Gatwick-2

[adfly]

As there is unlikely to be any significant changes from now, here is a summary of long haul from Gatwick this coming winter. Let me know of any errors etc and I'll update the post.

Air Transat

Toronto - 7 weekly 313/332 (4x/3x)
Vancouver - 1 weekly 332 (Part season)

British Airways - 13x 772 based

Antigua - 7 weekly 772
Barbados - 12 weekly 772
Bermuda - 5 weekly 772
Cancun - 3 weekly 772
Cape Town - 3 weekly 772
Fort Lauderdale - 3 weekly
Grenada - 2 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Kingston - 3 weekly 772
Male - 3 weekly 772
Mauritius - 4-5 weekly 772
New York JFK - 7 weekly 772
Orlando - 7 weekly 772
Oakland - 3 weekly
Port of Spain - 5 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Providenciales - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
Punta Cana - 2 weekly 772
St Kitts - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
St Lucia - 7 weekly 772
San Jose de Costa Rica - 3 weekly 772
Tampa - 6 weekly 772
Tobago - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)

Cathay Pacific

Hong Kong - 7 weekly 359

China Airlines

Taipei - (New) 4x weekly 359 (from 01/12)

Emirates

Dubai - 21 weekly 388

Iraqi Airways

Baghdad - 1 weekly 738
Sulaymaniyah - 1 weekly 738

Med-View Airline

Lagos - 4 weekly 763/744

Norwegian Long Haul - 8x 789 based (?)

Boston - 5 weekly 789
Buenos Aires - (New) 4 weekly 789 (from 14/02)
Denver - 3 weekly 789
Fort Lauderdale - 4 weekly 789
Las Vegas - 2 weekly 789
Los Angeles - 7 weekly 789
New York JFK - 13 weekly 789
Oakland - 4 weekly 789
Orlando - 2 weekly 789
Seattle - 4 weekly 789
Singapore - 4 weekly 789

Thomas Cook Airlines - 1-2 332 based

Banjul - 3-4 weekly 321/753
Barbados - (New) 1 weekly 332
Cancun - 1-2 weekly 332
Cape Town - 3 weekly 332
Goa - 1-3 weekly 332
Sal - 1 weekly 321/753

Thomson Airways - 2x 789, 1x 788 based (?)

Barbados - 1-2 weekly 787
Boa Vista - 3 weekly 752
Cancun - 4 weekly 787
Colombo - 0.5 weekly 787
Goa - 1 weekly 787
La Romana - (New) 1 weekly 787 (from 22/11)
Liberia - 1 weekly 787
Mauritius - 1 weekly 787
Montego Bay - 3-4 weekly 787
Phuket - 1.5 weekly 787
Phu Quoc - (New) 1 weekly 787 (from 01/11)
Puerto Plata - 1 weekly 787
Puerto Vallarta - 1 weekly 787
Punta Cana - 2 weekly 787
Sal - 4 weekly 752
St Lucia - 0.5 weekly 787
Varadero - 1 weekly 787

Tianjin Airlines

Chongqing - 2 weekly 332
Tianjin - 2 weekly 332 (via CKG)

Virgin Atlantic Airways - 4x 744, 2x 333 based

Antigua - 4 weekly 333
Barbados - 7 weekly 333/744 (4x/3x)
Cancun - 1-2 weekly 744
Grenada - 2 weekly 333 (via UVF)
Havana - 3 weekly 744
Las Vegas - 4-6 weekly 744
Montego Bay - 3 weekly 744
Orlando - 8-11 weekly 744
St Lucia - 5 weekly 333
Tobago - 2 weekly 333 (via UVF)

Westjet

Calgary - 3 weekly 763
Toronto - 7 weekly 763

Summary:

Average weekly departures = 270.5-284.5 (220-236 last winter)
Average daily departures = 39-41 (31-34 last winter)

Busiest Routes:

Barbados - 21-22 weekly
Dubai - 21 weekly
New York JFK - 20 weekly
Orlando - 17-20 weekly
Toronto - 14 weekly
St Lucia - 12.5 weekly
Antigua - 11 weekly
Cancun - 9-11 weekly
Fort Lauderdale - 8 weekly
Las Vegas - 6-8 weekly
Hong Kong - 7 weekly
Los Angeles - 7 weekly
Oakland - 7 weekly

[Skipness One Echo]

Norwegian are moving from 4/5 to 8 based long haul in the North Atlantic WINTER? That's....interesting timing.

[Seljuk22]

Should be even more once AUS and ORD will start next summer.

[Skipness One Echo]

Agreed, something is going to have to give with DY, one of BA or DY will blink.

[nguba]

Well IAG has cash of nearly €8bn....

IAG Printer Friendly Version - News Release (http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-rnsArticle_Print&ID=2289772)

[racedo]

Well IAG has cash of nearly €8bn....

IAG Printer Friendly Version - News Release (http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-rnsArticle_Print&ID=2289772)


Real cash or cash on account for future flights.

[LAX_LHR]

New 6 weekly Larnaca route with Cobalt. Starts 30th October

[nguba]

Norwegian is reported to be making ORD daily and increasing frequency on LAX for Summer 2018:

Norwegian plans further London Gatwick - US service increase in S18 :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274467/norwegian-plans-further-london-gatwick-us-service-increase-in-s18/)

[True Blue]

Poster on another forum claiming Cathy will be moving their HKG flight over to Lhr? Any news/views?

[A320.b744]

Poster on another forum claiming Cathy will be moving their HKG flight over to Lhr? Any news/views?

I know that Cathay are adding three new European destinations, and I've heard rumours that one European destination will be scrapped (as well as two in Asia).

It makes a lot of sense to consolidate operations at LHR - I believe they only started flying to LGW because of slot restrictions at LHR.

[T250]

Quite the opposite in fact, only change at LGW will be A350 changes to B777 and maybe twice a day :cool:

[True Blue]

BA starting Toronto 3x weekly from May 18. Wouldn't you think there are lots more destinations with less competition they could try?

[Skipness One Echo]

Vegas is also coming back, you go where you have a decent sized market. BA already operate both out of LHR too.

[Pizzacake]

Any ideas what aircraft will be on the Vegas route ?? The lgw-las used to be the 777 til it caught fire. Be nice to do the flight on a newer aircraft than the old 747.
Tho you get the feeling as it can be lively flight they put the older equipment on it.

[True Blue]

Yes Vegas is also on sale. Does this mean another B777 based at Lgw?

[canberra97]

Any ideas what aircraft will be on the Vegas route ?? The lgw-las used to be the 777 til it caught fire. Be nice to do the flight on a newer aircraft than the old 747.
Tho you get the feeling as it can be lively flight they put the older equipment on it.

Do you actually know what your talking about?

[Pizzacake]

Well while it may not have been the reason the lgw-las service stopped, it was around the same time as a fire ended in a hull loss. Having been on the lhr-las flight it was very much a lively flight with excited passengers starting the party where possible. It was also a very tatty interior.
Essentially is there any chance of getting a shiney new 787 next summer on the route ?
Rather than just trying to be smart, maybe contribute ?

[canberra97]

Someone smart enough would never have posted in the way you had hence the 'smart' reply.

The aircraft involved in the accident at Las Vegas was not a hull loss as it was repaired and put back into service and was replaced at LGW by a spare from LHR.

No single aircraft is flying any single route so the previous ceasing of LGW to Las Vegas had nothing to do with the accident at Las Vegas.

The LGW British Airways long haul fleet is purely Boeing 777-200 so no chance of seeing a 'shiny new 787' on the route for next summer if ever.

And what do you actually mean by a 'lively flight with excited passengers starting the party where possible'?

What sort of ridiculous comment is that, you are aware it was the outbound flight ex Las Vegas flight!

[Vokes55]

At the rate that BA and Norwegian are expanding, soon the South Terminal will run out of stands capable of handling wide body aircraft. Only 16 widebody gates at South, with 22-23 DY/BA based aircraft next Summer. Add in TS (up to four a day in the Summer), CX, MT and occasionally TK and UX, it's going to be very crowded on Pier 2/3.

[Pizzacake]

The aircraft involved in the accident at Las Vegas was not a hull loss as it was repaired and put back into service and was replaced at LGW by a spare from LHR.

No single aircraft is flying any single route so the previous ceasing of LGW to Las Vegas had nothing to do with the accident at Las Vegas.

The LGW British Airways long haul fleet is purely Boeing 777-200 so no chance of seeing a 'shiny new 787' on the route for next summer if ever.

And what do you actually mean by a 'lively flight with excited passengers starting the party where possible'?

What sort of ridiculous comment is that, you are aware it was the outbound flight ex Las Vegas flight!

So, wiki has the aircraft listed as a hull loss and repaired. Mea culpa.

Fleets operating different services change, fleets operating out of bases change, hence the question.

