Virgin Atlantic FO payscale

[NineInchSnail]

Hey folks,

I know year 1 is 69K but what is the payscale for the first 6/7 years?

Thanks a lot in advance

[fast cruiser]

Year 6 £64,285 + £15,996 flying pay
Year 7 £65,892 + £15,996 flying pay

[Dave]

so basically....

better than BA on a per flying hour basis :D

(VS - 750hr/yr, BA - 898/yr)

[VJW]

As a LTC at a loco making £120k gross- how many years would it take to get back to that salary in VS (or BA for that matter) not including the fact I know they both have far superior 'packages' including pension and other perks. Just wondering how long it'd take to have that much in the bank each month again and how long if at all would it take to break even bearing in mind I'm mid 30's??

[Enzo999]

In BA it will take you 19 years to get to that figure and that's assuming command at some point, if your a life long F/O then make it 34 (Short haul pay scales, long haul might knock a few years off that but you are unlikely to get a long haul command before 19 years anyway). Money is no longer the reason for joining BA or Virgin.

[Job Knockey]

If money isn't the reason for joining BA or VS, what is the reason?

Is it crippling fatigue and constant jet lag? That's why I left anyway, not to mention the aeons to command....

And how long will it take to get the money back if you leave a £120,000 job? Answer: you never will. It's not just lost wages, it's the lost investment compounding time for all those extra years of money. And that is potentially huge.

[V1_cut]

Does anyone know if Virgin will consider non type rated FOs onto any of their fleets in the near future?

[Blinkz]

As a LTC at a loco making £120k gross- how many years would it take to get back to that salary in VS (or BA for that matter) not including the fact I know they both have far superior 'packages' including pension and other perks. Just wondering how long it'd take to have that much in the bank each month again and how long if at all would it take to break even bearing in mind I'm mid 30's??

in VS probably around 15 years, depending on how long it takes to get command (we've a retirement bubble approaching so current time scales will be dropping)

As has been said if you are chasing money then a Loco captain/LTC will earn more money over a career. However there is lots to take into account. VS most likely has a better pension, but also (and of course this is very much personal preference) better lifestyle. I find the long haul lifestyle a lot more pleasant then short haul loco's. But I don't have a major issue with jet lag and find the roster much more lifestyle friendly! We have at least 10 days if not more off a month and yes we are way for 2/3 days but then are off for 2/3 days after. I have more time at home now, and more rested/enjoyable time then I ever did with short haul. I couldn't work in short haul for 30 years, it would kill me! I like having a few mini-holidays a month with days off inbetween then working 5/6 days in a row with long hours and only a few days off to recover before starting again.

[Jack the rabbit]

If money isn't the reason for joining BA or VS, what is the reason?

Is it crippling fatigue and constant jet lag? That's why I left anyway, not to mention the aeons to command....

And how long will it take to get the money back if you leave a £120,000 job? Answer: you never will. It's not just lost wages, it's the lost investment compounding time for all those extra years of money. And that is potentially huge.

Which one of the two did you work for Job Knockey?

[Job Knockey]

I have never worked at British Airways.

[Ronand]

I'm in the same boat, lowcost Capt made 135k eur everything included last year, but but really fed up with the lowcost job and lifestyle. I thought about applying to virgin, would it make sense being 31 years old and joining as FO? Is the lifestyle really that much better to take this big pay cut? Any Advice?

[eckhard]

Not related to VS but 20 years ago, I was a Training Captain on B737 for a U.K. Charter airline. Joined BA as a 747FO, aged 42. 14 years to LHS Airbus. 19 years to LHS 787. (Could have got LGW SH command much earlier.)

OK, the initial pay cut was very painful but I have no regrets at all. IIRC, my basic went from £53K to £30K. Now it's £156K, but as others have said, it's not all about the money. My life-style improved no-end, the family loved the staff-travel perks and I generally felt that I had more time at home and felt better when I was there.

Difficult to give advice based on my experience as the world has moved on and who knows what the next 20 years will look like? Anyway, it worked for me and good luck to you, whatever you decide.

[Snapper5]

I'm very interested in Virgin !
Only thing that bothers me is what the future will be like without Branson?
Do guys and gals natter about it in the crew room etc..

Cheers

[prisoner24601]

Whether your interested or not. It depends whether they want you. I've been applying for years.

[Tricia Takanawa]

How many years do the increments continue for at VS?
And are the capt pay scales from PPJN accurate? Is yr 1 capt £113k +15k flight pay or £113 total?
Cheers!

[Nil further]

deleted at request of Enzo999

[Enzo999]

A bog standard 15 yr CPT at easyjet will have a P60 of somewhere around £130k if no employee pension contribution.

I paid 21% of my salary last year (company goes 7%) my P60 shows £116k

Very pleased for you, but not exactly what was asked.

[Snapper5]

Any Virgin employees willing to give an honest opinion of the job ?
Is it all as good as it seems ?

[FACoff]

Year 6 £64,285 + £15,996 flying pay
Year 7 £65,892 + £15,996 flying pay

So just to clarify the payscale then. Does the year 1 figure of 69K include flight pay?

[StopStart]

Year One FO pay is £71162, consisting of £55166 basic and £15996 flying pay.
Year 2 - £74240
Year 3 - £75699
Year 4 - £77182
Year 5 - £78712
Year 6 - £80281
Flying Pay remains fixed at £15996 every year.

