Norwegian-2 [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

EIFFS

31st Aug 2017, 23:30

Porrohman

Correct, approval was granted about a week ago for 180 minutes ETOPS on the max, planned implementation date was 27/28th to allow time to have the additional rafts installed and ETOPS checks completed.

Some flights westbound may still go north of the OTS because the extra distance can out weigh the teeth of the jet stream at the lower altitudes that the max can achieve when heavy at around 350

ETOPS eastbound should allow for at least another 20 passengers or so.

Mr @ Spotty M

1st Sep 2017, 06:19

The first Max stationed in EDI had the changes made a few days back, but the aircraft as pointed out by EIFFS went Non ETOPS on its first flight after the changes, this due to wind/routing advantages. :ok:

111KAB

1st Sep 2017, 18:52

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/286590/oleary-claims-norwegian-air-running-out-of-cash

davidjohnson6

1st Sep 2017, 19:29

MOL has a habit of annoying rivals but he also has an uncanny knack of being right when making outspoken predictions in the airline industry

Skipness One Echo

8th Sep 2017, 05:22

The article claims pilots joining Norwegian get "permanent employment". So, no more contracting or self employed smoke and mirrors anymore?

toledoashley

8th Sep 2017, 06:10

IF terms of employment are better at Norwegian, MOL has nothing to complain about. In fact, maybe Norwegian should be shouting about this more...?

EIFFS

8th Sep 2017, 14:33

Skip ness

That's correct, agency contractor rolls stopped about 2-3 years ago.

The legal employer is OSM aviation which is part owned by Norwegian. So I guess some would say smoke & mirrors but it is permanent employment, tax & NI deducted at source.

The big attraction for Ryanair pilots is leaving Ryanair, everything else is a bonus (UK) including crew food, sick pay, pension, private medical, paid holidays, standby payment ( in addition to basic pay) positioning pay, hotel out of base, free uniform and acquiring points to replace items, downsides are that the roster is variable and for some having to pay tax as an employee,

CabinCrewe

11th Sep 2017, 20:41

Not often you hear major carriers in 'asset disposal' to potentially raise funds...
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/59336-norwegian-would-consider-leasing-unit-disposal

inOban

11th Sep 2017, 20:53

Both EDI flights are now on MAX8.

Buster the Bear

12th Sep 2017, 00:09

I guess as the MAX arrive, older generation 737-800s will be withdrawn. LN-NOT sits engineless at Lasham after hand back to whoever owns it.

Skipness One Echo

12th Sep 2017, 04:14

Thanks EIFFS, good to know. I love (cliche warning) business who can disrupt the market in favour of us consumers but attacking the terms and conditions of employees has become an art form amongs MBA clone in the industry IMHO.

PPRuNeUser0176

14th Sep 2017, 18:21

All not as it seems!

http://http://nordic.businessinsider.com/norwegian-on-ryanair-attack-oleary-was-bitter-for-losing-his-pilots-to-us-2017-9/ (http://nordic.businessinsider.com/norwegian-on-ryanair-attack-oleary-was-bitter-for-losing-his-pilots-to-us-2017-9/)

Have had some cancelled flights for the next few days.

inOban

14th Sep 2017, 18:28

FR have cancelled two EDI to STN tomorrow. So?

INKJET

23rd Sep 2017, 09:42

Bondi wont be happy......final approval from the US

Tonight we have welcomed news that our British subsidiary ‘Norwegian UK’ (NUK) has been granted a foreign air carrier permit by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT). The permit allows NUK to operate flights between the UK, Europe and the United States.

lee757

9th Oct 2017, 13:29

Has norwegian launched/announced BHX to EWR or MAN to EWR? Havent paid much attention but their site has
EWR - MAN listed 9th, 16th & 23rd Oct

BHX to EWR 15th & 22nd Oct

But cant see any other dates or directions?

LAX_LHR

9th Oct 2017, 13:36

It's via BCN.

lee757

9th Oct 2017, 13:38

Thanks @LAX_LHR - I did wonder.

SealinkBF

9th Oct 2017, 16:14

Just tried Norwegian transatlantic for first time. A mini-review.

As SLF with no weekend stay, BA and VS fares were astronomical. DY was a nobrainer at a fraction of the cost, with lounge access.

Via Twitter, they advised me that they did not offer Fastrack security access in PE, but this was not the case and it was indeed included. After me paying £4.99 to Gatwick Airport separately for the privilege.

At check-in, they told my friend that he might be refused access to USA because his passport was invalid. This was absolute nonsense but made for a fretful flight. I was fairly relaxed because I think DY would have been fined if they got it wrong, but still... its not nice to board a flight with doubts in your mind, knowing how awful US immigration at BOS can be.

The seat was comfortable with excellent legroom (proviso at the bottom)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4404/37384163126_6c24ba2a20.jpg

Food was an issue in PE - the included portions were tiny and all our party were ravenous by the time we landed in Boston.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4366/37442686311_c1cf6af03c.jpg

The sandwiches were wet, and basically unedible.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4369/37411872552_2c85683a7b.jpg

Norwegian were also extremely strict about standing near the galley (and by default, loos) claiming US law forbade people standing there. Funny, no one has told VS or BA that!

And don't pick a window seat unless you really know the person next to you - when seat in front is reclined it is extremely difficult go get out for a loo break...

Would I use them again? Probably. And pick and aisle seat.
But I'd really try to rearrange my dates to include a Saturday night stay and use BA or VS.

EIFFS

10th Oct 2017, 15:59

It is indeed a US requirement that a PA be made during boarding, requesting that people do not congregate in the galley or toilet area, all airlines operating inbound to/from the US are required to comply with this instruction.

My prepaid economy food looked rather better than yours.

On my route premium was full, but towards the back a number of rows were empty, providing 3 seats across sleeping!

IB4138

11th Oct 2017, 16:16

Have the direct Manchester to Malaga flights been canned or simply not loaded yet?

LAX_LHR

11th Oct 2017, 16:31

Seems all MAN-Spain routes have been canned (as has BHX).

EIFFS

12th Oct 2017, 01:05

None loaded yet from any Uk location to the med, told it will be month end before they do and expect some surprises.

toledoashley

12th Oct 2017, 04:15

I have been told that ex-UK the focus is going to be on long haul (especially Gatwick), and drop short haul service which are ‘harder to make money’...

Plane.Silly

12th Oct 2017, 06:41

Seems all MAN-Spain routes have been canned (as has BHX).

Wouldn't surprise me if they had, some of the routes were reading more like a bus schedule with the amount of flights per day, especially weekends

inOban

12th Oct 2017, 07:32

EDI to BCN was loaded some weeks ago, as was Tenerife.

Jerry123

12th Oct 2017, 09:35

None loaded yet from any Uk location to the med, told it will be month end before they do and expect some surprises.

New UK airports? Or new routes to the ones they already serve?

ATNotts

12th Oct 2017, 10:12

I imagine they'll be looking at former Monarch bases, particularly BHX and MAN especially since so far, Ryanair hasn't made any pitch to fill the gap, and I guess with the trimming of services and the bad publicity they have suffered as a consequence any announcement may be badly received by the press and media, if not by the public at large.

LAX_LHR

12th Oct 2017, 11:03

I do keep hearing persistent rumours of MAN-SWF.

116d

12th Oct 2017, 11:42

I have been told that ex-UK the focus is going to be on long haul (especially Gatwick), and drop short haul service which are ‘harder to make money’...

I'm not surprised about the cuts to a few of the sun routes at MAN. Even with Monarch now out of the picture, it's those sort of routes where there's plenty of well established competition already. Time will tell whether there's big capacity gaps on the ex-Monarch routes, but I appreciate it's more down to yields.

JSCL

12th Oct 2017, 12:19

I flew with Norwegian on 4 return flights between MAN > TFS last November/December and on every flight... there was less than 25 people.

MKY661

12th Oct 2017, 12:35

I guess maybe the advertising hasn't been the Best? I've barely seen any adverts for these flights at all.

I would say though that Monarch were probably one of, if not the biggest operator of the main Mediterranean Sun routes from MAN, they operated the main ones twice daily pretty often and had larger aircraft than the rest.

FQTLSteve

12th Oct 2017, 13:46

To balance that, JSCL, over a similar period I flew Norwegian AGP-BHX and all flights were at least c 70-80% about 4 sectors including January 2017. It may vary route by route. It's a pity they've gone as I liked using Norwegian.

JSCL

12th Oct 2017, 13:51

As I recall, Norwegian announced their flights between MAN and TFS about 6 weeks ahead. The emptiest flight I had was end of November, with 16 people in all. Service was great though... :)

Interestingly I also flew back from TFS with Vueling just recently and that flight was easily running at around 50-60% LF.

https://uploadir.com/u/oikm0iwl

Danny_R

12th Oct 2017, 16:00

There was an article in the trade press this week from Norwegians head of UK sales saying that the short haul network was being reviewed as there's simply too much capacity in the UK market and yields are too low, as we've seen with Monarchs increased pax but reduced revenue.

lfc84

12th Oct 2017, 20:07

i tell people in work about norwegian short haul. they've never heard about them. yet, even then they just use easyjet or ryanair !
i cant fathom it

i haven't used them long haul

canberra97

12th Oct 2017, 22:33

Obviously I know who Norwegian are and of course I know of Norwegian and it's operations but it's becoming a strange phenomena when relatives and work colleagues having flown with them asking me 'have you ever flown with Norwegian, there very good you know' which I reply 'sure I know of them but I have never flown with the airline'.