And if you where smart enough to read, I've flown LHR-LAS and return. The flight to LAS was lively, the return leg less so ( broke, hungover, both) Your smartness seems to have confused two independent statements. 🤔

[canberra97]

Any ideas what aircraft will be on the Vegas route ?? The lgw-las used to be the 777 til it caught fire. Be nice to do the flight on a newer aircraft than the old 747.
Tho you get the feeling as it can be lively flight they put the older equipment on it.

Ok then well your first question was,

'any ideas what aircraft will be on the Vegas route'?

I replied in the way I did because the obvious answer to that is a Boeing 777-200 seeing that all British Airways long haul from LGW is based around that aircraft, was I being smart of course I was because everyone knows that so your question wasn't smart.:=

[Pizzacake]

See I don't follow Gatwick or BA so don't know that. So not everyone knows it and if I knew it I wouldn't have asked. Doh.

[canberra97]

For someone who doesn't follow Gatwick you seem to be only posting on the Gatwick thread!

British Airways long haul operation out of London Gatwick Airport has been based purely around the Boeing 777-200 since 2003.

May I ask what do you follow?

[_aax1]

Leave off mate, take a chill pill. Let people ask questions!

[VickersVicount]

Quite the opposite in fact, only change at LGW will be A350 changes to B777 and maybe twice a day :cool:
That would surprise me.

[CabinCrewe]

Seems some more info on the higher density BA 772 initial routings. Presumably the rest of the 3 class to follow British Airways outlines London Gatwick HD 777-200ER routes in S18 :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/274586/british-airways-outlines-london-gatwick-hd-777-200er-routes-in-s18)
BA Y seats seemed bad enough as they were!

[Ph1l1pncl]

BA aren't adding an extra 777 to Gatwick next year, they are using the slack in the existing fleet along with a reduction of 1 flight per week to Orlando, Kingston and Oakland to fund the resumption of Vegas and new Toronto route.

[vectisman]

Do you know this for certain? I am not totally convinced. Some of the slack will be needed to enable the 777 refits to continue. Also several new 787s being delivered Heathrow between now and end of 2018.

[toledoashley]

If need be, they will do so with LHR 777's. Certainly no 'new' aircraft types at Gatwick.

[vectisman]

No there will be no new aircraft types but probably more 777s over time.
25 are being refitted so I expect some of those will be based at Heathrow too. That will also make the changes being bases easier to accommodate.

[canberra97]

I don't think 'any new aircraft types' at Gatwick was mentioned just that new Boeing 787's being delivered to LHR will displace Boeing 772 to LGW.

[vectisman]

Exactly Canberra97. Thank you.

[Ph1l1pncl]

Do you know this for certain? I am not totally convinced. Some of the slack will be needed to enable the 777 refits to continue. Also several new 787s being delivered Heathrow between now and end of 2018.

Yes, I work for BA and on Yammer ( internal forum) someone asked if this meant that LGW was getting an extra 777 and someone from the fleet planning team replied back saying no. Just the slack in the existing schedule, Cape Town will have ended when Vegas starts and the reduction in OAK, MCO and KIN will fund the Toronto. Obviously some aircraft will rotate from Heathrow during that time too, but based aircraft will remain the same.

[True Blue]

So is Easyjet about to announce a connection service with Norwegian and Westjet at Lgw using Gatwick Connects?

[True Blue]

Just did a dummy booking from Bfs to Sin on Easyjet.com.

[Skipness One Echo]

Not available on the app yet...

[EIFFS]

Probably why MoL was miffed and no Med flights from LGW with DY next summer

[lfc84]

i think it's a promotion of the gatwick connects service that's been going for a few years (specifically on easyjet.com) rather than anything new as such

[pabely]

The big plus is to do two flights on a single EZY booking via their engine.
You can also do this for just EZY fights as well so Jersey to Gatwick to Reykjavik on a single booking, 2 sectors.

[atakacs]

Furthermore I understand that they plan to offer a similar service from Milan Malpensa, Geneva, Amsterdam, Paris CdG and Barcelona.
Wonder who would be the partner companies...

[A320.b744]

Norwegian have an (albeit limited) long haul network from BCN and CDG, so I imagine easyJet will partner with them like they are doing from LGW. LEVEL could be another partner from BCN, though given their links with Vueling I doubt it.

AMS, MXP and GVA will almost certainly just become easyJet euro-hubs given the lack of long haul low-cost operations from these airports.

[daz211]

Air Canada rouge in summer 2018 season is cancelling seasonal Vancouver – London Gatwick route, previously scheduled as 3 weekly flight.

[willy wombat]

Just been through the North Terminal with the new duty free maze. Truely horrible.

[Alsacienne]

In total agreement willy wombat. Didn't think that Gatwick would fall into the same hellhole as Stansted and Manchester. Got ripped off too ... bought two bars of Cadbury's at World Duty Free for £5 each ... and then found a 3 for 2 at WHSmith in the depths of the terminal for £10. No proper 'restaurants' just fast food under many flags of convenience. Filthy jetway/airbridge. On arrival, did not appreciate the long walk to Border control particularly over the Skybridge with its unavoidable 'rainforest' sound bites. Comforting to see from the information boards that there are toilets en route to border control after that cacophony. HSBC should be ashamed of themselves for inflicting this on us!

[canberra97]

Air Canada rouge in summer 2018 season is cancelling seasonal Vancouver – London Gatwick route, previously scheduled as 3 weekly flight.

Do you know if Toronto will be increased to daily again now that Vancouver is cancelled?

[SypmathtyFTD]

Hi all, I have been enjoying this forum for a while now so it's first post time...

I've heard that partly due to the reduced winter schedule by Thomas Cook and the loss of the LGW-BFS FR route, their ground handler Menzies Aviation is asking for volunteers to take unpaid leave of between 2 - 6 weeks.

Could they be going the same way as Aviator?

[TartinTon]

Aren't the 3 x daily LGWBFS slots the ones that FR gained as remedy slots following the IAG/EI merger? My understanding was that they had to be operated for 3 (or 5, can't remember which) years. Does this mean the slots go back to BA or do they have to offered out again?

[planedrive]

Menzies have also lost the EZY contract so will be many many people moving/sitting around doing not much after the handover.

[T250]

The same people will just do the same work for a different company?

Typical tupe situation...

[LAX_LHR]

Don't remember seeing this announced, but Thomson (or TUI, whatever they are this week) are launching Krabi flights.

Every 2 weeks this winter on Mondays and some Wednesday's:

TOM008 LGW 2130 KBV 1600+1
TOM009 KBV 1800 LGW 0005+1

Nice new route to have!

[ECR]

Aren't the 3 x daily LGWBFS slots the ones that FR gained as remedy slots following the IAG/EI merger? My understanding was that they had to be operated for 3 (or 5, can't remember which) years. Does this mean the slots go back to BA or do they have to offered out again?

From what I remember they got 5 slot pairs, 2 of which had to be operated to Dublin, 1 to Belfast, and the other 2 to either Dublin or Belfast.

It will be interesting to see what happens (if anything) with regards to the remedy slots.

[7Three7Specialist]

Menzies have also lost the EZY contract so will be many many people moving/sitting around doing not much after the handover.

Menzies South / North terminal op has been split for months now. Will hardly affect them.

[GAZMO]

FR will be back in summer 18 on the LGW BFS route, four daily flights. Flights are available to book now.
Winter cancellation must likely due to DUB being one of the airport having a real shortage of pilots, so pull BFS LGW and move crews to DUB for the winter

[True Blue]

Arrived into Gatwick yesterday afternoon from Istanbul. It was very sad to see I think 9 Monarchs lined up, idle. Sad for all the staff involved and the history that brought Monarch to where it was before it all went wrong.

When I arrived at Border Control, not one passenger in front of me. Through via one of the machine readers in seconds. Back up to security for my domestic flight, again through in 2/3 minutes. A great experience, maybe I was lucky with the time of day. The No 1 lounge was great on the way out.

The scanner did bleep yesterday as I went through, I suspect a random check as I had no metal on me. So I had to have a full scan. It picked up a mass in my pocket that had to be investigated, my folded Ryanair boarding pass! That I found pathetic, although that is not the fault of Lgw, that I lay at the feet of Transport Dept and machine manufacturer. Is there a need to be that particular?

[Jamie2k9]

Is there any logical reason why MON flights are still displayed on departure boards coming into the fourth day of no flights.

[MKY661]

I'm guessing they'll stay on there until the CAA stops flights for them.

[daz211]

IAG poised to take Monarch slots at LGW for LEVEL long haul low cost and go head to head with Norwegian

[Jerry123]

So what are BA going to do with their densified 777s? Thought they were going to combat Norwegian using them?

[Plane.Silly]

It seems the most likely option on either slot scenario

If slots can be sold - BA outbids EZY and uses them as previously suggested
If slots revert to pool - new entrants get first dibs, LEVEL is technically a newcomer so would be best placed to take them

Should be interesting whatever the outcome

[cornishsimon]

Yep any of the IAG airlines that don’t already serve gatters would get first dibs as new entrants.

So level, Iberia, and Iberia regional. Also not sure how aer lingus regional would be viewed and potentially cityflyer with the scope clause.