Honest opinion of the place? I like it and consider myself lucky to be here. I fly with good people on decent routes in good aircraft. We are well remunerated and our pension is the best in the industry. Time to command is fair for a seniority-based airline.
There are mumbles and moans as in any airline but on balance it's a good place to work. You will obviously get varying opinions but that's mine.
:ok:

[Snapper5]

Thanks for the reply

I'm 25 and a captain, thinking what to do and if it's worth the 40k drop in pay

[StopStart]

Only you can answer that question.

I'm not going to try and convince anyone to join Virgin. Judging by the number of applicants, the job sells itself. You've got 40 years of short haul command ahead of you - do you take the hit and get on a long haul seniority list now or leave it 10 years until the pay drop is even bigger and you're even further down the list?
By the way, a large proportion of us are ex-skippers from elsewhere.

[Snapper5]

I heard a rumour that new joiners won't get the high pension contributions?

[prisoner24601]

Only you can answer that question.

I'm not going to try and convince anyone to join Virgin. Judging by the number of applicants, the job sells itself. You've got 40 years of short haul command ahead of you - do you take the hit and get on a long haul seniority list now or leave it 10 years until the pay drop is even bigger and you're even further down the list?
By the way, a large proportion of us are ex-skippers from elsewhere.

I've been applying since I had 2500hrs total in 2011 - not had an interview at al. B737, B777. I don't think its a matter of what Virgin can offer you but what you can offer Virgin!

[Enzo999]

Year One FO pay is £71162, consisting of £55166 basic and £15996 flying pay.
Year 2 - £74240
Year 3 - £75699
Year 4 - £77182
Year 5 - £78712
Year 6 - £80281
Flying Pay remains fixed at £15996 every year.

Honest opinion of the place? I like it and consider myself lucky to be here. I fly with good people on decent routes in good aircraft. We are well remunerated and our pension is the best in the industry. Time to command is fair for a seniority-based airline.
There are mumbles and moans as in any airline but on balance it's a good place to work. You will obviously get varying opinions but that's mine.
:ok:

Is the pension payable on your total pay or just the basic?

[Tricia Takanawa]

15% of the total (71k yr 1).

Shame BA can't learn a thing or two. (12% of 95% of basic salary,... Yes I'm still confused by that one. Luckily based on 24 point scale)

[Enzo999]

Yeah the pension at Virgin kicks the :mad: out of the BA one.

[cloudn9ne]

To add a bit of balance from a BA perspective there are certainly a few advantages over virgin.
1) You can fly both long haul and short haul in BA which gives you all career options. Be based at either lhr or lgw to suit your commute and fly any one of 320,380 soon to be 350, 747, 777 or 787.
2) When you get your command you slide onto your same pay point on the captains scale be it 3,7 or 20 years. In Virgin I believe when you get your command, you start on captains pay point 1 irrespective of how long you've been in the company.
3) The top pay points in BA are noticeably more money than virgin.
4) You really are a master of your own destiny in BA, you can become a training FO, senior Manager, or whatever else suits your fancy based on merit and irrespective of your time in the company. Again I'm led to believe as an FO in virgin your career options outside of line flying are very very limited.
5) seniority......now this goes two ways. Of course to start with you deal with all the crap but you know that as your career progresses you are gaining more and more control over your life. You are working towards something. In virgin with rotating seniority you could have been in the company 10, 20 years, you've done your time and you know at certain points you can't even be sure your going to get the leave you want for that wedding or family holiday but the guy that joined yesterday can.
6) Roster manipulation, Bid for what you want when you want it. You can swap as many trips as you want without getting the company involved, swap leave, bid for days off, destinations etc etc currently called bid line . This will change with the new system but we are aiming for the same flexibility with the new JSS system. Again when your new your control of your bidding is very limited but we are looking at this over ones whole career.

As a 12 year 777 FO im currently 14,15 days off per month on average, this is more than my virgin friend on 340 who seems to get closer to 11,12. Last year new joiners were getting commands on shorthaul after only 18 months in the company. The normal is closer to 5-7 years. Long haul is of course much much longer but if we are comparing to the LOCOS this would be comparing apples and pears. I contribute 6% of my salary and BA 12.6% (18.6% total) into my pension. Even if you are on the new 34 point payscale, your pensionable pay follows the 24 points and is therefore no different to mine. We have 28 days leave and about 16 wrap days per year and another 14 days off called a duty free week. This is a total of 58 possible leave days which again I believe is more than Virgin.

I left a LOCO 12 years ago at the age of 24 and have been long haul ever since, I Don't have any regrets. I have almost complete control over my lifestyle from month to month. I choose roughly how many days off I have, which days they are, where I go and when I take my leave. I can choose which aircraft I fly, if I want a shorthaul command or stay where I am dictating my lifestyle on long haul. If I become a training FO, a manager on the ground or if I want to go part time.

We all want different things from a 'career' but do you want to sit where you are, flying the same aircraft to the same destinations with the same people for 30-40 years or do you want options and the ability to have a say over all of those things? For me as a 20-30 year old deciding on what to do, it would be a very easy decision (BA or possibly virgin). As a 35+ year old with a family knowing I may never possibly get a long haul command it wouldn't be quite such an easy decision.

[Snapper5]

BA has never appealed to me , I have not tried to get in and probably won't .
Have a few friends there who don't like it but they are on the 34 pay scale on both LH and SH , which is what new joiners will be on .
They also say that the movement now will be very slow after the mass movement last year .
I can understand if you are on the old system and relatively senior then it's probably good !

