Joining Ryanair

[brklyyn]

Dear all,
I have been offered a position to join FR. And would appreciate some information about ground school (operator conversion course) and line training?
FO with over 3000 hours, how many legs to be expected? Any tips for the course?
All the best,

[Vokes55]

An FO with over 3000 hours joining Ryanair? You must've been desperate.

Expect the minimum amount of sectors to get you onto the line, followed by 100 hours every 28 days for the rest of your career. You'll get four days off per week, but make sure you have a second phone, otherwise you'll be woken up at 5am every day by them begging for you to work your day off (for no extra money).

Oh, and if you don't answer your phone, you'll be taken off the roster and face disciplinary action.

Good luck! ;)

[highfive]

When I read this post , there's an Ad for Emirates under it . Ironically, its Another gash outfit rostering a fatiguing 100 hour per 28 days.

Seems hobsons choice for the young & uninitiated. Or Davey Jones locker.

[Mach81]

With those hours your probably better of at the red/silver lot. Less work,more money......and crew water!

Plenty of of guys (everyone!)jumping over from the blue/yellow at the moment......

[Vokes55]

On the plus side, you'll be the most experienced FO in the company. Everyone else is forced into a command they aren't ready for at about 2700 hours. Enjoy having somebody with fewer hours than you preaching the 'Ryanair way' that they've had drilled into them during their three year long career.

I'm sure you'll also enjoy being told you cannot have the air conditioning on whilst it's 36 degrees outside, as your 25 year old captain wants to save 20kg of fuel and move a spot higher on the fuel league table.

[EFISchap]

Good question

[111boy]

you have to laugh, no one is listening or learning

[sirfly]

I applied maybe 2-3 yrs ago .
None rated DEC. EASA 5000++ hrs command , inc Boeing widebody. No reply or acknowledgement. About a year later, got an email :" Are you still interested , or else we will remove your details?"

What Jokers. Think it was
McGinley.

[Vokes55]

What crap is that midnight_cruiser?

[brklyyn]

Great hehe. I am aware am not joining a utopian company... just wanna go and fly and come back home. Any one who's actually in the company?

[FWIflyer]

Do they offer you the base you want with a Ryanair contract ? If yes, why not...

If it's a McGinley contract, stay away !

A lot of people are leaving for Channex or Nor shuttle... So try and then leave :}

[Vokes55]

It does amuse me that on this forum, anybody who says something that somebody doesn't agree with automatically becomes a 'troll'. Nothing I've said is untrue or didn't/doesn't happen.

If your 'base captain' (usually a borderline autistic company man, who took the job with the dream of a desk in Swords with his name on it) calls you on your day off, probably to discuss why you didn't do an RVSM check on a flight three months ago, you're expected to answer the phone - as the ops manual states that you 'report to your base captain'.

It happened.

Best advice on this thread is those who've suggested joining Jet2 instead. I'm not one of them, but those who did are all fairly satisfied with their choice. Ryanair is an airline run by bullies, who have no respect for our profession. They are the pioneers behind the tumbling T&Cs across the industry. The only way this is ever going to change is if seats in the pointy end cannot be filled.

[Mach81]

Most of what is said is true..just ask someone who has been booted out of LTN recently using the "matrix" system.....then wonder why they are sending two blokes over from STN every week because they are now under crewed over there.

Walk into security....Jet2 crew laughing, Joking all looking pristine in the company provided uniform looking forward to a nice 2 sector day as a "team" and free tea/coffee and water when getting on the aircraft... Followed by a bloke in builders boots, yellowing shirt and no tie, flight bag full to the brim with an old Sprite bottle to fill up from the tap in the crew room, his screw top mug and a ZipLoc bag full of tea bags, not talking to his colleagues enroute to the crew room to do another 12 hour 4 sector day with a bunch of people that probably don't speak the same language....and wondering why he is doing this for less money then the jet2 pilot....

[samca]

Recommend you to read this post

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/593947-ryanair-experienced-pilot.html

[LMX]

Please ignore the trolls. It is fair from a Utopian place to work. Realistically the base and contract type you prefer will determine if it's a good fit for your.

The only reasonable reply in this thread so far! :ok:

[Vokes55]

When you do get your command, you'll be sent to Marrakech, Timisoara, Brindisi or another one of Ryanair's fabulous bases. But don't worry, it's "only" for two years, before you "might" be offered a base back at home (you mentioned you want to be at home every night, and I assume 'home' is in the UK).

Two years doing four Italian domestic flights per day, five days a week whilst your wife and kids forget what you look like, your stress levels go through the roof and you become fatigued from the long commutes across the Ryanair network. But don't worry about that, just call fatigued - not only will you get out of a day's duty, you'll also get out of two further days when they send you to Dublin to explain why you're the first person in the company to call fatigued this year (also happened).

What Mach81 said is, unfortunately, very accurate. Your colleagues in Ryanair will actively look the opposite way as you pass them in Stansted. Your cabin crew will be experts in Boxer Chips and Product of the Week, but if you ask them what they'd do in the event of a depressurisation, the answer may shock you. But that's not their fault, if they don't meet their unrealistic sales targets, they also get sent to Dublin to explain themselves.

I accompanied two colleagues on three separate disciplinary meetings at HQ, and each time there was around 20-30 employees waiting their turn. There's a reason why around 1000 pilots and over 1500 cabin crew (as of April 17) leave the airline every year.

[maggot738]

Believe very little of what you read on this thread. Most of them are trolls at best. To answer your questions
1) If you are rated and attending an OCC course then most of these, ground course and simulator, seem to be completed in EMA.
2) Line training could be at any base where available LTC's are. The training is the best I have seen (and for the trolls out there I have been flying for 35 years and worked for several reputable airlines and have over 25,000 hours) For an OCC F/O you can expect about 40 sectors line training but this will depend on individual experience and ability, could be less or it could be more.
3) Following your line check and assuming a successful outcome you will usually be sent to your designated base
4) Expect to fly between 750 to 900 hours per year
5) To prepare study hard and know your stuff just like with every othere airline.
And after nearly 14 years here I have never personally heard of anyone being disciplined for simply not answering their phone on a day off.
Hope this helps

[Vokes55]

And after nearly 14 years here I have never personally heard of anyone being disciplined for simply not answering their phone on a day off.

Well I have heard of it. But I'm not going to call you a troll because of it.

As I said, around 1000 leave per year. There has to be a reason for that. I commend you for your management propaganda, but we are not 'trolls', most of us are pilots that have been through the Ryanair sausage factory, and then joined a proper airline.

[pudoc]

Walk into security....Jet2 crew laughing, Joking all looking pristine in the company provided uniform looking forward to a nice 2 sector day as a "team" and free tea/coffee and water when getting on the aircraft... Followed by a bloke in builders boots, yellowing shirt and no tie, flight bag full to the brim with an old Sprite bottle to fill up from the tap in the crew room, his screw top mug and a ZipLoc bag full of tea bags, not talking to his colleagues enroute to the crew room to do another 12 hour 4 sector day with a bunch of people that probably don't speak the same language....and wondering why he is doing this for less money then the jet2 pilot....

The most accurate post on this thread. What an awful place to work. Those who don't realise it probably haven't worked for any other airline before.

[Martin_123]

Well I have heard of it.

what would really help your argument is if you would talk from your own experience, and not repeat something you have heard. Have you actually worked for Ryanair, if so, for how long? Have you actually been disciplined for something, if so - for what?

There are some very opinionated folk out there, I met a Portuguese guy recently who was accusing Ryanair for firing young FO's just as they reach 200 hours on type - claimed it was their business to sell people TRs and what have you, because he and his mates all got dumped.. I didn't have to dig long or far to find out he was fired because he was rubbish and there were no mates in a similar situation..

[Mach81]

I did 15 years in........so know a thing or two about it. This whole myth about "the best training" used to be true until about two years ago when they got desperate, good trainers got burnt out and gave up, good TREs didn't fly, so gave up. Both to be replaced with anyone that would volunteer, including a few famous faces who shouldn't have even been captains in the first place. The same now goes for the quality of the new intake cadets, in my day 50 odd sectors and you were done, now I hear some do over a 100 sectors just to be released to the line (which really means the LTC can't be arsed anymore and signs them off, as they will get a call from EMT if they don't). The quality is extremely poor,mainly being the language barrier, its embarrassing when you hear some of them on the radio! There is so many other jobs out there for anyone with a bit of experience, and it's proving to be problematic for them!

And as far as points 3 and 4 are concerned, your management pep talk doesn't wash with anyone that actually worked there -

3) Following your line check and assuming a successful outcome you will usually be sent to your designated base
4) Expect to fly between 750 to 900 hours per year

Designated base = wherever they want! (Not home)

And 750 hrs a year? More like 899.9, especially now as they are extremely short! It's ok though, they only got 3 ad hoc days leave allocated this year.......

[EFISchap]

23 replies and only one relevant to the original question..

[Luibar]

It seems that Ryanair will be running roadshows in Brazil in August...

[Lepo]

Correct. They'll come to Rio and Sao Paulo looking for DEC only (no Direct Entry FO).

Sao Paulo on the 15th and Rio on the 16th.

Only GOL and Aerolineas Argentinas operate the 737NG in South America.

Requirements:
B737NG type rating
3500 TT
2000h on multi-crew with more than 30t
800h PIC
Last flight as a captain within the last 36 months
Able to live and work in the EU

For those flying the 737-3/4/500, a 737NG type rating will be required before joining.

[Vokes55]

what would really help your argument is if you would talk from your own experience, and not repeat something you have heard. Have you actually worked for Ryanair, if so, for how long? Have you actually been disciplined for something, if so - for what?

It's not actually relevant that I reveal these details, but for what it's worth, I did three years at Ryanair, before moving to a real airline.

What Mach81 says about the training is also correct. During my last week in the company, I flew with two ex-trainers in DUB, who simply gave up because the standard of trainee had declined so far, and they were being pressured to sign off cadets that weren't ready. TREs are leaving left, right and centre. I was even surprised to hear the TRE from one of my old bases had left for a Chinese outfit, as he was always very pro-company on the day.

The most accurate post on this thread. What an awful place to work. Those who don't realise it probably haven't worked for any other airline before.

This. Having left and joined a company that respects its individuals, it is actually embarrassing to think that some people believe Ryanair is a career airline. The airline is the driving force behind the lowering of T&Cs across the industry, and anybody who goes there with the intention of doing anything other than getting enough hours to get out is a disgrace to the profession.

[Vokes55]

Internet forums are a funny old thing. People state their honest and true recollection of their own experience, and people who don't agree with it reply with pointless, personal attacks about people they don't actually know.

Believe what you want, appears (note the use of that word) that you're just another mug towing the company line, thinking it's going to get you somewhere. Management laugh at people like you, evidently so spineless you're willing to make do with a poor salary, no union protection, forego your own comfort levels to save their fuel, a terrible pension (if at all). They respect you so little that they don't even give you water. Your fellow professional colleagues are so proud of you :ok:

[Artie Fufkin]

Vokes55 There are ways and ways of making your point. I don't work for them myself, but I can imagine feeling pretty miffed at your comments.you're just another mugManagement laugh at people like you...is no way to talk about people who might have to make complex decisions regarding work/ family/ basing etc.

No wonder you got an emotional response.

[EFISchap]

Well said.. This is an information gathering forum.

[Say Mach Number]

At last count there is over 4500 pilots in Ryanair.

Lets be clear it has its moments and its not perfect but where is these days.

We are either all completely deluded or there are some half decent things at Ryanair.

