Loganair-2

[Rob Royston]

You're right there. It can be all over the place. If you look up the past history of LM477 for last Monday it shows the destination as Inverness even on the playback of the flight going to Glasgow. Yesterday it does the same. I'll let you know if the article appears in next weeks printed paper, I don't see it till Friday

[BAladdy]

Loganair are planning to replace the SF3 currently used to operate from DND to STN with a D38 from 01APR19.

[southside bobby]

Right-o...& was of course Do328 operated before the SF3 took over the service.

[Rutan16]

FR24 is generally accurate however does get confused with alpha numeric call signs and flight numbers quite often

[Rob Royston]

FR24 is generally accurate however does get confused with alpha numeric call signs and flight numbers quite often
That seems to be the case at some airports. I was looking for the SYY-GLA flight BM477 last night as it was the return leg of the first flight by G-SAJC. Working from the map it said the flight went to INV. There was nothing showing on the GLA arrivals list and still isn't. I had a look at INV arrivals later and this showed on flight information / playback that it was diverted to Glasgow. On playback it seems the flight information comes from the aircraft and is correct. The incorrect destination data is still shown in the header of playback and on the flight history spreadsheet.
I wonder where this data is input or collected. The pre-loaded data on the spreadsheet is correct, it only goes wrong when the flight takes off.

[BAladdy]

LM have so far added 1 ER3 and 1 ER4 transferred from BM to there fleet. LM are planning to have 2 x ER3’s based a NWI and a ER4 at GLA and INV from the start of the S19 schedule (31MAR19).

Was wondering if there is any update on when the remaining ER3 and ER4 are planned to be transferred from BM?

[Rob Royston]

G-SAJC has done the GLA-SYY flight LM476 today. It does not appear to have been out since the same flight on Monday last. An SF34 did two of the flights and an SB20 did yesterday's plus all the evening flights that the jet was pencilled in for.
The article featured on the Stornoway Gazette website did not appear in this weeks printed paper either, so it's hard to say whether last Monday was the inaugural flight or if there was another flight the previous Monday, 7th Jan.

[CKT789]

https://www.loganair.co.uk/contact-3/press/

Loganair statement on BMI Regional closure.

[goldeneye]

Do wonder if LM will take on any of the ex BM routes.

Aberdeen to Esbjerg has been operated for years, was this an oil and gas related service ?

[toledoashley]

From Loganair: We can confirm that the following routes will be operated by Loganair from the 4th March to ensure continuity for businesses and communities;
Aberdeen-Bristol
Aberdeen-Oslo
Aberdeen-Esbjerg

[Wycombe]

Noted from within statement concerning flybmi:

"monitoring developments elsewhere in the UK regional airline sector which could present opportunities for Loganair.”

...or in other words, waiting to see what can be sensibly picked-up when the inevitable rationalisation of Flybe's route network takes effect (using some ERJ's that may now have become available)

That's assuming there is still a Flybe, and I guess if not their statement still applies.

[davidjohnson6]

From Loganair: We can confirm that the following routes will be operated by Loganair from the 4th March to ensure continuity for businesses and communities;
Aberdeen-Bristol
Aberdeen-Oslo
Aberdeen-Esbjerg

There are reports saying DAT will start a Aberdeen-Esbjerg route shortly. I doubt there is room for 2 competing airlines on this route

[CabinCrewe]

Agree, no room for two. Interesting LM move so quickly and bookable... was this pre-planned one wonders...🤔

[mmeteesside]

Certainly looks like it almost fits together as one aircraft, albeit with an odd nightstop in Bristol on a Sunday night. Potential swap of aircraft from other routes (Airbus contract?) I wonder

[Richard Taylor]

Will be good to see an enhanced presence from LOG at ABZ. Always the same - the demise of one always leads to potential opportunities for another. Quite surprised they are going up against SAS on OSL though - they must think demand is there, or they are confident the likes of Statoil (or whatever they are called now I think their name has changed!), will be taking seats.

[LesPretend]

Noted from within statement concerning flybmi:



...or in other words, waiting to see what can be sensibly picked-up when the inevitable rationalisation of Flybe's route network takes effect (using some ERJ's that may now have become available)

That's assuming there is still a Flybe, and I guess if not their statement still applies.

Or when Bristow gets fed up of loosing roughly £50k A DAY on Eastern (according to their latest Quarterly earnings)

[LBIA]

Loganair now announced its to take over the ex bmi routes from Newcastle to both Brussels and Stavanger starting from March 25th 2019

[garry8g]

Loganair now announced its to take over the ex bmi routes from Newcastle to both Brussels and Stavanger starting from March 25th 2019

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/transport/loganair-steps-in-to-secure-two-european-routes-from-newcastle-airport-after-flybmi-collapse-1-9600162

[mmeteesside]

E145 SAJC positioned into Chester to operate Airbus flights from tomorrow presumably. ATR42 leased from DOT to cover at Glasgow

[gghdev]

I think it’s time Loganair dropped the “Scotland’s airline” tagline. It’s parochial, and they’re now serving a wider customer base. Good to see them growing, though!

[Flightrider]

They did have it all the way through the 80s and 90s as the largest airline operator at Manchester flying to Southampton, Belfast City, Knock and the Channel Islands and the likes of Southampton to Brussels.

Is it not part of the brand and identity? I don’t recall anyone suggesting Aer Lingus drop the shamrock when they were flying Gatwick to Bucharest or that LOT should drop its suffix given its expansion at Budapest. Don’t see the issue myself.

[gghdev]

I don’t have any issue with their new tartan branding, certainly. It looks good. “Scotland’s airline” as a tagline, though, seems to underplay their position, and to a degree Scotland’s too.

[sinbad73]

I think it’s time Loganair dropped the “Scotland’s airline” tagline. It’s parochial, and they’re now serving a wider customer base. Good to see them growing, though!

This argument is a non-starter. 'British' (London) Airways?!

[virginblue]

I think it’s time Loganair dropped the “Scotland’s airline” tagline. It’s parochial, and they’re now serving a wider customer base. Good to see them growing, though!

Better not. Any time in their almost 60 years history when they had spells of grandeur and wanted to play with the big boys they got a bloodied nose and were on the brink of collapse. Think of Loganair 146s etc.

[gghdev]

----------

[davidjohnson6]

Seems Loganair won't have everything their way at Aberdeen - DAT are to launch Aberdeen-Esbjerg on 25 February (a week before Loganair) at slightly different flight times

[Asturias56]

Just what the world needs - two services from ABZ - Esbjerg - this is ridiculous

[Richard Taylor]

Can't help but think Loganair & DAT should get together & work something out on ABZ-EBJ. I agree unless timings are totally different that there isn't the numbers to justify competing services, otherwise we would have had it by now.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone were Loganair are getting the ER4 aircraft to operate the 5 ex bmi routes?. Are more former BM aircraft going to be transferred to LM?.

[Richard Taylor]

Well there's at least one in BRS - just need to pay a bill...…… :O

[BAladdy]

Looks like LM are planning to use 2 ER4’s to operate flights from ABZ. However there are some gaps in the schedule. Based on the current schedule loaded the 2 aircraft will operate:
Aircraft 1
Monday

07:30 BRS-ABZ 08:55
09:30 ABZ-OSL-ABZ 13:25
14:15 ABZ-BRS-ABZ 17:25
18:05 ABZ-BRS-ABZ 21:30

Tuesday to Friday

13:40 ABZ-OSL-ABZ 17:35
18:05 ABZ-BRS-ABZ 21:30

Sunday

13:40 ABZ-OSL-ABZ 17:35
18:05 ABZ-BRS 19:25


Aircraft 2
Monday to Friday

10:20 ABZ-EBJ-ABZ 13:40

Are Loganair really going to have one ER4 operating just to ABZ-EBJ-ABZ?.

[Fly757X]

Looks like LM are planning to use 2 ER4’s to operate flights from ABZ. However there are some gaps in the schedule. Based on the current schedule loaded the 2 aircraft will operate: Aircraft 1 Monday

07:30 BRS-ABZ 08:55
09:30 ABZ-OSL-ABZ 13:25
14:15 ABZ-BRS-ABZ 17:25
18:05 ABZ-BRS-ABZ 21:30

Tuesday to Friday

13:40 ABZ-OSL-ABZ 17:35
18:05 ABZ-BRS-ABZ 21:30

Sunday

13:40 ABZ-OSL-ABZ 17:35
18:05 ABZ-BRS 19:25

Aircraft 2 Monday to Friday

10:20 ABZ-EBJ-ABZ 13:40

Are Loganair really going to have one ER4 operating just to ABZ-EBJ-ABZ?.





NCL is one ER4. Looks like no ER3s at this time on top of the second one that was always coming get across.

Has as anyone heard anything about the other ER3/4 that we’re due to transfer across before S19?

[Flightrider]

Surely the ABZ-EBJ fits on the ABZ-NWI aircraft operating for Eastern, just as it did for bmi?

[BAladdy]

E145 SAJC positioned into Chester to operate Airbus flights from tomorrow presumably. ATR42 leased from DOT to cover at Glasgow
G-SAJB positioned to BRS last night to join G-SAJC in operating the Airbus flights. ATR72-600 (ES-ATA) has been leased from Nordica to cover LM’s flight from INV.

Can’t find any information on how long the aircraft have been leased for.

[awwdabaaby]

G-SAJB positioned to BRS last night to join G-SAJC in operating the Airbus flights. ATR72-600 (ES-ATA) has been leased from Nordica to cover LM’s flight from INV.

Can’t find any information on how long the aircraft have been leased for.

think they only here for a week, should be back to normal for the weekend

[BAladdy]

Surely the ABZ-EBJ fits on the ABZ-NWI aircraft operating for Eastern, just as it did for bmi?
T3’s agreement with BM was set to end at the end of March.

Flights on T3’s ABZ-NWI route have for the last year been shown on BE’s website as operated by BM in behalf of T3. BE updated the schedule back in November and flight to NWI changed to just operated by T3 from the start of the S19 schedule.

[Richard Taylor]

Wonder if LOG are planning anything else ex ABZ - there are indeed gaps a-plenty as BAladdy says. Aircraft one occupied on Mon, but Tues-Fri it's free all morning; and a/c two has a very light schedule! However I guess start with the established ex-bmi routes & assess from there.

[Aero Mad]

Something that's been bugging me that I can't get my head around is this. Airline Investments Ltd (AIL) has made a (perfectly valid) commercial decision to allow one of its subsidiaries to enter administration, by failing to give it sufficient funds to continue operating. I haven't read their recent accounts but one assumes that Flybmi now has insufficient assets to meet obligations to creditors.

