Be aware of Korean air

[Upshitscreek]

Seems that a few are not taking advise from guys who actually work there already.
There was recently 2 guys who left half way through their training as they could not take this stupid culture , dumbness and ignorance , You will be ignored like you do not excist .


But that all said , the culture , the dumbness , breaking of contracts , messing around with off days ,Now messing with our travelling , flying your ass off up to 900 hrs...NOT including the other 300 hrs on that to get back and from home,The 4- 6 months training on lower pay and stuck in a hotel not allowed to go home, Line training from hell with someone who cannot fly to save his life or work the radio at least,Lack of help , assistance from agency , the lack of someone to go to for help for basic assistance ... its you agaist the koreans if they report you for a stupid reason no intervention from an expat or anything ..No chance of an increase ever, if you want to go somewhere else then your home base you have to use your tickets which you only get a handful of which was suppose to be for your family as you as the pilot are suppose to fly on a GD, they broke that now , some pilots who have american green cards ... they refuse to fly them home on a GD to Hawai and they are now on ID90 tickets and you only get a few and you have to pay in economy and you might not get to work then they will dock your pay at 500USD a day... its brutal
We have an AAR in the form of a small korean who hates expats ....
Its the worse company you can ever end up working for .. they will not renew you for small reasons which you will not even be made aware of.
The Koreans hate us as they want increases and they been fighting the company for 3 years now and its brutal towards expats.
THEN THE NORTH KOREAN ISSUE .. everyone is looking for another job , guys are leaving at a huge rate ...


well you decide ...:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Jack D]

I thought they had a reasonable reputation for sticking to the contracted terms and conditions ? ... Dumb ? I don’t know, different to your culture certainly . Better to join as a captain definitely.

[pfvspnf]

Please elaborate on the North Korean issue haha

[Jack330]

My best friend works there since 2015 after he left ek and he’s never had a single problem.
They’re one of the most serious company in terms of reliability and honoring the contract.
The culture is different and you must adapt just like in every other place.
Actually is one of the most attracting and best paid commuting contract.

[fatbus]

I know a few very close mates that have been there for up to 15+ years and have absolutely no problems. With more lining up to go!

[Jack330]

A lot lining up actually 😂😂

[pilotguy1222]

interesting that ALL 3 of the OP's posts have been about Korean.

[sealear]

Where the hell are you supposed to work anymore. Time to retire.

[Talparc]

In this context I had to repost this video:

https://www.captiongenerator.com/710932/Discovery-Airlines-Fleet-Newsletter

[Wingman82]

Korean is hiring now continuously since more than 8 years! Nonstop! And there is no real expansion, the fleet is more or less stable I think. That means the in and outflow of pilots is same like at Emirates for example. Those who are not happy and find something better leave.

[777AV8R]

I was on contract there for over 8 years. Absolutely the best contract I’ve ever had. There will always be detractors to anything that is good. This contract is all about mindset change. If you disagree with the LCP during line training, you already wrote your ticket out of the organization. Go there,do what you're told and don't ask a bunch of questions while training and you'll pass.

In those 8+ years, I never had days off violated, always rode business class and was treated with respect. You get out of this world, what you put in. Furthermore, I always had Christmas off, but in turn, never took time during Chusock (New Years).

[KippaLippa]

....and what exactly about Korean Air is pertinent to the middle east?

[fatbus]

Didn't you know ? The world revolves around EK pilots.

[Global_Global]

The culture is different and you must adapt just like in every other place.
Actually is one of the most attracting and best paid commuting contract. Agree... The only issues I had was:
-Matrasses in Korea are way too hard
-Culture between local Captain and local FO is ehhh interesting... you learn a lot about their culture from that and understand why they need expats

In short I liked the place, the people and the food and the contract was ok too. Beats EK anyday

[KippaLippa]

Didn't you know ? The world revolves around EK pilots.

you made my day.
danke!

KL

[ok45]

I was on contract there for over 8 years. Absolutely the best contract I’ve ever had. There will always be detractors to anything that is good. This contract is all about mindset change. If you disagree with the LCP during line training, you already wrote your ticket out of the organization. Go there,do what you're told and don't ask a bunch of questions while training and you'll pass.

In those 8+ years, I never had days off violated, always rode business class and was treated with respect. You get out of this world, what you put in. Furthermore, I always had Christmas off, but in turn, never took time during Chusock (New Years).


hi 777av8r, its refreshing to see such a mature answer in PPRUNE!

I’m considering joining Korean Air, I’m staying in one of their destination, can I request to fly a particular route more often than other?

Heard there is a way to “buy” more OFF days, is that true?

Thanks, again very nice to see such response from you!

[3holer]

Flew for them for 11 years and I had the same impressions as 777av8r. Do not try to change anything and go with the flow. Regarding your questions; 1. no, routes are assigned randomly, no bid system 2. the standard days off are 11 days plus 3 travelling days, occasionally you can request a few more days on a particular month, but you'd have to work more days subsequently.

