SYD base screwed

[bonzaboy]

So it has happened!!

[Threethirty]

What's happened?

[betpump5]

CX going through the motions with AAOA but will do whatever they want after 3 months- as usual

[BlunderBus]

How long have they been talking about increased slots on bases? They can't even replace the base resignations and retirement vacancies without using them as a bargaining tool. After a year or more of 'bases will be opening up' the Sydney base is downsizing despite extra daily services being implemented. The offer is relocate to hk or redundancy!! Like that's a choice? Oh I did omit transfers to Mel or bne If slots exist!!! Who are they kidding?? There haven't been any for a decade!!
Good luck dragging your families back to hk.. my sympathies.. really.

[LongTimeInCX]

I know it's a rumour network, but the facts are I believe less contentious than portrayed.
Instead of crapping on without knowing the details, why not ask a friend who is based there?
I'm happy to be corrected, but my understanding from the friend of one of the adfected crew is as follows:
The AAOA were in the loop.
They were advised before the letters to crew were sent.
They had their AAOA letter ready to go once the company sent theirs, it's on the AAOA website, I was shown it.
The procedure CX are adopting complies with the required consultative process.
Clearly the outcome is debatable and unknown.
Individual SYD crew have more than one option - yes it includes leaving or going to HK.
It appears there may be 8-12 individuals who's circumstances may change for the better.
There may sadly be 2-6 individuals who may have to take an alternative base and commute.
There are finite base slots in MEL and BNE that have been made available.
The taking up of these slots appears to be in accordance with what is written in either the Basings agreement and/or the COS of the crew affected.

Any disruption to families and jobs is far from ideal. However in this case, the end result is likely to be more crew are where they want to be based, and less crew will have to do a domestic commute.
That's not to diminish the serious upheaval it may have for some of the junior based crew who live in Syd, but who may, depending on the consultation process, have to choose one of the less favourable options like leave, go to HK, or commute from MEL/BNE.

On balance though, and rarely for CX, in this case there are likely to be significantly more winners than losers.

[flyboy007]

"On balance though, and rarely for CX, in this case there are likely to be significantly more winners than losers."

That is certainly not the case.

[ACMS]

The info I've seen indicates LongTimeInCx is correct.

[Liam Gallagher]

What Longtimeincx says may be true when viewed by those already Oz based. However, for the huge number of fine Australian fellows (and their families) based in HK, this will be devastating news. What does this mean for the prospect of future Australian bases? Not good I expect.

Still, I am sure an outfit called Restructuring Associates Inc will help us out. We all want our employment to be "restructured"; don't we?

Google "employment restructuring" to see what I mean.

[betpump5]

And what happens if MEL becomes 777 only as well? Doesn't MEL have capacity restraints too? Since this is a rumor network. Does the current "restructuring" add weight to the rumour that CX wants to get rid of all Aus bases? Regardless how much us Pilots think Bases saves the company in terms of Housing. Perhaps the rough calculation Pilot x housing x month x slots = $$$million in savings isn't as simple as we all thought.

[Trafalgar]

I have always suspected that the company's goal was to get rid of housing. Once accomplished, there is very little reason to have bases. Perhaps those of you on HKPA might want to consider that. If they take down ARAPA, there is probably even less chance of any of you getting bases in the future.

[bm330]

Then all those HKPAers will be vastly closer to Command. The constant trickle to the door that CX has currently has will be a Tsunami. Hundreds would refuse to return.

[Trafalgar]

Probably also correct

[Natca]

Well the quick and easy thing to do here would be to hang the pacifist HKAOA president.

[Starbear]

Sydney base screwed?

I am sorry to have to predict that not only Sydney and every other base but this company is screwed. If anyone out there truly believes that the bunch of f*ckwits who drove this company to its knees has any capability or resurrecting it, no matter what the guy skull(king) around in the former CoD office or inhabiting the 3rd floor and above get up to, it's beyond their combined capabilities.

[Apollo19]

Just for clarification, was the Sydney based just closed? I have not seen anything to confirm that, though I am not based there so why would I.

[crwkunt roll]

Just for clarification, was the Sydney based just closed?
No he meant "Sydney Bases Crewed". (To the bare minimum)

[ron burgandy]

The only base that's been screwed here is Hong Kong.

This is clearly a type change in home base that's covered in the basing agreement.

It's not a reduction in manning levels which is what's being erroneously and mischievously used to put junior people into Melbourne and Brisbane.

The current Sydney based guys should be doing a type change, in reverse seniority if required, and the clear undermanning of mel and bne due to years of attrition should be filled by those senior enough to bid for it. Which will mostly be Hong Kong based crew. Mutually agreed base swaps could also then follow if so desired.