Another subsidiary of AIL, Loganair, has taken on several of Flybmi's routes. All Flybmi reservations are no longer valid and customers must re-book with Loganair. If there are insufficient assets to give full refunds to those who have already paid for reservations, this raises the prospect of the parent company profiting from allowing Flybmi to enter administration. Even if customers receive a full refund, would it not have been easier for AIL/Loganair and for customers simply to transfer their bookings? For lots of reasons it's certainly difficult to believe that Loganair didn't know this in the pipe-line.

I may be barking up the wrong tree here and I'm not alleging any illegal behaviour, but at the very least it does seem a very odd way to go about managing the process.

[davidjohnson6]

Aeromad - if one could claim in the bankruptcy court that Loganair was sonehow a successor company or otherwise legally related to bmir, then creditors of bmir might then be able to sue for the assets of Loganair as well. If AIL want to sacrifice bmir and retain Loganair, then they need to be able to justify to the judge that the 2 airlines are legally unrelated. The judge may well smell a rat anyway over bmir and Loganair, but if nothing can be proven then AIL will get what they want

[Fly757X]

Haven't seen this posted here but this is the information for BMI crew: https://www.loganair.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Pilot_bm_lm_info-pack1.pdf

[BAladdy]

Haven't seen this posted here but this is the information for BMI crew: https://www.loganair.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Pilot_bm_lm_info-pack1.pdf

Looks like Loganair are planning to add new bases at Bristol, Chester, Derry, East Midlands and Newcastle. As they are also advertising for Cabin Crew for those airports.

https://www.loganair.co.uk/recruitment-drive/

[4567]

I’m sure the AIL owners Stephen and Peter Bond has their lawyers erect a very large legal firewall between themselves and and Flybmi but by taking over such a vast amount of Flybmi routes they do leave themselves open to criticism about how this whole situation has went down.

[Flightrider]

by taking over such a vast amount of Flybmi routes

Five at last count?!

[Facts R Us]

T3’s agreement with BM was set to end at the end of March.


No it wasn’t, it was a 5 year deal with about 2/3 years left to run.

[SWBKCB]

Looks like Loganair are planning to add new bases at Bristol, Chester, Derry, East Midlands and Newcastle. As they are also advertising for Cabin Crew for those airports.

So is that all of flybmi's old UK bases? Looks like they have already got (or are confident of getting) the LDY PSO work, the Airbus contract and the EMA flying (not yet announced?)

[22/04]

I’m sure the AIL owners Stephen and Peter Bond has their lawyers erect a very large legal firewall between themselves and and Flybmi but by taking over such a vast amount of Flybmi routes they do leave themselves open to criticism about how this whole situation has went down.

One ailing airline with a heavy commitment to European flying which will become more difficult or to any extent is less certain in the new politik.

Another airline with a large commitment to UK flying.

Strategic decision to run one down and place much of the UK flying with another to whom you have recently place Embraer's. Looks ok to me.

[fanrailuk]

One ailing airline with a heavy commitment to European flying which will become more difficult or to any extent is less certain in the new politik.

Another airline with a large commitment to UK flying.

Strategic decision to run one down and place much of the UK flying with another to whom you have recently place Embraer's. Looks ok to me.

Not sure you can use the "run one down" as this doesn't seem to have been the case, on the face of things at least - more like "run them out".

And also the fact that they announced taking over the flybmi aircraft, ABZ routes and set-up a whole new crew base in NCL within 24hrs...

All seems very orchestrated...and terribly convenient.

[goldeneye]

LM are operating the T3/BE flights between ABZ and NWI until the 31st March on a Saab 2000.

[Mooncrest]

I remember when Capital Airlines ceased trading, Loganair picked up the GLA-LBA service within a couple of days. They didn't hang around then either, though I concede there was no LBA base set up by Logan.

Interestingly, that route has been operated by British Midland for two periods, Loganair for two periods, Dan Air, Metropolitan, Brown Air, Capital and Manx. The route is not currently served. I hope Logan is aware of this.

[willy wombat]

I am sure Loganair is aware the GLA LBA currently unserved - they are based at GLA after all. I just hope they do not overcomplicate their business model opening too many bases or else you end up like Flybe with a base at (virtually) every UK airport.

[jensdad]

Not sure you can use the "run one down" as this doesn't seem to have been the case, on the face of things at least - more like "run them out".

And also the fact that they announced taking over the flybmi aircraft, ABZ routes and set-up a whole new crew base in NCL within 24hrs...

All seems very orchestrated...and terribly convenient.
My thought entirely, fanrailuk. I've got a lot of time for Loganair but, watching my words carefully, it does not appear that this is a case of one company folding and another company recovering from their surprise to fill the gap that they didn't know was going to exist 48 hours earlier.

[Mooncrest]

Loganair actually operated GLA-LBA until about two years ago. I think they walked away around about the same time they were having a tiff with their ex-FlyBe masters and wanted the LBA Saab for some sabre-rattling elsewhere.

[BAladdy]

Loganair are also advertising for crew for new bases at Bristol, Chester, East Midlands, Newcastle and Londonderry.

I am guessing that the recruitment of crew to be based at BRS and CEG means that LM are expecting to take over the Airbus corporate shuttle. They must also be confident that they are going to be awarded the LDY PSO since they are recruiting for a base in LDY.

[mmeteesside]

They're already operating the Airbus contract albeit presumably on emergency tender?

[BAladdy]

They're already operating the Airbus contract albeit presumably on emergency tender?
Looks like they are only operating the Airbus flights until Friday. The ER3 will then return to operating flights from INV on Saturday and the ER4 will return to service in GLA on Sunday

The 2 leased ATR will continue to operate for LM until the end of the day on Friday. The Nordica AT7 out of INV and the DOT AT4 from GLA.

[Rivet Joint]

Loganair are also advertising for crew for new bases at Bristol, Chester, East Midlands, Newcastle and Londonderry.

I am guessing that the recruitment of crew to be based at BRS and CEG means that LM are expecting to take over the Airbus corporate shuttle. They must also be confident that they are going to be awarded the LDY PSO since they are recruiting for a base in LDY.


Almost like it was pre-planned.......

[TartinTon]

Be interesting to see how they do on NCLBRU seeing as they will get no help from SN on the codeshare. As a non-IOSA carrier they aren't able to qualify for codeshare with any Star alliance carrier.....but I'm sure they've factored that in to the business case......

[NorthEasterner]

Without the SN Brussels Airlines codeshare, I wouldn't be surprised if the route will struggle. SN provides the connecting flights for onward travel.

[snn20]

LDY operations
STN begins 27th February 2x Daily ERJ145
MAN begins 24th March 6x weekly (excl Saturday) ERJ145

[ib26uk]

Loganair are on a roll at the moment !!

Great news for all concerned

Are they leasing the ex flybmi planes?

[SWBKCB]

Be interesting to see how they do on NCLBRU seeing as they will get no help from SN on the codeshare.

Apologies if I've lost track, but was the final iteration of NCL-BRU a code share?. I thought SN dropped it and them flybmi picked it up in their own right?

[01475]

I hope it is that Loganair are on a roll! What is the situation with the ex BMI planes? Is the ownership structure such that AIL might be under pressure to find homes for them?

[Fly757X]

I hope it is that Loganair are on a roll! What is the situation with the ex BMI planes? Is the ownership structure such that AIL might be under pressure to find homes for them?

G-RJXE has been operating for Loganair under the T3/BE contract as of today.

[Rob Royston]

G-RJXE has been operating for Loganair under the T3/BE contract as of today.
I saw that, it is shown as part of the Loganair fleet on FR24.
G-SAJB/C both flew back to Glasgow and Inverness tonight. Will they need replacements for Bristol - Toulouse? Be interesting to see what happens on Sunday / Monday.

[TartinTon]

Apologies if I've lost track, but was the final iteration of NCL-BRU a code share?. I thought SN dropped it and them flybmi picked it up in their own right?

Was a codeshare for at least the last 4 years

[Fly757X]

I saw that, it is shown as part of the Loganair fleet on FR24.
G-SAJB/C both flew back to Glasgow and Inverness tonight. Will they need replacements for Bristol - Toulouse? Be interesting to see what happens on Sunday / Monday.

I’d assume the former BMR fleet will start to come online now in the next while, LDY-STN is to start on Wednesday on what I assume will be G-RJXB as it never left LDY after BMR’s demise.

[mullac30]

Any chance of LM picking up some of the boat-load of South American E-Jets that are about to come on the second-hand market? Avianca are already retiring their 10 E190, and Azul are about to replace all their E1s with the E2. It could be a cheap source of aircraft which they could well need as most ex-flyBMI ERJs are over 20 years old and will probably need replacing at some point. Also, despite the fact that they are cheaper to run than the S2000 (which probably isn't saying much), they are not very cheap aircraft to run. There is also the benefit of higher capacity which could be used on many of LMs new routes like GLA-DUS and they could also use them on trunk routes like INV-MAN with reduced frequency to free up the a/c for other routes.

[NorthEasterner]

RJXD positioned to EMA last night after being in NCL for nearly a week.

[NorthSouth]

Loganair are on a roll at the moment !!Yes and great to see. But I seem to recall reading on here somewhere not so long ago that the last time Loganair expanded into all sorts of non-Scottish markets they got their fingers seriously burned. Let's hope this time's different.
NS

[VickersVicount]

Yes and great to see. But I seem to recall reading on here somewhere not so long ago that the last time Loganair expanded into all sorts of non-Scottish markets they got their fingers seriously burned. Let's hope this time's different.
NS
Their last non-core expansion was new routes from scratch in then uncharted territory for LM. This time they are taking on relatively well established routes where they will have all the data and insight. Given how cautious they normally are, they should be ok.

[NorthEasterner]

Given how cautious they normally are, they should be ok.

Any idea if they're going to get the SN codeshares on the BRU routes?

[TartinTon]

Any idea if they're going to get the SN codeshares on the BRU routes?

They are non-IOSA so under LH group airline rules will not be allowed to codeshare

[01475]

I've seen bigger problems sorted where there's a will! They "operate them on behalf of someone else" who is, ...?

[TartinTon]

I've seen bigger problems sorted where there's a will! They "operate them on behalf of someone else" who is, ...?

You've clearly never dealt with an LH Group company......

[bigjim99]

I'd take a punt to say that the codeshare wasn't worth it.

Logan have set fares starting at £80 one way which is a damn sight less than BMI did if I remember correctly.