So I think many on here would be quite surprised how much Norwegian is becoming increasingly etched into people's minds.

Will I ever fly with Norwegian?

Being a bit cynical though but I am tempted to try Norwegian especially from LGW to Buenos Airies but I always think I am going to find myself in a 'Monarch' situation.

Skipness One Echo

13th Oct 2017, 07:12

Short haul was their moneymaker, keeping things on track as long haul bled red ink badly. So do we hope long haul is suddenly super-profitable.....?

116d

13th Oct 2017, 11:31

I guess maybe the advertising hasn't been the Best? I've barely seen any adverts for these flights at all.

I'd say that's the problem.

You see adverts on TV for easyJet, Ryanair and Jet2 - even Monarch had a TV ad campaign earlier this year - but nothing for Norwegian. Go back to the late-90's and early-2000's when the LCC revolution was in full swing you had easyJet getting lots of publicity through the ITV show 'Airline' (anyone remember that?) and Ryanair had adverts at the start and end of weather forecasts on Sky News like Qatar do now as well as their adverts in newspapers that were created in-house. You also had Sir Stelios and Michael O'Leary hitting the headlines and becoming well-known for their respective positions.

Unless I've been looking in the wrong places, I've not seen similar levels of advertising or publicity for Norwegian. It's as though you only know they offer those routes too if you go looking for them or have an interest/work in aviation.

Fairdealfrank

13th Oct 2017, 18:26

I guess maybe the advertising hasn't been the Best? I've barely seen any adverts for these flights at all.

i tell people in work about norwegian short haul. they've never heard about them. yet, even then they just use easyjet or ryanair !
i cant fathom it

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKY661 http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599894-norwegian-air-shuttle-2-a-3.html#post9922632)
I guess maybe the advertising hasn't been the Best? I've barely seen any adverts for these flights at all.

I'd say that's the problem.

Funny how carriers start new routes, some quite innovative, then scrap them/reduce frequencies a few months later, all because they cannot be bothered to adverise them sufficiently. BE's LCY-CWL (scrapped) and LCY-EXT (down to just once/day) are examples that come to mind.

Seems that it isn't just BE!

You see adverts on TV for easyJet, Ryanair and Jet2 - even Monarch had a TV ad campaign earlier this year - but nothing for Norwegian. Go back to the late-90's and early-2000's when the LCC revolution was in full swing you had easyJet getting lots of publicity through the ITV show 'Airline' (anyone remember that?) and Ryanair had adverts at the start and end of weather forecasts on Sky News like Qatar do now as well as their adverts in newspapers that were created in-house. You also had Sir Stelios and Michael O'Leary hitting the headlines and becoming well-known for their respective positions.

Unless I've been looking in the wrong places, I've not seen similar levels of advertising or publicity for Norwegian. It's as though you only know they offer those routes too if you go looking for them or have an interest/work in aviation

Exactly, how can the non-aviation general public be expected to know about new services if they are never advertised?

SWBKCB

13th Oct 2017, 18:53

Some of the many flight comparison sites now available? Times are a changing...

nigel osborne

13th Oct 2017, 19:10

Short haul was their moneymaker, keeping things on track as long haul bled red ink badly. So do we hope long haul is suddenly super-profitable.....?

The fact they are dropping the Med routes from BHX and MAN and want to expand long haul at LGW by possibly using short haul slots answers your question perhaps.

lee757

14th Oct 2017, 10:25

The name cant help. If you know them (as everyone here will) you know them and its fine.

But if you don't then you'd probably think that they just flew to Norway. Same way as you'd expect Air France to take you to France. You're probably not going to be thinking canaries from BHX or MAN.

I would guess that a larger proportion of their bookings comes from the trade or through affiliate / comparison rather then direct bookings compared with U2 or FR. Though personally i much prefer DY.

Didnt BK even state they were at one point talking about changing the name, although dont think that was too recent now?

PAXboy

14th Oct 2017, 20:59

lee757
You're probably not going to be thinking canaries from BHX or MAN.Brexit will soon fix the problem - it will reduce capacity and increase prices. Simples. :mad:

spacedog

14th Oct 2017, 22:08

Brexit has nothing to do with it.
What Michael O'Leary is saying is not a million miles away from reality.
Norwegian business model does not work. Massive expansion
Cheap labour....they do not make money....if they can't make money
Now while the oil price is cheap what will happen when the oil price does rise.

INKJET

15th Oct 2017, 06:28

Norwegians short haul operations around Europe and esotfrom/to Scandinavian does very well and is profitable.

The problem at LGW is lack of slots, if you are up against easy with say 4 flights a day to AGP and you only have one, they can price against that rotation denying you a profit, whilst hiking the the price of the other rotations that you don't compete with.

The problem in the North of England is somewhat different, there is over capacity on many routes so yields are lower to start with, this part of the UK is very very price sensitive on bucket & spades routes.

People will readily fly at very unsocial hours to save a £5 a head, which is another £5 to spend on. Booze in the resort, many know that Ryanair is crap, but they can put up with being treated like dirt if they can save £20 a head ( or think they can) !!

75% of all Thomas Cooks bogus holiday sickness claim come from Manchester/Merseyside, there is a mind set in this part of the world for many that us best summed up in the saying " they know the price of everything and the value of nothing" so Norwegians far superior product offering if costing even a few £s more will not find enough takers.

SWBKCB

15th Oct 2017, 07:12

Sounds like somebodies looking for excuses :{

Navpi

15th Oct 2017, 07:51

Bit of regional racism there Sir and a inaccurate generalisation. My local airport at Stansted has a highly significant number of the great unwashed supping great quantities of lager with a bacon sandwich at 6am.

IB4138

15th Oct 2017, 08:23

Yes, quite inaccurate comment from INKJET.

The gap that now exists at airports excluding LGW, is afternoon/ early evening flights to the Costas. Not everyone wants or can get to a flight at 06.00. Norwegian operated flights in this gap at Manchester as did Monarch. Together they are a big loss. Such flights are needed all year round.
Additionally comments about Norwegian's lack of advertising seems to be something common to businesses run by people from that area of Scandinavia. For example; A restaurant here which has had a good reputation and name for years, has changed hands and name. No advertising has or is taking place. Even the sign directing you to the restaurant has gone. They are relying on word of mouth.

chaps1954

15th Oct 2017, 08:36

IB4138 Re advertsing The company I work for does NO advertsing at all and does very well on referals, advertising can and will eat into your budget very quickly, Ryanair is a past master at getting business by publicity and it doesn`t have to be good publicity either just get your name known over and over again.

daz211

15th Oct 2017, 09:18

inOban

15th Oct 2017, 09:44

I think Ryanair works on the old adage that all publicity is good publicity.

GLAEDI

15th Oct 2017, 09:46

Probably already been mentioned but it’s all in the name unfortunately Norwegian suggests fly to Norway so without advertising and even with to some extent your already on a loosing battle don’t get me wrong Norwegian is not alone in my opinion there are a few examples and one that I can never understand is AerLingus it’s fine if it were an Irish domestic airline but when you are looking for Americans and Europeans to book not only do they not know what the words are they can’t spell it but I have the same worry for the new low cost airline setting up at Stansted next year Primera Air now I’m don’t pretend to be the sharpest tool in the box but I get confused when spelling it and don’t even know if I pronounce correctly so to me if you want to attract passengers from the start with out confusing then you need to get the name right don’t have a name you find it hard to spell don’t have a name of a country or region unless it’s your national country and don’t have a name that suggests that you only fly to the country in your name so to conclude a nice simple name that is recognised globally and easy to spell is the way forward

What! So all airlines have to spell their name in a nice English name! Aer Lingus are Irish and spell their name in Irish the language of the country. What now, people want Lufthansa, Qantas, Delta and Iberia to change their names to German National Airlines, Australia National Airlines, America National Airlines or Spanish National Airlines and how dare Air Canada call their airline Rouge it should be red. Few people put airline names in search engines they put the route in. Search engines are becoming better at giving alternative cities like showing both GLA and EDI or all LON airports.

Norwegian are from Norway and celebrated that. Why should they change their name so people who are thick can use them. What do they change their name to? Go Airlines, Fly Airlines or some rubbish like that, that isn’t their heritage of being Norwegian!

daz211

15th Oct 2017, 10:17

I didn’t say an airline HAD to do anything I said in my opinion and you have just proven one of my points in the spelling of AER Lingus and the point I was making is to joe public looking to book a bucket and spade flight from LGW to ALC will automatically think Norwegian will offer flights to Norway just like KFC are unlikely to sell veggie burger so a vegetarian is unlikely to go in and ask when they can get a fillet of fish next door at McDonalds

I don’t know what your point is listing
Lufthansa
Delta
Iberia
Qantas
They are all well established brands but to some extent again you prove my point if any of the above tried to launch UK to Europe sun destinations WITH OUT advertising they yes they would struggle the same as Norwegian have this is simply due to people knowing 5he originality of the brand and know roughly where they fly for example I would not look at any of them if I was booking LGW to ALC so again you prove me right.

