Ryanair B738 loses nosewheel

[DaveReidUK]

Media reporting that a RYR B738 shed a nosewheel on departure from Stansted enroute to Copenhagen this morning, landed safely at East Midlands.

AAIB have despatched an investigation team.

Ryanair plane makes emergency landing at East Midlands Airport after losing nose wheel - Nottingham Post (http://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/ryanair-plane-makes-emergency-landing-481625)

[goeasy]

Seems strange diverting to EMA, unless that was the closest spare aircraft....

[Double Hydco]

The crew seemed quite surprised when London told them that RYR ops had been on the phone and asked them to divert to Prestwick, or failing that East Midlands......

[Tay Cough]

The crew seemed quite surprised when London told them that RYR ops had been on the phone and asked them to divert to Prestwick, or failing that East Midlands......

... or anywhere which isn't going to potentially close the only runway at your main base.

[ChocksAwayChaps]

How does that kind of thing happen? Surely the maintenance guys check that all is as it should be?

[DaveReidUK]

Airliners rarely lose wheels, but when they do it's often a result of corrosion (sometimes the whole axle departs).

That's not really the kind of thing you can check for on every turnround.

[RAT 5]

The crew seemed quite surprised when London told them that RYR ops had been on the phone

Curious to know how they found out. Was there a problem on retraction: did ATC tell them as their Dunlop went AWOL across the carpark? (I once saw a video of a main wheel doing cartwheels down LGW's runway. It had a huge amount of distractive energy in it). Why were pax kept on board for 1.15mins? Surely lighten the plane ASAP to help move it PDQ. Must be a bus problem. Was the nose wheel damaged so that a tow bar could not be fitted, or does EMA have barless tugs? But even then damage could prevent it locking on. Closing EMA for 75mins would jot be popular, but as has been surmised spare a/c & perhaps crew might have been there not PIK. And how did they take the a/c of the runway, ands was it unable to taxi off, vacate & then stop?
Curious to learn as this is not very common. Braking technique and roll out distance would also be a learning process. I would assume as gentle as possible and full length. From memory EMA does not have HST's anyway.

[Krystal n chips]

Airliners rarely lose wheels, but when they do it's often a result of corrosion (sometimes the whole axle departs).

That's not really the kind of thing you can check for on every turnround.

Corrosion is one possible factor certainly. As is incorrect fitment by engineers.

B-Cal 1-11 ex MAN did the same, a/c headed to LGW, wheel headed to the River Bollin. Wheel changed on night stop.

[Chris Martyr]

I would have thought that axle tube corrosion on an a/c of that age was fairly unlikely.
But as an LAE myself , do rather feel for the maint. guys in a situation like this , as everyone and his mother in law is trying to second-guess their actions , and I don't think that I would like to do a nightshift on R/A's aeroplanes , either at STN or anywhere else. I have my theories on the matter which for the moment will remain theories.
As far as knowing about the wheels departure . A slight pull to the left probably , accompanied by a TPIS warning ?

[Alber Ratman]

Yes, wait for the AAIB investigation. Corrosion, material failure, maintenance error? All possibilities. Not hard on a dark rainy night to forget a step or miss something (I got absolutely soaked last night on my night stop) and the paper print out tends to turn into mash!

[Krystal n chips]

Yes, wait for the AAIB investigation. Corrosion, material failure, maintenance error? All possibilities. Not hard on a dark rainy night to forget a step or miss something (I got absolutely soaked last night on my night stop) and the paper print out tends to turn into mash!

Indeed, and as a former engineer I am most certainly not pointing the proverbial finger at engineering as the cause. I only offered the B-Cal example by way of contrast to Dave Reids post. And I was only too familiar being a Line engineer, with the conditions you met last night.

[DaveReidUK]

I would have thought that axle tube corrosion on an a/c of that age was fairly unlikely.

A/c is 11 years old, I wouldn't be so quick to rule out corrosion, either on its own or in combination with a fatigue crack.

[arketip]

(I once saw a video of a main wheel doing cartwheels down LGW's runway. It had a huge amount of distractive energy in it).

If you concentrate you should not get too distracted by it ;)

[Chris Martyr]

Dave , I haven't ruled out corrosion or a fatigue crack. You're right , both are totally plausible.
I'm just looking at it from a 'probability' point of view. I don't want to start speculating just yet , as a mark of respect for the maint. guys.
But I'm sure you probably know what I'm thinking.......and I really do hope that it isn't that .