Does VS make a profit ? I guess brexit will
Only effect the cost of things in dollars ?
As the don't do European routes ?
Mr Cruz does not fill me with Confidence either !

[Reversethrustset]

Is there not enough BA information on the BA thread? This thread surely is all about the pros and cons of Virgin (& the pay scale) not the pros and cons of BA.

[Cloud Bunny]

Can I clarify how the year one figure converts into a monthly net figure, after tax, NI, pension etc?
Currently in the Middle East and a little out of touch with the tax system back home!

[Tricia Takanawa]

Approx £3800 for 6% pension contributions. Allowances for down route on top.

Childcare vouchers, cycle to work, and non-standard tax coding will affect this a little.

[Snapper5]

3800 ? Would of thought it would be more than that

[Cloud Bunny]

Approx £3800 for 6% pension contributions. Allowances for down route on top.

Childcare vouchers, cycle to work, and non-standard tax coding will affect this a little.

Hmmm...bugger. Thanks for the info! 👍🏼

[JliderPilot]

Basic income tax calculator here:

Income tax calculator: Find out your take-home pay (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/)

[Time Traveller]

I know from experience, E/W long haul flying with just 11-12 days off per month is unbelievably fatiguing in the long run. More so than typical SH rosters. I'm much happier in the latter.

[StopStart]

As I said, I have no particular interest in convincing anyone to join Virgin over and above any other company.

Snapper5 - new joiners are on the same pension deal. Cadets are on different benefit structure during their cadetship period so only receive a max of 10% company contribution. They then revert to the 15% scheme.

Cloudbunny - this website (https://listentotaxman.com/71169?pension=6) is handy for calculating net pay. Remember we have allowances paid to us as well, on a trip by trip basis. As with all UK airlines the way these are paid and taxed is currently being reviewed by HMRC however at present we receive an additional USD600 - 1200 a month depending on destination & frequency. If you're hoping to maintain your salary standards from the Middle East you really need to be looking at UK DEC SH jobs. As you're well aware, there's a reason they pay a premium in the ME!

Cloudn9ne - thanks for the info on BA; I'm glad that you're happy with the choices you've made, as I am with mine. Just for completeness I'd respond:

1) Correct. Virgin is a longhaul airline. We have LHR, LGW and MAN bases. The MAN basing options suits a lot of people.
2) Also correct. When/if you get your command at VS you move to the level 1 captain pay. Which is obviously a pay rise on any FO pay. Again, we're a long haul only airline so there are no options for an early command on SH. If however you want a long haul command at BA you have something of a wait in store.
3) True story although how many senior skippers are on full time contracts? The higher salaries at BA on part-time of a 900hr contract aren't that far off those of a full time 750hr contract at VS. Don't get starstruck by the ££££ signs at the top of the scales - by the mid-fifties onwards most people are doing whatever they can to reduce the amount of work they have to do!
4) We have FO TRIs, groundschool instructors and managers. Like BA. If that sort of thing floats your boat....
5) That argument cuts both ways old chap. Our rotating bid groups make it all a lot fairer overall. That's how the the 7 month FO I've just been away with got his Christmas Leave bid for this year approved.
6) We have bidding options and swapping. True your system is currently much better, especially in terms of sector swapping and automated swaps. The ability to do that is a function of the size of BA. We're much smaller so things are a bit more mandraulic. I hope it works out for you and you don't lose that flexibility but ultimately JSS is just a preferencing system like Carmen. It's going to favour the company.
I'm a year 5 747 FO. I have 15 days off this month, had 17 days in Aug and 13+4 days leave in Jul.

The other thing I'd add (ribbingly) is if it's that good at BA why do we always get a slack handful of BA folk joining us each time we recruit?

Time Traveller - Long haul is indeed fatiguing; we're lucky in that we have a 750hr contract and various time-in-seat/min days off agreements to protect us. You're right though, LH isn't for everyone. By way of comparison, I found repeated days of SH multi-sector days to be more ruinous. We're all different.

Folks, I'm happy to answer questions about VS. I'm not going to try and sell it to you and won't do an in-depth "compare and contrast" against other U.K. airlines. FYI I'm a late 40s, ex-military, ex-UK loco SH, year 5 FO on the 744. Generally v happy with my lot in life currently.
Except that the bloody stepkids won't tidy their bedrooms.

[Snapper5]

Stop start

Thankyou for the info ! Much appreciated!

Just a few questions

Are there any rumours floating around regarding Bransons share reduction ?

How does the union work at VS ? Is it a strong one ?

Cheers

[Tricia Takanawa]

Is the time to the LHS still around 10 years as per PPJN?

[Count von Altibar]

The union is strong at VS. Hang on is that the minority one or the majority one, I think it's the minority one? I have a few friends at VS and they don't paint the same picture as the chap above. They say it used to be good years ago but things have slipped quite a bit in recent years. I think without the Delta link things could potentially be a lot worse. It's hard to compare VS with BA they're very different entities in many ways not least in size and size matters in aviation.

[cloudn9ne]

Sorry folks didn't mean to get into a Virgin v BA debate.

There were a number of mentions of BA before I wrote my post hence my contribution.

Best of luck in your decision.

[Snapper5]

I believe that Delta has a fleet of around 850 aircraft that plus Virgin must make it bigger than IAG ?
Surely with just 2 airlines involved instead of IAGs multiple airlines it seems much less of a mess.

