Thomas Cook-2

[Jerry123]

With Thomas Cook Airlines Belgium shutting down in November and 2 of the aircraft going to Brussels Airlines does anyone know what Thomas Cook will do the other 3 A320s? I was wondering if they would use them at the likes of Cardiff and Newcastle instead of the seasonal damp leased A320s?

[MKY661]

I assume they'll be going back to Condor.

[Jerry123]

I thought Condor were all Boeing?

[MKY661]

They have A320's and A321's too, All except one of the A321's will transfer to TCX next year though according to Jethro.

[Jerry123]

Hopefully then the A320s will as well!
Thanks for the reply.

[ratchetring]

Your arithmetic might impress if it correctly presumed that the dinosaur union has a monopoly of the workforce.

It does not.

The old days of the NUM et al are long gone. Those dinosaurs died out. They self-destructed, actually.

Actually they didn't "self destruct " They were wiped out as a result of something quite out of their control

[FRatSTN]

Thomas Cook have made several changes to their Antalya flying schedule for Summer 2018, with a number of W-patterns between UK airports, as follows:

Birmingham (Wednesdays, W-pattern from Bristol)
Cardiff (Fridays, W-pattern from Bristol)
East Midlands (Mondays, W-pattern from Manchester)
Edinburgh (Saturdays, W-pattern from Stansted)
Leeds/Bradford (Thursdays, W-pattern from Newcastle)

Edinburgh and Leeds/Bradford are therefore new airports for Thomas Cook

[LiamNCL]

Do we know whats based where next year as in where the leased AC will be ?

[inOban]

Some years ago they served PMI from EDI in a W-pattern. They also offer a couple of destinations using Easyjet.

[FQTLSteve]

Does anyone know what the distribution of a/c will be by base for S18? I've tried to Google but I can't get any meaningful result?

[LiamNCL]

There was talk on here about BFS EMA and STN being operated by leased aircraft but site still showing same seat maps as this summer im guessing the S18 seat layouts arent finalised on the website ?

[milhouse999]

They were advertising an extra NCL-CFU on a Thursday evening for 2018, this appears to have disappeared from their website now, you can't book it.

They're also offering ECONOMY PLUS on their A321s next year - the seating arrangement seems to be the same as existing all-econmy (38 rows) but it's only the first two rows of the AC that will have it.

Anyone shed any light on this?

Seating:
https://ibb.co/mGREEQ

[LiamNCL]

Economy plus similar to the Condor A321 that Thomas Cook are recieving this winter.

[milhouse999]

Is there extra legroom?

I note Premium is the first two rows - but when you try and book standard economy, rows 1-6 are blocked out and can't be reserved. Are they waiting for uptake and then possibly increasing premium to row 6 if it proves popular?

The only differnece I can see is you get an extra 5kg hold baggage and drinks. It works out an extra £200 for 2 of us in June, its cheaper to book standard economy, add on all the extras (meal, seats etc) as I don't think you'll get anymore leg.

[nclops]

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/287587/thomas-cook-airlines-to-introduce-economy-plus

[milhouse999]

Thanks nclops :ok:

[goldeneye]

Thomas Cook is to send A321's to Air Transat over the winter for the next 7 years, an A330 will come from Air Transat to Thomas Cook over the Winter.


Source (http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/Transat-A-T-Inc-continues-its-fleet-reconfiguration-signing-an-agreement-with-Thomas-Cook-1002913577)

[Buster the Bear]

More here.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/business-news/air-transat-thomas-cook-sign-seven-year-seasonal-aircraft-sharing-deal/

[VickersVicount]

So yet another non standard config and service offering
So we have
Standard TCX config
TCX Scandinavia variation
Air Tanker variation
and now
Air Transat ?

[azz767]

All uk Reg 757's are going to condor and all condor 321's are coming to the uk

[LiamNCL]

Even D-AIAA ?

[MKY661]

D-AIAA is staying with Condor according to Jethro.

[goldeneye]

Air Transat have an A330 with Condor to operate from Dusseldorf this winter, so may well be heading there way opposed to UK as its a Thomas Cook Group deal.

[LBIA]

Just been confirmed that Thomas Cook are opening a new base at Leeds/Bradford Airport replacing some of the capacity loss after Monarch going bust

[Mooncrest]

Good news. Every cloud and so on...

[macdo]

Depends on who owns the airframe and who is flying it!

[FRatSTN]

Looks like Leeds/Bradford and Luton will both become new bases for Summer 2018 following Monarch's demise.

[LiamNCL]

2x New bases are we to see some new incomming A/C over the winter ?

[azz767]

http://mobile.plane-mad.com/forums/manchester/man6913-news-from-august-2016.html?view=all


Please see post 95 of this thread, TCX U.K. to become and all airbus fleet

[FFMAN]

Thomas Cook Long Haul
Whilst I'm pleased to see TC jumping into long haul from Manchester, some of their choices make me wonder if they know their market. I'm also worried about the lack of consistency in product offer (Air Tanker, Air Transat to follow).
To be clear, I've used them several times to the Caribbean, to New York and to Boston and the preference is always to fly in the Premium cabin where it is offered....and it's very good to be fair. Trouble is, it seems to be a bit of a lottery as to whether there is one or not - even on the same route (!)

Mrs FFMAN and myself were mulling a New York trip last night and although the prices and schedule were good, when Mrs FFMAN saw the words 'operated by Air Tanker' she said 'it sounds like a freighter - I'm not going on that'. When there was no Premium seating either well, that was that. Virgin got the business. This is even though we both know from experience that TC Premium Economy is better than Virgin Premium Economy.
If it doesn't exist though, you can't buy it :sad:

On their choice of route / aircraft....
Miami - as a leisure offering is more of a Winter route yet they ran it as a Summer only
Antigua - this is a Premium destination, but they don't offer a Premium cabin and run it as triangular route meaning grief on the return. I know some regulars who prefer the drive to Gatwick. They could also run that route into early May as well as St Lucia.
Seattle - a business heavy route surely - but again flying it without a Premium offering...all that way in economy? Not if you're on business.

[zfw]

Agree with FfMan we have just been to Boston on the troop carrier VYGM, it is definitely not set up for long haul, the seats are uncomfortable non existent headrest and 1980s retro tv screen that comes down in the centre seats, which is great for banging your head on. These a/c are 4-5hours max charter machines.The Tcx premium offering is fantastic and as cheap as Vs economy so well worth the upgrade. With oyvkf coming into the fold next year and the possible Air Transat A330 that only looks like 1 Airtanker ( it is on the bookings for next summer) the other appears to be off to Jet2 as they look odds on for 2 next season as they love them on short haul. Looking at the prelim allocation for next summer we seem to be showing 8 A330 deps from Manchester on Thu.

[Plane.Silly]

Thomas Cook have lost their #2 spot in the largest ATOL providers. Jet2's growth particularly with the addition of BHX/STN has now launched them well ahead.

Rank Licence Holder ATOLNumber Passengers Licensed
1 TUI UK Ltd 2524 5386845
2 Jet2holidays Ltd 9618 2936420
3 Thomas Cook ' Ltd 1179 2389227
4 Expedia, Inc 5788 1416227
5 On The Beach Ltd 10017 1205480

[goldeneye]

This is related to the tour operations business and not the airline directly. Both Thomas Cook & Jet2 carry many more passengers than is bonded under the ATOL scheme.

[Plane.Silly]

@goldeneye

I do appreciate that, just making a point about how Jet2 has grown as an airline. If Thomas Cook were priding themselves on their position at #2, it may make them think about their own plans for growth. TC did use Jet2's seats for their own package when they were starting out, but since TC stopped using them & stopped selling them in store, Jet2 have continued to grow. Maybe their new based a/c at LBA is a warning shot at them?

[daz211]

Jet2 have exceeded their own expectations at STN and there is a lot of talk about major expansion of the base in summer 2019 with double the fleet of summer 2017.

TCX and TUI are definitely feeling the arrival of jet2 at STN
I would have thought EZY would have had some fight in them regarding jet2 at STN but as usual they are staying stagnant the same as TCX and TUI.

[goldeneye]

@Plane.Silly

I don't think they are worried about being the market leader anymore, that is what caused some of there financial issues a few years ago. They are concentrating on delivering a good product rather than it being capacity driven.

Jet2 have grown dramatically over the past few year, it will be interesting to see where they go in the next few years.

[lee757]

@zwf - agreed everytime i've looked at booking premium its never been available because it was on air tanker. They need to be consistent on that. There new cabins look great but if its a lottery i'd book VS too.

Presumably if LH at MAN continues to do well they'll be needing to replace the fleet at some point - aren't a few of them knocking on?

@plane - Will be interesting to see what LS does money wise over next few years. It's never had 30+ brand new planes to pay for before and could park the old ones in winter.

[Habana2118]

Agreed Thomas Cook group airlines inc Condor and Scandinavia really need to look at fleet replacement, those Condor 757’s and 767’s aren’t exactly fuel efficient to be able to take on the competion and or operate with low Ish cost base moving forward, Norwegian and Eurowings plus possibly LEVEL in the future could be a serious threat to long haul operations

[irishlad06]

Jet2 have exceeded their own expectations at STN and there is a lot of talk about major expansion of the base in summer 2019 with double the fleet of summer 2017.

