USMC KC-130 down in Mississippi

[pattern_is_full]

Conflicting info so far. Reports of in-flight breakup and debris field of "five miles" - yet one picture at least shows what seems to be a fairly complete (if now flat) airframe. Too much smoke from this angle to see if cockpit still attached.

https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc/components/video/201707/2017-07-11t00-47-05-933z--1280x720.nbcnews-ux-1080-600.jpg

[PastTense]

At least 16 people were believed dead after a military plane crashed in the Mississippi Delta on Monday, promoting an urgent rescue effort in one of the South’s most rural regions, the authorities said.

Fred Randle, the emergency management director in Leflore County, Miss., said in a brief interview late Monday that officials thought at least 16 people had died in the crash.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/military-plane-crashes-mississippi-delta-deaths.html

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeHywUeXR8

[SpazSinbad]

Sad indeed - conflicting early reports - in flight break up:

https://news.usni.org/2017/07/10/marine-corps-kc-130j-crashes-mississippi-local-press-reports-least-5-fatalities

[ethicalconundrum]

Alan Hammons, an official at Greenwood Airport, told WNCN that the aircraft suffered a “structural failure” at 20,000 feet. The Clarion Ledger reported that the plane departed from Naval Support Activity Mid-South Base in Millington, Tenn.

WTF?

[Thaihawk]

A comment on facebook indicates the crashed airplane came from VMGR-452, a KC-130T unit operating from Stewart ANGB in New York state.

[bunta130]

Strewth

'Landed' inverted.....poor souls.

[ORAC]

Leflore (le-FLOR') County Emergency Management Director Fred Randle told local media late Monday that 16 bodies were recovered after the KC-130 refueling tanker spiraled to the ground into a soybean field about 85 miles (135 kilometers) north of Jackson.

[ORAC]

It was a KC-130T, was it in an AAR mission and were any other aircraft involved?

[MPN11]

The video in Post #2 (towards the end, at 1:30) seems to indicate an absence of fuselage forward of the wings.

[patrickal]

A comment on facebook indicates the crashed airplane came from VMGR-452, a KC-130T unit operating from Stewart ANGB in New York state.

Can you point to the posting which states this? I live just a few miles from Stewart, and know several people in this unit. This is not good.

[atakacs]

16 crew in a tanker ? Doesn't quite add up...

[PDR1]

Strewth

'Landed' inverted.....poor souls.

From the look of those photos (can't see the videos from here due to firewall issues) I would suggest the impact was as near vertical as makes no difference - the momentum vector was straight down as witnessed by the very compact debris field and the (rather unusual) "trench" created by the wing impact.

Condolences to all with lost loved-ones.

PDR

[barnstormer1968]

ITV midday news were saying the FBI have started an investigation into the crash.
No mention of suspicious cause but perhaps just a belt and braces approach to cover all eventualities,

RIP to those killed, thought and wishes to surviving familes.

[melmothtw]

16 crew in a tanker ? Doesn't quite add up...

The KC designation just means that it is provisioned for tanking. The USMC use it for a lot more besides that, including troop transport.

[George K Lee]

Obviously, much too early to say much. But these days, catastrophic accidents to modern aircraft operated by first-tier operators are rare indeed, as is the variance between early and final casualty counts.

[Turbine D]

A comment on facebook indicates the crashed airplane came from VMGR-452, a KC-130T unit operating from Stewart ANGB in New York state.

Though the KC-130 refueling tanker took off from Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point in North Carolina, Marine Capt. John Roberts said the plane was under the command of the 4th Marine Air Wing, which is part of the Marine Forces Reserve headquartered in New Orleans. From the AP

[Airbubba]

A statement from the Marine Corps Forces Reserve HQ:

The Marine aircraft that crashed Monday evening was a KC-130T from Marine Aerial Refueling and Transport Squadron (VMGR) 452, Marine Air Group-49, 4th Marine Aircraft Wing, Marine Forces Reserve. The flight originated from Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, N.C., as the squadron was supporting a requirement to transport personnel and equipment from there to Naval Air Field El Centro, Calif.

The crew and passengers consisted of 15 Marines and one Navy Corpsman. Equipment on board included various small arms ammunition and personal weapons. An Explosive Ordnance Disposal team is at the scene as a precaution in the interest of safety.

