Primera Air

[LGS6753]

nt639 -

Solid reasoning -

Multiple aircraft types
Too many small bases remote from each other (worse next year)
Over-rapid expansion
Lack of resilience causing sub-chartering or cancellations
No economies of scale vs. competitors
Lack of brand awareness

...would you like more?

[USERNAME_]

Does anybody know what the Primera fleet will be next summer?

x8 B738, x2 B737, x6 A321neo (if OY-PAB ever actually arrives, if not then x5), x2 A321neoLR (Maybe 3 if PAB's late delivery changes to an LR), and no more than x15 of the ordered 20 7M9's, however x20 will be in the fleet by November 2019.

[FRatSTN]

Multiple aircraft types
Too many small bases remote from each other (worse next year)
Over-rapid expansion
Lack of resilience causing sub-chartering or cancellations
No economies of scale vs. competitors
Lack of brand awareness

Whilst I don't wholly disagree I would hardly describe that as "solid reasoning" and sure you would beckon them slightly more if they had chosen LTN - (It's alright, I'm only saying).

They have undoubtedly had issues and I'm sure anyone from BHX would be first to agree, however, where they're different from previous ventures is the aircraft. It's a game-changer for sure, make no mistake about that.

I too find their expansion quite fast paced yet often where others have failed is to some extent little direction and strategy, but fundamentally a simple case of a lack of aircraft and crewing. Of course there has been major issues with both this year, arguably outside their control to an extent, but they have a firm order book for a good number of aircraft in a relatively short time-frame. They're not expanding much over the winter, but all these new aircraft will need places to fly to next summer, and it's only a matter of time before others start laying on lots of new capacity with these aircraft types.

I think you can argue little with the strategy they're taking and it's a mass-market product, unlike the likes of MaxJet, Eos, SilverJet etc. They're establishing themselves quite firmly with a focus on primary routes/city pairs, a low-cost competitor to the traditional full-service carriers, where they can really showcase their aircraft as their key strength to a clear cost advantage. They're too already showing a disciplined approach to routes that aren't working, ie the initial winter schedule to/from Boston which has become a seasonal operation.

On the whole, I remain quietly optimistic about Primera and look forward to what the future maybe holds for them.

[nt639]

nt639 -

Solid reasoning -

Multiple aircraft types
Too many small bases remote from each other (worse next year)
Over-rapid expansion
Lack of resilience causing sub-chartering or cancellations
No economies of scale vs. competitors
Lack of brand awareness

...would you like more?

yes main reason

Dont fly from LTN😜

[LGS6753]

I suspect their aspirations couldn't be met from Luton's short runway. Nor is there sufficient capacity at present for a significant new operator, so there was never any chance of them using LTN.

[USERNAME_]

So it appears rumours that we are signing an interline agreement with JetBlue might well be true?

[PDXCWL45]

So it appears rumours that we are signing an interline agreement with JetBlue might well be true?


So the New York flights could be shifted to JFK then?

[southside bobby]

Await further interline news/developments with interest...

It would be a very positive for PRI & would make perhaps their strategy clearer too with all the mainland announcements .

Would give JBU instant access to UK/Europe as their own fleet of A321LR`s someways off yet.

Co-incidental or not JBU stated recently they were looking at BOS to either LGW or STN as their first TATL .

Norwegian have sought to strike an agreement with JBU in the past but JBU were not talking.

[SWBKCB]

Await further interline news/developments with interest...

It would be a very positive for PRI & would make perhaps their strategy clearer too with all the mainland announcements .

Would give JBU instant access to UK/Europe as their own fleet of A321LR`s someways off yet.

Co-incidental or not JBU stated recently they were looking at BOS to either LGW or STN as their first TATL .

Norwegian have sought to strike an agreement with JBU in the past but JBU were not talking.

I agree - potential game changer if it happens.

[daz211]

It would explain the Arctic explosion of new European bases popping up like mushrooms.
but let’s not get carried away, time will tell, fingers crossed.

[daz211]

So it appears rumours that we are signing an interline agreement with JetBlue might well be true?



Found this info, sounds 100 miles of how primera are doing things.

But JetBlue appears interested in taking on full-service airlines that offer business class across the Atlantic. JetBlue’s Mint business class offers lie-flat seats and suites with doors and higher-end food than the coach-class cabins where the airline sells meals.