All that's happened here is we've agreed to allow the company to offer less base slots overall than they otherwise would have had to provide.

Well done- another own goal.

[flyboy007]

Calm calm; the AAOA hasn't agreed to anything yet. This is merely the company's first salvo.

[Farman Biplane]

So, a DEFO hired into the Sydney base (having never been based in HKG) gets to take a BNE/MEL base before a more senior FO currently in HKG?
Juniority rules again at CX!

[BlunderBus]

Three words that will defeat further 'new basee' transfers from Hong Kong... long service leave!!

[AQIS Boigu]

And what is going to happen when the A50-1000 returns to SYD. Will these officers get back to their SYD base?

[TurningFinalRWY36]

I'm not convinced the A50 will ever see SYD.

You are right, the 50-1000 won't see much of SYD. It will be used what it was designed for, ULH. On NA routes the 350 is a better cargo lifter especially to eastern NA. 777 will be used for capacity increase around Asia/pacific

[ron burgandy]

Yeah, because the 777ER was designed for regional Asian flying.......🙄

[geh065]

Older planes get relegated to doing other jobs that they weren't necessarily designed for. You know that.

[ron burgandy]

I think you'll find that commercially, the high yielding Australian traffic, and especially Sydney, will require the A50, precisely because it's not an old plane. They'll have to put the latest and greatest on this route, if they want to be 'customer centric'.

[Natca]

I think you'll find that commercially, the high yielding Australian traffic, and especially Sydney, will require the A50, precisely because it's not an old plane. They'll have to put the latest and greatest on this route, if they want to be 'customer centric'.

Think again, the Er with the new seating config will be a slot limited airport buster. Jam it full and go with no weight issues. The 350 is great but it is a runway limited airplane in some cases, it chews up the pavement.

[flyhardmo]

I think you missed the sarcasm Natca... the clue was in 'customer centric'.

[Natca]

I think you missed the sarcasm Natca... the clue was in 'customer centric'.

Ah yes I lack that ability, sorry bout that.

[Avinthenews]

So looks like they've magically found exactly the number of base positions in Brisbane and Melbourne for the 10/11 guys n girls in Sydney that are required to move.

So were Brisbane and Melbourne under manned before or are they now over manned?

[ACMS]

What do you reckon mate.....

[LongTimeInCX]

So were Brisbane and Melbourne under manned before or are they now over manned?
Looking at the 330 and 350 roster, one can see over the last year or so a very significant percentage of flights, especially to Brisbane, are being crewed by HK based pilots. Couple that with the fact that a number of captains have retired off the base, and a number of FO's have gone back to HK for command, then I would opine that the base was very undermanned.
Many crew are suggesting these slots have just materialized out of thin air, and semantics aside, I would suggest they have increasingly been available, just simply not released by CX for every eligible crew to apply for.

Whilst I have no dog in this race, as I'm not interested in applying for an Australian base, it does seem fair that the Basings agreement, the very mechanism which allows crew to apply for a base, is the very same agreement that offers some protections to crew when there is a reduction in crewing.

As to whether this should be classed as a type change or reduction in crewing, some would say it's a subjective viewpoint depending on your own position. The company have made theirs, be it correct or not, some agree, and not surprisingly, some do not.
As evidenced by one AOA forum member using the phrase "based for life brigade" to describe based pilots, it is unfortunate that this again seems to have driven a wedge between hk crew and based crew, and has us dissecting the words and intent in the Basings agreement. We're all on the same team, we know where our vitriol should be directed.

[ACMS]

Well said :ok:

[BlunderBus]

Most senior FO's in HKG who would take Aussie bases make more in 6 months on command bypass pay than LSL. So that argument does not stick
Can you clarify? Does taking a base in Australia as an F/O then wipe out command bypass pay? Can't you have both?

[BlunderBus]

Basings are candy for crews in Hong Kong... almost all ports are drastically undermanned just check the crew lists. There's no way the company will hand out transfers while CC and TB are in force.... regardless of cost savings.

[Trafalgar]

Everybody. Sit on your hands, stop begging the company for basings. Don't do the company's work for them. They WILL get desperate enough to issue more basings. If not, then no probs, stay in HK, manage your roster, take the money and if you are not happy, quit and find a company that treats you properly. Don't sell our last bit of silverware for pennies.

[Shag Nasty]

Well said Trafalgar

[Captain Dart]

Why would they 'get desperate enough to issue more basings'? The new joiners Traf is voluntarily training for them are so cheap to keep in Hong Kong there is no incentive for new bases any more.