[Icejock]

We are well remunerated and our pension is the best in the industry. Time to command is fair for a seniority-based airline.
There are mumbles and moans as in any airline but on balance it's a good place to work. You will obviously get varying opinions but that's mine.
:ok:

It is good but hardly the best in the industry. It doesn't not compare to the pension schemes in Scandinavia for instance.

[Enzo999]

And are these Scandinavian pensions still open to new joiners and which companies are you referring to? I can't imagine the new "Irish" SAS pension is up to much.

[Tricia Takanawa]

Sorry to ask again...

Is the time to command still around 10 years?

Not having the best rep in the business regarding job security, how do people feel now that Delta are basically running the show? Im guessing a lot more positive? Does anyone worry that they might pull the plug/asset strip the LHR slots etc? Obviously no body can know, but being on the inside you get a feeling of the direct that the business is taking.

Thanks for the answers in advance!:ok:

[Magnus456]

Can anyone speak from recent experience, how long Virgin take to reply to your initial application?

appreciate it probably depends slightly on if you are in the yes/no/maybe pile of CVs

I have read on previous virgin threads that it can be a considerable wait...

[Skornogr4phy]

Same question here. Do they always respond, even if it's a no, or are you just left hanging?

[A38lephant]

Yep, they always respond. Wait time is very variable depending on how many applied, how long it's open for etc.

[Skornogr4phy]

That's good to know, thank you.

[Iver]

Sorry to ask again...

Is the time to command still around 10 years?

Not having the best rep in the business regarding job security, how do people feel now that Delta are basically running the show? Im guessing a lot more positive? Does anyone worry that they might pull the plug/asset strip the LHR slots etc? Obviously no body can know, but being on the inside you get a feeling of the direct that the business is taking.

Thanks for the answers in advance!:ok:

Delta is the most profitable airline in the world. I imagine this is beneficial to the airline in terms of bulk purchasing and best practices. Too bad VS pilots can't match the Delta pilot pay - I met one senior 20-year 767 FO (MAN layover) who made $400K last year!

[El Capitano]

And why do you think is that?

Because the US pilot unions are by far more united and stronger than us wimpy unions in europe.
Stand up all together, be unionosed all together!
We in Europe only mown p, but do not act!
We just let it happen!

Don,t complain after. Vote, go on strike and stay on strike till greedy management gives in.

[pilotting]

hi all,
i was wondering what a typical roster is for a Virgin Atlantic FO on 787? how many days away and how many days off.

Are there also flights longer than 4 days?
are there any plans that VS will also add holiday destinations to the 787 devision? such as carribean, which is now on the airbus fleet?

Thanks,.

[Magnus456]

Any Airbus rated people heard anything?

Non Monarch people that is...

[Skornogr4phy]

It's been a month and I've not heard a peep.

[sangiovese.]

The recruitment ads always run for a certain time and are then withdrawn. I guess today was the day for airbus to close. No doubt the monarch one will stay for a while longer. The team reads all cvs regardless hence it can take some time to receive an answer positive or negative. No monarch conspiracy I'm afraid, just giving people a chance after their difficult week. It'd be nice if the rest of the airline businesses thought similar.....kudos to the other companies giving monarch crews a lifeline though too.

Edited to add monarch pilots will go through exactly the same process as any other applicant, that's the role of HR to ensure a level playing field

[Start Fore]

Well said!

[TitanCadetScheme]

On Friday, several of us from Titan Airways went to LTN to meet our Monarch colleagues. All of us came away thinking what a great group of people you are.

We enjoyed meeting you and want to thank you for taking the time to talk with us.

Whilst we do not have jobs for all displaced Monarch crews, we are very much looking forward to seeing a good number of you - starting from Thursday - over the coming weeks at our assessment days and simulator sessions along with the other "non Monarch" applicants. All applicants will be treated identically.

[Cuillin Hills]

Excellent post and excellent ‘nom de plume’, G-DAJB!

[MaximumPete]

Not wishing to drift off the original thread but as money and pension features quite a lot I'd strongly advise that you keep an eye on your annual and lifetime tax allowance or you could get clobbered big time.

[Nearly Man]

There's been good people who have been waiting a long time for Virgin to open up recruitment and now it's been closed to them.
'an exceptional glut of quality supply' There's already a glut of quality supply that have applied already.

The Monarch guys weren't that interested in Virgin before now should get preferential treatment?

I do feel sorry for the Monarch guys but I don't remember anyone offering me any breaks when I was made redundant from GSS, especially not Monarch!

[pilotting]

Last week i noticed that on the application overview at virgin jobs... the status was: ...closing...
(While 787 current status is: open.
In other words, they indicated at least 5 days in advance that it was about to close...

Take into account that there are subtantial pilots (eg easyjet) with 320
Ratings... so they prob received an overload on cv's. And therefore closed it so soon.

[Dan Winterland]

I do feel sorry for the Monarch guys but I don't remember anyone offering me any breaks when I was made redundant from GSS, especially not Monarch!

It's not about altruism, it's all about supply and demand. There's a significant shortage of quality experienced pilots right now. And all of a sudden, 400 become available!

[Nearly Man]

Well, watch this space. There might be more openings for Airbus rated guys and less so for the 787 very soon due to circumstances.

[Tricia Takanawa]

Are they selling their 787's? Or ordering more 'buses?

[sangiovese.]