“When we think about trans-Atlantic, we do think we can disrupt largely around a Mint-like product because we’ve been so successful on flying to the West Coast with Mint,” Geraghty said. A long-range variant of the Airbus A321 plane could do the job to Europe but JetBlue is weighing where to best deploy its fleet.

[USERNAME_]

It's been confirmed that OY-PAB, the 6th Airbus A321neo to be delivered, will no longer arrive due to some unspecified issue with the fuselage in the factory. It was originally supposed to be delivered in April 2018.
The airline has negotiated with airbus, and Primera will now receive an additional A321neoLR instead, bringing the airbus fleet to x5 Airbus 321neo, x3 Airbus 321neoLR.

[daz211]

It's been confirmed that OY-PAB, the 6th Airbus A321neo to be delivered, will no longer arrive due to some unspecified issue with the fuselage in the factory. It was originally supposed to be delivered in April 2018.
The airline has negotiated with airbus, and Primera will now receive an additional A321neoLR instead, bringing the airbus fleet to x5 Airbus 321neo, x3 Airbus 321neoLR.

thats a bit of a result, give me a LR over the Standard neo.
any idea where the LR’s will be based ? And when they are due ?
also any news on Stansted summer 19 ?

[USERNAME_]

thats a bit of a result, give me a LR over the Standard neo.
any idea where the LR’s will be based ? And when they are due ?
also any news on Stansted summer 19 ?

Don’t quote me on it but I believe x1 in STN and x2 in CDG.

no news of the S19 schedule yet unfortunately. Rumour has it because they’re still negotiating some new routes and don’t want to release it until they’re all confirmed.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Not wishing to reignite a wave of mockery, just curious- was the rumour about flights to SOU only ever a wind-up, or an actual rumour? If the latter, has any more been heard or is that particular rumour dead now?

[SWBKCB]

Wind-up :mad:

[The Nutts Mutts]

Thanks for your helpful reply. I was more interested in hearing from the person who originally posted the rumour who actually works for the company, but I appreciate your assistance.

[USERNAME_]

Not wishing to reignite a wave of mockery, just curious- was the rumour about flights to SOU only ever a wind-up, or an actual rumour? If the latter, has any more been heard or is that particular rumour dead now?

I apologise that this was just a poor attempt at a wind up. The only other airport Primera are looking at is BRS but I’ve not posted that because as far as I’m aware that’s nothing more than a “crewmour”

[The Nutts Mutts]

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. I suspected as much but was keeping my fingers crossed just in case it wasn't!

[daz211]

Don’t quote me on it but I believe x1 in STN and x2 in CDG.

no news of the S19 schedule yet unfortunately. Rumour has it because they’re still negotiating some new routes and don’t want to release it until they’re all confirmed.

Thanks for the info, what’s the delivery date for orders and do you know what the make up will be for each base ?
one last thing is longhaul dead at BHX ?

[_aax1]

All PF aircraft at STN have been impounded by the airport.

[daz211]

All PF aircraft at STN have been impounded by the airport.

REALLY :eek:

[harriewillem]

all pf aircraft at stn have been impounded by the airport.

are you sure, what is source, big statement!

[ericlday]

PF47 to IAD has ETD of 15.55 so we shall see if this does get airborne

[USERNAME_]

From crewing, airline no longer exists.

Second redundancy in as many years.


Heartbroken.

[daz211]

PF47 to IAD has ETD of 15.55 so we shall see if this does get airborne

Was just about to post the same re PF47 to EWR.
This is a big strange damaging post if not true, I would like more info from the horses mouth.

[daz211]

From crewing, airline no longer exists.

Second redundancy in as many years.


Heartbroken.

Wow :ouch: I really feel for you.

[USERNAME_]

*post removed*

[toledoashley]

The recent route announcements were crazy, but its never good to see this.

[brian_dromey]

The e-mail is a really honest account of how difficult it is to keep the planes flying in the industry. I applaud Primera for trying a new model, its a shame that delivery delays and lease-ins were necessary. Not only were these expensive the lease-in wasn't reliable either. The EU261 claim bill must have been huge - to the point it probably brought the airline down.
Is such a shame that the damage meant that Birmingham wasn't planned to return, its the kind of market that the A321neo/LR can really crack open.

From crewing, airline no longer exists.

Second redundancy in as many years.


