Easyjet pilot flies high

[atakacs]

Sorry can't find an english link: (http://www.20minutes.fr/monde/2113719-20170804-pilote-easyjet-consommateur-ecstasy-ecope-12-mois-prison-sursis)

A French Easyjet pilot sentenced to one year suspended sentence for flying while being under the influence of.... ecstasy (and a lifetime ban from the profession).

To be honest I think he gets off lightly.

[crewmeal]

I wonder if that'll feature in the up and coming ITV series about Easy pilots.

[beamender99]

Google search for- easyjet pilot guilty ecstasy - finds reports of the event.
The Google translation indicates longer term involvement. Very sad for all.

The 49-year-old man "with impeccable service," ( father of three children) said, had taken ecstasy the day before a flight and had felt badly in control of the aircraft.

[Bigpants]

Shame but drug/drink dependency in commercial pilots not unusual, it is a stressful job.

[ExXB]

Is it really up to the courts to impose a life-time ban? Such punishment is a disincentive to having him become clean.

Aviation regulators are better able to determine if an individual is safe to fly. Imposing a (self-funded) requirement for regular blood tests, for example, would serve equally well to keep passengers safe.

I'm not saying punishment is not appropriate, it is. But the objective should be to change behaviour.

[atakacs]

I would agree with you on that one - I guess the ban is only for France ?

[Basil]

Shame but drug/drink dependency in commercial pilots not unusual, it is a stressful job.
I don't think so and I thought most of the stress was generated by a small percentage of crewmembers who were just the sort you meet anywhere who have an innate talent for making life difficult.

[White Knight]

I would tend to agree with you there!

[fab777]

The exact sentence is one year suspended jail sentence plus forbidden from flying as a commercial pilot for life.

Not so light a punishment for a recreational user.

[G-CPTN]

Do you think he had loss-of-licence insurance?

[RAT 5]

Does a court have that power? Is it not the local CAA who controls the issue of licences? The court could recommend, but can they remove, permanently. Hell, sporting culprits only get 3 years ban, and then they are back on the gravy train. This guy has a family to feed. Would a car driver, after a crash, be banned for life? This guy didn't crash or harm anybody. He's being hung drawn & quartered for a potential smash up. Fair enough he's whipped and flogged and sent to the clinic; but life?

[G-CPTN]

From (and more at):- Easyjet pilot high on ecstasy banned from flying (https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Easyjet-pilot-high-on-ecstasy-banned-from-flying).

[Kewbick]

Some employers would send him to re-hab on their tab, and then reinstate him
for a probationary period.

[MungoP]

Stress is no excuse..We've all suffered from it. If you can't deal with it get out of it.. there are other ways of making a living.

[45989]

The only sensible post here!

[tubby linton]

Was there any question as to whether he had been part of the supply chain or was he just a consumer?

[m0nkfish]

Does a court have that power? Is it not the local CAA who controls the issue of licences? The court could recommend, but can they remove, permanently. Hell, sporting culprits only get 3 years ban, and then they are back on the gravy train. This guy has a family to feed. Would a car driver, after a crash, be banned for life? This guy didn't crash or harm anybody. He's being hung drawn & quartered for a potential smash up. Fair enough he's whipped and flogged and sent to the clinic; but life?

There is no excuse for taking ecstasy and then flying a passenger plane with 180 people on board. 'sporting culprits' get away with it because they are not putting other peoples lives at risk. Ecstasy is illegal, even if you don't pilot an airliner. This guy got off lightly IMHO and the fact he has a family to feed does not come into it. He will have to find a way to feed them with a different profession and I'm sure he will manage that; the fare paying public will be better off as well.

If you believe he is being hung drawn and quartered for 'a potential smash up' then I hope you are one of the people who sit in the back of the plane and not the front.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The man was an idiot of extreme proportion and deserves what he gets.

[Joe_K]

Does a court have that power? Is it not the local CAA who controls the issue of licences? The court could recommend, but can they remove, permanently.

AFAIK the court did not revoke his licence, they banned him from exercising his profession (i.e. working as a commercial pilot). Slight difference. Under French law you can be banned from working in whatever job you were working as a complementary sentence to a criminal conviction.

[Bill Macgillivray]

I have to say that I think that the Court was right. We have all suffered a vast range of various types of stress in the profession and, generally, have coped! The suggestion that there was an involvement in a chain does not sit well, I am afraid. He is (was) a professional pilot!!

[G-CPTN]

AFAICT, the subject of this thread admitted to flying when under the influence.

Most alcohol cases are detected before the subject takes control of the aircraft.