If sold off I expect IAG to go to bat big time to get the slots for BA over U2 and Norwegian.

[IB4138]

So, based on the "new" entrant senario, couldn't easyJet use easyJet Europe to apply for the slots?

[canberra97]

Because there is no EasyJet Europe, EasyJet recently obtained an Austrian AOC it's still EasyJet.

[IB4138]

Well what's this then?

easyJet Europe Airline GmbH.

Similar set up to easyJet Switzerland

Both part of the easyJet Group. No different to IAG's different airlines.

[canberra97]

But would that still actually include them as 'new entrants'?

[toledoashley]

Easy has a similar structure to Wizz now - we could see Wizz Air UK, Wizz Air Hungary and Wizz Air Ukraine soon...

[EIFFS]

Norwegian already have all the slots they need for their planned long haul operation out of LGW, I doubt that EasyJet will be bothered either, the demise of Monarch has already pushed up prices and yield for other based airlines.

BA may well be interested as a spoiler against Norwegian but they are unlikely to use the dream liner and that has a cost advantage over the 777 & 330

[davidjohnson6]

Heathrow is pretty close to full (unless you want to pay big piles of cash) for slots, with no prospect of change for many years
Why would Easyjet, be it through their UK, Swiss or Austrian subsidiary not choose to grab some Gatwick slots ?
BA after all have long had a policy of buying Heathrow slots and it has served them well - Easyjet should consider a similiar policy

[Plane.Silly]

Monarchs slots won't be sold after all. They've now reverted to the slot pool. Now we wait to see who pounces on them...

[True Blue]

So Ryanair seems to be giving up the Belfast route, transferring it to Stansted. Is that more slots becoming available as well as Monarch?

[LGS6753]

Monarchs slots won't be sold after all. They've now reverted to the slot pool. Now we wait to see who pounces on them...

Not quite. The Court's judgement is to be appealed, so no pouncing just yet.

[wallp]

I see that Virgin start Barbados flights from Heathrow next month. Is this the start of a gradual erosion of remaining services from Gatwick?

[SealinkBF]

I very much doubt it. More like VS ensuring they aren't wasting their (mortgaged) Heathrow slots...

[canberra97]

The new LHR to Barbados flights from VS are scheduled flights but are also being made available in cooperation with P&O Cruises who are offering their passengers that are joining their cruises in Barbados on the Britannia and Ventura a LHR departure for the first time on a scheduled airline along with their current LGW and regional departure points using charter flights operated by TUI.

This new addition to the VS network from LHR does not mean the gradual erosion of LGW operations as VS has available slots at LHR to accommodate the extra flights to Barbados which is a premier destination that can operate in conjunction with LGW.

I think it's a good move by VS to open up LHR to Barbados and with the commitment of P&O Cruises this new seasonal route will be a success.

[cornishsimon]

So Ryanair seems to be giving up the Belfast route, transferring it to Stansted. Is that more slots becoming available as well as Monarch?

Ryanair changes airport on route between London and Belfast
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41921476

Ryanair slots have gone back to IAG.

[EIFFS]

We’re planning to base 11 787 Dreamliners at Gatwick in time for the summer season, so we needed to have the right infrastructure in place to ensure the smooth delivery of our operation.

Norwegian commenting on its new additional check in area, 738 numbers rumoured to be up by 2 additional units

[Skipness One Echo]

What happened to retrenching short haul to concentrate on long haul?

[toledoashley]

Strengthening Scandi, not Med/Sun routes from what I've heard.

[Vokes55]

Norwegian doing some TUI flights again next year, additional capacity after Monarch folded.

[EIFFS]

Difficult to see where you draw the line with new entrants, muliple AOC’s within the same brand such as easyJet & Norwegian probably have a weaker case than Level, not sure how say in matters GAL have?

[scr1]

IAG looking at flights to Eilat

British Airways owner mulling London-Eilat flights - Israel News - Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/British-Airways-owner-mulling-London-Eilat-flights-513836)

[BAladdy]

Have just been reading on another site that QR are rumoured to have been granted daily slots at LGW from March next year... The slots are for a 06:45 arrival and 08:45 departure and the flights are rumoured to be going to be operated by a A350....

Has anyone else heard anything?..

[canberra97]

IAG looking at flights to Eilat

British Airways owner mulling London-Eilat flights - Israel News - Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/British-Airways-owner-mulling-London-Eilat-flights-513836)

In that article it states IAG airlines rather than British Airways operating the flights if they occurred but I have to question as to why couldn't it be British Airways operating to Eilat which I personally think would be an ideal addition to the British Airways network especially with the forthcoming opening of the new airport at Eilat and the growth in future tourism to the area.

Royal Jordanian Airlines operate various charter flights throughout Europe from Aqaba which is just around the coast from Eilat and that's another destination and airline I am surprised hasn't announced any expansion to LGW.

Good news if the forthcoming announcement regarding Qatar making a return to LGW comes true as the planned flight schedule has obviously been made public.

[Flightrider]

Qatar have applied for slots for a double-daily 787 operation, but haven't got the slots they need. However, given the commercial and ownership ties with IAG who have just been dumped back with the Ryanair Belfast slots, you don't need the brains of an Archbishop to see how their slots may be generated.

[canberra97]

But those slots previously used by Ryanair from LGW to BFS are remedy slots involved when IAG took over Aer Lingus and although they have returned to IAG I believe they are only to be used from LGW to either Belfast airport and not reallocated to another destination.

With the loss of Monarch I am sure there are enough slots available if Qatar decided to operate twice daily into LGW which I find hard to believe as I would assume at least a daily flight initially.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.ttgmedia.com//news/news/gatwicks-growth-hit-by-monarchs-collapse-12290

[alm1]

In that article it states IAG airlines rather than British Airways operating the flights if they occurred but I have to question as to why couldn't it be British Airways operating to Eilat which I personally think would be an ideal addition to the British Airways network especially with the forthcoming opening of the new airport at Eilat and the growth in future tourism to the area.

Royal Jordanian Airlines operate various charter flights throughout Europe from Aqaba which is just around the coast from Eilat and that's another destination and airline I am surprised hasn't announced any expansion to LGW.


Have you seen fares on the new routes from Europe to Eilat? Ryanair has 10 euros flat for any day be it tommorow or in two months time on many of them (ok, exagerating a little bit, but the point stands). And these are very long flights.
I do not think it is possible to make money on them even with generous subsidies from Israel side.

[canberra97]

With far greater awareness of Eilat and with the help of the Israeli Tourism I am sure a prestige name such as British Airways would benefit the local tourism, if advertised well a flight or holiday in Eilat could be no different than taking a similar trip from the United Kingdom to the Canary Islands.

On a side note you mention Ryanair but Ryanair don't offer any direct flights from the United Kingdom to Israel let alone Eilat so you can't really use them as an example, in comparison have you not seen how flights are fairly expensive from London to Tel Aviv.

[Flightrider]

As long as no-one else wants them to fly to Belfast, IAG can use the slots for whatever it wishes. The slots are only ring-fenced to the Belfast route if used by another operator like Ryanair. Same as the LHR situation - between Little Red finishing and Flybe starting, there wasn't a huge influx of BA frequency on EDI + ABZ - they simply used the slots on any route of their choosing.

[nguba]

Does anyone know why BA2722 LGW-JFK was cancelled today?

[cornishsimon]

Reported elsewhere as tech aircraft.

[True Blue]

If Qatar do return, would that tempt Etihad back?

Will the 4th daily service from Emirates ever start, or is it dead in the water?

[canberra97]

I wouldn't say 'dead in the water' regarding the forth DXB flight from EK I am sure once traffic picks up again we're eventually see a 4th daily flight but I think it will be a while before that is announced.

EY are actually shrinking some of their worldwide destinations and they are not the fittest of the ME3 so I can't see them resuming LGW up against EK and the possible resumption of QR.

The rumours or news regarding QR returning to LGW has gone rather quiet, has there been anything officially confirmed yet!

[True Blue]

Not that I have seen.

[nguba]

Reported elsewhere as tech aircraft.

Thanks. I notice it's cancelled again today!

[mhk77]

What are the chances of BA or possibly one of the others starting a Belgrade service? Seems strange that almost all the main cities in that part of the world (Tirana, Ljubljana, Zagreb, Sofia, Bucharest even Pristina etc) are served from Gatwick and not Belgrade.

[canberra97]

Up until last summer Air Serbia did offer a limited service from LGW to Belgrade but all flights are now consolidated at LHR.

I don't think that the demand is there for BA to fly to Belgrade either from LGW or LHR and Air Serbia have it covered from LHR.

No Zagreb from LGW anymore as EasyJet ceased flying the route about two years ago.

As far as demand goes on a personal side I have been to every European capital bar from Belgrade and Pristina.

[compton3bravo]

Of course if you really wanted to fly to Belgrade and Pristina you could fly from Luton, but that is a no-no for you Canberra so hard cheese!