[777AV8R]

Agree with 3holer. 'Go with the Flow' is certainly prudent. Still best commuting contract out there.

[motley flight crue]

Be aware of staying at EK!

[VORDME2]

Hotels quality is going down in Europe and USA, schedule is really heavy , salary didn’t change for the last 11 years! And restrictions when traveling for your holidays.
Ke really need to improve the package.

[motley flight crue]

As opposed to EK!!!!!!

[Emma Royds]

I suspect the interest in Korean from EK pilots will not be diminishing soon. Despite all the challenges that go hand in hand with working for Korean, the fact that there seems to be steady interest, means that the perceived positives still outweigh the perceived negatives for many at EK.

[italian stallion]

Any 737 skippers at Korean that could possibly pm me a roster for the last month or two please.
many thanks

[The Turtle]

Present 737 captains are being offered left seat in the 777, i know 2 gents who recently made the transition.

you don't want the 737 at Kal. A lot of challenging China and Korea domestic, 4 sector days

[italian stallion]

You mean a NTR DEC onto 777?

[The Turtle]

You mean a NTR DEC onto 777?

They were KE foreign 737 captains who transitioned to the 777....

as to their previous types and times I cannot say. I reckon they've been bonded somehow and/or purchased a 777 type as any NTR would ....

but it is being offered presently

[UB6IB9]

They were KE foreign 737 captains who transitioned to the 777....

as to their previous types and times I cannot say. I reckon they've been bonded somehow and/or purchased a 777 type as any NTR would ....

but it is being offered presently

You also need to be over the age of 40 to fly a widebody at Korean. They will not transition anyone unless they're 40 or older.

[flyaway777]

You also need to be over the age of 40 to fly a widebody at Korean. They will not transition anyone unless they're 40 or older.

Does that mean they won’t look at a DEC applicant under the age of 40, regardless of experience?

[Alloy]

As well as the 737 DEC being possibly the hardest job in the company (think China and domestics with lots of deadhead time and fresh FOs), it is also paid about $3K/month less than the 777, 747 and 380 positions, but is now the only way onto a wide body in KAL if you don’t have previous current widebofy experience (330 NTR expericed 320 positions are no longer available).

[777AV8R]

As well as the 737 DEC being possibly the hardest job in the company (think China and domestics with lots of deadhead time and fresh FOs), it is also paid about $3K/month less than the 777, 747 and 380 positions, but is now the only way onto a wide body in KAL if you don’t have previous current widebody experience (330 NTR experienced 320 positions are no longer available).
Actually then, nothing much has changed for the last 10 years. Most guys were stuck on the 737 and couldn't move across unless they went in to the audit department. Very few came across to the 777.
Don't have any misconceptions though, all of the fleets work hard. They get their money out of you. Also, the hotels were never great. However; I always got my days off, always flew business class, to and from base and never had my schedule changed. There was one exception and that was when a Captain fell ill, they called me if I would come in on my days off to cover the flight. I showed up, completed the flight back to ICN. They flew me home the next day and gave me an extra 9 days off!!!
I can't say too much about the Chinese contracts however; KAL was the best gig going. Always treated fair and well respected. Their equipment is THE best maintained in the world. It is a good operation.

[Alloy]

Correct, not much has greatly changed, including the salary, (there has been NO inflation increases for many years). One significant change is that the 330 is NOT a possibility to non 330 experienced pilots unlike before - they have 321s coming and need to crew them instead.

[puff m'call]

As we know, no airline is perfect but I have several friends at Korean and they are very happy with the roasters and the people they work with.

Treat other people as you wish to be treated, it normally works.

[me179]

Guys,
I'm an FO with 800 hrs on the 737NG, 1000 hrs jet total and 1250 hrs TT, I just fulfill the requirements for an FO position at KAL.

Do you recommend it for a western FO, or is it really like I hear: FOs only do the radios, must ask the captain's permission even for ordering a coffee from the cabin?

Do they upgrade foreigner FOs? How long does it take?

Thank You guys.

[pilotchute]

me179,

You are 1000 hours off even being eligible to apply.

[me179]

According to https://rishworthaviation.com/pilot-jobs/korean-air-b737ng-first-officers-2018-interviews-ref1831

I am :-)

[TwinJock]

Agree... The only issues I had was:
-Matrasses in Korea are way too hard
-Culture between local Captain and local FO is ehhh interesting... you learn a lot about their culture from that and understand why they need expats

In short I liked the place, the people and the food and the contract was ok too. Beats EK anyday

Some ex EK guys have pulled the plug and are returning to EK! Never heard of any ex Korean guys leaving EK to return to Korean.

[Emma Royds]

The trouble is that being an expat at Korean and being an expat at EK are two totally different jobs but I suspect some think that since they have adapted to the cultural melting pot that is EK, then they will easily adapt to Korean. This is sadly never going to be the case for all.

Having been an ex-pat at other companies prior to EK and where I was the minority in amongst a single majority based on nationality, I can see how some will simply just not be able to adapt to working at Korean, with all the nuances that go hand in hand with working there.