No and no. 3 more 787 to arrive in the new year. Just a bit of route shifting between types going on at the moment

[Like a G-LEX]

For all the guys upset about ex Monarch pilots having "jumped the queue" as far as I am aware they are just getting their applications fast tracked because they have no notice period. They are not being guarentee'd jobs you may or may not feel entitled to.

Infact having spoken to a few of my mates from Monarch they would gladly swap someone's secure A320 job for their supposed "enhanced" recruitment opportunities.

[Captain Spam Can]

I've heard the ex Monarch have start dates with Virgin, any ex Monarch get interviews or PFO emails yet?

[patm92]

Anyone heard anything recently (Non ex-Monarch)?

Secondly, are the Monarch guys being given start dates?

[Skornogr4phy]

Just got an email saying thanks for being patient, the Monarch guys are being prioritised but we will get to all the applications eventually. C'est la vie

[ivanissue]

Nothing for me either other than a rejection. Though, I'm probably too old to be of interest to them.

[prisoner24601]

No patience email for me....nothing

[RoyBoy20]

Is it just a Heathrow Base on offer or is there the possibility to move to Gatwick or Manchester?

All pilots are based at LHR with a crew shuttle provided to/from LGW. MAN base can be requested once in the airline.

[trotts]

Chaps,

As one of the oh-so-lucky ex Monarch pilots to have woken up 3 weeks ago without a job I am very grateful for the support from across our industry. Most fellow pilots have been incredibly sympathetic and supportive.

I have some questions on part time roster with VS -

What part time options are on offer?

Do any of the options give the ability to live remotely and work, say, for the first or last 2 weeks of a period and guarantee longer periods off between trips?

Many thanks for the continuing support guys.

[4engines4longhaul]

Evening Trotts

Part time is 85/75/50% which is 23 on 7 off, or 20 on 10 off, or 16 on 14 off respectively but the 50% might be 15/15 but not sure.

There is a large waiting list at the mo running into several years so don't hold your breath!

All the best

[Busta Level]

Chaps,

As one of the oh-so-lucky ex Monarch pilots to have woken up 3 weeks ago without a job I am very grateful for the support from across our industry. Most fellow pilots have been incredibly sympathetic and supportive.

I have some questions on part time roster with VS -

What part time options are on offer?

Do any of the options give the ability to live remotely and work, say, for the first or last 2 weeks of a period and guarantee longer periods off between trips?

Many thanks for the continuing support guys.

No part time on offer for new joiners, but once you're past your probation period (or the first year, I can't remember which) then you can apply for it. However, the queue is currently around 4 years long, across all fleets, and is only getting longer!

There are various part time offerings in place, each with their different advantages and disadvantages. But rest assured that there'll be plenty of time to look into them all and consider your options way before you get the offer of part time :-)

Having said that, lots of people already on part time do live abroad and commute, in a similar way to that which you're suggesting.

I'm glad that you've found a job....we're all sympathetic to your situation, as it can happen to any of us, at any time.

Good luck!

[trotts]

Thanks to all for the replies- very helpful.

I'm not there yet!- interviewed last week and hoping to hear soon.

[ANstar]

Another BA vs Virgin thing to bear in mind is the viability of the business. I've heard VS are on track for another loss this year. How long till DL just take the LHR slots and be done with the rest? The AFKL share purchase effectively takes control away from Branson.

[AFA]

Another BA vs Virgin thing to bear in mind is the viability of the business. I've heard VS are on track for another loss this year. How long till DL just take the LHR slots and be done with the rest? The AFKL share purchase effectively takes control away from Branson.

This isn't a BA vs Virgin thread though is it?

Start your own about why BA is so much better if that's what you want to discuss.

[Pizzacake]

The virgin brand is actually one that seems to be liked in the US, so I'd hazard that the joint venture would work on making virgin more efficient and working into profitability rather than just grabbing slots.

[VinRouge]

No reason not to think that Delta are happy to loss-lead VS to ensure the rest of the operation remains profitable. I thought this was one benefit of codeshare and partnerships? Without VS, Delta would be short the clients who prefer the VS brand to Delta.

[Burpbot]

BA boring air???

[cessnapete]

Worth noting any aspiring Virgin pilot applicants.
At present many problems with VS crewing. Ongoing non resolved Industrial Action by some Virgin pilots, are causing day to day crew shortages, and continual rostering disruption. BALPA members supporting a viable operation at the moment preventing further losses to the Brand, or Delta losing interest.
On the Airbus fleet last minute roster changes, days off disruption, some even contacted en route to work or on arrival, makes for a consequential less than stress free flight deck atmosphere.
Multiple consecutive two pilot Atlantic nightstops, exacerbated by lack of dual qualified crew on A330/340, leading to fatigue and high short-term sickness, hence crew shortage.
Apparently there is very little support from Flight Crew Management,who are largely uncontactable.

[pilotting]

Thanks for your info. Do you have any example of crew schedules? On the bus and 787? All 24hrs stops? Or also 48? And how long you will get off? Thanks In advance !

[StopStart]

Do you work at Virgin cessnapete?

[CABUS]

No I don't think he does. But it's always nice writing your own reports.

[cessnapete]

StopStart

No I don’t, but I know a person who does!

[superstall]

I work for Virgin on the Airbus. I am dual 330/340. It is certainly busy at the moment but my roster is stable. I do not believe that it is any where near as bad as described a few posts up

[sangiovese.]

