it for identification

[elcol]

Can someone please tell me what the pilot response required is to the ATC message "Transmit for identification-report heading" (understand the last bit!!)
Thanks

[chevvron]

What station have you heard that from? It's non standard RTF.

[spekesoftly]

Is it possible that this was heard on 121.5 - D&D trying to assist using autotriangulation?

[chevvron]

Is it possible that this was heard on 121.5 - D&D trying to assist using autotriangulation?

Good point, it does sound like it.

[elcol]

It's in PANS ATM DOC 4444.
Para 12.4.1 Identification of aircraft.
I'm a Comms instructor at BGS and a couple of students had the question in their ATPL IFR exam. I found the TX in 4444 but cannot find the expected pilot action and response.
Of the 4 options given these two "appear" to be relevant:
Report heading.
Press IDENT on the transponder and report heading.

[Il Duce]

Sounds like it should be "squawk ident and report heading".

[Doody2007]

If memory serves, in the military it was two turns of 30 degrees or more to ident using primary radar.

However, the df was displayed on the radar screen so, if you had a df trace go through a primary blip, you could get away with one turn rather than the two. Perhaps that it why you've had transmit for ident, report your heading? Just a guess.

Civvy Street is a little different. A single turn of 30 degrees is sufficient without the use of df.

[Talkdownman]

"Transmit for D/F"
"Mary had a little lamb..."

[Inverted81]

Very much sounds like a transmission for triangulation. As stated earlier, in the UK, likely only in common use by D&D on 121.5. I’m sure there isn’t a prescribed phrase, but a transmission long enough for the triangulation to occur would suffice. Even an extended “G-XX heading xxx degrees “ should be sufficient. For DF locating elsewhere, I would have thought the same principles apply

[elcol]

Here's the extract from PANS ATM Doc 4444
12.4.1 General ATS surveillance service phraseologies
Circumstances Phraseologies
12.4.1.1 IDENTIFICATION OF AIRCRAFT a) REPORT HEADING [AND FLIGHT LEVEL (or
ALTITUDE)];
b) FOR IDENTIFICATION TURN LEFT (or RIGHT) HEADING
(three digits);
c) TRANSMIT FOR IDENTIFICATION AND REPORT
HEADING;
d) RADAR CONTACT [position];
e) IDENTIFIED [position];
f) NOT IDENTIFIED [reason], [RESUME (or CONTINUE)
OWN NAVIGATION].

[iamanatc]

It can be done in the the area with no radar covering. If the atc unit is equipped with just ADF. Or if they have just primary radar + ADF.

[LookingForAJob]

You need to understand the procedure related to the phraseology. There are a variety of ways that an aircraft can be identified on radar. I suspect the relevant text, useful when using primary radar alone, is described in PANS-ATM as:
8.6.2.4.1 Where PSR is used for identification, aircraft may be identified by one or more of the following procedures:
...
d) by ascertaining the aircraft heading, if circumstances require, and following a period of track observation:
— instructing the pilot to execute one or more changes of heading of 30 degrees or more and correlating the movements of one particular radar position indication with the aircraft’s acknowledged execution of the
instructions given; or
— correlating the movements of a particular radar position indication with manoeuvres currently executed by an aircraft having so reported.
The next paragraph is also relevant.
8.6.2.4.2 Use may be made of direction-finding bearings to assist in identification of an aircraft. This method, however, shall not be used as the sole means of establishing identification, unless so prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority for particular cases under specified conditions.In the UK DF in this way is not authorised.

The different methods that can be used to achieve radar identification are not something that can be quickly summed up because there are lots of options. But if you heard this phraseology in the UK I don't think it is correct (except, of course, if it is used by D & D).

[elcol]

That's great. Thank you.