Things that float my boat are;

1. No nightstops

2. 5 days on 4 days off infinitum

3. No through the night flights (thank the Lord)

4. Not a contractor but with a few increments and in training last P60 was @£135k

5. Worked only 1 day off last year. Only because it suited and I did a deal with them. No bollocking for me for only doing 1 day off in 12 months. (dont do them as a Rule my days off are too precious)

Was in the Final Salary Pension but the :mad: closed it down. Other than the fact I believe I am underpaid, overworked and like a good moan like every commercial pilot I know thats my main gripe.

[akindofmagic]

I would be absolutely stunned if 1000 pilots genuinely leave Ryanair a year. I suspect that can be neatly filed under :mad:

[EFISchap]

Well the Ryanair pilot recruitment department must be diabolical and a ridiculous mess, ...... and their road shows to the middle east and brazil a complete waste of time....... because I know lads with PIC time on the NG and 747s and 777s waiting months for a reply .....


:mad: just don't add up!

[7Q Off]

It seems that Ryanair will be running roadshows in Brazil in August...

ICAO licence? It is possible?

[samca]

Yes it is, if EASA permits to the IAA. The most restricted thing is the EU passport and that most of the pilots are not going to come Europe for the salary offered. If they have to go out and travel 13000Kms to start a new life, they are going to go ME or China for the gold, not Europe.

[7Q Off]

Interesting. You need to convert to a full Easa licence? I mean the 13 subjects?

[username taken]

Well, I joined as a DEC. Wish I had never entertained the idea in the first place. I agree with earlier posts, the training is not good at all. The trainers that I have experienced do not know the Boeing manuals, but are experts in Ryanair SOPs etc. In fact, Ryanair training guides apparently take precedence over the QRH. Most DECs that I joined with have either left, leaving or applying for other jobs..... all within 12 months of starting.... the proof is in the pudding as they say.

[Luibar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently Ryanair could retain lots of pilots if they offered a proper local contract like easyjet.

[flyhigh85]

vokes555 is spot on describing Ryanair as one of or maybe the main reason T&C in Europe is now the about the worst worldwide taking in cost of living. It is a flightschool for most until can move on, that's it! For me it is a moral issue, and to this day I have never been a pax with them even though it has cost me alot more commuting with another Airline.

[RAT 5]

The biggest problem in discussing the decline in T's & C's, and the most likely reason, is that RYR's shareholders don't give a toss. Look at what the shares have done over 10 years. They are all licking their lips with glee and don't give a fig. If RYR can continue to expand, as they must to remain so profitable, and they can crew the a/c on any given day, the shareholders will not support a reduction in profit to improve T's & C's. Turnover of flight crew is of no concern of theirs. If that model works, then they so be it. It will only be when profits are hit by stagnant a/c that someone may start using questions.
Market forces etc. RYR a flying school? perhaps. Do they like it? perhaps. Is it sustainable? perhaps. As long as the queue of cadets is there, and the pax, then they will soldier on.

[Vokes55]

Which is why experienced pilots should have more self-respect than joining a driving force for falling T&Cs. Cadets, fine, everyone starts somewhere - not one person on my type rating course had the intention of staying long term, and (at last count) 8/12 have indeed moved on.

However, an endless supply of cadets is useless if there's no trainers there to get them through the course. As I've said, anybody with experience joining this outfit will instantly lose the respect of their fellow professionals - and as was stated correctly by somebody above, most DEP realise how bad it is and leave within a year anyway.

As for the rest, well sometimes the truth hurts. Anybody towing the company line IS a mug and IS laughed at by management. They don't even think you deserve water, how pathetic does that make you feel?

[Lepo]

Interesting. You need to convert to a full Easa licence? I mean the 13 subjects?

They accept DEC with ICAO licence from certain countries and do a validation with the IAA, but usually they have between 18-24 months to convert to a full EASA licence (do the 14 ATPL theory exams + sim check).

[samca]

And a part of that EU Passport

[sinusake]

Well, I joined as a DEC. Wish I had never entertained the idea in the first place. I agree with earlier posts, the training is not good at all. The trainers that I have experienced do not know the Boeing manuals, but are experts in Ryanair SOPs etc. In fact, Ryanair training guides apparently take precedence over the QRH. Most DECs that I joined with have either left, leaving or applying for other jobs..... all within 12 months of starting.... the proof is in the pudding as they say.


100% Agree.

[Smooth Airperator]

Not offering your hard working employees free bottled/filtered water is just about the most morally reprehensible any employer can do. Here we have the 6th most profitable airline in the world and the only one that doesn't give their crews free water, despite those crews busting a nut and flying 4 sectors a day working within a dried out tube. How anyone can defend that is beyond me.

[doniedarko]

4. Not a contractor but with a few increments and in training last P60 was @£135k


That's very disingenious to say the least. If you are taking that type of money you are on an old contract not available anymore.
If you have increments then you have not moved base in 10 years. If you moved or were forced then these would be gone.
You are at the top of the training pile as a TRE again an option many DEC will probably neversee.
In one way being one of the ' old guard ' you are trapped in your current position as any move even upward would have a financial penalty.
Most DEC or cadets joining today will probably have to move airline to reach the same level as you but sometimes it seems that's what Ryr want ! ....but post Brexit I wonder if MOL will use that to adjust UK based pilot's income. All imho of course .

[Say Mach Number]

All fair points dd and yes thats my situation.

Wasnt trying to be disingenuous or unbalanced.

As I said the in my list (1 - 3 anyway) they are same for all pilots.

I have been there a long time but I agree we are going backwards.

[samca]

Things to improve here.

5/4 yes is a good Roster but most of the working days 4 sectors and between 10-12 hours Duty in the best of the case with no slots, can kill everybody. Occasionally to do 4 sectors is ok but not 90% of the time.

Keep good TREs, SFIs in the company, it is very sad to go Stansted and see some TREs with not common sense at all, evaluating Command Assestment function only of your SOPs knowledge. The y don't care how do you fly, handling skills... SOPs adherence is the most important thing here, so lots of Senior FOs after 2 years joining the company or even less decide to go out.

Salary difference between Senior FO and cadet in Ryr contract is 0 Euros. To be in the program for the Command Upgrade and get the extrapayment of 10 Euros per hour it depends only of your Base Captain, it doesn't matter your experience or loyalty to the company... please Sirs, put automatically all the seniors FOs with 1800 hours on 73 in the program. Automatically put all the OCC guys in this program, there is a MEMO which you can stay in the program 18 months before your Upgrade...

Again after the upgrade, SENIORITY LIST. I would like to see where I am for getting my home base.

Split the holidays in two blocks of 15 days. Why we have to take 1 month in one shot?... year is very long, let your people to split their holidays, it would mitigate fatigue.

Crewcontrol support and respect to all pilots. Crewcontrol should helps crews when something happened and there is an overnight in one airport and also I would like to hear "get better" when I call sick, specially when we are doing 85-100 hours per month in some airports at 40 degrees.

Try to motivate your people, moral is essensial in this business. Try to keep your experience people on board, listen them, be an open mind.... don't go to Brazil or ME for pilots and work in other direction.

Cheers

[brklyyn]

Do they offer you the base you want with a Ryanair contract ? If yes, why not...

If it's a McGinley contract, stay away !

A lot of people are leaving for Channex or Nor shuttle... So try and then leave :}

Hi there,
Yes the base is the one that i wanted. So am pleased with that.
Do you know about the differences between a direct contract with fr and the other brokers? I guess i have a choice...

[brklyyn]

An FO with over 3000 hours joining Ryanair? You must've been desperate.

Expect the minimum amount of sectors to get you onto the line, followed by 100 hours every 28 days for the rest of your career. You'll get four days off per week, but make sure you have a second phone, otherwise you'll be woken up at 5am every day by them begging for you to work your day off (for no extra money).

Oh, and if you don't answer your phone, you'll be taken off the roster and face disciplinary action.

Good luck! ;)

No am not desperate, its a choice I've made to have a base where i wanted to be..... about the flight hours, that doesn't sound so possible does it? I mean its all regulated by the authorities, i guess its fair for all companies. I've been in others were we flew to the max, I guess nothing is new there...

[brklyyn]

Vokes55 There are ways and ways of making your point. I don't work for them myself, but I can imagine feeling pretty miffed at your comments....is no way to talk about people who might have to make complex decisions regarding work/ family/ basing etc.

No wonder you got an emotional response.


Well said Artie... exactly my thoughts... its about making ends meet at the end....

[jayc004]

I worked at Ryanair as a contractor for many years.
There are lots of good and bad things.

Almost everything in this tread is correct, good and bad.

In regards to discipline for not answering the phone - FACT! Totally true and has happened on many many occasions. I know from personal experience.
Also, if you answer your phone (from a withheld number) on a 'working day' and it is crewing, they are notifying you of a duty change. Even if they are moving your start time forward by 3 hours, you can not reject it or disciplinary. It is a fact and has happened to one of my ex-colleagues on his day one (he commuted weekly by car to his base so was not able to make the new brought forward report time on day 1).
Want to sleep a whole night through, then don't give Ryanair your primary phone number. Get a burner phone because they do and will call you on your days off at 4am, or even on working days. According to a Chief Pilot memo, if you don't want to be disturbed, pilots should turn their phones off, and contacting a pilot via telephone does not constitute interrupting rest. This is FACT and I believe this memo is still circulating various forums.

However, get a permanent contract in a base close to home, learn the tricks and be informed BEFORE you sign the contract, it can be an OK place to work.

One piece of advice I would give anyone looking for information on Ryanair.......go to an airport that Ryanair operate from. Sit on a bench inside the terminal and wait. At some point you'll find a pilot come along with his wheelie suitcase, pull out his jumper, and make a little nest to sleep on for a few hours whilst waiting for his 'privilege travel' flight back to his home on the other side of Europe.
Ask him directly, speak to the pilots face to face about it. You will be surprised at what a different story you get from Cadet, 2 stripe, 3 stripe and 4 stripe. Everyone has a different experience.

I left Ryanair after a long time. I didn't want to, but I was left with no alternative due to terrible contract terms and conditions. I went to another airline which is a lot nicer and more respectful, however I work more disruptive patterns and shifts here then I did at Ryanair.
The roster is good at FR, and the 'home' (read back at base) every night is really something I miss. No through the night flying and all flights on deck by 23:59 is something that you take for granted until you're doing night flights arriving at 03:00. Those extra hours are a killer.

Would I go back to Ryanair - most likely not.
However,
if I was offered the same pay and conditions as where I am now, to fly from my local airport - I would go back in a flash.
Stansted is not a normal base, and neither is Dublin. It's like comparing Gold to Tin. They not comparable to the regional 3-5 aircraft bases where you fly with the same people and have very little schedule disruption.

As everyone says, Ryanair could be the best employer in Europe. Get rid of mafia that's been at the top for an eternity, and it could be amazing.
Look at what CEO easyJet achieved in her 7 years. Ryanair management have been there since day one, and it shows how much of a cash cow that airline is for the boys at the top. I'm not sure if anyone has noticed how dictators and tyrants never give up power. Maybe there is a connection..............?
Speaking of which, If anyone gets a chance to read a book this summer, give George Orwell's Animal Farm a try. It seemed a very familiar tail, but I can't quite place my finger on it.......

Big thing, the general consensus of the employees is that management rule by fear, and the pilots BELIEVE they have no rights or the ability to stand up for themselves. After flying from Stansted and Dublin, and seeing how the Cabin Crew are treated, I can understand this mentality, but once I was shot of those big nightmare bases, it was a lot better.