So if you have finished with your rant and want to read my post again feel free
Just a gentle reminder my post is about established airlines from other countries setting up in the UK and new airlines with confusing names to the general UK public
Nothing about established airlines changing their names.

daz211

15th Oct 2017, 10:39

Sorry just to make it a bit more simple for you as you obviously know nothing about brands or marketing

Question

Ask an America where British Airlines fly answer will be the UK
Ask a British citizen where American Airlines fly answer will be America
Ask a British or American where air canada fly they will say Canada

So let’s try again ask any of the above where do Norwegian fly I bet over 90% will say Norway.

chaps1954

15th Oct 2017, 10:50

Simple keep the country out of the name i:e Easyjet, Wizz, Ryanair

Harry Wayfarers

15th Oct 2017, 11:05

Ask an America where British Airlines fly answer will be the UK

Nope ... To the average American UK is called 'England' ... British Airways oinly fly to England.

chaps1954

15th Oct 2017, 11:07

No London lol!

LAX_LHR

15th Oct 2017, 12:36

The problem in the North of England is somewhat different, there is over capacity on many routes so yields are lower to start with, this part of the UK is very very price sensitive on bucket & spades routes.

People will readily fly at very unsocial hours to save a £5 a head, which is another £5 to spend on. Booze in the resort, many know that Ryanair is crap, but they can put up with being treated like dirt if they can save £20 a head ( or think they can) !!

Rather sweeping and inaccurate statment there really.

Let's not forget that the North West has the largest air market outside of London, with approx 32m passengers per year. That scale would not have been built up on crap yields for the pure s**t and giggles of it. Airlines are not charity cases.

Let's look at fares too shall we:, using Google flights as an example as it can be accessed by everyone easily

May 28th Malaga round trip for a few days:

LGW has the cheapest starting price of £156
BHX has the cheapest starting price of £133
MAN has the cheapest price starting price of £219
BRS has the cheapest starting price of £23
LPL has the cheapest starting price of £152

Same dates, Alicante:

LGW £156
MAN £185
BHX £233
BRS £171
LPL £168

PMI:

BRS £187
MAN £197
BHX £172
LGW £153
LPL £173

There is also a pretty similar story over the winter too on a fair few dates I looked at. Do those prices suggest that the north west singularly has an issue with yield? Overcapacity? Seems on par or better with the U.K. To be honest!

Also, one thing to consider is on board sales. For both Ryanair and Easyjet, the north west also has some of the best on board sales figures, which further boosts the airlines profitability. I know the southerners like to laugh at the Northern counties spending habits, but the airlines love it!

Skipness One Echo

15th Oct 2017, 12:53

Branding is a side issue, if you search for LON-Spain and Norwegian is alongside TUI, Thomas Cook and BA, you rather quickly think “Wow, Norwegian fly to Spain.” Aer Lingus at Gatwick were a bit part player and failed whereas DY threw serious money in to gain scale.

Harry Wayfarers

15th Oct 2017, 17:01

Flightrider

15th Oct 2017, 17:24

Outside of the "homeland" UK-Scandinavia market, I do not think Norwegian have made any tangible head-way on short-haul. Their strategy seems to be based purely on having the cheapest price by far in internet search engines on routes like LGW-AGP, LGW-DBV etc and then they wonder why their yields are low in the UK market. It's nuts - they do not even seem to be tracking competitor pricing and pitching £x below it as they are quite often (from the web searches when I've been booking flights) way way below the competition.

daz211

15th Oct 2017, 17:43

So do QANTAS only fly to Queensland and Northern Territories?

No but once again ask most people where Qantas fly to and most would say Australia.

I’m bringing this to an end because some people on here have no idea how important branding and marketing is when bringing an existing brand from one country to another.
I’m not explaining myself anymore but trust me it’s part of my job so I know
One day the some on here may catch up and understand or maybe not :ugh:

NorthernCounties

15th Oct 2017, 18:04

Probably already been mentioned but it’s all in the name unfortunately Norwegian suggests fly to Norway so without advertising and even with to some extent your already on a loosing battle don’t get me wrong Norwegian is not alone in my opinion there are a few examples and one that I can never understand is AerLingus it’s fine if it were an Irish domestic airline but when you are looking for Americans and Europeans to book not only do they not know what the words are they can’t spell it but I have the same worry for the new low cost airline setting up at Stansted next year Primera Air now I’m don’t pretend to be the sharpest tool in the box but I get confused when spelling it and don’t even know if I pronounce correctly so to me if you want to attract passengers from the start with out confusing then you need to get the name right don’t have a name you find it hard to spell don’t have a name of a country or region unless it’s your national country and don’t have a name that suggests that you only fly to the country in your name so to conclude a nice simple name that is recognised globally and easy to spell is the way forward

Thank god it´s evident that with 12 North American destinations bookable with Aer Lingus, North American´s ability to spell is better than yours... Lufthansa is established? What does that even mean? Should I infer that Aer Lingus is not despite it being older than Luftahansa (in its current form). Finally, Aer Lingus is simplified (anglicised) for the more thick amongst us, Air Fleet in Irish is actually aer loingeas.

daz211

15th Oct 2017, 18:21

Listen I can’t make it more simple than this

Who is going to sell more carpets A or B?

A carpets R us
B Mr sanders ltd

It’s not rocket science
Please let’s get back on track with this thread

vctenderness

16th Oct 2017, 09:07

I must admit I have spoken with quite a few people who were slightly put off from booking with Norwegian to destinations in Spain.

They seemed to think it was a bit odd that an airline called Norwegian was flying between Gatwick and Alicante.

willy wombat

16th Oct 2017, 10:02

I side with those who think branding may be an issue, as is awareness. I often get asked by friends (due to my airline background) questions along the lines of "I've found cheap seats to Spain on a company called Norwegian. Are they alright - I've never heard of them?" or "Why does an airline called Norwegian fly from Gatwick to Spain?" This of course could explain why, if the posts above are correct, they sell cheaper seats than the competitors as, as we all know, there is a large swathe of the public who would travel with an airline branded as Totters Independent Trading if the price was right.

racedo

19th Oct 2017, 21:11

Quick question................. flying from CPH-LGW in 2 weeks time after spending a few days in Sweden and training it to CPH for a few days.

When does online checkin open for this as slightly confusing.

01475

20th Oct 2017, 01:52

As well as poor brand awareness, I've always found it hard to work out where they actually fly; the website was never the best. It doesn't help that it'll offer you ridiculous connections via Scandinavia at immense price. If the first thing it offered you was EDI - AMS at immense cost and with a 10 hour flight via Oslo, why would you bother carrying on to find that actually, they do also fly direct flights from there to... I don't actually know; Spain or wherever.

If you dig deep enough into their website then yes, it does tell you. But even then it can be flawed. For example; it used to tell you you could fly from Tallinn to Edinburgh, but if you went in to book it what you'd find is that yes you can, but you can't get back...

inOban

20th Oct 2017, 07:18

Quite agree. The trick is to scroll down to the foot of the home page and click on the Where We Fly link. You will find a drop down menu of origin airports, and a choice of direct or transit, which always defaults to transit. Then you can see what direct routes are available from your chosen airport, what months, and the best fare.

EIFFS

20th Oct 2017, 17:19

The marketing works well for the London market, but even here brand awareness for Med routes is low not helped by the fact that non are yet released for summer 18 by which time Jet2 will no doubt have summer 19 on sale.

The US ops on the max seems to have settled down nicely, gather new routes to be announced within the next few weeks.

inOban

20th Oct 2017, 17:59

Barcelona and Tenerife are loaded from EDI. And Malaga from LGW. Which suggests that is all.

Buster the Bear

20th Oct 2017, 18:24

4-5 short haul routes are being axed from Gatwick to provide slots to increase long haul for summer 18.

davidjohnson6

20th Oct 2017, 20:01

Buster - what short haul routes are Norwegian cutting from Gatwick ? I've had a look at Norwegian's website - it seems as if for June 2018 while Gatwick-Nordics has been published, almost nothing between Gatwick and southern Europe has gone on sale yet

toledoashley

21st Oct 2017, 06:39

It's mainly the southern Europe services which are being cut - if not a complete withdrawal, then a hugely reduced service. I think for example Tenerife is going from 6x per week to 3.

Buster the Bear

21st Oct 2017, 16:00

I read it on the news wires, but didn't really take a lot of notice apart from that they will hardly be competing with easyJet now there is a feeder agreement in place.

Vokes55

21st Oct 2017, 19:55

If their current offering is to be the final program for 2018, it looks like going down to around 4-5 aircraft at Gatwick, down from 10. The two lines of flying for TUI have gone too.

Quite a reduction, especially given that they've just offered most of their LGW-based cabin crew permanent contracts.

davidjohnson6

21st Oct 2017, 23:20

It would also suggest a lot of slots have suddenly become available for lease/purchase in addition to the Monarch slots.
I doubt Norwegian will be happy to surrender Gatwick slots for free

EIFFS

22nd Oct 2017, 08:01

Me thinks you are getting ahead of youselves on this re next summer.

With the planned aircraft deliveries for 2018 and pilot recruitment plans announced internally added to permanent contract to this years summer cabin crew and new pilots allocated LGW, then I think there is a lot more to come, Norwegian are seeking more slots, not giving them up, the route portfolio will change not retract is the word and the planning.

Mr @ Spotty M

22nd Oct 2017, 10:54

Your figure of 10 aircraft is that for the B737 short-haul fleet?

racedo

22nd Oct 2017, 11:01

maxpeck

22nd Oct 2017, 11:20

https://www.norwegian.com/uk/travel-info/check-in-and-boarding/online-check-in/

racedo

22nd Oct 2017, 12:36

Cheers and try as i might I couldn't find it :ugh:

Vokes55

22nd Oct 2017, 19:36

Spotty M, it was my figure and yes that's for short haul based at Gatwick. This number includes one operating for NUK (G-NRWY), one spare and three aircraft that nightstop in OSL/ARN/CPH every night except Saturday, operated by LGW crew. Next Summer, from what I can see, is currently down to just CPH, ARN, OSL, TRD and AAL, plus AGP operated by AGP crew. The rest is DY.