[canberra97]

Oh yes as you are fully aware LTN is a definite no-no for me.

Not really hard cheese Compton3bravo because if and when I do eventually get to go to Belgrade I can always fly with Air Serbia from LHR and you can also buy seat only on the Germania charter flights from LGW to Pristina so again avoiding LTN altogether so not really 'hard cheese' after all.

[gilesdavies]

Looks like we'll be seeing IAG and British Airways expanding at Gatwick...
BA owner IAG 'secures Monarch's Gatwick slots' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42142349)

They have beaten easyJet and Norwegian to get Monarch's old slots.

Does anyone know how many slots that is?

I think they use to base about 8-9 aircraft at Gatwick, so if the aircraft were flying 2-3 return sectors a day that will about 16-24 landing/take-off sets...

Be interesting to see how they are allocated, could they go to BA or maybe grow Vueling more at the airport.

I wonder if we could see IAG start low cost/long haul operation from LGW, with a few aircraft, maybe with the Level brand. Maybe transfers a few 777-200's in a high density configuration?

[vectisman]

Copy of my post from Monarch thread.

The BA brand at Gatwick is strong particularly the Holidays division. I expect BA will use a lot of the slots. BA have a few airbus deliveries next year. Easy enough to keep older ones longer than expected. Don't forget there are also 30 or so ex monarch aircraft seeking new homes. Perhaps a couple more 777s based at LGW too. Level have two aircraft at the moment with another 3 due but also proposed new bases in mainland Europe. I also believe BA long haul from m Gatwick makes good money already. Other airlines in the group may use some of them. However for the time being I think BA at Gatwick will use most of them.

[LGS6753]

I have read somewhere about "18 slot pairs", presumably involving 9 based aircraft.

[01475]

I'm thinking BA longhaul, maybe a few bits and pieces to Level and Iberia / Vueling?

Can't decide if I should put Aer Lingus to Eire either high up on the list or nowhere on it at all.

[LAX_LHR]

I can see Vueling. They applied for a 2 aircraft base at MAN but I can see all resources shifted to Gatwick to run core Spain and Portugal routes.

[BCALBOY]

The Monarch slots basically facilitate effecient utilization of 9 based shorthaul aircraft operating 2 round trips a days per unit ( maybe 3 with a night departure on some days).
So there are roughly 9 departure slots between 0700-0900 , 9 arrivals 1300-1500, second wave of 9 departures 1400-1700 arriving back 2100-2300.
There are very few early morning arrivals at LGW and very few mid morning departure slots.

It won't be easy to schedule many long haul services at commercially popular times and
without long turnarounds and sub optimal utilization of aircraft.

[cornishsimon]

BUT. BA / IAG would be free to shuffle around slots to accommodate anything they’d want. An early AM departure could turn into an arrival ?

[BCALBOY]

Shuffling doesn't increase the number of early arrivals ,unless they dump current BA shorthaul nightstops which compromises those schedules and affects utilization of those aircraft.

[Alteagod]

Would they be allowed back on the BFS/BHD route since FR gave up the route in favour of STN. All part of the EU conditions of BA buying EI they had to give up the BHD LGW flights.

[BCALBOY]

FR have to hand the slots back to IAG ,so unless someone else wants to pick up the BHD/LGW route and use these slots ,I don't think there is anything to stop either EI or BA reintroducing the service with these slots ( regardless of the OM slots ).

Think IAG are concentrating on yield improvement on BHD/LHR ( hence frequency reduction this winter) , so they probably don't want to add London capacity elsewhere unless they think it's totally different market.

[Alteagod]

As I suspected

[vectisman]

Monarch had 154 slot pairs (not total slots) a week at Gatwick which is equivalent to about 22 departures/arrivals a day. So room for quite a bit of expansion. On some days in Summer departures were higher than 22, more like your 25 but less of course in Winter. I think Monarch based 10 aircraft at Gatwick during the summer each operating 2 to 3 departures a day (so 2 or 3 slot pairs).
With greater flexibility of scheduling as a result of these new slots BA could put together an impressive long medium and short haul schedule. I expect planning has been going on longer than we realise. I remember when Easyjet bought the Flybe slots BA was interested but said they had come about too early for their plans. With BA Gatwick now in much better shape and I believe profitable it is now time to put plans into action. However I expect other IAG airlines may get a look in. I am not convinced about Level turning up that quickly or at least substantially. The refurbished, densified and fully paid for BA 777s will allow them to compete more effectively with Norwegian. The BA brand is strong at Gatwick and certainly long haul lucrative. I doubt if they would wish to dilute that. I also expect some Airbus aircraft will be transferred from Heathrow or leased in to expand short haul network. New A320/A321 are due at Heathrow so others can be kept longer if necessary. I am also not convinced about Vueling/Iberia Express expanding greatly. BA is popular and known at Gatwick. Again why undermine it? That is not to say that other IAG airlines will not expand their presence.

[Vokes55]

So there are roughly 9 departure slots between 0700-0900 , 9 arrivals 1300-1500, second wave of 9 departures 1400-1700 arriving back 2100-2300.
There are very few early morning arrivals at LGW and very few mid morning departure slots.

But there are plenty of early morning arrival slots available at Gatwick. LGW is only severely slot restricted at peak times for based aircraft (early morning departures, late evening arrivals).

If BA want to use the slots to expand long haul, the biggest problem they will face will be gate space.

[7Three7Specialist]

Gatwick extending Pier 6 and plans to move A380 to Pier 5.

Gatwick Media Centre ? Gatwick and Bechtel partner to deliver major construction (http://www.mediacentre.gatwickairport.com/press-releases/2017/06-12-17.aspx)

[southside bobby]

NAX are announcing the purchase of 28 LGW slots for Summer 2018 from LLC.

[inOban]

Excuse my ignorance, but what's LLC?

[southside bobby]

Sorry....
LLC/Small Planet Airlines of Lithuania.

[canberra97]

In Oban

Yes it's a lot easier for everyone to understand when the airlines or airports official IATA codes are used.

[southside bobby]

Apologies... as viewing my post again I see I should have stated it is 28 slots PER WEEK purchased.

[kcockayne]

In Oban

Yes it's a lot easier for everyone to understand when the airlines or airports official IATA codes are used.
Not for me. As an ex ATCO I’m much more familiar with the ICAO codes, both for airlines & aerodromes.

[inOban]

Were Small Planet Airlines using the slots, ie what routes/rotations are being dropped?

[southside bobby]

Yes kcockayne but you will find no condescension from that quarter I believe.

[Flitefone]

Were Small Planet Airlines using the slots, ie what routes/rotations are being dropped?

The carrier operated flights from London Gatwick to destinations including Corfu, Tirana, Larnaca, Preveza, Zakynthos, Kos, Palma de Mallorca, Banjul, Skiathos and Chania this year in co-operation with several tour operators.

[OltonPete]

The TUI schedule has at least two Norwegian aircraft operating full-time next summer (28 flights) is that the same as per other years?

I know Norwegian have long operated for TUI/Thomson but I wasn't sure if it was dedicated aircraft or mix and matched with the Norwegian scheduled services.

[Vokes55]

It's actually meant to be three Norwegian aircraft operating for TUI next Summer, one up on previous years. They are mixed between all of Norwegian (NAI) aircraft at LGW.

[tonyb]

Small Planet having sold slots to Norwegian what happens to all the tour operator flights to Greece and other destinations for the likes of Olympic holidays and Sunvil.
Customers will want to fly from LGW so any ideas on what is to be?

[compton3bravo]

The Sunvil programme from Gatwick looks like being flown by a Germania B737 except one flight operated by Thomas Cook.

[Seljuk22]

airBaltic will launch 2 weekly flights to Tallinn
https://www.airbaltic.com/en/bottom_menu/press-room/press_releases/2017/airbaltic-launches-new-flights-from-london-to-tallinn

[01475]

According to Routesonline:

BT649 TLL1600 – 1700LGW 73C 2
BT649 TLL1655 – 1755LGW 73C 6

BT650 LGW1745 – 2235TLL 73C 2
BT650 LGW1840 – 2330TLL 73C 6

Trying to work out if / how this fits around BT's existing services in Tallinn. Either more to come or something else going?

[EIFFS]

More Norwegian med flights now loaded, just Canary isles to load ( hopefully) talk of 3rd daily JFK but slots at JFK a sticking point.

[toledoashley]

The Canaries are not happening, what has been loaded is it for short haul, although I believe more long haul is yet to be announced.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Been ages since I was at LGW but anyone know why Eire/domestic passengers have to be bused to the terminal. Cabin crew indicated a recent regulation changes on arrival (?). Using an air bridge to exit the aircraft then onto a bus.

Is it just a case of avoiding immigration or was there some rule change recently?

[Skipness One Echo]

No longer allowed to mix CTA arrivals with International arrivals. Think this has been going on for a while, they don’t even have a domestic channel at Gatwick South, which for an airport which has greatly improved and has high ambitions, is one hell of an oversight.

