Proposed GA benchmark, miles per pound (a bit of fun)

[Genghis the Engineer]

So we all occasionally go from A to B by our selection of private aircraft. Question, what does it cost ?

The sum is, [(cost per hour) / (normal cruising speed) ] / 1.152 - which gives us cost per statute mile (and so comparable to Inland Revenue rates for car travel).



I'll kick off with my two...

(1) Raven-X, microlight. £20/hr all-in, 40 knot cruising speed, gives 43 pence per mile.

(2) Syndicated Piper Warrior, about £60/hr, 110 knot cruising speed, gives 47 pence per mile.

G

[bookworm]

What do we count as cost? Marginal cost or total (annualised) cost? I'd be a little surprised if the £60/hr was the total cost of flying a Warrior.

I can offer:

Mooney 201 @ 150 knots, 38p/mile marginal cost, total cost closer to 60p/mile.

[Whirlybird]

I don't want to even think about what the R22 costs! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[QDMQDMQDM]

Genghis,

You will cause multiple nervous breakdowns in aircraft owners if you force them to calculate the true cost per hour of operating their aircraft. ;)

QDM

[Romeo Romeo]

My little C150 works out at £50 (marginal) per hour at 90 knots which is 48p/mile, but over the year the total cost is more like £83 per hour which equals 80p/mile.

[FlyingForFun]

For my Europa:

Assume MoGas costs 73p/l
Assume 10l/hr@100kts
Cost/hr = £7.30 for fuel, plus £15 dry operating costs = £22.30

Using Genghis' formula, cost = 19.4p/statute mile

Or, if I fancy going a little faster:

Assume 15l/hr@125kts
Cost/hr = £10.95 for fuel, plus £15 dry operating costs = £25.95

Using Genghis' formula, cost = 18.0p/statute mile

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Is that right? Is it really cheaper for me to fly faster??? I re-checked the maths, and it seems it is! I tried to figure out why, and discovered that flying faster costs me an extra 1.46p/nm in fuel, but saves me 3p/nm in operating costs!

Cool!

FFF
-------------

(Edit to say that these number don't include the £50 monthly charges for things like hangar space and insurance.)

[QDMQDMQDM]

Edit to say that these number don't include the £50 monthly charges for things like hangar space and insurance.)

Yeah, exactly. ;)

Anyway, where do you get hangar space for £50 / month?!

QDM

[RotorHorn]

Whirly turn away now....

R22 SFH WET (not incl. VAT or Landing Fees)

135/80/1.152 = £1.47 (and dual is nearer £2.00)


R44 SFH WET (Not incl. VAT or landing fees)

275/100/1.152 = £2.39 (flying near Vne puts me under £2 )


:eek: :eek: :eek:


However, its cheaper if we're talking about getting from A to B and not just comparing straightline distances, e.g. getting from A (Blackpool) to B (Lake District) is

By car about 60 miles (M55/M6/A590). Takes an hour.
By R44 about 35 miles (as the crow flies). Takes 20 minutes.

Therefore, the theoretical cost of BPL->Winderemere is £83.65 (35 miles) for the R44 and not £143.40 (60 miles).

So roughly, the R44 is about 3 times more expensive than if you drove, but it takes only about a third of the time to get there - spooky!

Going to lie down in a corner know and weep for my bank balance... or lack thereof....

:(

[FlyingForFun]

QDM - I own a 1/6th share. Once you add in the contributions from the other 5 members of the group, it does cover the cost of the hangar space and insurance. As to whether or not we should be including these costs in the mileage cost of our aircraft - would you include the cost of insurance in working out a mileage cost of your car? Most people don't even include maintenance in the mileage cost of their car, they just look at fuel consumption figures.

FFF
-----------

[QDMQDMQDM]

As to whether or not we should be including these costs in the mileage cost of our aircraft - would you include the cost of insurance in working out a mileage cost of your car? Most people don't even include maintenance in the mileage cost of their car, they just look at fuel consumption figures.

FFF,

Agreed, but arguably one should do. If you write off car expenses against tax it does include such things as maintenance etc.

If you're going to realistically tot up a cost per flying hour it has to be more than simply fuel consumed, otherwise one is deceiving oneself. Not that I'm against self-deception, or anything -- if I didn't do it I wouldn't own an aircraft!

QDM

[Evo7]

Only problem with this is that it assumes you never taxi, hold etc.

I've just done a short navex, and dividing what it cost me by the distance covered comes out quite a bit higher than Genghis's formula, because one hour on the hobbs was only 45 minutes in the air.

[bcfc]

C172 - £48ph marginal @105Kt is 40p per mile. Bargain! :cool:

(...and don't worry about the monthy charges. Set up a direct debit for the beginning of the month and never check your bank statements - its not real money then :D )

[nonradio]

Jetranger £2.48 (all in cost) ; classic aeroplane 30p (marginal)
computate-ify seat cost per mile:
B206 only 47p per mile; classic 15p!
still not as good as a 747....