All I would suggest is the following:
- Know the Ops manual inside and out
- Know the regulations inside and out
- Have a 'Ryanair phone'
- Always have a date in mind that you want to have off. If you are called to see if you can help, then 'negotiate'. (I always helped them if they helped me, and I always got what I asked for). If the don't keep their end of the bargain, tell them so next time and that is why you are refusing to help them.
- Never worry about carrying extra fuel. I always took what I wanted and never had to explain myself - EVER (but I wasn't a doosh like some of the people that take a ton for the sake of it in CAVOK).
- Always keep all memos and correspondence. Memos appear and then are 'removed' without notice
- Always keep a copy of your training records

Actually, whilst I am on this and I read somewhere earlier about Cabin Crew being grilled on SEP before each flight.
Some years ago, the management removed the CM1 ability to offload crew that the CM1 deemed unable to conduct the flight safely. The reason this was implemented (apparently) was due to the number of crew being bullied or offloaded by vindictive cabin managers who would find obscure SEP questions that no one knew the answer to, to try and catch out people they didn't like.
If a CC member is unable to give answers to procedures that must be known form memory, then why are they allowed operate.
That is like saying If on a line check I do not know my EFATO drills, I can carry on operations anyway as "everyday is a learning day".

Also, under the old IAA system of 'hours reset in April' it was possible to fly 1200 hours in a 12 month period. It's no longer possible. To be honest, I was always surprised at what was approved in the Ops manuals by the IAA.


I've had a bit of a rant, and contradicted myself a number of times, but this is the thing about Ryanair. There are good and bad things about it, and after so many years I am still unsure as to if it is a good or bad place to work. Maybe I have a bit of Stockholm Syndrome, but one thing is for sure, Ryanair is one of the safest places to be employed right now. And by employed, I don't mean on a tax beneficial agency contract! - STAY AWAY FROM THE AGENCIES!

[CaptainSensible]

And not forgetting the constant sniffles and cold you'll carry around with!. Due to the vast number of people operating for RYR who are effectively ZHC (zero hour contractors), people are loathe to take time off as it hits their pocket. Therefore instead of keeping their ailments at home they bring them to work so as the rest of us may share them!

[RAT 5]

Do you know about the differences between a direct contract with fr and the other brokers?

One operates under EU employee rules and protections, the other doesn't; you are on your own as vulnerable as a new born antelope on the Serengeti.

[Pizzacake]

As an outsider with not insubstantial economics and business quals , I'd say a larger percentage of the flight deck crew on here than they would be comfortable admitting wouldn't be in aviation at all if it wasn't for Ryanair.
Im sure they are not a good to work for as some legacy carriers and other locos but i doubt they give a flying frig.

Their business models super aggressive pricing actually creates demand in many cases and it's not airline managers offering low cost seats ,cos they want to, it's the public wanting it. But as I said, ryanair can actually create demand on routes by offering the super cheap seats that people who will go anywhere if it's cheap will travel on. There's evidence of towns and areas which where previously just industrial, having their tourism massively boosted as Ryanair have started flying into their airport. Some people actually now go to Girona due to Ryanair !!!!!

I'd hazard Ryanair's management fully embrace the fact that they are a "nursery" airline for many pilots and it's likely that a consciouss decision is made that while staff turnover remains below a certain point, they would likely not go out of their way to make these people feel all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't invest in people who are just going to get the min hours to get into a ME job and leave, it would be madness.

Long and short, it's supply and demand, if they don't have to offer better t and cs, they won't, and while there is demand elsewhere for pilots and they can get people to pay their own Type ratings, they will carry on being that airline that many just use as a stepping stone and not give two hoots about it.

Trust me folks, you could have much worse jobs, for much worse money for many many more hours. Maybe remember that before being so scathing of an organization that by its existence has some of you in work elsewhere at all.
And before some smarta**e chips in, I'm fully aware they just lifted southwests business model and ran with it.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I'd hazard Ryanair's management fully embrace the fact that they are a "nursery" airline for many pilots and it's likely that a consciouss decision is made that while staff turnover remains below a certain point, they would likely not go out of their way to make these people feel all warm and fuzzy. I wouldn't invest in people who are just going to get the min hours to get into a ME job and leave, it would be madness.

Their problem now is that their longer serving, more experienced crew are leaving, Sim examiners and trainers, line training captains, the experience level is deteriorating into a spiral that threatens to ground many aeroplanes.

[Lazydogg]

Yes. A couple of very highly respected senior TREs who i had marked down as "lifers" have just joined Jet2. Not too mention the countless FOs and Captains that are heading "oooop north" in STN.

[Thepirate]

Excellent post jayc004, really appreciated, thankyou

All the best

[Luibar]

Well, with all those resignations Ryanair must do something otherwise soon it will be unsustainable to run the expansion show...

[FWIflyer]

They don't give a :mad:. When I resigned, they called me to ask where I'm going to, what position and said ok ciao.

To that I replied "so that's it," you don't say thank you and you don't try to negotiate with the guys leaving."

Answer from Emma Af. "No, it's not a company policy"

[arketip]

Did you thank them?

Why would they try to negotiate if you already resigned?

[RAT 5]

And before some smarta**e chips in, I'm fully aware they just lifted southwests business model and ran with it.

The biggest myth out there. Both RYR & easyjet make this claim. If they claimed they had cherry-picked some of SWA's business model that would be fair. Was it not the case, a few years ago, that SWA was voted in the top 10 of best US companies to work for? Business model includes employment practices & philosophies.

Agreed that things will only improve when the supply of cadets & pax dries up. It is likely, if/when, the crew issue will arise before the pax issue.

[MaverickPrime]

Was it not the case, a few years ago, that SWA was voted in the top 10 of best US companies to work for?

If you check out their FB page you will see that they do indeed have a lot of respect for staff and are always running initiatives to help them and their families.

[Mach81]

It will be very interesting to see how short they will get this year, every summer it was always "this summer it will fall apart" but somehow they managed. Allowing no leave and getting mugs in to work days off I suppose! The problem now is there is so many job opportunitys around. I hear through the grapevine that 30 or so captains and the same amount of FOs in STN alone have other things confirmed - Jet2/Easy/China/NLH and a lot of FOs still sitting in the BA hold pool. Interesting times! Will that improve the Ts n Cs........of course not!!!! They are too stubborn for that!

[RAT 5]

Will that improve the Ts n Cs..

How can RYR improve the T's & C's when the vast majority of pilots are self-amployed working for rates via agencies? Perhaps if the self-employed (like my plumber) invoice for what they deem to be suitable rates. :confused:

[italian stallion]

I failed the assessment at Ryanair last year, I get a call now from a recruiter saying they're giving us a second chance if we're interested. ....mmmmm let me think about this......yawn......

[arketip]

Yes, because you learned only now that Ryanair is bad, last year everybody thought that it was the best airline in the world, that's why you applied :rolleyes:

[Peripero]

At the end of the day this is just another forum. The only people who have time and energy to write on forums are either the unemployed or the deeply hurt ones.

[Mach81]

so which are you? Deeply hurt or unemployed? You obviously have the time!

[zerotohero]

I started 2007 in FR and left 2012 and every summer was the usual they will have to ground planes. They all seemed to keep flying.

Don't forsea any changes on the horizon while ever the sausage factory is in full swing. The LTC's could have the company by the balls if they all just downed tools for a 5 day roster period and then negotiate to come back. But not many people are willing to risk losing a mortgage payment so it won't happen.

As many have said it could be the best airline to work for with just a little change. But they prefer the iron distance approach.

Can't remember what they turned as a profit last year but circa a billion? What's the goal? I'd rather have £800million and the happiest work force on the planet. Could probably fire half the legal team then to save some money.

[Peripero]

so which are you? Deeply hurt or unemployed? You obviously have the time!

Actually, none. I've been in RYR for over 2 years now, and quite happy. It's all individual. There are far worse airline jobs than this, and there is ALWAYS be something to moan about, in every airline. You just have to be the type.

[SID PLATE]

"Keep good TREs, SFIs in the company, it is very sad to go Stansted and see some TREs with not common sense at all, evaluating Command Assestment function only of your SOPs knowledge. The y don't care how do you fly, handling skills... SOPs adherence is the most important thing here, so lots of Senior FOs after 2 years joining the company or even less decide to go out."

You're still not quite getting it, are you Samca old son ?
If you want a command in RYR, you have to know and follow the SOP's. At least until you've done your command check. They are there for a reason. Over thirty different nationalities, and levels of experience between 200 and 20,000 hours plus. It's a safety thing.
You might be able to ace a raw data limiting crosswind approach in the sim, but if you don't follow, or know the SOP's you'll continue to get crap marks, and your sought after command course will disappear over the horizon. You'll be left gazing wistfully at it, still in the RHS.
The system isn't flawed, hombre, take a look in the mirror.

[samca]

I follow the SOPs and I know the SOPs... that's not the reason why I'm not in the LHS yet...
yes SID PLATE the system is working, bravo... I still flying RHS after two years in the company. For me it was enough time 6 months flying to follow the SOPs like a bot, SOPs here are difficult to learn BUT not impossible and as I said it could be hard at the beginning but after a few months you are just one pilot more.
What you seems to be out of game "son", is your completely lack of common sense. To STOP some guys in his path to the Command because he forgot to put PROG page 4 in final when you as TRE are repositioning the SIM continuously for performing different exercises, this is just an example... That is what you are looking for when you tick the box than a pilot is ready for his Command?
Anyway and as I told you in other posts, I don't care because I'm going to be Captain in this company or in other, it's doesn't matter but you are still going to be a bad person, bad trainer with no common sense but of course an excellent knowledge of your SOPS.

Enjoy,

[FlightDetent]

You are stubborn, samca. That's not a good qualifying characteristic. A Captain needs to know how to listen to arguments opposing his gut feeling. There is a very good technical reason for it.

A pilot is ready only once he grows beyond his "I am ready and entitled" period.

[BluSdUp]

I have had my money on RYR not having enough crew for the main summer season. ( June July August) For a few years now.

I was wrong.
But the next year and a half should get interesting.
Again I am going to bet there will be problems if conditions do not change.
To many TRE, Linetrainers and Captains leaving.
I think if the stock owners understood how critical the situation is about to become , we would see some changes soon.

Who knows, one day they give us free water and coffee, and Samca as LineTrainer?

Oh Dear, I should be careful what I wish for !
Ok: Coffee is on me!

[samca]

Yes please I want to know the authentic soul of the best trainers like you guys!!!

[Luibar]

If so many TRE and LTC are leaving most certainly there will be problems with recurrent training and new pilots getting delayed on the release to line operation with others sitting at home waiting. That will lead to disruptions in flight operations. Ryanair for sure must have a plan to cope with that since, apparently, they seems not be interested in adjusting T & C.

[RobsonCanolo]

I think this is one of those where too many are leaving but there is still growth so it's hidden from view sort of. Still more pilots overall than last year but not enough perhaps. Still growth... Planes still flying. People visit new places. Pilots still apply. Money to training department. Pprune free advertisement - Great training department. So if all would stay and be happy it would be more growth more money more flights, shareholders don't get regular dividends anyway.

[VJW]

Errr say that again :/

[MaverickPrime]

If you listen to any of MOLs meetings with shareholders, they are on YouTube, he often talks about how his pilots are paid €150k/yr and they only work 17 hours a week. Obviously no pilot in Ryanair earns anywhere near that sort of money apart from maybe some training captains. The problem with FR is that the exceutives like to think their pilots are laughing all the way to the bank, when it's actually the other way around.