TCX and TUI are definitely feeling the arrival of jet2 at STN
I would have thought EZY would have had some fight in them regarding jet2 at STN but as usual they are staying stagnant the same as TCX and TUI.


They will have 10 based aircraft in summer 2018 and will also be self handling their whole operation to give them complete 100% control.

[chaps1954]

As we know the B757 are leaving the UK and being replaced with fairly new A321s
but A330 are a differnt kettle of fish as 2nd hand machines are like gold dust.

[horsebox]

A couple of the 75's are now staying on the uk reg for next season I believe.

They need investment in the long haul fleet to make the product consistent.

I guess the problems back in 2011 might make it difficult to borrow the cash to make that happen.

[LiamNCL]

OO-TCW will transfer to TCX as G-TCAE before next summer

[Jerry123]

Any idea where it will be based?

[LiamNCL]

No idea at the moment

[Travel Agent]

Could the Air Berlin A330's be of use to increase Thomas Cook long haul or are they going to Lufthansa?

[LAX_LHR]

I think 7 AB A330 are destined for Malaysian. I've then heard Titan acquired 1 or 2 of them and then the rest are going to Eurowings as far as I know.

In terms of MT A330, I've been told that OY-VFK is to become G-TCXD and G-VYGM isn't coming back next summer.

[irishlad06]

G-VYGM is apparently off to Jet2 along with the current G-VYGL

[goldeneye]

What is happening with G-VYGK as the three year lease is up in Jan ?

[ATNotts]

Preisdruck am Himmel: Neue Airline für Mallorca | tagesschau.de (http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/thomas-cook-mallorca-101.html)

In German, but probably fairly easy to get translated (badly) using Google Translate.

Apparently being set up to begin services from Spring 2018, using minimum 3 aircraft sourced from within the Thomas Cook group.

Wonder if they will be used, perhaps in part, to fill any capacity shortfalls following the demise of Monarch, and whatever disappears when, eventually, Air Berlin closes down.

[Beanjet]

English version of above. Plus agreement with Air Transat (travelmole, 2017)

Thomas Cook Group to launch new airline

Thomas Cook is launching a new airline based in Majorca, which will start flying early next year.

Thomas Cook Airlines Balearics will provide seasonal flying from Palma, the Group's most popular destination, and reduce its dependency on third-parties.

The move follows the closure of Thomas Cook Belgium, which will cease operations on October 27. Its aircraft will transfer to Palma.

Thomas Cook has applied for a new Airline Operator Certificate in Majorca, and the Group said the new airline will provide flights to support its other airlines in the UK, Scandinavia and Germany, according to seasonal demand.

It said it would provide the Group with 'greater operational flexibility at a competitive cost', while also allowing it to maintain closer control over the quality and customer experience than its current third-party lease arrangements.

The new airline will start with at least three Airbus A320 aircraft which previously operated for Thomas Cook Airlines Belgium.

These aircraft will initially take over short and medium-haul flights for the Thomas Cook's German airline Condor to replace third-party aircraft leases.

Christoph Debus, chief airline officer Thomas Cook Group, said: "The new airline and base will provide us with the right platform to better manage the seasonal demand in our business, giving us more control at lower cost as we continue to expand the choice of destinations we offer our customers.

"With more than one million Thomas Cook customers flying into Palma every year, we have~a strong existing infrastructure on which to build."

The announcement follows the recent agreement with Canadian Airline Air Transat for the exchange of aircraft on a seasonal basis to better balance the seasonal demand for short and medium-haul aircraft in the European and Canadian leisure airline markets.

[Plane.Silly]

Thinks it's a good idea, using PMI when it's a bit quieter.

Personal preference but if i were heading back home, wouldn't fancy the slot 1 departures at 6-7am. Imagine having to leave your hotel by 3am (or even 2am if your over Alcudia way) :\

[Vokes55]

Many of the German flights leave Palma around then anyway. At airports which aren't noise sensitive, holiday flights regularly leave German airports at 3-4am for the first wave during the Summer.

Horses for courses, the Germans don't tend to like overnight charter flights, which are quite common for UK airlines.

[daz211]

Departing Germany at 3 or 4 am I would rather pay double the price to arrive at a convenient time most hotels have a check in time of 1400 so arriving at PMI 0600 - 0700 what do the Germans do with themselves?

But more on topic I would not choose any return flight which ment I had to leave my hotel before 1000 might just be me but I like to get up at a normal time grab a paper from the news agent have a nice fry up then leisurely get to the airport

I have noticed jet2 have also set up a base at PMI with early departures to the UK forming a mid morning departure back to PMI.

[canberra97]

I always get the earliest flight in the morning to my destination arriving at the hotel early and leaving my bags at the hotel, go off to explore the local area, go for a coffee and invariably return to the hotel to check in which is always far earlier than the advertised 2 pm check in, in all my travels it has only occurred twice that I have had to wait till 2 pm to be able to check in at the hotel.

I personally have no problem with an evening flight back to the UK, get up in the morning have breakfast, pack bags, shower, get dressed, check out at either 11 or 12, maybe get an extension on the hotel room for a late check out, put bags in hotels left baggage room with my clothes for my return trip easy to locate, enjoy the rest of the day until returning to my hotel later in the day or evening to freshen up and change clothing, then a Taxi to the airport for my return flight home.

As I tend to go on several 2 or 3 night breaks a year I maximise my stay by getting the first available flight out to my destination and the last possible flight back home, why waste your last day by getting an early flight when you can get a later flight, I do this whenever possible including the many evening flights with British Airways from JFK to LHR I always get the latest flight home so I can at least go out for dinner before my flight home maximising my time at my destination.

My elderly parents especially my father like to get a midday or at least an early flight home so in my opinion I think this is more of an age thing.

[Vokes55]

The benefit of having the aircraft based in PMI and operating reverse rotations would be that the airport is quieter during these periods - however, with easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian and Eurowings already doing the same thing now, the benefit has been already eroded quite significantly. With the demise of Air Berlin, the PMI 'peak' periods are already quieter than they were.

I tend to agree with you Canberra, I like to make the most of my time in a destination if I'm only there for a few days. However, if it's a week in the sun, for me the holiday ends as soon as you lose access to a shower. So I'd rather check out and go home.

If you're not a fan of 3-4am departures, don't move any further East. In Eastern Europe and Russia, holiday flights operate around the clock. 1-2am departures to Egypt and Turkey are the norm.

[yeo valley]

Departing Germany at 3 or 4 am I would rather pay double the price to arrive at a convenient time most hotels have a check in time of 1400 so arriving at PMI 0600 - 0700 what do the Germans do with themselves?

But more on topic I would not choose any return flight which ment I had to leave my hotel before 1000 might just be me but I like to get up at a normal time grab a paper from the news agent have a nice fry up then leisurely get to the airport

I have noticed jet2 have also set up a base at PMI with early departures to the UK forming a mid morning departure back to PMI.

In answer to above quote.They get all poolside chairs sorted and also start hanging towels on them lol.

[chaps1954]

Yes Jet2/Air Europa just arrived at MAN from PMI at 09.15 so an early start.

[Rutan16]

Departing Germany at 3 or 4 am I would rather pay double the price to arrive at a convenient time most hotels have a check in time of 1400 so arriving at PMI 0600 - 0700 what do the Germans do with themselves?

But more on topic I would not choose any return flight which ment I had to leave my hotel before 1000 might just be me but I like to get up at a normal time grab a paper from the news agent have a nice fry up then leisurely get to the airport

I have noticed jet2 have also set up a base at PMI with early departures to the UK forming a mid morning departure back to PMI.

Such a snowflake you are . Times past many much most Balearics flights departed the UK late evening and particularly Ibiza. Back in the eighties I arrived their frequently at 3am !
Collected by coach delivered directly to hotel door by tour rep. Signed collected key went to bed and woke at 5 in the afternoon quick shower and onto the liquid beverage
Organised tours had their benefit with Coach transfers and room available on arrival
Btw our German cousins still take advantage of inclusive tour type business models so they get the room on arrival almost any time

[infobod]

Does anyone know what Cook's fleet is for this winter and summer 18?

[brianj]

Try Jethro’s fleet listings!

[gilesdavies]

From what I've read all five of the 757-300's are being transferred to German sister airline Condor and in return will be swapped for six or seven A321's that will be joining Thomas Cook UK.

The Thomas Cook fleet seems to be very complicated, as there is a lot of swapping around of aircraft with the sister German, Scandanavian and Belgian fleets. With these flying odd flights to and from the UK. For example Thomas Cook Belgium operated the Palma-Luton-Palma flight this summer.

They also seem to wet lease a number of other aircraft in the summer months from Avion Express and SmartLynx, which are usually A320's and I assume this will continue next Summer...

You also have Air Tanker continuing to operate two A330's for Thomas Cook next year.

For example they are opening a new Luton base next year, and the routes are showing to be operated by an A320 on the seat map when booking a flight... So I assume this will be a leased bird, which makes sense when opening a new base, as it minimises the risk with not having to employ new Thomas Cook staff. as these will be supplied by the leasing company and will be flown by a smaller aircraft than the A321, in case the base doesn't work out or has lessor demand than that is required of an A321.