Used to get a ticket on arrival which allowed you to bypass the passport check, then later a boarding card was all you needed for staff to waive you through. The issue seems to be there were mixing in with arriving international passengers, hence this was fairly open to abuse.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Where the bus dropped us appear to be CTA only, baggage belt 8 was enclosed from the rest. Looked like EI/FR and BA share the single area.

One amuses they were split to avoid people slipping into CTA unchecked.

There must be 20-25 CTA flights on average and even more when BFS operated and those alone probally generate over 2 million passengers in S Terminal. No room in N?

[Skipness One Echo]

Everything was shuffled so IAG are now in South. easyJet got the rule of the roost at North to end the split terminal operation.
So yes there is CTA/Domestic arrivals area at South but it’s all bussing now. Can’t believe they built a whole new Pier 1 and didn’t manage a basic CTA arrivals flow!

[willy wombat]

Just experienced a BA South Terminal arrival from Edinburgh. Appalling. Normally with a bussed arrival you fill the first bus then it leaves etc but oh no, the first bus was filled but then waited until all pax disembarked and left last so the club pax who were off first arrived at domestic arrivals last. Wonderful. At domestic arrivals you have to climb four flights of stairs (you can stand in a very long queue for the lift if you wish). Following a departure from EDI where the airbridge wasn’t used so queued on the ramp in the rain and cold it was a totally 3rd world experience except in the 3rd world it would have been warm. No coincidence both airports under the same ownership and a great example of why LGW should not be entrusted with London’s next runway and if BA serious about domestic Club at LGW they need to get their act in gear.

[Northernstar51]

Could not agree more! Domestic / CTA Arrivals is a joke. There must be circa 2mppa using what is basically a fire escape. The domestic product needs some serious investment. The contrast between Heathrow and LGW is huge. Now avoid LGW domestic if I can.

[dastocks]

The bussing arrangements for domestic arrivals at LGW go back at least as far as early 2015. I thought the new Pier 1 at LGW was going to include direct access to domestic baggage reclaim, but obviously it hasn't happened.

The regulars (I did domestic arrivals for every week for nearly a year) work out how to increase their chances of being first off the buses (in order to get the lift) when they get to the terminal. Being one of the last off the plane can be an advantage especially as it minimises the time stand on the bus. The staircase at the terminal end is only 2 floors and it's no worse than getting off the air-bridge at one of the Pier 2 gates and then finding the escalator is out of service, a frequent occurrence.

I'm now doing international arrivals every week at the South terminal and, on balance, I think I prefer the domestic arrivals experience.

[Skipness One Echo]

Speaking of operations, can anyone answer this.
easyJet flight today off 109 to AMS delayed due winds at the Dutch end. Queued to be penned into gate area before 2 hour delay announced and we were set free to roam wild once more. So WHY when the flight was called were we bussed from Gate 45 on two buses back to the very same aircraft on 109. Now was a little bit windy so the aircraft were off the airbridges and using steps on the south stands on pier 7 but why couldn’t we just go down the stairs from the terminal like many other LGW EZY flights.
Is there a wind limit to those particular jetties that means a light breeze takes them out of service?

[VickersVicount]

.... and there was us thinking you were a BA frequent flyer..

[7Three7Specialist]

Winds wouldn't affect the jetty like that. Easyjet dont wanna pay for jetties hence why nearly everything is stepped front/back. Posher Ryanair!

[Skipness One Echo]

Nah they use jetties at Gatwick frequently as well as rear steps. :)
.... and there was us thinking you were a BA frequent flyer..
I am sweety, but there’s no difference on short haul x Simply smashing you’ve discovered thinking though. #bighighfive

[The96er]

Easyjet don't wanna pay for jetties hence why nearly everything is stepped front/back.

A commonly held myth. There's actually no additional charge for Airbridges. The reason steps are used at front and back is purely for speed of turn-around.

[dastocks]

Skipness One Echo

I don't know, but I would imagine that using the buses would keep some options open for a decision to be made later - e.g. drag the aircraft off the stand to make way for an arrival, or use a different aircraft altogether.

[easyflyer83]

That’s true, most airports don’t charge for airbridges. It’s a speed of turnaround decision which is made locally at each station. If anything, it’s probably more expensive to use steps or atleast some underlying cost of using steps as this has to be factored into the contract with the handling agent.

[Vokes55]

Besides the bus contract is with a different company and would've cost the company extra (it was £1 per passenger when National Express operated it many moons ago).

Only reasonable answer I could offer is that Gate 45 is closer to the departure lounge - when passengers have been called for boarding and then dispersed, there is a reluctance to call them again until there is a reasonable assurance that the flight can depart. Calling passengers back to 109 would've taken a fair amount of extra time.

[LBIA]

British Airways has just confirmed its largest London Gatwick summer scheduled in a decade, after acquiring the ex Monarch Airline landing and take-off slots.

British Airways - BIGGEST SUMMER SCHEDULE IN A DECADE AT GATWICK (http://mediacentre.britishairways.com/pressrelease/details/86/2017-228/9097?ref=HeroStory)

Highlights

New routes to Palma (Majorca), Mahon (Menorca) and Gibraltar.

Tenerife = Increases from 6 to 13 weekly
Madeira = Increases from 6 to 9 weekly
Lanzarote = Increases from 3 to 5 weekly.
Malaga = Increases from 27 to 35 weekly
Alicante = Increases from 14 to 22 weekly
Faro = Increases from 17 to 21 weekly

[pabely]

Does look like the Monarch Schedule from last summer has been Cut / Paste into BA's!

[canberra97]

Palma has been a long time coming and has always been a missing gap in the BA Gatwick operation and it's great to see Gibraltar returning but I'm very surprised that Las Palmas is still left out of the LGW network and remains at LHR.

With Vueling pulling of the Santiago de Compostela route I was expecting BA to announce it with 2 of 3 rotations a week, Agadir could have been another possibility and a rather underserved market as far as scheduled flights are concerned other than those by EasyJet from LGW and Ryanair from STN.

[toledoashley]

The 787 issue may have certainly thrown a spanner in the works - so to cut and paste Monarch using a few Titan aircraft would certainly be the quickest and easiest thing to do.

[canberra97]

Toldoashley

Can you please explain in a bit more detail as to what your actually referring to?

[Fairdealfrank]

Everything was shuffled so IAG are now in South. easyJet got the rule of the roost at North to end the split terminal operation.
So yes there is CTA/Domestic arrivals area at South but it’s all bussing now. Can’t believe they built a whole new Pier 1 and didn’t manage a basic CTA arrivals flow!
Just experienced a BA South Terminal arrival from Edinburgh. Appalling. Normally with a bussed arrival you fill the first bus then it leaves etc but oh no, the first bus was filled but then waited until all pax disembarked and left last so the club pax who were off first arrived at domestic arrivals last. Wonderful. At domestic arrivals you have to climb four flights of stairs (you can stand in a very long queue for the lift if you wish). Following a departure from EDI where the airbridge wasn’t used so queued on the ramp in the rain and cold it was a totally 3rd world experience except in the 3rd world it would have been warm. No coincidence both airports under the same ownership and a great example of why LGW should not be entrusted with London’s next runway and if BA serious about domestic Club at LGW they need to get their act in gear.
South Terminal Domestic Arrivals
Could not agree more! Domestic / CTA Arrivals is a joke. There must be circa 2mppa using what is basically a fire escape. The domestic product needs some serious investment. The contrast between Heathrow and LGW is huge. Now avoid LGW domestic if I can.

It's a national embarrasment!




The bussing arrangements for domestic arrivals at LGW go back at least as far as early 2015. I thought the new Pier 1 at LGW was going to include direct access to domestic baggage reclaim, but obviously it hasn't happened. You'd think so wouldn't you, the old domestic pier was a disgrace, new one appears no better.....



I'm now doing international arrivals every week at the South terminal and, on balance, I think I prefer the domestic arrivals experience. Says it all!

[T250]

using steps on the south stands on pier 7 but why couldn’t we just go down the stairs from the terminal like many other LGW EZY flights.


Pier 7? Has a new pier or terminal cropped up overnight? :p

[dastocks]

It's a national embarrasment!
You'd think so wouldn't you, the old domestic pier was a disgrace, new one appears no better.....
Says it all!
I never used the old Pier 1.

Here is a link to a fairly old (2012) planning document giving outline details of what was supposed to happen.

http://www.crawley.gov.uk/pub_livx/groups/operational/documents/plappother/int229580.pdf

It would be interesting to find out if this is unfinished business (e.g. some further building work required somewhere between the pier and baggage reclaim), or they changed the plan and the busses are a permanent feature.

[Skipness One Echo]

Apologies, I get confused when I have to count on my other hand too......pier *six*.
Incidentally, for anyone passing through Gatters, there are some very impressive high resolution panorama apron shots as wall panels in both terminals. One can’t help notice the odd yet strangely familiar albino A320s and A321s that have had their titles digitally removed. Oh Monarch, they’re airbrushing you away already.

