HKAOA -losing the plot?

[Liam Gallagher]

If the company "victimised" an individual or group of individuals and fired them for carrying out the reasonable actions of the HKAOA, the one and only response is strike. 6 months pay as compensation from your brother and sisters in the AOA .. FFS.... I am embarrassed....we are inviting trouble!!

Come on Ladies and Gents, this is Unionism 101. Taken to the extreme, if the company fired the GC, our only course of action has to be to not show up to work the next day, then the next and so on until they are reinstated. What are we suggesting, we pay the GC six months salary, pat them on the back, a round of beers, some rousing speeches wishing them well in their future careers and then ask for new volunteers to form a new GC? Dont be surprised if nobody volunteers.

This is a basic fundamental of being a union.... Protect your volunteers, because if you don't you won't have a Union for much longer.

[Start Fore]

Wrong. The pay compensation is to give the rank and file the balls to actually go ahead with the strike without fear of personal inimidation/sacking for sprurious reasons by our caring employer. Think 49ers.

I think this is a step in the right direction, and about time and all.

[oriental flyer]

If you read the basic law article 27 states
HK residents shall have freedom of speech , of the press and of publication. Freedom of association , of assembly of procession and of demonstration and of the right and freedom to form and join trade unions and to strike

[BusyB]

Liam,

Think you missed the point. Not just for GC members but for all and covering trumped up dismissals for no declared reason.

[quadspeed]

Employee has the freedom to strike and employer the freedom to fire.

Not worth much I'm afraid.

[goathead]

I hope we all still appreciate that the Swine hierarchy is still the same vindictive narcissistic inbred our way our the highway establishment it was back in ‘01 during the firings of the ‘49ers, nothing much has changed.
It’s still got the same kronies trying to pull the same ole BS on us.
They can fire whom they like but they will only be making matters worse and worse , and if they have any inkling how low moral is right now and how many of the troops will just go anyway ....

Huge credit to the union and the proposal and the proposers 👍

[cxorcist]

The way I see it, CX has two choices. They can turn a once proud airline into a boutique carrier with local only pilots while giving away massive market share to HKA; OR they can treat their pilots with respect and retain employees that allow CX to compete for the market in HK.

Knowing CX as I do from my experience here, they will try to find a middle ground. They won’t really treat employees well at all, but they won’t default to being a boutique carrier either. They will continue to sacrifice market share to other carriers all while pretending to compete and treat their employees well. The Big Lie will continue. They will pretend to pay us, and we will pretend to work. Morale will continue to crater. CX will die a slow death, as it is already. Air China and others will pick at the carcus years from now, and those whom have left already will have looked all the wiser.

[Liam Gallagher]

Busyb,

I haven't missed the point. I understand this applies to all members. I think you missed my comment about taking it to the extreme and I used the most extreme example I could think of....the company sacking the GC.

Those quoting the law are deluding themselves, nobody will be fired for Union Activities. They will be given three months pay in lieu of notice for "no particular reason", or "loss of confidence". That's why the HKAOA's proposal may look good, but is actually nonsense;

1. It will never trigger, because nobody will be fired for Union Activities; they will be fired for other "grey" stuff.
2. The HKAOA doesn't have the money to fund anything other than a handful of sackings. It's a hollow commitment.
3. It signals to the Company and your fellow members that we won't even go on strike if they fired our GC. Why then should they be scared of cutting Housing or not paying a fair HKPA Allowance.

Frankly, I am embarrassed by anyone promoting this as a step in the right direction. ....Union 101...

[raven11]

Liam, slow down. It’s chess, not wack-a-mole.

[Liam Gallagher]

Raven and Worriedpilot,

Have a read of my posts and take some time to think very carefully about what I am saying and what I am not saying. Take the time to dial down the hysteria and dial up some fortitude, decency and out right common-sense.

What I am not saying is we move to strike action as an escalation of CC/TB. That's a separate discussion. What I am saying is the termination of a member (or members) by management, as part of what the GC believes to be an industrial escalation by management, must be met by one action only;- strike.