[Exup]

Aircraft maybe 11 years old, doubt that the gear is that old. According to Boeing gear is swapped out approx every 10 years or 18000 cycles so would be a good bet that it's fairly new. Once had a main gear torque link shear off on a fairly new gear, turned out to be an error in the heat treatment process from manufacture.

[Council Van]

Plane forced to make emergency landing at East Midlands Airport causes havoc for motorists on M1 - Burton Mail (http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/news/local-news/plane-forced-make-emergency-landing-474437)

Over reaction by Leicestershire police yet again in stopping traffic on the M1.

[TBSC]

The crew seemed quite surprised when London told them that RYR ops had been on the phone and asked them to divert to Prestwick, or failing that East Midlands......
Unbelievable that they don't use ACARS in 2017 yet.

[DaveReidUK]

Plane forced to make emergency landing at East Midlands Airport causes havoc for motorists on M1 - Burton Mail (http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/news/local-news/plane-forced-make-emergency-landing-474437)

Over reaction by Leicestershire police yet again in stopping traffic on the M1.

Having shed one wheel, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that it could lose the other, maybe even on final approach.

Have you ever had a nosewheel land on your car? I'm told it can ruin your entire day.

[dixi188]

Krystal n chips.

If the BCAL 1-11 event was about 1981 or 82 I was at there at Gatwick and saw it land.
It was a main wheel that came off on take off from MAN.
The other wheel on that leg had been changed the previous evening at Gatwick and the guy that changed it had already been Hung, Drawn and Quatered before the aircraft arrived at Gatwick. When it did a flypast he pointed out that the wheel he fitted was still there.
It turned out that the wheel that came off had an incorrect bearing fitted and had done 30 or 40 landings before departing the axle.

[Procrastinus]

All for the want of a split pin?

[Wycombe]

Happened to me (as a young pax) on a British Airtours 707 at Dubrovnik in (I think) 1976. Detached nosewheel clearly visible to us at bounced off into the long grass!

[ratchetring]

All for the want of a split pin?

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt...

[DaveReidUK]

It can ruin your day if an aircraft wheel/tyre lands on your head, house, School, Car, University etc

What a ridiculous argument. You can't eliminate all the risk, so you don't bother mitigating any.

Let's hope that philosophy doesn't catch on ... :ugh:

[Joe_K]

Plane forced to make emergency landing at East Midlands Airport causes havoc for motorists on M1 - Burton Mail (http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/news/local-news/plane-forced-make-emergency-landing-474437)

Over reaction by Leicestershire police yet again in stopping traffic on the M1.

From the article: "Leicestershire Police was called by East Midlands Airport to the M1 near to the airport at 9.56am in relation to an aircraft which needed to make an emergency landing."

So it's the airport overreacting rather than the police? Because realistically, what are the police going to say? "Our risk assessment is better than yours, despite not having any info on what's going on with the aircraft"?

[fireflybob]

So why don't they close the motorway for all aircraft movements just in case? What about the possibility of a single engine aircraft having an engine failure after take off or on the approach?

You are more likely to end up with a serious collision on the Motorway as a result of the temporary closure than a bit of aircraft hitting a vehicle.


Absolutely - be careful when you "fix" one problem that you don't generate others!

[Dan Winterland]

http://avherald.com/img/orient_thai_b733_hs-bri_nanning_160411_3.jpg

Not the first time this has happened. This is a 737-300 which lost a nosewheel last year.

[Dan Winterland]

Unbelievable that they don't use ACARS in 2017 yet.

RYR don't have ACARS. Too cheap to pay for it!

[Cows getting bigger]

Perhaps the Leicestershire Police have a long memory? January 1989 rings a bell.

[Krystal n chips]

Krystal n chips.

If the BCAL 1-11 event was about 1981 or 82 I was at there at Gatwick and saw it land.
It was a main wheel that came off on take off from MAN.
The other wheel on that leg had been changed the previous evening at Gatwick and the guy that changed it had already been Hung, Drawn and Quatered before the aircraft arrived at Gatwick. When it did a flypast he pointed out that the wheel he fitted was still there.
It turned out that the wheel that came off had an incorrect bearing fitted and had done 30 or 40 landings before departing the axle.

Nope, different event to the one you saw. This was a nose wheel changed on a night stop and was done by Dan's who did the line maintenance for B-Cal at the time.

[Procrastinus]

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt...

Bit of a sense of humour failure day?

[Corrosion]

As Exup pointed out, possible cause might be something else than clear traditional corrosion spot.