[canberra97]

Well that still doesn't have any resemblance to what you had originally posted, in fact nothing of what you wrote above was included in your original post!

In your original post there was,

No mention of Tenerife or Madeira.

No mention of two flights leaving at near enough the same time.

No mention of lack of 777's.

And obviously that's why I asked what you were actually referring to, now if you had written it correctly and included the questions above maybe and I mean maybe the original post could have been more understandable hence my post asking WTF are you on about.

[strawberry Ribena]

Moscow discontinued at the end of winter schedule. New flight added from Lhr.

[True Blue]

Isn't it really strange how an airport that has been full as last 15 years always seems able to find slots to suck airlines out of Lgw over to them on just about any major route you care to think about.Seems to me that Lhr is determined never to let Lgw establish any serious foothold in medium/longhaul. I accept Lgw has better longhaul now that for many years, but think how many airlines still have been able to find a new home at Lhr.

[DaveReidUK]

Well yes and no.

There are barely any more slots at LHR now than there were 15 years ago, so any that have been "found" in recent years have just been redeployed from other routes.

Seems to me that Lhr is determined never to let Lgw establish any serious foothold in medium/longhaul.It's called competition. :O

[SympathyFTD]

The new Pier 1 is even worse for the poor souls in the baggage handling unit. Too small, too many handlers competing for space that isn't there, an unreliable belt system and a loading system that encourages personal injury and bags that don't make the aircraft due to falling off en route thanks to Gatwick's awfully bumpy airside roads. The CTA arrangements, as mentioned before, are a joke. Shameful.

[Egda]

Gatwick has had a number of years to improve the infrastructure for arrivals from the CTA. To be honest, Manchester is the same, but at least here you don't have to climb four flights of stairs.

Do the airport authorities care, no I don't think they do, after getting soaking wet boarding a bus when on my last visit, I complained to Gatwick customer services. As a response I received.

"Thanks for contacting the team at Gatwick; I'm very sorry to hear that you're unhappy with some of the facilities and process at our airport.

Gatwick did indeed received a ministerial directive from Border Force to ensure that all CTA arriving passengers are completely segregated from international arriving passengers to eliminate the risk of border breaches. This means that we now have to treat CTA arriving passengers as domestic passengers and passengers have to be coached from the aircraft to the South Terminal domestic arrivals.

I’ve shared your comments about the South Terminal arrivals route with our Terminal Manager. I'm not aware of any imminent plans to improve the domestic arrivals route or process, but we do use passenger feedback when introducing changes so I wouldn't rule out a change for the future."

[Vampy]

Anyone heard anything about Qatar coming back to Gatwick?

Also, are we ever going to get a link to the north west again? Easyjet have bases at both Liverpool and Manchester, seems crazy there are no routes to either.

[Seljuk22]

Emirates EK011/012 will be a 2-class A380 from 25th March

[Skipness One Echo]

Gatwick Airport is considering using its emergency runway to increase capacity for flights - Get Surrey (http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/gatwick-airport-considering-using-emergency-14178571)

I thought using 26R also put the taxiway out of action due proximity? Likewise 26L is too close. Thoughts?

[DaveReidUK]

Planning agreement or not, the AIP is pretty unambiguous:

"Runway 08L/26R cannot be used simultaneously with Runway 08R/26L because of insufficient separation between the two. For this reason also, extensive safeguarding procedures are required (see d ii) before Runway 08L/26R can be activated and the runway is not available on request by pilots."

[Plane.Silly]

In principle, i agree, But surely you could slot a few extra movements in between takeoff's and landings. even just 6 an hour would surely help.
And with the expansion of pier 6, the capacity will be there too

[DaveReidUK]

But surely you could slot a few extra movements in between takeoff's and landings.

Read what I said (or rather, what NATS say) above.

even just 6 an hour would surely help.

Gatwick's runway scheduling limits are a maximum of 55 movements per hour. Given that the airport has no ATM limit, it's reasonable to assume that if any more movements could safely be accommodated during peak hours, that would already be reflected in the scheduling limits.

Gatwick Airport Scheduling Declaration Summer 2018 (https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Gatwick-Summer-2018-Capacity-Appendices-26-09-17.pdf)

[Skipness One Echo]

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/pamslight/pdf/4e415453/EG/C/EN/Charts/AD/EG_AD_2_EGKK_2-1_en

I was told Taxiway J can't be used when 26R in use which is why the hourly capacity falls dramatically when 26L is out of action.

[canberra97]

The expansion of Pier 6 is more about achieving a 95% target of gate handled flights and eliminating more bussing as that's what the airlines at Gatwick have requested it's not necessarily about increasing capacity or passenger numbers at the airport as that is limited by the single runway and having the emergency runway in use with the current main runway is more or less a non starter.

All that information regarding expansion of Pier 6 can be viewed on the Gatwick Capital Investment Page on their official website.

[True Blue]

So we heard that Aeroflot are to transfer their Moscow service over to Lhr. Today we learn that Cobalt are to start a daily service from Lhr to Lca at the end of March. Cobalt are quite a new operation. So how did they get slots so quickly? What about this long waiting list of airlines wanting access to Lhr? I find it amazing that an airport that has been full for years now can still find slots, especially for an airline that wants to transfer from Lgw, so quickly. I know Cobalt are not transferring to Lhr, at least not yet. I would love to see the truth around this, but I never will. But if I was in authority, Lhr would be explaining this all to me. Seems they can almost say what they want and the establishment believes.

[Skipness One Echo]

Which part is baffling you?
Aeroflot, an existing LHR operator tried expanding to LGW and it didn’t work out, they decided to consolidate at LHR.
Aegean’s dropping of LCA-LHR is being picked up by Cobalt. There’s nothing underhand here.

There are odd slots available, just not ideal for long haul, which is what’s driving the business case for runway 3. LHR is not 100% full, never was. Do you seriously say the DfT and CAA are being lied to by the airport operator?

[canberra97]

Also just to add to Skips correct post.

This so called long list of airlines wanting to operate from LHR was more or less frabicated as part of Heathrow Airport Limited campaign for runway 3, it was stated at one point by a press release from LHR Limited as being 40 Airlines wanting access to LHR but I think that was hugely over exaggerated.

Since that was first announced about ten years ago we have seen several airlines commence operations from LHR so that list is obviously shorter than it previously was but I still find the original figure of 40 rather exaggerated.

Since that figure was first put out by Heathrow Airport Limited as part of their original campaign for Runway 3 ten years ago we have seen the following airlines operating from LHR either by buying slots, leasing slots, mergers, reciprocal slots as we're seeing with Cobalt using the former Aegean slots on LHR to LCA. Also many of those airlines were previously operating from London Gatwick until suitable slots were available at LHR.

In the last ten years in one way or another the following airlines have obtained slots at LHR.

Arik Air
Avianca
Beijing Capital Airlines
China Eastern
China Southern
Cobalt
Flybe
Garuda Indonesia
Philippine Airlines
Oman Air
Vietnam Airlines
Vueling

And that doesn't include expansion and extra slots obtained by the incumbent airlines expanding their LHR operations by buying or leasing slots or just moving slots around.

I have always been a LGW fanboy but I'm also a realist so I should imagine we can add China Airlines to that list at some point making that list of airlines wanting to serve LHR considerably shorter but absolutely no where near the exaggerated figure of 40 as was previously announced by LHR Limited. (Which btw I took with a very large pinch of salt and it amazes me how many took that comment so seriously and keep quoting it)

[LBIA]

Westjet have just announced a new daily service from Gatwick to Halifax, NS with flights starting April 29th, 2018.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1317

[BHX5DME]

Plenty of slots avaialble at weekends with around 50-60 less arrivals (especially on Saturday) compared to week days

[DaveReidUK]

That's only true for Saturdays. Sunday typically has as many arrivals as a weekday.

[Skipness One Echo]

Sunday mornings have a fraction of the short haul program?
btw Westjet are dropping St John's for Halifax.

[kgoodall]

Can’t blame them really. The weather there can be very unpredictable, lovely city though.

Looks like they will be using a new 737 Max 8 that should provide a small capacity increase over the 737-700 used previously.

[AirportPlanner1]

Are they still doing the Ottawa tag-on via Halifax or has that gone as well?

[kgoodall]

Yes I believe so, it is listed as Ottawa to London via Halifax.

[Skipness One Echo]

Being reported elsewhere (flyertalk - no link possible), that a walkable Dometic and CTA route is being introduced at Gatwick Arrivals. The bussing is tedious in the extreme, arrived on stand 4 last night on an airbridge then down and onto the apron to board a bus. Someone has listened, well done !

Also ref Pier 1, I didn't see any signage for Arrivals at all, Surely International Arrivals can walk from Pier 1 to UK Border? I assume it's on the ground floor?

[dastocks]

Yes, it's (roughly) underneath the path taken for Pier 1 departures. I go that way occasionaly.

I assume they would want to put domestic arrivals and departures onto the same gates. I haven't spotted any of the additional equipment used for domestic departures on the pier 1 gates yet.