How many times has the Easy guy operated when 'stoned'?

[Joe_K]

He was caught on a wiretap complaining to his dealer about the side effects of a particular ecstasy pill, which made him break out in sweats and behave erractically during an approach. He's admitted to regular use of cocaine, MDMA and cannabis over the previous 18 months.

Before becoming a pilot he worked as a stock trader...

[G-CPTN]

Why were there no tests that would have identified his 'use' before he was 'caught'?

Is it so easy to avoid detection?

[MungoP]

In my 25+ yrs as a professional pilot I was never once subjected to a random drug or alcohol test. After the initial pre-employment tests the issue simply disappeared.

[A Squared]

WHile I'm not condoning nor excusing the behavior how may times a day is a plane landed by a pilot who's got the sweats and shakes from a drinking bout the previous night? I'd venture to say "many"

[OvertHawk]

A Squared.

That's probably true, but, in case you've been asleep for the last 40 years, that's not supposed to happen either!!!!! :ugh:

[LLuCCiFeR]

WHile I'm not condoning nor excusing the behavior how may times a day is a plane landed by a pilot who's got the sweats and shakes from a drinking bout the previous night? I'd venture to say "many"
How many times are pilots flying 'drunk' due to fatigue?

[4468]

While I'm not condoning nor excusing the behavior how may times a day is a plane landed by a pilot who's got the sweats and shakes from a drinking bout the previous night? I'd venture to say "many"
As far as UK carriers are concerned, I would say virtually never! Where have you been these last 20 years?

I would say these days there's a fair chance of being caught, and if caught, a virtual certainty of a custodial sentence!

There's also a custodial sentence awaiting any captain who knowingly allows any of his/her crew to operate whilst anything less than 100% sober.

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

Well it's possible to be suffering the after effects while still registering zero. Hangover, bad nights sleep, headaches and shakes etc.

[A Squared]

Yes, that was what I was referring to, a BAC which had returned to effectively zero, but still hung over.

[Coltishall. loved it]

How things have changed? Most VC-10 pilots in the 70-80 90's
may have had a tad too many? "but I'm still here"

[TRF4EVR]

Christ on the cross people, this isn't a couple too many the night before, dude was on ecstacy. Now I'm sure none of you ever used x in your college years or anything like that (and of course, neither did I), but I'm uh told that if you had you'd know that the next day is not a time to get out of bed, let alone operate an aviation appliance.

[Carbon Bootprint]

aviation appliance Nice. Can I copyright that?

I've never done ecstasy or the like but I can agree I wouldn't be that happy with a pilot that was under the influence of something of that sort.

[mini]

Not so light a punishment for a recreational user.

My bold, ?

This man chose to operate a revenue flight, while under the influence of an illegal, self selected, non prescribed drug.

He made his bed, he can now lie on it. He knew the rules.

His rehabilitation is another issue, I'd suspect in this case it's for someone other than his employer.

Anything other than zero tolerance would destroy public confidence, and that of the existing workforce.

[His dudeness]

Anything other than zero tolerance would destroy public confidence, and that of the existing workforce.

Would it ? If so, so what ? They wouldn´t fly no more ? Unlikely....

Whilst being a teetotaler and not a drug user myself, I don´t see this sentence to be the least bit fair. There is no way back for this guy and that is NOT okay. Give him a sentence and then - when sober for X-moths/years - allow him back. Testing is available.

[G-CPTN]

How would you deal with someone who stole from the company, or assaulted a fellow employee (maybe sexually) or had 'paedophile' photographs?

Could they be re-rehabilitated and re-employed after treatment?

[ExXB]

G-CPTN, perhaps. It certainly depends on the circumstances and the individuals. I suppose the question is should we attempt to rehabilitate offenders? At least to give offenders a way back.

Punishment is necessary and appropriate, and I don't think anyone here is saying it isn't. But is a life-time ban on commercial flying necessary and appropriate? Perhaps for some individuals but I would be happier if professionals were determining his suitability for commercial flying rather than the court.

[MungoP]

Why should he be banned from acting as a commercial pilot ?
Pour l'encouragement des autres.

He was a stock trader before.. he can find work elsewhere. He betrayed a trust.

[.Scott]

Was there any question as to whether he had been part of the supply chain or was he just a consumer?In this case, his role as consumer is the key issue. If he was "only" a supplier, it would have had far less impact on flight safety.

As far as stress is concerned, stress is a discomfort that compels us to think about conflicting priorities. For pilots, these bear directly on how we balance flight safety with all of our other life issues.

The fact that flying is stressful is not an excuse for getting high. Quite the opposite, it is a key reason that getting high is incompatible with being a pilot.