The identities of the personnel whose lives were lost in this tragic accident are still being withheld to allow time for their loved ones to be notified appropriately. While the details of the incident are being investigated, our focus remains on providing the necessary resources and support to the family and friends of these service members as they go through this extremely difficult time.

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/240743/marine-corps-kc-130-crashes-killing-16

There were earlier news reports of another stop enroute, possibly Memphis, but I haven't seen this confirmed:

CNN affiliates WDBD and WHBQ, citing officials they didn't name, reported the plane had stopped in Memphis, Tennessee.

Marine Corps KC-130 crashes in Mississippi, 16 dead - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/10/us/mississippi-plane-crash/index.html)

Video | FOX13 (http://www.fox13memphis.com/video?videoId=555981421&videoVersion=1.0)

[patrickal]

A statement from the Marine Corps Forces Reserve HQ:



https://www.dvidshub.net/news/240743/marine-corps-kc-130-crashes-killing-16

There were earlier news reports of another stop enroute, possibly Memphis, but I haven't seen this confirmed:



Marine Corps KC-130 crashes in Mississippi, 16 dead - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/10/us/mississippi-plane-crash/index.html)

Video | FOX13 (http://www.fox13memphis.com/video?videoId=555981421&videoVersion=1.0)

This particular flight might have originated from Cherry Point, North Carolina, but VMGR-452, the unit the aircraft and crew belong to, is based at Stewart Air National Guard Base at Stewart Airport, Newburgh, NY.

[atakacs]

The KC designation just means that it is provisioned for tanking. The USMC use it for a lot more besides that, including troop transport.
Thanks for the clarification. My very ignorant guess would have been that the tanker mod / equipment would preclude most other uses.

[747270fe]

Looking at the video of the crash site, and the inverted wreck, it seems to show the right horizontal stabilizer and elevator snapped off several feet from the fuselage, while the left HS and elevator are intact. The underside of the left elevator and stump right elevator show heavy sooting while the underside of both stabs show none.
That would seem to indicate that the elevators were deflected in the nose down position to get sooted.

[YellowTom]

RIP to those killed.

The KC-130J can now carry and fire Hellfire missiles from under its wings as well as remove the aux fuel tank and carry pax, a very versatile if somewhat noisy aircraft!

[Thaihawk]

Can you point to the posting which states this? I live just a few miles from Stewart, and know several people in this unit. This is not good.

This updated post (and others posted here) would seem to confirm the unit as being VMGR-452.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/7100671855/

[ORAC]

Do the USMC fit cockpit or flight data recorders?

Whilst it might seem logical, there is the issue of the discussion of classified data during an operation which would make the CDR classified, meaning it was classified and had to be guarded/removed etc.

[FOG]

About ten years ago -452 almost lost a KC-130T while in flight.

Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hanger deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts.

The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck.

The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana.

This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data.

S/F, FOG

[Fonsini]

An eyewitness report stated the aircraft was just "spiralling straight down" and a state trooper has reported that the aircraft was carrying a large amount of ammunition which was cooking off in the fire.

[Airbubba]

Some Spec Ops folks onboard according to this report:

Six of the Marines and the Navy corpsman were assigned to the Marine Raiders, an elite special operations force. They belonged to the Second Marine Raider Battalion, based at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, according to Maj. Nicholas Mannweiler, a spokesman for the Marine Corps Special Operations Forces.

Major Mannweiler said the Raiders were scheduled to conduct “routine” training in Yuma, Ariz., lasting a few days to a couple of weeks, for small teams preparing for deployment overseas. He would not comment on when or where they were to be sent, but the Raiders are assigned to Central Command, which conducts operations in the Middle East, South Asia and Central Asia, including Afghanistan and Iraq.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/marines-plane-crash.html

[TRW Plus]

Can confirm that there was no active weather in the crash zone around 21z Monday, satellite imagery indicates clear skies between Jackson and Memphis and upper air charts closest to that time look benign at flight level and throughout the column.

[Thaihawk]

About ten years ago -452 almost lost a KC-130T while in flight.

Short version was one was loaned VX-10 for AR and TP training. The navy removed the wing life rafts and improperly stored them on the hanger deck. The navy re-installed the rafts w/o getting them serviced and then improperly installed/rigged the rafts.