I am not saying this as someone desperate to strap on a bomb-vest and pull the handle, but someone who believes we all have a line, and the termination of our fellow members as part of management's industrial plan must sit on the "strike" side of that line. I don't care where your personal line sits, but if "industrial" terminations doesn't sit within the "strike" zone, then;

1. You lack decency. Paying someone 6 months salary may easy your conscience but it doesn't ease mine.
2. You lack common sense. Unless the company knows very, very bad things will happen if they move to terminations, you are inviting them to take that action. We must have a credible deterent. This motion in no way deters management, in fact it probably does the opposite. It clearly signals to them that if they fire 49 of our colleagues again, our response will be to show up to work the next morning and bankrupt the HKAOA in the afternoon;- Result!!! Aren't we just inviting it, where's the deterrent?
3. You lack a spine.

I am embarrassed that the GC is even proposing this and anyone believing this is a step in the right direction needs to step outside and have a word with themselves.

[Dragon69]

Liam, I agree with you, but as someone else pointed out, we have an association with lots of members, but with very few union men. That's the sad truth!

The AoA are aware of this, and to mention the word strike in a motion this early is going to have all the scaredy cats running to the nearest trash bin. Give it time, let the momentum build. Ultimately I'm sure the motion will revised to what you're rightfully suggesting.

[Liam Gallagher]

For those who think I am crazed uni-bomber, then perhaps you will freak out when you read Motion 3.

Now I have read Motion 3 repeatedly and I can only assume it's written by someone who has English as a second language and antipodean as their first. I think it is authorising the Chairman to lead us into any Industrial Action he sees fit. He doesn't require a GC vote and he doesn't require a membership. It's a completely blank cheque.

Dangerous stuff......

Anyone read it differently?

[DropKnee]

Liam,
He is saying that the members of the HKAOA lack a spine. That’s how I read it.
He is right about the spine part. That’s why we find ourselves here today. Talking about cuts when every first rate airline in our home countries are getting big raises.

[Farman Biplane]

Perhaps it is finally the HKAOA-writing the plot?
About time we saw some leadership and proactive activity.

[heavydane]

A few comment from the side line.

In the midst of the biggest shortage of pilots ever, Your company declare that they are lowering You housing allowance and this in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world.
The next day You all show up for work and Your checkers and trainers keep doing what they are doing.
And now You are surprised that they are still coming at You?

[morningcoffee]

For those who think I am crazed uni-bomber, then perhaps you will freak out when you read Motion 3.

Now I have read Motion 3 repeatedly and I can only assume it's written by someone who has English as a second language and antipodean as their first. I think it is authorising the Chairman to lead us into any Industrial Action he sees fit. He doesn't require a GC vote and he doesn't require a membership. It's a completely blank cheque.

Dangerous stuff......

Anyone read it differently?

Are you familiar with the Charge of the Light Brigade....

[ANTIPHOLUS]

Fortunately MC, we don’t have the « 600 » for the charge and ensuing massacre.

[Shep69]

mc

Are you familiar with the 20th Maine at Little Round Top ?

[azhkman]

CX will die a slow death, as it is already. Air China and others will pick at the carcus years from now, and those whom have left already will have looked all the wiser.

I think in time, it will be branded Air China HK and the changes that occur with this will be as one expects.

China hates HK, its traditions, and its people. Why wouldn't the airline be forced to be subservient to the Mainland? The only trick will be to figure out to what degree Hainan/HKA/HKE will be permitted to fill the void, ie, compete with an Air China subsidiary.

[valhalla634]

I agree with the Air China takeover scenario. President Xi recently referred to the colonial shame of Hong Kong’s history. China will step in soon. The Kingboard/Qatar move is part of the strategy in a side deal made between Beijing and Doha. Unlike a thread on the AOA forum I don’t think John Swires of London are trying to talk down the share price. The opposite. When the sign or be fired contract rolls out soon the stock market will love it. Then Swires will cash out a large chunk.

[Soul planet]

https://hk.news.appledaily.com/local/daily/article/20171124/20224068

WE MADE IT ONTO HK APPLE NEWS!

[Start Fore]

Any way to view that in English?