-maint error
-previously damaged threads on axle/nut
-bearing damage
-traditional corrosion on axle
-corrosion/heat damage possible previuous bearing failure
-with heat damage, there is possibility to have problems with axle plating cadmium. Turns problematic with axle steel.
-manufacturing error on overhaul
-hard landing earlier, undetected failure

Time will tell.

[RAT 5]

Was the a/c operating under a PAN? The use of 'emergency landing' is used for any event where it lands not at planned destination or alternate. Once 'emergency' is released on the airwaves all services sitting bored seem to want 'to be seen to be doing something'.
I remember an event many years ago where a UK a/c shutdown an engine, perhaps even a fire, and diverted to LPL under Mayday. That kicked into action all sorts of unknowns including alerting all hospitals within a radius and calling extra fire brigade from down town. In the subsequent haste to reach the airport the fire engine crashed into an innocent car and the driver as killed. The a/c landed safely and everyone else survived.
I've had various differing advices from airlines about when to use PAN or Mayday. Each seemed to have their own opinions. What we were not told is how ATC & Airfield procedures reacted to each. IMHO that is very relevant information for a captain. I know there were some old dogs who always wanted a Mayday to clear the skies for them. "Who's ever heard of a PAN outside of the classroom". Grump. Others were Mayday first then downgrade; others were wait and see what the condition is after you've actioned the QRH.
In all their advices there was nothing about what the rest of 'the team' were doing in the dark.

[number0009]

Bit of a sense of humour failure day?
There's absolutely no doubt now.
......

[parkfell]

RAT5

You raise what is a very topical issue amongst some of my colleagues as to the use of MAYDAY or PAN.
I think you will find that the diversion airfield would declare either FULL EMERGENCY, or possibly AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT IMMINENT. The actual decision would be detailed in their MATS PART TWO (local instructions).
Many moons ago I was an ACTO II with the CAA (now NATS) before leaving for BAeFC
I suspect that the external agencies were alerted and attended. Perhaps a current ATCO can update us as to the current practice.

As for the concept downgrading from MAYDAY to PAN ~ I have search for this in CAP413 and other documents without success.
Cancelling a MAYDAY ~ yes. Downgrade ~ ???

[RAT 5]

Cancelling a MAYDAY ~ yes. Downgrade ~ ???

Well, like I do with my hotel bookings sometime: book the expensive flexible until I know definitely, then cancel & rebook the cheaper no-refund rate. So if you cancel a Mayday you could always re-declare a PAN.

[M.Mouse]

I think you will find that the diversion airfield would declare either FULL EMERGENCY, or possibly AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT IMMINENT.

I have always been curious about a 'FULL' EMERGENCY. It implies there is also a PARTIAL EMERGENCY or a LITTLE BIT OF AN EMERGENCY or an INCY WINCY TINY EMERGENCY.

Is there really written down the term 'FULL' EMERGENCY?

[The Fat Controller]

@M.Mouse

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP493%20Edition%206%20Amendment%201%20Corrigendum%20(April% 202015).pdf

Section 5, Chapter 7

Happy reading !

[TURIN]

Its been a while since I changed either a 1-11 or 737 nose wheel, but do they have a spacer fitted between the wheel and axle hub? :eek:

[parkfell]

Mr Mouse

Look at webpage 339 of 468 of MATS part one.


RAT 5

Again I need a current ATCO to confirm this, but when I worked at Glasgow for my aerodrome MER, once the external agencies had been alerted, and they were deploying to the airport, it was not possible to cancel them from attending.

[Exup]

Turin. No spacer between wheel hub & axle, wheel fitted on axle large bush/ washer fitted, torqued to relevant torques, 2 securing screws inserted & wire locked.

[Maxmotor]

Its been a while since I changed either a 1-11 or 737 nose wheel, but do they have a spacer fitted between the wheel and axle hub? :eek:

On the 737 the nose wheel nut has additional locking with two allen key head fasteners that go through the spacer and nut which are then lockwired.

[Maxmotor]

Exup you got in just before me.

[Gonzo]

We must not get confused between the degree of urgency applied by the flight crew (MAYDAY/PAN) with the emergency response declared by the airport (usually ATC).

They are not directly correlated.

A mayday in the cockpit might not elicit any emergency response by ATC. A small issue in the cockpit that doesn't warrant a PAN might actually cause ATC to initiate a Full Emergency

Once an emergency response has been initiated by the airport, usually it can only be cancelled by the Airport Fire Service.

In the airport's Emergency Orders, each category of response (Local Stand By, Aircraft Ground Incident, Full Emeregency etc) will have a fixed response level by outside agencies. There is no discretion on the part of the emergency services to dispatch what they think is appropriate.

