Easyjet pilot issues

[underfire]

French pilots are claiming easyJet is risking passenger and crew safety by scheduling too many flights.

Captains are being pressed into flying more hours than they are legally allowed and face intimidation if they refuse, the pilots’ union says.

In an open letter to the company’s main shareholder, Stelios Haji-Ioannou, the union says the flight schedule is “unrealistic” and has sparked numerous delays and last-minute cancellations.

“A red line has been crossed and we are very shocked,” Arnaud Wiplier, president of the easyJet section of the Syndicat National des Pilotes de Ligne (SNPL), said. “The airline has eyes bigger than its stomach; the schedules are not possible.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/15/easyjet-scheduling-flights-french-pilots

[testpanel]

French pilots are claiming..... sure...:mad:

[A320ECAM]

What's the difference between easyJet and Air France?

Flight 447. Enough said.

[tubby linton]

The European Transport Workers Federation, which in aviation mainly covers cabin crew , were very much in favour of EASA FTL, despite the pilot groups , especially Balpa and UK research on fatigue ,being against it. Are we beginning to see a wholesale rejection of them and the fly until you drop business model across Easa land? I certainly hope so.

[fab777]

According to the union, there are been threats (verbally, by phone) from the management, to force captains into going into discretion.

This is now all over the french news, so I wonder: did the management gain more by bullying crews and saving a few flights from cancellation, than they lost in PR and damage to the brand?

[Superpilot]

What's the difference between easyJet and Air France?

Flight 447. Enough said.

What are you saying here. That easyJet should continue this slave labour like abuse because they've not had an accident yet and are therefore the safer operation?

EasyJet do not do red eye trips, they do not have 3 man operations crossing ITCZs in LH aircraft with the most senior pilot being allowed to rest for up to 4 hours. This is a totally different kind of flying and the EasyJet machine would break at the first sight of having to afford crew a decent schedule involving night stops.

To make a career sustainable at EasyJet pilots are turning to 50%. "Nuff said"

[Company Message]

Especially when a base captain has sent an email to two flight deck who refused to operate into a day off of being "unprofessional" and were "expected" to.

I understand the matter has been sent to the relevant Union.

[EDDT]

What's the difference between easyJet and Air France?

Good question.
AF pilots work half and make double. That's it.

[kimono1950]

sure...:mad:

It is because of morons like you, the pseudo managers all over are doing what ever they want !:mad:

I know in Uk, you , guys , are used to bend over, but hopefully not in France.:hmm:

[A320ECAM]

What are you saying here. That easyJet should continue this slave labour like abuse because they've not had an accident yet and are therefore the safer operation?

EasyJet do not do red eye trips, they do not have 3 man operations crossing ITCZs in LH aircraft with the most senior pilot being allowed to rest for up to 4 hours. This is a totally different kind of flying and the EasyJet machine would break at the first sight of having to afford crew a decent schedule involving night stops.

To make a career sustainable at EasyJet pilots are turning to 50%. "Nuff said"

So what? Show me an easyJet pilot who has pulled back on the sidestick for nearly 4 minutes during a high altitude stall? Flight 447.

Show me an easyJet pilot who landed half way down the runway in wet and windy wxr conditions and took 12 seconds to apply reverse thrust? Flight 358.

In fact, AF have their very own page on Wikipedia for accidents and incidents. That's how many they have had! Most are due to pilot error.

easyJet don't even have an accidents and incidents section on Wikipedia.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Especially when a base captain has sent an email to two flight deck who refused to operate into a day off of being "unprofessional" and were "expected" to

Friend of mine TRE pretty well paid once said my next door neighbour goes out before me comes back after me, he's paid less and has the weight of trying to run his Company, find business and support his Staff - and he gets paid less than me.

That guy never had a problem using discretion occasionally or working into a day off with a smile.
So Company how many times has this happened to these Pilots?

[Stan Woolley]

That guy never had a problem using discretion occasionally or working into a day off with a smile.

