Ryanair €10000 signing bonus!

[DutchExpat]

http://careers.ryanair.com/pilots/737-rated-pilots/

[Say Mach Number]

Shame theres no bonus for the loyal Ryanair pilots who have hung around in this outfit.

Well pissed off with this latest stunt.

[Avenger]

The devil is in the detail! its actually described as a " salary advance" in which case it is taxable, and repayable if the pilot leaves within 2 years of joining. In essence is no different to German pilots getting 13 salary payments in a year, except they don't have to pay back! But yes, a kick in the balls for existing loyal Captains, maybe they should get a similar "golden handcuff" payment as NATS procedures. if the incentive keeps planes in the air, its a reasonable carrot from the bean counters

[blueonblue]

nice one Ryanair. Put a drop in an ocean in a market where there are airlines paying that over your wages every single month. When are Ryanair pilots going to wake up. Now they even have their own company insulting them by paying newbies more then them

[Busbo]

in a market where there are airlines paying that over your wages every single month

That maybe true but not exactly relevant. Those are different jobs in a different part of the world.

There's a reason the airlines you mention need to pay so much.

[plikee]

... however following a 21-month gap in new 737 deliveries from Boeing between Jan 2013 and Sep 2014, we have a one-off gap in the flow of senior FO’s with the experience to meet our minimum requirements for promotion to Captains ...

No you idiots, it was because you pissed many people and they just left, that's because you don't have enough people. Why would you get extra €10k if you don't have time to spend it, or you'll probably will spend it in a dementia clinic because you're doing 4 or 6 short sectors in Italy and you can't get any of the only 3 days of annual leave the company left to you this year, not including the unpaid month off that I didn't want or request and you just told me only one month in advance so now I can't make any plans either? Go figure..

[RAFAT]

They could offer €100,000, €200,000 or whatever, I still wouldn't be tempted.....EVER! Not as long as I have a breath left in my body!

[Vokes55]

By all accounts, this has gone down like :mad: soup at Ryanair, especially with those Senior FOs that are making decisions about their future. No doubt their own decisions will be made easier, especially with Jet2 expanding in Stansted.

Shows desperation at Ryanair, the wheels are definitely coming off. Good.

[UAV689]

Its happening...shortages must be hurting them.

First they reduced the entry requirement for the fo upgrade 10e extra per hour.

Then they announced bonding for new cadets

Now this.

It didnt take a scientist to work out that the rate staff are leaving and the 300 aircraft on order is simply never going to work!!

[AMS]

interesting - certainly shows the urgency - although simply a short term pain for them; they will never not have another plan.

Ive heard all those excuses of - never will I pay or anything - bottom line everyone has a price.

[Jonnyknoxville]

Don't forget recent roadshows in Rio and sao paolo in Brazil .

[SID PLATE]

I suspect they're planning to pay this at 500 euros/month, with a monthly admin fee of 501 euros.

[Fire and brimstone]

Its happening...shortages must be hurting them.

First they reduced the entry requirement for the fo upgrade 10e extra per hour.

Then they announced bonding for new cadets

Now this.

It didnt take a scientist to work out that the rate staff are leaving and the 300 aircraft on order is simply never going to work!!

Do you realise how foolish you now look?

No airline in history has ever been short of pilots, as you need sufficient quantity of this (sort of) expensive commodity to safely run an operation.

As every Ryanair aircraft takes off with the full complement of (at least) two pilots, then, by definition, they must be FULLY crewed?

Please think before posting in future.

M. Stooge.

:rolleyes:

P.S. And PLEASE don't bleat on about 'safety'. If the passengers can walk away at the end of the flight, then it is officially safe. Take my word for it - statistics don't lie.

[B737C525]

...and those are just the kinds of 'statements of fact' which I have heard coming from Aviation House in the past.

Ryanair ought to be an excellent place to work. There are many facets of the operation which could make it nirvana. However, a significant number of my colleagues seem to have done their stint, and when you find yourself flying with so many good folk who have been there and didn't stay, it's an easy decision not to bother joining, simply to find out for yourself that it's not a comfortable place to be.

