China and India, so this is another step towards that goal. We look forward to the launch of these exciting new services in the coming months.”
On the B737MAX or A321? Or another type? Compare Ryanair, easyjet, Southwest, one manufacturer, one type, some sub types with flyglobespan, Monarch, Norwegian or Primera's plan.

[daz211]

I will pleasantly surprised if they're still operating into 2019 given they've bought the by now famous airliners.net Magic Route Planning Dartboard of Strategy.
They're going to need (more than) a fair amount of capital to get them into next summer because 2018 is all about costs and market share, and from what I can see, yields will be somewhat challenging.....
Launching a niche route BHX-BOS then almost immediately dropping it in favour of another niche route STN-IAD doesn't inspire confidence, certainly not in potential investors (!) I will happily and freely apologise and eat my words if this all works, I was d eventually delighted to be wrong about both FR and EZY but I would have huge concerns around booking with these guys.

I’m kind of with you on this but kind of not at the same time.
I’m sure they have a plan and must know what they are doing however if it was me making the decisions I would have put all my eggs in one basket which is Stansted I would not have chosen Birmingham or Paris and concentrated everything into Stansted I would have started with China and India as I wouldn’t be going up against Norwegian I hope they do well and lead the way into longhaul at Stansted I’m sure the short haul flights are going to be used as a massive advertising platform for longhaul and with the B739max aircraft due next year I’m sure we will see lots more interesting routes announced over the next few months I wish them all the best and hope the problems at Birmingham don’t affect booking and confidence to much.

[SWBKCB]

I would have started with China and India

Traffic rights?

[daz211]

Traffic rights?

They clearly have ambitions for China and India.
This is from their press release today.

We’ve already seen a very positive response from passengers to Primera’s previous announcement of new services to New York, Boston and Toronto, and the addition of Washington will provide even more choice and connectivity to the east coast of the USA.

“We have made clear our ambition is to provide more services to the USA, and add routes to China and India, so this is another step towards that goal. We look forward to the launch of these exciting new services in the coming months.”

[chaps1954]

On an A321 hope not

[AirportPlanner1]

Actually Washington isn't a bad route choice at all, they're not up against Norwegian. Just Wow which isn't non-stop and BA/UA who tend to charge a lot.

To serve India and China they would need bigger aircraft, and I assume a British registration. Not inconceivable. Unless traffic rights are an issue, I think India has great potential.

There are a couple of places in Africa that would be achieveable in an A321. Accra for example is one I'm surprised no one has looked at.

[ATNotts]

Accra for example is one I'm surprised no one has looked at.

Why? A small, albeit reasonably stable, country in West Africa, with little or no reason for affluent tourists to visit for their annual holiday, or city break.

Sounds like prime example of a destination plucked from that "magic route planning dartboard" to me!

[daz211]

What about the 20x B737-900Max-ER due 2019 what kind of range do they have ? Better or worse than the A321neo and A321LR.

Looking to the future I think Philadelphia and Montreal could be next.

[AirportPlanner1]

Why? A small, albeit reasonably stable, country in West Africa, with little or no reason for affluent tourists to visit for their annual holiday, or city break.

Sounds like prime example of a destination plucked from that "magic route planning dartboard" to me!

Actually there is a good amount of VFR traffic who would be happy to downgrade from BA to save a few £s. It's not all about tourists. If that were the case, why would anyone bother running flights from the UK to Sibiu or Lublin?

[southside bobby]

The reference to China & India today is valid BUT is from STN`s CEO for the airport`s own target reach in the push for further markets.

[compton3bravo]

Could not agree more Skipness regarding 2019. Decided not to operate from Birmingham but let us try Washington from Stansted, oh dear! Hope I am proved wrong though.

[southside bobby]

I would not agree with a previous post describing STN-IAD as "niche".

[pamann]

Agreed in that I wouldn’t describe many (if any) ‘LONDON - MAJOR INTERNATIONAL CITY’ routes as ‘niche’.

[southside bobby]

Totally correct....

Detractors are in a safety time loop regarding the STN market as just local.In the near future when "game-changer" Airbus arrive to market STN will be rightly & readily perceived just as the Capital on Trans Atlantics ,especially to a younger pax profile with access to travel tech not imagined a few years ago,with no dogma & old attitudes involved.

It is as suggested...none of the Primera routes could be classified "niche".

It will be interesting to see views eventually from the same posters concerning other markets when the A321LR goes into service with amongst others BAW & EIN to start.

[daz211]

Will be interesting to see what JetBlue announce when they get their A321LR

I’m sure primera know what they are doing I’m unsure as to why the aircraft orders are so mixed and wonder if it was the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet or Jet2 providing the new transatlantic routes people would be less pessimistic.

But I have got more confidence in primera today after the announcement of Washington they must be happy with how things are going.