I hope there's more to come

Mr @ Spotty M

22nd Oct 2017, 19:50

Thanks for that info, l make it 15 a/c are currently operating as based in LGW which includes all the various Norwegian operations of short and long-haul.

davidjohnson6

23rd Oct 2017, 07:01

My thought is that if we assume Norwegian's short haul network at Gatwick to southern Europe really is being slashed then a lot of slots suddenly become available for alternate use

01475

23rd Oct 2017, 15:50

Why? It makes far more sense for them to use the slots to fly to places the world and his uncle don't fly to!

Skipness One Echo

23rd Oct 2017, 17:00

Huge costs in opening a new short haul market, delayed revenue stream, associated marketing budget and no guarantee of profits if niche.

toledoashley

23rd Oct 2017, 20:59

DavidJohnson6 - The slots will be used to aid LH expansion. Lots of increases to daily and 2x daily JFK retained - I think LAX, OAK, BOS, JFK will all be at least daily.

rouelan

24th Oct 2017, 12:59

Norwegian closes BHX

New blow for Birmingham as Norwegian scraps all flights from the city to Spain (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/norwegian-axe-spain-routes-from-birmingham/)

I have never seen this kind of thing, closing routes 4 days before departure alluding to poor performance ???

Skipness One Echo

24th Oct 2017, 13:05

Norwegian came from nowhere and built up sun routes out of the UK, explicitly building up D8 on Irish registered aircraft to accomplish this. We see short haul profits and massive long haul losses and start up costs with the strategy now being downsize the short haul operation in favour of the more challenging long haul?

What are we missing here?

DavidJohnson6 - The slots will be used to aid LH expansion. Lots of increases to daily and 2x daily JFK retained - I think LAX, OAK, BOS, JFK will all be at least daily.
Are LGW slots not time of day specific? So the first wave departures and evening arrivals go back into the pot or are reshuffled?

chinapattern

24th Oct 2017, 13:06

toledoashley

24th Oct 2017, 13:20

I understand its Nordics will be reshuffled, with LH taking a larger slice.

Regarding switch from SH to LH - they believe they can get a higher yield on LH in the long run. Apparently doing really well from Gatwick, but want to eek out more if they can.

Skipness One Echo

24th Oct 2017, 14:36

Fair point but they were talking about feeding long haul with short haul. There's a load of smoke and mirrors here, it reminds me of Air Europe in a few ways.

inOban

24th Oct 2017, 15:47

It seems EDI is privileged. We have Tenerife right through W17/S18, and BCN returns for S18. Lost Malaga, though.

EIFFS

26th Oct 2017, 06:27

Norwegian today reported its third quarter results for 2017. The net result was 1 billion NOK, an improvement of 4 percent compared to the same quarter previous year. The load factor increased to 92 percent. The passenger development has been positive in all of Norwegian’s key markets, with a significant growth in the U.S. and Spain.

I haven’t yet read the full report but wet leases certainly cost them dearly.

Malaga & Madrid now in booking system for summer 18 ex LGW

BCN now in the booking system from LGW for summer 2018, so i guess more routes will be added over next few days/weeks

VickersVicount

9th Dec 2017, 08:19

Looking at the CAA stats the narrowbody transatlantic regional routes towards end of summer timetable dont make great reading. Is this still too early to judge or are these routes genuinely sustainable - looks like average for some only half or less full. With the low cost model id have thought youd need bums on seats

toledoashley

10th Dec 2017, 07:53

Heard that LGW is going to get an additional LH route to be announced in the new few weeks, and an additional MAX route (non-LGW).

EIFFS

10th Dec 2017, 21:54

Point 2 point SWF can be much quicker to downtown than JFK with the stage coach bus that meets inbound aircraft.

The problem from my perspective is two fold, firstly you can’t really go westbound with a full load and even when the aircraft get sat com to allow CPDLC they will still be too heavy to get much above 360, so you have to cap the load.

I think it would be worth taking say 5 or 6 rows out ( loss of 36 seats) and put 2 rows of business class seats restoring 8 seats so a net loss of 28 taking the seating down to 161

The only problem is that on some routes the aircraft do a quick Scandinavia trip between US flights and they tend to be full.

lfc84

11th Dec 2017, 22:25

are they operating a short haul programme in summer 18 or winter 18 from LGW ?

canberra97

11th Dec 2017, 22:32

Have you looked at their website?

1sky

11th Dec 2017, 22:33

You need to include the significant added weight of business class seats too.

MDS

13th Dec 2017, 14:53

Impressive performance of the B38M on their winter operations, showing the power of the jetstream.

2 days ago:

PVD-SNN, block of 4:52
SNN-PVD, block of 7:30

I see EDI-BDL taking over 7:45 routinely. Latter stages of the flight show a groundspeed of only 250 knots, with up to 625 knots on return. Crazy!

After recently taking a BDL-EDI flight, it was definitely adequate for the journey, and I'd definitely fly a 737 across the Atlantic again.

nguba

14th Dec 2017, 10:53

Yet more expansion with transatlantic flights from Amsterdam, Madrid and Milan:

Newsdesk - Norwegian (http://media.norwegian.com/us/#/pressreleases/norwegian-expands-us-network-with-flights-to-madrid-amsterdam-and-milan-2331051)

VickersVicount

17th Dec 2017, 16:48

Was surprised to see Scandinavian DY flights to BOS now scrapped for S18... whats going on there? BOS often seen as a 'weak' market but not as much as some of those secondary US routes..

EIFFS

18th Dec 2017, 07:18

Many of the secondary US airports flights are unsurprisingly full this next week and loads are in general improving, I guess it takes time to build the traffic and this is reflected in the prices. Norwegian on board product is superior to the likes of easy,FR & wow, but for 7 hour flights it need to further improve IFE to seat back and a premium section would help, there is only so long you can watch Mr Bean mini movies on an overhead screen !!

they are increasing the number of premium seats on the Dreamliner I gather

Jerry123

18th Dec 2017, 13:21

I thought Norwegian had free inflight WiFi to negate the need for seat back IFE?

CabinCrewe

18th Dec 2017, 14:40

I thought some of the Oct/Nov stats suggested the secondary US loads were worse rather than improving?

A350Saltire

18th Dec 2017, 15:27

Not sure how we deduce that given we cannot make a like for like comparison with the same month last year as the flights only started in June this year.

It is pretty obvious however that October/November loads would be less than summer loads though. If the loads have picked up again in December then great but we will only see if things are improving or not if we can make like for like comparisons.

I would imagine that DY will appreciate that these routes will take some time to grow given the nature of them. I still speak to people now who have no idea they exist which is a shame as there is so much untapped demand there who may well jump at the chance to fly from UK to US and back for under £200.

737aviator

18th Dec 2017, 19:00

I thought Norwegian had free inflight WiFi to negate the need for seat back IFE?

Not fitted on the 737 Max until they get their first C checks.

Una Due Tfc

18th Dec 2017, 19:04

Will they be getting CPDLC? Would help the economics greatly if they did...

lederhosen

18th Dec 2017, 19:52

Can you explain the economic benefit of CPDLC for those of us perhaps less well informed.

Una Due Tfc

18th Dec 2017, 20:17

Aircraft without it are not allowed between FL350 and FL390 on the North Atlantic due separation requirements. Until this month it was only a requirement on the NAT tracks during their published operating times, now it’s a requirement 24/7, 365 for the entire North Atlantic, so unless flights can climb to FL400 before oceanic entry (assuming FL400 is available) then they’re stuck at FL340 or below for the entire oceanic crossing.

In a couple of years, all RVSM airspace (ie FL290-FL410) will require CPDLC.

lederhosen

19th Dec 2017, 10:25

OK thanks, we have it. But given the disjointed nature of the coverage on a lot of our routes, the benefits have so far been less than obvious at times. Making it mandatory is the way to go, including all atc. providers. Then it will be a real step forward.

Skipness One Echo

19th Dec 2017, 12:06

Not fitted on the 737 Max until they get their first C checks.
Why is this? Brand new aircraft goes into service without WiFi?

EIFFS

19th Dec 2017, 14:15

Skippness

The WiFi & sat comm hump is fitted at Boeing, I did read about a new WiFi contract that will significantly increase band with.

All Norwegian aircraft have CPDLC but require VHF contact for it to work, sat comm will be installed shortly, the big benefit will come East bound when due to average TWC the fuel required and thus the aircraft mass is much less making a higher cruise level possible further reducing fuel required.

West bound head winds means that in most cases it’s not possible to get above 340 even if we could prior to NAT entry, as soon as we leave NAT off the coast of Canada we climb up to 380 this saves around 2% on the remaining couple or so hours.

annakm

28th Dec 2017, 19:15

LAX_LHR

28th Dec 2017, 19:40

Easyjet don’t serve any BHX-Spain routes so can’t see how Norwegian have passed those routes over?

Navpi

28th Dec 2017, 19:59

The major problem with the Telegraph headline is the negativity re Birmingham. A number of MPs have inexplicably linked UK aviation capacity to Heathrow but put forward Birmingham as a "possible' answerwith the advent of HS2.