The flight in question had TP IP and FMF instructor. At altitude one life raft deployed and wrapped around one horizontal stab and interfered with the rudder. They lost control, getting into a spin. The right seat pilot took control and recovered the acft with flight controls and asymmetric engine power. The aircraft never flew again due bent and broken major structure and thus struck.

The mishap investigation (blame passing avoidance) was along the lines Harrier in the water during Allied Farce, Hornet RAG stud in San Diego, and Osprey in Marana.

This is from memory but the KC-130F/R/T did/do not have any flight data recorders per se. The Nav systems may have some GPS/INS/track data.

S/F, FOG

Do you know the Bu number for this bird?.

I can't remember an incident where a T model C-130 was struck off.

[westernhero]

That NYtimes article down at the bottom quotes an eye witness that saw someone jump out of the aircraft and parachute to the ground. Is that confirmed or just fake news ?

[SpazSinbad]

Otherwise safety record good with a list of major accidents over 40 years here:

https://news.usni.org/2017/07/11/marine-aircraft-type-involved-in-monday-crash-has-good-safety-record

[pattern_is_full]

That NYtimes article down at the bottom quotes an eye witness that saw someone jump out of the aircraft and parachute to the ground.

A couple of stories (Marine Times, CBS) mention an empty parachute (or something similar - life raft as per FOG's post?) floating down.

Several reports mention a series of rolling low-intensity booms (like thunder) before seeing the aircraft spinning down.

One early report mentioned the cockpit section being found far from the main airframe wreckage - haven't seen that mentioned elsewhere, though.

[SpazSinbad]

Another retelling of the 'inflight breakup': Evidence From Marine KC-130 Crash Site Points to Mid-Air Disaster | Military.com (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/12/evidence-marine-kc-130-crash-site-points-mid-air-disaster.html)

[gums]

Salute!

So sad, but gotta find out why and not let it happen again if possible.

Gotta tellya that back in 'nam the grunts scared the hell outta my trash-hauler buddies. They would crawl on a 123 or 'bou with C4 bars and grenades and mucho 7.72 or 5.56 in their ditty bags. So we should not rule out unintended ordnance explosions or related. Ditto for raft deployments and other gear.

The lack of severe wx is disturbing, although the Herc is a tough bird and is used to penetrate hurricanes on a regular basis.

Ditto for CFIT, as it looks like the main fuselage hit inverted.

Gums sends...

[RAFEngO74to09]

From today's brief by Commanding General of Forth Marine Air Wing, USMC Reserve:

Tail Number 165000 built in 1993 (so one of the newer ones - last of fleet delivered 1995).

Experienced an emergency at "cruise altitude".

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/us/mississippi-marine-transport-plane-crash.html

From a former mechanic on type who is now a historian for the model:

"According to federal aviation records, the plane was damaged in 2004, when a wind storm tipped it sideways onto one wing, while it was on the ground in Fort Worth. In 2010, a storm piled so much snow on the plane that it tipped back, its nose in the air."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Undoubtedly structural checks will have been carried out after those incidents - and it would have had the equivalent of a Major scheduled maintenance since - but I can't help thinking whether there were any abnormal forces applied to the structure during either.

[BEagle]

gums wrote: So we should not rule out unintended ordnance explosions or related. Ditto for raft deployments and other gear.

Indeed. Despite the crash damage and post-crash fires, an onboard explosion would leave a clear 'signature' for analysis.

Does this model of C-130 have fuel tank inerting or explosion suppression?

RIP

[gums]

Salute!

Dunno if the USAF Talon birds have suppression, but think so. I doubt the USMC birds have such, but you never know. Shame, but my neighbor two doors down just retired from flying the USAF MC-130, but I am 1200 milles away now and can't get with him easily.

BEagle is right about forensic evidence, although seems witnesses reported many secondaries after the plane hit the field. That will complicate things unless a piece of debris from a half mile away has "traces".

Gums opines...

[FOG]

Thaihawk,

I did a quick look through my records on the MIR endorsement chain (USN to USMC back to USN) and didn’t see a copy of the BUNO. Obviously didn’t keep a copy of the MIR.

All KC-130s were retro-fitted with foam in all tanks except the fuselage in the 2004-2006 time frame.