Its a bitter post, sorry but he obviously doesn't work for VAA. Move along

[farefield]

The industrial action of which he speaks is to "fly your roster", nothing more. If that's causing a problem then the establishers need their a**es kicking.

[cessnapete]

Not bitter at all! Just passing info to possible VS joiners of ongoing problems being experienced by pilots in the "other Union" who are working normally. They are disproportionately being affected by pilots "Just flying the Roster"

[Akrapovic]

What's the difference between 'working normally', and 'flying the roster' ?

[cessnapete]

Refusing to take any changes to your published roster, due weather disruption, aircraft substitution, sickness etc.etc., which happens in day to day ops in most airlines.
A polite phrase for Working to Rule in dispute parlance.

[xray one]

Just to be clear, from someone who works for the company, what you hear from a mate and what is actually happening can differ.

Is the work to rule causing problems? No. When there are open time flights are people volunteering to cover? Yes (and getting paid handsomely - including some from the PPU) Are we short of pilots? Yes. Are we actively recruiting? Yes. Is VAA a good company to work for? Yes. What's does the future hold - Who knows? Are there people queuing around the corner to join? Yes.

The biggest question you want to ask is - who in there right mind would ever want to run an airline?

[StopStart]

Cessnapete. That explains it.
I, like superstall, do work for Virgin. I’m going to stick my neck out and say that pretty much everything you’ve written about our company is :mad:

[sangiovese.]

Agreed 100% with the above

[patm92]

For those of us that got the 'please be patient email', anyone heard/ know anything about a likely timeline, I know things can change on a daily basis . . .

50 Monarch Pilots being taken by VS, with courses starting immanently. Does that fulfil there recruitment numbers for Flight Deck?

[Fred_fr]

Did anyone get a reply from Virgin after you apply ? Or they don't bother to give a reply and have too many qualified applicants, specially with the collapse of Monarch ?

[patm92]

I applied before the Monarch situation, I received an automated reply acknowledging receipt of it.

[Snapper5]

Supposedly they are looking at expanding the MAN base and maybe making it permanent!
One thing I'm nervous about is how secure is Virgin ? Especially for the MON guys .

[Enzo999]

My understanding of the situation at Virgin is this, anyone operating out of LHR will have noticed 3 787s parked with engine covers on. This is apparently because RR have made engines with turbine blades that melt, as a result 4 or 5 of Virgins 787s are going under "deep" maintenance for a few months. To cover the work load they bought 4 330s from Air Berlin hence the sudden need for 50 Airbus pilots with immediate start dates. The question in my mind is what happens when the 787s come back in to service? Will Virgin expand by 4 aircraft because if they don't they will be vastly over crewed!

[ATIS]

I hope RR are picking up the tab for this

[Fred_fr]

I applied before the Monarch situation, I received an automated reply acknowledging receipt of it.

Same as you mate wait and see:ok:

[CXKA]

I doubt they would need to do a roadshow for CX, would be surprised if they didn’t have coverage for all 330 and 777 rated slots already in the applications from those looking to exit HK!

[Captain Spam Can]

Have there been any interviews yet? And also has the moral on the line been affected by the Monarch fast trackers? Or still good moral? Cheers

[Akrapovic]

Monarch fast trackers

They'll be bottom of the seniority list

[skymonkey1]

Pay rising again by the looks of it. A friend just notified me that a 2018 4% pay increase is out for a BALPA ballot next week with an offer of a RPI plus increase for 2019. It also looks like the Virgin BALPA constitution is changing for the better and the Union is getting back on track with the replacement of the old guard with new reps coming forward. Good to see the Union making progress in VAA. A new Company Council, fresh ideas and strong Union leadership. 2018 looks like being a promising year in VAA.

[Burpbot]

Have there been any interviews yet? And also has the moral on the line been affected by the Monarch fast trackers? Or still good moral? Cheers

So why do you think the addition of former Monarch pilots would effect morale??

[Captain Spam Can]

Thanks skymonkey1 great post!

Akrapovic I was asking because of the negativity on the other thread from people in the hold pool or who applied before the monarch interviews was all. I realise they are at the bottom of the seniority list but I guess they will be above the people who applied a while back. Just wondering if anyone outside of Monarch has had interviews/start dates or the standard be patient email.

[Akrapovic]

Surely that would affect morale amongst those trying to get in, rather than those already in?

[PAPI-74]

Probably, but at least they have jobs and aren't at risk of a knock on the door.

[Tricia Takanawa]

Out of interest, does anyone know how many ex Monarch pilots VS took on in the end?

[GDAJB]

Fifty, I believe.

[Tricia Takanawa]

WOW! Good for them. Nice to see that it wasn't just 'lip service'.

[Snapper5]

As an ex-monarch I am incredibly grateful for All at Virgin for taking us on board !

[Enzo999]

I don’t think Virgin have done anything amazing, they had a sudden need for 50 Airbus rated guys with imideate start dates, if that need had not arisen they would not have given anyone a job, why exactly are we blowing smoke up their arse?

[Snapper5]

I disagree , people wait a very very long time to get a job with Virgin , even guys from Your outfit (BA) try and get across . For virgin to bypass guys with applications in already who are already Airbus rated is a very very strong thing to do . As I said , thankyou Virgin and I hope the guys in the pool understand that we are incredibly grateful

[Enzo999]

They bypassed the hold pool because you guys had no notice periods to work. I would imagine there are quite a few people in the hold pool that don’t share in your delight, anyway its good news for the lucky few.