This is of course laughable but any bad publicity (as above) could be misconstrued in some quarters as a reflection on expansion of STN or indeed MAN which continue to go from strength to strength.

Anything outside the M25 is described as regional so if one fails the media will suggest others will to.

Plane.Silly

29th Dec 2017, 08:13

@LAX_LHR

It does seem strange. Normally the mix of RYR/EZY (and EXS to a degree) goes down well. Maybe they see it more as a business airport, BHX being the 2nd UK city? Leaving others to scoop up the 'riffraff'

LAX_LHR

29th Dec 2017, 08:49

But Easyjet do serve ‘business’ routes and see a good proportion of ‘suits’ as well as buckets and spades, so the business Airport case doesn’t stack up.

BHX has suffered with yield in the past, and Easyjet have good as said this is an issue in the Midlands too.

chaps1954

29th Dec 2017, 09:24

MAN is very much a business airport, I know this is a bit of a sore point but I am not sure
Birmingham is now the second city anymore

Plane.Silly

29th Dec 2017, 09:41

So back to the original point. If EZY don't serve BHX-Spain then Norwegian (remember this is their thread) then they might be seeing RYR/EXS as a major threat to them. RYR is obviously a challenge for its lower fares, but i would have thought they could compete with EXS's fare level at least.
And for the catchment size, i would have thought the market could afford 3 main players (at least until MON went under)

compton3bravo

29th Dec 2017, 11:51

Manchester a business airport, you're having a laugh. Went through there in October for the first time in many years - not impressed. The only UK airport I would suggest is a 'business' airport would be London City. As for Norwegian I think they are finding it rather tough in the UK short haul market and have decided rightly or wrongly to concentrate on long haul. Time will tell but I have serious doubts.

Albert Hall

29th Dec 2017, 12:34

Could it also be that with Primera arriving at BHX then Norwegian saw no point in either short haul or long haul prospects at BHX, so have exited completely as they can make a better return by building something strategic with that aircraft capacity elsewhere?

easyflyer83

29th Dec 2017, 13:44

MAN is a big bucket and spade airport. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. MAN does have a lot of business travellers and a previously under estimated demand for J and even F class travel. But to call it a business airport is a misrepresentation IMO. Leisure, in whatever form that takes these days, is the bread that very much goes with the ‘business’ butter. If you were to take that away tomorrow, MAN would be a shadow of what it is today.

BHX will always struggle being sandwiched between the LON airports and MAN. Historically, in charter days, MAN and LGW were always favoured over BHX. The second city argument will continue to rumble on and be a bone of contention but if it was to be argued purely on airports, there really is no contest.

OltonPete

29th Dec 2017, 13:55

Looking back at the CAA stats Norwegian started BHX in March 2015 operating Madrid as the sole operator only for every man and his dog to pile on the route, Barcelona was alongside Ryanair and Monarch (seasonal at the time) and then joined by Vueling with Malaga having Ryanair, Monarch and Thomson all year round and then joined by Vueling and finally BACF.

Fares outside of the school holidays were light to say the least and thus the claim of poor yields seems reasonable.

Loads I would say that in general they fared better than Vueling (especially in winter) but the brand recognition (only a personal opinion) never really got established at BHX although those who tried them heaped praise on their product in general.

It was noticeable that it was before Monarch went under and Primera announced their impending flights that they hadn't any winter flights on sale and I assume neither had any bearing on their decision and it appears they were going come what may.

Did they make bad choices in respect of the routes they chose? This is a difficult question but with Madrid and Malaga and later Tenerife I would say no, as at the time there was enough spare capacity at BHX, although I would not say the same of Las Palmas which was short-lived and Barcelona they must have known that they were entering into a battle.

With Madrid they were just unlucky as who would have thought after years without a service, that IBS, FR and ZB would take it on in quick succession.

I think in the end it was over-capacity and even the Monarch loss could not persuade them to change their mind and obviously Vueling have come to the same decision as well (minus Barcelona which remains).

It seems it was just a case they came, tried hard, gave the routes time and circumstances changed to make continued operations impossible and they have moved on.

Maybe some lessons to be learned by BHX in respect of multiple operators on a single route but at the end of the day if an airline wants to operate and pay the fees it is unlikely that they will be turned away.

BHX5DME

29th Dec 2017, 14:26

easyflyer83

I also don't want to start the MAN V BHX / 2nd debate but agree MAN has a better airport and football teams but Birmingham is still the UK's 2nd City in terms of population etc.

Albert Hall

29th Dec 2017, 14:47

Having flown through both a few times this year, I would say it is a question between BHX and MAN as to which airport is least bad, not best. Security at both leaves an incredible amount to be desired.

Seljuk22

6th Jan 2018, 15:03

2017
Passengers: 33,149,555 +13%
Load factor: 87.5% -0.2p.p.
https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/global/traffic-figures-december-2017.pdf

The company took delivery of 32 brand new aircraft and launched 54 new routes, mainly between Europe and the U.S.
http://media.norwegian.com/uk/#/pressreleases/norwegian-reports-record-high-year-end-traffic-figures-carried-over-33-million-passengers-in-2017-2358859

Outlook for 2018
Newsdesk - Norwegian (http://media.norwegian.com/uk/#/pressreleases/norwegian-reveals-its-biggest-ever-year-of-growth-in-2018-2355093)

VickersVicount

15th Jan 2018, 18:48

Sounds like a big cull on the 737 Transatlantic experiment with various reductions and cancellations.
Wonder if more to come. Can't think of an immediate new alternatives they could shift these routes to. Im guessing for the likes of EDI with BDL Windsor Locks gone, only one ETOPs 737 will be needed now. With some of those loads Im not all that surprised tbh.

sinbad73

15th Jan 2018, 19:28

EDI-BDL ends March 25: Bradley airport loses Norwegian Air flights to Scotland | masslive.com (http://www.masslive.com/business-news/index.ssf/2018/01/bradley_airport_loses_norwegian_air_flig.html)

Plane.Silly

16th Jan 2018, 07:27

A shame, but not surprising. When it first started i questioned whether the demand would be there. Hopefully it means the a/c can be utilised elsewhere for increased frequency

toledoashley

16th Jan 2018, 07:37

They are shifting capacity to Ireland, where APD isnt a factor + stronger links to America.

Skipness One Echo

16th Jan 2018, 09:26

Newsdesk - Norwegian (http://media.norwegian.com/uk/#/pressreleases/norwegian-reports-record-high-year-end-traffic-figures-carried-over-33-million-passengers-in-2017-2358859)
Norwegian reports record high year-end traffic figures: Carried over 33 million passengers in 2017
Not record profits which is the whole point of the exercise, key point, they're going all out for market share and volume.

WINDSOR LOCKS -- Low-cost carrier Norwegian Air will stop its weekly flights between Bradley International Airport and Edinburgh, Scotland, citing delays in a Scottish tax break the airline expected.

The decision means Norwegian Air will completely pull out of Bradley. The flights began in June and will end March 25.
They had banked on politicians dropping APD to make money? Dropping everything from Bradley so quickly suggests they've not done their homework and are just throwing aircaft into markets to drive volume.

j636

16th Jan 2018, 11:23

BGO-PVD also cut and freq is cut other routes at EDI with DUB/SNN getting extra PVD flights.

crewmeal

16th Jan 2018, 16:40

Looks like they're putting all their eggs in the Gatwick basket judging by the expansion.

LN-KGL

17th Jan 2018, 08:29

Skipness 1E, there are many reasons for why an airline drops flying between two airports after such a short time, but contrary to many other airlines Norwegian tries and tests new routes all the time. Many of them can't fly, but there are some of them that can fly on their own. Over time Norwegian have developed new markets, but they have also big failures. You Skipness 1E seems to concentrate on failures, while other of us looks at successes - the glass is half empty or the glass is half full.

One thing is for certain, Norwegian try to develope the industry, not preserve it like some of the dinosaurs do.

Navpi

17th Jan 2018, 21:30

Do we really think that Bradley to Edinburgh would have been a success had they slashed APD ?

Personally I think not.

I think it's a smokescreen and dare I say it, for a route that was badly thought through and was always going to he problematic.

Slashing APD would not have made any difference to this route

toledoashley

17th Jan 2018, 22:00

My understanding is there are a number of reasons why Bradley was dropped. Its location - too far from either NY or Boston with a lack of support from the local tourist board, APD and a stronger Irish market.

GoEDI

17th Jan 2018, 22:10

I presume there was nothing stopping them from switching BDL to SNN or DUB if APD was such a big issue... BDL was probably just a destination too far at this stage. It isn't all that far from PVD or SWF where their ops are focused, and they have the added benefit of NY and Boston nearby.

Skipness One Echo

17th Jan 2018, 23:21

One thing is for certain, Norwegian try to develope the industry, not preserve it like some of the dinosaurs
Not develop, disrupt. Nothing wrong there it’s classic marketing. They alienate me with their Ryanair like approach to staffing which in fairness has been reigned in somewhat. Their smug anticipation that SAS would go bust with a shove from them I found hubristic. The notion they’d swoop in and fill the gap with a new fleet and sweep up experienced staff to work for way less make me look at them like the little vultures they are. Except dinosaur SAS didn’t fail and DY/DU/D8/DI etc have an enormous amount of aircraft they now need to fly which is EXACTLY why they thought they could make money flying EDI-BDL in December. I love a good upstart, used to love Branson but at the end of they day they’re just a business trying to make themselves a was of money. I’ve got a D8 booking and a 789 booking coming up, I am sure they’ll be great, but am not a fan boy of this sort of capitalism any more than SRB or WW.
Bottom line Norwegian’s expansion looks like a bubble that may go pop very quickly in the next downturn but that’s just my view. Launching the unprecedented volume of seats to the US in winter is just desperation IMHO. Even from a strategic view, they serve NYC out of JFK on a wide body and SWF on a narrow body. Argentina being launched, DY static, D8 getting smaller at LGW and long haul growing aggresively. i.e. retracting in mature markets where one would be expecting good numbers by now in favour of launching ventures in long haul. Am Scottish, glass half empty comes easily

EIFFS

18th Jan 2018, 07:42

Part of the reason why the Irish market is stronger than the Scottish one is the very large Irish populations around the eastern seaboard plus the additional ADP levy in Scotland.