It's philosophical really. FR has no interest in doing deals or competing with anyone. They just want to get the upper hand in every single area of their business and completely dominate and control every aspect that could have a negative effect on their bottom line.

I listened to the new CFO talking to some business news outlet and he threw around phrases like 'kill other airlines'; whatever happened to healthy competition...

This is the reason that T&Cs will never change at FR; because it would mean that the company would have to give concessions and that will never happen! Compromises and concessions do not exist in the world of Ryanair.

[SID PLATE]

Yes please I want to know the authentic soul of the best trainers like you guys!

Last post from me on this ..
The "authentic soul" (?) of most RYR trainers is that they want trainees to succeed. If a trainee doesn't make the grade after the usual number of sectors, and if that trainee has potential, they will be given extra training to bring them up to standard.
The command course failure rate is low. Guys generally fail not because they can't handle the aeroplane, or because they don't know, or follow, the SOP's, but because they can't manage the flight.
The training department won't put you on a command course for a number of reasons. It's nothing to do with a conflict of personality between you and your Base Captain, or between you and the training department. It's more to do with if they think you have a chance of passing the course. If they don't, they will give you more time to work on your operation, or your attitude. A command course, even in Ryanair, is not an automatic right even for someone who's been in the RHS for 'two years'.
RYR's SOP's aren't difficult. You might argue that some are unnecessary, (I would..) and some are marginally stupid. They won't, however, kill you. If the company which pays you wants you to operate in a certain way, then why not just do it ?
You claim to know, and follow the SOP's. Half your battle is won then. You might want to address the other half and ask yourself if your attitude might be the problem? If so, consider doing something about it.
Good Luck.

[Luibar]

pilots are paid €150k/yr and they only work 17 hours a week.

17 hours a week is for sure an average. If multiply 17 by 52 weeks you get close to 900 hours. Also the €150k/year could be the average cost that FR has with each captain. Anyway, it is a very clever way of passing the message to owners that pilots are well paid even if the reality is, well, quite different.

Just my 2 cents...

[MaverickPrime]

As soon as I heard it, I knew it was total rubbish. By the time time you add up all the duty hours on the ground and in the sim, it probably averages out at a normal 45 hour week; although they don't consider ground hours as work. :rolleyes::

As for €150k, do you really think it would be an average? Surely no pilot earns more than €150k gross, bar chief pilot maybe, at Ryanair so I'm not sure it could average out at that.

[smthngdffrnt]

Critical situation for Ryanair?

Do you mean that they are planning to pay the TR course for low hours?

[Luibar]

I say it can be the average cost that FR have with captains but including FR social contributions not only what they pay to the pilots.

[samca]

Last post from me on this ..
The "authentic soul" (?) of most RYR trainers is that they want trainees to succeed. If a trainee doesn't make the grade after the usual number of sectors, and if that trainee has potential, they will be given extra training to bring them up to standard.
The command course failure rate is low. Guys generally fail not because they can't handle the aeroplane, or because they don't know, or follow, the SOP's, but because they can't manage the flight.
The training department won't put you on a command course for a number of reasons. It's nothing to do with a conflict of personality between you and your Base Captain, or between you and the training department. It's more to do with if they think you have a chance of passing the course. If they don't, they will give you more time to work on your operation, or your attitude. A command course, even in Ryanair, is not an automatic right even for someone who's been in the RHS for 'two years'.
RYR's SOP's aren't difficult. You might argue that some are unnecessary, (I would..) and some are marginally stupid. They won't, however, kill you. If the company which pays you wants you to operate in a certain way, then why not just do it ?
You claim to know, and follow the SOP's. Half your battle is won then. You might want to address the other half and ask yourself if your attitude might be the problem? If so, consider doing something about it.
Good Luck.

My attitude is perfectly normal, that´s not the problem. It is difficult to explain in a forum. Anyway guys thank you for your advices I will try to reach the "level" required for been at least in the command upgrade program. Not going to the command if the BC do not consider my skills enough for passing the CU course, but at least been in the program... I think it would be fair for a guy with my experience. I don´t going to upload my CV here of course but just to say I have a "little bit" more than 2 years on the RHS in the 73, just a few type ratings, command hours on jet and worldwide experience in zones that you will never fly in your life...

Anyway guys, I agree that SOP´s are for something and can save your life... and I repeat it is not the problem here...

[doniedarko]

Critical situation for Ryanair?

Do you mean that they are planning to pay the TR course for low hours?

Low hour FO's are queuing to pay for a type rating and get a foot on the ladder

Captains are where any shortage maybe. As long as they can make it to September it will mean the hopes and dreams that T & C's will improve for staff are over for another year !. They previously ran NTR courses but from what I recall there was a healthy bond for 3 years attached.

[highfive]

Its not the low time pilots , but possibly the very experienced returning expats that are keeping salaries low. DEC at J2, EZ, NLH is popular for the cashed up 50 somethings Ex. EK & QR brigade. Or occasionally, from Asia.

If you have a 1 million quid house paid for, kids left Uni and a place on the Costa, then its just pocket money from your work. Pilot shortage? No 'ere in the UK, look east sir.

[Luibar]

Recently a very experienced TRI/TRE from my present lot resigned to join Ryanair as NTR DEC on the same base where he was on the previous airline but with a gross pay reduction of €20k. When asked why he simply said that FR as a better lifestyle and job security. Who knows.

[triple_2]

Could I ask how much take home you'll be looking at joining ryanair as a non type rated DEC? Would Barcelona or Girona be possible immediately on joining?

[Thepirate]

What about as a dec and you get the base you want can they move you then?

[172_driver]

If you're a contractor they can, and often will, have you operating "out of base". At times you could see rosters which had you more out of base in a month than at home base.
If you're on a Ryanair contract you are safer. However, ask what happened to the pilots in Marseille, Girona, Copenhagen, Billund or Oslo when the base closed (or downsized).

[Luibar]

If you're taking it for the base bear in mind that you'll have to move again in a year or two.
I worked with a guy who came here with similar experience to yourself with the promise of being in his home base. He hadn't realised he wouldn't be staying there after the upgrade until he received an email telling him to choose between Kaunas, Vilnius, Sofia, Otopeni or Timisoara!

They have to move to another base even if the one they are as FO are in need of captains?

[samca]

The answer is YES

[Luibar]

Why is that?

[FRogge]

Because then they can use your preferred base as a carrot for something else.

[skyflyer737]

I know plenty of FOs in larger bases who have upgraded to Capt and stayed in their base. It's not as clear cut as saying it is guaranteed you'll have to move. You probably will have to, for a while, but it's not a 100% certainty.

[samca]

I don't know even a single one

[I-PIERLU]

I know quite a lot of guys so lucky to do their upgrade training in their base and then keeping their base. So it's just about being lucky and not dropping your trousers during the interview...

[Vokes55]

If you've stayed long enough to do your command then you're probably used to dropping your trousers

[MaverickPrime]

I know a guy who joined as a cadet - SFI - Captain - TRE and has never been based outside of the UK since he started with Ryanair. It's not the worst company out there.

But, it's more funny to read all the jaded, negative, emotionally loaded drivel on pprune than have a balanced discussion.

[samca]

All the FOs of my base has been sended out after the Command Upgrade. Even they finished the line training without base assigned. But everybody out for at least 1 year
This is the way is working now as far as I know

[I-PIERLU]

Vokess55, no I joined last year for the base opportunity and cause I prefer to work 180 days/year. I'm not telling anybody that it is the company we have been dreaming for, but that if you are able to find your dimension inside it and not get stressed and swithing off your phone when you are off,it's ok.
About the base it's a gambling sometimes, they usually provide the one you're askin' for DEFO and DEC, especially, to make you join.
I'm not one of those signing a training bond for upgrade with the base in blank, I'm not willing to move for 1'000 more euros a month...!

[BluSdUp]

In one base I happen to know for a fact that most upgrades got to stay.
I flew with all of them at one point , so this is fact , not fiction.

If you want upgrade and want to stay in base, tell them so. Simple .

[Vokes55]

180 days a year? I work about 65-70 days a year, get paid a lot more and, unbelievably, get given enough bottled water to do the job without dehydrating.

But it's ok, because MaverickPrime "knows a guy" so it must be just more 'emotionally loaded drivel'.

[fulminn]

An FO with over 3000 hours joining Ryanair? You must've been desperate.

Expect the minimum amount of sectors to get you onto the line, followed by 100 hours every 28 days for the rest of your career. You'll get four days off per week, but make sure you have a second phone, otherwise you'll be woken up at 5am every day by them begging for you to work your day off (for no extra money).

Oh, and if you don't answer your phone, you'll be taken off the roster and face disciplinary action.

Good luck! ;)

who told you this BS?:confused:

are you dutch?

[tongo-sierra]

How is life in FRA base ? Average income CPT ?

[Knee Trembler]

Would also be interested to hear about FRA. I'm due to start there in Sept.

[bigdaviet]

I know a guy who joined as a cadet - SFI - Captain - TRE and has never been based outside of the UK since he started with Ryanair. It's not the worst company out there.

But, it's more funny to read all the jaded, negative, emotionally loaded drivel on pprune than have a balanced discussion.


A very misleading post. If it is true then that guy is incredibly lucky and VERY much in the minority.

Be very wary with regards to basing.

[Callsign Kilo]

Yes, very much in the minority

People did get to stay in their base or the country where they were based, but in many cases they were in regions that were considered as 'unpopular choices' with the rank and file. Great if that where you live, but not always a guarantee.

There's always going to be a case of 'I know someone who knows someone' who has stayed in his UK base since day dot in somewhere as big as FR. I was there for quite some time and in my experience it was very rare. Most people did get back to where they needed to be eventually. In some cases it takes years. Lots of people just leave because of the uncertainty and tension it creates.

[RAT 5]

It does seem an odd way to treat a 'valued asset'; to promote them into a position that is critical to the well being of the company, both as ambassador & safety, then deliberately test their stamina by disrupting their family life. True, it might be necessary due to no local vacancies, but to do it because 'that is the way it is', and even in another country that will reduce your rest time due to committing seems to send the wrong message about the company's opinion of your worth.
All that stuff we get pumped into us every 6 months about team work and creating a positive atmosphere does not seem relevant on the ground when 'mission control' is pulling the strings. Sad.

[beachbumflyer]

And why is so hard to assign bases by seniority?

[172_driver]

Not many DEC would join if they would end up in the bottom of the seniority list. Base of choice, good roster and reasonable income is what attracts people to join, isn't it.

On the other hand, less likely people would leave if they knew what to expect.

[Mikehotel152]

I detest these kinds of self-satisfied boasts:-

180 days a year? I work about 65-70 days a year, get paid a lot more

Perhaps we could start by comparing apples with apples, rather than apples with watermelons.

[SliabhLuachra]

I realise commuting to bases is a big issue with regards to the 5/4 roster and how it isn't as great as it seems for certain people.

If I'm based in, lets say Milan. If I live in Dublin and a flight to Milan with RYR gets me in in perfect time for my shift, do crewing ever let me work that flight over so that the commute is actually a flight over to my base that i'm working? Or would that be too nice?

[doniedarko]

Valued Asset....in Ryanair ....you guys crack me up :}

[zerotohero]

I realise commuting to bases is a big issue with regards to the 5/4 roster and how it isn't as great as it seems for certain people.

If I'm based in, lets say Milan. If I live in Dublin and a flight to Milan with RYR gets me in in perfect time for my shift, do crewing ever let me work that flight over so that the commute is actually a flight over to my base that i'm working? Or would that be too nice?