[fatbus]

It is a very small number of ex EK pilots returning from Korean . Not including those who failed I think it might be less than 2. Know several mates been at Korean for 15 + years and enjoy it . Take each EK and KE for what the are worth.

[VORDME2]

This is KAL’s idea of enhancing the package.

[falconeasydriver]

This is KAL’s idea of enhancing the package.

A bit more meat on the bone? e.g. huh?

[Milhas]

Hi guys, can you give some intel on screening process, medical, Korean ATPL , subsequent training? Maybe some monthly roster of 737? I'm B737 captain, 11,000 total, currently flying in Japan for Skymark exploring new options.

Thanks

[VORDME2]

[QUOTE=falconeasydriver;10377588]

A bit more meat on the bone? e.g. huh?I try to send the attachment again...

[Dogsofwar]

Can’t wait for my captains hat!

[777AV8R]

I worked there for 10 year on the 777. If you can get through the training (you have to understand the system), this is the best job on the planet.

[fdr]

I worked there for 10 year on the 777. If you can get through the training (you have to understand the system), this is the best job on the planet.


777AV8R knows of what he speaks. He added value to his next position as well in due course.

Korea is a unique country and people. The country itself is beautiful, and anyone immersing in the local area and culture will gain something from it. The language is interesting, and is quite enjoyable to learn, which will assist slightly, but is not otherwise needed. The airline engineering is remarkable; in 9,000 hours I had a single MEL for despatch. faults occur, but the engineers are the strength of the program.

The training program was and appears to remain, an ordeal. It is different, and not in a fun way. Anyone going there should consider it a rite of passage or an initiation ceremony to survive. It is not surprising, foreigners in any country are interlopers, and they are directly in the line of the rice bowl. If foreign pilots were brought into Delta or American, you would expect some friction, it is part of the reality of how humans behave.

Koreans as individuals can be incredibly generous. Don't lose your temper at any time, it is considered to be demeaning to you.

The contract was more or less always honoured, and generally activities are stable.

There are good people there, the locals and foreigners, and there have also been appalling foreigners and locals, it is a cross section of humanity.

Standard procedures are standard; There is good reason to be standard, and there is zero justification to not be standard. Foreign pilots from countries with strong individuality and propensity to ad-hoc, on the fly solutions are not tolerated there. Given the underlying language issues, it is paramount to be standardised,

Overall, it is a reasonable airline, but it is entirely dependent on the individuals temperament, consider it a mirror.

Getting involved in management is fraught with local politics, and results in confliction as often as not. Not impossible, but expect blowback.

good luck,

Overall, KE permits your family to stay home where they want to be, at the cost of your work demands. EK/EY is a lower stress environment to work, but you are in a sandpit. dealers choice, and good luck. As often as not, you will find the grass is greener next door due to some unpleasant realities that are discovered after you have jumped the fence. As you have a finite set of heartbeats, and ostensibly we are all working for our time with family, each person will have an optimal solution which may well be living in your own environment and enjoying your time with your family, in Europe, USA, Canada or wherever else. Both money and heartbeats get used up

[italian stallion]

Can anyone please pm me salary details for 737 Capt, it's one thing what an agency tells you but what's the reality?
and possibly even a roster or two please
Many thanks

[777AV8R]

Can anyone please pm me salary details for 737 Capt, it's one thing what an agency tells you but what's the reality?
and possibly even a roster or two please
Many thanks

Generally, 'What you see, is what you get' The per-diems are not that great. You will stay at the Hyatt ICN, which is owned by the airline owners.

[tgo15]

I heard you have to live in hyatt hotel. What about bringing my family there, do they provide housing ?

[SOPS]

I heard you have to live in hyatt hotel. What about bringing my family there, do they provide housing ?


i dont think you can bring your family.

[italian stallion]

Any recommendations regarding a reputable agency to use to apply to Korean?
Thanks in advance.

[777AV8R]

I heard you have to live in hyatt hotel. What about bringing my family there, do they provide housing ?

This is a commuting contract. Best on the planet. No need to have family there and there is no benefit unless you have another circumstance.

[777AV8R]

PM me for information

[motley flight crue]

Don’t use CCL

[FLY BY WIRE]

I’ve been using CCL to apply, and so far they’ve been very efficient.
The portal through which you load all your documents etc. Is very user friendly, and I’m told by the guys in the London office, it’s going to get even easier to use for future applicants.
FBW

[Emma Royds]

Any recommendations regarding a reputable agency to use to apply to Korean?
Thanks in advance.

The four I have heard of are Rishworth, CCL, Direct Personnel and TAS.

You will find good and bad stories for them all I suspect, as it's a very subjective matter and especially so if someone applies and doesn't get in. It's going to be largely down to personal preference. They say first impressions count so why not contact them all and take it from there.

[Python27]

Any recommendations regarding a reputable agency to use to apply to Korean?
Thanks in advance.