Talked to a retired FE who is now a Lockheed tech-rep. Late 90s -252 ( Cherry Point) almost lost an aircraft on takeoff when a bleed air duct blew out on take off just missing the inboard port fuel tank by inches. Not even “C” level damage but resulted in replacing all KC-130 F&R bleed air ducts. Not sure if the Ts had their ducts replaced as they were newer acft. and a different pot of money.

S/F, FOG

[RAFEngO74to09]

Official Statement - July 12.
STATEMENT OF BRIG. GEN. BRADLEY S. JAMES, COMMANDING GENERAL, 4TH MARINE AIRCRAFT WING, REGARDING KC-130T MISHAP > Marine Corps Forces Reserves > Press Release View (http://www.marforres.marines.mil/Marine-Reserve-News-Photos/Marine-Reserve-News/Press-Release-View/Article/1245463/statement-of-brig-gen-bradley-s-james-commanding-general-4th-marine-aircraft-wi/)

[megan]

Reported in the news paper here that bodies were strewn across a highway 1.8K from the crash site.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Officials confirmed aircraft broke into at least 2 pieces in the air (presumably obvious from 2 widely separated large items of wreckage on the ground).

This media item taken from link on USMC Forces Reserve website:

https://news.usni.org/2017/07/12/marine-kc-130t-experienced-problems-at-cruise-altitude-broke-into-at-least-2-pieces

[Al R]

Back in the early 90s, a Herc that I was on, had to return to Southampton low level, because, as I recall the FE saying, there was a LOX leek. He explained that the LOX was located under the cockpit. I may have got this wrong, but I seem to recall him saying too, that an incident happened (over Australia?) in which a transporter lost its cockpit section due to the LOX cooking off. I may have got some of that wrong, he may have been spinning a yarn. But I found this picture - I'm not sure if there's any credible connection.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LOX_servicing.jpg

[megan]

an incident happened (over Australia?) in which a transporter lost its cockpit section due to the LOX cooking offRAAF P-3 A9-300 oxygen fire while on the ground 1984. Used as a training aid subsequently.

Report

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a215496.pdf

[FOG]

Official Statement - July 12.
STATEMENT OF BRIG. GEN. BRADLEY S. JAMES, COMMANDING GENERAL, 4TH MARINE AIRCRAFT WING, REGARDING KC-130T MISHAP > Marine Corps Forces Reserves > Press Release View (http://www.marforres.marines.mil/Marine-Reserve-News-Photos/Marine-Reserve-News/Press-Release-View/Article/1245463/statement-of-brig-gen-bradley-s-james-commanding-general-4th-marine-aircraft-wi/)

This is hitting close to home for Brad. He was OIC and later the sqdn CO of -452.

[cncpc]

Would a blade shedding be capable of severing the cockpit, or weakening it enough that it would come off early in whatever developed next?

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/469669-hercules-questions.html#post6974240

[Just This Once...]

On the video footage there is no apparent sign of the fin - quite a large structure on a Herc. With the aircraft impacting the ground inverted you would expect to see the fin broken to the side of the empennage.

Regarding the LOx, it is mounted well forward and low down in the fuselage in the unpressurised area surrounding the nose gear, roughly under the co-pilot's feet. It has reinforced structure around it, is free of critical components and vents to the outside. On USMC aircraft the LOx is optionally armoured and the flight deck floor above is almost always covered with armour.

[patrickal]

Would a blade shedding be capable of severing the cockpit, or weakening it enough that it would come off early in whatever developed next?

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/469669-hercules-questions.html#post6974240

I've been thinking the same thing given an eyewitness account of the aircraft in a flat spin and one engine burning/trailing smoke.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Names released by USMC.


https://www.facebook.com/pg/marines/photos/?tab=album&album_id=10154487393485194

[pattern_is_full]

I wouldn't think a Herc fuselage could be fatally damaged by a thrown prop blade. The fuselage is pretty tough (as evidenced by the fact this one is still recognizably an airframe, and not aluminum confetti, after a 20,000-foot fall), designed to take combat fire and survive, and thrown blades have passed through the cabins of "lesser" turboprops (e.g. DHC-8-xxx, ATR) without causing those planes to fall apart.