No. If your Milan based your based there.
They will send you out of base but only to do pairs of flights. The issue with doing the DUB-BGY flight to work is someone has to do the outbound (if its from BGY) to get the aircraft to DUB or the return to DUB if its a Dublin based aircraft. Having people do single sectors would be a rostering nightmare.

The only way that would ever happen is by doing a swap with an Italian F/O from Milan based in Dublin and you would both need a perfect matching roster and one of you be doing the DUB-BGY or BGY-DUB flight to make it happen. Chances are about zero.

[zerotohero]

My Type was in 2007 and everyone I know from that course still has left. Seems like its pretty natural for everyone to move on and I recon Ryanair expect and plan for that. Maybe even encourage it.

[gceyg]

How far can one live away from their base with Ryanair? Is it based on miles/km or time to get to airport?

[VJW]

Time. Need to be 1 hour from the 'reporting station'. I'm 50 miles away from my base.

[dxbpilot]

Anyone know if theyre still offering a shared roster ? IE 5 on 13 off ?

[Say Mach Number]

Yes but not at initial recruitment stage. It can be only applied for from within.

[recall_checked]

Does anyone have any idea about the pilot situation in Ryanair? Apparently during past seven years or so it's been the normal "they won't get thru this summer"-story among the pilots but anyone have any real info how they are doing? Heard they went to Brazil for a roadshow :cool:

All the guys from my type rating are gone.

The question isn't "do they have enough pilots?", its "how many flights are cancelled today?".

You always have enough pilots if you cancel enough flights.

[Martin_123]

you can go to ryanair website and check real time updates for every flight in a nice list. so far this morning out of 1000+ flights, none of them are cancelled and vast majority are on time. The delays that they have are within 20-30 minutes, but I guess the situation will deteriorate with the TS in UK at the moment. It looks like they're doing well

[jeehaa]

Those are all last minute cancellations and those due to extreme circumstances. Those cancelled earlier will not show up on 'cloud.scorebuddy.com' or on their own website; i.e. A good way to hide.

[Martin_123]

ah jeez, and can you tell me how many flights a day do they cancel and where do you get the data from? Are you saying a cancellation due to crew shortage is planned in advance? Why not get one of the ACMI's to step in then, surely cheaper than paying all the compos to stranded pax? Some of the agenda on this site is beyond real..

[172_driver]

Are you saying a cancellation due to crew shortage is planned in advance?

That is what he's saying and I believe that is true too. If you do it neatly well in advance it won't be noticed. The red nosed competitor hasn't been as smooth with it this summer.

ACMI has been used in the past, it's nothing new.

[FRogge]

I believe that during this time of the year there isn't that much acmi available... reason why NAX even have to use xtra airways from Florida. That can't be cheap!

[UAV689]

Havent seen any evidence of cancelled flights. Even on social media people would be complaining on every ryanair post possible if this was the case.

They havent leased in summer for a few years now, previously they used flydubai and and before that was an airbus outfit. I do think they have slowed deliveries somewhat.

Hiring must be painful, they have started bonding cadets. Best news for a long time.

[172_driver]

Hiring must be painful, they have started bonding cadets. Best news for a long time.

Do they pay for training then?

[MaverickPrime]

they have started bonding cadets. Best news for a long time.

From what I've heard only 10% of cadets recruited presently will be bonded for 4-6 years.

To be eligible for the bond you have to go through the Ryanair APC, which seems to be fed from certain eastern and southern european schools and results in a Ryanair tailored MCC at CAE.

As of yet, I haven't heard the cost, but you pay in the low ££££'s before commencing the MCC and Ryanair pay for the rest of the cost of the MCC, the TR and Line Training.

[RAT 5]

And how do you bond a self-employed person?

[jmvdb22]

I'd guess it isn't that hard to make a kind of contract with some terms for this. Just like company's are able to sign a contract with each other regarding prices or whatever.

[VJW]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xdY0CMVfMxs

[MaverickPrime]

The APC program will be open to everybody through McGinley Aviation. I think the students coming from the schools who already have an APC agreement in place with Ryanair will have a preference to be called for the interview simply because they know their "products". Before this it was open only to locals/Eastern Europeans and Italians if the school is Italian.
2 bond options: 3 years and 6 years. How it is done, well... we will find out.

Do you know which schools are involved in this, I'm guessing Global SA in Greece and Bartolini are two of them?

[its easy]

I worked there.

Sent out of base at short notice. Book and pay for my own hotel , find way to get there etc, so no time off.
Happened 3/4 weeks rostered.

Was sick and at sent notice ordered to Dublin. Pay didn't arrive in my account, with no warning and I was on a Ryan contract at this stage.
As it was quite a bad illness and recurred, because I was afraid to take time off and properly heal. They witheld my pay 3 times in total. A nightmare with my mortgage

They ignored doctors and AME letters. Never asked me how I was.
They called me repeatedly in early hours of days off.

In the first four years my pay didn't rise ,so with inflation fell 10+%, but at four years they offered 70 e and hour, down from 85. I had 28 days to set up a PLC and accept,orlose my job.

[El Capitano]

Luckely I never worked for them but this is the most :mad: airline ever! Pretending to be the Southwest Airlines of Europe and in the meantime treating their personnel like trash.
Only one thing to do, no pilot should join and the ones who made the mistake to join should go on immediate strike pan European wide.
Oh yeah, one more thing, every RYR pilot should pay let,s say 50 euro to rend a bunch of criminals to get rid of O Lairy and the rest of his management bandits.

This could be a great airline, if they treat their personnel well.

I hope the pilot shortage will hurt them even harder and harder. Then finally O Leary has to bend over and offer some decent terms and conditions instead of the employees getting shafted everytime and accept this.

But again, no one force you to go work for RYR. Just don,t.

If due to the many cancellations also the travel public stay away, that is even better.

[Greenlights]

But again, no one force you to go work for RYR. Just don,t.



+1
there is a lot ryanair bashing these days, (suddenly those pilots found out their balls), but in the mean time, those same pilots were happy to bow down during all these years. Am I wrong ?
all of these employees are in collusion. No sympathy here.

[GScapture]

It's easy to blame existing pilots for not doing anything but one needs to understand that the way the personnel is structured and organized is so twisted that it's easier said than done to organize not to mention unionize.

What they've been lacking all these years is leverage and that's what they've got now. People are voting with their feets and now when everyone can see the inevitable I wouldn't be surprised seeing bases like DUB or STN going on strike or stopping flying suddenly, following with other bases. Hope they do.

And yeah not getting this topic going too much off-topic, answer to a question in the first page;

Don't go there.

[akindofmagic]

Only one thing to do, no pilot should join and the ones who made the mistake to join should go on immediate strike pan European wide.
Oh yeah, one more thing, every RYR pilot should pay let,s say 50 euro to rend a bunch of criminals to get rid of O Lairy and the rest of his management bandits.

Hard to know where to begin with this drivel. However, with cretins like this in the industry (assuming indeed that s/he is a professional pilot), it's not hard to see why appropriate respect isn't forthcoming for the profession.

[RAT 5]

RYR said they live according to market forces. Well, perhaps markets forces are operating in ways they had not anticipated.

[Wingman82]

Hello gents. I have an assessement in 2 weeks as a DEC. Can someone please send me a personal mail what to expect if you been there recently. I would appreciate alot. Thanks!

[OhNoCB]

wrong thread

[Philip Boucher-Hayes]

I am an Irish journalist working for the national broadcaster, RTÉ.

I would like to speak, in confidence and off record, to any current or former Ryan Air pilots on this forum.

Please don't post here if you want to speak to me.

You can mail me - [email protected]

I also use two secure, end to end encrypted messaging apps

Threema where my ID is FYE3T6UM

Or on Signal where my number is 0878262587

All communication will be treated sensitively and discretely.

[Cows getting bigger]

A bit off advice.

For quite a few years Ryanair was about the only way to a jet job, especially for those who followed the modular route. Consequently, they were able to set T&Cs which are, to be benevolent, reminiscent of the dark ages.

Market forces have indeed changed and many/most short haul operators are recruiting. Don't get focussed on Ryanair just because the likelihood of an offer is high; if you're half decent and motivated you've got a good chance with many of the other operators. Most of these companies recognise that staff are an asset and not just an expense.

[Vokes55]

Have you been living under a rock for the past two weeks?

Same question goes for anybody with any experience even considering joining this mob.

[Dualbleed]

Looks like joining Ryanair in the future will be detrimental to a career in other airlines that treat people decent. I sure hope so. Hopefully this rut will stop. Not holding my breath though.

[El Capitano]

Stay away!

Joining RYR now undermines the position of flight and cabin crew who hopefully finally stand up against a management who shows the biggest disrespect for their personnel in aviation history.

Do you really want to work for an outfit like RYR? If not done before, read all the threads about working for RYR and hopefully you will be cured for ever!

There are plenty other options now at airlines who still offer good conditions.
Go for it before the crisis sets in again and the doors will be locked again for many years to come.

[GScapture]

100% agreed above.

Ryanair is not a place to go. They are just a bunch of bullies who wants to create an hostile working environment.

What people (mostly brainwashed by Ryanair) often forget to think that there is so much more than flying 100h/month loco around Europe and carrying your own water bottles around the terminals. It's so sad that people have taken it as a "standard" nowadays.

They do have some great training and crew in there which I hope they manage to get together and use this opportunity.

What it comes to considering going there etc.. Just don't do it. You'll be just helping a one big twisted machine to create even more harm in the industry.

[JWS1996]

I understand that Ryanair is not ideal, but for someone straight out of flight school options are limited! Jet2 apprentice seems a really good scheme but failing that and without fluency in languages other than English where are the other big opportunities?

[Vokes55]

I don't have so much contempt for somebody joining the company straight out of flight school, as long as their intention is to get out as soon as they have enough hours to join a real airline.

Those with experience joining, however, should be ashamed of themselves.

[kahaha]

Hi guys. Im in the Far east and can afford to pay for the €28k DEC training. I want a Milano base and overtime . And a stable roster and bonus .
Any guys there can add any info?
I understand its only 18 hours per week of duty and a really great company. I hear they are reducing the roster workload , which sounds great .
Thanks in advance ;)

[WindSheer]

Listen to yourselves!

We all understand the Ryanair business model, we know the terms and conditions before we join.
The biggest hype about the past few weeks has been on this forum rather than the media.

There will still be a queue out the door waiting to sign up, and more so, the flight schools will probably jump at the opportunity to provide at the moment.
The industry has changed!

[Alycidon]

I don't have so much contempt for somebody joining the company straight out of flight school, as long as their intention is to get out as soon as they have enough hours to join a real airline.

It is precisely this behaviour that allows less scrupulous companies to exploit the naive youngsters desperate to offer cheap labour.

Pilots who remain in the company are the ones who can improve conditions.

[bigdaviet]

Hello gents. I have an assessement in 2 weeks as a DEC. Can someone please send me a personal mail what to expect if you been there recently. I would appreciate alot. Thanks!



Haven't you tried any alternatives?! There are better options than FR available in Europe just now.

[fulminn]

Hi guys. Im in the Far east and can afford to pay for the €28k DEC training. I want a Milano base and overtime . And a stable roster and bonus .
Any guys there can add any info?
I understand its only 18 hours per week of duty and a really great company. I hear they are reducing the roster workload , which sounds great .
Thanks in advance ;)


are you serious?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I understand that Ryanair is not ideal, but for someone straight out of flight school options are limited! Jet2 apprentice seems a really good scheme but failing that and without fluency in languages other than English where are the other big opportunities?