To add to the complications, they are have also entered a deal with Air Transat to share aircraft during each airlines low season. So Thomas Cook will send A321's to Canada in the winter, when Canadian's want to escape to Florida, Mexico and the Caribbean. I assume Thomas Cook will receive a few of Air Transat's metal in the summer month's, maybe an A330 or two, but I thought Air Transat's long haul fleet were busy flyng to and from Europe in the Summer?

Also the A330's of Air Transat are a rather cramped nine abreast and will be interesting to see if they get modified to match the UK fleet with eight abreast seating or remain as they are.

The problem Thomas Cook have with their long haul fleet is, they have an inconsistent hard product, as you have their own fleet with Premium Economy and offer Seat-Back TV's throughout. The Air Tanker fleet don't offer either and if the Air Transat A330's enter the fleet for the summers and are not modified, this makes the hard product even more difficult to match customers expectations.

Air Transat's short haul fleet is made up of 737-800's so unsure if we will see any of these flying for Thomas Cook in the Summer months, and these are due to be replaced with A321LR's in 2019, which will be more compatiable with the UK airlines own A321's.

[LiamNCL]

One 757 G-JMOG I think returns in March for Summer which means 4 757 swapped for 6 A321.

[FFMAN]

The problem Thomas Cook have with their long haul fleet is, they have an inconsistent hard product, as you have their own fleet with Premium Economy and offer Seat-Back TV's throughout. The Air Tanker fleet don't offer either and if the Air Transat A330's enter the fleet for the summers and are not modified, this makes the hard product even more difficult to match customers expectations.

TCX have invested a considerable amount of effort into building a long-haul product and I am happy to choose them over say AA or UA. However that would only apply to their own fleet - NOT the Air Tanker birds which, having once experienced, I would avoid - it's a bit of a 1990s style experience and that just does not cut it anymore.

I'm a savvy flyer though and know what to go for and what to avoid - most aren't. So many people will get the TCX long-haul experience through Air Tanker, being totally underwhelmed and telling all and sundry that the TCX brand is 'awful' (or other phrases).

Additionally some of the routes they fly the Tankers on might be considered Premium routes like Antigua and St Lucia but the option to buy said Premium seats (ie to give TCX more money) does not exist.

TCX will have to sort this inconsistency pronto otherwise their careful brand and product building will be undermined.

[A330ETOPS]

AA/AB are the only 757’s staying. They will be based in Gatwick for S18

[LiamNCL]

According to Jethros only G-JMOG returns permantly in March. JMAA & JMAB become D-ABOP & ABOR

[Vokes55]

Fairly certain what 'Jethros' means is that JMOG returns permanently to Condor in March '18.

[LiamNCL]

Dlvd Manchester 07 Apr 16
Op fr Condor 03 Nov 17 -
To rtn permanently Mar 18

Its operaring for Condor anyway now so it would state its returned to Condor permanently now ? I take that as it returns to TCX permanently on March 2018 but we wait and see.

[A330ETOPS]

It’s operating for Condor on the G register at the moment with UK crews and returns permanently to a Condor next year. It is still on the UK AOC. Only AA and AB will remain with TCUK for next summer

[jethro15]

Fairly certain what 'Jethros' means is that JMOG returns permanently to Condor in March '18.

That's correct.

[Plane.Silly]

Forgive me for sounding dumb, but why do TCX/Condor switch planes by season? Didn't think there was a massive difference between the 757/767 and A321?

[chaps1954]

They all do different jobs B767 long haul 753 high density European and A321 not as big
and aircraft of choice for most European flights now

[CabinCrewe]

Sad to see end of 763 ops, from the good old Airtours days. Definitely a bit long in the tooth. I recall one of the AIH 763s getting buckled on a heavy landing.
Wonder what the two at MAN have in store....

[LiamNCL]

Four ex Monarch A321's will be joining the fleet this winter.

[MKY661]

Confirmed by Jethro that the 4 Ex. Monarch A321's are indeed the Sharklet ones. Another A320 also to join next summer as well.

[goldeneye]

Looks like the Air Tanker lease has been extended as the one on long term lease is still operating for MT. Was due to end on the 15th Jan.

[BHXEDGG]

Does anyone know when the Ex ZB 321's are expected to be put into commercial service? One still sat at BHX feeling sorry for its self.

[chaps1954]

I heard that they will go into service sometime this month
Ian

[macdo]

Anyone know why the MT2848 returned to MAN?
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/thomas-cook-manchester-airport-flight-14503207

[rob39]

Monarch G-OZBG - G-OZBH A321 sat at PIK

[Mr @ Spotty M]

What have Monarch G-OZBG - G-OZBH A321 sat at PIK got to do with TCX? :ugh:

[rob39]

Will they be joining the TCX Fleet????????

[22/04]

Nope - newer sharkleted ones- ZBAD,ZBAE,ZBAM ZBAO

[LiamNCL]

ex Aeroflot A321 VP-BUM joining fleet , its in TCX Livery now and should be G- Registered soon.

[Luke1991]

I thought that frame was going to Condor to become D-ATCF?

[LiamNCL]

Jethros has it listed at the moment as G-

D-ATCD has been painted in Sentido livery.

[scousechris]

ex Aeroflot A321 VP-BUM joining fleet , its in TCX Livery now and should be G- Registered soon.

Definetly not on G register. It will be registered as D-ATCF

[jfy1999]

Thomas Cook Airlines UK in October 2018 and January 2019 plans to operate charter service to Sri Lanka, with 1 flight each from London Gatwick and Manchester planned, on board Airbus A330-200 aircraft.

Flight dates and times here (https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278084/thomas-cook-uk-adds-sri-lanka-charters-in-w18/)

[MKY661]

Definetly not on G register. It will be registered as D-ATCF

I had a feeling it wasn't going to Condor as Thomas Cook titles were applied rather than Condor ones. Anyway it's going to Avion Express and will be leased to the TCX Group for the summer season.

[scousechris]

I had a feeling it wasn't going to Condor as Thomas Cook titles were applied rather than Condor ones. Anyway it's going to Avion Express and will be leased to the TCX Group for the summer season.

It will be registered LY-VEC for Avion and is on a long term lease to TCUK. Planned to be based at MAN for S18 like VEG & VEH last summer, with LY-VED planned to join also.

[azz767]

I have a few of questions regarding the A330 fleet if anyone’s able to help.

Firstly a bit of a bug bear of mine but does anyone know if CHTZ is planned to be painted into the new livery as its still in the hybrid AFAIK?

Secondly VYGK, in all economy layout, how do they determine where to send this a/c. I regularly see it on MAN-JFK but would have thought this would need the premium seats, also is there any plans to add premium to it?

VYGM coming in for the summer, will this be all economy as well?

Finally they are due a 330-300 from Scandinavia. This is in all economy currently and regularly does European holiday flights. Is this the same for when it comes here or will it go 2 class for long haul ops?

[scousechris]

I have a few of questions regarding the A330 fleet if anyone’s able to help.

Firstly a bit of a bug bear of mine but does anyone know if CHTZ is planned to be painted into the new livery as its still in the hybrid AFAIK?

Secondly VYGK, in all economy layout, how do they determine where to send this a/c. I regularly see it on MAN-JFK but would have thought this would need the premium seats, also is there any plans to add premium to it?

VYGM coming in for the summer, will this be all economy as well?

Finally they are due a 330-300 from Scandinavia. This is in all economy currently and regularly does European holiday flights. Is this the same for when it comes here or will it go 2 class for long haul ops?

TZ- it’s not due in for repaint for a while yet, it was one of the last to be done into paint scheme. Showing as due 2021

GK- w17/18 it was mainly on the JFK route in full economy. S18 is is operating some JFK & MCO flights and is sold as operated by Air Tanker on these selected flights. The core A330 fleet will operate alongside GK offering Premium for those at want it. Possibility that premium may be added in future, but nothing concrete ATM.

GM- All economy as per S17 and will be operating SEA,BOS and some JFK. Possibility it will receive TCUK interior, but doubting it will be for S18.

A330-300 VKG is back for S18 at MAN early May then off to GLA and STN peak summer. Full economy as previous years at 380 seats, which is a slight reduction on the Scandinavian confit during winter.

[TCX69]

On a side note, A321 G–TCDV was ferried MAN–EMA yesterday for repaint into the new (or should I say current) livery. That still leaves G–DHJH, G–NIKO, G–TCDA/CDB aswell as G–CHTZ to be repainted.

MT will also be leasing a HiFly A330–200 for S18, based at MAN.

[SJL26779]

Would be interested to know the routes which Hi-fly aircraft is operating. They are using so many non TCX aircraft this year, especially long haul without the promised on board product.

[FFMAN]

Had a look at MAN-SEA for an upcoming trip but decided against using TCX....US West Coast is too much journey in Economy after long days working. Not so bad if you've just been on holiday I suppose.