Of course, if a thrown blade hit something else, inside, (LOX, pyrotechnics), that would be a different story.

On the video footage there is no apparent sign of the fin - quite a large structure on a Herc.

I noticed that also. But that could either be the primary event, or just a result of, say, the "flat spin" patrickal mentions.

[Niner Lima Charlie]

Several news items have provided a few bits of information:
(1) One of the engines was located today, some distance from the main wreckage.
(2) Several bodies were recovered from farm fields, some distance from the main wreckage.
(3) At least one, perhaps two, open parachutes drifted down, empty.
(4) At least one parachute, still packed, was found some distance from the main wreckage.
(5) The two main impact areas are about one mile apart.

[FOG]

I wouldn't think a Herc fuselage could be fatally damaged by a thrown prop blade. The fuselage is pretty tough (as evidenced by the fact this one is still recognizably an airframe, and not aluminum confetti, after a 20,000-foot fall), designed to take combat fire and survive, and thrown blades have passed through the cabins of "lesser" turboprops (e.g. DHC-8-xxx, ATR) without causing those planes to fall apart.

Of course, if a thrown blade hit something else, inside, (LOX, pyrotechnics), that would be a different story.



I noticed that also. But that could either be the primary event, or just a result of, say, the "flat spin" patrickal mentions.

A depot was “saving” money on rebuilding -130 and P-3 props in the late 90s. This came to light after a KC-130 on exercise in Australia threw a prop from the port in-board into the fuselage. The blade was stuck in the fuselage. After repairs to the fuselage and wing it was back in service.

A Wisconsin ANG -130 on t/o from Mosul took a RPG into an engine. The crew shut down and landed safely.

Attended a brief in the 90s given by Brit harrier pilot on their shoot down of the Argentinean -130, from memory they expended multiple sidewinders plus cannon fire.

Appears to be pretty damage resistant.

There have been incidents of people taking improperly packed explosives/detonators on board helos that have gone off.

S/F, FOG

[tdracer]

While I doubt a thrown blade would take down a C130, I wouldn't be so sure about loosing the entire propeller (e.g. a fractured drive shaft) - rapidly spinning props make a pretty good saw and could cut through significant structure.

[SpazSinbad]

Marine Corps Releases Identities of 16 Servicemen Killed in KC-130T Crash 14 Jul 2017

https://news.usni.org/2017/07/14/marine-corps-releases-identities-of-16-servicemen-killed-in-kc-130t-crash

[cncpc]

While I doubt a thrown blade would take down a C130, I wouldn't be so sure about loosing the entire propeller (e.g. a fractured drive shaft) - rapidly spinning props make a pretty good saw and could cut through significant structure.

I raised that as its hard to think of something that would sever the cockpit from the fuselage, if that is what happened.

We had a case in BC a couple of years ago where a Metro went in in the North Shore mountains north of Vancouver. The cockpit was severed in that. What happened is that the wings handclapped above after a near to root failure from overstressing. This led to one or both engines sawing into the fuselage enough that the cockpit came off. Or so the story is.

More likely if the whole disc went, but do those things go sideways, or do they just go forward and then drop below?

I'd venture that the possible damage depends on a number of factors, most likely the important one being at what point of rotation it let go and if it was flung in an arc through the fuselage. If it's an outboard flung into an inboard, it could be more than one blade flying around.

The detached engine is in line with some sort of a prop problem, but certainly not proof.

I spoke to an ex RAF guy in England back in the 90's who went into flying Navajo's in civvy world. He had a prop blade come off the starboard engine, go through the nose, hit the other hub, and tore that engine right out of its mounts. The guy somehow landed it, with three or four pax, in a cornfield out by Oxford without injuries.

[Old Fella]

Several news items have provided a few bits of information:
(1) One of the engines was located today, some distance from the main wreckage.
(2) Several bodies were recovered from farm fields, some distance from the main wreckage.
(3) At least one, perhaps two, open parachutes drifted down, empty.
(4) At least one parachute, still packed, was found some distance from the main wreckage.
(5) The two main impact areas are about one mile apart.
'
Not sure of the situation in the KC130-T, but in the C130's I've operated two parachutes were stowed on the rear of the 245 Bulkhead at the forward end of the cargo compartment.

