American Airline plane catches fire on runway at Chek Lap Kok

[torquemada60]

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/images/instant_news/20171009/2017100918593597822contentPhoto1.jpg

An American Airline plane caught fire at Hong Kong International Airport today. One worker injured
Looking at this photo it appears the pallet caught fire not the airplane as the newspapers headline claim.

[AndoniP]

The aircraft or its' cargo? From the photo it looks like the latter or am I missing something?

[torquemada60]

Yes you are right. Headlines made it sound like the plane caught fire. Glad this did not happen at 40,000 feet.

[Daysleeper]

Extensive photos and videos here (http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20171009/mobile/bkn-20171009175001327-1009_00822_001.html) (in Chinese)

Unclear if it started in the loading machine or the cargo, either way round the aircraft is u/s for a while.

[atakacs]

Indeed pretty scary.

Suprised that the fire could develop to that extent without being attended by fire services. But I admittedly don't know all the specifics.

[cooperplace]

be interesting to know what was in that pallet!

[gearlever]

Lithium-ion batteries?

Again?

[fireflybob]

"On the runway"?

Looks more like the ramp/apron to me!

[torquemada60]

Yes. Again shows you how journalists write nowadays...:rolleyes:

[mh370rip]

From the Daily Star (can't post full URL)
/news/world-news/650933/Hong-Kong-airport-fire-American-Airlines-plane-cargo

The spokesman said: "An external piece of loading equipment had a mechanical issue and caught fire while preparing to put cargo in the hold of American Airlines flight 192 from Hong Kong (HKG) to Los Angeles (LAX).

"As a result, a pallet on the loading equipment containing non-hazardous goods also caught fire."


Perhaps not Li-ion batteries after all.

[lomapaseo]

What was the response time for the equipment to arrive?

[atakacs]

The spokesman said: "An external piece of loading equipment had a mechanical issue and caught fire while preparing to put cargo in the hold of American Airlines flight 192 from Hong Kong (HKG) to Los Angeles (LAX).

Well if this was indeed induced by a failure of the loading gear the firefighting response time seems very questionable.

I can imagine a fire breaking out inside the pallet and not being detected until it growths into a serious hazard. But this doesn't look good...

[Heathrow Harry]

must have gone up fast - the loading guys are still standing/sitting right next to it.............

[number0009]

Loader and other GSE does occasionally malfunction/leak and catch fire. Appears the pallet was stacked boxes of dry goods that world burn quickly once set a fire.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Defiteley looks like it started underneath the pallet.Never seen that before. Always thought the netting was fire-proof.

[DIBO]

Lucky (?) escape for one cargo handler
Xt8ZS53FyGI

[lomapaseo]

Could have been a rapid ox fire like a battery at the front bottom corner inside the pallet. Check for high intensity burning particles falling to the ground.

[springbok449]

Lucky it happened on the ground...

[number0009]

Always thought the netting was fire-proof.Cargo nets are not fire proof.

Flames may have begun below the pallet as suggested then likely snaked their way to and over the edge of pallet catching the plastic wrap and cardboard boxes on fire. There's a good photo towards the bottom in the earlier link that may help your understanding of how cargo is palletized.

[Metro man]

I bet that set the cargo hold smoke detectors off. A lot of pilots assume a warning during loading is the result of spraying the hold or exhaust times from the equipment.

[aterpster]

The pilots may not have been on the airplane.

[llondel]

I assume the guy that dropped from height was the one up top supervising the loading. Must have gotten rather warm rather quickly where he was, and I don't think there's any other way down from there. Interesting question for the Safely Elf to ponder because that could happen anywhere.

[atakacs]

Well it would seem that I am the only one uncomfortable with the fire services response time. Guess I have the lower my expectations on that front...

[DmitriD]

It is a long way down from up there. Spent many years loading wide bodies and those high loaders take a lot of strain. I would not be surprised if it was a hydraulic hose that came loose, but that is purely a guess on my part

[Bleve]

Well it would seem that I am the only one uncomfortable with the fire services response time. Guess I have the lower my expectations on that front...

We'll that depends upon when the fire services were notified. Maybe the delay was in reporting the fire.

[atakacs]

That's a fair point. Does ground staff have access to ground radio?

[No Fly Zone]

I have no idea what was on that cargo pallet, but sure wanted to burn. Another big loaf of Li Io batteries?/ We don't know.

With the horrible history of these things, ship them by sea - and even then, with extreme precautions, I do not want them as cargo on MY pax FLIGHT, EVER.

[number0009]

I don't think there's any other way down from there. Interesting question for the Safely Elf to ponder because that could happen anywhere.There is extendable ladder (yellow in photo) built into the fwd side of the cargo loader to access the upper platform. Loader controls/operator would normally be there. When a loader or aircraft load systems are not working 100% there may be more than on worker on the upper platform assisting. Negotiating their way down quickly during a fire event could have led to a fall.

[RAT 5]

must have gone up fast - the loading guys are still standing/sitting right next to it........