TCX really need to sort out the consistency of their long-haul product if they're looking for long term long-haul success. I was talking to one of their resident agents at JFK some weeks ago. She said even they aren't sure when Premium is available on the route and on which days....god help the rest of us. She also said that when it is available, it's 'totally sold-out'. I don't understand why TCX can't be more commercially astute. There appears to be a queue of people (with me in it) who are happy to give them more money for more comfort.
My own anecdotal view of both JFK and BOS both of which I've used on a number of occasions is that there are plenty of people using the services for non-vacation reasons, including one really senior exec I was sat next to in PE at the end of last year.
For MAN-SEA...all economy...can't 'SEA' that one lasting unfortunatley

[scousechris]

On a side note, A321 G–TCDV was ferried MAN–EMA yesterday for repaint into the new (or should I say current) livery. That still leaves G–DHJH, G–NIKO, G–TCDA/CDB aswell as G–CHTZ to be repainted.

MT will also be leasing a HiFly A330–200 for S18, based at MAN.

All of the ‘blue’ besides DB & TZ will be painted by end of May, slots are booked in EM@ over the coming weeks.

The Hifly A330 is reserve aircraft and planned to operate some shorthaul routes. Obviously if it needs to ops L/H then can be activated and utilised quickly. Apart from GM all other L/H aircraft have TCX interiors, some with slightly different config, eg GK all economy. With the exclusion of SEA all other L/H routes have premium available, core fleet operates JFK/MCO on specific days

[SJL26779]

If the Hi-Fly aircraft is a reserve A/C for short haul then I wonder why the TCX airlines website shows this:

HiFly product information for Summer 18 coming soon

Long-haul summer 2018

[scousechris]

If the Hi-Fly aircraft is a reserve A/C for short haul then I wonder why the TCX airlines website shows this:

HiFly product information for Summer 18 coming soon

Long-haul summer 2018

The Hifly information is actually under the short mid haul catagory not long haul. I admit the spacing on website isnt the best, but final briefing we had last week was short haul only. The long haul flying programme has sufficient aircraft to cover for S18

[FFMAN]

With the exclusion of SEA all other L/H routes have premium available,

So one of the longer routes with a likely higher mix of business traffic goes all economy? :eek: Really?
Also your comment above is phrased very cleverly...JFK Premium is 'available' but not all the time. As per my post above not even the JFK staff are certain which days the Premium ones appear - she thought 'around 3 p/w'.
If you want to go out PE you're not going to be happy being forced to return in economy....you'll look for another airline instead.

ANU I understand is all economy flight despite it being a 'premium island'

It's the inconsistency and the apparent lack of commercial astuteness at TCX that worries me. Needs sorting.

[azz767]

Completely agree, it can’t be that hard to source A330’s that the lessors will put in your own config? I assume it’s air tanker that want them in all economy? If not it’s as you say not the cleverest on tcx’s part. What baffles me more is how well received PE has been and how popular the USA flights appear to be. Surely that would tell them they need premium as standard across the fleet?

[chaps1954]

I think you will find it is very difficult to get an A330 let alone to your particular layout

[SamYeager]

Surely that would tell them they need premium as standard across the fleet?


Better to have premium consistently on those routes that are higher yielding rather than having it across all routes surely?

[FFMAN]

Better to have premium consistently on those routes that are higher yielding rather than having it across all routes surely?

The point being that if TCX want to build a brand and a long term long-haul product, they are going to have to do much better than what they are currently doing.
The key is consistency.
All successful airlines offer a consistent product:
At one end of the scale the likes of Singapore etc deliver a reasonably consistent product
At the other end of the scale, Ryanair and Easyjet also deliver a consistent product and I admire them for that. I know exactly what I'll be getting for my money.
With TCX - it's pure guesswork.

The thing is, if you do get TCX PE across the Atlantic it's actually a very good product. Why they don't want to roll it out consistently across the long haul network is beyond me:confused:
They have the benefit of new entry players right now but I'm wondering how many people, having experienced the 'delights' of Air Tanker would come back for a second bite of the cherry.

If all of this does fall apart in the next few years, no doubt they will do the usual 'lack of premium demand' press release (ie it's all our fault).

I keep saying this on here because I've been flying business class out of MAN since 1992. It was true back then in the 1990s that there were lots of empty premium cabins but now on some flights it's actually unpredictable whether I'll get in if it's a short notice trip.

[EGAC is Better]

The key is consistency.
All successful airlines offer a consistent product:
At one end of the scale the likes of Singapore etc deliver a reasonably consistent product
At the other end of the scale, Ryanair and Easyjet also deliver a consistent product and I admire them for that. I know exactly what I'll be getting for my money.
With TCX - it's pure guesswork.


Whilst I agree consistency is important, a lot of successful airlines do not offer this in terms of seating.

The difference between an old RYR B737 and a new one with the Sky interior and slim seats is night and day. Same with easyJet between A319 with old seats and A320 with Recaro’s. I’ve flown EZY and RYR both in the last 36hrs in old interiors. Give me the new interiors and seats everytime please.

RYR is guesswork because you dont know in advance what will turn up in x weeks to operate you flight. EZY is a bit more straightforward to work out what you’ll get

Singapore have multiple different First, Business and Economy seats in operation. Both across long haul and regional products.

It would be desireable for TCX to operate PE more consistently but like a lot of other airlines nowadays, reality is you need to be savy and check the seat map before you book.

[goldeneye]

If memeory serves me right, the Air Tanker aircraft need to be kept all economy in case they are suddenly needed by the MOD for deployment.

[LiamNCL]

Does anyone know the whereabouts of the Smartlynx A320 due to TCX in just over a weeks time ? Most of the YL- fleet are working for easyjet still.

[scousechris]

Does anyone know the whereabouts of the Smartlynx A320 due to TCX in just over a weeks time ? Most of the YL- fleet are working for easyjet still.

The leases are ending imminentaly before they transfer to TCX for S18. Below are dates for arrival into the bases and where they are based.

YLLCO- NCL 30.04
YLLCS- CWL 30.04
YLLCT- STN 27.05
YLLCL- BRS 30.04

[pamann]

So based on the above...

Is Stansted to be 1x MT A321 and 1x Smart Lynx A320 for short haul ops this summer?

[FRatSTN]

The A321 based at STN currently is YL-LCQ from Smartlynx, though it is in full Thomas Cook livery.

I assume then that both the A320 and A321 at STN will be Smartlynx.

[LiamNCL]

Thanks for the info

STN is 1x A321 & 1x A320 from Smartlynx for S18

[Habana2118]

Is EMA a similar set up with just wet lease aircraft ?

[OltonPete]

Is EMA a similar set up with just wet lease aircraft ?

EMA next month definitely showing as A321's and operated by Avion but winter is back to Thomas Cook at the moment per the booking engine?

I assume that this has resulted in the current EMA based flight-deck getting disrupted and moving to BHX or MAN for summer? Also BHX has seen only a handful of increased flights in summer 18 and the Avion is still based so not much extra work there.

So is EMA in winter crewed by BHX or MAN crew or does the base reopen?

Pete

[763 jock]

All pilots have been permanently removed from EMA. They have not said how it will be crewed next winter.

[HH6702]

Heard a rumour a few months ago about so bases closing in the winter.
Newcastle i heard but still shows as based aircraft and as far as i know crew have not been told anything

Winter flights to be chartered on Jet2 aircraft or seats sold onboard there aircraft

[LiamNCL]

Cant see that happening at Newcastle but there was mention on here about STN BFS EMA those were the 3 bases mentioned about becomming 3rd party.

[HH6702]

Hope so
However newcastle is only 1 aircraft in winter and doesn't fly every day

[Habana2118]

I thought MT are more likely to do the work in house but using aircraft from the larger bases using W patterns etc

[LiamNCL]

Hope so
However newcastle is only 1 aircraft in winter and doesn't fly every day

M-HRG
T-TFS
W-FUE
T-ACE
F-TFS
S-TFS
S-ACE

I think the Saturday Tenerife ends for about 6 weeks other than that it flys everyday.

[SWBKCB]

The TCX certainly flies as much in the winter as the other based units at NCL, probably more.

[sparkie320]

i am hearing whispers that a once a week flight from Norwich to Dalaman is to be operated from Norwich this summer
Does anyone know if this will be performed by the Stansted based aircraft or another
good to see them back at Norwich
Mark

[LiamNCL]

The TCX certainly flies as much in the winter as the other based units at NCL, probably more.

Thats what i was thinking , nothing more than rumours really.

i am hearing whispers that a once a week flight from Norwich to Dalaman is to be operated from Norwich this summer
Does anyone know if this will be performed by the Stansted based aircraft or another
good to see them back at Norwich
Mark

MT590 NWI-DLM Commences 23/05 until 03/10 and is indeed on the STN based A320 operated by Smartlynx

[Luke1991]

Does anyone know why MT4501 is currently headed to Abu Dhabi? I've noticed it before, is it a charter? As I can't find it as bookable on their website?

[LiamNCL]

Does anyone know why MT4501 is currently headed to Abu Dhabi? I've noticed it before, is it a charter? As I can't find it as bookable on their website? Maintenance

[LiamNCL]

G-TCDV has rolled out the paint shop carrying I <3 COOK'S CLUB livery , not sure about the coffee coloured base colour though :}

[Fly757X]

G-TCDV has rolled out the paint shop carrying I <3 COOK'S CLUB livery , not sure about the coffee coloured base colour though :}

Yuck! If only it stayed in the blue :(

[LiamNCL]

Yuck! If only it stayed in the blue :(

eye catching to say the least

[gojmc]

Does any one have any idea when Thomas Cook are likly to put flights from Manchester to Punt Carna on sale for next March? I contacted them via the online chat but they did not know.