Heartbroken.

Im really saddened to hear this. Did you previously fly with MON? I wish you all the best for the future.

[160to4DME]

Dreadful news, especially for those who hopped over from Monarch whose anniversary is exactly one year tomorrow. :(

[southside bobby]

Message now on the Primera website...

Details amongst the sad statement are costs of 10m Euro for the "rebuild" of the B738 last year(at NWI) due to extensive corrosion..

& 20m Euro for the leases in & associated costs incurred early in the season with the late NEO deliveries.

[BAladdy]

Where PF’s A321Neos Leased or owned?... Be interesting to see who snaps the aircraft up.

[Suzeman]

Message now on the Primera website...

Details amongst the sad statement are costs of 10m Euro for the "rebuild" of the B738 last year(at NWI) due to extensive corrosion..

& 20m Euro for the leases in & associated costs incurred early in the season with the late NEO deliveries.
Statement in full

https://primeraair.com/travel-alert/

Denmark, Copenhagen

October 1st, 2018

With a great regret, we must inform you that Primera Air will cease all operations on the midnight of October 1st, 2018 and enter administration process, after 14 years of operations.

This is a sad day for all the employees and passengers of Primera Air. The company has been working relentlessly during the last months to secure the long-term financing of the airline. Not being able to reach an agreement with our bank for a bridge financing, we had no other choice than filing for bankruptcy.

During the last 2 years, several unforeseen misfortunate events severely affected the financial standing of Primera Air. In 2017, the company lost one aircraft from operations due to severe corrosion problems and had to bear the total cost of rebuilding, resulted in a loss of more than 10 million euros. 2018 began with a fantastic start of our low-cost long-haul project with a brand-new Airbus 321neo fleet, however, due to severe delays of aircraft deliveries this beginning ended up being rocky and incredibly problematic: operational issues, cancelations of number of flights, loss of revenues are just a few to mention. In addition, to fulfill our obligations in front of passengers, Primera Air leased in aircraft and beared additional costs of over 20 million euros.

Weighting the potential losses due to future delivery delays, and the added exposure to our partners and lessors, and bearing in mind the difficult environment that airlines are facing now due to low prices and high fuel costs, we have decided to cease operations now, where it will have a smaller effect on our clients, due to the timing of the year, rather than increasing the exposure. Without additional financing, we do not see any possibility to continue our operations.

This is an enormous disappointment after the incredible hard work and dedication put into building the airline. The company wants to sincerely thank all its employees for their hard work and dedication, its clients for years of loyal support and its suppliers for their cooperation during the years.

Sincerely,

The board of Primera Air



And looks like the decision was made last night according to the time stamp on this release
https://primeraair.com/about-us/corporate-info/

[southside bobby]

5 x NEO leased.

2 x LR due to be leased from AerCap.

[Alteagod]

Such sad news. Was a wonderful airline to dedpatch and lovely bunch of staff who worked for them. Very best of luck to all the staff. When an airline goes under it is always so sad. The reasons just ATM don't mater its just sad end off

[whitelighter]

Someone will pick up the airframes from the leasing company.

if your going to get aircraft back, you’d be happy with 321N over just about anything else.

[USERNAME_]

The e-mail is a really honest account of how difficult it is to keep the planes flying in the industry. I applaud Primera for trying a new model, its a shame that delivery delays and lease-ins were necessary. Not only were these expensive the lease-in wasn't reliable either. The EU261 claim bill must have been huge - to the point it probably brought the airline down.
Is such a shame that the damage meant that Birmingham wasn't planned to return, its the kind of market that the A321neo/LR can really crack open.



Im really saddened to hear this. Did you previously fly with MON? I wish you all the best for the future.


did indeed fly for MON for 6 years. Absolutely gutted, that’s an understatement.


Exactly a year later, time to scroll through endless job applications, referencing stages and then training yet again.

[daz211]

did indeed fly for MON for 6 years. Absolutely gutted, that’s an understatement.


Exactly a year later, time to scroll through endless job applications, referencing stages and then training yet again.

Good luck in finding alternative employment.
I know it would mean a bit more training but get yourself over to Jet2 seems to be much more secure.

[Pistonprop]

Of course it is sad for all employed by the airline and they have my commiserations. But, were they so surprised? I ask only because after this Summer's fiasco the first signs of trouble were there for all to see. Unfortunately, it was just only a matter of time. Great pity though.