Herein lies the problem, those leaving flying school now expect to fly a jet. "Big opportunities"

How about actually learning to fly, go and instruct for a year or two, then get a multi crew job flying a turbo prop, then when you've done that for a few years move onto a jet.

[TheMightyAtom]

While that may be Nice, I don't think it's very realistic. Someone leaving flight school right now, joining Ryanair - rubbish as it is, will see you in a much better position, having earned more money in 5 years, than the old school self improved route.

I don't think this says anything about the attitudes of new pilots. Just that those are the options available. 2 years as an instructor earning a pittance, 2 years as a TP FO maybe 30k pa and then hopefully a jet job. Vs add a little to your already enormous debt, earn better money and have the option to move on with a solid TR in your pocket.

It's naive to bash 'the stupid kids of today' for picking what clearly represents a better return on investment.

[hec7or]

Cadets are enticed by big shiny jets, big glassy airports, ray bans and a Breitling. Flying? Nah.

[akindofmagic]

How about actually learning to fly, go and instruct for a year or two, then get a multi crew job flying a turbo prop, then when you've done that for a few years move onto a jet.

The problem is that, as nice as it would be to be able to do that, it doesn't reflect the realities of the modern world of aviation.

[squeaker]

If you can get in to Flybe that would be better, their training is very good.

[italian stallion]

Oh Johnny...
If you were fresh out of flight school and offered a nice jet to fly would you not jump at the opportunity? I bet you'd be first in line....so stop bashing the newbies, put your big ego in your pockets and rather focus on standing together as a pilot group and bashing management about how they treat pilots collectively.
So many big egos here but all too chicken to do anything about it.
End of the day a newbie also has to put food on the table, pay back loans etc so if a nice jet job will provide for that then well done to them.

[TheMightyAtom]

I left Ryanair a few months ago to go to a UK airline.

My standard of life (and my family's) has dropped significantly since leaving, due to me now being on a random roster. A lot needs to change in RYR, but it does suit some people, if you're based at home in the left seat, I would be in no rush to leave.

As for joining RYR, you know what to expect from reading the posts on here, if you think you'll be happy then join.

I'm an FO and RYR don't take many FO's back for some reason, but if they did, I'd give it some serious consideration just to get my old standard of life back (as would many of my colleagues).

They're happy to take back FOs, have you emailed DR?

[MaverickPrime]

If you can get in to Flybe that would be better, their training is very good.

Although the salary is lower at Flybe, by the time you add up all the extras such as, pension, staff travel, medical, uniforms, training, permanent contract, home base, it probably works out to be better financially than Ryanair - not too mention its more fun flying!

[JWS1996]

Herein lies the problem, those leaving flying school now expect to fly a jet. "Big opportunities"

How about actually learning to fly, go and instruct for a year or two, then get a multi crew job flying a turbo prop, then when you've done that for a few years move onto a jet.

Instructing is hardly well payed either, it would seem like treading water career-wise to me? Within that few years I could have a couple of thousand jet hours.

[gearlever]

Ryanair pilots face HMRC investigation over airline's employment structures



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/03/ryanair-pilots-hmrc-investigation-airlines-uk

[Vokes55]

Jet2, TUI, Norwegian, Titan, Virgin, Aer Lingus and easyJet all recruiting right now for UK/IRE jobs. There's no excuse for anybody to lower themselves to the level of Ryanair.

[JWS1996]

Vokes, a few good options there (Titan and Jet2 in particular imo) but no way will they all take you as a cadet fresh from flight school

[Vokes55]

No, but this thread was started by somebody with experience. Joining as a cadet is just about forgivable, joining with experience when there are so many far superior options out there isn't. TUI require just 300 hours on type, which most cadets would achieve in around 6 months or less, and is a job that's worlds apart from Ryanair in just about all departments.

The other end of the scale is captains who have the 'golden handcuffs' attached. Not for a long time have there been so many options for direct entry captains, both in the UK and abroad.

[JWS1996]

Completely agree with you there Vokes!

[DutchExpat]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/03/ryanair-pilots-hmrc-investigation-airlines-uk?CMP=fb_gu

[Greenlights]

don't join, you deserve better.

[RAT 5]

Curious they mention only 'sick pay: what about holiday pay? Pilots & cabin crew, they allege, are paid NOT for the work/duty they actually do, but only the time they were planned to do. That sounds even worse than a zero-hour contract; and perhaps gives RYR a legal escape when claiming there are no zero-hour contracts at RYR.

The mandatory company designated unpaid month off policy reminds me of a ruse used by an old employer of mine for 75% of cabin crew. They were employed on 11 month contracts and forced to take December off, unpaid. They were then re-hired on January 1st for another 11 months. That way they circumvented the EU rules that anyone working for 12 months continuously was deemed to be full-time employed. I do not know if that is still the case, but forcing an unpaid month off, instead of 2 x 2week separate periods seems a similar tactic. Curious.

[Reveal1]

FlipFLapFlop,
...but I do not consider Ryanair neither an airline company nor an option...
so there was no relation with Ryanair...

thanks anyway for your try..

[Tom4]

Dear colleagues,

I would like to ask about your opinion regarding direct entry F/O to RYR. There are min. requirements: 1200tt, 1000 (CS25) and 800 B737.

With my 900 on B737(CS25) but only cca 1100tt is it possible to get there or try to apply for selection process? Or do you think it is much better to wait for full this requirements completely?

Thank you in advance for your tips.

[flyingmed]

No harm in applying. I would doubt with the current situation they will care too much about a few hours. Just make sure you do your research on what you might be getting yourself into!

[Ronand]

why would you join an airline were almost everyone is trying to get out. At latest when you start your occ course in eastmidlands, where you will have to pay for your accomodation, food, uniform and transport to and from the training center, you will regret joining them......

[Tom4]

flyingmed,Ronand: Firstly thank you for advice.

For the moment I am in good company and I can truly say that we have very good conditions. But honestly I would like to fly more (do not judge me because of this), I heard that in ryr you will get 900hrs per year "with out" mercy as FO. I have got 800hrs in my last 12 months but I would like to fly more. ->this is the reason

Actually I do not want to quit right now, but I wanna look around little but. Also heard that in FlyDubai you will be "bird", but there is min. req. 1500tt.

I wish you all the best guys!

[Luibar]

I have got 800hrs in my last 12 months but I would like to fly more.

Are you serious?

[beachbumflyer]

You are in a good company with very good conditions flying 800 hrs. a year and you are
thinking about joining Ryanair to fly more. You must be out of your mind!

[Wingman82]

No friends and privat life? more than 800h ?! :ugh:

[Flocks]

Oh my god !
800hr and want to fly more !
You make me think about you do people iny airline, we are limited to 750 HR a years, but if you want you can ask to have this limit removed and go back to the normal 900hr ! Ofc no really extra salary, ... I was surprised of how many young guys took it.

This word is crazy !

[Ronand]

You want to fly more hahahaha.... Go to Lionair they do over 1100 hrs a year. Or maybe better go to a psychiatrist!
It is people like you that are ruining it for everyone else...

[Vokes55]

Why is this thread still going? It's quite clear that nobody should be "joining Ryanair" any time soon.

[vikingivesterled]

What is wrong with wanting to do more of what you love. With the added bonus for a pilot of quicker logging more of the hours vital for promotion to captain. Good on you Tom4. Was once in a similar position but got slated by coworkers stating that I was driving up the pressure on others that had a life outside work, and it was not fair to older employees that couldn't keep up. Left shortly after. In the next company I quietly had a word with management and they scheduled me for some extra.

[Meester proach]

Ah, the innocence and stupidity of youth.

Give it ten years when you've had enough of being flogged relentlessly and you may just decide , " be careful what you wish for ".

Or you can grow up and get a life outside work.

[RAT 5]

There's aviating, sitting in the front seat, as a passenger, watching the fluffy clouds go by, romancing at the stars on your 4th night flight, wondering how the sun sank in the same window as it rose, wondering when you will get a chance to stretch your legs and get some blood flow into your muscles, wondering why your eyes feel so dry and your skin so greasy, watching the nose of the a/c follow the magenta line, watching the auto thrust control the speeds small deviations, watching the FD stay centred all the time, listening to the snores of the guy in the other seat who succumbed to the efforts of saying awake, watching the a/c follow the ILS to 500' and you doing exactly what ATC tell you to do (worse than being married) then an OMG moment as you need to sharpened up and disconnect it all to create a controlled arrival. You then spend a few moments trying to remember were you've parked you are on this day, not yesterday.
And then there's real flying. If you really want to fly lots & lots and be a real commercial pilot then join Highlands & Islands or go island hopping in Caribbean, or float plane flying in Scandinavia or west Canada, or fly for Suzi in Indonesia, or go to Botswana and fly the bush, or go to Air Alaska battle the elements. Live simple & have fun. Or you can strap an aluminium tube to your backside for hours on end and hopefully pay the mortgage and a decent car and finish with a retirement pot after 40 years with the piloting skills of a rooster and wonder what happened to the hobbies of our youth and the first 2 wives.
But hey, go for it and all success.

[TheMightyAtom]

But honestly I would like to fly more (do not judge me because of this), I heard that in ryr you will get 900hrs per year "with out" mercy as FO. I have got 800hrs in my last 12 months but I would like to fly more. ->this is the reason


I have the better part of a decade in Ryanair. I will tell you what I believe an overwhelming majority of Ryanair pilots would tell you;

I would STRONGLY advise against joining Ryanair because you want to fly a few more hours.

I would fairly strongly advise against joining for any reason except impending financial ruin.

They couldn't possibly care less about staff. If you get cancer, they'll ring you every few months - they wont ask how you are, they will only ask when you can get back to the line.

You will be treated extremely rudely by crew control/rostering/anyone you have contact with. I know some who was denied parental leave for their child being born, because they hadnt worked there long enough (they had worked there for several years but Ryanair had recently, and without many options, changed their contract).

You get paid wrong - "ah Yeah, well you'll get the rest in next month's pay or the month after" - "next month? Wait that doesn't sound*other guy hangs up*

People on the outside always reply to these things "ah sure well it's not great there, but I can live without being cuddled and babied by an employer"

Those that join, without exception, change their tune when they experience the misery Ryanair has to heap on people seemingly randomly.

Most of your terms and conditions, except the very low basic pay (€20-25k for FOs and €60-70k for Captains)- are non-contractual and subject to change at a moment's notice.
I.e 5/4 roster (how's that going), annual leave (hahahaha), sector pay (upto >50% of your income, depending on rank). So on and so forth.

Ever been fatigued (now I'm into dangerous legal ground)? Nobody has, Michael says it's impossible. Even when you are sent out of base for months at a time.

I could go on.

That is why they're stuffed, don't believe the spin; they are very stuffed. It is not business as usual.

[AgainstTheMachine]

TheMightyAtom / Vokes55 speak the truth.

My husband worked his ass off for O'Leary for seven years. He came to the end of his tether (could write reams as to the reasons why but you already get the gist of attitude towards their 'contractors' in this and other threads) and left 18 months ago.

Shortly after leaving a brown envelope turned up on our doorstep....HMRC were investigating us for tax fraud. It was no coincidence, I know, and am communicating with, other pilots who have encountered the exact same treatment. On leaving they received the brown envelope too....

Ryanairs attitude - you dare to walk away? then we will dob you in to HMRC so you can battle with the tax man following the way in which we instructed you to join as 'self employed' ..... honestly, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Please, don't even consider joining Ryanair.