Once again Mr Angry, I ask you:

Have you ever operated a commercial flight? :ugh:

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

Mr Angry with clearly no concept of what reality is...

[fab777]

So what? Show me an easyJet pilot who has pulled back on the sidestick for nearly 4 minutes during a high altitude stall? Flight 447.

Show me an easyJet pilot who landed half way down the runway in wet and windy wxr conditions and took 12 seconds to apply reverse thrust? Flight 358.

In fact, AF have their very own page on Wikipedia for accidents and incidents. That's how many they have had! Most are due to pilot error.

easyJet don't even have an accidents and incidents section on Wikipedia.

This one has been discussed, for instance:

https://www.aeroinside.com/item/5457/easyjet-a320-at-paphos-on-jan-7th-2015-alpha-floor-activation-on-approach

Luckily in normal law this time.

But this is off topic. Today's topic is EZY has hit the french news with:

A pilot on drugs,
Captains forced to fly overlimit.

[Nil further]

As i understand it . There is a new policy in Easyjet . If you refuse discretion, you will get a phone call from the duty pilot manager to "help you with your decision making " that will be followed with a Non flying suspension and a trip to the Chief Pilots office .

Sad times for what was once a very sensible pilot employer

[Chesty Morgan]

It's called Commander's discretion. End of meeting.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

No Base Captain would say that in writing, would he / she?

It would be forwarded to the respective union / CAA and they would have to both explain and retract the comments.
How is not exceeding a legal limit, placed there for safety purposes, in any way "unprofessional"??

F+B Depends what the Easyjet discretion policy says in the FTL scheme. Under EASA there now has to be more "guidance" assume your aware of this.

[box]

As i understand it . There is a new policy in Easyjet . If you refuse discretion, you will get a phone call from the duty pilot manager to "help you with your decision making " that will be followed with a Non flying suspension and a trip to the Chief Pilots office .

Sad times for what was once a very sensible pilot employer

That is complete nonsense. Never happened to me or others at my base.

[Nil further]

Oh no it isn't , maybe you just don't know about it yet ...... i can assure you it is and worse .
Maybe career ending for some.

This is a new policy and the buck stops i am led to believe at the desk of the ex Wizzair Chief Pilot.

Anyway , how would you know what going on at your base with every individual unless you are the BC ?

Perhaps you should ask someone in BALPA cc , they may tell you something you didn't want to hear , sadly a once reasonable pragmatic approach has given way to something else .

Im told this was the method by which Wizzair pilot were encouraged to use discretion .

[box]

Nil Further - do you work for Easyjet?

[RAT 5]

There are various TV programs that would lap this up if it were true. Careful with assertions.

[Vokes55]

Working for Easyjet appears to be like being in an abusive relationship. Everybody outside the company can see how bad it is, but their pilots are brainwashed into the 'orange' culture, thinking it's the best job in the world and that they cannot do better. Very few people leave the company, despite the fact that near enough every pilot I know in the company does nothing but complain about it, about the long 4-sector days, the delays, discretion, roster changes, minimum rest, below inflation pay increases, not allowed to swap days off, next to zero overtime opportunities.

Working for another company, I've been flying for over four years and have never even been asked to go into discretion, nor have any of my acquaintances at other companies, including Ryanair. It's only those at easyJet that seem to have this issue.

I'm sure there will be plenty of easyJet pilots ready to defend the company, which will more or less prove my point.

[OATNetjets]

I can confirm that during this summer some pressure has been received by crews on the phone during the duty, to help them make the decision to either work into their day off or exercize discretion, when this would lead to flights being cancelled.

I can also confirm the new Policy whereby a captain will have a meeting if a flight is cancelled because of his/her decision not to push beyond the limit (agreed FTLs and working into day off).

The pilot union of Easyjet pilots based in France wrote to management to require them to stop this. No answer in 3 weeks. Thus a press release was delivered to force the company to react. Well done in my opinion, as this can not become an accepted practice. Of course in the UK such action would be borderline, but it is good do see a union stand-up firmly against Something unacceptable.