[chaps1954]

Or not ! perhaps they are grabbing at straws as the routes the A321 can do are limited
as is the market. Most people now expect flights of over 6hrs to be widebody, most of the offerings both North and south of Primeras plans are all widebody with rumours still abounding that the MAN-EWR will be B767 for at least some of the summer and as United have just purchased some more 2nd hand B767 from Hawaiian who knows

[AirportPlanner1]

I don't think they are grabbing at straws at all, if they were grabbing at straws they would announce Buffalo or Bangor simply because they are in reach. If cash was an issue at present they'd have added more flights to NYC citing "phenomenol demand"

[Skipness One Echo]

Detractors are in a safety time loop regarding the STN market as just local.In the near future when "game-changer" Airbus arrive to market STN will be rightly & readily perceived just as the Capital on Trans Atlantics ,especially to a younger pax profile with access to travel tech not imagined a few years ago,with no dogma & old attitudes involved.
Let's review this in 18 months. Young and price sensitive is exactly the market that will ensure failure IMHO. I will unreservedly apologise if they're making a success of this business model and have a decent summer 2019 with cash reserves for getting into 2010. We're in a repeat of the Stansted threads American flying STN-JFK as a hyperbolic game changer for Stansted, how many thousands of words were typed and hats eaten after that episode.

[southside bobby]

As I stated on the STN thread regarding Primera & PMI for instance it appears to illustrate with just one tactical service per week to start they are v measured & calculating in the regard & use of markets.After all they are Scandi..cool/clear thinkers.

Regarding the order mix...it may be horses for courses to start or perhaps even playing manufacturers & or lessors..who knows exactly at present (they may even be playing the airports).

The A321LR was airborne on it`s maiden flight yesterday & is already being feted by the world press as an absolute game changer for long haul.

It will not be available to service until late this year & perhaps with Primera already having crunched a lot of numbers for it,decided to launch & operate with the 321NEO this year to block potential competitors.

I would view the B737MAX9 for the European market & mid haul which they have mentioned & the eventual 321LR as that game changer Transatlantic model.

For what it`s worth they have stated today Washington was always planned which makes sense as it is on the Eastern Seaboard still & probably is not a dart board target as some claim.

JBU have gone v quiet,the last I heard NAX were going to talk to them to offer interlining but that went quiet too.

[southside bobby]

Since when has a business plan expected to always generate cash reserves in a few months?..in any line of business?...you are totally in the wrong game if you can name one surely.

Oh dear not long before AA was mentioned too...as I stated dogma & old attitudes...yes they still exist.

Fail or no new approaches/enterprises are welcome & eventually help to change pre held concepts in this or any industry.

[southside bobby]

Chaps1954..
Read up on the LR variant...only airborne tho yesterday.

We are experienced so obviously with aircraft ad nauseum that we want to think every potential pax has the same checklist in their head as ourselves.

Airbus & Boeing & the engine manufacturers are changing the thinking.

Try asking young people what is a wide body or single or double aisle? they do not even understand the question.

I remember the first Trans Atlantic twins arriving at LHR & in amazement really after growing up with four jets.

Now the market is very largely twin engine.

Times will change again for many...Nice plug for MAN but that highlights the case effectively as STN cannot by right expect a traditional operator with wide body service because it suits their own business model together with the prox of LHR/LGW but new concepts will provide STN & many others eventually with a 21st Century service.

[gnarlberg]

different way of thinking

Merging&Aquisition

What about if the long future plan is to build up an AOC and operate this steadily to be bought by somebody else later?
EasyJet could be interested in longhaul, Ryanair could need them, JetBlue could need them, SAS Ireland could have an interest, Eurowings could be interested or maybe Wizz.
Nobody knows, but everything is possible.

[southside bobby]

Wouldn`t or couldn't seek to deny that way of thinking at all.

The idea makes sense in theory I believe.

Not sure regarding SAS Ireland if they could claim rights from the parent.Eurowings has I imagine the certification already & JetBlue perhaps problems with the FAA.

But I`m sure following that idea thru there would be others.

Potential disruptor might be Brexit perhaps.

[compton3bravo]

Sorry to be a bit pedantic Southside but Primera are Icelandic and not Scandinavian. I would humbly suggest you not call them that as they will get upset like our close neighbours who are from Finland (lovely people) but never call them Scandinavian!

[gnarlberg]

People from Finland are kind of Russians right?

[inOban]

Sorry to be a bit pedantic Southside but Primera are Icelandic and not Scandinavian. I would humbly suggest you not call them that as they will get upset like our close neighbours who are from Finland (lovely people) but never call them Scandinavian!
Surely you meant Latvian, not Icelandic?

[KyleRB]

Nope Icelandic owner operating on both Danish and Latvian AOCs. Airbus ops under the Danish one.

[inOban]

I thought the Icelanders considered themselves Scandinavian. They are by ancestry and language.

[southside bobby]

Nope pedantic is good compton3bravo & the generation of the further input.

Research states Scandinavia in local usage covers the 3 Kingdoms of Denmark,Norway & Sweden but in English usage it sometimes refers to the Scandinavian Peninsula which also includes Finland & Iceland.

However as compton was drawing attention to his LOCAL knowledge (neighbours) I will apologise for the generalisation from their country viewpoint & go with that.

Interesting...& hopefully "Nordic" could be good?.

[southside bobby]

First two A321NEO a/c for Primera becoming more of a reality...

MSN 8145 OY-PAA

MSN 8195 OY-PAB

[rog747]

People from Finland are kind of Russians right?

No!
there was the finnish grand duchy during the russian era in 1809 and then the soviets took over all of the northern baltic states in 1917 such as latvia lithuania and estonia but finland retained their independence as a republic plus the ruskis again tried after WW2

[USERNAME_]

southside bobby

Where did you get this from?

[gnarlberg]

https://a320archive.com/airline/Primera-Air

[southside bobby]

Thanks gnarlberg...

Just beat me to it & with an extra,as I could find/see details of 5 A321N`s but you have all 6.