​​​​​​Heard many histories of all the brokers around. The only common opinion is about rishworse...

[italian stallion]

Thanks for the info guys, will be great to hear how your progress goes those who are applying.

[tgo15]

May i know what kind of documents they asked for joining korean air ? (Except the one is written)
and im curious , what about the meal, if we order some food at the hotel, is it on them ? Or is it from us (our diem) last one is, at the end.. how many days a month they give you , 9 or 11 or 12? I need to know the exact answer because my family are living on the other part of the world. Thanks

[tgo15]

what happen with ccl? What about gap & rish?

[777AV8R]

May i know what kind of documents they asked for joining korean air ? (Except the one is written)
and im curious , what about the meal, if we order some food at the hotel, is it on them ? Or is it from us (our diem) last one is, at the end.. how many days a month they give you , 9 or 11 or 12? I need to know the exact answer because my family are living on the other part of the world. Thanks


Nothing is for free, I'm afraid. You order food at the hotel...you pay. Actually, the per diems in ICN equal to nearly what you will spend for food while staying at the hotel. The company gives, the company takes. You won't make money on per diems. Days off are 9 blocked + 2 vacation (if you wish to take the vacation days), or you can save vacation days)

[The Turtle]

I have been "on the line" now for over a year, and my per diem contributions have averaged +1000 usd (that's a mix of won and usd)

I easily save 4000 usd a year off the per deim (which in my accounting pays my loss of income policy)

If you just eat at the hotels, as AVR said, maybe a few big nights in Korea, you will break even.

Personal choices, I guess

[AtoZ]

Not too surprisingly the allowances depend somewhat on what fleet you are on and roster but I about break even on the per diem.

[777AV8R]

Not too surprisingly the allowances depend somewhat on what fleet you are on and roster but I about break even on the per diem.
The owners have done the math. In ICN you get a per diem, the daily cost of food equals what you received in per diem. You get to eat for free but you will not make money. Same for HNL, LAX. The hotels are owned by KAL.

In in order to be fit to fly, you have to eat. Simple. Perdiems weren’t designed as extra pay incentives.

[Byobeer]

Morning,

Could someone please elaborate on the intricacies of "Getting Through the training" @ Korean as I'm looking at applying.

Many Thanks

BYO

[fatbus]

Lots of OIC!

[The Turtle]

1. Check your ego at the door. If you behave like a skygod then you will have trouble.

2. The training is more emotionally fatiguing than than work or study. It's 4 months away from your family. It can get lonely

3. Don't ask too many questions. You've already demonstrated you're a captain. To ask questions suggest doubt. They don't like that.

4. Even after you're assigned a groundschool, even after you've passed your Airlaw, Molit skills test, ATP ride, you can still cock-up training and go home. Act like a cadet until you pass your final line check

5. Positive attitude is everything. It can overcome small errors here.

6. Don't lose your cool. Lots of minor inconveniences here.... To blow your top shows immaturity and lack of self-control. It is the polar opposite of the middle east.

I'm sure others can elaborate but this is just my thoughts. Good luck

[Byobeer]

Many Thanks,

I can cope with all of that no problem. Small beans eh.

Appreciate your time.
BYO

[Vikingfly]

1. Check your ego at the door. If you behave like a skygod then you will have trouble.

2. The training is more emotionally fatiguing than than work or study. It's 4 months away from your family. It can get lonely

3. Don't ask too many questions. You've already demonstrated you're a captain. To ask questions suggest doubt. They don't like that.

4. Even after you're assigned a groundschool, even after you've passed your Airlaw, Molit skills test, ATP ride, you can still cock-up training and go home. Act like a cadet until you pass your final line check

5. Positive attitude is everything. It can overcome small errors here.

6. Don't lose your cool. Lots of minor inconveniences here.... To blow your top shows immaturity and lack of self-control. It is the polar opposite of the middle east.

I'm sure others can elaborate but this is just my thoughts. Good luck

So during the 4 months, do you have any chance to see your family at all or are you just stuck in ICN the whole time?

And is the 4 months for non-typerated guys? Is it shorter if you are typerated already?

[TwinJock]

So during the 4 months, do you have any chance to see your family at all or are you just stuck in ICN the whole time?

And is the 4 months for non-typerated guys? Is it shorter if you are typerated already?

Type rated means absolutely nothing - B748 mate has been on course for 5 months and have not completed his Koreanization.....

[AtoZ]

Firstly I think everyone has to turn up at KAL type rated.

Secondly the only difference is experience on type, the main difference is experienced on type joiners have four less sectors on OE/‘line training’ to complete.

[DALTA]

Type rated means absolutely nothing - B748 mate has been on course for 5 months and have not completed his Koreanization.....

I am not sure to understand what you mean, do you mean that even guys already type rated on the aircraft they are supposed to fly, will also do training for 5 months ? What are they doing for all this time ? I probably missed something somewhere !

Anyone have an idea of the 737 roster ? how many 4 sectors day per month ?

Thank you !