For some people, once they have started relieving their stress chemically, it becomes a very tempting method of "resolving" any stressful problem. Regardless of whether this condition is treated or not, over years and decades, the most likely result is things like divorce, financial ruin, and suicide.

Certainly any public court judge is very familiar with this - and I have no doubt that this is what the judge had in mind when he prohibited the pilot from continuing his occupation. It's not a issue of punishment, just one of making sure that this pilot didn't take anyone down with him.

[WillowRun 6-3]

Regardless of prevalence, or what extent of prevalence, of pilots operating hung-over from alcoholic beverages (though technically compliant with BAC levels) in the past, times change. Just have a quick read of Chair Hersman's separate statement in the Colgan Air NTSB Report, in which she points out how alcohol use once upon a time was not regarded the same way as it is today (in the course of advocating for greater recognition of fatigue as a contributing factor). But about the penalty meted out to a chemically-impaired pilot: the court was quite correct in my view to throw the heaviest volume or tome available at the man. Let him go get rehabilitated and prove he is worthy of reconsideration at some undefined and unspecified point down the road, way down that road. It's a perhaps biblical view; if he were to want to be entrusted again, alright, go work clean and sober and get tested for seven years, and come back with valid documentation proof. And then we'll tell you how many more years you have to conduct that little proof of character exercise before you strap on a commercial jet transport category aircraft appliance again.

[Contact Approach]

Wonder if he requested FLeuphoria.

[His dudeness]

He was a stock trader before.. he can find work elsewhere.

So if he had no previous employment, then...?

He betrayed a trust.

What trust are you talking about ? You ever got a speeding ticket ? If so, you broke the bloody law ! Just as this dude did.

Pour l'encouragement des autres.

The little experience I have with drug offenders tells me, that if you are a druggie, a proposed sentence means nothing to you - to the best of my knowledge thats part of the very definition of an addict - that you just don´t care any more.

[Radgirl]

A court hearing, possibly of several days, is reported by a hack in a few lines. I suggest we should tread warily before commenting

However

The issue is he took a drug that had an effect on his flying. For all we know, and on the balance of probability given that he was an habitual user of illicit drugs, he often took such drugs which wore off before he flew or had no appreciable effect. It may well be, as often happens with such illegally produced substances, that this one time the drug had an unexpected effect or duration - clearly it was unusual as he was texting about it.

IMHO his aviation 'crime' was taking any drug without declaring and grounding himself initially - it matters not to me whether it was penicillin or ecstacy. But that should be what he is punished for. To remove someone's career when another person might get away with a warning is not appropriate.

As more such drugs become legal in more countries this is an issue the profession and the medical profession will need to address. How many pilots legally smoke cannabis in Colorado and fly the next day? Do they disclose to their AME? Should they?

[Chronus]

A few years back there was the case of the pot-puffing Horizon Air pilot. The airline fired him and his union took the matter to arbitration and got a favourable ruling with an order that he be allowed to return to work. I don`t know whether the airline appealed this decision.

[Joe_K]

IMHO his aviation 'crime' was taking any drug without declaring and grounding himself initially - it matters not to me whether it was penicillin or ecstacy. But that should be what he is punished for. To remove someone's career when another person might get away with a warning is not appropriate.

Might be useful to note that he was not caught for an "aviation crime" as such, he was caught by police who were investigating a drug dealing ring, due to him telephoning a dealer complaining about side effects of ecstacy in the cockpit. And because it was part of a drug dealing investigation the chap ended up in front of a High Court (Tribunal de grande instance) and they promptly convicted him for "mise en danger de la vie d'autrui" which translates into "endangering the lives of others". And as part of that they have the power to prevent the convicted from exercising the profession in which he's endagered the lives of others. If he'd been a bus driver he'd been banned from driving busses. But he was NOT convicted under whatever French law bans pilots from doing drugs or alcohol X hours before flying...

[funfly]

Shame but drug/drink dependency in commercial pilots not unusual.

Well, I bloody well hope it is unusual. This isn't the 1940s lads all gung ho and all that.

[smith]

Ecstasy would not be the drug of choice for stress. It would make your heart pound even harder and make you more excitable and anxious. This guy was not using it to combat stress he was using it for a recreational high although he seemed to be using it regularly while on the flight deck. Someone said he was only a recreational user and the consequences would have been less if he was only involved in supplying the class A, it actually appears that he was in fact no a recreational but habitual user and the legal consequences would definitely included a custodial sentence if he was convicted of supplying.

[J.O.]