[USERNAME_]

Doesn't state anywhere on that site about the regs "OY-PAA" and OY-PAB".

[KyleRB]

It has been confirmed that they are the first 2 NEOs online. PAA already appearing in training material etc.

[southside bobby]

Makes sense tho does it not?.

Meaningful personalised reggies for the fleet.

These marks are available in Denmark.

[USERNAME_]

First A321neo OY-PAA in Hamburg.

http://i67.tinypic.com/350mgra.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/oftvd0.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/ojphrk.jpg

[daz211]

Fantastic to see it, how long would it normally take to get to delivery standard ?

[toledoashley]

Interesting that it doesnt have ACF.

[whitelighter]

Are these A321LR airframes

[SWBKCB]

No - standard NEO's

[whitelighter]

Bearing in mind they are supposed to be starting TA in late April are the LRs going to be ready? I can't see it....

[USERNAME_]

They aren't using LR's at first.

[daz211]

All the A321’s are TA

[whitelighter]

Fair enough

Thought they needed LRs

[daz211]

Do we know what engines they will have hope not the problematic ones grounding
A320 neo’s

[gnarlberg]

CFM Leap 1A26

[sparkie320]

It seems long term resident at Norwich is slowly making her way back to Primera
after departing Norwich on the 12th for Manchester and believe a paint job

if you remember she arribed in Norwich back in April 2017 with skin issues,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/88573897@N03/albums/72157691426026194

[EIFFS]

Well at least they will have had plenty of time to learn from Norwegian’s foray into the US market.

Lesson number 1 is that without CPDLC sat comm you’ll be stuck at FL340 or less and even with it you’ll struggle to get high enough west bound to get above the jet stream peak winds due fuel load, 2. you are a slow aircraft at .78 or .79 so you won’t get optimum FL’s even if you could climb there. 3. fatigue induced crew sickness is a real problem to sort out 3500 miles away without local US based crews on hand. 4. going non ETOPS in 1 leg is close to impossible with a viable payload.

[daz211]

One thing that they don’t have that Norwegian has is no competition out of Stansted so if things get off to a good start all the people who live north of London who hate the M25 might just pop up to Stansted the number of people who drive past Stansted to get to LGW or LHR now have convenient option across the pond.

[rog747]

sad to say that STN and also LTN's foray into the transatlantic market with both legacy, loco - and specialist business class carriers ended up with zilch of them remaining or surviving

I dont know why it is but STN historically seems to be not that popular for TA's that try to make a go of it

maybe Primera has more luck - wish them all success but fasten your seatbelts it's gonna be a bumpy ride (bette davis)

[daz211]

Times have changed Stansted has grown so fast and this year year is going to be another record breaking year the time is right for longhaul from Stansted my only concern is it’s going to be attempted by a little known airline in the UK but let’s wait and see.

[southside bobby]

The trans atlantics will of course also benefit from inbound US marketing too & many will be arriving in "London" & not Stansted per se.

Primera have stated the inbound bookings to BHX led to the reductions there this year.

Evolution is the name of the game now with new variants of the A321 & B73M & even if the operators come & go the evolution & technology will be a basis for permanent change in some market segments.

Times have indeed changed for STN & must be at business critical mass,now at 26m
pax,next year 28m? & then well on the drive to 30m making it one of the major airports in Europe.

[daz211]

Just had a quick look at prices for Stansted to Washington on skyscanner, prices are on average £500 cheaper than any London Washington flights in August.

[planedrive]

Well that sounds sustainable.:rolleyes:

[Fadecwithnos]

Any of you guys starting the training next week?

[pelucoair]

Any info about assessment? Any info about roster and time to upgrade being offered?

[EIFFS]

Time to command upgrade will be the least of your worries ��

[daz211]

Time to command upgrade will be the least of your worries ��

Would you like to elaborate on you short statement please.

[pelucoair]

Time to command upgrade will be the least of your worries ��

If you have a lot of info please share with us

[daz211]

Time to command upgrade will be the least of your worries ��

EIFFS
You seem to have gone a bit mute anything to add to you comment of would you like to delete it.

[pelucoair]

Ok, I am thinking to go to Primera to join Airbus fleet, as you can imagine I want to know if someone will share some information with me, about certain conditions, how is people inside, etc, time for captaron upgrade, etc, roster,etc.

Of anyone (polite) don’t mind to share info, just share here.

Thank you very much!

[planedrive]

Nobody can answer your question as nobody knows - essentially the airline doesn't exist yet! Primera Air fly a handful of 737's on scandi to canary island and other holiday routes. Now they decide to get a brand new type, start a brand new type of flying on low cost long haul where no one has ever made money. If you choose to go there, then you are a braver soul than I. I wish them all the luck in the world but I'd be very surprised to see them around BHX or STN this time next summer.

[pelucoair]

Thank you very much for your answer, however....will it not being related with Primera (the one with 737s??)
I will see, but it seems to be a good proyect, I remember American Airlines doing this things with 757....it was not a low cost however things can change and ....if you don’t take the risk you will never know if you are going to get success!

Thank you very much for the answer if anyone is in my same situation just contact me.

[southside bobby]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

"if you don`t take the risk you will never know if you are going to get success!"........ perfect reasoning & positive too.

Can add nothing to your requests I`m afraid but to point out the negativity & dismissiveness from the previous poster may well be to do with his geography & locale,
sandwiched as he is at an airport between the two proposed Primera bases of BHX & STN...

