UA5869 Engine fire at landing

[edmundronald]

UA5869 landing at Denver
Plenty of pix, pretty convincing there was an issue
http://www.airlive.net/breaking-united-plane-just-landed-with-engine-on-fire-at-denver-airport/

[Machinbird]

Impressive:
Some sort of fuel leak I would assume.
http://www.airlive.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/235.png

[rottenray]

This time of year, with moderately high temps and dry grass and normal summer wind, glad it wasn't more of a leak. A little farther off to the side with the right wind, and, hey, we're shut down until it can be put out.

Glad everyone made it off well enough to point and scream -- always a good sign, sort of like a baby crying after being born.

Looking forward to more details.

[Airbubba]

Listening to the LiveATC.net tapes, Skywest 5869, N796SK, a Canadair CRJ-702ER from Aspen landed on 34R, cleared at high speed F9, taxied back on F, cleared to enter the ramp at CS.

They stopped on F before going very far back south, said they had an electrical problem and the ground controller reported seeing flames. Pax evacuated before the first trucks arrived, fire quickly extinguished. Sounds like 65 souls onboard on one radio call by the ARFF crew. Another count was announced as 57 adults, two juveniles. No injuries reported. :ok:

On tower, usual emergency shuffle, one plane offered late runway change, wisely took the missed instead.

Expected media reports that the 'plane was on the tarmac' or was 'taxiing on the runway'.

[Airbubba]

For any CRJ drivers out there - would it be normal to shut down an engine immediately after clearing the runway to save fuel? Would it make sense on a hot day in Denver? Or, would there be a cool down period required with these motors?

I've seen many engine shutdown policies come and go over the years to save fuel and in some cases brake wear.

In my experience, both personal and anecdotal, two times that engines are more likely to catch fire is when they start and when they are shut down.

[jrmyl]

Back when I was flying the CRJ-200 it was normal to shut down one engine after waiting two minutes after landing. I never flew into DEN so don't know what the procedures are at the high altitude airports. If it is any different.

[Power]

very normal to shut down an engine (number 1) for a single engine taxi in/out in the CRJ. Usually will have the APU up so the packs can cope in the hot weather.

[cappt]

Two minute cool down regardless where you are.
The reverser's are hydraulic on the 7/9 vs bleedair on the 200.

[Tankengine]

Just saw TV footage, not sure why the fireman sprayed water all over the open front door when the fire was confined to the engine at the rear!? Now the interior needs a dry out at well as the engine change/damage work.

[megan]

Some sort of fuel leak I would assumeMy immediate thought was oil from the front bearing. Be interesting to see the report. Anyone with the rego?

[Volume]

would oil continue to burn on the ground? In a hot engine most probably, but as a puddle on the tarmac?
I would also assume fuel, like Machinbird.

[david1300]

I chuckled at our local news (Ch9 - Australia). Reports of panicked passengers when the pictures showed passengers standing around filming the event on their phones. Nothing like any real panic I've seen.

[cattlerepairman]

Just saw TV footage, not sure why the fireman sprayed water all over the open front door when the fire was confined to the engine at the rear!? Now the interior needs a dry out at well as the engine change/damage work.

Standard procedure. Process is to cover a/c and surrounding ground in foam for longer-lasting cooling and suffocation effect. It is difficult, doing a "windshield size-up", to accurately determine fire spread in an aircraft.

Fuel can run along the fuselage and ignite at inappropriate times in inappropriate places. One would generally prefer dampness over fire damage.

[Turbine D]

Maybe the fuel-oil heat exchanger developed a leak after landing...

[atakacs]

First hand account (https://qz.com/1020169/united-express-denver-airplane-emergency-what-happens-when-your-planes-engine-catches-fire/).

Nothing unexpected I'd say

[Airbubba]

A great picture of the evac and initial spray of the engine from the fire truck. The usual crowd doing video clips for online posting.

As the article observes:

– Social media leads people to do stupid things. A number of passengers lingered by the plane to take selfies with the burning engine in the background. They had no information that should have given them confidence that the plane wasn’t going to explode and shower them with fiery metal if they stuck around. Protip: forego selfies.

[OldLurker]

Um, how often do planes "explode and shower everyone with fiery metal"?

[TRW Plus]

You'd be surprised how often. :hmm:

[fleigle]

I think those CRJ's are 50-seater, plus a crew of 3, 2 up front and one in the cabin.
We flew into Denver on one last wednesday, and out on another 4 hours later.

[FIRESYSOK]

The copilot should have already exited, mustering passengers in an area preferably upwind and away from the airplane, with an extinguisher and crash axe in hand. Where is the leadership here. Sauntering away from the plane with only one exit open and the crew carrying personal belongings. SMH.

The feds and my chiefs would have my head over this.

[West Coast]

I think those CRJ's are 50-seater, plus a crew of 3, 2 up front and one in the cabin.
We flew into Denver on one last wednesday, and out on another 4 hours later.