Now I have heard that some meetings are to be held between the company and different unions this month. I hope common sense will prevail from management.

One last point about the title of the thread. I have seen / heard some interviews on TV with pilots from the SNPL Easyjet union: they have never said that flying with Easyjet is Dangerous. They claim it could become if pressure is exercized onto the pilots and therefore they ask upper management to react to ensure that Easyjet remains the safe airline it has always been.

[Burpbot]

I wonder about the management after the recent TV programme! The comments the "chief" pilot made about female pilots I thought wow naive at best, very offensive at worst! I would expect to be sacked for those comments, on the line let alone on TV! It was embarrassing!

[JosuaNkomo]

Nil further. What a load of :mad:

[akindofmagic]

Everybody outside the company can see how bad it is, but their pilots are brainwashed into the 'orange' culture, thinking it's the best job in the world and that they cannot do better.

Bear in my mind that easyJet in a regional/ continental base, and easyJet at Gatwick are two totally different beasts.

[Vokes55]

I can confirm that during this summer some pressure has been received by crews on the phone during the duty, to help them make the decision to either work into their day off or exercize discretion, when this would lead to flights being cancelled

Why can't the company just have enough people on standby, or offer short notice overtime opportunities, rather than cancel the flight? Everybody has a price and that price is significantly lower than 372 EU261 claims.

EasyJet are the only airline that don't seem to understand this and just cancel flights when the standby list dries up. Bullying people into going into discretion is not the answer.

[Nil further]

Load of :mad: you say ,what about the post from OATnetjets and the French pilot union letter.

Trust me,I wish it wasn't true but it is and it's going to get worse unless BALPA and the Uk pilots grow a pair and do something about it .

I repeat ,ask your BALPA if it's true that a number of UK CP have been placed on non flying suspension and disciplined for not exercising discretion.

Ask the question come back here with a simple apology rather than an insult .
You won't like what you hear though ,sad times .

[Nil further]

its a roster code NOFLY .You get it if you've been involved in a significant incident that needs investigated or a manager has deemed you to be unfit to fly until they've investigated your conduct .

It happens more than you might think .

That is "what the hell a no flying suspension is" it may not even be legal under employment law as you are effectively deemed guilty until innocent , however this is now the easyJet way .

It is worth noting that the head of the flight ops in the CAA is an ex easyjet manager , another senior manager has recently left easyjet to go there and that the flight ops inspectors that are responsible for looking after easyjet also keep their flying current (in many cases) by picking sectors to fly on easyJet aeroplanes .

[Binder]

Nil Further,

Please don't confuse matters and get your facts right.

The decision to NFLY can be taken by a Manager responsible for Safety if you file an ASR. If you 'forget' to file or were simply unaware of the circumstances then you could be NFLY'ed by a Liaison Officer. Liaison Officer's work confidentially and are completely autonomous from Management. They exist to further flight safety.They can be contacted for advice on any safety related matter and that includes issues concerning any perceived 'underhand' Management activities. Or indeed any deeply personal matter that you may not wish to discuss with your Boss, that could perhaps affect flight safety. And yes they could NFLY you as a result of such a conversation. This would be completely confidential. Even if your Boss contacts an FCLO for info' (flight crew liaison officer) he could be politely told where to go!

Now, if you cross swords with Management and say routinely refuse discretion, then you can expect questions to be asked. Nobody wants to leave 186 pax screwed down route unless there is a very good reason. But there are always a few who want to make a point. Management can also No fly you for their own non safety reasons and they are within their rights to MEET you to discuss circumstances. Is this unreasonable?

But it's recognised also that this Summer has not lived up to the many promises.Over 400 cancellations in July? (no big French ATC strikes) And engaging the troops in the right way has always been a bit of a challenge for years. Good Management does not require 'bullying'.