[canberra97]

Nobody can answer your question as nobody knows - essentially the airline doesn't exist yet! Primera Air fly a handful of 737's on scandi to canary island and other holiday routes. Now they decide to get a brand new type, start a brand new type of flying on low cost long haul where no one has ever made money. If you choose to go there, then you are a braver soul than I. I wish them all the luck in the world but I'd be very surprised to see them around BHX or STN this time next summer.

To quote you ''essentially the airline doesn't exist yet''

PRIMERA started operations in 2003 as JetX under an Icelandic AOC

PRIMERA operate to 97 destinations of which 36 are scheduled.

PRIMERA have bases at 11 airports in Denmark, France, Finland, Iceland, Sweden, United Kingdom

PRIMERA employee approximately 300 people and made a 7.6 million Euro profit in 2017.

Not bad for an airline that ''essentially doesn't exist yet''.

[SWBKCB]

Now they decide to get a brand new type, start a brand new type of flying on low cost long haul where no one has ever made money.

Maybe - but the above is still a valid point. And doesn't even mention new countries and bases.

But as others have said, you've got to buy a ticket to win the lottery.

[EIFFS]

Daz211

Whilst I wish them well with this venture it does seem a high risk expansion, but yes you’ve got to be in it win it.

According to their website they have flown 403K passengers, it doesn’t make it clear if that was last year or since they started in 2003 by comparison Norwegian carried 2.3 million in Feb 2018 and 33 million in 2017

I very doubt Norwegian have made a dime yet out of max operations across the Atlantic, yes they were using brand new aircraft and engine combinations, new crews, new operating bases and a huge spend on publicity and the well document farce of US pilots licensing delays. This despite a establish presence in their respective markets, meanwhile we have an airline that out side of the world of Pprune is virtually unknown embarking on an operation that will have to work like clock work out of the box with new crews, new aircraft on ETOPS routes that like the max fly a lot slower than widebody aircraft and will be to heavy to get much above FL340 and they are starting further east than Norwegians Ireland and Scotland efforts, add more expensive airports and significant ground delays at the US end it could go horribly wrong.

On the plus side they are not starting in the winter when weather is bad and loads are low.

Next problem will be crewing them against the reported rosters, that will soon jade people and there are likely to be plenty of airbus jobs going forward, not least with Norwegian on A321neoLR of which they have 30 coming starting next year and it’s reported that a good number will be heading for London Gatwick.

Let’s see how things are in October, but brave and ballsy move ��

[planedrive]

To quote you ''essentially the airline doesn't exist yet''

PRIMERA started operations in 2003 as JetX under an Icelandic AOC

PRIMERA operate to 97 destinations of which 36 are scheduled.

PRIMERA have bases at 11 airports in Denmark, France, Finland, Iceland, Sweden, United Kingdom

PRIMERA employee approximately 300 people and made a 7.6 million Euro profit in 2017.

Not bad for an airline that ''essentially doesn't exist yet''.

And therein lies a big worry. An airline with just 9 aircraft (of a different type/manufacturer), and 300 employees, already having 8 bases (soon to be 11). Ever heard of spreading yourself too thin? This is a giant new project with new crew, operating procedures, countries, and aircraft. So yes Primera 'Long haul' essentially doesn't exist yet - hence why no one can show you rosters or give advice on time to command, commuting etc.

Like I said: I have no harsh feelings towards the airline and many of my ex colleagues have gone there after events of last year. I wish them all the best of successes.

[Hotel Tango]

However, if they did make 7.6 million profit last year then I guess they must be doing something right?

[maxpeck]

I wouldn't get too excited about Norwegian and the 321, much more problems to get around before 2019 and no sign of any acknowledgement from the management that they need to take action at all.

[Alteagod]

Worked with them in Dublin when they did all of Budget Holidays work post Futura. A wonderful airline with a smashing crew and cabin crew as well as a great ops team.Mind you they did operate a 737 700 that not exactly the most reliable airframe in the world but none the less very very happy memories of them

[INKJET]

I wouldn't get too excited about Norwegian and the 321, much more problems to get around before 2019 and no sign of any acknowledgement from the management that they need to take action at all.

It’s seems people have been saying this sort of thing every since Norwegian became a player.

It was the same when they started long haul, won’t work, can’t work, hasn’t worked before were the comments from some respected Ppruners and yet here we are a couple of years latter with an airline with currently 25 787’s and planned 32 by the year end, again the same with 738M won’t work people won’t fly long haul in 737, well it’s seems they will and do and Dublin to New York Stewart as it will soon be called starts double daily next month.

For sure it’s seems to have been a bumpy start and maybe Primera can avoid that if not they will need very deep pockets indeed.

When do they start operations?

[BHX5DME]

Now on their website from Dec 18

[maxpeck]

It’s seems people have been saying this sort of thing every since Norwegian became a player.

It was the same when they started long haul, won’t work, can’t work, hasn’t worked before were the comments from some respected Ppruners and yet here we are a couple of years latter with an airline with currently 25 787’s and planned 32 by the year end, again the same with 738M won’t work people won’t fly long haul in 737, well it’s seems they will and do and Dublin to New York Stewart as it will soon be called starts double daily next month.

For sure it’s seems to have been a bumpy start and maybe Primera can avoid that if not they will need very deep pockets indeed.

When do they start operations?