[BasilFawlty]

"several unforeseen misfortunate events" As far as I know the only misfortunate event was starting all those silly transatlantic routes in the first place. 'Cobbler, stick to your last', they should have sticked to the Scandinavian holiday business, like they have been doing for 14 years.

[compton3bravo]

Sad news as already mentioned especially for the employees but it was obvious to some of use that it was just a matter of time, just rank bad management. Might give two other airlines which fly transatlantic services who are in a poor state financially some breathing space if they can get over the winter period.

[Stanstedeye]

A very sad day indeed. The last arrival tonight is the 10.37 from AGP with OY-PSE.

[southside bobby]

A321N disposition...

3 at STN.
2 at CDG.

[daz211]

A321N disposition...

3 at STN.
2 at CDG.

EWR / BOS / IAD AND YYZ, Were all due into Stansted Tomorrow morning, most of the inbound passengers still have not got a clue they are stranded, but good news for the inbound AGP passengers en-route to STN I wonder what the aircraft will do once on the ground at STN.

[Wycombe]

rank bad management

From the viewpoint of someone just observing this sad outcome, it seems that Airbus bear some responsibility also.

Late deliveries and one not capable of delivery at all seems like a contributory factor, at the very least?

[rog747]

EWR / BOS / IAD AND YYZ, Were all due into Stansted Tomorrow morning, most of the inbound passengers still have not got a clue they are stranded, but good news for the inbound AGP passengers en-route to STN I wonder what the aircraft will do once on the ground at STN.
The IAD and EWR out from STN were both canx this afternoon, so I assume those a/c are still sitting in London, and the corresponding returns tonight will not be operated

The Inbound AGP will likely be impounded like the others?

[AirportPlanner1]

Might give two other airlines which fly transatlantic services who are in a poor state financially some breathing space if they can get over the winter period.

I assume one of these you refer to is white and red and from Norway, if so crossover with Primera is minuscule so not sure what Primera has to do with anything. Who is the other one?

[EIFFS]

Well hate to say I told you so when someone asked about time to command and I replied that is the least of your worries.

Having been involved with Norwegians narrow body long haul ops from the start I know only to well the costs involved, yes we drivers made loads of money out of it, but and it’s a big but we started with brand aweness and long haul experience.

Fortunately no no shortage of jobs right now and most will be hovered up within a few days.

Norwegian are not out of the woods yet with sky high fuel prices but we have the newest greenest fleet out there.

[Plane mad 134]

My condolences to all staff involved as well and I hope they find new jobs soon enough, Its a shame to see this airline go as I feel there was some potential to do well, but alas the quick expansion and base announcements coupled with the late aircraft arrivals may have proved to be too much.

[True Blue]

If this airline was in such a tight corner finance wise, why were they busy announcing new bases/ routes from several European airports? That I just don't get.

[daz211]

If this airline was in such a tight corner finance wise, why were they busy announcing new bases/ routes from several European airports? That I just don't get.

I would guess to get advanced bookings to get money rolling in then play catch up.

[good egg]

Obviously best wishes to all those who now need to find gainful employment.

What surprises me most, however, is talk of late deliveries, etc. leading to this situation. Wouldn’t there have been a penalty clause regarding late delivery? A clause which would cover unexpected leasing costs? Or am I just too naive???

[USERNAME_]

Gut wrenching reading that our crews stranded downroute are paying out of their own pockets (IAD/NYC/YYZ-LON) to get themselves home.

Absolutely disgusting, and not cheap either. All phone lines to the company no longer work, just left to fight for themselves.

[racedo]

Looked at them only last week for booking a T/A flight from Stansted............. wondered about success rate as remember Maxjet etc from there.

I think oil at $100 a barrel plus is going to start biting very quickly across all airlines.

[compton3bravo]

The second airline airportplanner is Icelandic with three letters. An article in a holiday trade paper last week they admitted they had not paid any fees to Icelandic airports this year amounting to nearly $14 million. With the the rise in oil prices I hope they had hedged some fuel.

[Wycombe]

What surprises me most, however, is talk of late deliveries, etc. leading to this situation. Wouldn’t there have been a penalty clause regarding late delivery? A clause which would cover unexpected leasing costs? Or am I just too naive???