I think it might work better by shifting the Scottish routes to JFK or BOS but that would significantly increase the cost.

No evidence of D8 getting smaller at LGW 11 aircraft 3 to be used for Tui charter and some rumoured long thin routes to come

I guess the revenue from APD helps prop up PIK

840

18th Jan 2018, 09:22

I presume there was nothing stopping them from switching BDL to SNN or DUB if APD was such a big issue...

The subsidised Aer Lingus flight to Dublin is a good reason for not switching to DUB.

Shannon is a much smaller market than either Dublin or Edinburgh, although I could have seen it working as a summer-only route dependent on US tourists.

Skipness One Echo

18th Jan 2018, 09:51

No evidence of D8 getting smaller at LGW 11 aircraft 3 to be used for Tui charter and some rumoured long thin routes to come
Except they're using three of their own aircraft for someone else rather than for themselves or building a hub. Great call on revenue but strategically that's nowhere.

TOM100

18th Jan 2018, 10:07

Still it is a smart move in very competitive market and guaranteed cash flow - BA does charters from LHR for Mark Warner and Club Med - I appreciate it is on a weekend when their own fleet is not fully utilised but its guaranteed income and cash in an uncertain world......just ask Carillion about the importance of cash !

EIFFS

18th Jan 2018, 10:14

They are slot constrained at LGW and my understanding is that that these are Tui slots?

Further the flying of Tui pax does generate revenue without risk and is a good way of promoting Norwegian to people who perhaps haven’t flown with them before, the charter market is very important tool for reducing winter losses.

With regards to the EDI v Irish market a flight out of EDI to SWF on the 8th of Feb returning on the 18th will cost you £280.70 of which taxes and charges make up £142.80 meanwhile over in SNN out on the same day but back on the 21st (flight doesn’t run everyday) it costs £249.00 of which taxes are just £66.90.

The SNP had vowed to cut APD by 50% in April this year but this is now subject to a judicial review.

This market is price sensitive, most who are flying are students and families spending their own money, very few suits from what i have seen.

BDL has alway been the weakest from EDI

_aax1

18th Jan 2018, 21:14

Anyone heard any rumours of how Norwegian will utilise their new slots at LGW?

Any new routes to be announced? If so, will they be long haul wide body or long haul narrow body routes do we think?

Vokes55

18th Jan 2018, 21:21

TUI program is now four aircraft for this Summer, operated by NAI (EI-reg) aircraft with TUI slots.

crewmeal

19th Jan 2018, 05:50

Any new routes to be announced?

Norwegian Airlines are launching low-cost flights to Argentina | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/gatwick-buenos-aires-norwegian-british-airways-a7803471.html)

toledoashley

19th Jan 2018, 05:59

Norwegian are using the new slots this summer on a number of short haul flights - mainly greece and croatia.

EIFFS

19th Jan 2018, 10:22

aax1

With 11 787-9 To be delivered in 2018 I would expect to see further route announcements from LGW during the spring together with frequency increases, JFK 3 times daily if the can get the right slot at JFK

Many rumours are doing the rounds about a package of shall we say interesting long narrow body destinations.

I’ll believe it when it’s on my roster

canberra97

19th Jan 2018, 10:43

Any expansion by Norwegian to other airports in the USA would no doubt include Baltimore at some point I should imagine.

EIFFS

19th Jan 2018, 10:49

The dedicated bus transfer between SWF & NYC announced that they’ve just carried their 50’000 passenger since operations commenced back in June 17

This bus is timed around Norwegians flights and waits if the flight is running late.

gnarlberg

20th Jan 2018, 00:41

hey guys. couldn't find any news about it, but when is Norwegian receiving its A320neos and 321LR?

rowly6339

20th Jan 2018, 08:08

New record held by Norwegian for JFK - LGW

Norwegian sets record for fastest flight from New York to London - Business Insider (http://uk.businessinsider.com/norwegian-sets-record-for-fastest-flight-from-new-york-to-london-2018-1?r=US&IR=T)

Got to love that tail wind.

c52

20th Jan 2018, 10:20

According to Wikipedia, 30 A321LR begin to be delivered next year. The structure of the airline and its Wikipedia entries is such that I can't be bothered to run through all the subsidiaries.

My memory tells me that they ordered 100 A320s to be leased out rather than operated.

EIFFS

20th Jan 2018, 22:36

Of the 100 A320 on firm order 30 were switched to the A321NeoLR delivery starts 2019

CabinCrewe

1st Feb 2018, 08:30

Shannon upgrade, Edinburgh confirmed downgrade for PVD
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/276960/norwegian-s18-providence-service-changes-as-of-31jan18/

Skipness One Echo

8th Feb 2018, 08:52

Just got an email saying my LGW-OAK booking in Sep has been changed from a DY operated flight to a DI one, of course this makes no odds in the wider world but.....

Up until now, only LGW-SIN has flown under the DI "Red Nose" banner. Everything else has been under DY "Norshuttle".
What's the rationale for only this one route until now?

Norwegian Air UK has been around for a while, firstly with a single B737 and latterly with a new fleet of G- registered B787-9s, as well as a couple of LN- ones too. Is it a paperwork thing and now everything LGW based and on the UK register will be DI leaving the Irish 737s as D8 "Nortrans"?

KelvinD

14th Feb 2018, 04:38

There is a piece on the BBC this morning re Norwegian's new service between Gatwick and Buenos Aires:
The low-cost airline changing the way we fly - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43049554)

pax britanica

14th Feb 2018, 12:18

There is always a cost for low prices so how do Norwegian do it especially as HQ is in one of worlds most expensive countries

Why does Uk allow foreign entities to make money at our expense -with Brexit in place we can evict Norwegian and Ryanair can't we ?

After all could hardly do a reciprocal deal to attack new customers in Norway which has the population of Watford , our Government would never allow a foreign airline of debately financial stability to siphon off huge amounts of UK based traffic in ridiculously un-balanced traffic relationships would they?

PDXCWL45

14th Feb 2018, 12:40

It's called the free market. Also Norwegian have an UK AOC so they are a UK airline and what they are doing is no different to Easyjet in the EU.

southside bobby

14th Feb 2018, 12:55

pax britanica.

So the answer would be?...

Would it entail perhaps handing over wads of money to the status quo again for air travel such as BA?...which actually is part of an International Grouping anyway!!

Be careful agendas are slipping.

pholling

14th Feb 2018, 13:27

It more than that, to evict the Norwegians and Ryanairs you would also have to evict BA and VS as they will both be majority owned by non UK entities.

LGS6753

14th Feb 2018, 13:32

It is likely that Norwegian will be allowed to retain its UK operations after Brexit. It is in the UK's interests, well understood by all, that our economy will thrive when as open and as free as possible. Expect Wizzair, IAG, EasyJet, Ryanair and Norwegian to continue operations uninterrupted.

southside bobby

14th Feb 2018, 13:37

Yup agree..

I just pulled BA out as one example...the list would go on for sure..

TUI..TCX for 2 more..

Why end with pax ops..

Overseas cargo ops listing would be extensive..

southside bobby

14th Feb 2018, 13:41

& yes of course..it was just a counter to a quite unreal post by "pax" originally..

EIFFS

14th Feb 2018, 14:14

Pax Brit

Actually Norwegian UK is a UK company with a very significant presence in the UK where it employees upwards of a 1000 people who pay taxes to the UK Government, it buys RR engines for its Dream liner fleet of which there will be 32 787 on the fleet by year end.

As a UK registered airline it will not be effected in respect of UK traffic rights when/if Brexit happens

compton3bravo

14th Feb 2018, 17:05

I fear Pax Britannia is a little Englander.

darren1

14th Feb 2018, 19:40

EIFFS

The truth isn't going to stop someone bleating on about things they know little of.

Buster the Bear

14th Feb 2018, 20:38

Blimey! Another failing to recognise the results of a democratic vote!

inOban

14th Feb 2018, 20:48

Unfortunately too many people voted with their heart, not their head. The remain campaign failed to engage people's emotions.

davidjohnson6

14th Feb 2018, 21:13

Could we try to keep this thread for discussion about Norwegian rather than Brexit please ?
There's a thread on Brexit in JetBlast with over 25,000 comments - I imagine people will be only too happy to debate Brexit with you there...

KelvinD

14th Feb 2018, 21:24

canberra97

14th Feb 2018, 21:35

For now yes but over time we're see more of those aircraft added to Norwegian UK AOC as it grows.

racedo

14th Feb 2018, 21:43

Why does Uk allow foreign entities to make money at our expense -with Brexit in place we can evict Norwegian and Ryanair can't we ?

?