[dirk85]

It is by the way moving to read Snapper posts, back in the Monarch era and now, in endless adoration of his employers, till the bitter end.
I remember as it was yesterday when he was arguing, one week before its collapse, that Monarch not only was not in a crisis, but was actually going to expand a lot soon...
If I was an employer, I would definitely want him in my company :}

[xray one]

All the negative posts, i'm sure you'd pick a fight if it was just you and your shadow in the room...take it for what it is.

[Enzo999]

I will pick a fight when I see something that is unfair and unjust and this my friend stinks. But obviously the people who have benefited or lost nothing will disagree.

[Snapper5]

Monarch was fantastic until the very end , would I do it all again ? Absolutely!
Prefer to have a few risks and enjoy my work than dredge along pretending I love my job whilst attacking people on the internet 😂.
Do I stand against good T&Cs ? Yes because I will only work for company’s with good T&Cs .
Come join us Enzo maybe we can laugh it all off over a cocktail in Antigua ?

[back to Boeing]

They bypassed the hold pool because you guys had no notice periods to work. I would imagine there are quite a few people in the hold pool that don’t share in your delight, anyway its good news for the lucky few.

Who said Virgin has a hold pool. They had opened up recruitment and were in the process of sifting through applications when MON went bust.

[Pork chop express]

Not all the MON pilots went on the 330, some are doing 744 courses so i don't think it was just AB rated pilots being available at short notice, more well trained pilots available at short notice.
I can see why some see this as unfair but none of us would turn it down if we found ourselves in the same position! :E

[Enzo999]

Monarch was fantastic until the very end , would I do it all again ? Absolutely!
Prefer to have a few risks and enjoy my work than dredge along pretending I love my job whilst attacking people on the internet 😂.
Do I stand against good T&Cs ? Yes because I will only work for company’s with good T&Cs .
Come join us Enzo maybe we can laugh it all off over a cocktail in Antigua ?

Thanks for the offer, unfortunately I am perfectly happy at BA, just like most of the 50 Monarch guys had I wanted a job at Virgin I would have applied at some point over the last 5 years. To be fair I was not picking a fight simply pointing out that Virgin have done nothing special in employing you guys, they had a need and filled it, if that need had not existed then they would have left you to rot plain and simple. You seem to fall in love quite easily snapper and it’s already bitten you once, all airlines and mangers are the same, the will treat you well right up to the point you have no value to them any more. Let’s just hope there is plenty of space at Virgin for everyone thats wants a job although I have a feeling for some it’s going to be a very very long wait.

The reason people including me get a bit wound up is because by your own admission staying at Mon was gamble, many hundreds of slightly more switched on people left and the outcome was entirely predictable, I remember telling you how it would end. But you ignored all the advice and information and stayed anyway which was massive risk that “you” took on. Now through total luck you have been bailed out by a company you had absolutely no interest in working for at the expense of others. It seems unfair to me but I guess as this does not really affect me I should keep my opinions to myself.

[ProfessorSnape]

Agree with Snapper. Monarch was class and I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat. Totally understand why you left Enzo and at the time it was a fairly popular decision. People who stayed did take a gamble and unfortunately it didn't pay off. Absolutely Virgin are not a charity but I think it's a little unfair how you are implying people don't deserve to be hired by Virgin purely because they had no interest before? It would be arrogance of the highest order for any airline management to assume all the best candidates want to work for them.

Where I think the praise is directed is not only the fact that Virgin moved quickly but also the Virgin CC who spent countless hours of their own time on the phone to all the ex-Monarch candidates to give them a heads up about the process and generally put everyone at ease through is what a very unpleasant thing to happen. Further to this they also made themselves available to chat to candidates in the reception area whilst waiting for the interview. Above and beyond their duties that's for sure. I feel Virgin recognise the quality of the Monarch product and along with several other airlines reached out to the Monarch community and tried to take advantage of that.

I'm sorry you feel Monarch bods have been hired by "total luck" but everyone put a lot of effort into preparing for the interview and there were several great people who were disappointed on this occasion. Fortunately there are other opportunities out there.

I hope you are enjoying BA and glad you got out in time. I honestly hope you never experience this as it is utterly awful.

All the best

[Snapper5]

Little do you know , I have applied to Virgin 3 times in the last few years as it is somewhere I have always wanted to end up , so I’m happy 😃 I guess you could say everything is meant to be ..... I despise that saying

[FlipFlapFlop]

The element of luck referred to above relating to those Mon guys picked up by Virgin relates to the timing. Mon went tits up during a relatively fertile period for pilot employment. This was not the case for many others in the not too distant past eg. XL.

[FoxChaRomeo]

I'm 25 and a captain, thinking what to do and if it's worth the 40k drop in pay

Little do you know , I have applied to Virgin 3 times in the last few years as it is somewhere I have always wanted to end up , so I’m happy I guess you could say everything is meant to be ..... I despise that saying

You were a Monarch Captain at 25, and a few years ago you already had the 2500 hrs to apply to VS? Despite the gentle rosters that MON used to fly?

They started 'em young at Monarch...

[Enzo999]

ProfessorSnape

Yeah sorry I was not implying the only reason you passed the interview was by luck, simply that the situation regarding the timing and Virgin’s sudden demand for 50 people was very fortunate.

Unfortunately for me this situation has happened to me before, 3 times infact and the last time I was unemployed for 12 months then lost 4 years of my life to the Middle East, so I appreciate better than most how horrible it is, hence why I left when I did.