[Chilli Monster]

Ok - real figures for a PA28-161 Warrior II

Annual standing charges (Hangarage / Insurance et al): £4800

Annual utilisation: 100 hrs @ £50/hour

Total annual cost: £9800. Annual Mileage: 12096

Cost per mile = £0.81

And it's worth every penny :)

CM

[The man formerly known as]

Jodel D9,

80kts £10/hour, is that 10p/mile??

[IRRenewal]

Yet another advantage of fixed wing over rotary wing becomes clear: at least in a fixed wing there is a minimum speed you have to fly at.

In Genghis' formula, if speed goes to zero cost per mile goes to infinite. Still think it's devine to hover, Whirly?

Cheers

[bertiethebadger]

The cost per mile is dependant on how you pay. If you pay per hour, hit the throttle & get there as quick as you can. If you pay on the tacho, 65% power seems an economical place to be.

[javelin]

So - they reckon our DOC's for an A320 are about £2800 per hour, we cruise at 455kts so that gives £5.26 per mile BUT we have 180 punters, sorry, customers on board so that makes it 2.9p per mile. I win :D

[bertiethebadger]

LHR - EDI approx 350 miles direct.

350 x 2.9 = 1015 pence or £10.15

How much do the airlines charge?

[ianhogg]

Chevvron six litres of tescos finest unleded per hour at 50 kts with
£2.50 for the engine fund = £7.00 per hour for 50 miles admittedly in still air which is 14 pence per mile.It has its own trailer so no hangarage in the equation and surprise surprise they make them in britain(Membury actually).You can even top up
on the tan on route as the lexan canopy lets the uv through.I havn,t factored the cost of sunblock in though.
Pip Pip Ian.:cool: :cool:

[IRRenewal]

Although javelin does not fly a type that is commonly regarded as a GA aircraft, he does bring up a valid point.

Somehow you would have to include number of seats (or at least people carried) into the equation. Any ideas anybody?

Cheers

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Anybody considering headwinds? Whenever I fly, I find that Murphy's Law always gives me a headwind component (either that or there's a fault with my whizwheel!).

[Bouncy Landing]

So excluding monthly fixed costs, that makes 36.7p per mile in my C177 (group) aircraft. If I remember right, Inland Rev will allow 45p per mile if no other costs are claimed, for business mileage..... Guess how Im going to do my business trips?:D

Gengis Im a little surprised that you get 110 out of a Warrior, I used to find 100-105 more achieveable.

[Crossedcontrols]

Piper Supercub (90Hp)

Using average cruise at 85kts at £20per hour (mogas)

20p per mile of air.

Group share, so overheads not to painful.

But oh what fun it is flying all day and ending up where you started.

CC

[Genghis the Engineer]

110 is about the scheduled 75% power cruise for a Warrior. I'm lucky enough to share a very nice one with 16 others, hence the relatively low cost. Less shiny examples, probably won't do that.

Inland Revenue permit you 45ppm for the first 4000 miles per year, then 25 ppm thereafter.

My employer allows me to put in an Autoroute printout and claim 25ppm if I fly on business, which makes it all seem quite reasonable!

G

[Keef]

Arrow III - £100 per month = £1200pa.

Chip in about another £2000 every couple of years for FM immune or Mode S or whatever the latest JAA dream is.

Fly 50 hours a year, pay £65 an hour direct cost, so all-up £109 an hour, Cruises at 130 knots, so about 84p a nm. That's 73p a statute mile, which isn't so much more than the "official" mileage allowance for my car.

Worth every penny.

And the NEXT mile I fly only costs me 50p cos all the fixed charges have been paid already.

But who's counting?

[LowNSlow]

Mmm direct cost = fuel 4.5gph*4.54*.9 gbp/litre= 18.39
oil at 3.5 gbp / litre / 2 = 1.72
Total = 20.11 gbp/hour


Hangerage + Insurance + Annual + maintenance = 4000 gbp

I flew 40 hours last year so my hourly cost is 120 gbp / hour.

AAAAAARRRGGGHHH I KNEW I shouldn't have added it all up :eek:

So cost / mile = 120 / 90 mph = 1.33 gbp / mile.

DOUBLE AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH. :eek: :eek:

Repeat after me flying more makes it cheaper, flying more makes it cheaper..............

FNG have you had any more luck rounding up group members for the Argus yet ;)


But it is loads of fun and if the wunderplane is dirty when I go to the airfield it's cos that's how I left it last time :D :D

[Steve Morley]

How does it compare with a car? My S Type Jag (in me dreams) does about 15MPG. A 152, about 17, a 172 about 12. Me mate's Europa does about 40. What's the MPG of an R22?

[RotorHorn]

About the same as your Jag!!

fuel consumed at a rate of 8 USgals/hour.

Assuming 80 knots cruise

80Knots/ 8 US gals per hour
= 80 NM / 8 US gals
= 10NM/USgal
= 11.508statute miles/USgal
= 11.508miles/0.8 UKgals
= 14.39mpg


I think.....

Also an R44 is about 9.9mpg


:eek:

[LowNSlow]

Auster mpg = 90/4.5 = 20mpg.

Mmmm at least that bit's not to bad. ;)