As for French issues this has to be taken in context. There are contractual aspects which include the legal right to refuse to work into a day off. And many do and that is their right.

It's one of the facts that needs to be understood and Managed.

You cannot run the French operation with a Luton/Gatwick mentality.

The 'Nuclear' option that SNPL took without reference to members was not
appreciated by everybody IMO.

[EGPFlyer]

If I was routinely declining to exercise discretion then the only question to be answered was 'why am I routinely being rostered into discretion?'. That is a question for the Ops dept, not the pilot.

[Enzo999]

Very good point

[Nil further]

Binder

I am quite clear in my facts .I note the liberal use of the word Boss , one of the squadron are you ?

If i follow your argument correctly ,you are saying that it is OK for management to discipline pilots who routinely refuse discretion ?

All the stuff you write about FCLO is irrelevant to this discussion .

I stand by my statement that a lamentable turn of events has occurred in easyjet where the Chief Pilot appears to have decided on a new policy of questioning pilots who refuse to operate in discretion or in some cases in to their day off .

Quite how any professional pilot (i assume you are) can come on here and defend such behaviour from a company that was until recently seen as a very decent, professional outfit by most airline pilots in the world is beyond me .

What is manifestly obvious is that the summer has been a total disaster commercially .
The money folk have leaned on the ops folks and this is the result .

It is a sad sad day for all easyJet pilots that this is what we have become and i wonder what the next tactic will be or when we will finally as a group of responsible professionals say enough is enough .

I suspect the only people who have an issue with the SNPL statement are those whose entire life ,status and persona is built around the fact they are an airline pilot accordingly any slight to that is taken as a personal insult .


"First they came for the socialists ,but i am not a socialist ......."

[Binder]

Nil Further,

If you feel FCLO's are not relevant to your post then you don't grasp all the tools that are at your disposal or how they function. Of course I don't condone the action you refer to by Management. If this is occurring then it's a very serious matter and should be booted straight to the top.

This has been another one of those Summers but despite this i've had three discretion reports to sign for. Full time roster. Less than last year.

I have been called out to cover guys/gals who were refusing possible discretion (as is their right) for duties that ultimately would not have led them into discretion. Unless it's on their last day....never called for that!

I've also wasted lots and lots of time discussing possible discretion days with crew only to find we were well within at the end of the day.

Your comment regarding SNPL is curious. I've not spoken to any colleague yet who thinks the action was appropriate. It's not the usual way here.

EGPF if I was presented with your situation then I would agree with you and pursue this through Management/SNPL

Nil Further please don't insult me I am not of the Squadron. The Light Blue 'Banter' has it's place. But not here.

[RAT 5]

Not ez specific, could be any airline. Last time I was booked in for an operation at my local hospital it was weekdays only. Last time I wanted a plumbers/electricians/doctors/gardeners visit it was weekdays only & 08.00 - 17.00. Last time I wanted a chat with a CP/HOT/CEO/MD/CFO etc it was week days only 09.00 - 17.00. No discretion on their behalf. It was a NO NO. Unavailable. Last time I wanted time off for a dentist/doctor appointment it was not allowed if it disrupted the roster pattern: use your days off. Single days off for a wedding; not allowed. single days off for a school kids performance; not allowed. etc. etc.
Reap what you sow.

If you want give & take it needs to be by both sides in both directions. It is not; so don't be surprised when someone spits the dummy. It shouldn't happen, but where is the root cause? The subject is not so simple as to have only one finger pointed in one direction.

[tubby linton]

My OMA( not Orange) says this about discretion-"The use of commander’s discretion is considered exceptional and where possible should be avoided at home base and/or company hubs.
The decision of the commander is considered as sacrosanct and ABC Airlines has adopted a non-punitive approach in dealing with discretionary events"
It is not a rostering tool and should not be used to cover up failings in the crew establishment or poor rostering. If through no fault of your own there is an incident whilst exercising it them the regulator will look at the pilot as to why he felt able to exercise it. Any supporting paperwork or telephone call from a mamager exerting pressure would obviously attract their interest and in my opinion should be subject to a disciplinary process from the AOC holder. Discretion belongs to the Captain, having consulted his crew , not some greasypole climber in an office.