If you've never been truly addicted to something, then you can't possibly appreciate what this man has gone through. Hence I won't be commenting on his punishment. I only hope he finds a way to get - and stay - sober.

[PA28161]

If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, don't go in there!! SIMPLES

Shame but drug/drink dependency in commercial pilots not unusual, it is a stressful job.

[Reverserbucket]

Originally Posted by Bigpants http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/597930-easyjet-pilot-flies-high-post9852620.html#post9852620)
Shame but drug/drink dependency in commercial pilots not unusual, it is a stressful job.I would disagree that drug dependency is not unusual - as I said in a previous post, over the past 25 years I can recount only one drug related event among anyone I was aware of although it may be simply that as detection improves, the statistics increase. Although neither drink nor drugs are compatible with flying, as has been said, alcohol has long been the accepted choice of many as a way of winding down at the end of the day, as in other occupations, and in moderation, with sufficient separation between flying duties, should be no problem.
If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, don't go in there!! SIMPLESBut it's not quite that simple(s); airline flying itself is not particularly stressful but the multitude of stressful events triggered by antisocial roster patterns, missed birthdays/Christmas/anniversaries, partners who believe your working life is spent in the bunk/swimming pool/on a beach when in fact you're trying to recover from FTL induced fatigue in a hotel room etc can lead to problems in a way that is perhaps different to many other occupations. Most airline pilots are familiar with AIDS (Airline Induced Divorce Syndrome) and the attitude of many is to kick the tyres and get on with it whilst at work - suppressing the stress that is gradually building to the point where things really go wrong.

I'm not suggesting that this guy was suffering in this way but there is a lot of this type of behaviour in flying and any pilot who believes they are not susceptible to the sometimes emotional torture of balancing a job you love with a family you love is in denial.

[pilotmike]

I would disagree that drug dependency is not unusual
Ain't that not unwittingly a triple negative?

[Reverserbucket]

Yeah, you're right - it's these new antidepressants playing havoc with my grammar :}

What I meant to say was that I don't think drug dependency is common among airline pilots. Not in the EU at least.

[VS-Toga]

If you've never been truly addicted to something, then you can't possibly appreciate what this man has gone through. Hence I won't be commenting on his punishment. I only hope he finds a way to get - and stay - sober.

Jeepers; frankly I couldn't give a damn about appreciating 'what he's been through.'

He needs to take control and only he can do that.

The fact is he's a duty of care, legal and moral, and he failed it abysmally.

I'd have had no problem with 5 or 10 years for endandering life.

EZY's PR team appear to have done a great job hushing this one up.

[.Scott]

If you've never been truly addicted to something, then you can't possibly appreciate what this man has gone through. Hence I won't be commenting on his punishment. I only hope he finds a way to get - and stay - sober.I'm really unclear on the point you're making. Are you saying that he has suffered enough?
The judge has set up a situation where the guy will never fly as a pilot without going back to court and convincing the judge that there is no longer a significant public safety issue. This has nothing to do with "what this man has gone through".

This situation does not inspire anger in me - just determination. And I suspect those were the judge's feeling as well.

Perhaps it is the expressions of anger that you object to?

[Radgirl]

It is highly unlikely this was a case of addiction. Ecstasy is rarely addictive and I doubt anyone could fly on it long term. This is far more likely a case of recreational drug taking that went wrong on one occasion. He took it too late or got a dodgy tablet. It is on that assumption I question the probity of the sentence and wonder if this is a wake up call to the industry at a time when drug decriminalisation is gathering steam and misguided political interference is actually increasing new unpredictable compounds.

[.Scott]

It is highly unlikely this was a case of addiction. Ecstasy is rarely addictive and I doubt anyone could fly on it long term. This is far more likely a case of recreational drug taking that went wrong on one occasion.The information originally turned up in a conversation with drug dealers that was recorded by the police. Later the pilot admitted using the Ecstasy as well as other drugs.
easyJet pilot admits flying plane a day after he took ecstasy, struggling to land (http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/pilot-flew-plane-the-day-after-taking-ecstasy-court-hears/news-story/0a90f0203e74db876f3455bfafb08253)
In a conversation with members of a drugs ring, he allegedly said: “I had the sweats, I wasn’t feeling well. I was just doing any old thing as we came in for landing.”
Cops recording the drug gang’s actions heard the pilot talk about landing the plane at Paris’ Orly Airport in May this year — a day after he had taken a third of an ecstasy pill.
The pilot told the court he had been confident the side effects of the Class A drug would have worn off “after two hours”.
Admitting he would also take cocaine and cannabis on nights out in Paris, the pilot said he usually had two or three clean days before flying.
3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, "Ecstacy") is not physically addictive and is considered moderately psychologically addictive.
Per the wiki article: Desired effects include increased empathy, euphoria, and heightened sensations. When taken by mouth, effects begin after 30–45 minutes and last 3–6 hours.
It causes the release of serotonin and the 6 hour limit is associated with the brain simply running out of serotonin - and thus the recreational effects end. Other effects continue for 24 to 48 hours.