Money alone won't solve that one.

[RobsonCanolo]

Same time probably not the optimum way to run a airline as well saying that it's always fully crewed while having planes on the ground. Waste and hardly best use of resources, i e lease expenses for unused frames and bad for shareholders.

[UAV689]

fire and brimestone/aviation house...

you mistook my comment. it is not just about trying to crew an aircraft for today, tomorrow, even next week. they need to crew an additional 300 aircraft in the next 5 years, probably around 2500 pilots, and they have a huge attrition rate, from my personal experience just under 50% of my type rating having left or in process of leaving in 2 years from completing course is staggering.

It is clear now it is effecting them, when have ryanair ever offered to increase wages, offer bonuses or bond cadets!! They are not doing it for the own social responsibility! In fact the pay only ever goes down at ryan! (look at brookfield Vs Storm Vs The german bluesky agency).

For short term they are short staffed, people being carted about around the network left right and center, not just contractors but ryanair contract staff also, which traditionally they never did as the company would hotel them, far easier to send a contractor out of base to fend for themselves. Even flying in 120 cabin crew from dub to stn each day to cover shortages on the other side of the door.

I dont have an axe to grind, but when you see a company treat people the way they do, they have reaped what they sowed. For example, a colleague broke his ankle getting off the learjet, and was off for 3 months, as a contractor got zero pay. He broke his ankle at work! not like he was skiing or doing motorsports! have some human decency!

And, I never once mentioned that I do not think they are safe.

[Chronus]

No, I wouldn`t call it Golden Handcuff. Its more like chains to shackle galley slaves to the oars.

[matt283]

Ryanair has a no pay raise policy...

There are 2 good things about the company:
- roster
- bases everywhere.

Nothing else.

[blueonblue]

The market will never again be as good for pilots as it is now, or at least there's a very low possibility of it. We are heading toward full automation of aircraft and if i were you guys (those considering signing this deal) I'd be asking for a lot more than 10k (which I'd be skeptical about ever actually seeing in a pilot's bank account) for signing up with probably the most successful airline ever in the history of airlines.

[RobsonCanolo]

I guess the training is still unpaid so the sign on bonus could be seen as simply what most other companies do paying before being productive on the line for them...

[Icanseeclearly]

Fire and brimstone

Your comment

" if the passengers walk away at the end of the flight then it officially safe"

Is truely frightening if you are a professional pilot..

I could make every approach an unstable approach yet carry out a successful landing - that is not safe. I could fly visual approaches in IMC and make a successful landing, that's not safe. ... I could, in theory, fly an entire sector upside down and land - that is not safe....

Maybe you need to have a rethink about flight safety.

I am truly flabbergasted.

(Ps that is not an anti Ryanair rant, just a concerned professional rant)

[doniedarko]

So after 20 years of having it their own way Ryanairs unimaginative and autocratic management obviously have a crewing issue to solve. I fear their 'brilliant' 10K offer will do more to spur on the experience/brain drain that is very evident over the last few years. Coupled with the cadet pilots never even making the left seat before finding better T&C's it is a problem of Ryanair's own making. Few will weep for a company that makes in excess of 1 Billion euro profit a year but offers little in the way of pensions/profit share/pay rises/Bonus/Christmas party :) to their staff. ( I believe the select few of the 'Kapo' get share deals)

[Fire and brimstone]

Fire and brimstone

Your comment

" if the passengers walk away at the end of the flight then it officially safe"

Is truely frightening if you are a professional pilot..

I could make every approach an unstable approach yet carry out a successful landing - that is not safe. I could fly visual approaches in IMC and make a successful landing, that's not safe. ... I could, in theory, fly an entire sector upside down and land - that is not safe....

Maybe you need to have a rethink about flight safety.

I am truly flabbergasted.

(Ps that is not an anti Ryanair rant, just a concerned professional rant)

I do apologise, old boy - was the irony not sufficiently strong?

:rolleyes:

You are right in your assertion that 'not crashing' does not = safety.