I was wondering something similar. That would suggest a long WTF startle factor moment, or.......it's n to my job. In all major airports I've bene to those little tow buggy thingies all had fire-extinguishers on them/ I assume there low-loader also. If so I would expect the operators to have been trained to use them, but no-one seems to be 'jumping to it.' More training, Captain Mannering.

[Terry McCassey]

"On the runway"?

Looks more like the ramp/apron to me!

fireflybob ; good job it was on the "tarmac" else me might be looking at a "hull loss" !

[Exup]

No chance of lithium batteries on your pax flight in cargo as they are forbidden for carriage on pax flights, lots of plastic & carboard on most pallets so that's what is probably causing most of the fire.

[Una Due Tfc]

Didn't something similar happen under an Aer Lingus A330 in MCO lost year? Hydralic line ruptured on the loader, fluid ignited? IIRC 2 ground handlers suffered absolutely horrific burns in that one...

[tonytales]

It would be revealing to find out how much fire training ramp service people get. Probably none at all. Fire extinguishers on ground vehicles may be there but without training might as well not be.

[Webby737]

Didn't something similar happen under an Aer Lingus A330 in MCO lost year? Hydralic line ruptured on the loader, fluid ignited? IIRC 2 ground handlers suffered absolutely horrific burns in that one...

Yes it did, not only did the ground handlers suffer horrific burns I believe one also broke his leg (or legs!) jumping from the aft cargo bay.

[EDLB]

Hard to watch how the colleagues dragged the poor guy with probably broken legs over the tarmac to a location under the wing. The other bystanders did not seem to be concerned at all. With such a fire the place under the wing would be the worst place to be. What will those guys do in a more demanding emergency?

[autoflight]

Loading equipment appears to be maintained to a low standard, but will we ever know if that contributed to this fire?

[lomapaseo]

Hard to watch how the colleagues dragged the poor guy with probably broken legs over the tarmac to a location under the wing. The other bystanders did not seem to be concerned at all. With such a fire the place under the wing would be the worst place to be. What will those guys do in a more demanding emergency?

That is exactly the safest place to be in the initial minutes when you expect emergency vehicles to arrive to knock the fire down.

I have been out in the middle of JFK field in my own personal car (no radio) attending to a B747 freighter emergency that was sitting on 16 flat tires. With all the plane traffic around me I decided to just park my car under a wing to be sure I was not interfering in traffic

[crippen]

UDT post 32

Saw a digger trying to move straw bales that were on fire. Burst a pipe. The resulting flame thrower had to be seen to be believed.

[Roto1711]

We'll that depends upon when the fire services were notified. Maybe the delay was in reporting the fire.

All ground crew vehicles have fire extinguishers, one would think someone would try to use one!

[Cafe City]

No chance of lithium batteries on your pax flight in cargo as they are forbidden for carriage on pax flights,


You have surprising faith, particularly in this Region.
"Forbidden" means jack sxxt here.

[Musician]

All ground crew vehicles have fire extinguishers, one would think someone would try to use one!
That is assuming you could reach the fire with it -- the height seems to make that a futile effort from the outset.

[surely not]

GSE maintenance at most Ground Handlers is not done on a wait until it breaks basis, there is preventative maintenance carried out. Each type will have a schedule for being taken to the workshops to be checked over and have items such as hoses replaced. That said, the Hi Loaders in particular can suffer split hoses due to the nature of their work and the climate they operate in.

All servicing of GSE is recorded and it is an area that is audited by the airlines when they carry out their GHA audit, including things like serviced fire extinguishers in each ramp vehicle. A lot of Airport authorities also audit the GHA's to ensure that incidents like this are a rarity. Obviously some audits are more thorough than others, but I would like to think that a major carrier such as American Airlines performs decent audits.

At the major airports I have worked at it was a requirement for all ramp staff to receive fire training, and recurrency training bi-annually. In that training will be an instruction to call the emergency services and advice not to try to be a hero. Stands usually have a dedicated emergency phone or failing that a landline phone to call from, plus there will be ramp staff with radio contact to their offices who can get the office staff to call the emergency services if needed.

As already mentioned, the height above ground of this fire is probably the major factor as to why the fire bottles in the vehicles, and the fire equipment at the head of stand, wasn't used.

[ThreeThreeMike]

Loading equipment appears to be maintained to a low standard, but will we ever know if that contributed to this fire?

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[Brookmans Park]

I was hiding behind a G&T in the CX bridge lounge which gave me a good view of the port side of AA when about 6 fire vehicles and an ambulance arrived from my position it appeared that they sprayed the APU tailpipe,clearly not the case.
Some appliances remained on scene for at least 5 hours

[llondel]

At the major airports I have worked at it was a requirement for all ramp staff to receive fire training, and recurrency training bi-annually. In that training will be an instruction to call the emergency services and advice not to try to be a hero. Stands usually have a dedicated emergency phone or failing that a landline phone to call from, plus there will be ramp staff with radio contact to their offices who can get the office staff to call the emergency services if needed.

As already mentioned, the height above ground of this fire is probably the major factor as to why the fire bottles in the vehicles, and the fire equipment at the head of stand, wasn't used.

It may well be that they looked at how quickly it was taking hold and realised that their little extinguishers were already outclassed.