So evict foreign companys because they make money in UK like
Walmart
Honda
Toyota
Nissan
BMW
DHL
Fujitsu
Aldi
Lidl
Ford
GM

Interesting :ugh:

aox

14th Feb 2018, 23:35

Flitefone

15th Feb 2018, 03:02

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Splendid_Exchange

crewmeal

15th Feb 2018, 05:24

So back on track, what are the bookings like for the new Buenos Aires route from Gatwick?

AirportPlanner1

15th Feb 2018, 06:35

Actually, Norwegian UK is not as big as implied in post #182. They have 1 x 737 and 11 x 787.
On the other hand, Norwegian Air International, based in Ireland has 69 x 737, Norwegian Long Haul, based in Norway, boasts 13 x 787 and Norwegian Air Argentina has just 1 x 737.

Maybe the airline isn’t as big as implied but there is still the small matter of RR engines which keep a few people in Derby off the streets

pholling

15th Feb 2018, 08:53

It's called the free market. Also Norwegian have an UK AOC so they are a UK airline and what they are doing is no different to Easyjet in the EU.

It is actually closer to what Easyjet will be doing in the UK. EasyJet corporate is in the process of becoming majority EU and not UK owners (by changing a shareholder's declaration). From that point EasyJet UK will be in the same boat as Norwegian Longhaul UK, BA, TUI UK, and VS. They are all going to be majority owned by non UK entities, most of them by EU shareholders. I can imagine that TCX will end up that way to preserve Condor (or they will have to divest a portion of it).

Of course there is the issue that a number of countries may prohibit UK registered aircraft and crew from flying after March 2019 as the CAA does not, currently, have the authority or expertise to maintain airworthiness as they surrendered that ability to EASA in the past. Of course there are a number of deals that could be made to prevent this, but no action could be catastrophic. This isn't including the increased regulatory cost that UK carriers will face going forward if the CAA's rules are not harmonised with the US and EU.

crewmeal

15th Feb 2018, 17:38

Australia?

Norwegian may offer budget flights from Australia to UK | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5396333/Norwegian-offer-budget-flights-Australia-UK.html)

tonyb

15th Feb 2018, 20:45

At what point do the CAA look closely at the finances of this shambles of an airline now that much of the long haul is on a UK AOC?
When Monarch were in problems there were aircraft all over the place to rescue pax.
It's a long way to Argentina.

nguba

16th Feb 2018, 09:31

There is just an implausibility to it all. You can’t lose money and then say we’re going to add more aircraft and capacity to grow to profitability.

toledoashley

16th Feb 2018, 09:37

From what I understand their issue is yield, they don't seem to have a problem filling the aircraft (especially on long haul). There are plans in place for example to increase the Premium seating, and have a more focused approach to ancillary revenue. They seem to know where the issues are, and if they can address them, then they can keep growing.

EIFFS

16th Feb 2018, 11:40

If this was a tech stock no one would bat an eyelid, but of course it’s not!

I’m only surprised that loss isn’t greater, put simply you can’t add aircraft and crews at the rate Norwegian have this past year especially long haul and the forward investment required and make money, last year the likes of Titan made more money from Norwegian than clearly Norwegian made for themselves, this apparently won’t happen this year, but with 11 Dreamliner being added and all those new routes net profits will be slim to say the least.

I think that provided they can trade through the summer then good profitability will return but this industry is very sensitive to geopolitical events that are almost impossible to predict.

This is a very different situation to Monarch

maxpeck

16th Feb 2018, 12:14

Looks a lot like Air Berlin to be honest, time for a shake up somewhere at the top with a more cautious board. Feels like time is running out.

Logohu

16th Feb 2018, 12:35

Australia ?! Is the Daily Fail having a laugh ? On a per kilometre basis it's a low yield route and up against some of the best airlines in the world and their A380s. EK would eat Norwegian for breakfast !

As for trying to improve yield by going premium, when they realize full planes doesn't necessarily mean big profits ? Well I suppose that's been tried and tested over the years by names like Laker, People Express and Air Berlin and it worked out well for them.

Would love to be proved wrong, but this increasingly looks like an airline that has lost its way

DuctOvht

16th Feb 2018, 12:39

The business model is fundamentally flawed. Although they like to claim otherwise, Norwegian haven’t reinvented the wheel.

Low cost short haul works because costs can be cut to the very bone, aircraft utilisation is massive and so on. That just isn’t the case with long haul, it never has been and never will be. It would only ever work like IAG are doing it, where they go after a section of the market that would otherwise not be flying with their other brands, but in a way that complements their existing operations. Size and economies of scale being critical but even then there are no guarantees the model would work.

The 787 is a very pricey aircraft to purchase and/or lease. Yes it’s fuel efficient but not enough to make the difference for an Airline like Norwegian. It’s one of the reasons Level are flying the A330. I believe that if the oil price was closer to $100, Norwegian would already be consigned to the history books. The real issue is yield, or lack of it. I’ve read an analysis of the numbers stating that Norwegian’s break even load factor for 2017 was 95.9% and the 4th quarter was 99.4% That tells you all you need to know.

The current marketplace is probably as good as it gets for the industry. In that market, they’re producing woeful results. Given their cash situation, the competition they face & their aircraft orders etc. I’d give them 18 months at best.

Navpi

16th Feb 2018, 12:45

Credit FT

Some meat on the bone or not as the case may be.

Norwegian makes bigger than expected net loss
Budget carrier struggles to control costs as it rapidly expands into long-haul arena

The airline's desire to lead the market in low-cost transatlantic flights has led to turbo-charged growth over the past five years.

Norwegian Air Shuttle made a bigger than expected net loss in the last three months of 2017, as the budget carrier struggled to control costs as it rapidly expanded into low-cost long-haul flying.

The airline has become a disruptive force in the European airline industry over the past few years, leading the charge in bringing down the cost of long-haul flying and forcing rivals to respond with their own budget services.

But Norwegian’s fourth-quarter results, which saw the Scandinavian carrier swing to a net loss of NKr919m ($117m) from a profit of NKr197m a year ago, has added to growing concerns about its rapid expansion and the pressure this is putting on costs.

maxpeck

16th Feb 2018, 12:46

Where did you read the break even load factor was so high, maybe there is time to change things around, or hopefully someone like IAG buys them and integrates it somehow. But the clock is ticking it feels like.

DuctOvht

16th Feb 2018, 12:50

An analysis of the results in another place (which admittedly I haven’t fact checked). In my opinion Norwegian have been ripe for takeover for a long time and nobody has gone for it. That speaks volumes to me.

Heathrow Harry

16th Feb 2018, 13:36

why would anyone buy them?

DuctOvht

16th Feb 2018, 14:27

Exactly. I’d also question, who would invest in them?

nguba

16th Feb 2018, 14:28

The level of debt is simply too high for anyone to buy them. The organisational structure of multiple AOCs also makes it more difficult.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year when BA converts some of the Monarch slots to long-haul and whether IAG/BA really go after them.

inOban

16th Feb 2018, 15:56

Surely it's not the load factor which is important, it's the total revenue (ticket plus ancillary) from the flight. There's no point in filling the plane if everyone is paying loss leading fares.

I notice from EDI at the moment most flights are showing ca £150, which expect is below cost, but in the peak season this summer they're over £300, which I hope isn't.

Certainly they should slow their route growth, and seek to lease out some planes,say to the growth markets in Asia.

toledoashley

16th Feb 2018, 16:17

The problem with Asia is that Russia have refused overflight - so to the likes of China/Hong Kong/Japan which they would like to fly to, they can't. As I said earlier - they are working hard at increasing yield - in part with more premium seating and increasing ancillary revenue.

DuctOvht

16th Feb 2018, 16:56

Which means that rather than bleed money attempting to undercut established carriers with their questionable employment practices & dodgy business model, they will actually have to compete on the competition’s turf. At that point route frequency, on board product, customer service, disruption management, reward programs, alliances (...the list is endless) come into real focus and they are no longer selling seats to millennial’s looking for the cheapest ticket they can get.

Any and all of that requires significant and continued investment which they simply don’t have the money for.

El Bunto

18th Feb 2018, 07:09

If this was a tech stock no one would bat an eyelid, but of course it’s not!

That's very insightful actually.

Uber, the car-hailing service, lost another $1.1 billion in Q4 2017 for a year-total loss of $4.5 billion. It has never made a profit and is well over $10 billion in debt. Yet people keep investing. And they don't even own their own fleet - not much in the way of assets.

Meanwhile a large airline with about $5 billion in aircraft assets alone makes an 2017 annual loss of $38 million, after a 2016 profit, and people start predicting apocalypse. Get some perspective. $38 million would barely pay the Board's remuneration in some airlines.

Copenhagen

20th Feb 2018, 04:17

Perspective doesn’t put dollars in the bank Bunto.

Norwegian has a huge problem - the short American summer is resulting in a black hole of revenue in the long off peak months.

Aer Lingus, with all their feed and brand awareness didn’t hit revenue targets in Hartford, yet Norwegian expected Edinburgh to be a success?

EIFFS

20th Feb 2018, 06:58

New market for Norwegian and a learning curve, but yes an odd choice, unsurprisingly SWF and to a lessor extent PVD are doing really well from Dublin.

Buster the Bear

20th Feb 2018, 15:43

I remember reading not so long ago that Norwegian have a number of A320Neo family aircraft parked up as the airlines destined to lease them, do not want them yet due issues with the P&W GTF engines. This was costing Norwegian hundreds of thousands of dollars per month. This alone must be affecting the bottom line even though I am sure compensation is being paid?