[adfly]

I have put together my usual summary of long haul routes from Gatwick for this coming summer. Please let me know of any changes or corrections needed.

Air Canada Rouge

Toronto - 4 weekly 763

Air Transat

Calgary - 3 weekly 332
Montreal - 2-3 weekly 313
Toronto - 8-9 weekly 333/332 (7x/1-2x)
Vancouver - 4-7 weekly 332

British Airways - 13x 772 based

Antigua - 6 weekly 772
Barbados - 7 weekly 772
Bermuda - 7 weekly 772
Cancun - 3 weekly 772
Fort Lauderdale - 3 weekly 772
Grenada - 2 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Kingston - 3 weekly 772
Las Vegas ('New') - 3 weekly 772 (from 27/03)
Lima - 3 weekly 772
Mauritius - 3 weekly 772
New York JFK - 7 weekly 772
Oakland - 3 weekly 772
Orlando - 13 weekly 772
Port of Spain - 5 weekly 772 (via UVF)
Providenciales - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
Punta Cana - 3 weekly 772
St Kitts - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
St Lucia - 7 weekly 772
San Jose de Costa Rica - 2 weekly 772
Tampa - 7 weekly 772
Tobago - 2 weekly 772 (via ANU)
Toronto (New) - 3 weekly 772 (from 01/05)

Cathay Pacific

Hong Kong - 7 weekly 359

China Airlines

Taipei - 5 weekly 359

Emirates

Dubai - 21 weekly 388

Iraqi Airways

Baghdad - 1 weekly 738

Med-View Airline

Lagos - 4 weekly 763/772

Norwegian Long Haul - 11x 789 based

Austin (New) - 3 weekly 789
Boston - 7 weekly 789
Buenos Aires - 4 weekly 789
Chicago (New) - 7 weekly 789 (from 25/03)
Denver - 3 weekly 789
Fort Lauderdale - 2 weekly 789
Los Angeles - 9 weekly 789
New York JFK - 13 weekly 789
Oakland - 5 weekly 789
Orlando - 3 weekly 789
Seattle - 4 weekly 789
Singapore - 4 weekly 789

Rwandair

Kigali - 3 weekly 332/333 (via BRU)

Thomas Cook Airlines - 1x 332 based

Cancun - 2 weekly 332
Cayo Coco - 1 weekly 332
Holguin - 1 weekly 332
Orlando - 3 weekly 332

TUI Airways - 2x 788, 1x789 based (?)

Boa Vista - 3 weekly 752
Cancun - 7 weekly 787
Liberia - 1 weekly 787
Mauritius - 1 weekly 787
Montego Bay - 3 weekly 787
Orlando Sanford - 2 weekly 787
Puerto Vallarta - 1 weekly 787
Punta Cana - 3 weekly 787
Sal - 2 weekly 752
St Lucia - 1 weekly 787
Varadero - 1 weekly 787

Tianjin Airlines

Chongqing - 2 weekly 332
Tianjin - 4 weekly 332 (via CKG/XIY)
Xi'an (New) - 2 weekly 332 (from 11/05)

Virgin Atlantic Airways - 4x 744, 2x 332/333 based

Antigua - 3 weekly 333/332
Barbados - 7 weekly 333/332
Cancun - 1 weekly 744
Grenada - 2 weekly 333/332 (via UVF)
Havana - 2 weekly 744
Las Vegas - 7 weekly 744
Montego Bay - 2 weekly 744
Orlando - 12-17 weekly 744
St Lucia - 3 weekly 333/332
Tobago - 1 weekly 333/332 (via UVF)

Westjet

Calgary - 5 weekly 763
Edmonton - 2 weekly 763
Halifax (New) - 7 weekly 7M8 (from 30/04)
Toronto - 7 weekly 763
Vancouver - 6 weekly 763
Winnipeg - 1 weekly 763

Average weekly departures = 308-321 vs 280-289 in S17
Average daily departures = 44-46 vs 40-41 in S17

Busiest Routes:

Orlando - 31-36 weekly
Toronto - 22-23 weekly
Dubai - 21 weekly
New York - 20 weekly
Barbados - 14 weekly
Cancun - 13 weekly
Vancouver - 10-13 weekly
St Lucia - 11 weekly
Las Vegas - 10 weekly
Los Angeles - 9 weekly
Antigua - 9 weekly
Oakland - 8 weekly
Calgary - 8 weekly

[Vampy]

Heard on fairly good authority that Qatar will re-commence services later this year.

[canberra97]

The situation regarding 'will or won't' Qatar be returning to LGW crops up now and again and someone even posted a proposed schedule on this thread last year for LGW to DOH but nothing materialised so unless anything has changed in that respect I suggest that we wait until Qatar officially announces it otherwise your comments regarding the return of Qatar at LGW will be like the numerous other posts that were never substantiated.m

I personally was expecting Qatar to return to LGW but after their recent purchase of extra slots at LHR to accommodate a 7th daily Doha flight I assumed that LGW would have to wait a bit longer until Qatar officially announced a resumption of DOH to LGW.

[Skipness One Echo]

They prioritised Cardiff. No, I don’t know why either....

[Jerry123]

Because they already have a London route and if they were able to get more LHR slots why would they need to operate a Gatwick route?

[daz211]

Maybe they will follow Emirates lead and add Stansted... just an idea probably won’t happen but then again who would have thought Emirates would have turn up to the party at Stansted.
Makes sense south of the river and north of the river.

[southside bobby]

MAG will have very good relations with QTR..

And added too with STN,comprising QTRC albeit for BAWC & the numerous Amiri flights thru the North Side.

[FlyboyUK]

Maybe there are some crossed wires here as I've also heard that Qatar will be helping out BA from LGW to utilise the recently acquired Monarch slots.

[Rutan16]

Haven’t BA already withdrawn their application to deploy Qatar aircraft from the CAA

[southside bobby]

No crossed wires...

....& yes as has been discussed QTR 320 lease in permission refused by the CAA.

[nigel osborne]

They prioritised Cardiff. No, I don’t know why either....

I expect the Welsh Govt are rewarding Qatar well to come in.

I highly doubt it will do well.Even BHX is struggling and even the MAN load factors are not that great.

[Jerry123]

EU state aid rules wouldn't allow direct subsidies for a route like that.

[canberra97]

Because they already have a London route and if they were able to get more LHR slots why would they need to operate a Gatwick route?

In that respect you could include Cathay Pacific who seem to be successful at LGW with their single daily HKG flight along with their current LHR flights.

[canberra97]

Maybe they will follow Emirates lead and add Stansted... just an idea probably won’t happen but then again who would have thought Emirates would have turn up to the party at Stansted.
Makes sense south of the river and north of the river.

With regards to Emirates and Stansted, it wasn't a huge surprise by any means it was a case of 'not if but when' will Emirates announce Stansted and sure enough it's finally happening but definitely no big surprise that they are now turning up 'at the party'.

[canberra97]

MAG will have very good relations with QTR..

And added too with STN,comprising QTRC albeit for BAWC & the numerous Amiri flights thru the North Side.

I was under the impression that the Qatar Cargo flights operated on behalf of BA World Cargo have moved from Stansted to LHR and the current Stansted operation are actually Qatar Cargo own designated flights.

[DaveReidUK]

Yes, QTR have operated a weekly, more recently twice-weekly, A330-200F DOH/LHR service since June of last year, routing via Basel either inbound or outbound.

[Skipness One Echo]

The Cathay Gatwick service is interesting, indeed they’re actually dropping capacity out of LHR and retiring B77Ws in favour of A359s.

[southside bobby]

Qatar Cargo moved the A330F flights to LHR incrementally from last Summer starting with the Saturday service.
This is their own freighter operation.

The QTR Cargo B77F service is retained at STN & is indeed operated for & on behalf of BAWC.
Talk that BAWC needed more lift & a possible move to utilise the B748F as well which QTRC are incorporating into their fleet.

[brianj]

Remember that Qatar Holdings LLC hold a significant share in the ownership of Heathrow Airport. Operating out of Gatwick for example, means giving business to effectively a competitor!

[True Blue]

So some of the routes that Norwegian was to drop at the end of March will now continue into the summer I believe.

[EIFFS]

They have been quietly adding routes from April at about 1 a week, TFS,LPA,ACE all now on sale for summer, I think IBZ was only added this week? Not a big lead time, some suggestion that they wanted to ensure they could crew them without recourse to wet lease.

Rumour is the early build 7M8 will go to HEL starting April as new build ‘ norwegian spec’ 7M8 are delivered for US ops, the early ones were intended for South West.

[Vokes55]

11 aircraft for Norwegian short haul (NAI/NUK) this Summer, the same amount as last year but without the spare aircraft. They had a number of delays two years ago, mainly due to crew shortages (predominantly cabin crew), which is why they kept a spare in 2017 and punctuality certainly improved.

Still a few gaps in the schedule that'll probably be filled before the start of the season.