[Dogsofwar]

I am not sure to understand what you mean, do you mean that even guys already type rated on the aircraft they are supposed to fly, will also do training for 5 months ? What are they doing for all this time ? I probably missed something somewhere !

Anyone have an idea of the 737 roster ? how many 4 sectors day per month ?

Thank you !

What he means is you can expect to do a full course if you join KE. The regulator, MOLIT sets the requirements for expat courses and Korean air follow them to the letter, this means full ground course, crm, cbt, performance, dangerous goods, safety and security, fixed base and full motion sims blah blah blah and they will fill up the time, although at present course times on other fleets have been around the four month mark, you will not get home during that time but you can ask for an observation flight to you home city if it’s on there network and you may get lucky, that being said a recent 777 Capt did manage to get a home visit during training but I believe it was due to the fact that no checker was available for the release check for a period of time so permission was granted.
Word is that the requirement for a MOLIT examiner to be in the flight deck for line release check has been lifted and it is now being done in-house, it remains to be seen if that will be a good thing or not with many a candidate being passed by the examiner when the company LCP had wanted to fail them.
KE have just hired some 200 candidates directly from the airforce alone with a bunch of etihad 330 guys on secondment which will certainly increase pressure on the training department so one would expect course time to remain high.

[The Turtle]

I second what Dogs said....the time from arrival to line check completion is 4-5 months. It's a grind to be away for so long.

a few points to mention: I knew I was exhausted from the grind that was EK so I welcomed sleeping in the same time zone. After about 6 weeks I felt way better (the short term memory loss is permanent I'm afraid)

many had their family visit them, that's a welcome option. You are assigned the same room during your entire time of ground training so they can easily stay when you're at class or days off

lastly if possible don't do the course in the winter months. The days are sometimes long in class and with the significant loss of daylight hours in the winter it can add to the feeling of depression, at least for me the thought of starting out on the bus in the dark and finishing the day in the dark is something I'd avoid.

[DALTA]

What he means is you can expect to do a full course if you join KE. The regulator, MOLIT sets the requirements for expat courses and Korean air follow them to the letter, this means full ground course, crm, cbt, performance, dangerous goods, safety and security, fixed base and full motion sims blah blah blah and they will fill up the time, although at present course times on other fleets have been around the four month mark, you will not get home during that time but you can ask for an observation flight to you home city if it’s on there network and you may get lucky, that being said a recent 777 Capt did manage to get a home visit during training but I believe it was due to the fact that no checker was available for the release check for a period of time so permission was granted.
Word is that the requirement for a MOLIT examiner to be in the flight deck for line release check has been lifted and it is now being done in-house, it remains to be seen if that will be a good thing or not with many a candidate being passed by the examiner when the company LCP had wanted to fail them.
KE have just hired some 200 candidates directly from the airforce alone with a bunch of etihad 330 guys on secondment which will certainly increase pressure on the training department so one would expect course time to remain high.


Thanks for your replies guys !

[DALTA]

any thought on that ?

I love asia, i am single and no plan to get a wife nor kids. I have 2000 hrs on the 737NG and i am currently flying for Ryanair with 4 sectors days. I am not in a rush to get the upgrade and i can still move after few years in KAL.

How is the atmosphere in the cockpit ?
How is the interview process ? how many guys are successful ?

I would like to get a neutral advice please :)

Thanks a lot !

[DALTA]

Anyone ? :ok:

[badmannen]

Anyone ? :ok:
Just go for it , I mean just go for the interview and you probably get a good feel for it how you like it, no need to take the first option you get, a lot of companies hiring all over the place now so go and do a few assessments and then just decide . If you are already type-rated then it´s very little you gamble with if you decide to change later since normally the bond is very low. If you go in May I might join you there for ;)

[FLY BY WIRE]

With regard to the 9 or 11 days off per month, can you place these days anywhere in the month you like as a block, and therefore can you request them back to back, so over a two month period you could have a block of 18/22 days?

My second question to those that are there is, roughly how many days off per working block do you get?

Many thanks,

FBW

[The Turtle]

You can place them where ever you wish. You must submit your request the month prior to your current schedule month....ie, March request submitted by end of Jan

blocks of days off must be approved by your manager and you need a good reason for it

days off in icn depends on the fleet. Some fleets work a lot harder than others

[tomuchwork]

Well, it is Korea for gods sake. Of COURSE they are complicated, of course they do not like expats. But the expats actually safe their ass because they cant by themself as their culture does not allow them to be proper pilots. Korean in a nutshell.

Tried a very long time ago to join their outfit, thanks god they did not accept my application back in 2010. Had tons of hours on a A300-600 in command, their only reply was "he has no experience of any significance to our operation". Was upset a bit back then but I learned that it was most likely very good for me not being accepted. Very strange culture and airline. No wonder about their accident record.

From current posts - they are still searching right now? My god. A country like south Korea is not able to fill the slots of it's own lousy airline with own people speaks a very clear language. This is ongoing now for at least 10 years.