Very true, but like you, I also have some experience of the workings of the company/companies and personally it doesn't give me too much faith that they have the skills to turn things around. I'm not sure they even have acknowledged that something might not be right.

Personally, I don't think stating have many planes they have is much to shout about, it's not hard to borrow money and expand at all. The trick is being able to make money from it and keeping the costs under control.

[USERNAME_]

Looks very smart.
https://preview.ibb.co/m5O7L7/99_B2_E05_C_E451_48_CE_AEDC_03_F13_D4_F2557.jpg (https://ibb.co/ch7pYS)

[daz211]

Thanks for the fantastic photo she is looking very nice

[EIFFS]

Thanks for the fantastic photo she is looking very nice

Will look better with some engines :ok:

[daz211]

Manchester to Malaga has made its way onto Primera Air website

[daz211]

Also Stansted Tenerife and Las Palmas

[lplsprog]

LPL to Antalya has also appeared on the website but has now disappeared!

[southside bobby]

Prospective OY-PAA as per a photo dated 18/3/18 now has engines mounted..

[daz211]

Primera website went down this morning due to high demand for the £99 tickets

[whitelighter]

Primera appear to be leading at least 2 B757 with crew from a Florida based airline for Stansted.

[LAX_LHR]

B757’s from Florida sounds like National to me.

[european130]

Agree LAX LHR both National 757's are stood here in Orlando and have been doing nothing for at least the past week....

[Navpi]

Hotchpotch !

[rog747]

the 757's will do the TA's? or the Palma's etc

[Skipness One Echo]

Primera website went down this morning due to high demand for the £99 tickets
Well below cost, if they sell too many, they’re screwed. Worth looking at the mess DY are in and learning from it IMHO.

[daz211]

Well below cost, if they sell too many, they’re screwed. Worth looking at the mess DY are in and learning from it IMHO.

They only had 99 seats at £99 but got lots more internet traffic than the 99 seats available.

[SWBKCB]

Well below cost, if they sell too many, they’re screwed. Worth looking at the mess DY are in and learning from it IMHO.

...and if they sell the right amount, gets their name known and punters through the door. Worth looking at how well FR have done and learning from it. :ok:

[planedrive]

Get their name "known", and then fly them on clapped out 757's from across the pond - all decked out in another carriers livery. All at well below cost and with a website that can't handle a decent amount of traffic. Seems like things are going well so far :ugh::ugh:

Does anyone know when they will actually take delivery of their first A321 and when they will operate their own first flight?

[Centre cities]

Get their name "known", and then fly them on clapped out 757's from across the pond - all decked out in another carriers livery. All at well below cost and with a website that can't handle a decent amount of traffic. Seems like things are going well so far :ugh::ugh:

Does anyone know when they will actually take delivery of their first A321 and when they will operate their own first flight?

If the 757 are for TA and cover late deliveries would this cost not be covered by Airbus. Of course it may be nothing to do with that.

Centre cities

[rog747]

some £99 TA seats still there - 10kgs hand baggage only, no grub and no seat res.

the extras if you want to pay for them are exorbitant

[daz211]

If the 757 are for TA and cover late deliveries would this cost not be covered by Airbus. Of course it may be nothing to do with that.

Centre cities

If Airbus were covering the cost, as an airline waiting on brand new aircraft,I would not be happy being offered old B757s as a alternative option until my order turned up.

[daz211]

Primera appear to be leading at least 2 B757 with crew from a Florida based airline for Stansted.

Do you have more info and how credible this info is ?
Are the 757s for Stansted only ?

Can anyone advise when the first owned airbus will arrive and at what base it will be used ?

And are the 757s to cover longhaul or the holiday islands ?
Where are all the 737s coming from ?

So many questions :rolleyes:

[USERNAME_]

Do you have more info and how credible this info is ?
Are the 757s for Stansted only ?

Can anyone advise when the first owned airbus will arrive and at what base it will be used ?

And are the 757s to cover longhaul or the holiday islands ?
Where are all the 737s coming from ?

So many questions :rolleyes:

Employees have been told aircraft are being leased however no mention of who from. The leased aircraft are for Stansted long haul flights only.
The first A321 arrives next month but will only fly short haul, 737's are coming from the Primera Air Scandinavia/Nordic current fleet, as well as a leased A320 from DAT.

[whitelighter]

Do you have more info and how credible this info is ?
Are the 757s for Stansted only ?

Can anyone advise when the first owned airbus will arrive and at what base it will be used ?

And are the 757s to cover longhaul or the holiday islands ?
Where are all the 737s coming from ?

So many questions :rolleyes:

It is very credible - info comes from the airline (B757 lessor) itself.
I don't know about the other U.K. departure points Primera hence my original post being 'at least two'.
Sorry I can't be more specific - any further info will give away where and who I work for and I don't really want that on here.

[daz211]

Thanks for the info from the last two poster much appreciated

[southside bobby]

Prospective OY-PAA took to the air this afternoon on it`s first test flight.

[daz211]

Prospective OY-PAA took to the air this afternoon on it`s first test flight.

Taken from twitter ( @airlineroute ).

Primera Air to lease Boeing 757 for London Stansted – Newark 19APR18 – 04AUG18 and London Stansted – Boston 18MAY18 – 28MAY18.

[Severn]

From ch-aviation:

Primera Air Scandinavia has confirmed it will add additional wet-leased aircraft to its summer London Stansted-based fleet amid delays in deliveries of its first A321neo.