[Skipness One Echo]

Isn’t that eleven aircarft for D8, “Nortrans”, the Irish registered operation? There’s only ever been one UK registered 737. Or are there more going onto become G-?

[Vokes55]

Ten for NAI (EI-reg), one for NUK (G-reg). However the NUK aircraft operates using the D8 code and 'Nortrans' callsign, but with a separate crew set from the NAI operation (but on the same terms/conditions as NAI). All very complicated.

I believe the single G-reg 737 operation was simply an AOC 'sitter'. Now that the entire LGW based long haul operation is moving to NUK, I'd imagine G-NRWY could return to the Irish register. But with Brexit around the corner, who knows.

[Seljuk22]

Anyone know how many aircraft (aprox) will be based by EZY at LGW this summer?

[True Blue]

More expansion to come from Norwegian.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2018/02/13/norwegian-expands-targets-business-travellers/

[strawberry Ribena]

Aeroflot/Rossiya introduces Gatwick -St Petersburg

Flights begin 25th March.

[Flitefone]

Seljuk22

I believe its 63 or so

[AirportPlanner1]

strawberry Ribena

That’s a blast from the past! When did that flight cease? I remember their TU154s setting off at a similar time to the Belavia 134. I miss the noise!

[strawberry Ribena]

I have feeling it was 2011?

Booking system shows a boring a319.

[True Blue]

St Petersburg.

Seems to be daily and using the slots from the transferred Moscow service. A319.

Wonder which Lgw management would prefer, Moscow or St Petersburg?

[Wickerbill]

They don't care. The take off and landing fees are the same.

[canberra97]

True Blue

I was thinking the same question regardless of the fact that ''the take off and landing fees are the same''!

It's good to see St Petersburg return to the Gatwick destination list but Moscow being the capital city of Russia surely that's a more prestigious route for the airports portfolio but non the less at least with this announcement the airport retains the presence of another major flag carrier as in Aeroflot.

[southside bobby]

Well actually there would be a preference with ANY slot as to destination..

The airport/s take more income from the pax thru the terminal stores than money from the landing fee..

With a slide rule the management & retail are fully aware of income from each & every flight..

The pax mix between the two cities mentioned would be anyway very different I would imagine..

[Skipness One Echo]

With a slide rule the management & retail are fully aware of income from each & every flight..
I hope it’s a little more sophisticated than 30cm plastic!
Only a minority of Gatwick’s business would be “prestige”, HKG maybe, but the rest is mainly leisure and skewed towards point to point. Prestige doesn’t always help the bottom line, BA used to be a “prestige” carrier at LGW and never made a penny in that business model.

[True Blue]

I have always wondered on this point, business pax vs leisure pax, who spends the most. It has always been stated that leisure pax don't spend much in airports, yet any time I pass through Lgw, the bars etc are full. So does this idea hold true? The prices in the bars etc are the same regardless of who is buying.

[intortola]

Very true. I flew from Gatwick North Sunday before last and there was a queue for Caviar House, couldn’t get served in the time I had. All outlets were extremely busy.

[SWBKCB]

It has always been stated that leisure pax don't spend much in airports,

Thought it was the other way round and business pax buy nowt?

[c52]

Aeroflot don't appear to have any A319s.

[DaveReidUK]

True, but irrelevant.

[True Blue]

Operated by Rossiya

[AirportPlanner1]

Thought it was the other way round and business pax buy nowt?

It depends. Your British business traveller heading to Edinburgh for the day or German going back to Frankfurt might buy a coffee, but someone heading back to Hong Kong may well pick up a Gucci handbag or Tiffany necklace

[canberra97]

According to another poster on another thread he comments on the fact that Ethiopian have applied for two daily 'transit' slots at LGW.

Is anyone able to confirm this as the airline has only recently announced that it intended to expand their presence in the United Kingdom.

[True Blue]

With the most recent expansion on long haul routes out of Lgw by Norwegian, how many 787's will they have based aat Lgw to deliver this programme?

[Vokes55]

11


........

[True Blue]

Qatar returning to Lgw from 23rd May, 2 daily.

[adfly]

Going straight in to compete with Emirates would seem. Both flights are on 788's and depart in the 8:50-9:30 and 15:00-16:00 range (changes each day).

[strawberry Ribena]

Going straight in to compete with Emirates would seem. Both flights are on 788's and depart in the 8:50-9:30 and 15:00-16:00 range (changes each day).

Any idea who will handle them?

[sinbad73]

2 months - not a lot of notice to fill these birds!

[The96er]

Using some of the recently acquired Monarch slots by BA perhaps ?

[True Blue]

seems to be 3 flights on Friday/Saturday for most of the summer for Qatar.

[canberra97]

The extra flights on the Friday and Saturday during the peak summer period will be A332 where as the rest of the schedule will be B788.

[True Blue]

I see the Tianjin Airlines flights to Xian are now operating from the full Lhr. More slots found for a service that was to operate from Lgw. Isn't Lhr great at finding slots for services that were to operate from Lgw. I wonder when someone in Government will ask Lhr for their definition of "full".

[Skipness One Echo]

You’ve asked this before. LHR is full, someone has to trade a slot for you to get one.
It’s called churn and had been a common feature in the 37 years since LHR was opened up to new airlines once again in 1991 after having been declared full in 1977.

Heathrow didn’t find new slots for this, the airline would have gone to market and paid a sum of money, or gotten some of the rare slots that go to new entrants.

[True Blue]

Skipness, you are correct, I have asked that question a number of times. I know you are a big supporter of Lhr expansion and I respect your opinion, I just see is as a monopoly that is determined to not let Lgw get a foothold in the long-haul business market. Keep the whole business travel market at Lhr then all can charge higher fares. We are told yields are higher at Lhr, surprising that isn't it. A self fulfilling prophesy, isn't it? The whole business travel market is set up to support Lhr, right down to FF programmes, deals, big travel agents. A not very flattering article in the Sunday Times yesterday on how Lhr manages it's finances. Just another reason why Lhr should not be allowed to expand this time, we will all pay for it.

[strawberry Ribena]

Walking towards check in at North terminal and directions for Ethiopian Airlines and Air China (and Qatar- but we knew that) check in areas have been installed. Any idea when they start?

[canberra97]

Check inn areas have been installed?

Can you elaborate on that a bit more, considering that neither Air China or Ethiopian have confirmed a return to LGW I find it rather strange!

Qatar which we're already aware of will be using the South Terminal joining other Oneworld and IAG members, they will also make use of the British Airways lounges.

[bunatern]

Ethiopian and air china both hold slots for S18 but that's as far as it has gone thus far.

[canberra97]

Even so why would Gatwick have check in areas installed already if neither airline has even confirmed operations, it's not as if there are loads of spare check in desks available at the North Terminal for this to happen.

[c52]

"Directions for check-in areas" will be something like a list of airlines with the terminals they operate from, so there's no harm is including a few airlines that don't use the airport.

[canberra97]

But what is the point of having a list of airlines and having ones listed when they don't even operate from the airport!

It may well be the case that Gatwick Airport never got round to taking away many of the former signage at the North Terminal from when Air China operated into LGW up until two years ago but even that I find strange considering that the terminal has recently been revamped.

[strawberry Ribena]

North terminal check in info

[strawberry Ribena]

Sorry if that’s not clear- but that’s pretty new!

Air China
Ethiopian
Qatar all in the north.


I was under the impression that Qatar would use south too, but they’re far too busy. North (level 2) is a ghost town after 2pm!

[Skipness One Echo]

There are most certainly a load of spare check in desks. Indeed, Westjet’s is empty for the rest of the day once their flight(s) depart.
Air China moved their new LGW flight to LHR a few years back, are they really going 3 x daily to London?

[bunatern]

I believe the air china slots were for a service to CTU.

[BAladdy]

BA are suspending there flight to OAK from 22OCT18.

BA’s flights to LAS resumed for S18. Will continue to operate 3 x weekly through W18

[canberra97]

With that announcement regarding the suspension of OAK from October 2018 I presume there is some some spare long haul capacity available, I wonder if BA are to announce a new destination to replace Oakland or increase frequencies on other routes ex LGW.

[adfly]

BA are suspending there flight to OAK from 22OCT18.

BA’s flights to LAS resumed for S18. Will continue to operate 3 x weekly through W18

1-0 Norwegian for that route! Of course there is still gonna be a struggle for them elsewhere but I guess it shows BA can't squeeze them out of the market *that* easily, as long as they stay afloat.

[BAladdy]

With that announcement regarding the suspension of OAK from October 2018 I presume there is some some spare long haul capacity available, I wonder if BA are to announce a new destination to replace Oakland or increase frequencies on other routes ex LGW.
BA plan to operate LGW-LAS year round. The flight will operate 3 x weekly for W18.

This is the same frequency that BA planned to op the OAK for W18.

[nguba]

Any indications as to how FLL is performing for BA?

Arguably, it’s better suited to a 787 at LHR.

[vectisman]

Nguba. Why?