[RAT 5]

I wonder if, in this day & age, the 'when in doubt syndrome' will take over very easily and everyone will err on the side of caution in case there is a hiccup and a flock of hungry solicitors descend on you with no airs & graces. I understand there are categories of scenario, but someone has to translate the flight crew's words into action and decide. I assume there is no airfield cost involved, even if over enthusiastic, so why not the full monty. And hey, it's always good to have a practice, for real.
Closing a motorway might seem extreme. What radius from the runway is deemed the danger area? What about the motorway not on finals but downwind or base leg?
Back to the ground response; it does seem the definition of an emergency (Mayday) to us is different to other members of the team. If the a/c was operating under a PAN, and it would seem there was no need for more, why would ground call a full emergency. A PAN is a controllable non normal with no imminent or expect threat to life or property. Or were they operating under a MayDay? (we had enough of this 'not singing from the same hymn sheet with wet/dry runways'. I wonder if the left & right hand talk to each other) Attack & defence might have different coaches but they all report to the manager so both entities now what the other is going to do.
I'm still interested in answers to my earlier technical question: ref. how did the crew know; had they raised the gear; were there any problems with that; what deceleration technique is recommended. This is a Pilots chat forum after all.

[Swedish Steve]

In 1978 a Gulf Air Tristar (about two years old) lost a nosewhel on departure from LHR. The crew had no knowledge until informed by ATC that the wheel had been found at LHR. The aircraft was enroute to BAH, and continued through the night. I was working in GF Maintrol at the time, and at about 0500 the Ops Manager called us to inform us that after much consideration he had given the aircraft permission to land. We wondered what plan B was. Anyway it landed without incident and taxied onto the stand. A NLG replacement was required as the axle had sheared off, and it is part of the strut on a Tristar.

[DaveReidUK]

Curious to know how they found out. Was there a problem on retraction: did ATC tell them as their Dunlop went AWOL across the carpark?

According to the Avherald report, the crew were unaware the NW had departed until advised by ATC, which would imply that it was probably found within the STN boundary, or at least in a location close to the airport that allowed the identity of the flight to be deduced.

AH also reports that the axle failed rather than the wheel attachment.

Usual caveats re information originating from Avherald apply. :O

[The AvgasDinosaur]

I think you'll find that the origins of the notification to local authority emergency services lies within the accident report recommendations following the Argonaut accident 4/6/67.
"The emergency services under heavily used 'glide in areas' should be notified of an emergency situation"
G-ALHG at Stockport on finals to runway 24 at Manchester Ringway.
Hope it helps

[Gonzo]

RAT 5,

ack to the ground response; it does seem the definition of an emergency (Mayday) to us is different to other members of the team. If the a/c was operating under a PAN, and it would seem there was no need for more, why would ground call a full emergency

If I had an aircraft coming in with a missing nose wheel, I might well declare a full emergency even if the flight crew hadn't even declared a PAN.

As I said, the category of urgency decided upon by the flight crew has no direct correlation to the category of emergency response initiated on the ground. They are two very different things.

We need to separate the two in our thinking.

[The Fat Controller]

Although it's a long time since I was in a tower, I agree with Gonzo, any aircraft coming my way with 50% of wheels, engines, hydraulics, flaps or even pilots warrants a Full Emergency.

[RAT 5]

Thank you gentlemen.

[Anilv]

Problem with bits that fall off airplanes is not only the missing bit itself but that it hits something as it departs the airplane.

A nosewheel is still a bouncy thing and depending on how fast the airplane was going it could have hit an engine or tailplane on the way out. A 737 nosewheel is pretty small but its quite heavy.. I would like to be in the path of one!

[parkfell]

And of course STRICT LIABILITY applies for any damage caused by things falling off ac.
Nothing to argue about for m'learned friends, just the quantum.

[dixi188]

I believe that BOAC lost a mainwheel from a 747 in the early days and it landed in the staff car park wrecking 3 cars.

[Paracab]

RAT5,

Gonzo is indeed correct in that only airfield fire service can cancel the full emergency. Also, the emergency services do not attend because they are bored. The emergency services are never bored, trust me. It is a locally agreed and pre-determined MAJAX plan that must be adhered to, the local hospitals are made aware, all part of the plan.

It was the bain of my life when I was a controller for the ambulance service twenty odd years ago. The airport on our patch required six ambulances to be sent for a full emergency. I rarely had six free to send to be honest.