No doubt there would have been penalty clauses/payments, but the late deliveries in themselves led to the disaster that was the National 757 hire-in, and the resulting operational trouble and reputational damage.

[FQTLSteve]

I was lucky got BHX-AGP yesterday afternoon now I understand the captain's sign off to us as we were closing on Malaga.

[HelpNeeded]

I was lucky got BHX-AGP yesterday afternoon now I understand the captain's sign off to us as we were closing on Malaga.
What did he say?

[ericlday]

Its 'Goodbye' from me and 'Goodbye' from him

[Blakedean]

Flew with them from DUB to PMI twice back in 08 & 09, sad to see them go.

[EI-BUD]

If this airline was in such a tight corner finance wise, why were they busy announcing new bases/ routes from several European airports? That I just don't get.

Chances are TrueBlue that they were lining up backers/securing sources of finance that they hoped would materialise in the 11th hour, so they carried on business as usual to create hinges for the new ac coming on stream. These sort of airlines need to keep expanding and delivering for economies of scale. When they slow down growth rates, it can pose particular challenges.

What they were attempting to do was based on the premise that they would quite soon turn a good yield on TA business, but a bit like Norwegian Air International that dial didn't turn in the right direction fast enough.

On a related note, what are the implications of this on Norwegian Air International? Bound to be a ripple effect in terms of investor/ market confidence?

[whitelighter]

If this airline was in such a tight corner finance wise, why were they busy announcing new bases/ routes from several European airports? That I just don't get.

There were rumors of a tie in/interline agreement with JetBlue on the cards. Opening or Announcing Frankfurt and Paris might have been a move to encourage that partnership or and least make it more viable. That would have opened up markets for both airlines but I guess the cash ran out too fast

[AirportPlanner1]

Gut wrenching reading that our crews stranded downroute are paying out of their own pockets (IAD/NYC/YYZ-LON) to get themselves home.

Absolutely disgusting, and not cheap either. All phone lines to the company no longer work, just left to fight for themselves.

Do other carriers not assist in these scenarios? I’m sure I’ve heard before of stranded crew being repatriated through goodwill

[snn20]

Do other carriers not assist in these scenarios? I’m sure I’ve heard before of stranded crew being repatriated through goodwill

Virgin are honouring Primera tickets from all american airports primera flew too. Wow also flying stranded staff home

[USERNAME_]

YL-PSI just landed at Shannon from Copenhagen. They didn’t waste time eh :sad:

[rog747]

Virgin are honouring Primera tickets from all american airports primera flew too. Wow also flying stranded staff home

Airport Planner1
Username_

Nice gestures, especially for the stranded staff -
BA kindly flew me home from LAX in 1982 on my (now worthless) staff travel ticket when Laker GK went bust the day after I arrived
Thanks BA, and I was put in Club!
I think Pan Am or BCAL flew the GK crews home?

[racedo]

YL-PSI just landed at Shannon from Copenhagen. They didn’t waste time eh :sad:

Owners of aircraft want them back, hardly a surprise.
The Leasing Company will be responsible for paying costs at Airports once they regain posession
hence get them back to base ASAP.

[racedo]

Airport Planner1
Username_

Nice gestures, especially for the stranded staff -
BA kindly flew me home from LAX in 1982 on my (now worthless) staff travel ticket when Laker GK went bust the day after I arrived
Thanks BA, and I was put in Club!
I think Pan Am or BCAL flew the GK crews home?

Aside from being a decent thing to do it also sends a positive message
1.) to existing staff that you look after people
2.) to potentially new staff whom you may be giving a lift home to but who
could be working for you in a month or two.

Cost in reality is a little bit of extra fuel, PR benefit can not be bought.

[USERNAME_]

Some very strange goings on at the moment.
STN and CPH staff (Scandinavia) haven’t been informed of any kind of contract termination whereas ARN and RIX crew have (Nordic).
YL-PSI(Nordic) positioned to Shannon last night. Nordic HQ and OPS in Riga taken over by Administrators yesterday but Scandinavian ops in CPH still got staff in.

and apparently the company hasn’t even filed for Bankruptcy yet, despite them claiming to do it on the 2nd.

Crew rosters are also having random flights added/removed or crew being added and removed.


All very odd.