[zerograv]

Was once in a similar position but got slated by coworkers stating that I was driving up the pressure on others that had a life outside work, and it was not fair to older employees that couldn't keep up. Left shortly after. In the next company I quietly had a word with management and they scheduled me for some extra.

Voilá ... Everyone was happy !
-The coworkers on the previous outfit were happy that you left ...
-You were happy as you finally had the opportunity to be hero and stand out of the pack ...

[vikingivesterled]

Except maybe management. Within a few years all my ex coworkers where either pensioned off early or moved on into contracting. Helped on their way with some short-term economical incentives that was a financial win for them but not the profession.

[wisecaptain]

As a Capt in FR on a FR contract based in the UK , what happens at age 60? I was told that this contract expires and you revert to just the self employed hourly rate type of deal.
Is this correct or is the FR contract maintained through to 65 if desired?

[The Range]

So, I have to pay for coffee and water, then I'll burn more fuel.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-14/ryanair-s-low-cost-soul-at-stake-as-pilots-gird-for-union-fight

[800driver]

As a Capt in FR on a FR contract based in the UK , what happens at age 60? I was told that this contract expires and you revert to just the self employed hourly rate type of deal.
Is this correct or is the FR contract maintained through to 65 if desired?

FR contract through to 65. There are a few guys on a FR contract over 65.

[Harves]

Re Ranges Bloomberg article. I must say the arrogance of Mr Barry Norris’s comments is rather astonishing. In what way are the Ryanair pilots massively overplaying their hand? It seems to me that 400,000 unhappy passengers as a result of a little boo boo associated with a tad of a hiccup with pilot leave, might just lend a touch of weight to the slim possibility that just maybe, pilots are quite useful to an airline, dare I say it, even crucial.

The argument that love or loathe, Ryanair and by association O’Leary have been a successful model, is not deniable. Indeed, there is no reason to say that this success should not continue. But to effectively say by implication that pilots are overplaying the influence that they have on that success indicates to me a level of arrogance because I doubt very much that in his position it is naivety. If you accept the premis that pilots do have an influence on any success, it follows that they have an equal influence over failure. If it is true that shareholders would rather see flights grounded for 6 months than a unionised workforce, it also indicates a level of ignorance as to how successful unionisation can and I reiterate CAN be. I will be honest, I was wary of joining BALPA and indeed there are still huge flaws, but it at least made my company look at itself. Of course we can discuss many other issues of the other benefits and equal forms of cover, but this isn’t my point. It is more that a unionised airline can still be successful and beneficial to all.

My final point and I’m aware I’m starting to ramble, is that the pilots thus far have shown incredible restraint and in fact I’m sure the general populous would be astonished to hear the pay rises that are being turned down. Those that do know are likely saying that pilots must be massively overpaid already then. The point they would be missing is that this isn’t all about money. Going back to my company, a few years back it was not a happy ship. Pilots were leaving at a high rate and those that remained were constantly fearful. This isn’t about my company though so I won’t go into the ins and outs, but suffice to say, with BALPA in place although generally in the background, things changed very rapidly. Yes, we did get a generous pay rise, but far from industry leading, and yes, we did get a couple of perks thrown in, but nothing to shout about, but the main thing was the cultural shift. We felt less and less, day by day that we had to fear the management, that sim sessions would be fair, promotions genuinely on merit and a feeling we could report genuine errors openly and we would be dealt with justly. This was more about the right people in the right job than anything. The result of this is that although we know (if you believe the offer) that we could make significantly more money moving to Ryanair, I know of nobody considering such a thing. We are recruiting easily and retaining more than we ever have. This is quite a statement knowing what is on offer out there now in the industry.

To sum it up, the pilots are far from being greedy and are seeking fairness, security and stability as their priority beyond money. This has been clearly demonstrated by the lack of uptake of the offer on the table. Essentially, I believe their hand is as strong as they chose to make it, in fact, no significant hands have been played yet. I think the players have only just been dealt their cards. We will see just how strong the pilots hands are in due course. I’m certainly looking forward to the river card.

[Rated De]

Ah, the innocence and stupidity of youth.

youth is sadly allocated incorrectly (wasted) on the young...

[thebeast]

FR contract through to 65. There are a few guys on a FR contract over 65.

I am not so sure about this as the contract states 60!

[JW411]

Not Ryanair I know, but my last company contract stated that the normal retirement age was 60 but, in exceptional circumstances, this could be extended to 65 with the agreement of both parties. I flew until I was 65.

[SID PLATE]

The RYR contract expires at age 60. After that you can ask to continue working. The contract is then renewed on an annual basis up to age 65, or until you decide
to stop working before that age.
You can't fly a two crew aircraft with both pilots over age 60, and once over 65 you can't fly a commercial flight with passengers down the back, although you can operate ferry flights.

[Tom4]

Dear colleagues,

I would like to say thank you for your answers!

I try to make overall view about the real situation in ryr and thanks to you it is possible. As I told I can totally understand that every man has different opinion, different personal, family and life situation, so maybe not all of pilots wants same conditions and lifestyle.

[VJW]

Foss - would you let me know when you’re calculating your 700 hours from. Would you kindly let me know if you can, how many you’ve done from both Jan 2017 until Dec 2017 (full calendar year) and separately Mar 2017 until Dec 2017 inclusive.

Cheers

[blueonblue]

Was a long time at FR. The fatigue thing was handled in the most idiotic fashion I've ever seen. They actually quoted some nasa scientist and told us how we couldn't be tired at all and then they went into stupid mega mode. They actually produced OFDM data showing the level of events per sector company wide during 4 sector early shifts. It showed a remarkable spike in sector 3. The voiceover clown then actually says 'this shows that there is no fatigue issue'. My first observation was the exact opposite, this clearly showed there was as that's exactly when you start getting tired on a four sector day. I believe nasa found out about this and told them to wind their necks in..

Also that guy above is absolutely spot on, I was treated like absolute :mad: and they constantly underpaid me. I had a real idiot base capt too which made things worse. I would say anyone who joins Ryanair now is mad.

[South Prince]

Hi, I've been in Asia and ME flying narrowbodies, now flying in Europe with no overnight flying, do you have and idea of fatigue levels flying narrowbodies in Asia and the Middle East with up to 3 consecutive nights in a 6-7 day period? I'm not saying fatigue is not an issue in FR but please I totally disagree with your statement. Regulators around the world should change this, airlines are just taking advantage of what regulators allow them to do. Our fight should not be with our employers but regulators instead.

[feeso]

Dear maggot738, many thanks for the explanation. May you shed some light for OCC course for rated joining captains. I have a joining date on the 8th of January and I was surprised that I have to pay for my accommodation at EMA, uniforms and transportation etc...
is this the normal style here?

[feeso]

Well, I joined as a DEC. Wish I had never entertained the idea in the first place. I agree with earlier posts, the training is not good at all. The trainers that I have experienced do not know the Boeing manuals, but are experts in Ryanair SOPs etc. In fact, Ryanair training guides apparently take precedence over the QRH. Most DECs that I joined with have either left, leaving or applying for other jobs..... all within 12 months of starting.... the proof is in the pudding as they say.

So shall I turn the other way and run? I was bombarded with emails and applications that I have to fill today in order to join in 2 weeks. I started stressing even before joining. daaamn

[feeso]

I am really disappointed as I thought that I landed a table and secure job, finally. It seems am going to return to doing summer contracts... sh@$

[blueonblue]

Anyone joining Ryanair also needs to consider that they are joining a company where they actually have a position called ‘chief people officer’ (and think that’s normal) and in that position a person whom I would say would be as far removed from that title as it could possibly get. As long as that individual is even in the company you’d be mad to join or stay. I see he’s changing spots quick style in the media yesterday, which is true to form as he’s no doubt aware that there’s regime change in the air...

[Alsacienne]

FR is short of pilots, and will do anything to get them - hence your being bombarded with emails and application forms - especially if they are 'qualified' to FR requirements so they don't have to spend money on conversion courses or getting you to toe the company line.

Summer contracts might be heaven in comparison to the 'esprit de corps' (or lack of it) currently in FR.

[RHINO]

feeso...are you for real?

Are you not getting the signing on bonus for being type rated?

[Vokes55]

Anybody still considering joining this outfit should have their medical revoked as they're clearly not mentally secure. How much negative coverage do they need before people realise that Ryanair is not a good place to work, desperate or otherwise. I'd sooner be unemployed than return to these vile bottom feeders.

Just my opinion of course.

[feeso]

RHINO... THEY SAID IT SHOULD COME WITH THE 1ST MONTHS SALARY... do you have any good news to shed about the fear we have been talking about?

[feeso]

I thought the bonus is for me to enjoy and not to spend on accommodation while training for them... Am I right? does anyone know how much a Captain NETS monthly if a STN base? please so answers .. according to my calculation, it is between 5500 and 6000 Euros...thank you in advance

[Lazydogg]

£119k for Captains assuming you do 700 hours. However you will do more than that.

Just under £6k net roughly.

[MaverickPrime]

The net was £5500-£6000 before the cancellation crisis. Surely this should be higher now with the new pay offers?

[Graybulls]

“Anybody still considering joining this outfit should have their medical revoked as they're clearly not mentally secure.”


How very harsh.........I have recently been made redundant after over 19 years service with Spotty M, and as far as I can see the only outfit offering jobs at my current base are RYR. I have a family, kids at my local school, yes I could have tried to follow some of my ex colleagues to Heathrow, Keflavik, Budapest, Gatwick, Vietnam, Doha, etc, etc.

But called me old fashioned, I quite enjoy seeing my kids grow up, so I elected to stay at my home base, instead of opting to commute to southern England or further afield.

There are several of us who have joined, we started over a month ago, we’ve come here with our eyes open, but so far it’s been fine (and yes the joining bonus is paid in month 1!)

We all have different priorities in our personal lives, mine happens to be my home life with my kids, and we therefore make different choices along the way. I would certainly not criticise another professional for taking a path that differs from mine.

[skyflyer737]

Stansted net salary for Capts since the new deal is about £5000 plus average £1600 sector pay - so around £6600 net per month.

Not too bad for about 17 days work a month and a 5/4 roster.

[feeso]

Thank you for the info. guys. really much appreciated. Isn't it a bit on the low side specially living in London? i am not being iffy. i am just inquiring as I was living in Asia for the past 7 years and I forgot how its like back in Europe.

[Boeing 7E7]

Stansted net salary for Capts since the new deal is about £5000 plus average £1600 sector pay - so around £6600 net per month.

Not too bad for about 17 days work a month and a 5/4 roster.

-Is this as a ‘contract pilot’ or a Ryanair employee?
- what is the company pension contribution?
- do you get LoL?
- private medical insurance?
- Private Health Insurance?
- free uniforms?
- company pay for Aircrew Medical?
- share save schemes?
- etc

If you add all these up and then take it away from the net figure quoted, I think you will find that Ryanair’s total remuneration is woefully low - in comparison to other comparable airlines.

[Mikehotel152]

Thank you for the info. guys. really much appreciated. Isn't it a bit on the low side specially living in London? i am not being iffy. i am just inquiring as I was living in Asia for the past 7 years and I forgot how its like back in Europe.

It's not in London. If you want to work at LHR or LGW you will need to earn an extra couple of grand a month just to afford the much higher house prices!