Pity my outfit, J2, have not venured into the Caribbean market yet, it would save me a bob or two and would also make a change from going to the med and back every day.

J2 as in jet2? Are they offering staff travel now? Last I heard it was a strict no!

[azz767]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kenfielding/39901032695/in/photostream

for anyone whose lucky enough to have not yet seen the monstrosity that is the hybrid livery. Is it really that hard to have consistency at TCX or do they thrive on inconsistency first the on board product and now this (I know this doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference where as the product would but it still seems lazy to me).

[gojmc]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kenfielding/39901032695/in/photostream

for anyone whose lucky enough to have not yet seen the monstrosity that is the hybrid livery. Is it really that hard to have consistency at TCX or do they thrive on inconsistency first the on board product and now this (I know this doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference where as the product would but it still seems lazy to me).

myt all over again

[PDXCWL45]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kenfielding/39901032695/in/photostream

for anyone whose lucky enough to have not yet seen the monstrosity that is the hybrid livery. Is it really that hard to have consistency at TCX or do they thrive on inconsistency first the on board product and now this (I know this doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference where as the product would but it still seems lazy to me).
I actually think that is better than there current livery! Having a mix of liveries isn't bad naked your fleet unique!

[LiamNCL]

I kind of like the 4 Hybrids as a nod to Monarch , Personally think they need the old blue A321s painted though.

[jfy1999]

Personally think they need the old blue A321s painted though.
They are due at the EMA paint shop - see post #95

[azz767]

Privilege 757 operating MAN-TFS today, are TCX an A321 down?

[VentureGo]

YL-LCO operating NCL-MAH scheduled to have departed at 13:55 today is being delayed until 10:00am tomorrow morning (Newcastle airport departure board)

[LiamNCL]

It comes as no suprise its one of the leased aircraft hit the skids already what a start to summer.

[OltonPete]

Privilege 757 operating MAN-TFS today, are TCX an A321 down?

Very confusing picture with G-TCVB & VD in service at Manchester but VA is still sitting at BHX yet to enter service.

Thomas Cook have done fantastic at BHX to maintain their very busy schedule but it might have come at the expenses of other bases.

The Avion A320 at BHX disappeared a few days ago and is rumoured not to be coming back. LY-VEH Avion A321 has been shared at times with EMA awaiting LY-VEA to position in from Larnaca which was due for the second time Thursday and didn't show.

The booking engine for the Avion A320 flights for the next few days certainly show an A321 which indicates it was planned although the 320 reappears later in the month at the moment however as mentioned above the BHX base is now rumoured be all A321 for summer.

Pete

[inOban]

A trivia question for you all. TCX start a summer flight from Antalya into EDI today. When did they last use their own a/c into EDI? I seem to recall a flight from PMI some years ago, but since then their limited offering from EDI has used space on Easyjet flights.

[LiamNCL]

Another hybrid has turned up in the shape of LY-VED A321 wearing Aeroflot full livery with TCX titles and tail :}

[CabinCrewe]

TCX @ EDI
2009 W pattern 757 IBZ, peak summer
2011 W pattern 757 PMI peak summer

[inOban]

I knew someone would know!
Interestingly, EDI made quite a fuss over the arrival. I wonder whether they are courting TCX for more flights.

[figgi_gsm]

TCX @ EDI
2009 W pattern 757 IBZ, peak summer
2011 W pattern 757 PMI peak summer

they also ran a short PMI-EDI-PMI with an A321 back in July 2013.

[mudcity]

Reported elsewhere that TCX will now be leasing 3 Air Transat A330 this winter , not sure what the implications will be for Air Tanker leases ?

[LAX_LHR]

Are the TS A330 going to be subleased to Condor again though, like the one they had last winter? That was operated by MT on behalf of Condor.

[LAX_LHR]

Just looked at Jethros, Thomas Cook will have 11 A330 this summer! That’s quite a lot of capacity.

G-MDBD/CHTZ/OMYT/MLJL/TCXB/TCXC/VYGK/VYGM
OY-VKF/VKG
EI-FSP (ex CS-TMT)

only 8-9 do long haul overall, so means 2 for short haul.

[azz767]

What are the configs of the leased ones?

I know from a previous post VKG and VYGK are all economy. Do the VK 332’s have a premium cabin? I assume VYGM will be all economy like GK. I suppose for short haul it really makes no difference but the lack of consistency of product still worries me I have to say.

[SJL26779]

G-MDBD/CHTZ/OMYT/MLJL/TCXB/TCXC/OY-VKF - All have premium
VYGK/VYGM/OY-VKG all economy (VKG used for Short Haul too)
EI-FSP (ex CS-TMT) Used on Short Haul flights

[Plane.Silly]

What are the configs of the leased ones?
I know from a previous post VKG and VYGK are all economy. Do the VK 332’s have a premium cabin? I assume VYGM will be all economy like GK. I suppose for short haul it really makes no difference but the lack of consistency of product still worries me I have to say.

From Air Tanker's Website, both are all economy seating configs. GK has 320 and GM has 311.
Compared to Jet2's GL at 327, why wouldn't the configs be identical? i though both companies used the same Acro seats?

[SJL26779]

Thomas cook use theirs on Long Haul and advertise 31" legroom so don't have as many seats

[Off Stand]

GL has Jet2 seats installed, GM has standard ATrS seats.

[mwm991]

Has GLA-LAS been binned?

[GLAEDI]

Just looked on TCX website. Still selling tickets on MT2960 GLA-LAS.

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/tca/tcauk/en/flight/result

[mwm991]

I'm sure I seen it missing from the Summer 2019 timetable. Someone able to confirm that?

[Travel Agent]

I'm sure I seen it missing from the Summer 2019 timetable. Someone able to confirm that?

Its not on sale on the trade site so looks to of been axed for next year. Shame :(

[MKY661]

All of the ‘blue’ besides DB & TZ will be painted by end of May, slots are booked in EM@ over the coming weeks.

Has this been pushed back? None of them have been in yet

[germandude]

Hi everyone,

does anyone have some information about Thomas Cook Aviation (Air Berlin Aeronautics / Aviation) ?

They are at the moment looking for Direct Entry FO for DUS and LEJ.

But its quite hard to find some information about T&C, Rooster, Assessment and so on.

Thanks a lot already.

[Fly757X]

Has this been pushed back? None of them have been in yet

DV has (I'm assure you're aware) and KO came back from Zagreb recently. Not sure why but I would assume a C-Check but as far as i'm aware nothing as changed.

[LiamNCL]

anyone know why YL-LCO has ferried NCL-MAN and YL-LCL is due BRS-NCL later tonight ? Is TCX still aircraft short ?

[daz211]

Big delays at Stansted yesterday and today I heard Mahon cancelled and one of today’s flights delayed until tomorrow not sure of destinations so maybe that’s why your seeing a lot so shuffling about of aircraft.

[LiamNCL]

Big delays at Stansted yesterday and today I heard Mahon cancelled and one of today’s flights delayed until tomorrow not sure of destinations so maybe that’s why your seeing a lot so shuffling about of aircraft.

Cheers :ok:

[OltonPete]

Big delays at Stansted yesterday and today I heard Mahon cancelled and one of today’s flights delayed until tomorrow not sure of destinations so maybe that’s why your seeing a lot so shuffling about of aircraft.

Not much better at Manchester and BHX today.

I am sure on paper the numbers stack up when using third parties before the season starts but in reality how does a day like today (and yesterday and potentially tomorrow) eat into those figures?

BHX will run into the third day of disruption with Girona today operating out and into East Midlands (15 hors late) today but I suppose it is better than a complete lost day of your holiday which happened on BHX -AYT (Thursday) which went this afternoon and BHX - HER due out today but now 10am tomorrow (instead of lunchtime today).

LY-VEC is the Manchester aircraft tech and LY-NVZ at BHX.

Pete

[GKOC41]

Not much better at Manchester and BHX today.

I am sure on paper the numbers stack up when using third parties before the season starts but in reality how does a day like today (and yesterday and potentially tomorrow) eat into those figures?

BHX will run into the third day of disruption with Girona today operating out and into East Midlands (15 hors late) today but I suppose it is better than a complete lost day of your holiday which happened on BHX -AYT (Thursday) which went this afternoon and BHX - HER due out today but now 10am tomorrow (instead of lunchtime today).

LY-VEC is the Manchester aircraft tech and LY-NVZ at BHX.

Pete

These guys know their contracts rely on on time performance and TC also plan to have spare capacity to mitigate AOG's. They will also bring in any aircraft that are around for charter e.g. Titan.
The problem with a flight to the Greek Islands and back is the crew will unlikely have the hours to fly into BHX then to Greece and back so you need notice to organise aircraft and crew.
As you head into the weekend the chances of this happening become less and less.
The only consolation is that a charter airline will eventually get you there. If it was a loco the flight would be cancelled and the punters left to their own accords.