Only time I flew the route was via a codeshare, connecting onwards from BRU and that was at ludicrously cheap fares - so much so I suspect the high price for those onboard just doing NCL-BRU sector was subsidising it. Plus BRU would be very much down the list of connecting airports I'd want to be stuck in!

Will they make any money? Who knows, it'll be tight I'd suspect!

[EastMids]

RJXD positioned to EMA last night after being in NCL for nearly a week.

XD has had Loganair titles applied over the bmi livery at EMA today.

[SealinkBF]

Yes and great to see. But I seem to recall reading on here somewhere not so long ago that the last time Loganair expanded into all sorts of non-Scottish markets they got their fingers seriously burned. Let's hope this time's different.
NS


I have a timetable from late 80s where the Loganair network was a bit like Flybe's. I was a travel agent at the time and they said that jets (146) didn't increase pax on BHD MAN and they were going. Not sure about having their fingers burnt but there was a big reorganisation where LC as they were then were restricted to Scotland and a lot of routes went to Manx.

[mullac30]

Why (and when) did Loganair change their IATA code to LM?

[SealinkBF]

Why (and when) did Loganair change their IATA code to LM?

I think in the 24 years between Loganair using LC and becoming BA and BE franchise partner the code lapsed. It's now used by Equatorial Guinea Airlines.

I have a screen shot somewhere of a BA to Loganair booking and BA website showing my connecting Loganair flight as being Equatorial Guinea Airlines!

[Scottie Dog]

How well I recall those days when the flight prefix produced such interesting itineries for my business travellers, some of whom must have thought that their travel agent had gone stark raving mad!!

[4567]

Not the best hybrid livery but does the job for now!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/88573897@N03/40214921633/in/photolist-24gDZ8P-2dukj1t-2eNwFqb-SJXidd-2dM6u1J-24ghsUe-2dLP4RU-2dtR2PX-2dLkWoS-2dtqHLR-2dLbzQf-R6JB74-2eS6ntV-2eMvdnG-R6K6op-R6sVKZ-2eMcRzU-2dsX5Kv-2eM6qQ5-R6jDGH-2eLDftA-2dK5gm9-2dsdZJn-24ewRfF-R5CExF-24ewQyv-R5CDQi-2dK5eXh-24ewPxH-SGPLN1-2ds2XXD-24dZ3Sx-SGicf9-2eKMfvQ-2eKMfps-2eKMfhU-2dJobz5-2driA6X-2drizZz-2drgG54-2drgG4c-2drgG3k-R4FNwB-R4FNbM-2dHsL3f-2dqBre8-2dqviVn-R3UJoB-2dHk5m5-2dquv5i

[mullac30]

Not the best hybrid livery but does the job for now!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/88573897@N03/40214921633/in/photolist-24gDZ8P-2dukj1t-2eNwFqb-SJXidd-2dM6u1J-24ghsUe-2dLP4RU-2dtR2PX-2dLkWoS-2dtqHLR-2dLbzQf-R6JB74-2eS6ntV-2eMvdnG-R6K6op-R6sVKZ-2eMcRzU-2dsX5Kv-2eM6qQ5-R6jDGH-2eLDftA-2dK5gm9-2dsdZJn-24ewRfF-R5CExF-24ewQyv-R5CDQi-2dK5eXh-24ewPxH-SGPLN1-2ds2XXD-24dZ3Sx-SGicf9-2eKMfvQ-2eKMfps-2eKMfhU-2dJobz5-2driA6X-2drizZz-2drgG54-2drgG4c-2drgG3k-R4FNwB-R4FNbM-2dHsL3f-2dqBre8-2dqviVn-R3UJoB-2dHk5m5-2dquv5i

Personally, I think something along these lines would have looked much better:
https://i.imgur.com/1zgeR9f.png
Photo taken by : https://www.flickr.com/photos/bradley_at_egsh/

[chaps1954]

I guess time was of the essence and a decal was stuck on overnight, time would have to be booked in for the tail to be resprayed and the rudder rebalanced after repainting
so by the looks it needs a respray anyway so I don`t think it will keep that scheme for long

[Rob Royston]

Personally, I think something along these lines would have looked much better:
Or added a St Andrew's Cross on the blue part of the tail with the Loganair emblem on the white part below.

[Flightrider]

Rudder rebalancing is a nightmare after any paint input, so avoiding a lot of work on the tail is best. As for the rest - I don't suppose it matters if the aircraft aren't going to be in these colours for long, as I have to guess the intention will be.

[Severn]

On the 22nd Feb, 6x ex-BMI Regional/flybmi E145s were re-registered to Loganair.
The aircraft were G-RJXC,XD,XE,XH,XI and XM.
These join Loganair's E145 G-SAJC and E135 G-SAJB making a total Embraer fleet of 1x E135, and 7x E145.

[Severn]

ex-BMI Regional/flybmi E145s G-EMBI, BJ and BN are also in the process of being re-registered. Although it can't be seen to whom they are destined for, they started the process on the 18th Feb, only two days after BMIs demise so I assume they may also end up with Loganair making a fleet 1x E135 and 10x E145s!

[Fly757X]

ex-BMI Regional/flybmi E145s G-EMBI, BJ and BN are also in the process of being re-registered. Although it can't be seen to whom they are destined for, they started the process on the 18th Feb, only two days after BMIs demise so I assume they may also end up with Loganair making a fleet 1x E135 and 10x E145s!

Potentially being registered to their leasing company AeroCentury.

[garry8g]

I thought Loganair were to receive 2 E135's & 2 E145's from Flybmi for summer 19?

I would have thought that the other 3 E135's (G-RJXK, XL & XP) would potential transfer across.

That would leave 5 E145's (G-RJXA, XB & XG, along with G-CKAF & AG) still with Flybmi, although we may see a few of these transferred, if not all.

[Rob Royston]

ex-BMI Regional/flybmi E145s G-EMBI, BJ and BN are also in the process of being re-registered. Although it can't be seen to whom they are destined for, they started the process on the 18th Feb, only two days after BMIs demise so I assume they may also end up with Loganair making a fleet 1x E135 and 10x E145s!
How many does that leave?

3 @ 135 G-RJXK, XL, XP.
5 @ 145 G-CKAF, AG, G-RJXA, XB, XG

I am working from the current fleet listed for BMI on FR24. I wonder if they are all operational.

[ub2]

Personally, I think something along these lines would have looked much better:
https://i.imgur.com/1zgeR9f.png
Photo taken by : https://www.flickr.com/photos/bradley_at_egsh/

Xi the all white one had the brussels airlines name removed and had that loganair logo put on today and was also released from being impounded

[ub2]

how many does that leave?

3 @ 135 g-rjxk, xl, xp.
5 @ 145 g-ckaf, ag, g-rjxa, xb, xg

i am working from the current fleet listed for bmi on fr24. I wonder if they are all operational.

xk xl af ag xa are at bristol all impounded along with xc xm and bj plus xi that was released today

[awwdabaaby]

Any aircraft that Loganair takes will be painted into Loganair colours by April

[buzz_hornet]

I thought Loganair were to receive 2 E135's & 2 E145's from Flybmi for summer 19?

I would have thought that the other 3 E135's (G-RJXK, XL & XP) would potential transfer across.

That would leave 5 E145's (G-RJXA, XB & XG, along with G-CKAF & AG) still with Flybmi, although we may see a few of these transferred, if not all.

XB is gathering dust in LDY. I wonder if this will be transferred prior to the LDY-STN starting or if they'll bring in another aircraft

[Severn]

Below is a complete list of the Loganair and flybmi Embraer fleet - aircraft status correct as of 25-Feb-19

Loganair
E135 x1
G-SAJB - Operating Loganair routes from INV

E145 x7
G-RJXC - Operating the Airbus shuttle - BRS/TLS/CEG
G-RJXD - Positioned NCL-EMA on 25-Feb-19
G-RJXE - Operating for flybe ABZ-NWI and Eastern ABZ-HUY
G-RJXH - Operating the Airbus shuttle - BRS/TLS/CEG
G-RJXI - Stored BRS
G-RJXM - Stored BRS
G-SAJC - Operating Loganair routes from GLA

-------------------------

flybmi (BMI Regional)

E135 x3
G-RJXK - Stored BRS
G-RJXL - Stored BRS
G-RJXP - Stored NWI

E145 x8
G-CKAF - Stored BRS
G-CKAG - Stored BRS
G-EMBI - Stored ABZ - (In the process of changing Registration Marks and Registered Ownership) - back to leasing company?
G-EMBJ - Stored BRS - (In the process of changing Registration Marks and Registered Ownership) - back to leasing company?
G-EMBN - Stored NWI - (In the process of changing Registration Marks and Registered Ownership) - back to leasing company?
G-RJXA - Stored BRS
G-RJXB - Stored LDY
G-RJXG - Stored Alverca, Portugal

[SWBKCB]

Isn't the fate of individual airframes Spectators Balcony stuff?

[Rob Royston]

Isn't the fate of individual airframes Spectators Balcony stuff?
It may well be, but in this case with the "airlines, airports and routes" in a state of flux, tracking the airframes probably helps us get a feel for what's happening.

[Facts R Us]

I don’t think you’ll find that any of the Aircraft in BRS are ‘stored’!

[garry8g]

G-RJXD flew East Midlands to Inverness this afternoon.

G-RJXI left Bristol this afternoon at 13:42, destination unknown.

[Severn]

I don’t think you’ll find that any of the Aircraft in BRS are ‘stored’!

You're right, they're not 'stored' like the lines of aircraft parked up in the dessert in Nevada for example.

However, these aircraft are not 'active' making them 'inactive'.
These aircraft also no longer have an operator and most fleet tracking companies would use a sub-status of 'inactive' and describe them as 'stored' (as they're not 'in maintenance', 'scrapped' or 'crashed' etc).

Anyway, it might just have been easier to put 'parked'.

[TartinTon]

Surely "impounded" would be the correct word to use?

[jijpc]

G-RJXI positioned Bristol - Londonderry.

[Mooncrest]

In Leeds (former major British Midland territory), these aircraft would be 'sat doing nowt'.

[mwm991]

Loganair posting teasers on their Facebook page today.

[tws123]

3 new routes from SEN to be announced imminently.

[ifu05596]

Glasgow and Aberdeen been loaded on to the website (3 to 4 daily). Some are tech stops to Stornoway.

[Plane mad 134]

Confirmed as Stornoway, Aberdeen and Glasgow to Southend with Edinburgh on the cards for around October.

[BA318]

Is there any chance they can move the Derry and Dundee flights to SEN?