[PDXCWL45]

Some very strange goings on at the moment.
STN and CPH staff (Scandinavia) haven’t been informed of any kind of contract termination whereas ARN and RIX crew have (Nordic).
YL-PSI(Nordic) positioned to Shannon last night. Nordic HQ and OPS in Riga taken over by Administrators yesterday but Scandinavian ops in CPH still got staff in.

and apparently the company hasn’t even filed for Bankruptcy yet, despite them claiming to do it on the 2nd.

Crew rosters are also having random flights added/removed or crew being added and removed.


All very odd.
Is the trans Atlantic flights operated by the Nordic airline?

[USERNAME_]

Is the trans Atlantic flights operated by the Nordic airline?

Scandinavia.

[Cyrano]

I flew out of STN today and I believe I saw 4 Primera aircraft parked behind Harrods.

[USERNAME_]

Danish cabin crew union say Primera are not bankrupt, and have not filed for bankruptcy.

Have until the 16th to sort this situation out.

Crews told to prepare to be called out with 24 hours notice.


What on on earth is going on.

[tubby linton]

It looks like a retreat back into their core operation. If the Airbus operation has been done through an employment agency and goodness only knows what to sell the tickets then some of the smart people should be able to seperate the entities to continue the opetation. Excel Fr kept going as did Air Europa when their parents went bust.

[_aax1]

Danish cabin crew union say Primera are not bankrupt, and have not filed for bankruptcy.

Have until the 16th to sort this situation out.

Crews told to prepare to be called out with 24 hours notice.


What on on earth is going on.

Even if that was the case and attempted to start services again, they are at the point of no return. Crew and passengers will not forgive them nor trust them again.

[southside bobby]

Some ex PRI a/c on the move from STN today...

The B738 to SNN.
2x A321N to ZRH.

[racedo]

Even if that was the case and attempted to start services again, they are at the point of no return. Crew and passengers will not forgive them nor trust them again.

Not convinced on that........

Crew............... happy to still have a job and be paid, yes its risky but so is every job but keeping looking for something different, new hires............. desperate to get into the industry so even if last a year I have a years experience.

Pax................... What is price ? Book by CC to ensure get money back, Make sure I have travel insurance.

[racedo]

It looks like a retreat back into their core operation. If the Airbus operation has been done through an employment agency and goodness only knows what to sell the tickets then some of the smart people should be able to seperate the entities to continue the opetation. Excel Fr kept going as did Air Europa when their parents went bust.

Well done on reaching 2000 posts :D

I agree with your synopsis.
Some part are profitable and some are not.
Receivers role is to separate them which easy as will all be Ltd companys and try and keep profitable going.

[_aax1]

Not convinced on that........

Crew............... happy to still have a job and be paid, yes its risky but so is every job but keeping looking for something different, new hires............. desperate to get into the industry so even if last a year I have a years experience.

Pax................... What is price ? Book by CC to ensure get money back, Make sure I have travel insurance.

I'm talking about their LH crew. Who in their right mind who go back to an airline that left them stranded abroad, and haven't paid them? There's no shortage of crew or flight deck jobs across Europe.

The industry is at over capacity and the vast majority of their routes have competitors where prices are at rock bottom, would you book with an airline that has cut all operations, declared/not declared bankruptcy? But it's okay, i'll take the risk because i'll pay on a credit card? We're at a time where airlines are doing everything possible to build loyalty in a market that is completely price driven. They will have zero loyalty.

[Dannyboy39]

Even if that was the case and attempted to start services again, they are at the point of no return. Crew and passengers will not forgive them nor trust them again.
it’s also quite hard to restart an airline without any aircraft...

[USERNAME_]

it’s also quite hard to restart an airline without any aircraft...

The airbuses are still here. Primera pilots were called out to fly them to Zurich this morning but as of now are still sat at Harrods aviation in STN waiting for more info.

Personally I think the airline is dead and buried but would be happy to take a job back for the time being regardless until I can find something more stable.

[southside bobby]

B738 `PSE ferried STN-SNN this AM with a PVT/PrivatAir callsign presumably just for the ferry although possibly with PRI or ex PRI crew.

[USERNAME_]

B738 `PSE ferried STN-SNN this AM with a PVT/PrivatAir callsign presumably just for the ferry although possibly with PRI or ex PRI crew.

3 Stansted based flight deck operated that particular flight.

[southside bobby]

Thanks for info...Yes the flight deck referenced /acknowledged "Primera" after take off when switching to Stansted Director freq.