[MrBernoulli]

I spoke to an ex RAF guy in England back in the 90's who went into flying Navajo's in civvy world. He had a prop blade come off the starboard engine, go through the nose, hit the other hub, and tore that engine right out of its mounts. The guy somehow landed it, with three or four pax, in a cornfield out by Oxford without injuries.
It was actually near the town of King's Lynn, Norfolk (almost 100 miles north-east of Oxford :ok:) on 7th June 1993. The summary report is available here (https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/summary-aar-6-94-piper-pa-31-325-c-r-navajo-g-bmgh-7-june-1993).

I do recall reading a much more comprehensive online report about this accident several years ago, but I cannot recall where it was located.

[EDIT: Found it - full report on this particular Navajo accident here (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjs5-DJoIzVAhVFJlAKHUflC-UQFghMMAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fmedia%2 F5422f35ae5274a131700047d%2F6-1994_G-BMGH.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEgx7qNypr3idnLG0qff-fsk1hDkw).

"The aircraft was operating on a scheduled passenger flight from Birmingham to Norwich, with a pilot and seven passengers on board when, as the flight passed south of King's Lynn, there was a loud ‘bang’ and the aircraft immediately rolled to the right and entered a tight spiral dive, or spin. The loud bang was caused by a blade, that had detached from the right propeller, penetrating the aircraft's nose baggage bay and exiting through the upper left fuselage structure. This blade then struck and removed the front of the left propeller assembly. The right engine tore away from the wing, precipitating the loss of control, and the left engine stopped. The commander managed to regain control of the aircraft and successfully carried out a forced landing in a field of cereal crop. All eight occupants evacuated the aircraft with no serious injury".]

[cncpc]

It was actually near the town of King's Lynn, Norfolk (almost 100 miles north-east of Oxford :ok:) on 7th June 1993. The summary report is available here (https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/summary-aar-6-94-piper-pa-31-325-c-r-navajo-g-bmgh-7-june-1993).

I do recall reading a much more comprehensive online report about this accident several years ago, but I cannot recall where it was located.

[EDIT: Found it - full report on this particular Navajo accident here (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjs5-DJoIzVAhVFJlAKHUflC-UQFghMMAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fmedia%2 F5422f35ae5274a131700047d%2F6-1994_G-BMGH.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEgx7qNypr3idnLG0qff-fsk1hDkw).

"The aircraft was operating on a scheduled passenger flight from Birmingham to Norwich, with a pilot and seven passengers on board when, as the flight passed south of King's Lynn, there was a loud ‘bang’ and the aircraft immediately rolled to the right and entered a tight spiral dive, or spin. The loud bang was caused by a blade, that had detached from the right propeller, penetrating the aircraft's nose baggage bay and exiting through the upper left fuselage structure. This blade then struck and removed the front of the left propeller assembly. The right engine tore away from the wing, precipitating the loss of control, and the left engine stopped. The commander managed to regain control of the aircraft and successfully carried out a forced landing in a field of cereal crop. All eight occupants evacuated the aircraft with no serious injury".]

That's the very one. Thank you for finding that. I expect more than one reader thought it was some bull**** story.

I was in Dublin working on starting a competitor to Ryanair and this guy sent his resume in for a pilot's job. Never even mentioned this incident. I called him and eventually it came up and he was "no big deal" sort of.

I think he won some high award for airmanship. That has to be one of the top examples of outstanding airmanship in general aviation piloting of all time.

Anyways, a detached engine severed cockpit, and even if its only one blade, a lot of things can happen in that sequence.

Maybe something entirely different here.

Open chutes, blue sky where the cockpit was, an awful scenario, but maybe some grabbed chutes and bailed, without being strapped in. Pulled, but couldn't hang on. Respect to all.

[ORAC]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWllK0pFX0l/

[dragartist]

'
Not sure of the situation in the KC130-T, but in the C130's I've operated two parachutes were stowed on the rear of the 245 Bulkhead at the forward end of the cargo compartment.

Knowing that the unit was heading for China Lake and Yuma for training the parachutes may have been cargo. UK forces use both locations for high altitude parachute training and trials. YPG became a second home for quite a period.

[FOG]

Knowing that the unit was heading for China Lake and Yuma for training the parachutes may have been cargo. UK forces use both locations for high altitude parachute training and trials. YPG became a second home for quite a period.