[ifu05596]

Was also think about the illusion that is Carlisle!

[pamann]

Don’t the Dundee - Stansted flights codeshare with EK to DXB and beyond? If they moved the flight to Southend they’d lose the connections.

[tophat27dt]

Don’t the Dundee - Stansted flights codeshare with EK to DXB and beyond? If they moved the flight to Southend they’d lose the connections.
I think Dundee-SEN is not being considered at the moment.

[andrew1968]

Ex flybmi E145 G-RJXM has had Loganair titles applied at Bristol today, so that’s another to add to the fleet.

[BAladdy]

Confirmed as Stornoway, Aberdeen and Glasgow to Southend with Edinburgh on the cards for around October.
Hopefully LM will be much more successful operating the SEN-GLA route than Stobart/Flybe were.

I wonder just how long the current BE/T3 ABZ-LCY service will continue once Loganair launch SEN?. Especially since Loganair’s SEN Service will operate direct, at a higher frequency with flights times about 1 hr shorter than BE’s LCY flights. Also LMs lowest fare will be about half the price of BE’s lowest fare on the LCY.

It is interesting that EDI is on the card for around October. EDI-LON is a extremely competitive market with over 300 flights a week, that’s over 200 more than ABZ and over a 100 more than currently from GLA. I can’t help but think that they might struggle to compete profitably.

[4567]

May well be why Loganair have decided not to launch EDI right now until they see if SEN establishes from GLA and ABZ.

[GLAEDI]

May well be why Loganair have decided not to launch EDI right now until they see if SEN establishes from GLA and ABZ.

Also remember GLA and ABZ are home airports (Loganair spiritual home is Glasgow & Aberdeen home to what was Business Air) for LM. Cheaper start up costs than EDI.

[BAladdy]

Also remember GLA and ABZ are home airports (Loganair spiritual home is Glasgow & Aberdeen home to what was Business Air) for LM. Cheaper start up costs than EDI.
Another airport that I think a service to SEN could do very well, if operated at a similar frequency as planned from GLA is there new NCL base.

[inOban]

If this 'same plane' service from Stornoway to London is successful, then I can imagine similar services from Kirkwall and/or Sumburgh via EDI.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Loganair are a high cost airline offering a service to Southend that needs to command a premium over easyJet and BA to make money, and yet is serving one of the less than wealthy local catchment areas. Buying obsolete regional jets and throwing them into borderline regional markets where they have zero brand awareness is going to lose a whole load of money in the short term IMHO.

[shamrock7seal]

Couldn't agree more Skipness One Foxtrot. There seems to be no single coherent strategy here other than very misguided land-grabbing

I heard it said that because they are deploying the ERJ-145 that the loads will be high because the ATR-72 was too big. BANGING HEAD AGAINST BRICK WALL.

I expect eventually these services to move to London City before being withdrawn altogether.

[Expressflight]

A couple of interesting observations there which could be the way it goes. The merit of the E145 over the ATR is the enduring passenger perception that a jet aircraft is more appealing to them regardless of whether it is actually faster or not. These routes will certainly be interesting to monitor. I flew on the first SEN-CFR flight and one passenger was actually on the point of not travelling once he say the propellers.

[virginblue]

While I agree with most of what Skipness has said, Stobart had to earn money on its domestic routes with, IIRC, factory-fresh ATR72-600s. The ERJs Loganair will be using are apparently owned by Loganair's mother company and will probalby result in very low capital costs, given their age. So the overall maths could work in favour of Loganair indeed (higher fuel and maintenance costs, lower capital and cabin crew costs).

Nevertheless, I am slightly concerned that Loganair now wants too much too soon and may risk its future well being and thus it core network in the highlands and islands (although I supsect that if push comes to shove, Scottish government will come up with something to guarantee the continuation of Loganair's core business).

As for ABZ-SEN, I find it interesting that everybody is focused on the competing ABZ-NCL-LCY service on Eastern. Another issue that has not been mentioned is the recent withdrawal of the ABZ-LGW route by easyJet which has removed 300 seats from the ABZ-LON market each day. Depending on where you live the southeast, of all the inconvenient alternatives to LGW (other than LCY), SEN might be a better option for some than LTN, STN or LHR.

[Cyrano]

While I agree with most of what Skipness has said, Stobart had to earn money on its domestic routes with, IIRC, factory-fresh ATR72-600s. The ERJs Loganair will be using are apparently owned by Loganair's mother company and will probalby result in very low capital costs, given their age. So the overall maths could work in favour of Loganair indeed (higher fuel and maintenance costs, lower capital and cabin crew costs).

Nevertheless, I am slightly concerned that Loganair now wants too much too soon and may risk its future well being and thus it core network in the highlands and islands (although I supsect that if push comes to shove, Scottish government will come up with something to guarantee the continuation of Loganair's core business).


I think you're absolutely right. Yes, the capital costs will be lower, but that applied to flybmi too and wasn't enough to save them. Profitable niches for small regional jets are becoming rarer and rarer, and they seem only to survive where there is a relatively "protected" market that has substantial high-yield (business) traffic and doesn't face too much LCC competition. That doesn't describe the broader GLA-LON or ABZ-LON markets - perhaps someone more familiar with the catchment can tell us if it describes GLA-SEN or ABZ-SEN? I'd like to see it work but I am not convinced. Stobart may be throwing large amounts of money at Loganair to induce it to start these routes, but the money will have to run out sooner or later and the routes will have to stand on their own feet.

[BA318]

I expect eventually these services to move to London City before being withdrawn altogether.

The E145 is not certificated for LCY. The E135 could do it but LCY doesn't like smaller RJs now.

[mwm991]

If fares are alright I think they will do fine out of GLA. Nothing replaced the STN FR service when it went. ABZ lost LGW on EZY but has since gained Flybe LHR and Eastern LCY have they not? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be a bit more concerned about the viability of that route even if it's cheaper fares and different clientele.

[virginblue]

I think you're absolutely right. Yes, the capital costs will be lower, but that applied to flybmi too and wasn't enough to save them. Profitable niches for small regional jets are becoming rarer and rarer, and they seem only to survive where there is a relatively "protected" market that has substantial high-yield (business) traffic and doesn't face too much LCC competition.

From what I gather, flybmi played a slightly different card as they put their money on fewer, but higher yielding passengers based on operations spread out across half of Europe. Loganair apparently is (except for some slam dunk profitable ex flybmi routes) after more passengers at a lower yield, focused on bases in Scotland and nearby airports. I am not convinced that it will work, but is a different approach of using Embraers 145 (I never really understood why they took on Embraer 135s, though).

If fares are alright I think they will do fine out of GLA. Nothing replaced the STN FR service when it went. ABZ lost LGW on EZY but has since gained Flybe LHR and Eastern LCY have they not? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be a bit more concerned about the viability of that route even if it's cheaper fares and different clientele.

As Loganair only needs to fill a 49 seater, it must only capture a small portion of the former LGW-ABZ passengers to add to SEN's local catchment area and those who see SEN-ABZ as a quicker and cheaper alternative to the recently downgraded LCY-ABZ route that now stops at NCL. Plus there could be some folks using shortish connections from London via ABZ to Kirkwall and Sumburgh. It will be very difficult, but maybe it will work out ok

[01475]

I really worry that Loganair is just trying to find ways of using its parent company's aircraft rather than doing things that are in the best interests of the business. Is the lower capital value of the aircraft in reflected in running costs shown in the accounts, or is that an assumption? One way or another the capital cost has to be met in cash at some point in the life of the aircraft, and it wouldn't be surprising if the rate it which this happened diverged from their accounting value.

... but I hope the Stornoway link takes off! Links like that could be so amazing for the local economy!

[SealinkBF]

Hopefully LM will be much more successful operating the SEN-GLA route than Stobart/Flybe were.

I wonder just how long the current BE/T3 ABZ-LCY service will continue once Loganair launch SEN?. Especially since Loganair’s SEN Service will operate direct, at a higher frequency with flights times about 1 hr shorter than BE’s LCY flights. Also LMs lowest fare will be about half the price of BE’s lowest fare on the LCY.

It is interesting that EDI is on the card for around October. EDI-LON is a extremely competitive market with over 300 flights a week, that’s over 200 more than ABZ and over a 100 more than currently from GLA. I can’t help but think that they might struggle to compete profitably.



Not so sure. There's money in Edinburgh! When BMI were struggling it was the GLA route they axed not EDI. I think it's one of those markets that expands with capacity.

[DC3 Dave]

Hopefully LM will be much more successful operating the SEN-GLA route than Stobart/Flybe were.





In the last three months of operation the route averaged around 5,500 pax. The best month on the route achieved 6,873 pax, which is not that far from Loganair filling each and every aircraft for a month. And then add on those traveling to and from Stornoway.

Of course, there are no guarantees, and it may take a little time, but if they get the pricing right, Loganair could have a real winner on their hands.

[inOban]

Remember that a through ticket from London to Shetland currently costs about £300-, unless you have an overnight break in EDI or abz

[Cyrano]

In the last three months of operation the route averaged around 5,500 pax. The best month on the route achieved 6,873 pax, which is not that far from Loganair filling each and every aircraft for a month. And then add on those traveling to and from Stornoway.


There are a couple of subscription-based online tools out there, aimed at airports, airlines and industry analysts, which estimate route yields based on sampling available fares over a period of time and making assumptions about the booking profiles. Their results are by no means 100% accurate but the fact that a good number of subscribers continue to pay their not insubstantial fees suggests that they are not entirely useless either.

One of the well-established such tools estimates that during 2018 the average one-way yield between GLA and SEN was a bit shy of £30. (This isn't precise - maybe in reality it was £25, maybe it was £35, though only Stobart/flybe knows, but based on that imprecise data I'd bet that it wasn't £50!). Unfortunately even if Loganair fills every seat on every flight at that price, they won't come close to making money. Fuel alone for the sector is likely to be over £1000 (or £20/seat) and nav charges will be over £600 (£12/seat). So they will need to achieve far better yields, and the jet product will certainly help those yields, but I don't know if it'll be enough. I wish them well, I really do (especially for the Stornoway-London link, which as 01475 says would be transformative for the local economy), but I wouldn't be betting on the profitability of these routes. If in a year's time I am proven wrong, I'll be happy to eat humble pie.

[AirportPlanner1]

A couple of clarifications in the case for and against GLA-SEN.

Having flown on the BE/STK service 2.5 returns including at short notice, I can confirm fares were far from high and loads on all five flights were quite low. I concur that getting 40 people on an E195 doesn’t mean you’ll get 40 on a E145.