Safety, last time I checked, is largely assured by having a sufficient quantity of well trained, well rested pilots. An operator who also listens to concerns raised by such a group of pilots is also a great boon.

I will reduce the sarcasm level next time.

:ok:

[SliabhLuachra]

It seems like the constant insertion of twigs into the evergrowing force behind it is beginning to give way. Let's hope the dam doesn't come crashing down... Or maybe that would get Micky out of his delusional transient state.

[Icanseeclearly]

Understood fire,

Sometimes it's difficult to understand people's sentiments behind their posts as it's impossible to convey "tone"

Scary thing is there are some out there who may just think that way.....

[GScapture]

10 000€ signing "bonus" is just a joke and example for other companies how not to treat your current employees.

You will be end up spending that taxed 10k for expenses during your training and then you realize how twisted the whole company is. I honestly think that they are gaining more negative than positive things with this..

[B737C525]

Safety, last time I checked, is largely assured by having a sufficient quantity of well trained, well rested pilots

Any evidence for that assertion?

[6000PIC]

They would have to add another " 0 " to that signing bonus to get me interested.

[Start Fore]

I agree; another zero before it's even worth considering..

[poldek77]

They would have to add another " 0 " to that signing bonus to get me interested.

Here you are: 010'000 €

[Fire and brimstone]

Any evidence for that assertion?


Yes, lots - if you are being serious, and not ironic / sarcastic - perish the thought on pprune.

It is an unequivocal 'assumption' that a well rested pilot is better able to function than one who is not well rested.

If, by conventional rostering protocols you need x number of pilots, and you operate with a number lower than x, then the workforce will have to be rostered harder, affecting the first 'assumption'.

I have no idea whether the company in question has sufficient pilots, as I don't work there. I'm NOT commenting on that - or any other airline, just the maths of any given situation.

The same applies to workers in a nuclear power plant, or any business for that matter.

(Lawyers happy? Great!)

[B737C525]

F&B, I was deadly serious.

First, safety is NEVER assured. It is a label we can only apply to happy outcomes in the past. Even at the astronomical levels of successful conclusion which commercial aviation achieves, all we can ever say is that 'history teaches us that what we are about to do is very likely not to result in an undesirable outcome'.

I asked for evidence and I dare say, that you have presented opinion. I presented you with a mountain to climb, I'm afraid.

Here's why: we often forget the myriad factors which have a more profound effect than the state of the crew, because as European aircrew, they are hiding in plain sight. Give me a Boeing between Western European airports in benign weather any day, over an Antonov in storms in Nepal; the state of the crew is only one factor.

We are components in the system, nothing more. Yes, the system often blames us when things go wrong, but this is mere convenience: the weakest link in the chain fails when pressure is applied. (I often ponder AF447, TK1951, JK5022, and many other 'human error' events in which the technology had ceased to function as it should, well before the humans were challenged with rescuing the situation). But it's inverting logic to say that because we are blamed we are supreme (I appreciate you didn't make that point, but others do when rehearsing these arguments, and it doesn't hold water).

[BehindBlueEyes]

Norwegian stock prices dive on O'Leary bankruptcy comments:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/59271-norwegian-stock-prices-dive-on-oleary-bankruptcy-comments

Looks like the shares recovered by the end of trading but as referred to above, is this MOL doing his usual, no publicity is bad publicity?

[JetpoweredMigrantWkr]

A clickable link...

Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary comments on its future, Brexit, easyJet, Norwegian and bankrupt Air Berlin and Alitalia (http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/ryanair/ceo-michael-oleary-comments-on-its-future-brexit-easyjet-norwegian-bankrupt-air-berlin-alitalia/)

Maybe he is just trying to convince FR guys the 10k is a cracking deal and be lucky Ryanair will be the one surviving airline and be glad to have a job..