[fpuentegomez]

google translate, instead of normal text paste the http address and hit translate

[gofor]

HeHe, Poor CN TJ makes it onto the front page.

[CodyBlade]

But I get this...

"Dissatisfaction with Cathay Chutzpai pilots proposed industrial action"...

[checklistcomplete]

You are wasting your time with Google Translate.

[CXKA]

Just read the email from AOA, what a farce to give away so much. They can keep the red lanyard if they put that through will save my 800+ hkd per month on subscription fees!

[From a distance]

Really, The AOA email was well written and reasonable unlike the shrill response from you know who, quoting unsubstantiated figures who can only repeat “ the sky is falling down, the sky is falling down.”

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Bit too light on in the details with that email, change to the way 900 hours a year is counted. What does that mean? Time in the bunk not counted? Still a long way to go it seems with all the red in the table

[Liam Gallagher]

I am sorry good readers of pprune.... I chose the title of this thread incorrectly, it seems the HKAOA lost the plot some time ago. Apparently the GC thought the following was a good deal.

- I get to work 1/52 or 2% more and AFTLS 900 hour protection is increased and I sacrifice 20% of my earnings.
- Assuming a 5 year period, I will be earning about 20% less in year 5. (10% less in increments, 3% less in PFund and 7% less in HDP/EFP)
- I would have to move out of my house.
- I would gain some satisfaction that my colleagues on HKPA would get an increase, however their overall earnings would drop because they too would be down 20% in pay.
- The best industrial leverage we had for a generation would evaporate for absolutely no return.

In return, I would get a vague promise from a bunch of rogues with a rich history of reneging on deals (written or not) that they might;

- Return my investment.
- embrace Fleet Transfer by Seniority.
- Offer part-time work (if I could afford it!).

A couple of notes for the GC.

1. EBIT is Earning Before Interest and Tax. I think you mean EBITDA. But which ever one you use, payments to Swire and Air China are all included in EBIT and EBITDA. Basically, it's the same old manipulated numbers.
2. If you think I have my head in the sand, you are incorrect, I am really in the prone firing position ready to defend my home, 20% of my earning and my 6 weeks leave, that I firmly believe I should not be sacrificing because someone recklessly gambled on the fuel markets.

Now, those on the GC that got elected to negotiate concessions on my behalf please step forward and identify yourselves. I only voted for people who stood to protect and enhance my COS (which was all of you!).

[Natca]

What you don’t understand is that the company rejected these cuts! And are willing to force a worse contract down our throats....

[Liam Gallagher]

ahh Natca .... You must be one one of the GC members I voted for.

We are a union, we are allowed to fight back. Some random thoughts.

- The only way the Company could force this through is to terminate all our contracts and offer us new ones in 3 months time.
- Did you see the recent reaction in the SCMP to Motion 1. How do you think the travelling public will react to the news that in 3 months Cathay may have no pilots because they just terminated all our contracts?
- Yep, I know you will wet your gusset and waddle upstairs surrounded by a leaking pool of p!ss and sign whatever's put in front of you, however some of us might just go "poker face" for 3 months.
- Within the group who go "poker face", there might be a small bunch slightly more endowned in the trouser department, who would fight for 20% of their earnings and their homes.
- I have no evidence to support this, but in the "post German-Wings" world, do think the aircraft insurers are going to be happy with a bunch of "sacked" pilots flying around the skies for 3 months on their liability? I know in the IT world, you cannot touch a company computer once your contract is terminated, do you think it's "best practice" that we get to handle $250m aircraft for 3 months?

But then again, mustn't upset the company, that gets us nowhere...... collaboration has been so successful.

[Trafalgar]

As I have been saying. The ONLY way this company will listen is if they themselves suffer. So, resolve to demonstrate over this holiday season, and right through and over CNY, that you and your efforts have value. This company's operation should should reflect our disgust at what the company is trying to do. If you are not willing to take individual action, then welcome to your worthless career. For those of you who have any other options of employment, now is the time to exercise it. Good luck to all.

[Shep69]

FWIW there would be and will be no better time for the HKAOA to strike. Ever.

Think of the BS rammed down the pike in a market favoring pilots. And it has just accelerated. And will continue to do so.