The CRJ comes in a number of variants. SkyWest, the airline involved has a number of seating capacities depending upon scope limits and partner airlines needs. At the lower end are CRJ-200s with 50 seats, ranging up to 76 seats on CRJ-900 frames.

[Airbubba]

The FAA Incident Notification says there was a tire fire. :confused: Also, I get N796SK as the registration for SKW 5869 ASE-DEN on July 2, 2017.

02-JUL-17
Time: 20:19:00Z
Regis#: N792SK
Aircraft Make: BOMBARIER
Aircraft Model: CL600
Event Type: INCIDENT
Highest Injury: NONE
Aircraft Missing: No
Damage: UNKNOWN
LOCATION
City: DENVER
State: COLORADO
Country: UNITED STATES

DESCRIPTION

Description:
N792SK SKYWEST AIRLINES FLIGHT SKW5869 BOMBARDIER CL600 AIRCRAFT, ON LANDING, REPORTED A TIRE FIRE SPREAD TO THE ENGINE, ALL PERSONS ON BOARD DEPLANED WITHOUT INJURIES, FIRE EXTINQUISHED, DAMAGE UNKNOWN, DENVER, CO

http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/apex/f?p=100:96:448923827148::::P96_ENTRY_DATE,P96_MAKE_NAME,P96_ FATAL_FLG:03-JUL-17,BOMBARIER

[DaveReidUK]

The CRJ comes in a number of variants. SkyWest, the airline involved has a number of seating capacities depending upon scope limits and partner airlines needs. At the lower end are CRJ-200s with 50 seats, ranging up to 76 seats on CRJ-900 frames.

And their CRJ7 fleet, the type involved in the incident, have 66 or 70 seats depending on configuration.

[zondaracer]

For any CRJ drivers out there - would it be normal to shut down an engine immediately after clearing the runway to save fuel? Would it make sense on a hot day in Denver? Or, would there be a cool down period required with these motors?

I've seen many engine shutdown policies come and go over the years to save fuel and in some cases brake wear.

In my experience, both personal and anecdotal, two times that engines are more likely to catch fire is when they start and when they are shut down.
We shut the lft engine down (#1) after 2 minutes has elapsed since landing unless operationally required (for example parking in the horseshoe at B concourse in DEN or potentially slippery taxiways). The CRJ700 can usually pump out enough air on one engine to not require the APU except on the hottest of days. The 200... well get that APU on and transfer the bleeds before engine shut down.

[cappt]

The 200... well get that APU on and transfer the bleeds before engine shut down.

Preferably before 10K during the summer, there is zero bleed pressure during descent coming off he engines on the 200, makes a big difference in keeping the cabin reasonable.

[Airbubba]

Thanks for all of the insight to the engine shutdowns for taxi on the CRJ.

I'm puzzled by the mention of a tire fire in the FAA incident report posted above. The wheels look fine in the photos I've seen. Also, the LiveATC.net feeds don't seem to have any mention of a tire on fire in the ATC or fire crew clips. The ATC feeds are scanning several channels and miss some transmissions but I would think that a tire fire would be a discussion item for the crash crew as they knocked down the engine fire and made sure no one was left onboard. The ARFF folks are recorded on a separate LiveATC.net feed at DEN.

[West Coast]

An aircraft following the incident aircraft initially reported a tire fire then corrected the statement to an APU fire, neither of which was correct.

[Airbubba]

Thanks, glad I asked. :ok: I was scrubbing the ground control tape, the brake fire reporting aircraft was back on tower. I think the controller was working both freqs at the time.

AX4751 reported a brake fire on the right, number 2 side of the CRJ on F then said it's not a brake fire at all, looks like fire dumping out of the APU or engine compartment.

You can hear the initial fire report at about 18:25 into this clip:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kden/KDEN-Twr-Jul-02-2017-2000Z.mp3

[Machinbird]

Glad to see someone questioning the tire fire information.
That is clearly fuel burning on the ground behind the engine.
The failure sequence probably went something like this:

What is more likely is that some fuel system component outside of the core engine failed inflight and began leaking. While inflight, the airflow probably kept it separated from a combustion source.

After landing, the airflow around the core engine changed and a puddle of fuel developed inside the duct or inside the cowling. It was lit off then and fuel continued to be added until the engine was shut down. (Was there a cough or bang out of the engine during the rollout? )

If the fire had started inflight, the crew likely would have received some warning, but that does not appear to have happened from the info I've seen.

[Volume]

Once you have shut down an engine, would you still receive a fire warning from it, or is it deactivated as well in that case?

[lomapaseo]

It's not deactivated

It is dependent on the placement of fire loops to detect the fire.

In some rare cases it's possible to locally burn through an engine case and directly into the fan discharge flow path without being detected (fuel manifold dislodged etc.).

As somebody pointed out earlier, in-flight engine fires are different from fires on the ground.

There are lots of investigative questions still to be answered in this event so await the results.