Re post 370, Essex is many things but it’s not a poor catchment. Quite the opposite. There will certainly be some takers for a reliable, frequent higher end service and the same will apply for the ABZ route.

[inOban]

If it was only £30 then that explains why the route was pulled. Even Ryanair's costs are around £50 per pax.

[AirportPlanner1]

I should also point out that Stobart was a jet service. It was scheduled on the E195 but with their reliability troubles the route was often subbed to an ATR. That should in itself say something about loads.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

A couple of clarifications in the case for and against GLA-SEN.

Having flown on the BE/STK service 2.5 returns including at short notice, I can confirm fares were far from high and loads on all five flights were quite low. I concur that getting 40 people on an E195 doesn’t mean you’ll get 40 on a E145.

Re post 370, Essex is many things but it’s not a poor catchment. Quite the opposite. There will certainly be some takers for a reliable, frequent higher end service and the same will apply for the ABZ route.
There almost no “high end” routes in UK domestic. Going to Southend from Scotland, fly easyJet to Stansted at a fraction of “high end” and get the bus from there.

[Expressflight]

The Loganair GLA-SEN-GLA service will not be a like-for-like replacement for the Stobart/Flybe service. Low frequency always prevented the Stobart service from being very useful for business travellers in either direction whereas 3 x daily on Loganair ticks that box and should result in a higher yield.

[4567]

I personally think that £39.99 with a case, pick ur seat at check in and onboard snack is pretty decent and with only 50 seater s you’re off the plane in no time. They have a good product we will just need to see if it pays off.

[AirportPlanner1]

There almost no “high end” routes in UK domestic. Going to Southend from Scotland, fly easyJet to Stansted at a fraction of “high end” and get the bus from there.

Its not really true to say high end domestic doesn’t exist, there’s certainly a market or BA wouldn’t offer Club or charge a fortune on certain flights. There’s also plenty of “premium” routes, pretty much anything involving Eastern fits into that bracket .

Also its all well and good telling people to go to Stansted, but at a bare minimum EZY will want about £45 return but normally it’s going to be more like £50-55 if you book at least a couple of weeks ahead, risk having your handluggage taken off you and sit where they put you. Add on your £30 bus and Logan with luggage, a drink and a tea cake thrown in looks pretty damn good.

Also on some days the EZY schedule from STN isn’t that useful, trust me I used it twice in February.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Its not really true to say high end domestic doesn’t exist, there’s certainly a market or BA wouldn’t offer Club or charge a fortune on certain flights. There’s also plenty of “premium” routes, pretty much anything involving Eastern fits into that bracket .
Also its all well and good telling people to go to Stansted, but at a bare minimum EZY will want about £45 return but normally it’s going to be more like £50-55 if you book at least a couple of weeks ahead, risk having your handluggage taken off you and sit where they put you. Add on your £30 bus and Logan with luggage, a drink and a tea cake thrown in looks pretty damn good.
Also on some days the EZY schedule from STN isn’t that useful, trust me I used it twice in February.
BA *just about* make high end domestic work on EDI-LON but not even sure if I would argue the Glasgow Shuttle fits that bill nowadays. There are not plenty of premium routes, go count the ones you'd call money makers, you know, at flybe :(
Flybe are on their knees partly due to the weakness of UK domestic aviation, Eastern continue to contract. The only real money makers are high volume routes, low volume high value is barely seen outside of er....Loganair! You can't seriously point at the loss making car crash that is the flybe / Eastern business model and say that's the way to go. Added to the fact that the company flying the very same aircraft last week just went bust because low volume regional flying is a bottomless pit of losses for most operators.

My actual concern here is I remember what happened last time Loganair did this and it didn't end well.

[EGPO]

I was wondering if someone would please answer a couple of questions for me, having read various posts , following the new 'Stornoway- Sen ' route, and that perhaps, Sumburgh or even Kirkwall as I saw was suggested on either this or another forum .

Anyway ref Stornoway, what are the flight times likely to be , it must be easily over an hour .

And can Sumburgh , which would be the next ' logical route ' , especially with all that Oil business , plus the positive effects of inbound tourism. could the Runway at Sumburgh support an ERJ45 ?

. Stornoway is clearly long enough , as Ryanair if anyone recalls tried to get a base there .I read that it was stopped by the Airport?.

Anyway I ask about Sumburgh as obviously it could handle an Embraer 170 ( could it handle a 175 ( I thought Stobart have them ).
Just I was always under the impression the E13/45 was not as runway effecient as the new ' E Jets '.
Also is the direct link from Manchester to Stornoway still running .

It would be a real boost to the local economy if it was .
I'm surprised they don't get more ' inbound flights , ( tourist flights - that offer tickets to locals).
I believe this is common in Eire and NQY And Exeter ?.

Sorry for the different questions but not being in the know about the subject, but having spent a lot of time on Lewis , this could be the start of more to come .
As not everyone relishes spending an age driving to ullapool and suffering the crossing of the Minch , no matter how good the new Calmac vessel is !.

[Fly757X]

I was wondering if someone would please answer a couple of questions for me, having read various posts , following the new 'Stornoway- Sen ' route, and that perhaps, Sumburgh or even Kirkwall as I saw was suggested on either this or another forum .

Anyway ref Stornoway, what are the flight times likely to be , it must be easily over an hour .

And can Sumburgh , which would be the next ' logical route ' , especially with all that Oil business , plus the positive effects of inbound tourism. could the Runway at Sumburgh support an ERJ45 ?

. Stornoway is clearly long enough , as Ryanair if anyone recalls tried to get a base there .I read that it was stopped by the Airport?.

Anyway I ask about Sumburgh as obviously it could handle an Embraer 170 ( could it handle a 175 ( I thought Stobart have them ).
Just I was always under the impression the E13/45 was not as runway effecient as the new ' E Jets '.
Also is the direct link from Manchester to Stornoway still running .

It would be a real boost to the local economy if it was .
I'm surprised they don't get more ' inbound flights , ( tourist flights - that offer tickets to locals).
I believe this is common in Eire and NQY And Exeter ?.

Sorry for the different questions but not being in the know about the subject, but having spent a lot of time on Lewis , this could be the start of more to come .
As not everyone relishes spending an age driving to ullapool and suffering the crossing of the Minch , no matter how good the new Calmac vessel is !.

A few things on that... Stobart got 3 E195s from Flybe, not 175s.

The ER3/4s that Loganair have, have had their reverses deactivated from what I’ve heard due to the crews not being trained in them because of the low concentration of ER3/4s globally that have then anyway. Therefore I don’t believe they could operate there but I could be completely wrong there.

[EGPO]

A few things on that... Stobart got 3 E195s from Flybe, not 175s.

The ER3/4s that Loganair have, have had their reverses deactivated from what I’ve heard due to the crews not being trained in them because of the low concentration of ER3/4s globally that have then anyway. Therefore I don’t believe they could operate there but I could be completely wrong there.
Thank you, very interesting , is that even safe to have an aircraft land minus reversers .
I'm no pilot but what of the Scenario, especially on Lewis with a wetter climate.
Plus as id said , I'm pretty sure it was mentioned about Sumburgh ( I'm assuming a 190/5 could get in there , as I was under the impression like many aircraft designs there is ac' short field package ' not to mention , Vagar was taking 737's before the extended runway. ( YouTube video for proof somewhere).

Anyway back to topic no reversers and what if the runway was soaked and high winds.
Surley just brakes alone would potentially cause a skid? Unless it's grooved and I can't see it being grooved at Stornoway as I think ( would have to check , but pretty sure it's as long if not longer than the likes of HUY, which takes 757's. Indeed years back a German 747 had to land there in an emergency .

But even so to disable a major safety system does not sound right.

[willy wombat]

It’s perfectly safe to land without thrust reversers if the runway is suitable. Some aircraft do not have them e.g. BAe 146 / RJ85/100 and they have pretty good short field performance (landing at London City even in the rain). They won’t “skid” as they have anti skid braking systems like ABS on a car.

[chaps1954]

Are you sure there was a B747 in HUY as I don`t think runway is anywhere near long enough

[Rob Royston]

Thank you, very interesting , is that even safe to have an aircraft land minus reversers .
I'm no pilot but what of the Scenario, especially on Lewis with a wetter climate.
Plus as id said , I'm pretty sure it was mentioned about Sumburgh ( I'm assuming a 190/5 could get in there , as I was under the impression like many aircraft designs there is ac' short field package ' not to mention , Vagar was taking 737's before the extended runway. ( YouTube video for proof somewhere).

Anyway back to topic no reversers and what if the runway was soaked and high winds.
Surley just brakes alone would potentially cause a skid? Unless it's grooved and I can't see it being grooved at Stornoway as I think ( would have to check , but pretty sure it's as long if not longer than the likes of HUY, which takes 757's. Indeed years back a German 747 had to land there in an emergency .

But even so to disable a major safety system does not sound right.
When the Loganair CEO visited Shetland last year he told them that the ERJ's could not operate from Sumburgh and they would be getting ATR's to replace the Saab's. It looks like the runways are too short, I think especially for take off's. There are no leading edge slats on the wings.
SYY used to be 7595ft on 18-36 but this seems to have been shortened to around 7200ft. I remember reading about the large aircraft doing the emergency landing. I don't think it was a 747 but they had to get the passengers off with the ambulift. It may have been a 767, https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-1796.html

[inOban]

And you certainly don't want to run off the end of the Sumburgh runway, as both ends were extended into the sea.

[Expressflight]

Anyway back to topic no reversers and what if the runway was soaked and high winds.
Surley just brakes alone would potentially cause a skid? Unless it's grooved and I can't see it being grooved at Stornoway
Both Stornaway and Sumburgh have grooved runways.

[EGPO]

Are you sure there was a B747 in HUY as I don`t think runway is anywhere near long enough

Sorry I meant Stornoway, it was a medical emergency .

[virginblue]

Leaving issues such as crosswind limits etc. aside: KOI and LSI have 1.428m and 1.500m runways. LCY has 1.508m and has seen ER3 ops by Jetmagic and Luxair. So just looking at the runway length, it should be doable for sn ER3 .For the ERJ145EP, takeoff field length TOW for 400nm, full PAX, ISA, SL is 1.410m, for MTOW it is 2.000m+. So it really depends what you are looking for, how much wear and tear you are willing to accept etc. etc., but generally it does not look as if an ER4 could be operated from LSI/KOI in an useful way.