[Lazydogg]

-Is this as a ‘contract pilot’ or a Ryanair employee?
- what is the company pension contribution?
- do you get LoL?
- private medical insurance?
- Private Health Insurance?
- free uniforms?
- company pay for Aircrew Medical?
- share save schemes?
- etc

If you add all these up and then take it away from the net figure quoted, I think you will find that Ryanair’s total remuneration is woefully low - in comparison to other comparable airlines.

If you were any way informed you would know that it’s £119 to £125 as a Ryanair employee. It’s about 137k as an LTC as a Ryanair employee. The pension is 8k contribution for Captains and the company match another 8k. This is the PRESENT situation.

The LOL and other benefits that are plainly missing as you mentioned are high on the unions agenda across all the countries that are in talks. If they are successful in attaining these benefits then we will have a situation where coupled with the money and roster, there won’t be many outfits that can match it as an overall package regardless of how much you hate the paint on the side of the aircraft.

Let’s see in a couple of months are you saying the same thing and then let’s make your comparison.

[Boeing 7E7]

I think you misunderstand me. I WANT Ryanair to have all of those things and MORE. I am on your side. Unless and until this is the case, then every airline pilot in all European airlines will suffer the consequences of Ryanair’s poor terms and conditions. And they are crap, no matter how good a fixed roster is perceived to be!

The pension contributions are paltry. Most airlines offer a percentage of the salary, significantly higher. In the region of 10-18%. EVERYONE retires one day.

It has taken the best part of 20 years for the pilot fraternity in Ryanair to realise that the power to change things is in their hands. The ones that do not stay and choose to move to other airlines, as so many have, will already be moving to terms and conditions that are significantly less than they were only a few years ago, as airlines attempt to mirror FRs poor conditions.

[Vokes55]

I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself Lazydogg, just because MOL conned the RYR work force into cancelling a pre-Christmas strike with some non-binding hot air, does not mean Ryanair are on course to become the best employers in the industry.

A leopard does not change it's spots and Ryanair will always be bottom feeders, that's the way they like it.

[Lazydogg]

I think you are getting ahead of yourself by saying the opposite. You don't have a crystal ball and nor do I. I just stated the facts we know today and followed that up by saying "let's see".

So why don't we just do that? This time next month we will be better informed I hope.

[Say Mach Number]

B7E7 theres the interesting thing YES you do get all the things you mention except the share save scheme.

Except Ryanair give it as an allowance of £6000 pa gross to pay for those things with. So after tax about £4000 ish.

Just because they are not handed to you on a plate doesn't mean its not given just in a different way.

You may not agree with the method or the delivery but its not true to say those things are not provided for.

And if you add up the numbers its not far off.

Medical @£300pa
LoL @£1800pa
BUPA @£1800pa
Uniform @£300pa?

So lets say just over £4000 ish.

If the union can get all this and I still keep my £6k then I am all for it and Im off to Vegas. Hmmm lets see red or black?

As for pension the EZY pension last time I looked was 7% so £8000 contribution from Ryanair if we benchmark Easy would be equivalent of £115k basic at the above 7%.

Again yes I would love it to be in the 10% to 18% bracket but those numbers I think you would struggle anywhere as a new start.

[dirk85]

How about SAYE and BAYE schemes, part time options, preferential bidding (early or lates), loyalty bonus, performance bonus, etc?

[Say Mach Number]

I already stated there was no share scheme.

Yes part time option 5 on 13 off

Yes preferential bidding. Some guys only do early or lates.

No loyalty bonus

Ryanair just stuck £12k on the allowances as a form of "performance bonus"

You stated etc, ok full salary if sick for 6 months, disability allowance ie if you are permanently sick and can no longer return to work. Usual pension benefits with death in service, spouses pension etc etc etc

And a biggy which people forget no redundancies, no contraction, no bad phases, no furloughing, massive opportunities for command, training positions, roster comes out on time and most importantly money paid on time.

No airline is perfect but its improving. I am just trying to give some balance to the usual bashing which doesn't always get it 100% right.

[172_driver]

Say Mach Number,

You’re speaking for the minority that’s on Ryanair contracts.

The part time offer you’re talking about is for a selected few. There are legislations in place in countries where Ryanair has bases that grants employees part time for child care and studying.

It’s been a while, but the only ones I remember that were honored with preferential rosters were the elusive trainers.

Finally, wasn’t management recently throwing a tantrum threatening to withdraw the allowance should the pilots not cooperate. How serious is that?

[Lazydogg]

The majority of Captains in the UK are permanent. And those that are not more often than not chose not to be.
Every FO at my base that applied for a permanent contract before Christmas got one.
Permanent FO in UK base can expect a P60 of about 61k
Permanent training FO (SFI) £80k to £85k.
Captain between £119k to £125k
Training Captain about £137k
Thats the situation in the UK with those directly employed with the company.

[Pilot2/b]

SFI is most certainly not on anywhere near 80K my P60 read 64k not 80!

[Lazydogg]

Figure came from a newly appointed SFI I spoke to.

Hasn’t the money gone up for SFIs?

[SeaBreeze1]

No SFI will earn anywhere near those figures since they've all been retired from flying. The pay is good if you get to fly the line to top up the pay packet - some contractor SFI's are earning the same as 2-stripers who are regularly flying. Flying 120hrs a year and spending the rest of it tucked up in the back of the sim pays very little.

[Say Mach Number]

Money has jumped up a lot for all ranks including SFI's.

Part time is not an option for new joiners as it's not a contract option until in the Company.

The Company doesn't 'offer' part time so to speak but if you do all the leg work and find a pilot to buddy up with and present a fait au complet to them they tend to go for it but if you just rock up and say I want part time they say go and find someone to share with and then come back.

Most people who can find someone (in Stansted anyway) I think have it.

[Say Mach Number]

Ps meant to say 'allowances' were always used by the Company as a 'union buster' i.e. force us to deal with unions we take hem away. However the world turned on its head a few weeks ago............

[Vokes55]

Again, let's not get ahead of ourselves. MOL claiming that he'll recognise unions is a long way from actually getting a good deal for the pilots.

Having said that, the whole industry is hoping they do - the moment the supply of qualified FOs dries up from Ryanair is the moment everyone else has to improve their conditions.

[VJW]

It makes me laugh that even as employees we state our salaries on here that include the expenses we are to use for LOL/uniforms/etc.

£119-£125k a year for a Captain in STN isn’t going to happen as we turned down the ‘new deal’. My pay before the deal is £106k including Ryanair’s £6k pension contribution, working 900 hours a year and it INCLUDES THE £6k expenses- as they can’t be arsed to give this to us free as a perk. So really it is a £100k package.

EasyJet for instance pays £105k as a basic salary, and all the things we are to spend our £6k on are added extras in EasyJet.

If you’re comparing like for like, make it so.

[Boeing 7E7]

There are quite simply too many Ryanair apologists in this thread that wheel themselves out to ‘give the other side’ of the view.

Compared to an office worker, the captains salary is absolutely amazing. Compared to a somebody who was not earning money before they joined the airline, while in college and their pilot training paid for by parents, it is super. Compared to comparable airlines the package is awful. Simple. Wake up.

[feeso]

VJW... so are you saying a captain in STN Base makes less than 6000 euros a month NET? are there some months better than other? This is too low for a captain.. I was making this as an FO in Asia.. gtg back !

[VJW]

Yup this is exactly what I’m saying, although we’re paid in pounds no euros. My pay is between £5500-£6400 depending on how many hours I fly- and I don’t pay into the pension yet.

Each to their own. Pay me double and I wouldn’t go to Asia...

[felixthecat]

Shocking really.... I left a long time ago and its basically exactly the same. I fear that the union recognition is a smoke and mirror trick to get MOL over the holiday season. I hope it's not, but I think it is..... leopards don't change their spots.

[Say Mach Number]

Yup each to their own. Our base have the new deal and my combined -salary and sector pay- take home pay last month (after tax) was £9400 and I do pay into the pension.

Yes I am on permanent contract and in the training dept.

And yes I still think I am worth more as a professional pilot.

I think Ryanair have a long way to go to improve in some areas but noone can deny they are not throwing money at the problem.

[SD.]

Money never really was the issue though, stop treating people like idiots would go a long way for starters.

Permanent local contracts, fair transparent basing policy and a decent leave system are just a few things that could improve the situation.

[Vokes55]

Our base have the new deal and my combined -salary and sector pay- take home pay last month (after tax) was £9400 and I do pay into the pension.

So you're trying to tell us that your gross salary is £198,000, or thereabouts?

I very much doubt it.

[Normal Pilot]

He isn't lying about his take home pay. I know a few TRE's in RYR who are on the new deal and are taking home £9k+ (this will include working a day off or so).

Over the year the monthly take home pay will be less than that, probably somewhere in the region of £7-8k per month for a TRE.

Pay in RYR isn't bad, as the post above states, people don't have an issue with the pay, it's all the other stuff.

[VaniosLenos]

As a line captain on FR contract (with the new increased package) and 70 hrs a month on average the take home pay is about €7000 per month. If one pays pension say €600 per month then is €6400 but in the pension fund €1200 are deposited, since the company matches it. After 3 consecutive years in the pension scheme then you take the full amount away, or if you leave before, just your money. Now deduct all other things ( loss of licence insurance, medical, parking, food and drinks on board etc), for me is about €500 per month.
So now the math is easy. Roughly €6000 in the pocket, and €1200 saved in the pension every month. Is that ok? Well for a home base, on an admittedly good roster, or whatever delivers a desired lifestyle then the glass is probably half full. Otherwise the good news is that there are plenty of options. At home and away.
This is not a Ryanair apologetic post. On the contrary. It's the facts. And of course things can get much better, on a lot of things.
National contracts, medical, loss of licence, just to name a few. Hopefully soon.

[SD.]

So you're trying to tell us that your gross salary is £198,000, or thereabouts?

I very much doubt it.

I've been reliably informed that a line CPT is on £125k, LTC £135k, TRE and Base Captains £155k give or take a few grand either way. That's UK PAYE gross figure.

[Vokes55]

Isn't this the new deal that the majority of Ryanair pilots that 'united' were urging everybody not to accept?

Sounds a bit more realistic, but £155k certainly doesn't equate to £9400 net per month.

[SD.]

Aye, that's the new deal - a chunk of those figures are probably related to 'Productivity bonus' and not engaging with unions.

[Vokes55]

So we have Ryanair pilots willy-waving about their take home pay with the new deal, a condition of which is no union negotiation, on the same page as others claiming that the unions are going to get them a 'package that's hard to compete with'. Sounds like a united work force all singing from the same hymn sheet...

Still trying to work out how £155k takes home £9400 too

[Boeing 7E7]

Well said Vokes55. The Willy waving Ryanair Pilots. Grow up. It’s pathetic.
Unless of course you are management people, who's real aim is to keep the status quo...

[VJW]

Some people in Ryanair have a seriously long month, work days off and get numerous day off payments etc etc, get paid their absolute maximum for a month and then come on pprune and imply this is there ‘average’ monthly net.

[feeso]

ok so can we all come to a conclusion... a normal line captain @ RF will make a minimum of 5500 Euros to a maximum of 6500 Euros.. off course with the new terms ...

[GScapture]

Any contract where you don’t get your food and water, medical, uniform, loss of license etc. paid by the company is absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention the pension. Sometimes it feels that some people are so “Ryanized” that they can’t tell the difference anymore.

FR puts every single money worth detail in the job advert and then sums it up as a “salary”. What an utter bulls*it. It’s a disgrace to call any of the options as “industry leading conditions”, only industry leading there is the number of people who are leaving the company.

Best decision you can do in there is to leave.