[mik3bravo]

I've no doubt EZY's insurers are pouring over the posts on this thread. Will be an expensive insurance program with either their existing or other insurers if they don't unwind the behaviour. Reckless.

[RAT 5]

One problem with the definitions used in discretion extension decisions is the use of the wording. "Are all crew members fit to continue the duty beyond the FTL's?"

In other spheres the use of fatigue to call un-fit for duty is the threshold. Too tired is not enough. In the discretion extension case fatigue is not mentioned; it is fit to....
Management have the opinion that if you are not fatigued then you are fit, and you do not transition from fit to fatigued at the FTL limit. You need to make the decision, perhaps 2-3 hours in advance, how you will feel at the end of the extension. Impossible. You can only say how you feel now, and speculate. Managers don't believe you can be tired enough at end of FTL to decide accurately and so should continue as required.
What they don't have any knowledge of, nor interest in, is what duties you have worked previously, how much sleep you achieved before this one, what is your overall condition. They take it as a given that their non-fatiguing roster patterns, and your immaculate sleep management family programs, delivered you to work 100% fit & sharp. The extra mile should be taken in your stride and any refusal is tantamount to a silent strike.

That attitude needs to be addressed and changed PDQ and it will best happen from the XAA's or even EASA. Dream on.

[olster]

It would appear that easy still do not engage with the pilots in a professional manner. Having been there when there were only 8 aircraft there was always a big disconnect between the pilots and orange culture. Essentially the prevailing mentality was that the pilots were overpaid prima donnas. Plus ca change. The orange culture by the way seemed to reward 'managers' with tax free share schemes etc while shafting the pilot group. Most of the pilot group had the inate intelligence to see through the orange concept. Essentially just like Ryanair while pretending to be slightly more touchy- feely.

[Northern Monkey]

The "orange culture" can be summarised thus; Get the employees to work as hard as possible whilst at all times seeking to reduce the costs associated with them (Pretty much what every company out there wants to do all the time lets be honest). Attempt to add depth to this by printing large words on crew room walls & company literature; "Integrity", "Honesty", "Dynamic", "Pioneering" etc etc.

It always makes me smile when companies use all this corporate mumbo jumbo (which company doesn't want to profess it has integrity?!). There's often a huge disconnect between the stated culture and the actual culture.

It's hardly limited to easyJet either. There are few companies that, behind closed doors, really commit to their lofty principles and mission statements.

[Fursty Ferret]

Especially when a base captain has sent an email to two flight deck who refused to operate into a day off of being "unprofessional" and were "expected" to.

^^ Poster above unlikely from EasyJet, who don't use the words "flight deck" to describe their flight crew.

[EGPFlyer]

^^ Poster above unlikely from EasyJet, who don't use the words "flight deck" to describe their flight crew.

Yes they do, it's a fairly common term in easyjet (granted it's mostly the phrase that the cabin crew use for pilots)

[Company Message]

Fursty Ferret, the poster to whom you refer was alluding to my post. I DO work for easyJet.

[RAT 5]

Olster is spot on. Your post suggests you've left. I found the same, and left. It is astonishing that the same BS is still being pedalled. One reason I left was because it was such BS. All that was before BALPA, and they should have opened the flight crews' eyes to the truth & reality. Of course, the whole Orange touchy feely thing was dreamt up by the office whallas, and it is in their interest to keep it alive; they prosper from it. All it is, is an abuse of the vocational workers i.e. the engineers & flight crew. Sad it has survived for so long. Like much BS in so many airlines it is frustrating that no-one, not enough, has stood up and screamed "the emperor has no clothes".