IF you buy into any future scenario, with increasing influence from Beijing (whether through influence of private carriers or government regulations) do you REALLY think they will allow ‘national assets’ to strike ? Methinks if anything were to happen it would be a one sided version of the US RLA. In future operations Beijing will have no problem enforcing a back to work order within the SARs.

So it is now or never.

I guess it will be up to the will of the membership and how they envision their future.

[Trafalgar]

Shep. You are correct. However, there is no future. No matter the outcome, the bully boy tactics and corporate lying by the likes of DP are all that there is in store for this company for the rest of it's pathetic existence. The only real action available is to leave HK and establish a career in a part of the world where there are proper laws and processes. I will however be taking personal action over the next few months to do my part in showing this company that they have taken me for granted once too often. And the rest of us....? (and I do support a strike if called btw)

[Dragon69]

The AoA was gonna try and sell us that garbage? Unbelievable!

[GTC58]

A motion of "non confidence" could force a new election for a new president and GC if the majority of the HKAOA members disagree with the current direction the HKAOA is going. Just saying .......

[salad dodging]

There is already talk of a new pilots union to be created that actually represents it's members. The shocking revelations about how much the AOA was prepared to negotiate away on behalf of the membership will only increase the calls for a new union.

[GTC58]

No comment

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-pilots-cathay-pacific/chinese-airlines-court-cathay-pilots-facing-pay-squeeze-idUSKBN1DN29Q

[checklistcomplete]

baggagecart

you forgot to add that there is no more coal industry in UK. the action of the government destroyed 250,000 jobs in 10 years.
Back to HKG. It is time for a new pilots union. One that embraces all the HKG based airlines and not just CX.
I have it on good authority that "The Hong Kong Pilots Union 2018" is almost up and running.
The recent HKAOA concessions are not supported by the members and the GC should resign today. CX will then be forced to talk with the newly elected body.
So "HKPU 2018" forever.

[checklistcomplete]

To say the HKAOA represents 80% of the CX pilot body is misleading.
I doubt if it actually represents 50% and certainly amongst commanders far less than this.

HKPU 2018 the way forward.

[Dragon69]

When it took a separate union to eventually restore honour, dignity, and resolution to those that were terminated unfairly in 01 by something that was initially started by the HKAOA, then says it all about what to expect from this union when it comes to protecting your interests.

[morningcoffee]

To say the HKAOA represents 80% of the CX pilot body is misleading.
I doubt if it actually represents 50% and certainly amongst commanders far less than this.

HKPU 2018 the way forward.

There’s irony for you. Only a couple of years ago 48% of the pilot membership (call it 1200 members) voted to take the pay raise on offer. 1 of the 1200 chose to go on the AOA forum after the vote to discuss further. That member was abused and vilified by the hardliners and eventually quit the union. The lone voice of 1200 paying members. Not a single person who voted for the pay raise has dared to have their say on the AOA forum since.

So the 200 or so hardliners now want to break away because they think the AOA doesn’t represent them. I’m guessing plenty of the silent majority who voted against the pay raise would now happily take it.

The sooner a vote comes the better.

[cxorcist]

Excellent post. I agree 100%.

[checklistcomplete]

100% correct and accurate.

[Liam Gallagher]

Good post GFC2

Morningcoffee, if you want to see what life post TA16 wouid look like. Gaze across at KA. They agreed a 0% payrise and have their Housing locked up in their COS. The DPA has been summons to talks. Do you think Management wants to talk about payrises?:\

[tsimbeit]

If you want to see what life post 'victory' look like. Gaze across at KA.

The DPA, fought and got that pay rise some years ago and the boys lost two great airlines, Dragonair Cargo and Dragonair.