[OltonPete]

These guys know their contracts rely on on time performance and TC also plan to have spare capacity to mitigate AOG's. They will also bring in any aircraft that are around for charter e.g. Titan.
The problem with a flight to the Greek Islands and back is the crew will unlikely have the hours to fly into BHX then to Greece and back so you need notice to organise aircraft and crew.
As you head into the weekend the chances of this happening become less and less.
The only consolation is that a charter airline will eventually get you there. If it was a loco the flight would be cancelled and the punters left to their own accords.

Absolutely and also worth pointing out although the World Cup hasn't started there are not many spares around - Titan alone at BHX have been busy with one-off charters, two yesterday and a 767 and 757 today so not much capacity spare there.

Good news at BHX, NVZ is fixed and en route on today's flight and yesterday's Heraklion also airborne although nearly 22 hours late.

VEC at Manchester appears to still be tech.

Also not limited to Thomas Cook, TUI down a 737 at EMA and the spare 757 has just left BHX to pick up the schedule.

It seems everyone trying their best, just a run of tech aircraft but great to see MT, TUI and Jet2 have back-ups.

Pete

[Curious Pax]

Friend of a friend should have neen on the MAN-JFK flight today, but reckons it’s cancelled. Anyone know why?

[SWBKCB]

Friend of a friend should have neen on the MAN-JFK flight today, but reckons it’s cancelled. Anyone know why?

Thomas Cook cancel Manchester Airport flight to New York (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/thomas-cook-manchester-airport-flights-14782802)

A Thomas Cook spokeswoman said: “Our flight from Manchester to JFK this morning (MT2848) has been cancelled due to a technical fault. We are extremely sorry to our customers for the inconvenience and disappointment this will cause. All customers will be refunded in full and those who would like help with an alternative Thomas Cook Airlines flight can call our contact centre. Customers who independently book alternative flights with other airlines can contact our customer relations team to claim any difference in cost.”

[MANFOD]

According to the article in the M.E.N. there were 310 passengers for the flight. The VS flight's SDT is 13.50 and it would be surprising if some of the TCX pax couldn't be accommodated on that assuming it was a B747 as planned

[goldeneye]

Sorry why is Thomas Cook cancelling a flight a news article on the M.E.N. Airlines do this day in day out the world over.

[roverman]

Sorry why is Thomas Cook cancelling a flight a news article on the M.E.N. Airlines do this day in day out the world over.

I agree that the cancellation of a single flight does not warrant headline news. Of some concern though is the wider punctuality performance of Thomas Cook's West Coast routes, which seem to be struggling to operate to schedule. Having experienced moderate delays myself in both directions traveling MAN-LAX-MAN last month, and noting regular knock-on and tech delays of 1-2 hours on the SEA/SFO/LAX sectors, it does make me wonder if the programme is too ambitious for the fleet and crews available. It may be the beach holiday DNA showing through, but given that they are in code-share and partnership agreements, with pax connecting on at both ends of these particular routes, that really needs sorting.

[garry8g]

I thought Thomas Cook had at least one spare A330 aircraft at Manchester for the summer season? (Reported in Jethros)
Is that no longer the case?

[Curious Pax]

I thought Thomas Cook had at least one spare A330 aircraft at Manchester for the summer season? (Reported in Jethros)
Is that no longer the case?

G-TCXB has been at MAN since Tuesday morning, which is unusual at this time of year. Presumably the tech issue the TCX press release alludes to. A HiFly 330 was due to position in on a TCX flight number this evening which may also be related.

[irishlad06]

9H-AGU Hifly A330-300 has arrived in Manchester this morning to starts it’s wet lease for the summer

[SJL26779]

9H-AGU Hifly A330-300 has arrived in Manchester this morning to starts it’s wet lease for the summer

I wonder why this mornings fuerteventura flight is delayed then showing next info 1300

[SJL26779]

Not a good start for the leased A330 then? Today's Fuerteventura flight is delayed until 16:30 and is now operating on TCX A321 G-TCDV

[GKOC41]

Thomas Cook cancel Manchester Airport flight to New York (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/thomas-cook-manchester-airport-flights-14782802)

I take back my comment about Charter Airlines getting you there eventually....

[irishlad06]

Not a good start for the leased A330 then? Today's Fuerteventura flight is delayed until 16:30 and is now operating on TCX A321 G-TCDV

think it was due to position info Manchester yesterday evening with crew but for some reason it didn’t. It landed about 0430 this morning local with a load of crew on it so maybe that had something to do with it.

I know the A321 recovered the FUE - either some passengers haven’t travelled or it was only booked to a A321 load.

[Plane.Silly]

I know the A321 recovered the FUE - either some passengers haven’t travelled or it was only booked to a A321 load.

Majority were booked onto this, Also heard rumour the rest were shipped back on various LS flights. Would have though TCX would eat their own hat rather than pay the competition :E

[22/04]

Airlines do cooperate wit in situations like this - they know there will come a time when Jet2 are looking for seats and TCX will help them out

[chuzwuza]

A coincidence that all of these delays are occurring now that tax have got rid of their own engineers?

[bb67]

No, no coincidence at all. Thomas Cook have made a monumental mistake getting rid of their line maintenance engineers, and are now seeing the result.

[Bob_Harris_721]

Some in TCX will recall that I flew the MYT A330 from its introduction until 2004. We generally did a pretty good job, I think, but occasionally something would go horribly wrong and our passengers were put through the most appalling situations. I vividly remember a full planeload in Barbados, awaiting our much delayed MAN while the flaps were fixed. The cabin temperature was through the roof because the APU was u/s. The unpleasantness was shocking, both in what we were doing to our passengers and what they were saying to us.

On that aircraft there was also an ongoing problem with nosewheel shimmy, always responded to with "Pressures checked, report further". At 90 knots, the shimmy was so serious that I felt we had to stop. If we had, I think we would have genuinely pushed some passengers over the edge and into a breakdown. By 100 knots, the shimmy had somehow eased and off we went to MAN. From home, I called my boss and implored him to stop the aircraft departing for Jamaica without a new pair of nosewheels. He failed - so instead, 12 hours later, they sent some down to Jamaica from Bangor Maine by Learjet after the crew quite rightly refused to take it. Does this sort of thing still go on today, I wonder?

Okay, so on holiday in New York, you can quite imagine how I felt to awaken last Thursday (14th June) to find an email from Thomas Cook saying sorry, flight cancelled, refund on its way, rebook your own way home (call if we might help you with this), goodbye. Or words to that effect. The CAA specifically states that passengers cannot be abandoned abroad, yet there we were. No mention of accommodation or meals or other expenses, nor of refunding the air fare difference, nor of the official EU compensation for lateness caused by last minute cancellation.

New York was full, flights packed and local prices absurdly high. Quite scary. In the event I rapidly cobbled something together that got us same day out of New York and home via Lisbon, arriving at MAN only 7 hours later than originally planned. However, that was the result of some experience, a bit of boldness, a healthy credit card or two and faith that TCX would at some point refund me the $2000 that I had to pay. To many, such a process would be utterly terrifying.

For the rest of the day, the sequence and content of various emails beggars belief. Early on, the 600 euro EU compensation was mentioned together with an online way to claim it, but with no mention of claiming anything else. A bit later, I was told that I had cancelled our booking, not TCX. Around lunchtime, TCX emailed to say that another carrier had not been found and wouldn't be, but confirming a refund - well, I had easily found TAP via Lisbon, why hadn't they? At teatime, climbing into our taxi for JFK, I read that we had been put on a Lufthansa flight to Munich the following day, but with no further details - we would find out about everything else only on check-in 24 hours later. Twice I emailed that we would not need this flight, without acknowledgement.

The icing on the cake: I now receive daily emails asking me how good my flight was!

My reason for writing all this? Quite simply, I am horrified. I sympathise with whichever under-resourced department has to sort out the minutiae of 600+ suddenly cancelled passengers, but there has to be a better way than this. Writing to Customer Services would, I believe, be a complete waste of time. If there is someone out there with direct access to the "top" at TCX, please do send it in their direction. I have a lot of affection for the A330 operation that we started at MYT (or was it still Airtours?) in 2000 and it hurts to see its legacy being mishandled. If I receive a PM, I'll certainly respond and co-operate with any kind of informal query.

Thank you for reading!
Bob

PS Well done Colin Dawson for making it through :-) (see above)

[Bob_Harris_721]

I have received a PM but it won't let me reply, your settings maybe?
Or you could PM me an email address.

[kieb92]

Boston and Seattle not on sale for Thomas Cook for Summer 2019. Can anyone confirm if they are being dropped?

[MANFOD]

I've been raising that question for a while with no conclusive response. It seems slightly odd that the airport, not just TCX, have been advertising this new route in 2018 in their PR blurb if they knew it was being dropped after only 1 season.

I couldn't find the TCX timetable of long haul routes for 2019 when I checked earlier today but a few weeks ago it was showing 38 weekly departures from MAN in 2019 compared to 44 this summer. If they are cutting back to the US, it would offset some of the 20% increase in capacity from Virgin.

If VS are a single carrier doing BOS, and TCX likewise on SFO (we know VS are dropping SFO), that may not be a bad thing in some ways. However, if SEA is chopped after just 1 season, that is disappointing.

Incidentally, in a presentation I heard a few years ago of unserved routes from MAN at that time, SFO was well ahead of LAX in terms of potential pax for a direct service. Perhaps demand has changed since, but we'll have both TCX and VS flying to LAX in 2019.