USMC KC-130s carry 6-8 back pack (NB8s?) on the starboard fuselage, forward, along with a number of chest mount units.

It was not unknown to have personnel drop into an exercise area vice landing. Usually when USA or SOCOM was picking up the tab as that was their requirement. I don’t know if they were planning on dropping the non-aircrew then landing with the rest of their equipment, if they boarded rigged or were going to practice in-flight rigging, etc.

S/F, FOG

[PastTense]

A memorial video of those lost:
https://www.dvidshub.net/video/538070/kc-130-crash-tribute

[SASless]

USMC relieves Commander following the KC-130 crash and a lightning strike fatality of an Osprey maintenance technician.

Marine Corps Squadron Commander Fired Amid 'Loss of Trust, Confidence' | Military.com (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/20/marine-corps-squadron-commander-fired-loss-trust-confidence.html)

[atakacs]

USMC relieves Commander following the KC-130 crash and a lightning strike fatality of an Osprey maintenance technician

Sure doesn't sound good... Shall we understand that the investigation is leaning towards a maintenance issue?

[SASless]

No telling....but what it does suggest is the Marines do not play Patty Cake with Commanders when they decide to start cleaning house. Sometimes you can just be sitting in the wrong chair when bad things happen.

Give the investigation time to arrive at a cause.

[FOG]

A MWSS (Marine Wing Support Squadron) function is expeditionary airfields. Airbase ground defense, EOD, combat engineering tasks, weather, lighting, comms, fuel, chow, medical support (70 some USN medical), etc.

Only scenario where this particular MWSS CO was responsible for the crash is if they, instead of the station, improperly loaded something that lead to the loss. This CO’s relief could very well be unrelated to the KC-130 and zero connection to the lightning strike, sounds like speculation by the press. A CH-53 Co was recently relieved for cause (more egregious than loss of confidence) and this was pretty much buried due to circumstances/personnel.

I disagree that the USMC not playing patty cakes as it has failed to relieve COs who violated orders under CO’s prerogative even after being advised by their respective staffs of the specifics of the bad idea. The PR of relieving those in charge vice going after those who made the bad decisions negatively reflecting on the USMC. Aviano EA-6B, MEU (Allied Farce) Harrier, San Diego Hornet come immediately to mind. Before anyone brings up Aviano the EA-6B CO relieved for destruction of tapes ignores the actual fact that these tapes were “liberty training tapes” and not flying/duty tapes.

S/F, FOG

[Niner Lima Charlie]

https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2017/07/27/marine-corps-kc-130ts-grounded-until-further-notice/

Grounding includes "Fat Albert" the C-130 that supports the Blue Angels team.

[PastTense]

July 31, 2017.
The Naval Air Force Reserve has grounded its fleet of 23 C-130T transport aircraft until further notice amid the ongoing investigation into the deadly July 10 crash of a KC-130T in Mississippi that killed 16 service members.

The Navy aircraft are similar to the Marine Corps Reserve's fleet of 12 KC-130Ts that were grounded Thursday out of an abundance of caution because of the investigation into that crash.

"During the course of an ongoing safety investigation into the tragic Marine Corps mishap in Mississippi involving a KC-130T, an airframe similar to what is flown by our Navy Reserve, the Commander, Naval Air Force Reserve has directed an operational pause for their similar C-130 Fleet," said Lt. Russell Chilcoat, a spokesman for Navy Reserve Forces Command. "While operational lift requirements are understood, it is prudent to allow time for the investigation to provide more information on possible causal factors prior to resuming flight.

Navy grounds 23 aircraft similar to one involved in deadly Mississi.. | abc7chicago.com (http://abc7chicago.com/news/navy-grounds-35-aircraft-similar-to-one-involved-in-deadly-mississippi-crash/2257397/)

[aero_struct]

There are still no answers for C-130 crash that killed 16 | We Are The Mighty (http://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/there-are-still-no-answers-for-the-kc-130-crash-that-killed-16-marines)

[PastTense]