[Rob Royston]

And you certainly don't want to run off the end of the Sumburgh runway, as both ends were extended into the sea.
Sadly that has already happened, 1978 I think. At least three work colleagues were killed among others. A Dan Air HS748 that had some modifications done to it by previous owners in South America.
A few weeks later we were taking off for Glasgow late in the evening and hit a gull as we were about ready to lift off, I think it was on the other runway, but we managed to stop. Luckily the Aberdeen charter had not left and I think we all got on it. We missed the train home from there, but no one was complaining. They got us on the BA flight in the morning.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The Stornoway div was a Pan Am A310 from memory.

[virginblue]

In 2016, Airbus did proving flights to/from SYY with an Airbus A350 so that must have been the largest widebody ever to land there.

In 2001, an AA 767 diverted to SYY because of an medical emergency. Pan Am diversion (mechanical issue) was in 1990. Problem in those cases: No steps available for a widebody.

[EGPO]

Leaving issues such as crosswind limits etc. aside: KOI and LSI have 1.428m and 1.500m runways. LCY has 1.508m and has seen ER3 ops by Jetmagic and Luxair. So just looking at the runway length, it should be doable for sn ER3 .For the ERJ145EP, takeoff field length TOW for 400nm, full PAX, ISA, SL is 1.410m, for MTOW it is 2.000m+. So it really depends what you are looking for, how much wear and tear you are willing to accept etc. etc., but generally it does not look as if an ER4 could be operated from LSI/KOI in an useful way.

Are Loganair in possession of an ER3?.

[chaps1954]

Yes they use one on INV-MAN

Ian

[4567]

Any idea how many more Embraers are to transfer to Loganair?

[Severn]

Are Loganair in possession of an ER3?.

Below is a complete list of the current Loganair Embraer fleet and their operations on 1st March:

E135 x1
G-SAJB - Operating Loganair routes from INV

E145 x7
G-RJXC - Operating the Airbus shuttle - BRS/TLS/CEG
G-RJXD - Operating Loganair routes from INV
G-RJXE - Operating for flybe ABZ-NWI
G-RJXH - Operating the Airbus shuttle - BRS/TLS/CEG
G-RJXI - Operating Loganair routes from LDY-STN
G-RJXM - Positioned to ABZ on 28-Feb
G-SAJC - Operating Loganair routes from GLA

[garry8g]

Any idea how many more Embraers are to transfer to Loganair?

I imagine a few more aircraft will transfer over. They will require one for Newcastle, when those flights begin later this month.
Also, Glasgow to Dusseldorf starts at the end of this month. There was also supposed to be a further two Embraers transferring to Loganair for summer 19 anyway.
Plus with the Southend flights being announced, a would suspect further aircraft will be required for these services.

[Rob Royston]

I imagine a few more aircraft will transfer over. They will require one for Newcastle, when those flights begin later this month.
Also, Glasgow to Dusseldorf starts at the end of this month. There was also supposed to be a further two Embraers transferring to Loganair for summer 19 anyway.
Plus with the Southend flights being announced, a would suspect further aircraft will be required for these services.
I'm sure they will need a few more transferred as required.
Tomorrow they start Esjberg and Oslo from ABZ. They have one aircraft in ABZ already and an extra one in INV. However they have a flight from Bristol in the morning that looks like it will do the Monday flight to Esjberg this week. For the rest of the week the one aircraft will cover both routes as Oslo is later in the day.
I wonder if the aircraft at INV will reposition to Bristol today or if they have another ready to release.
Edit: They have an 1805 from ABZ to Bristol tonight so could use the spare one from INV tomorrow.

[willy wombat]

Did DAT start Esjberg-Aberdeen?

[willy wombat]

Just answered my own question by looking at the ABZ thread. Will be interested to see who comes out on top.

[Rob Royston]

Just answered my own question by looking at the ABZ thread. Will be interested to see who comes out on top.
Loganair are also up against SAS on the Oslo route. It's a hard game.

[TartinTon]

Loganair are also up against SAS on the Oslo route. It's a hard game.

As were bmi...the DAT operation on EBJ is new

[Mooncrest]

Time for Loganair to set up a subsidiary company using aircraft chartered from the parent. It can be called 'British Midland Airways'.

[Rob Royston]

I'm sure they will need a few more transferred as required.
Tomorrow they start Esjberg and Oslo from ABZ. They have one aircraft in ABZ already and an extra one in INV. However they have a flight from Bristol in the morning that looks like it will do the Monday flight to Esjberg this week. For the rest of the week the one aircraft will cover both routes as Oslo is later in the day.
I wonder if the aircraft at INV will reposition to Bristol today or if they have another ready to release.
Edit: They have an 1805 from ABZ to Bristol tonight so could use the spare one from INV tomorrow.
I got that wrong, they are using the Norwich aircraft for EBJ on Mondays. The one that overnights at Bristol on Sunday night comes up to ABZ and then does Oslo. It appears that there is a spare aircraft at INV for now.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know of LM are going to continue to operate the Airbus corporate shuttle flights beyond the end of March. If they are does this contract require 2 aircraft to operate it or can it be operated by 1 aircraft
I got that wrong, they are using the Norwich aircraft for EBJ on Mondays. The one that overnights at Bristol on Sunday night comes up to ABZ and then does Oslo. It appears that there is a spare aircraft at INV for now.
BM used to use the aircraft leased to T3 for the NWI service to operate there EBJ service. The current lease to T3 is ending at the end of March.

[BAladdy]

Are the crews used to operate LM’s aircraft that nightstop at DND, EDI, KOI and LSI based at these stations?

Also does anyone know if LM went through with the recruitment of crews for Carlisle last year when the routes were announced the first time round?. What happend to the if they were recruited?. Where they put on hold?.

[rhutch28]

Looks like another 3 ex BMI ERJ145 have transfered to Loganair now
G-EMBI now reg. G-SAJG
G-EMBJ now reg. G-SAJH
G-EMBN now reg. G-SAJI

[EGPO]

Would Loganair take any of the larger Embraer EG E175/190 as o thought at one point ,Stobart and Eastern had some from Flybe.
Eastern Did have the E170 but not sure where they are now . Was probably a better bet than the ones Loganair plan to use at LSI.

[Fly757X]

Would Loganair take any of the larger Embraer EG E175/190 as o thought at one point ,Stobart and Eastern had some from Flybe.
Eastern Did have the E170 but not sure where they are now . Was probably a better bet than the ones Loganair plan to use at LSI.

I believe they’re stored in Naples.

[10 DME ARC]

To be pedantic only one of Sumburgh's runways has sea either end, I was there 1989-91 and the fire men could still tell horrific stores of the Danair 748 and BA Chinook!! The co-pilot of the Chinook was still flying S61's at LSI and did a mean curry night at the Sumburgh hotel!! Biggest jet in my day was Maersk B732 diverting in from Faro with gravel kits on, only saw them use 15/33 mind you!
Sorry ramble over carry on......

[Rob Royston]

Would Loganair take any of the larger Embraer EG E175/190 as o thought at one point ,Stobart and Eastern had some from Flybe.
Eastern Did have the E170 but not sure where they are now . Was probably a better bet than the ones Loganair plan to use at LSI.
The E170 that Eastern / Flybe flew ABZ LSI ABZ LSI EDI LSI GLA SYY GLA LSI ABZ LSI ABZ was mostly carrying very low numbers. It also could not land in LSI in adverse weather. This had all been forecast on this thread, or maybe the Eastern thread, before it started.
There is a limited amount of passengers available at LSI and SYY, like elsewhere people prefer to travel in their cars, or even by bus or train, even when it means a ferry journey. At one time it was common for people to fly from GLA to ABZ and INV. I remember flying in a Loganair Trislander from INV to EDI around 1974. Improvements in roads, vehicles and trains has wiped these routes out.
I flew in and out of LSI for 25 years as an oil industry passenger and I can't remember ever using a scheduled airline, it was always charters. That's what worked as the companies needed to avoid overloading Shetland with people that they could not accommodate if delays occurred. The aircraft needed to carry two chopper loads and a few seats for admin folk, chopper crews, etc.

[4567]

Does that just leave one last 135 to be transferred for their Norwich operation?

[inOban]

I think you meant to say that only one runway has sea at both ends! The other full length runway is at right angles to the prevailing gales, and anyway has a big hill rising steeply from one end.

[Rob Royston]

Does that just leave one last 135 to be transferred for their Norwich operation?
Post #347 shows three 135's that have not been transferred, one at Norwich and two at Bristol. I have seen nothing about any change in that status.

[BAladdy]

Does that just leave one last 135 to be transferred for their Norwich operation?


Ex BM ER3, G-RJXP, was transferred and registered to Loganair as G-SAJR yesterday. This aircraft had been stored at NWI since 16th Feb.

it looks like they are feeling brave. They've requested slots at NCL for a second based ER3 this summer to operate Aberdeen three a day and Bergen and Oslo on what looks like alternate days. A pretty decisive step if it all happens as planned, particularly with a decent schedule on Aberdeen.
The quote above is from a post in the Newcastle thread.

[Fly757X]

Ex BM ER3, G-RJXP, was transferred and registered to Loganair as G-SAJR yesterday. This aircraft had been stored at NWI since 16th Feb.

The quote above is from a post in the Newcastle thread.

Will they now need a third ER3 considering they were already taking two?

[BAladdy]

So far Loganair have added 2 ER3’s and 10 ER4’s to there fleet transferred from BM.

6 of the 12 aircraft transferred have been transferred under the registrations G-SAJB, G-SAJC, G-SAGG, G-SAGH, G-SAGI and S-SAJR and the remaining 6 under there BM registration

Does anyone know if there is a reason why the registrations G-SAJD/E/F/J/K/L/M/N/O or P have not been used so far?.

Could it be that LM are planning to use G-SAJD/E/F/J/K and L for the 6 aircraft still flying under there BM reg?. That would leave G-SAJM/N/O and P to be used for 4 of the 5 remaining ex BM aircraft yet to be transferred.

[Fly757X]

So far Loganair have added 2 ER3’s and 10 ER4’s to there fleet transferred from BM.

6 of the 12 aircraft transferred have been transferred under the registrations G-SAJB, G-SAJC, G-SAGG, G-SAGH, G-SAGI and S-SAJR and the remaining 6 under there BM registration

Does anyone know if there is a reason why the registrations G-SAJD/E/F/J/K/L/M/N/O or P have not been used so far?.

Could it be that LM are planning to use G-SAJD/E/F/J/K and L for the 6 aircraft still flying under there BM reg?. That would leave G-SAJM/N/O and P to be used for 4 of the 5 remaining ex BM aircraft yet to be transferred.