[morningcoffee]

So you’re saying that by taking a pay raise we would be paid less. Best you turn down 13th month, it’s a trick.
And you’re all more than happy to vilify the members who didn’t vote how you wanted them to. And that over rides the fact that if those 1200 ditch the AOA any strength you have goes out the window.
Which leads on to the reality of point 3, Clause 7. The company already has managed to tie up the SHP claim in the courts until eternity, it has also managed to reduce the payout to the 49ers to only 5 or 10% of what the court said was originally owed. And you naively think that having no clause 7 is going to save us from what? You strike, you lose your job and your P fund and you get blacklisted by every half decent airline out there.
But you sit there thinking lucky there’s no Clause 7 or things could be really bad? In reality, in the real world, on planet Earth, in Hong Kong, your argument makes no sense.
If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling irrespective of what history is telling you, I completely understand.

[petrichor]

Dragon69,
Clearly you have no idea what happened back in 01 and the post dispute formation of the HKPU. Educate yourself before making ignorant remarks like that.

[Trafalgar]

Morningcoffee. I'll give you full marks for perseverance. However, that doesn't change the fact you are a management plant, masquerading as a pilot. On that note, your attempts to discourage and dissuade our efforts to fight back are doomed to fail. Not because you don't have the ability to mess with us, but because ultimately, you can't have power over people who aren't even employed here anymore. THAT is the small fact that you and your management cretin comrades can't control: most of us are leaving (5 more this week confirmed with one of our main competitors, now awaiting course dates). You can rant and rave all you wish. Won't change the outcome. You will soon not have enough pilots to operate the fleet with. They are leaving. You have managed to convince nearly all of us that there is no future here worth betting the farm on. You have lied, bullied and intimidated us one step too far. Nothing you or your cabal say or do now will change the fact that you are liars. And sensible people don't tie their and their families careers and futures to the promises of liars. You, all of you, are immoral liars. And btw, when the SCMP posts their main editorial cartoon about CX needing pilots...well, the writing is on the wall. LMAO ! :ok:

[Trafalgar]

And one more thing: many of my ex-colleagues in C and T are just waiting to submit their resignations the first confirmed attack on our housing, pension or leave is received. You go down that route at your peril. None of us are willing to be seen to be part of a management attempt to not only ruin the careers of those here, but they are not willing to play the patsy when their own lifestyle and remuneration is attacked. You really must hold us in contempt to think we would play your game after that has happened. Drown in your own delusion. You and the rest of your pathetic Swire mafia. Oh, and the comment about being 'blacklisted'...you make me laugh. Every airline in the world is desperate for experienced crew. The only thing they will do is roll out the red carpet for everyone of us who applies. The only warm fuzzy will be the satisfaction in seeing you and your mob being swept into the dustbin of management history as the incompetent failures that you are. That outcome is not in doubt.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Traf why don't they just leave C+T now? Genuinely curious, the attacks have already started

[cxorcist]

... because there are so many C scalers still to train. Train enough of them and then it won’t matter if the C&Ters resign. They’ll be doing those jobs too. Duh, talk about an own goal. Idiots!

[Trafalgar]

I think management are :mad: scared of what MAY happen if they announce real and unjustified cuts. The C and T members actually have latent power in just the threat of them resigning. Which they will if the cuts are announced. At the moment I think they are better off keeping their powder dry. The department will collapse if the company moves against us. I’ve spoken to over two dozen personally. Every one has committed to resigning immediatlely. Don’t attack them now and play into the company’s hands. They are on the side of integrity. They will resign. None of them are willing to play if their own housing and pay are affected. Not worth it at the best of times. It certainly won’t be worth it then. C and T are finished if the company moves against us.

[Freehills]

Cafe de Coral get it. People expenses up 7% year on year

The decline in profitability of our Hong Kong operations for the period was due in large part to the
investment we made in people for our quick service restaurant (QSR) business, the Group’s core
business. This was necessary for attracting and retaining talent in a highly competitive labour market
as well as for our continuing business development in the sector. Our investment in people resulted in
significant improvements in our staff retention rate, although it also led to increases in manpower
expenses during the review period that were higher than the pace of our revenue growth.

[Fat_Dumb_and_Unhappy]

None of them are willing to play if their own housing and pay are affected. Not worth it at the best of times. It certainly won’t be worth it then. C and T are finished if the company moves against us.

It’s things like “...If THEIR OWN housing and pay are affected.” which cause alarm bells. What would they decide to do if the company comes up with a package where the trainers get significantly more housing than everyone else?