[compton3bravo]

Do hope the flight crew got money up front and expenses,, probably paid by the lessor.

[racedo]

Do hope the flight crew got money up front and expenses,, probably paid by the lessor.

It will be paid either by the receiver or lessor and it will be guaranteed to be paid plus flights back.
No reason to be stingy when needing a $50 million aircraft to be flown back, as I believe Lease fees paid up front then just deduct it from
anything due to go back to receiver.

[El Bunto]

Some ex PRI a/c on the move from STN today...

The B738 to SNN.
2x A321N to ZRH.

Also B738 OY-PSA from Copenhagen to Shannon as PVT001, I did a double-take as it went overhead.

[danielson81]

OY-PAA & OY-PAF were in Malta on Sunday: Twitter and Flickr links.

[whitelighter]

I have no doubt the leasing company will have no problems finding a home for the A321Ns

B738 still impounded at STN

[USERNAME_]

I have no doubt the leasing company will have no problems finding a home for the A321Ns

B738 still impounded at STN

Theres no 738 in STN, OY-PSE positioned to Shannon last week.

[whitelighter]

That’s not what the airport authority said.
Must be an A321N then....

[EISNN]

There are five aircraft in Primera colours parked
in SNN. Saw them there yesterday afternoon in the distance.

[BHX5DME]

Two new 737s noted in Seattle today too sure these will be snapped up quickly

[whitelighter]

Aircraft at STN is O-YPAE

[brian_dromey]

I really wonder what went wrong at Primera.

13 years of successful charter flying and suddenly the decide to double the size of the airline to operate transatlantic routes.
The new aircraft were late arriving, so ratty replacements were hastily found at great expense.
New aircraft kept coming thick and fast, only the roster of new routes grew faster - but revenue from the fantasy route network couldn’t sustain the winter.

The A321NEO has been chosen by airlines like EI and TP for similar routes, EI and the US3 have been operating the 757 on these routes for year, so the model can work. Globespan had similar rapid expansion, high hopes and dramatic implosion.

I suppose my question is weither the long haul LCC model doesn’t work, or if it was a case of overly ambitious timelines and financial strain stretching that caused their doom. In short, would they have been OK if the A321s had been delivered on-time?

[whitelighter]

I suspect they would have lasted longer - but I’m not sure they had the financial backing to really make it work.

ok, had everything run perfectly then I reckon they would have made it, but anyone one of a multitude of problems arising would have had the same result.

they didn’t seem to have much in the contingency pot.

i still think efficient narrow body twin jet ops probably is the future for routes like U.K.>East coast US but whether that is with legacy airlines adjusting or new players remains to be seen. Though for new players the record isn’t great

[USERNAME_]

I really wonder what went wrong at Primera.

13 years of successful charter flying and suddenly the decide to double the size of the airline to operate transatlantic routes.
The new aircraft were late arriving, so ratty replacements were hastily found at great expense.
New aircraft kept coming thick and fast, only the roster of new routes grew faster - but revenue from the fantasy route network couldn’t sustain the winter.

The A321NEO has been chosen by airlines like EI and TP for similar routes, EI and the US3 have been operating the 757 on these routes for year, so the model can work. Globespan had similar rapid expansion, high hopes and dramatic implosion.

I suppose my question is weither the long haul LCC model doesn’t work, or if it was a case of overly ambitious timelines and financial strain stretching that caused their doom. In short, would they have been OK if the A321s had been delivered on-time?

Among other things too, after the first month or two, crews (both flight and cabin) were becoming increasingly fatigued because of the roster patterns. This led to a lot of sickness and tired crew, it even caused some to leave, leaving flights without crew and often cancelled or significantly delayed. This was also the reason for the 737 via KEF to EWR, because of lack of flight deck.
As mentioned before, this caused a dramatic rush for cabin crew recruitment with several new courses being pushed through per month which I guess added to the bill.

Feel for the souls in training at the time of collapse, a lot of them had left airlines like EK and BA to join.

Glad Andri Ingolfsson managed to save himself and his travel agencies though, the Icelandic Andrew Swaffield.