More and more glad to stick with my crappy european low cost operator before dealing with this mungos. Especially - what are they paying to a skipper this days in Korean? And this for 8 days off?

[dbrown76]

Well, it is Korea for gods sake. Of COURSE they are complicated, of course they do not like expats. But the expats actually safe their ass because they cant by themself as their culture does not allow them to be proper pilots. Korean in a nutshell.

Tried a very long time ago to join their outfit, thanks god they did not accept my application back in 2010. Had tons of hours on a A300-600 in command, their only reply was "he has no experience of any significance to our operation". Was upset a bit back then but I learned that it was most likely very good for me not being accepted. Very strange culture and airline. No wonder about their accident record.

From current posts - they are still searching right now? My god. A country like south Korea is not able to fill the slots of it's own lousy airline with own people speaks a very clear language. This is ongoing now for at least 10 years.

More and more glad to stick with my crappy european low cost operator before dealing with this mungos. Especially - what are they paying to a skipper this days in Korean? And this for 8 days off?

Yeah, you don't have a chip on your shoulder or anything...:rolleyes:

[Mgggpilot]

any thought on that ?

I love asia, i am single and no plan to get a wife nor kids. I have 2000 hrs on the 737NG and i am currently flying for Ryanair with 4 sectors days. I am not in a rush to get the upgrade and i can still move after few years in KAL.

How is the atmosphere in the cockpit ?
How is the interview process ? how many guys are successful ?

I would like to get a neutral advice please :)

Thanks a lot !
are you serious no plans to get a kid or wife?
Ooh dear let me stop here.
Good luck by the way.

[DALTA]

are you serious no plans to get a kid or wife?
Ooh dear let me stop here.
Good luck by the way.

Yes currently no plans to get a kid or wife, that's a personal choice, probably later on when i will be 35+ :ok:

I've sent a message to a FO who worked for them for 4 years on the 737NG. He is French and in his late 20's. I asked him what is his opinion and there is his anwser :

​​​​​​
Korean Air was for me, so far, the best airline experience. I’ve seen charter airlines flag carrier (KAL) and now low cost and I would, at all times, choose for flag carriers again. In my case, I needed the job at KAL because my company went bust. If you go to KAL, you have to realise that you may have the opportunity to go on longhaul, but you will NEVER be able to upgrade within KAL. You would have a 5 year contract and therefore no seniority as opposed to the Koreans who have permanent contracts. As the Korean culture is very different from my own, it took me about 1-1,5 years to realise what the hell they want from me, but after that I had a fantastic time. The advantage of the 737 fleet is that it is the “beginners fleet” for both the left and right seat, which means your captain who spent about 10-15 years as an FO on longhaul will most of the time just have finished with his upgrade. They are mostly young and in a new function, so most of the time they are very nice and open to suggestions. The key is how you communicate with them. Diplomacy is key. If you master this, you get pretty much whatever you want in this company. KAL is not a “raw data manual flight” kind of airline. They have a “no failure policy” with regards to their maintenance, which means you’ll always have a spotless (and clean) airplane. I can remember of only two MEL’s in 4 years. Also, we shut down the engines everytime with around 5-10 tons of fuel. KAL flies under FAR rules which means discretionary fuel is subject to a joint responsibility between the PIC and the dispatcher, . This means you’ll always get extremely conservative flight plans in terms of fuel. Training. It takes 5-8 months in which they don’t let you go home. These months are, for most, not perceived as funny. There is a life before final line check and one after that. It’s the life after training in KAL thats really nice. The roster. You have 6 “hard days” off, additionally you have 3 “soft days” off (which KAL would use to get you from home in case the Koreans would go on strike). Additionally you have 3 travel days. Also, you have 24 annual leave days which you can add to any of your off days. Then you have 10 sick leave days per year, which many make use of as well. Salary. On the 737, I earned 6500 USD per month tax free. South Korea has a tax agreement with many countries which enables you to avoid taxation. I addition, you’ll get per diems on an two accounts in a korean bank. One in Won for domestic flights, one in USD for Intl. flights. To conclude my story, if there would have been possibility or another to, one day, upgrade to captain, I would have stayed in KAL until retirement. This company doesn’t necessarly makes a lot of net profit (in fact except from 2017, they always made loss), but I think it’s safe to bet on the fact that, as long as the Korean flag is shown on their airplanes’ tail, they will not let it go bust.

[bia botal]

Any Commanders currently working there on the B777 that can shed light on how things are, and the failure rate?
read all above!

[badmannen]

Hi,
I'm currently flying the B737 in Europe for a low cost, commuting contract on 5-5. Working 5 days, 2 days commute, 3 days at home.
Flying a 50-50 4 sectors, 2 sectors.
I'm considering applying for DEC at KE on the 737, mostly to reduce my monthly commuting and spend more quality time at home.
One of the reason also is that I would like one day to move to a long haul fleet without going back on the right seat.