Airline chief executive Hrafn "Krummi" Thorgeirsson told ch-aviation in a statement that the Scandinavian carrier would wet-lease a B767-300(ER) from euroAtlantic Airways for transatlantic flights between May 19 and mid-August. The widebody will supplement what is now known to be one B757-200 which will be wet-leased from National Airlines for use on Primera Air's London Stansted-Newark (and occasionally Boston) flights between April 19 to August 4.

Primera Air was to have taken delivery of its first A321neo this month. Thorgeirsson did not proffer any revised dates for the arrival of the type, but expects three A321neo to operate alongside the wet-lease equipment this summer.

[southside bobby]

First A321neo handed over to Primera in a ceremony at Hamburg today.

[USERNAME_]

Crew rosters are out for May, and it seems we will be operating our own metal over the Atlantic from the end of may from both BHX and STN :cool:

[southside bobby]

News has been fluid in recent weeks re the equipment allotted for North Atlantic ops but sounding very promising...

Good to note the STN based PRI B738 operating over AGP & ALC daily since last Monday too.

[STN406]

Morning,

N176CA is currently on-route to Stansted.
Due to arrive 10:30a. It is due to be parking on stand Delta 73.
Any more information I get on this I will pass it on.

[southside bobby]

Thanks for info...

Going onto remotes then & ready for the first Primera Air transatlantic service tomorrow 19.4.18 with their first destination EWR.

Further to A321neo `PAA....flew Hamburg XFW to CPH yesterday after handover on Monday.

Plans indicate it & crews to be worked up deployed temporarily on daily STN to AGP from the end of this month.

Deployment of the neo initially due first week of May on transatlantic ops from STN.

[edistevie]

[QUOTE=STN406;10122274]Morning,

N176CA is currently on-route to Stansted.
Due to arrive 10:30a. It is due to be parking on stand Delta 73.
Any more information I get on this I will

Flight radar showing its heading to Prestwick.

[Skipness One Echo]

Deployment of the neo initially due first week of May on transatlantic ops from STN.
Do they have ETOPs approval straight off the bat?

[southside bobby]

Very valid question certainly, but I at least do not have the info or the answer I`m afraid.

[southside bobby]

Re...the National B757..

Is now tracking well south of the PIK area...

Some tracker info displays PIK & other parts of it as STN as destination.

It may have filed originally for PIK with an enroute fuel how goes it with then technical /commercial diversion to the intended of STN.

I think you can rest assured it is arriving here as STN406 has already posted the stand info allocated it prior to service entry.

[STN406]

I managed to get some figures for today’s flights.

AGP: 18 out 169 In
ALC: 68 out

Not to bad for the early stages of the flights. I spoke to one of Swissport staff members handling the AGP departure and she said most flights have substantial loads. Hoping the transatlantic ones will too.

[daz211]

I managed to get some figures for today’s flights.

ALC: 18 out 169 In
AGP: 68 out

Not to bad for the early stages of the flights. I spoke to one of Swissport staff members handling the AGP departure and she said most flights have substantial loads. Hoping the transatlantic ones will too.

Thanks for the info.
Better than I was expecting, it would be interesting to know if there is any on board advertising for long haul for example transatlantic destinations on over heads I would at the very least expect inflight magazines full of advertising them.

Fingers crossed for longhaul, anyone got any idea on what state the cabin is in on the 757-200 from National I take it no IFE.

[AirportPlanner1]

Take a look at Skyscanner at fares going this weekend, ie just 3 or 4 days time. You have a vast array of destinations at your disposal for under £100 return, most are under £70 and some such as Ibiza are as low as £35. This isn’t exclusive to Primera or indeed to STN, it’s across the board.

They will be burning cash taking less than 20 to Malaga midweek, that has to be a worry. Perhaps they would be wiser sticking to the long haul routes.

[pabely]

I think a bigger worry would be the NEO itself, the engines are far from liable with other operators and unlike those, they do not have fullback medal to do the jump of the pond in May.

[compton3bravo]

The few weeks between Easter and the start of the summer schedule - first week in May - have always been rather quiet. I think they call them shoulder weeks in the travel trade with the end of the ski season and before the start of the proper summer schedule but I have said before I have real worries about Primera out of the UK already having to sub in aircraft. I fear the worst.

[southside bobby]

c3b...

Neither yourself or I know the "financial machinations" between Airbus/Engine manufacturer/Lessor & the Airline regarding the costings of the sub(s).

The sub(s) have been conducted in a very orderly fashion (having been predicted many weeks ago).

Posters can be positive or not as they regard facts as they see them.

It will be obvious to which camps we each belong.

[southside bobby]

pabely...

Two different powerplant manufacturers involved in the Airbus/neo programme.

Most of the issues concerning neo engines appear to surround the P&W powered fleets.

Primera Air neo`s are powered by the CFM LEAP-1A engine.

CFM have mainly suffered production delays with deliveries but not I think with the issues you are representing.

[daz211]

Without wanting to sound like a spotter.
Is there anyone on site or going to be on site at Stansted, that is able to get a pic of the National 752 and post on here, I had planned to be at Stansted today and tomorrow but unfortunately Or fortunately I have been sent to Canada.

[southside bobby]

AirportPlanner1...

OK... but if transcribed correctly where did 169 come from on the ALC inbound?...