[IcePack]

I wonder often about "stress" within the pilot profession. Back in the day it was the norm to retire to the pub get "bladderd" talk about your day & retire to bed. Wakeing up a few hours later & doing it again. I heard of very few (maybe one) pilots being off with stress. Now it is the norm for an airline to have 4to6 out of 400 off at any one time, with stress. So was alcohol abuse the safety valve. Now alcohol use is a career limiting substance, "so" are drugs now being used. By the way I have known many who say our profession is not stressful only to watch them exhibit the classic signs & the odd one having a mental breakdown.

[Herod]

watch them exhibit the classic signs & the odd one having a mental breakdown.

Yep. Been there, done that.

[ATCO1962]

We wouldn't be having this conversation if we all just played by the rules and, in this case , the rules are straightforward and simple. Don't ever put yourself in a place where your use/abuse of any substance can endanger the people you are paid to serve. Expect harsh punishment if you do try to skirt those sensible rules. And, yes, I come from a family where addiction has done its worst and I am still in favour of harsh punishments because we need to think of others and not just our momentary pleasures.

[smith]

The fact is, taking drugs in itself is illegal, and most sane people know this. Deliberately taking drugs while flying is unforgiveable. (according to the telephone recording he said they didn't give him the same feeling on approach so he must have been doing regularly).

[Dunhovrin]

Shame but drug/drink dependency in commercial pilots not unusual, it is a stressful job.
Stats? Data? Facts?

Or..

How the eff did you come up with that one, chum?

[angels]

EZY's PR team appear to have done a great job hushing this one up.

Hushing it up? It's being discussed here and elsewhere.

Let's face it, a PR team is hardly likely to send a press release out along the lines of, "EZ are proud to announce one of their pilots has been banned for taking drugs," are they?

Does anyone know what would happen if a pilot goes to management and says I'm knocking back Class As like there's no tomorrow. Help!"?

If the pilot is just tinned, what's the incentive to try and get clean?

[Bearcat]

I don't think so and I thought most of the stress was generated by a small percentage of crewmembers who were just the sort you meet anywhere who have an innate talent for making life difficult.
Well said Basil. Sums it up. There's always the chosen few in all walks of life that screw it up

[Thomas coupling]

He has (had) two problems:
The taking of illegal drugs and betraying the trust of his passengers and employer.

I would have given him 6 months conditional discharge for taking ecstacy.
I would have given him a life time ban from flying commercially again for betraying his passengers and colleagues and putting them in danger.

It's the psychological bit I would need to protect the public from.
This man has no consideration for others as he pursues his quest for satisfaction - to the extent that he is quite happy to put everyone around him in harms way to achieve his selfish aims. This is why the judge did what he/she needed to do

[Bull at a Gate]

One of the many problems with MDMA (ecstasy) is that you can't buy a measured dose of the drug from your local pharmacist. Each pill he took would have had vastly a different quantity of MDMA in it, and who knows what else!

MDMA is, as others have said, not a terribly addictive drug, but even if it were and he is deserving of sympathy because of his addiction, it was his choice to fly after using the drug.

I don't care how many pills he takes, I just care that he flew after he took them.

[Snoop]

After seeing the effects of drink and drugs first hand for many nights of my early working life, I could rant on this topic for ages.

However it can be broken down to :-

Basic personal freedom. What you do in your home is up to you providing you are not harming anyone else physically or mentally.

If you are still under the influence or are suffering from the after effects of what ever you have done, then driving your car let alone operating an aircraft, is wrong.

The airline business in Europe has been very good at self monitoring. The peer system has worked well so far. We had a crew member who started turning up to work regularly smelling of booze. He was quietly side lined by one of our senior crew members and aided in finding help. No stigma, no official management involvement, press, police etc.

As for this guy, well if what was said is true, he was deliberately flying whilst under the influence for the experience of being high whilst flying. If that is indeed the case you can't really argue any extenuating factors for that. For his own personal satisfaction, he was prepared to operate an aircraft whilst being under the effects of a drug. In this degraded state he was willing to accept the trust of his passengers that he was fit to operate. This man has betrayed the trust of his profession, colleagues and passengers.

Having said all this, fatigue anyone?