I have 2 questions
-Comparing to what I'm doing atm, how is the 737 roster and destination like ? We'll it be kind of similar to what I have now? Lot of 4 sectors, small airport with no procedures,...
-Will I have a chance one day to move to the 777? Absolutely no rush, I'm not the kind of person who change company every 2 years so I will have no problem with a wait of even 8 years let's say..

Any recent infos on the 737 roster, salary, will be appreciate.

Oliver
Internet is good tool . use it =D

here you go Oliver, here you see all the routes on KAL with 737
https://www.flightsfrom.com/ICN/destinations?airlines=KE&aircrafts=737

PM. me if you would like a roster example for the fleet

[badmannen]

small update if anyone is interested.

I do not pretend to know how it actually is to work in KAL. but I went to the interview process recently,
Everything is very well organised and no surprises,

Currently there are more or less 100 cpts from Emirates applying to KAL for various reasons , I don´t say that is any indication of that Emirates is not good or that KAL is better, Everyone have their own reasons for changing company but it is just a fact as of today.

All info you can get from the various agencies that are you can apply through seems to mostly accurate regarding .,, roster , salary, commuting etc.
They are all very friendly and if you go there you better adjust to their way of doing the things, (just like in any company you will join anywhere )

Any if anyone is interesting to have a look at it it takes about 4 days to go until you are back again, once day for each test is the normal, Psychology test, Simulator, medical tests and the interview. You travel back and forth in confirmed Business class so it is a very nice and relaxed experience all together.

[lucky_strike]

Hi Badmanen

Can you please share about the questions asked in the interview and about the psychometric test what it is exactly ?

Also so if you have time to shed some light on the medical tests and sim profile it would be even better.

If you can pm me the 737 roster too it will be much appreciated.

Thanks a a ton in advance

[badmannen]

Hi Badmanen

Can you please share about the questions asked in the interview and about the psychometric test what it is exactly ?

Also so if you have time to shed some light on the medical tests and sim profile it would be even better.

If you can pm me the 737 roster too it will be much appreciated.

Thanks a a ton in advance

Hey lucky_strike I would suggest you to just contact any agency of interest , they will provide you with the most up to date information of what you are asking . they do not bite :)

[Miks737]

Hi Jack, I’m considering the 737 captain vacancy in Korean. You mentioned your best friend worked 8 years with them. May I request some more information please? Maybe better still, his email address after checking with him. Thanks

[tgo15]

hello guys,
any expat pilots who used to work in China before joining KAL?
if yes please PM me.

[tomuchwork]

I don't know. Had a read throught the last page of 737 drivers going(or thinking about) joining KAL. Now, some of them are obviously RYR(easy to pick really), now, I thought joining them(KAL) on the 737 by myself, contacted an agency, got a nice answer. JUST - the figures are just not right. More or less I would earn LESS(yes, not a mistake) then I do currently in RYR in my prefered base on a RYR contract. So, I thought to myself, why the hell would I go on a KAL contract(which is not KAL but some agency) to earn less and be away from Europe and home.

Now, there was this 5/5 guy, obviously a contractor for RYR making a S**tload of money on that and complaining about commuting. Well, go 13/5 then. Do you think you will not commute on a KAL contract(on significantly less money you make on a 5/5 agency if I make already more on 5/4 RYR)?

Get you facts straight. I understand the urge to leave(I was young once by myself and preferd to shoot out of "the hip" instead of thinking through things. But hell - leaving RYR for KAL. My god. Not a chance. To many improvements here and to less of the same in Korea. Plus a long commute(don't care if it is "Gold" class, still have to deal with annoying security every month, immigrations, sit in a bloody tube for hours to go home. Instead here I go to the airport, have a quick walk through security(you need to choose your country and base wisely in RYR), fly my 4 sectors, go home. More flying for sure, minimum same money, plus retirement, plus social. And then there is Korean. Hard choice.

[Jetstreamer737]

small update if anyone is interested.

I do not pretend to know how it actually is to work in KAL. but I went to the interview process recently,
Everything is very well organised and no surprises,

Currently there are more or less 100 cpts from Emirates applying to KAL for various reasons , I don´t say that is any indication of that Emirates is not good or that KAL is better, Everyone have their own reasons for changing company but it is just a fact as of today.

All info you can get from the various agencies that are you can apply through seems to mostly accurate regarding .,, roster , salary, commuting etc.
They are all very friendly and if you go there you better adjust to their way of doing the things, (just like in any company you will join anywhere )

Any if anyone is interesting to have a look at it it takes about 4 days to go until you are back again, once day for each test is the normal, Psychology test, Simulator, medical tests and the interview. You travel back and forth in confirmed Business class so it is a very nice and relaxed experience all together.


Can I check which agency you went with? The Emirates Cpts - 777 or 380 mostly?

[bringbackthe80s]

Just ALWAYS remember any advise is as good as the person giving it.

Just with reference to some of the comments above.
If I were in your position I would only listen to people who ACTUALLY flew both in Asia and Europe (not someone who’s only seen london and malaga), do anything with an open mind, and you’ll enjoy if you choose to change.