Anyway best of luck, hopfully none of us will have to go through this kind of thing again.

[renort]

Snapper5 - you were full of it on the MON thread and it continues here. Shocking lack of maturity as well to announce your first two rostered flights at VS. I'm however glad 49 of your former colleagues have found roles.

[VinRouge]

There is always one on the crew....:E

[Nearly Man]

All I can say is sorry to the people who've been waiting for Virgin when such people as Snapper get in and then come on here bragging and gloating. What a nasty piece of work.
I'm glad you're not on my fleet. I hope you don't keep that attitude for long here!

[MikeAlpha320]

given the recent monarch hires do we think Vs will be recruiting again next year?

[polepilot]

60+ i heard AFTER monarch people so yes i guess

[skymonkey1]

looks like a good pay deal has been accepted and i have been told by a ex colleague that the CC are about to change in 2018. BALPA back on the front foot and growing. The splinter pilot union remains on the outside and imploding. Good work with supporting the Monarch guys BALPA.

[Akrapovic]

looks like a good pay deal has been accepted and i have been told by a ex colleague that the CC are about to change in 2018. BALPA back on the front foot and growing. The splinter pilot union remains on the outside and imploding. Good work with supporting the Monarch guys BALPA.

Biggest splinter group I've ever seen . . .

'BALPA on the front foot' - sounds like just the sort of rhetoric from the leadership . . . . jeez.

[skymonkey1]

ok i will bite, what exactly is the biggest splinter group doing next. another ballot, another false dawn of industrial action, yet another recruitment drive? meanwhile, in the real world....

[Nearly Man]

skymonkey. Your tiny little union that represents a tiny amount of pilots at Virgin yet makes decisions for the majority of pilots they don't represent?

The one that told every one of it's member to prepare for strike action then walked out of a room with management and told everyone there was no strike?
That's the reason there's about 120 VS pilots in BALPA and about 500+ in the PPU now.

Virgin took those Monarch guys on because they had no notice period, were rated and available. Nothing to do with your self serving BALPA chums however much you squeak!

[adolf hucker]

Wow, must be an absolute blast on the flight deck when a PPU guy is crewed up with a BALPA proponent. The silence across the Atlantic would be deafening.

Having been in 2 airlines without union representation, I find it depressing that Virgin pilots managed to generate a situation where they are effectively doing the management’s job for them, namely dividing themselves into opposing groups. The pikey management at Ryanair expend a lot of effort to achieve that goal and Virgin pilots do it for free. Like herding cats - we are our own worst enemies.

[StopStart]

Adolf - genuinely the “issue” never really rears its head at work. You get the odd tub-thumper but nobody lets union matters interfere with professionalism and general civility whilst working. There’s some good-natured banter in the bars downroute but I’d suggest it’s pretty fair to say that most people are just bored of it now. There are a few internet/keyboard warriors who’ll froth and foam about it on here or on the company forums but realistically the vociferous diehards are few and far between nowadays.

Still a great company with great people and great Ts & Cs and long may it remain so.

[skymonkey1]

Busta Level and Nearly Man

How is your splinter group going. Just got a news break from some of your VA chums. Sounds like your splinter group has splintered again. A small % of the splinter union members voted to reject a pay deal that as eh, been accepted and implemented. Brilliant. What's your next move, return the pay increase back to the airline?

Meanwhile the tiny little union that I belong as just announced further improvements for our cadets on the back of a pretty good pay deal.

I really do not see your logic but a dying to know what your next move will be?

Anyway, its not a peeing contest so lets measure success on achievements?

Postage stamp anyone?

[gnarlberg]

recruitment news for 2018? is it worth saying hello at fleming way and handing over the application personally? Im there in some weeks for a screening for another company and thought maybe give it a try. but im young, just 320 rating and just below 1000h on type

[Snapper5]

If you were that keen on joining then you would do the research yourself , it took me literally 30 seconds to find out that you require 3000hrs total and 1000 on type to join VA

[Burpbot]

Unless you join the cadet orogramme of course! Snapper by name snappy by nature! Chill give the guy a break!

[rod_1986]

Who are the Judean People's Front and who are the People's Front Of Judea again?

[gnarlberg]

If you were that keen on joining then you would do the research yourself , it took me literally 30 seconds to find out that you require 3000hrs total and 1000 on type to join VA

you really refer to pilotjobsnetwork with an entry from 2012?
guy, go home. On VA´s homepage i can find 2500/500h on type. But I don't know how old these news are, thats why im asking.

[Enzo999]

Just offer to work for half the salary they will soon drop their hour requirement then! I understand these limits were “fudged” slightly for recent joiners so you never know, keep on trying.

[Job Knockey]

Snapper,

You really do come across as a very smug, self centred, rather nasty individual.

Until the very last moments of your previous employer (until 5th October 2017), you sang their praises and ignored all the obvious - just like Canute.

You got lucky. Virgin took you on and not for the first time you’re spouting off from the inside.

I genuinely feel sorry for your colleagues. The recruitment process failed them.

[Vwon]

Given the trail of Snappers tone regarding this thread (and many others for the matter), nothing pleases me more than to see him corrected.

I echo the sympathies above to your new colleagues.

[LVL_CHG]

Does anybody have an up to date FO payscale?

If anybody has a typical FO roster that would also be much appreciated!

[sun shines every day]

Any updates please?

FO and SFO and upgrade times would be nice.

Thank you 😊