MOL is trying to convince experienced crews to stay. They have an ongoing issue with losing their experienced pilots. Even though the Ryan air business model is a constant training model, they cannot replace experienced pilots fast enough. That is going to be the Ryan Air Achilles heel if they want to grow. Other airlines are simply offering better T&C. MOL has cut Ryan Air's expenses so deeply that they have nowhere to go except to offer better pay to retain crews. The 10K bonus is a one-time expense and insufficient to attract what they need IMHO.

[skyloone]

I'd suggest that by the time one gets through the reported delays in the training system, post tax you'll be well out of pocket. 10k per month during training might tempt some. I'm not up to speed on current rates but I gather current gross rates offered are lower than the old Brk agency rates. If one combines increased tax compliance and general inflation together with low industry t&c's when on line FR looks worse by the day really when compared to other operators. I've spoken to a few guys at FR who've been with the company for many years who are now looking for other options. These are guys in their chosen bases on 5/4 with direct FR contracts. Given their circumstances I was initially surprised but once they explained financial and a few work issues you can see where they're coming from. Another factor adding to discontent is FR's silence on Brexit and publicly stating it will have to remove ac from the UK. No info from management on contingency plans for example UK AOC to allow continued ops, so crews starting to make their own plans. If no home base might as well make a move elsewhere seems to be the thinking. Some guys I'm told are in hold pools for up to three other airlines.

[directmisbi]

Communication manager in norwegian, Lasse Sandaker Nielsen, now confirms that over 140 pilots from ryanair have joined since january 2017:
(sorry in norwegian)

Pilotene flykter fra Ryanair til Norwegian (http://www.nettavisen.no/na24/pilotene-flykter-fra-ryanair-til-norwegian/3423370195.html)

[Bayerische]

I hear they are getting really desperate for pilots. Not surprising when you hear how staff are treated there.

The race to the bottom has hit bottom in Ryanair, I'm not really sure how the pay and conditions could get much worse considering the workload and responsibility of the job. I can safely say without exaggeration that if my situation ever forced my to look for a job in Ryanair, then I think it would be time to leave the aviation industry.

Unless the Ryanair pilots form a union then nothing will change. Easier said than done I know. Hopefully we will see more of their shiney new 737's parked up with no one to fly them, maybe then O'Leary and FR management will start to treat their crews with something more than contempt.

[UAV689]

It is staggering in this age of social media why by it is easy to speak with each other, that ryr employees do something!

And Admin! why do fr not have their own crew page on pprune! Much bigger than some of the other airlines that do!

[Burpbot]

Well paid lawyers and a bully culture that is the main reason they are perceived unsafe in the industry???

[CaptainSensible]

I think you'll find they tried with the RPG and its associated forums. This mysterely vanished with server upgrade being mentioned. The real reason is I suspect more sinister. Basically cross or upset RYR at your peril. Free speech and discussion is never anything they have bought into, more of a 19th Century thiefdom

[BluSdUp]

Remember most RYR pilots have payed to fly for RYR to skip the line.
Not union card holders most of them.

There has been efforts to make changes:
The Stansted Base Freeze is one example.
GTD (Glorified Taxi Drivers) is another.

Someone on the outside has to enlighten You on this as" I know nothing" of this. ( quote: Hogans Heroes, Sgt Shultz)

International ALPA (IFALPA) has missed the boat or flight on this one, so now its up to the market. to adjust. Wich dont work.

[babemagnet]

In my base we are getting double pay for working on a day off. They are getting desperate 👍🏻

[fr666andback]

I think you'll find they tried with the RPG and its associated forums. This mysterely vanished with server upgrade being mentioned. The real reason is I suspect more sinister. Basically cross or upset RYR at your peril. Free speech and discussion is never anything they have bought into, more of a 19th Century thiefdom


More than that! Soon after RYR thread is created, there will be “RYR discussion prohibited” message on board, just because that’s their strategy: scare everyone with legal actions.

[Burpbot]

If people stopped working for these scum bags, they would soon go bust. That would make more jobs available with decent employers ;) simple, don't join the devil then bitch about ethics!!!!

[smith]

Basically cross or upset RYR at your peril.

Can they afford to sack you when they are so short? The crew have the upper hand at the moment and should use it.