_aax1

20th Feb 2018, 17:10

I don't understand their logic with their different long haul business models. On the one hand you've got London, Paris, Barcelona etc flying to major airports (excl OAK and FLL, but both still sizeable and have good transport links, especially OAK) with a two class aircraft. But from Ireland, NI and Scotland they're flying to tiny airports far far away from the cities the majority of pax wish to fly to with a single class aircraft.

Hasn't the short haul LCC revolution not taught airlines that pax don't want to fly to secondary airports? easyJet years ago and Ryanair more recently driving growth away from distant secondary airports.

Also their ancillary offering is poor, I've never known an airline to give away a XL seat in a cheap bundle fare for only £50 extra.

They need to embrace technology more, particularly mobile technology to increase ancillary. Fitting more premium seats in? Why don't they introduce their bidding system on their app when people are at the airport and likely to consider an upgrade if they got a push notification. They could easily raise ancillary without damaging their brand.

toledoashley

20th Feb 2018, 18:17

_aax On the first part, Norwegian have said on their latest podcast that they are operating the 'MAX' transatlantic as a different offering. In their words, ultra low cost, and very price sensitive. It seems to be working in Ireland. Have a listen to it as its really interesting.

They have also acknowledged they are poor in the ancillary revenue - they are already starting to price seats accordingly (exit row more etc).

Vokes55

20th Feb 2018, 19:29

Wizzair lost 78 million Euros in their first six years of operation. They're still here.

EIFFS

21st Feb 2018, 12:11

Actually you couldn’t be more wrong on that, SWF is no further from down Town NY in terms of travel time than JFK, you’ll be through homeland security within 15 mins and flights from DUB & SNN have pre clearance so its just like getting off a domestic flight, collect bags and you are gone, there is a shuttle bus outside the terminal (often a couple of them) to take you down town in 60-90 minutes it waits for the flights if late for any reason.

PVD is 60 minutes and $65 by uber to BOS Logan but there is a huge population all the way down the coast from BOS to NYC, a lot of Irish families and of course the is the not so small matter of APD which is €3 from Ireland or BFS but closer to £90 from EDI

SWF is going double daily starting in April from Dublin, if the SNP go back on their promise to half APD i think Norwegian will walk away from the US or go very seasonal.

Going into KBOS or KJFK would add significant handling costs and crew delays, plus its a market already served, so this is in the main new volume attracted by low fares, the spend on seat allocation and pre booked meals is very high as you would expect on a 7 hour flight.

TBSC

22nd Feb 2018, 09:05

Wizzair lost 78 million Euros in their first six years of operation. They're still here.The reason they are still here is that they make 250-260 million EUR a year while expanding 18-20%.

Skipness One Echo

22nd Feb 2018, 10:16

Going into KBOS or KJFK would add significant handling costs and crew delays, plus its a market already served, so this is in the main new volume attracted by low fares, the spend on seat allocation and pre booked meals is very high as you would expect on a 7 hour flight.
Someone needs to tell those poor saps trying this out of Gatters. What's their name again? Flying brand new B787-9s....oh God that's so annoying, Swedish Air Shuttle or something?
OK in all seriousness, you can't market the benefits of doing something the Norwegian way whilst mentioning how much better it is than the (other) Norwegian way of doing things (!) It's a fragmented strategy, going Hell for leather for market share is one thing, but as you can see it brings problems of positioning. Once you pay for your meal and seat it's seldom bargain basement pricing anyway.

EIFFS

22nd Feb 2018, 14:48

I take your point, but we are talking about route capacity and aircraft size, the whole point of long range short haul aircraft is allowing the opening of routes that wouldn’t work with a wide body.

Many visiting the US from LGW will be tourists visiting the big Apple or Chicago or Seattle

Of course there is tourism to Rhode Island but a lot are visiting family and friends, two different markets with some overlap

Will it work? the jury is still out but the signs from Dublin at least are positive

Buster the Bear

22nd Feb 2018, 19:33

https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/02/21/norwegian-air-shuttle-takes-delivery-of-its-final-boeing-737-800/

Skipness One Echo

23rd Feb 2018, 22:16

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Norwegian-Air-Norway

Anyone know why they have yet another subsidiary in Norwegian Air Norway? Surely a tautology too far?

7Three7Specialist

25th Feb 2018, 16:41

This is Norwegian's last ever B737-800. From now on it's only MAX8's. So it could well be re-reg soon enough.

EIFFS

7th Mar 2018, 15:55

Norwegian set to launch flights to Canada by July so no doubt on sale shortly

GLAEDI

7th Mar 2018, 16:02

daz211

7th Mar 2018, 17:21

That’s a tougher market than the US with 3 low cost airlines already operating in AC Rouge, WestJet & Air Transat. They also fly to the principle airports in Pearson, Montreal, Halifax & Calgary. Norwegian do like burning money though.

There is also primera from STN to YYZ.

But think Norwegian could do well at Burlington Moncton and Hamilton if they want to use secondary airports.

EIFFS

7th Mar 2018, 20:32

I would think that if it’s from LGW it will be the Dreamliner so that will Vancouver & Calgary, the max will likely do Dublin/BFS to Hamilton, really no point in using max from LGW to eastern seaboard it just too tight on fuel westbound.

No direct from LGW to Vancouver and a 789 to Calgary -V- a Westjet 767 ? plus European feed

I think there could be a market to SWF from LGW with preclearance at SNN and direct on the return.

Vokes55

7th Mar 2018, 22:54

No direct from LGW to Vancouver

Eh? Transat have operated this route for years, as do Westjet. Last year there was even a third operator on the route in Rouge, but alas this has been discontinued.

Skipness One Echo

8th Mar 2018, 11:22

I think there could be a market to SWF from LGW with preclearance at SNN and direct on the return.
But think Norwegian could do well at Burlington Moncton and Hamilton if they want to use secondary airports.
This is low volume, low fares long haul. At the first sign of economic turbulence, do you want your focus here?

toledoashley

9th Mar 2018, 10:26

My guess with the Canadian entry would be from Dublin or Belfast using a MAX. I don't think they have enough 787's (unless they drop something somewhere else to cover), especially as they have said they are going to add extra 787's to CDG.

My guess would be Dublin to Hamilton on a MAX.

EIFFS

9th Mar 2018, 15:50

There are more 789,s than required for current on sale program, I think you’ll see Canada out of LGW

kgoodall

9th Mar 2018, 15:51

Looks like the CTA have granted them the exception to sell tickets before Transport Canada approval. TC have also advised them that they should have their approvals in time for their first flights around the end of July.

compton3bravo

21st Mar 2018, 15:58

Norwegian are calling for more cash from its shareholders and hope to sell five A320neos and any superfluous aircraft to help it through 'challenging times' with regards fuel and currency prices. We await further comments from a certain well known Irishman!

canberra97

21st Mar 2018, 17:58

That certain Irish man will only comment on this once the failure of Norwegian is official, then he can rightly say ''I told you so dint I''.

snn20

3rd Apr 2018, 21:34

ORK-PVD suspended for the winter with talks of other routes being suspended too.

inOban

3rd Apr 2018, 22:09

They haven't announced any W18 TA flights from EDI, although the schedule to Oslo, which uses the TA a/c, assumes there will be.

snn20

3rd Apr 2018, 22:34

https://ibb.co/kpsS7H statement here

inOban

3rd Apr 2018, 22:46

Thanks for that. Certainly the fares on both EDI routes are now quite high in peak season, but that season seems quite short.

840

12th Apr 2018, 09:43

Bloomberg are reporting that IAG are considering a bid for Norwegian.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-12/british-airways-owner-considers-bid-for-norwegian-air

SWBKCB

12th Apr 2018, 10:15

Flight also reporting:

British Airways and Iberia parent IAG is considering a possible takeover of Scandinavian budget carrier Norwegian, after taking a preliminary minority share in the airline.

IAG has disclosed that it has acquired a 4.61% shareholding in Norwegian.

IAG says its shareholding will enable it to "establish a position" from which it could commence discussions with Norwegian, and that these could include the "possibility of a full offer" for the budget airline.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/iag-floats-possible-norwegian-takeover-447639/

BehindBlueEyes

12th Apr 2018, 10:18

British Airways owner considers Norwegian bid - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43739254)

The annoying thing is; I was seriously going to have a punt on some Norwegian shares a couple of weeks ago. Just never got around to doing it! :ugh:

Plane.Silly

12th Apr 2018, 10:35

Would certainly be an interesting tie-up. Hypothetically speaking, if Norwegian did join IAG, would there be any need for LEVEL any more? anything they can do, Norwegian can probably do better.

Skipness One Echo

12th Apr 2018, 11:54

If Norwegian did join IAG, it would be folded into other existing AOCs.
Level is an Iberia front company with former IB A332s flown with IB flight deck crew.
DI's LGW operation would easily fold into BA with certain synergies on both sides.
D8 would fold into BA or VY as appropriate.
Non UK DY long haul would be a fit for an expanded Level or wound up.

I wouldn't see the brand surviving.

PDXCWL45

12th Apr 2018, 12:00

If Norwegian did join IAG, it would be folded into other existing AOCs.
Level is an Iberia front company with former IB A332s flown with IB flight deck crew.
DU's LGW operation would easily fold into BA with certain synergies on both sides.
D8 would fold into BA or VY as appropriate.
Non UK DY long haul would be a fit for an expanded Level or wound up.

I wouldn't see the brand surviving.
They could just keep Norwegian for the Scandinavian ops.