[ExpectmorePayless]

Andrew Swaffield was such a travel industry high flyer and industry expert, only he could preside over a £765m debt bankruptcy while telling his staff in weekly email missives that everything was rosy. Such a respectable individual he even told us how his polo team was performing. Mind you, if you were pocketing a salary of £583000 and a company chauffeur for such a performance, it's no wonder he thought things were so good.
if I were working for the Virgin Group Loyalty Programme where the CFO is also his former Monarch sidekick, I'd be keeping a beady eye on the finances and the number of dubious consultants.

[tubby linton]

Three B738 still in Souda this week. They don’t seem to be particularly well cared for.

[STN406]

OY-PAE has just left Stansted, flying under its own registration. Showing on FR24 with the owner as Aviation Capital Group.

[cornishsimon]

Interesting. Where’s she heading. NQY, EXT ?


cs

[cornishsimon]

Looks like I can answer my own question. She’s currently decending through 15000ft heading for newquay


cs

[USERNAME_]

Primera Travel Group has reformed as Travelco Nordic. Wonder if this will be another “Excel/Viking” type thing where another airline will soon be introduced

[USERNAME_]

unfortunately don't have access to this, but interesting nonetheless.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/72374-trustees-probe-primera-airs-books-after-08mn-goes-missing

[Cyrano]

unfortunately don't have access to this, but interesting nonetheless.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/72374-trustees-probe-primera-airs-books-after-08mn-goes-missing

Here's the original Danish newspaper story (https://www.jv.dk/business/Kurator-Der-er-kun-250000-kroner-og-en-bil-tilbage-i-krakket-flyselskab/artikel/2655499) to which the CH-Aviation article refers (Google Translate is your friend).

[EIFFS]

I see Norwegian have picked up various ex Primera charters around Europe to Egypt

[southside bobby]

Two of the A321NEO`s originally `PAA & PAF have been allocated to TAP/Air Portugal for early next year.

[USERNAME_]

A321neo OY-PAD still on the ground in CDG, hasn't moved since 2nd October 2018.
French authorities won't allow it to leave until all unpaid fees, have been paid.

Who's job is it to pay the fees? Liquidator? Leasing company?

Rumour also has it OY-PAC flew CDG to Norwich last week for repainting, reportedly going to Condor?

Such a shame to see such a new aircraft (Delivered to us July 2018 IIRC), sat around rotting away like it is.

[rog747]

Strange that the leasing company have not recovered their asset -
The liquidators likely have no spare cash in the till.

[01475]

I presume it just wasn't in demand over the winter? If it doesn't go somewhere soon then we know that there is a *really* serious problem in the industry!

[SealinkBF]

Saw a few Primera aircraft at Cork Shannon last week.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x971/20190213_120903_28258acb599646ed7119acdb67c0a371e0d0d368.jpg

[cornishsimon]

Fairly certain there’s a couple still sat at NQY also


cs

[Fly757X]

Saw a few Primera aircraft at Cork last week.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x971/20190213_120903_28258acb599646ed7119acdb67c0a371e0d0d368.jpg

Are you sure that’s not Shannon?

[snn20]

Are you sure that’s not Shannon?
yes, that’s Shannon alright 😂 We have 3 here

[Fly757X]

yes, that’s Shannon alright 😂 We have 3 here

Was about to say Cork have fairly changed their direction in the last week since I was there :ok:

[SealinkBF]

Yes, its Shannon! Sorry!

[sparkie320]

A321neo OY-PAD still on the ground in CDG, hasn't moved since 2nd October 2018.
French authorities won't allow it to leave until all unpaid fees, have been paid.

Who's job is it to pay the fees? Liquidator? Leasing company?

Rumour also has it OY-PAC flew CDG to Norwich last week for repainting, reportedly going to Condor?

Such a shame to see such a new aircraft (Delivered to us July 2018 IIRC), sat around rotting away like it is.

didnt arrive at Norwich i'm afraid
Mark

[Wycombe]

Looks like 321Neo OY-PAE (as was) left NQY this morning as EI-ITA and has arrived at EMA.

Suggestions online that's it's going to Alitalia?

[LiamNCL]

Looks like 321Neo OY-PAE (as was) left NQY this morning as EI-ITA and has arrived at EMA.

Suggestions online that's it's going to Alitalia?

according to planespotters it wasnt taken up.

[LBIA]

Boeing 737-800, OY-PSH positioned Woensdrecht to Leeds yesterday afternoon still in full Primera livery for Jet2 to become G-DRTU.