[mudcity]

The BOS / SEA have been operated by Air Tanker but with two A330 allegedly going to Jet 2 next summer it would appear that TCX will not have an Air Tanker aircraft available, so maybe the delay in publishing the schedule is they are trying to source a A330 for the operation ?

[Beatts]

Thomas Cook mulling airline sale - Sunday Times

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thomas-cook-grp-airlines/thomas-cook-mulling-airline-sale-sunday-times-idUKKBN1KI0MI

[Psr777]

TCX are indeed sourcing an A330 to replace the frame going back to Air Tanker. According to Routesonline:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/279804/thomas-cook-modifies-manchester-us-west-coast-service-in-s19/

LAX decreases by 1 a week
SFO change of day of operation
SEA increase to 3 a week

[CabinCrewe]

Who'd have thought SEA would be more popular...

[LAX_LHR]

Thomas Cook S19 long haul changes for MAN

BOS appears at this stage to be gone
LAX from 3 > 2 weekly
MCO from 9 > 13 weekly (3 flights on Sundays)
JFK from 7 > 8 weekly (2nd flight on Mondays)
CUN from 6 > 9 weekly
MBJ reintroduced at 1 weekly
SEA from 2 > 3 weekly

appears to be 8 based A330 Although 9 required on Mondays. Spaces for more long haul but may well be used to backfill short haul. If 9 aircraft are used then lots of spaces. Rumours of MSY/BWI but obviously unconfirmed.

[gilesdavies]

Does anyone know what Thomas Cooks long haul plans are, with regards to new aircraft?

Just been looking the A330-200's are averaging around 13.4yrs old and the A330-300's are around 18yrs old. When you add into the mix the Condor 767's which are averaging nearly 23yrs old, I guess the airline needs to consider the next move for the long haul fleet in the next 18-24 months and would make sense to probably make one large order for the whole group to secure the best deal, with the first deliveries going to Condor and doing staggered deliveries over maybe a five year period, the current A330-200's will be reaching around 18-20yrs old.
(Source: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Thomas-Cook-Group)

Another question, can Thomas Cook Airlines maintain long haul flying as a "Scheduled" carrier for the foreseeable future from Manchester, or are they just riding the crest of a wave while there is limited low cost long haul competition from Manchester, at the moment?
I can't imagine they would be in a good place if they tried to compete with Norwegian.

Could this be why there are rumours of Thomas Cook looking for an investor in the airline side of the business, to buy new aircraft?

[roverman]

Thomas Cook S19 long haul changes for MAN

BOS appears at this stage to be gone
LAX from 3 > 2 weekly
MCO from 9 > 13 weekly (3 flights on Sundays)
JFK from 7 > 8 weekly (2nd flight on Mondays)
CUN from 6 > 9 weekly
MBJ reintroduced at 1 weekly
SEA from 2 > 3 weekly

appears to be 8 based A330 Although 9 required on Mondays. Spaces for more long haul but may well be used to backfill short haul. If 9 aircraft are used then lots of spaces. Rumours of MSY/BWI but obviously unconfirmed.

Largely good news, I think. Slightly surprised at the scale of capacity increase on MCO and CUN. BOS with MT gone but we keep the route courtesy of VS. It's another sign that MT and VS are accepting the size of the market on some of their MAN-USA routes, and instead of a capacity/ price war they are somehow working out who can do which ones the best, and which to leave to the other. VS have increased BOS for next year. Likewise VS have dropped out of SFO and left that to MT, who have stepped down a notch on LAX as VS join them on this arguably stronger route. No suggestion of any collusion here, just good market sense. The shift of operating days by MT also means that we have a flight to LAX on 5 days of the week rather than 2 flights on some days and none on most. This can only be good, leaving both airlines stronger and the routes with some scope to grow. SEA increase in frequency does not surprise me, the transfer volumes connecting on to this service over MAN have been HUGE. Dr. Frasier Crane would say 'I'm listening'.

[Navpi]

Excellent summary Roverman.

I'm surprised MAG never used Daphne (Jane Leeves) to promote Manchester in the USA.

[Musket90]

The USA would likely have known no different but she was born in Essex and brought up in Sussex so definitely not a UK marketing tool for Manchester !
The Frasier series repeated on TV Channel 4 most mornings is brilliant and a must watch. I'm with you Roverman on "I'm listening"

[Travel Agent]

TC Long Haul from Manchester S19

Cuba - Holguin is dropping to weekly from twice weekly, plus weekly flights to Varadero, Cayo Coco & Cayo Santa Maria
Las Vegas is operating five times a week

[buzz_hornet]

Scandinavian arm to take hifly a380

[CabinCrewe]

presumably not in Thomas Cook Scandinavia colours?! (is there still such a thing?)
They used to rotate a scandinavian aircraft through UK too!

[buzz_hornet]

presumably not in Thomas Cook Scandinavia colours?! (is there still such a thing?)
They used to rotate a scandinavian aircraft through UK too!

wet lease arrangement so i imagine will stay in hifly colours

[buzz_hornet]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/443x960/38118937_10157066009730628_6658614165516582912_n_e4a9549313b 18d4c0f31deef2ceabe9f22930216.jpg

...................

[flying phil 2007]

The Hi-fly A380 is doing Copenhagen to Larnaca today

[Beatts]

Being used on Copenhagen to Larnaca and back today and from Oslo to Palma de Mallorca and back on 2 August.

[toledoashley]

Thomas Cook Scandinavia are using it to repatriate passengers after an aircraft got stuck in Rhodes, its clearing the backlog. Its going to be at Norwegian from tomorrow.

[CabinCrewe]

expanded UK Montego Bay program planned for S19

[VickersVicount]

presumably reshuffling rather than true expansion. Certainly some LAS services reducing for S19

[chaps1954]

Manchester is growing but Stansted ic cut

[TCX69]

Callsign to change to “Thomas Cook” for the winter schedule.

Be quite sad to see “Kestrel” go as the last reference to MyTravel. Although it was never their code, at least they’re using MT flight numbers now.

[mullac30]

I'm shocked that they are getting rid of one of the coolest callsigns flying. What's even the point if it's not something the public going to see?

[canberra97]

I'm shocked that they are getting rid of one of the coolest callsigns flying. What's even the point if it's not something the public going to see?

Or hear even rather than ''see''!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

What’s the reason for the change?

[Border Reiver]

"Kestrel" goes right back to the start and the MD 83 way before MYT. Happy days.

[22/04]

Have heard Kestrel has caused confusion on the leased aircraft.

[goldeneye]

Was Thomas Cook not the call sign of TC Belgium ?

[MKY661]

Was Thomas Cook not the call sign of TC Belgium ?

It was. I'm guessing that's the most probable reason why they're changing it.

[azz767]

Does anyone know what seating config the leased TS A330's will be in? Will they be in TS's standard or the TCX standard? As they are doing l/h flying from Germany I doubt they will go all economy like the leased Air Tanker frames.

[SJL26779]

Does anyone know what seating config the leased TS A330's will be in? Will they be in TS's standard or the TCX standard? As they are doing l/h flying from Germany I doubt they will go all economy like the leased Air Tanker frames.






https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/558x694/tcx_ts_a330_economy_layout_28e8f9dd96caf7d68ceb612c595e26635 e9947b3.jpg

Taken from the website when doing a dummy booking from FRA-VRA or FRA-PUJ

Premium has only 4 seats:

[chaps1954]

Is C-GJDA the 1st A330 to arrive as this has just landed at Manchester in an all white scheme with a non standard flight number

Ian

[azz767]

G-NIKO and G-TCDA are now in the full grey sunny heart livery.

As far as I am aware that just leaves G-CHTZ in the old blue scheme and the hybrid ex MON a/c, all of which I assume will be repainted over the winter?

[Fly757X]

G-NIKO and G-TCDA are now in the full grey sunny heart livery.

As far as I am aware that just leaves G-CHTZ in the old blue scheme and the hybrid ex MON a/c, all of which I assume will be repainted over the winter?

G-TCDB too.

[azz767]

Please can someone explain the logic to me of TCX A321 fleet this winter?

They've leased a number of their own (that they had from new, sharkleted) frames to Transat. This has obviously left them short as they have two Avion frames on lease over the winter. So to me this raises a couple of questions.

Is the deal from transat that good they were willing to leave themselves short?
Are the avion frames that cheap to lease its more cost effective to do so?
Are the TCX fleet planners that poor that they didn't realise they were leaving themselves short?

[chaps1954]

Remember this deal with Air Transat is a 2 way deal and lasts for about 7 years so I would guess that it is a good deal

[SWBKCB]

Are the TCX fleet planners that poor that they didn't realise they were leaving themselves short?

Yes - that's just what it's like at a major airline - sometimes they have some many planes, so many flights they just forget or run out of fingers to count on.... :ugh:

[vectisman]

I think the leasing out and in makes sense myself. The aircraft going to Canada for the winter are A321s which are larger than the A320S being leased in.
Europe needs fewer seats in the winter months. I also expect the leased in A320s are not that expensive to operate and can be returned whenever. The 7 year
deal with Transat is lucrative because it keeps aircraft and crews busy in the winter with costs covered plus a bit of profit.