G-SAJM is currently a DA42.

[Fly757X]

Away from the ERJ stuff, G-BVVK is now fully ADS-B compliant with G-SGTS getting the retrofit now it would seem. G-LGNA might also be getting it too.

[Rob Royston]

G-RJXC did some flights tonight, ABZ-SYY-BEB-INV-ABZ. I wonder if they are looking at adding routes for the summer.

[BAladdy]

G-RJXC did some flights tonight, ABZ-SYY-BEB-INV-ABZ. I wonder if they are looking at adding routes for the summer.
Flight was a training flight. ABZ, INV and SYY are all already airports that LM operate there ER4’s from. BEB will be served from GLA using a ER4 on a Saturday and Sunday from later this month.

[shamrock7seal]

Any indication on success or otherwise of bookings on the new BOH-JER and GCI services?

[Rob Royston]

Flight was a training flight. ABZ, INV and SYY are all already airports that LM operate there ER4’s from. BEB will be served from GLA using a ER4 on a Saturday and Sunday from later this month.

Yes I remember the BEB flights planned along with SYY and LDY from GLA.
My mind had gone back to the BEA Viscounts when planes from Glasgow and Heathrow met at Dalcross. One plane would then fly on to SYY, BEB, GLA, and the other would go to Wick, Orkney and Shetland. Reverse flights would take place later in the day, again meeting at Dalcross. Everyone would mingle in the one lounge while the luggage and fuel was sorted, including the joining passengers and it was quite a sociable event with MP's, Landowners, Ministers of State and of Religion, rubbing shoulders with crofters, tinkers, tailors, soldiers and sailors.
That could never happen today with all the security

[willy wombat]

Any indication on success or otherwise of bookings on the new BOH-JER and GCI services?

I would also be interested to know what loads look like on the "new" (ex flybmi) routes.

[scodaman]

So far Loganair have added 2 ER3’s and 10 ER4’s to there fleet transferred from BM.

6 of the 12 aircraft transferred have been transferred under the registrations G-SAJB, G-SAJC, G-SAGG, G-SAGH, G-SAGI and S-SAJR and the remaining 6 under there BM registration

Does anyone know if there is a reason why the registrations G-SAJD/E/F/J/K/L/M/N/O or P have not been used so far?.

Could it be that LM are planning to use G-SAJD/E/F/J/K and L for the 6 aircraft still flying under there BM reg?. That would leave G-SAJM/N/O and P to be used for 4 of the 5 remaining ex BM aircraft yet to be transferred.

AFAIK Flybmi G-RJXB still sitting at LDY in Flybmi colours since 16th Feb when Flybmi went bust. Flew as scheduled from STN to LDY on Saturday 16th Feb but has not moved since. I leave near LDY and could see that it was still sitting today.

I imagine it is owned now by the Administrators/Bankers.

[BAladdy]

AFAIK Flybmi G-RJXB still sitting at LDY in Flybmi colours since 16th Feb when Flybmi went bust. Flew as scheduled from STN to LDY on Saturday 16th Feb but has not moved since. I leave near LDY and could see that it was still sitting today.

I imagine it is owned now by the Administrators/Bankers.

G-CKAF/G & G-RJXA/B/G/K/L are currently registered to BM’s administrators BDO.

According to G-INFO. A application for a change of ownership and registration marks has been made for G-RJXB. application is due to be reviewed on the 18th March. No further info is available, however wouldn’t surprise me if it ends up registered to Loganair as G-SAJS

A change of ownership application (possibly to LM) has been lodged and are due for review for G-RJXA, G-RJXG, G-RJXK and G-RJXL any time now.

No applications have been made for the last 2 ER4’s G-CKAF and G-CKAG. These aircraft were I believe leased from HOP. I am guessing these aircraft will return to Hop in due course.
.

[VickersVicount]

Flight was a training flight.
Not sure it was. Planned yes, training, no.

[brownale342]

Does anyone know what IT system Loganair uses? Amadeus etc?

[sinbad73]

Does anyone know what IT system Loganair uses? Amadeus etc?

Something called Videcom.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/275511/loganair-opens-new-booking-system-and-contact-centre

[Alteagod]

I think the steam engine is slightly more advanced

[brownale342]

Ah, I was under the impression it was Amadeus Altea at airports.

[sinbad73]

Ah, I was under the impression it was Amadeus Altea at airports.


Videcom is the reservations system by the look of it. Not sure what they use at airports.

[TartinTon]

Videcom is the reservations system by the look of it. Not sure what they use at airports.

I stand to be corrected but I don't think they self-handle at any airports in which case it will be whatever system the handling agent uses i.e. probably different systems at different stations.

[NorthEasterner]

I stand to be corrected but I don't think they self-handle at any airports in which case it will be whatever system the handling agent uses i.e. probably different systems at different stations.

Whereas that's true, many airlines inc BA, EZY and BE have deployed their own systems at airports, then the GHA will use it. However given the size of Loganair's network (fairly small compared to others) in this instance, I wouldn't be surprised if they used the GHA's system, as this would be cheaper.

[ifu05596]

I stand to be corrected but I don't think they self-handle at any airports in which case it will be whatever system the handling agent uses i.e. probably different systems at different stations.
on the contrary don’t they self handle at most of the airports they operate from? Benbecula, Stornoway, Sumburgh, Barra etc. etc.? Maybe just the bigger airports like Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen Manchester etc do they use agents?

[Rob Royston]

on the contrary don’t they self handle at most of the airports they operate from? Benbecula, Stornoway, Sumburgh, Barra etc. etc.? Maybe just the bigger airports like Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen Manchester etc do they use agents?
Yes, they handled for Flybe when they were head to head.

[BAladdy]

Based on a G-INFO search the following former BM aircraft have now been registered to Loganair as of 22MAR19 :

2 x ER4’s - G-RJXA, G-RJXB
2 x ER3’s - G-RJXK, G-RJXL

Will be interesting to see what LM has planned for there jer fleet beyond this Summer

[VickersVicount]

.....parking probably. I have my concerns about this sudden and fragmented over expansion with ageing second hand inefficient jets.

[vectisman]

.....parking probably. I have my concerns about this sudden and fragmented over expansion with ageing second hand inefficient jets.
I see the usual optimism on PPRUNE is still going strong!

[rhutch28]

Based on a G-INFO search the following former BM aircraft have now been registered to Loganair as of 22MAR19 :

2 x ER4’s - G-RJXA, G-RJXB
2 x ER3’s - G-RJXK, G-RJXL

Will be interesting to see what LM has planned for there jer fleet beyond this Summer
Maybe they will use them as replacement's for the Saab 2000

[Fly757X]

Based on a G-INFO search the following former BM aircraft have now been registered to Loganair as of 22MAR19 :

2 x ER4’s - G-RJXA, G-RJXB
2 x ER3’s - G-RJXK, G-RJXL

Will be interesting to see what LM has planned for there jer fleet beyond this Summer


Anyword on XG? Currently in Alverca.

Also, with the SF34s nearing the end, what will happen to LGNM/N and GNTB/F. Will the latter be replaced by younger BFs variants (potentially more of their own) Or will be see the entire SF34 fleet disappear. If so, would we say LM will scrap their mail services all together (would be detrimental to SYY etc) or will we see second hand AT42Fs come online in the future?

[mmeteesside]

Anyword on XG? Currently in Alverca.

Also, with the SF34s nearing the end, what will happen to LGNM/N and GNTB/F. Will the latter be replaced by younger BFs variants (potentially more of their own) Or will be see the entire SF34 fleet disappear. If so, would we say LM will scrap their mail services all together (would be detrimental to SYY etc) or will we see second hand AT42Fs come online in the future?

They'll be Royal Mail contracts so they'd not be able to just drop them, either terminate the contract or sub another airline in to cover.

[oapilot]

SF34s will be around for a while yet.

[Fly757X]

SF34s will be around for a while yet.

Oh of course, not forever though, the ATR platform would be a good base but the lack of relatively young pre-loved freighters going around might be a difficult.

[BAladdy]

Loganair will operate there first flight from NCL to BRU/SVG and from GLA to DUS today.

Flights from NCL being operated by a ER3 for the duration of the summer schedule.

They will also begin operating a ER3 from NWI from tomorrow. Replacing a D328

[rhutch28]

From 1 June 2019 Loganir will be operating Glasgow - Isle Of Man, which has been without a service since Eastern withdrew

[EZYMAN]

From 1 June 2019 Loganir will be operating Glasgow - Isle Of Man, which has been without a service since Eastern withdrew

flights only bookable 31st May-2nd June

suggests TT flights only

[CandyBender]

flights only bookable 31st May-2nd June

suggests TT flights only

The three times the EDI schedule has worked for me have resulted in more than half of the passengers following each other to the tram, then onto Edinburgh Park, then onto a Glasgow train!!

[renfrew]

That is odd.
There is an excellent and frequent coach from the Airport to Glasgow.

[jijpc]

Also bookable 8 - 10 June but agree the flights aimed at visitors to the TT races.

[CandyBender]

That is odd.
There is an excellent and frequent coach from the Airport to Glasgow.

I do the journey door to door in 90 minutes using a Helensburgh train on the (slightly slower if it's a Milngavie) - Airdrie-Bathgate line to either Partick or Hyndland (equidistant for me).

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Understand G-LGNO and LGNT have gone to Orebro - maint or lease return given the recent EMB135/145 acquisitions?

[mullac30]

Understand G-LGNO and LGNT have gone to Orebro - maint or lease return given the recent EMB135/145 acquisitions?
According to Jethros, they are WFU, which makes sense seeing that both the D328s and S2000s are meant to be gone before the year is out. This surely means that it can't be long until the first ATRs start showing up at LM to operate the northern isles routes that the EMBs are incompatible with .

[VickersVicount]

...why? they have lots more S340's that can continue to operate the other routes. Cant see ATRs appearing in neartime.

[rhutch28]

Are the ERJ-145 able to operate into London City Airport, is so might we see one replace the Saab 2000 on the BA Cityflyer Isle of Man flights

[BA318]

Nope. The E135 can but the E145 can’t do LCY.

[mullac30]

...why? they have lots more S340's that can continue to operate the other routes. Cant see ATRs appearing in neartime.
Because LM will probably want a 50 seater to operate the Northern Isles routes.

[Rob Royston]

Because LM will probably want a 50 seater to operate the Northern Isles routes.
And any oil charter work that comes along. They had planned on 20 ATR42's and a few ERJ's before BM's demise. The five Saab 2000's are going this year plus the Dorniers, and the Saab 340's will be getting phased out soon, so I suppose they will be doing a bit of number crunching to come up with the new requirement.