[rog747]

The few weeks between Easter and the start of the summer schedule - first week in May - have always been rather quiet. I think they call them shoulder weeks in the travel trade with the end of the ski season and before the start of the proper summer schedule but I have said before I have real worries about Primera out of the UK already having to sub in aircraft. I fear the worst.

correct but the bargains are always to be had before the season kicks in - pretty normal to see £49 returns to all over the place on the first weeks of flights - they make their dosh in season - been like that for 30 odd years

[southside bobby]

daz211...

Not sure if it helps but I have seen a pic of the National B752 (great livery) but no Primera titles arriving at STN yesterday on the Stansted Aviation Google Group forum...

Not sure I can put addresses here but a normal search will find access to the forum.

You have to become a member but they are v friendly & is "spotter" orientated tho.

[daz211]

daz211...

Not sure if it helps but I have seen a pic of the National B752 (great livery) but no Primera titles arriving at STN yesterday on the Stansted Aviation Google Group forum...

Not sure I can put addresses here but a normal search will find access to the forum.

You have to become a member but they are v friendly & is "spotter" orientated tho.

Thanks for the info I tried google but no luck when you have a minute could you copy the link in private message no rush just when you can if you don’t mind
Thanks again.

[AirportPlanner1]

AirportPlanner1...

OK... but if transcribed correctly where did 169 come from on the ALC inbound?...

Without asking them I’m not sure, but if those 169 are paying £50 average I’d still question profitability

[AirportPlanner1]

correct but the bargains are always to be had before the season kicks in - pretty normal to see £49 returns to all over the place on the first weeks of flights - they make their dosh in season - been like that for 30 odd years

This is true but last summer yields were weak even in school holidays, and even with the loss of Monarch I’m not seeing much evidence this year is any different.

[pabely]

pabely...

Two different powerplant manufacturers involved in the Airbus/neo programme.

Most of the issues concerning neo engines appear to surround the P&W powered fleets.

Primera Air neo`s are powered by the CFM LEAP-1A engine.

CFM have mainly suffered production delays with deliveries but not I think with the issues you are representing.

SSB Try getting hold of a spare LEAP engines, then you will find the issue. Speak to engineers currently working with them!

[southside bobby]

Hope not then pabely...

On a more positive note the inaugural Primera Air service to EWR was airborne from STN a little while ago...albeit "roller" powered!!...

[Alteagod]

Well done and best of luck to them all.

[daz211]

Any idea on the outbound loads ?

[daz211]

Has anyone got information on Airbus delivery dates for both Stansted and Birmingham.

[OltonPete]

Has anyone got information on Airbus delivery dates for both Stansted and Birmingham.

Daz -no rumours as far as I know at BHX but the booking engine for 18th May still shows the A321 NEO on BHX-EWR and all later flights are operating. The only recent change is that the A321 is showing in certain booking sites on the first BHX-AGP on 14 May and 15th with the 16th, 17th and 19th cancelled and the 738 now arriving Friday 18th.

However the Primera seat-map shows the 738 on BHX-AGP 14 May.

There are a couple of good sites showing the Airbus production lists and the second A321 NEO has nothing against it but only 4 later MSN's have been delivered (2 x Air India, 1 x Frontier and 1 x Pegasus - all 320 NEO's) but unfortunately there are quite a few earlier builds that haven't been delivered. The third NEO has notes against it "spotted at XFW without engines installed 30 March!

Some of these Google sheets claim to be updated every 5 minutes.

A log on another site shows the second one was noted at Finkenwerder on 23 April but it did not say whether engines were installed.

170 inbound from Newark to Stansted on the NEO apparently this morning.

Pete

[daz211]

Thank for the info Pete, I see CDG are launching with a B767, it’s hard to keep track on what going on fleet wise with primera but with BOS and YYZ launch date fast approaching and not forgetting BHX I guess we have some interesting times ahead.
I hope things run smoothly from hear on in.

[HH6702]

Monday last week i was at XFW on a tour and both PAB and PAC had engines and were being finished off so shouldnt be too long
once it has First flight if all ok be around a week 10 days

[daz211]

Monday last week i was at XFW on a tour and both PAB and PAC had engines and were being finished off so shouldnt be too long
once it has First flight if all ok be around a week 10 days

thats brilliant news hopefully the roll out is smooth.

[478152]

Flight I had booked for SWMBO from PMI to BHX on 15th has been cancelled. Give Primera their due, good service to re book with other airlines or refund.

[daz211]

Primera are on BBC Essex tonight at 1800 with Alex Macheras and primera CEO, discussing the A321 and transatlantic services from Stansted.

[toledoashley]

Primera are on BBC Essex tonight at 1800 with Alex Macheras and primera CEO, discussing the A321 and transatlantic services from Stansted.

Oh dearest Alex, someone who annoys me more than Simon Calder...

[rog747]

Alex Macheras ''aviation expert'' :ok::sad::eek: OK well they have children now doing Reg Turnbull's job

[rog747]

Oh dearest Alex, someone who annoys me more than Simon Calder...

indeed - at least SC has earned his blue peter badge and walked the walk - Alex M is a spotty rich Essex kid who sits in his bedroom all night playing flight sim and vlogging - he's the most tedious millennial snowflake of the highest order BUT he gets the best gig tickets in town LOL how?!!!

[Skipness One Echo]

He literally trades on being an "aviation analyst" which if that's not fraudulent I don't know what is. Mummy's money opens doors it seems.
In all seriousness, with Paul Mason at C4 going all revolutionary leather jacket, the level of "expertise" available to the media is very low, it's appalling that someone as unskilled as Macheras is their go-to guy.
Is he on pprune I wonder? anyone know?