[azz767]

My point was regarding the 2/3 Avion aircraft that per Jethros are staying all winter.

So why lease a shed load of your own A321's to TS for the winter and then need to keep 2 Avion frames for the winter? That's why I asked if the TS deal was that good that they were willing to leave themselves short of their own a/c or are the Avion frames that cheap to lease, because to me it seems a bit of a long way round to do it, lease your own a/c out and lease someone else's in.

[Cazza_fly]

My point was regarding the 2/3 Avion aircraft that per Jethros are staying all winter.

So why lease a shed load of your own A321's to TS for the winter and then need to keep 2 Avion frames for the winter? That's why I asked if the TS deal was that good that they were willing to leave themselves short of their own a/c or are the Avion frames that cheap to lease, because to me it seems a bit of a long way round to do it, lease your own a/c out and lease someone else's in.

To be fair, i think you've answered your own question. There's a lot more to these deals than "just aircraft". Things in aviation never look simple and straight forward (nor rarely are either), but there's almost always a reason of why its done that way from a financial point of view.

[TSR2]

An A320 in full Air Transat livery is about to depart Lanzarote for Manchester operating a TC flight.

[TSR2]

Sorry its an A321 with registration G-TCDW

[VentureGo]

In addition to G-TCDW in above post, of the other frames immediately due for Air Transat:-
G-TCDJ is already in Montreal (from 17th Nov), G-TCDK is currently in Tallinn from 17/11, G-TCDL is still on operations ex LGW as of today.

https://www.planespotters.net/production-list/search?fleet=Air-Transat&manufacturer=Airbus&type=A321&fleetStatus=future

[TSR2]

Was not aware that Thomas Cook had a tie-up with Air Transat. Thank you for the information.

[LiamNCL]

G-TCDL also in full transat colours. G-TCDP was registered over the weekend (ex D-AIAE) of Condor & G-JMAB was WFU

[VentureGo]

G-TCDL also in full transat colours. G-TCDP was registered over the weekend (ex D-AIAE) of Condor & G-JMAB was WFU

Other movements shown here:
https://www.airfleets.net/divers/update-80.htm

G-TCDN/P/R and G-TCDY (Shown re-registered as C-GTXY)

[PAXboy]

I'm trying to find out what season they operate the LGW-CPT? It started as 2 or 3 rotations a week but when they say 'seasonal', I'm not sure if they mean Northern Winter or Northern Summer?

Thanks.

[FFHKG]

Try looking on their web site and put in a dummy booking!

[Rutan16]

Simple January to March Northern Winter period.

[FFHKG]

Tried a couple of dummy bookings LON to CPT and BA proved to be cheaper on several dates, with a price that included meals and luggage

[cheesebag]

TCDW Currently on way from MAN to Montreal

[PAXboy]

Thanks folks. When I tried putting in dummy dates, it always returned bookings via Germany with Condor - which was a kind of answer but it's a redious way to find out when they do start the route.

[FFHKG]

The Thos Cook web site shows clearly which dates LGW>CPT operates..... it highlights the days with a little yellow aeroplane! Nothing could be simpler!

[mik3bravo]

Sky News: Thomas Cook profit warning Link (http://news.sky.com/story/thomas-cook-in-fresh-profit-warning-after-tough-year-11564822)

If we are to believe methorolgists that our UK summer's are set to become dryer and warmer, and if good weather becomes more consistent then for some airlines this will threaten their business models. Of course, a boom for domestic UK tourism as increasing number of us defer foreign travel in the hope of hot British summer's.

[Sharklet_321]

TCA may very well be in more trouble than Flybe.

[shamrock7seal]

Not sure about that since they are still profitable. They are expecting 210m odd profit for the year versus Flybe's losses. However, the profit warnings and the share price/marketing capitalisation falls are concerning and show an inability to prevent negative perceptions of the business.

[stewyb]

Not sure about that since they are still profitable. They are expecting 210m odd profit for the year versus Flybe's losses. However, the profit warnings and the share price/marketing capitalisation falls are concerning and show an inability to prevent negative perceptions of the business.

Planned growth of EZY Holidays could also have a serious impact going forward for both TC and TUI!

[All names taken]

TCA may very well be in more trouble than Flybe.

Right - I'll bite - given your troll-like post...and given that TCA is in profit (read the press release) what actual evidence do you have to support your intentionally mischievious statement?
Suggest you put up or shut up...or better still apologize for the un-necessary alarm you may have caused amongst the many good people that work there only a month before xmas..

[Sharklet_321]

All names taken:

Firstly the staff would have been kept fully informed of the financial performance of the business ahead of anything being released to the stock exchange/media. They already know that bonuses will be much reduced this year (or nil) as a result. If not thats a whole other story.

Secondly, the very public 'alarm' was raised by Thomas Cook themselves (not my post!) with a 2nd profit warning. The share price is also public knowledge and has fallen over 70%. Similar falls to Flybe (between 70-90%).

Let's not pretend there are no weeds. There is good reason for Thomas Cook to put the airline part of their business up for sale for their shareholders who are seriously pissed off with a 2nd profit warning and have seen the performance of the airline part of the business gradually reducing in line with more intense competition and sensitivity to weather.

I want to see a Thomas Cook that competes more effectively with the likes of Jet2 and Jet2 Holidays and right now this is not happening.

[HH6702]

The air transat deal was done I believe over 2 years ago before monarch went out of business.

TCX are now tryjng to fill the gap that monarch left in the winter but because there own aircraft have been agreed elsewhere they are now having to lease in extra aircraft. I'm guessing next winter will be different as they will be scaling back so not the need for the extra lease aircraft

I could be wrong

[AirportPlanner1]

Mik3bravo may be onto something with his climate change pessimism for TCX’s model but that’s so long term it’s insignificant right now. Besides, the same models are saying wetter and more miserable winters so plenty of time to condition Brits to going away in the winter instead like the Scandinavians do.

[LGS6753]

Firstly the staff would have been kept fully informed of the financial performance of the business ahead of anything being released to the stock exchange/media.

If that is in fact the case, the Directors would be in breach of their fiduciary duty.

[mik3bravo]

Mik3bravo may be onto something with his climate change pessimism for TCX’s model but that’s so long term it’s insignificant right now. Besides, the same models are saying wetter and more miserable winters so plenty of time to condition Brits to going away in the winter instead like the Scandinavians do
Unconscious bias. Her? :hmm:

[inOban]

I'm surprised no-one has highlighted that Thomas cook's shares are now worth less than their debt. Fallen 60% recently.

[pabely]

I'm surprised no-one has highlighted that Thomas cook's shares are now worth less than their debt. Fallen 60% recently.
Debt is not an issue as long as you can service it, then it is a BIG issue!

[daz211]

So the share price drop and the reports of the Airline is in trouble was on the ITV news tonight,
It is never good when reports like this get on to National news as they don’t give the full true story. This will as we all know result in people booking with other companies.

I think what’s needed for this airline to get through this is a total shake up of the company. If it was down to me I would improve the website and Close all high street shops for a start. Iwould want to move some or all longhaul out of LGW and into STN get a good deal from MAG.
I know people on here won’t agree but things need to change and fast, Shops don’t make money and Stansted has no competition on longhaul, I’m sure MAG would offer a very great deal.

[Flightrider]

Daz, I agree that it's never good for any travel company to appear in the headlines as being in trouble. But I totally disagree with your proposed solution. TC tried long-haul from STN with a peak-only programme and significant capacity. It was a complete disaster, to the extent it was dropped completely rather than being scaled back to keep the good bits and drop the poor aspects - the clear implication being all of it was poor. I'd say betting the house on long-haul at STN right now would be incredibly foolhardy, much though I recognise you might like to see this yourself.

[daz211]

Daz, I agree that it's never good for any travel company to appear in the headlines as being in trouble. But I totally disagree with your proposed solution. TC tried long-haul from STN with a peak-only programme and significant capacity. It was a complete disaster, to the extent it was dropped completely rather than being scaled back to keep the good bits and drop the poor aspects - the clear implication being all of it was poor. I'd say betting the house on long-haul at STN right now would be incredibly foolhardy, much though I recognise you might like to see this yourself.

I work for an Airline that operates from many UK Airports, my responsibilities are STN and MAN, I live in Wales.

The reason I suggested Stansted is the cost and zero competition.
Seasonal MCO and LAS had very good loads and they were not promoted other than in the out dated Travel Brochure.

Advertising the routes on TV and social media would easily fill Aircraft. It time to modernise the company. LGW has to much competition to offer competitive longhaul.
with a good deal from Stansted the profits would be greater.

[Flightrider]

Really? If they were that good, why on earth have they dropped them completely and not repeated the programme? Airlines don't normally dump routes that are profitable. The fact they have ditched this completely suggests it was nothing short of a disaster area. And as you say, MAG would no doubt be very keen to encourage this, so even with the fantastic airport deal that they're likely to have had to support it, it still didn't work. Neither of us (unless you work for TC!) have the figures to know for sure, but I'd say that all the signals here are that STN long-haul was a calamity for them and part of the problem, definitely not part of the solution.

[HZ123]

Seems it has been around to long, not dynamic, lacking direction and has stood still while Easy, Ryanair, and in particular Jet2 have taken its custom? Cannot see how it can survive the winter!