Over an interesting and varied career it is disappointing to reflect back and realise how many outfits I worked for where the repeated cry was, "it could be so great here if they just fixed A & B; and it would be so easy and for free." They didn't & I moved on to the same greener grass slowly turning brown. It's not just ez it's nearly the whole industry. They shall reap what they sowed.

[olster]

Cheers Rat5 I concur completely!

[Old King Coal]

RAT 5:Over an interesting and varied career it is disappointing to reflect back and realise how many outfits I worked for where the repeated cry was, "it could be so great here if they just fixed A & B; and it would be so easy and for free." They didn't & I moved on to the same greener grass slowly turning brown. It's not just ez it's nearly the whole industry. They shall reap what they sowed.

Hear, hear, and ain't that the truth !

[Stan Woolley]

Cheers Rat5 I concur completely!

I do too. Well said Rat.

Hi Olster! :ok:

[judge11]

Of course RAT5 is correct in his assertions and I'd suggest that 99% of crew who still do the daily job of getting aircraft from A to b would agree without reservation.

However, given the huge potential power that we, the pilot workforce, could exert over airline management, what have 'we' done about ever-eroding terms and conditions and bonus-targeted managers who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing?

The answer, of course, is nothing because management have always either managed to 'divide and rule' or played the 'economic ruin' card while still managing to sustain their champagne lifestyle. Until such time as crew, and particularly in the UK, unite along the lines of a union like Vereinigung Cockpit, nothing is going to change.

[Denti]

Until such time as crew, and particularly in the UK, unite along the lines of a union like Vereinigung Cockpit, nothing is going to change.

Interesting that you mention VC in this thread, especially given the fact that Easyjet pilots in germany are not represented by VC but rather by the cabin crew and ground staff union ver.di instead. Which does not collaborate with ECA nor IFALPA or any other pilot union of course.

[olster]

Greetings Stan - hope that you are well. Who could forget the (in)famous orange culture. You play ball with us and we stick the bat up your @rse. Two outstanding memories "you are lucky to be working for easyJet" having bizarelly left one of the uk's more famous airlines as a TRE and also the legendary "are you refusing this duty?" Oh, and I almost forgot " we are reporting you to management". The manager concerned was a friend and completely concurred with a decision to go home rather than sit all day @ snow bound Luton. Farce and high comedy abounded. The hilarious misuse of management speak - silos, synergies, etc.All absolute bollox of course and still going on! Large ones all round.

[Stan Woolley]

also the legendary "are you refusing this duty?"

Yes, 'stroppy' guys like us heard that a fair bit once we'd realised how one sided the 'favours' were. :rolleyes:

It's no surprise but rather sad that it's still going on, almost twenty years later.

All the Best Olster.

[IcePack]

The thing is that it is fellow pilots that have instigated the commercial pressure, within the airlines. Back in the day Chief pilots would have protected the crews not as now applying the pressure. They are not honourable men/women.

[RAT 5]

I have worked for a coupe of CP's who behaved as "Chief of the Pilots". OK, they had other financial & standards responsibilities, but at the crunch, when the CFO of MD tried to screw his boys he stood up and resisted. Might not always win, but he tried and perhaps softened whatever bulldozer & scalpel operation was being planned from on high. Huge respect was earned and rewarded when the extra mile was asked for. Outside of them i've experienced very little support of the pilots from CP's; generally the opposite. 'Feathering one's own nest' often comes to mind. I wish some them could still fly; but perhaps because they can't they restrict the rest of us from doing so.

[FoxChaRomeo]

The Ezy CP does still fly, albeit even after nigh on a year in the job(?) he retains his *** (an inexperience identifier, for those readers outside Ezyworld) so he doesn't need to go anywhere too complicated, nor fly with any of the newbie FOs....

Draw your own conclusions.

[Contact Approach]

The French just like to whinge...

[olster]

The French are very entitled to whinge when it comes to the ludicrous orange culture. In terms of cp currency I rest my case...toujors la meme chose as we cunny linguists would say. Apologies for arcane sens d' humour...

[box]

The French, the Italians, the Germans, 🙄