[daz211]

He literally trades on being an "aviation analyst" which if that's not fraudulent I don't know what is. Mummy's money opens doors it seems.
In all seriousness, with Paul Mason at C4 going all revolutionary leather jacket, the level of "expertise" available to the media is very low, it's appalling that someone as unskilled as Macheras is their go-to guy.
Is he on pprune I wonder? anyone know?

i was wondering the same I can’t see how he is not on here but I’m just courageous to if the National 752 and cancellations and long delays will be mentioned as far as I’m aware the 752 National is the launch aircraft for BOS.

[FRatSTN]

as far as I’m aware the 752 National is the launch aircraft for BOS

No, there's been some further changes...

The A321neo now doing STN-EWR daily will reduce to 3x weekly for a brief period to allow for the 4x weekly BOS launch on 18th May. The second A321neo arrives on 30th May from which it will take on BOS and the YYZ launch. The first aircraft will then go back to doing EWR daily. A third A321neo is still set for the IAD launch on 22nd August from which time YYZ will increase to 5x weekly.

The National 752 it seems is now being based in BHX until the 29th July. It will operate EWR now only 6x weekly until 22nd June, from which time it'll reduce to 3x weekly to allow for the 3x weekly YYZ launch. EWR will then go up to 4x weekly once the A321neo takes over.

To confirm, the National 752 will only be utilised 6x a week, at BHX, from 18th May to 29th July. STN long-haul should now be fully serviced by the A321neo.

[daz211]

Well what a load of rubbish that radio article was.
The presenter asking if people will be willing to travel in small seat, when actually there is just as much if not more room than on other traditional airlines, also Alex saying security at Stansted need to employ more international speaking security agents, and Stansted needs better transport links to London, forgive me if I’m wrong but Stansted has trains every 15 mins to London and has the counties 2nd largest coach station anyway, nothing mentioned about the National 752 launching the BOS route just a slight mention of the delivery in delivery of aircraft from Airbus but the way the CEO was talking it has been resolved but I’m not so sure as the National is down to operate STN-BOS.
but at least the CEO and Alex seems to think the routes will last at Stansted and the bookings are very healthy.

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=toledoashley;10142269]Oh dearest Alex, someone who annoys me more than Simon Calder...[/QUOTE

The old saying is 'empty vessels make the most noise'. Simon Calder is dragged out to make a statement about the bloody obvious, but don't interview him about anything that needs thought,or balance or even knowledge. Sad really.

[daz211]

No, there's been some further changes...

The A321neo now doing STN-EWR daily will reduce to 3x weekly for a brief period to allow for the 4x weekly BOS launch on 18th May. The second A321neo arrives on 30th May from which it will take on BOS and the YYZ launch. The first aircraft will then go back to doing EWR daily. A third A321neo is still set for the IAD launch on 22nd August from which time YYZ will increase to 5x weekly.

The National 752 it seems is now being based in BHX until the 29th July. It will operate EWR now only 6x weekly until 22nd June, from which time it'll reduce to 3x weekly to allow for the 3x weekly YYZ launch. EWR will then go up to 4x weekly once the A321neo takes over.

To confirm, the National 752 will only be utilised 6x a week, at BHX, from 18th May to 29th July. STN long-haul should now be fully serviced by the A321neo.

Thanks for the above info re the National 752 that info some how got past me. brilliant news for Stansted but not so good for Birmingham.

[nohold]

G-POWS B737 of Titan is doing the Stansted to Alicante return trip for Primera on May 11th.

[CCGE29]

The main problem with Primera appears to be communication (or lack of it)

There is currently a 3 week response time to emails and is virtually impossible to talk to anybody from Primera. Primera have since replied to a complaint on social media informing the customer that their customer support is overloaded though they are trying to expand on this.

Added to this the constant delays and frequent cancellations using leased in aircraft and this quickly becomes unsustainable. They must have deep pockets.

The Southern/Northern Rail of the skies..

[daz211]

To be fair, it seems that things have improved dramatically, well at least at Stansted.
Since the A321 took over on the Newark route from the old unreliable Nation B752 there has been no cancellations nor fuel diversions and the Europe short haul operation has ran pretty smoothly since day one.

I have heard a rumour “unconfirmed” that primera have decided to use Titan instead of National to launch long haul from Birmingham so hopefully things should start smoother at Birmingham and we shouldn’t see a repeat of the Stansted fiasco.

I know there has been a lot of people affected by the longhaul and shorthaul route rescheduling but I believe this is better than turning up on the day of travel to find you flight delayed 24hrs or cancelled altogether.

I would agree that the response time to complaints and urgent enquiries is unacceptable to the UK and US customers and to add to that I would strongly recommend someone at primera take a look at its social media team and maybe take note how airlines like Jet2 handling it’s facebook and Twitter pages.

Primera need to recognise that a strong social media team is just as important as a good sales team, not only for complaints and enquiries but photos, competition, news and route updates.

[nohold]

G-MISG B737-300 of Cello doing the Birmingham - Malaga - Birmingham for Primera today.

[daz211]

For the first time Primera have all three flights, STN, BHX and CDG en route to EWR and all pretty much on time.
PF21 / PF41 / PF51 will all land within 15 mins of each other at EWR.