[cxorcist]

Exactly! “I got mine. I’m alright Jack.” Why wouldn’t CX do this? They’d be stupid not to, and most of our check and trainers will fall for it. Their contribution to the Company is being appropriately compensated. They are no different than the sim instructors coming back to do PCs. Just gotta get enough cadets into the LHS and then into training, then it’s all over. Writing is on the wall, and we are just too dumb to read it. Beaten by a bunch of bean counters with no imagination or originality... Aren’t CX pilots awesome? I’m so proud.

[Trafalgar]

Sorry boys, but I need to point out the abject stupidity of your comments. Firstly, the company has not offered any such deal. Secondly, the C and T pilots are all pilots and colleagues first. Knowing many of them as long time friends, I can safely assure you that they will not be bought off in a cynical and manipulative manner. In fact, many of them told PC a few weeks ago at a 'drinks' evening that they would be offended at any such attempt by the company. Most of the C and T members that I have spoken with are adamant that they will resign immediately if the company cuts housing or pension/leave etc. Most of them (like myself) have had a gut full of CX's appalling mismanagement. They are also aware that the company will be brought to it's knees upon a mass resignation. I don't know a single one of them who is willing to undermine their own living conditions just to endure as a C and T member. Not one. This management is blind and deaf to the outright contempt they are held in by all levels within the CX pilot community. Don't turn against your brothers and sisters. We are all on the same side, and you will need the good will of the C and T members soon enough. Together we can bring this appalling management down. Good riddance to AT and DP...and that is just for a start.

[cxorcist]

I sure hope you’re correct Trafalgar. History would not indicate that, but I’m not a defeatist. I would like nothing more than to look at our C&Ters with admiration for having saved the pilot group. I’m willing to do my part, but unless the HKAOA is going to get serious and down tools, then it is left to the C&Ters. Sorry boys, I’d prefer to simply stop showing up to work, collectively, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Trafalgar]

I hear you CX. I hope i'm right as well. All indications from conversations i've had the past few months indicate that there is a collective resolve to meet this management head on. The C and T members are not willing to be used as a manipulative tool against their 3000+ colleagues. I resigned, several others have as well, and most will do so soon. There is no dignity in life if you can't make a small sacrifice for your profession, friends and colleagues. I won't be used by this appalling management, and I don't believe any of my former C and T colleagues will either. If i'm wrong, then they can go to their own personal hell. I think they are made of better stuff than that, and I believe they will do the right thing. If not, then they will deserve the contempt and animosity that will fill their every remaining day in CX. Have hope. I believe we will see off this appalling and contemptible management, with the help of all the pilots. Make sure every one of you take action this holiday season. It's up to each and very one of us to play a part in fighting this attack on the value of our careers and profession.

[morningcoffee]

So if it’s a Monday we blame the A scalers, right at the beginning with their huge packages they let the rot start

If it’s a Tuesday we blame the B scalers, they put up a woeful fight and here we are now

If it’s a Wednesday we blame the C scalers, sure the industry has gone to crap and the CX option is still a good one but that’s irrelevant

If it’s a Thursday we blame the C&Ters, they could maybe bring the company to its knees, they’d probably get fired for it but the rest of us wouldn’t and that’s a sacrifice the rest of us are willing to take

If it’s a Friday we blame everyone who caved in in 1999, and since most of the GC weren’t around in 1999 we have to repeat the mistakes made then. Can anyone say lemmings, cliff

Whats left?

[Trafalgar]

MC, you are becoming tedious and predictable. So, your latest attempt to sow dissension is to try and turn pilot against pilot. Pathetic. The vast majority of us are united against the type of cretin you represent. And btw, as a former C and T, we always have the legal right to return to the line. Already confirmed by the labour court. C and T's resign every day (as I did recently), so don't try and throw the old 'you'll be fired' line. It fascinates me how you can't see just how close to the old Soviet and Nazi mindset your thinking represents. A legacy to be proud of. Don't try and intimidate any of us. The days of that having any effect are gone. Either we don't care, or we are already close to leaving. Either case, you and your kind are toothless and venal. Look at yourself in the mirror and try and recognise the creature you have become. At least the pilots can look at themselves in that same mirror and see someone who represents something noble, someone who contributes something positive to society. You, you aren't worth the air you breathe.