The horrific KC-130T plane crash (https://www.militarytimes.com/2017/07/11/16-dead-after-marine-corps-kc-130-plane-from-cherry-point-crashes-in-mississippi/) that killed 15 Marines and a sailor last summer was caused by a deteriorating propeller blade that was corroded when it entered an Air Force maintenance depot in 2011, but workers there failed to fix it and sent it back to the fleet unrepaired.This neglect allowed a routine corrosion problem to metastasize into a crack that went undetected for years until a mundane cross-country transport mission ended in flames (https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/2017/07/11/15-marines-one-sailor-killed-in-the-corps-deadliest-crash-in-more-than-a-decade/).On July 10, 2017, that worn-down blade finally failed and came loose from the propeller 20,000 feet above Mississippi farmland, as the Marine Corps Reserve plane was en route to California under the call sign “Yanky 72.”It shot into the side of the aging aircraft, one of the last 130Ts still flying, a model set to be retired in the next few years.The blade’s impact set off a cataclysm that killed everyone on board and left the aircraft in three pieces, creating inconsolable heartache for 16 military families and an inferno of wreckage scattered for miles.These revelations — along with the systemic failures in the military’s aviation maintenance system that led to the loss — are outlined in a Marine Corps investigation (https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.militarytimes.com/assets/public-release-command-investigation-report-yanky-72-redacted.pdf) into last summer’s crash that was obtained by Defense News and Military Times.The investigation’s report and nearly 2,000 pages of supplementary records portray an endemic level of neglect by the Air Force, which maintains C-130 propeller blades for the Navy.[ Read the Marine Corps' report on the KC-130T crash that killed 16 last summer (https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.militarytimes.com/assets/public-release-command-investigation-report-yanky-72-redacted.pdf) ]
In addition to the Air Force depot’s failure to fix the faulty blade, investigators also found the Navy did not ensure the work was done properly.
https://www.militarytimes.com/2018/12/05/investigation-blames-air-force-and-navy-for-systemic-failures-in-fatal-marine-corps-c-130-crash-that-killed-16/

[pattern_is_full]

Hmmm - our speculations seem to have been close to target in this case - took more than one prop blade to fatally injure the airframe.

- Primary cause - faulty prop maintenance
- #2 prop blade 4 separates due to corrosion/fatigue, slices through port side of fuselage, embeds inside starboard side of fuselage.
- jolt for that event causes entire prop #3 to separate at the gearbox and slice into starboard side of fuselage, and then into starboard HS fin, separating a large portion of that.
- separation of control runs, loss of stabilizer, weakened airframe results in LOCA and breakup

[isaneng]

Been there.

Can't get rid of the beat noise.
Re-synch, Re-index, whatever, no change.

Land on.
Ok, #4, No2 blade is loose .

Well that's ok, 'cos so is No 4 blade....

Hmm, do they balance each other out?

[isaneng]

Given the current C-130 news in Japan, fingers crossed friends, best health

[Paul C]

I saw these photos on fb a while ago, just shows how much damage a prop can do.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/398x556/35414393_638664129806087_5253465582556151808_n_f4797e5e964e7 51cfa76f71d6ac9d6f2c2ee1844.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/580x395/35519495_638664103139423_5887885814712500224_n_55bfc8068d4b7 78b2bd350c6eeeaec4603f8edae.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x390/35429404_638664179806082_2742963224159715328_n_2f4be7dc0548a 146edb43b8c4350619753977e19.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/393x534/35552195_638664173139416_4930040264401092608_n_812749f62be2e f9196eb6d510a99f2bd75423ef9.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/587x395/35520575_638664113139422_1276407960465047552_n_581f8b136eb36 aecc81f5b96ef7c55891f970d61.jpg

[TBM-Legend]

blob:https%3A//www.defensenews.com/ca91e45f-68f6-4937-bc8d-9992812486cb

[RAFEngO74to09]

Video explanation showing sequence of events - cause was maintenance error during previous depot inspection 6 years prior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs6gFYDKgLQ

[ancientaviator62]

This video and the other crash video gave me real pause for thought Thank God (and our servicing personnel) that we never had such an incident during my 30 years on the 'K'.

[sycamore]

I remember seeing a blade that had a probe tip hit..Think it was either `Rats` or Scroggs,during a training sortie...?

[ancientaviator62]

sycamore,
I think the Thorney Island crash landing may have had a partial prop penetration. As for your recollection of the probe tip hitting a prop I recall that too but cannot remember who the captain was. No doubt someone will know.