[Rob Royston]

I see G-RJXA moving over from Bristol to Norwich, she's to get the "tartan paint" for 10th Apr and get registered as G-SAJL. I haven't seen XM coming back yet, she will be G-SAJO according to Jethro's fleet list.

[SealinkBF]

Not sure what to make of this! Morale clearly low at HIAL.

A plane carrying 33 passengers took off from a Scottish island despite duty air traffic control being closed.

https://www.shetnews.co.uk/2019/04/09/caa-steps-in-as-row-erupts-over-loganair-flight/

[scodaman]

G-RJXB still sitting at LDY.

[southside bobby]

Re-registered G-SAJO in full LOG livery appeared for the first time at STN yesterday on the LDY.

[Fly757X]

G-RJXB still sitting at LDY.

XA was transferred on the same date as XB and XA went to NWI from BRS about a week ago so XB could well be next. In other news XG has been transferred and XH is now in Alverca. (Maybe to get the wipers removed?)

[BAladdy]

LM are adding flights from EMA to BRU and INV from 2nd September.

Brussels

LM671 EMA 06:50 BRU 09:05 ER4 x567
LM675 EMA 16:10 BRU 18:20 ER4 x6

LM672 BRU 09:45 EMA 09:55 ER4 x567
LM676 BRU 19:00 EMA 19:10 ER4 x6

Inverness

LM557 EMA 12:00 INV 13:25 ER4 x6

LM558 INV 14:00 EMA 15:25 ER4 x6

[shamrock7seal]

Is anyone else concerned about Loganairs rate of expansion? I mean i'm all for growth but I just don't want it to come at the expense of the airlines very survival. I can think of much better routes than EMA-INV to get onto. Why no LHR to UK/Scottish domestics? Why is Flybe being given preferential treatment with LHR???

[ATNotts]

Is anyone else concerned about Loganairs rate of expansion? I mean i'm all for growth but I just don't want it to come at the expense of the airlines very survival. I can think of much better routes than EMA-INV to get onto. Why no LHR to UK/Scottish domestics? Why is Flybe being given preferential treatment with LHR???

EMA-INV is a very strange one. It almost smacks of flying a route for the sake of giving the aircraft something to do, and if that is the case I'd have thought that ABZ might have been a better option, or perhaps ORK, or even giving FlyBe some competition on JER. I suppose some financial incentives might have come from EMA or INV; or indeed both.

[fjencl]

I seem to remember Ryanair operating the inverness to East Midlands route years ago ?

[Fly757X]

EMA-INV is a very strange one. It almost smacks of flying a route for the sake of giving the aircraft something to do, and if that is the case I'd have thought that ABZ might have been a better option, or perhaps ORK, or even giving FlyBe some competition on JER. I suppose some financial incentives might have come from EMA or INV; or indeed both.

Jonathan Hinkles has also mentioned LDY-EMA in the future and suggested skinny routes such as a once weekly JER from LDY could be on the cards.

[VickersVicount]

i too have slight concern about picking up routes that caused BMI to fail. However EMA INV might just be a useful positioning or ferry route which coincidentally carries passengers. Any more expansion into weird thin routes and I might be concerned.
Still surprised no competition on GLA-LHR which outwith offpeak is full constantly. Some of the BE EDI-LHRs run half empty from personal experience

[SWBKCB]

i too have slight concern about picking up routes that caused BMI to fail.

I would imagine LM have a far better idea about which routes caused BMI to fail than you or I....

However EMA INV might just be a useful positioning or ferry route which coincidentally carries passengers.

But it runs in the middle of the day between the two EMA-BRU rotations?


Why no LHR to UK/Scottish domestics?

What would LM use to operate into LHR??

[goldeneye]

The EMA-INV will also allow flights to connect onto Stornoway, Benbecula, Kirkwall and Sumburgh and v.v.

Connections to and from the midlands that have been lacking since the BE franchise ended.

[BAladdy]

i too have slight concern about picking up routes that caused BMI to fail. However EMA INV might just be a useful positioning or ferry route which coincidentally carries passengers. Any more expansion into weird thin routes and I might be concerned.
Still surprised no competition on GLA-LHR which outwith offpeak is full constantly. Some of the BE EDI-LHRs run half empty from personal experience
Being a sister company of BM, they will have had access to Info on how profitable each route was. I suspect LM are only picking up the ex BM routes that were profitable.

[mullac30]

EMA-INV is not that weird if a route to run, it was just fine on an FR 738 so an ERJ145 should be fine. I believe the reason it was cut the first time was the poor short field performance of earlier 738s causing seats to be blocked out.

[SealinkBF]

Is anyone else concerned about Loganairs rate of expansion? I mean i'm all for growth but I just don't want it to come at the expense of the airlines very survival. I can think of much better routes than EMA-INV to get onto. Why no LHR to UK/Scottish domestics? Why is Flybe being given preferential treatment with LHR???

Because Flybe have the slots...

[dboy]

I always found strange, and still am, the flights from bristol to FRA, CDG, MUC and others to Europe previously operated by Flybmi, was never resumed by Loganair or another company. Bristol is left with a gap but nobody seems to fill it up.

[LesPretend]

With Bristol isn’t it a catchment that’s got used to cheap fares and baulks at having to pay the ‘proper’ price?

It was very often £200 cheaper for me to drive to Inverness to catch the EZY than catch a BMI to BRS from ABZ

[VickersVicount]

provisional reviews of some Loganair fares generally don't look desperately appealing. I think price is the first thing punters consider now and look elsewhere very quickly if not immediately reeled in.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Loganair are never going to lead on price, it’s not possible with the niche point to point markets they fly in.

[shamrock7seal]

The aircraft they operate dictates the price too, possibly even more so than the markets they operate into. They need to be super careful they don’t over extend themselves

[MerchantVenturer]

With Bristol isn’t it a catchment that’s got used to cheap fares and baulks at having to pay the ‘proper’ price?

It was very often £200 cheaper for me to drive to Inverness to catch the EZY than catch a BMI to BRS from ABZ

Two of the three main bmi regional/flybmi routes from BRS were to Frankfurt and Munich, with Lufthansa code share in the latter years on both. Both routes had seen rising passenger numbers each year since their inception: FRA's first full year in 2014 saw over 29,000 which had risen to over 53,000 in 2018. MUC rose from 18,000 in 2014 to 48,000 in 2015. We don't know how many of these were p2p or how many flew on with Lufthansa 'main line'. Neither do we know how well flybmi did out of the deal.

The loads on FRA and MUC were probably above the airline's average, although looking back over 20 years under various ownerships bmir/flybmi's annual load factor was never more than 62%. Most years it ranged between 54% and 59%. Ironically, the Bristol region is probably one of the few city regions in the country served by a small airport that could potentially sustain the high fares that bmir/flybmi usually charged on most of its routes, but it would seem that was not enough. That said, the region still loses a lot of travellers to LHR even on routes served from BRS but which might sometimes have poorer frequencies/timings.

The other main flybi route from BRS was Brussels, latterly as a code share with Brussels Airlines and before that on behalf of Brussels Airlines. As far back as last autumn the Brussels Airlines booking engine indicated a change from the end of March this year with AR8 equipment replacing the small EJets operated by flybmi. It was presumed that the aircraft would be those of CityJet. Brussels is currently not operating at all from BRS and the AR8 start date has been pushed back twice to September this year.

flybmi also operated to Paris CDG, Hamburg and Dusseldorf from Bristol with, usually, high fares and no more than average loads for the airline on the latter two. We don't know about CDG because easyJet also operates to there and in fact is doubling its frequency to 14 x weekly this summer. HAM has an Airbus and Imperial Tobacco connection between the two ends of the route but easyJet tried it a over decade ago and it didn't work for them. DUS has had Ryanair to Cologne as a near competitor in the past year or so. An earlier flybmi route to Milan MXP has been taken up by easyJet and Ryanair from this summer.

I've set this out in some detail because it shows part of what Loganair might have considered if they seriously mused over BRS, and they would be in a better position to judge than anyone having operated the routes through a sister company.

The only flybmi BRS route that Loganair has taken on is Aberdeen. HAM, DUS and CDG might not be seen as viable partly for the reasons I listed above, and the airline might be concerned that Brussels Airlines really will restart the BRU route.

That leaves FRA and MUC, probably the two routes that BRS will miss most. The Loganair ownership will know what flybmi got out of the code share and presumably it's not to their liking, even if they were in a position to operate these routes.

[Jim__]

Fares to Denmark seem pretty reasonable. A return on ABZ-EBJ is £130 in July, which compares favourably to FR (EDI-BLL) once hold baggage is factored in.

[inOban]

They seem to have cancelled several flights from the Northern Isles to EDI tomorrow. Anyone know why?

[Rob Royston]

They sent an ERJ145 on GLA BEB SYY BEB GLA this morning. I don't know if this was planned or if the s340 went tech and they had this one available. They do GLA BEB with the jet on Sat / Sun.

[Fly757X]

They sent an ERJ145 on GLA BEB SYY BEB GLA this morning. I don't know if this was planned or if the s340 went tech and they had this one available. They do GLA BEB with the jet on Sat / Sun.

I know that LGNA is in for work and has been since 28/02/19. I'll have a look now to see if anything else could've bring this to pass.

Edit: LGNF hasn't flown since last night and is in ABZ, strange to see the SF34s not flying a day during the week.

[NorthEasterner]

An EDI ERJ35 positioned to NCL (G-SAJU) due to tech issues with G-SAJB. Could be a reason why?

SAJB is now back online.

[Albert Hall]

Sure I read somewhere that tomorrow was originally expected to be a strike day through the islands. I’d guess any schedule reductions far ahead would be for this reason?

[DB6]

Albert, correct.

https://www.loganair.co.uk/travel-advice-potential-strike-action-hial-air-traffic-control-26th-april/

[SealinkBF]

They seem to have cancelled several flights from the Northern Isles to EDI tomorrow. Anyone know why?

HIAL staff had planned strike action on 26th April. Am sure its been cancelled but LM took flights off sale weeks ago.

[fjencl]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/77582-scotlands-loganair-ends-do328-operations

[rhutch28]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/77582-scotlands-loganair-ends-do328-operations
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What are the plans for the dornier now, are they going to try and sell them or are they only fit for scrap?

[LesPretend]

Sad news in a way about the Dornier. End of an era I guess. I remember meeting Roy and Merlyn Suckling when they were pitching for work out of Aberdeen.

They don’t make them like that anymore.