[Air Profit]

MorningCoffee. You sit in your office (cubicle) and try and wind up 3000+ educated, savvy and cynical pilots. Pilots who are sick to the teeth of the very thing you represent. Sick of it because we instinctively understand just how corrosive and toxic you and your kind are. Keep coming on here and making your sad attempts to divide us. Guess what, you are spitting into the wind. I, and most of my colleagues have already decided to leave for better employers. We don't care anymore. As a matter of fact, we take great pleasure in hurting you and your goals. You will be busy enough soon trying to keep the Government and public at bay when you have to explain why CX's operation is in pieces, with parked aircraft and no pilots. It's liberating when you just don't care anymore, and you already have another career planned. And btw, you will probably need to plan another career move yourself soon as well.

ps. one of my course partners is starting his new job Jan 8th. He told me that two other CX FO's were interviewing the same week as he. Apparently they have all been offered positions. The exodus gathers steam.

[Captain Dart]

His nom-de-guerre should be ‘Morning Kool-Ade’.

[Coconutruff]

And yet whilst reading your comments pleases me Trafalgar, I am dismally unconvinced that what you are saying is reality. Already in the last 2 weeks, a number of senior guys that I have flown with have already seemed to resign themselves to the fact that we are going to ‘get screwed again’ and that ‘its going to happen whether we like it or not’. I just can’t believe that there are so many pilots in this airline who remain so intimidated by this company’s past actions and are prepared to sit back and take the pineapple while others are trying to fight the worthy battle on their behalf.

I have flown for multiple airlines in the past 12 years and I can swear on my childrens lives that I have never met such a bunch of sell outs as I have in the last 5 years here. Seriously - we are in the throws of getting the biggest pineapple known to man after have been fed pineapple for the last however long and yet we still have pilots that show up to company organised functions (747 drinks most recently), we still have pilots that are putting their smug faces on company propaganda (latest cargo clan as an example) and there seems to be no roar, in fact not even so much as a mere squeak of defiance as to what is potentially approaching??

I mean seriously - the amount of guys that said if this company touch ARAPA they would be on the first flight out..... now all of a sudden they are saying ‘well we will just wait and see what they are going to offer’.

Its worse to watch than an abused woman going back to her wife beating husband time and time again because deep down she believes that he is only doing it because he really loves her.

I deeply hope that the masses in this airline will prove me wrong and I will gladly walk the line if it comes to that (which I am beginning to hope it will) - however the more I look around, the more disappointed, despondent and damn right pissed off I am starting to become.

[missingblade]

I was one of six who started together in ADL on a Sunday afternoon a few years ago. I am the only one still here....

[iceman50]

Trafalgar / AirProfit

Funny how it is always people you have talked to or know who are leaving and taking the advice you keep giving here. However, BOTH of you are still here. Reminds me of 1999 when we had the PILOT walks through TST, Airport terminal, Focus nights etc. People like you talk the TALK but NEVER WALK the WALK. Always wanting someone else to leave to make things better for you!
What a wasted few years post1999 were, money lost in offers not taken, 5% to support the casualties, with the usual suspects leaving the AOA so that they did not have to pay. All money LOST and NEVER recouped.

[Trafalgar]

Maybe you need to focus on the comment from 'missingblade', and stop worrying about a few old guys like me. The guts of the airline are leaving, no matter what I personally do. The only thing 'never recouped' will be the pilots this airline will lose to their corporate greed and stupidity.

[Trafalgar]

"The pessimist complains about the wind, the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts his sails". Most of the pilots at CX are now 'realists', and they are adjusting their sails. They are actively planning their escape to a better and happier career elsewhere. All the machinations of our management will result in nothing more than an empty shell of an airline. For that is all it will be when it has lost it's most committed employees. The fact of the matter is that they have already lost them in mind, and will soon lose them in body as well. There is an inevitability to the outcome, and the only people who don't see it are our management.