The money for a captain is similar at all decent airlines (I stress decent, both for too much money or very little money) so salary should have little meaning in your decision making.

[Emma Royds]

CCL were in the UAE last week. Steady recruitment for the 777 for the foreseeable future. Not sure about the A380 though.

What is of interest is the demographics of those applying from EK has changed. More younger Captains are applying with the average length of service at EK reducing in years too. Make of that what you will.

[motley flight crue]

Korean have been steadily recruiting since the late 80’s, read into that as you will.

[The Dominican]

So has Air Japan been on a constant hiring cycle, you can't judge these gigs for that reason alone. There is a simple fact about all these expat gigs and it is the fact that there are no better options back home for us because of age, marital status, economic reasons and so forth, all these expat gigs fill a gap, they are not ideal by far nor this was the career we envisioned for ourselves when we started flying!
Both Korean and Air Japan have the best commuting conditions of any other expat gig out there so for people that want to escape the sandbox or are tired of the ridiculous nonsense that is China, then they become a choice but only as default and certainly NOT because they are your ideal choice for a retirement job; Both of them come plagued with cultural implications that can be from annoying to just plain stupid, and in both cases the local pilots believe that it is good airmanship, they are convinced of that and if you don't conform that will make your life in those two companies very hard indeed!
Do people make it work? Sure, I've been at Air Japan for 13 years but if there was a chance back home, even for a lot less money, I wouldn't put up with the ridiculous stupidity that is training in Asia!

It might work for you until it doesn't, it is that simple! And it doesn't matter one bit if it is contract or direct employment, you work for them until it no longer works for them, they have many ways to make it unbearable enough for you that you will do the dirty work for them and leave!

[bringbackthe80s]

Absolutely agree.
It’s all about how you want to live your life, and if you see these expats jobs as a means to experience new places and environments then we can agree that our generation has many opportunities that would have been unthinkable decades ago. Yes, there will be a lot of head nodding and many, many times you’ll be wondering if they’re seriously asking you to do what they’re asking you to do.
On the flip side, in many of these countries you’ll be treated with most respect and professionalism and not like a high school kid, given much much time for training, and enjoy probably the best mantainance and airport ops you’ll ever see.

If you’re someone who thinks mostly about pension contributions and the next holiday with extended family, then I strongly suggest to stay home or very close to home.

Would I advise a young copilot to come to Asia? Absolutely not.
But if you’re an experienced captain with years or decades of good training, then flying as an expat will expose you to many new situations and will eventually make you a better pilot than someone who spent the last 20 years in the same environment, but most importantly will make you a better and more flexible person.

[ironbutt57]

change the name of the thread to "Beware of Aviation" and be done with it....L.O.B.

[md-100]

Anyone hired in last months here?

[nolimitholdem]

I get spammed with contract jobs on LinkedIn all the time, idly picking through the latest KAL offering it seemed they've reduced the package from 10 days to 9 - is that correct?

Benefits

11 consecutive days off at home each month (9 days off + 2 annual leave days) + an additional 2-3 travel days
I always thought it was 10 days (+2 annual leave days, + 2 travel days).

If that's the case I would think reducing your T & C by 10% isn't a great strategy to stoke interest lol.

Much better options in Vietnam these days in pay and roster, not to mention culture - if commuting's your thing.

[md-100]

Much better options in Vietnam these days in pay and roster, not to mention culture - if commuting's your thing.

which airline?

[ok45]

Hi,

I was trying to apply to Korean and noticed that there is a minimum age requirement for captains.
CCL said captains must be over 40 years old while Rishworth said over 38.
Anyone has more information regarding this requirement? Is it company or aviation authority requirement? anyone knows if there is anyone below that age working for Korean as a captain?

[Climb150]

Captain over 40 and FO under 45. You cant make this stuff up.

[md-100]

Any 737 roster out there to share?

[Ichabod Queen]

Do I need to be a citizen to be able to fly at Korean air??

[kwaiyai]

No mention of that unless its something very new.

Just google Korean Air DEC recruitment,

[The Turtle]

No. You do get a work visa

[lmiguel]

Hi aviators , let me kindly do 2 Questions:
- I am B737 - PIC hours 2k+ ,34 years old , no way to join KAL 737 fleet DEC If qualified but below 40 years old !?

- any idea about how long to wait as DEC 737 till Be oferecer long haul ?

many thank for your feedback
regards

[The Turtle]

as of today there is no recruitment on the 737. you can verify this with CCL

latest is the 787 and 777 will be common crewed if the chairman gets his wishes. (up to government approval)

[4runner]

Captain over 40 and FO under 45. You cant make this stuff up.

it probably keeps out the midlife, career change FO’s that think they’re extremely clever and carry a chip on their shoulder. I imagine this is based on a long history of contract pilots, both good and bad. My previous airline had an unofficial policy similar to this as well as a reference for certain nationalities and an allergy to others. Before you shout or stereotype, my previous airline was african. The blacklisted nationalities were western in origin.