Uniform Stripes

[OldbutWise]

Can anyone explain to me the use of aviation uniform stripes and what they signify?

I know that an airline captain will have four stripes but so does the CFI at my local flying club though I doubt he would be allowed to jump into the left hand seat of a 747 and take command.

Grateful for any info.

[Localiser Green]

In that regard they don't really mean anything. I can put on a nice uniform with 4 gold bars on each shoulder when I go flying a Cessna 152. I am, after all, qualified and acting as the legal Commander (and therefore the Captain).

But it doesn't mean I can wander over to the other apron and take that Air 2000 757 down to Mahon with 235 people on board! Neither can the 4-gold bar Captain on the ERJ-145 parked next to it. But we are all Captains of the aircraft we fly.

In general, the UK-system is as follows:

1 bar = Second Officer
2 bars = First Officer
3 bars = Senior First Officer
4 bars = Captain

[BlueEagle]

Like a lot of things in aviation today, pilots uniforms and their markings are derived from what the mercantile marine wears, with the rank titles suitably modified. The captain remains as such but the First Mate becomes a Senior First Officer etc.

Up until a few years ago most of the navigation exams sat by pilots in the UK were actually set by retired Master Mariners rather than aviators!

[Skunkworks]

I cant imagine anything more embarrassing than putting on 4 stipes and then go fly a C152!?

[Flight Detent]

Just an addition to that already mentioned!

Flight Engineers and First Officers,
FE's only have 2 or 3 stripes, depending on their experience level, which means you won't see many 2 stripers' around these days!
Also, they have purple in between their stripes, signifying the fact that they are a Flight Engineer. (And not a First or Second Officer!)

The purple between the stripes originates back quite some distance.
I understand the Queen of England, following the sinking of the Titanic, awarded the Marine Engineers' aboard that ship the highest available award for bravery, for their efforts in keeping the ship afloat for as long as they did, and, for the majority, losing their lives in doing so!
That award, still being worn by marine engineers around the world in the form of the purple stripes in between their gold stripes, was passed on to the aviation world from the very beginning, and is still in normal use, in most 'knowledgeable' outfits.


Don't be confused by the FE wearing a wings brevet, in most companies it only signifies that he is a part of the technical flight crew! - although a large number of FE's do have a pilots licence to fly. (usually just a CPL or PPL for own use!
Our company allows the pilot licenced FE to fly the B747 for a t/off, circuit and landing in the simulator, just to keep up the "feel of the thing'.

Also, since we don't hire inexperienced FOs, we don't have any one or two striper FOs.

Just thought I'd mention it!
Cheers

[OPEN CLB]

Just as a follow-up, legally the stripes don't mean anything. It is actually just a tradition the airlines haven't dumped. Numbers / colors of stripes and their meaning are up to the individual airline.
Just some more examples:
Most German airlines (actually all I know of) don't make differences between the different "ranks" of copilots. You always have three stripes.
My company uses the two-stripe version for all copilots still in initial line training. After completion you get three stripes, despite being "only" second officer (the only difference to first is pay-wise).

So don't take it too seriously....:cool: :cool:

[BlueEagle]

Open Climb - I think that your company must let all F/Os wear three stripes in order to instill confidence into the pax!
In most airlines the one stripe SO has to work very hard to upgrade to a two stripe F/O who in turn has to work very hard to upgrade to a SFO and usually it involves SIM and checkrides to upgrade, not to mention hours and senior licences. By the time an SFO puts up his third stripe he usually has all the requirements for command and is a 'captain-in-waiting'.
Your company may not take the number of SO/FO/SFO stripes very seriously but the majority out there do, each step is a career move and a considerable accomplishment.

[OPEN CLB]

Upgrading from third to second to first to senior first officer (or whatever) is mainly dictated by seniority. The only step that costs a lot of sweat is the line training, which is concluded by two checkrides. This promotes you from third to second officer (also accompanied by the change from two to three stripes). The step from second to first officer simply is a matter of flying for three years. We don't have the SFO step, it is replaced with the Relief-PIC, which is only available on the longhaul fleet by seniority.
Why? all applicants go through a thorough screening, asessing their ability for command. Those who fail won't be accepted, resulting in a virtually zero drop-out rate during upgrading.
Senior licences? Not known according JAR-OPS, the only step is the "upgrade" from CPL/IFR to ATPL, a step that happens automatically at 1500h TTL as all required tests have been taken before the first ever commercial flight.
My company might not take it seriously with stripes, but others might still be giving more attention than it actually deserves, as it is mainly a PR issue (and in the time of closed cockpit doors not visible anyway).
Oh, by the way, my airline quit the one-striper a long time ago, as a cost saving measure.;)
Same with cabin staff. Some airlines choose to equip them with "rank" marks, others don't.....

[capt waffoo]

And the guy in the flying club wearing any number of stripes is in the same league as a yachtie who affects naval uniform with spurious badges of rank.

ie a pretentious tosser and a laughing-stock to all who are entitled to wear them.

Do driving instructors dress as chauffeurs in black suits with peaked caps just because they are "entitled to drive a car"? I'd avoid that driving school if they did.

[BlueEagle]

Well, there you have it, OldButWise, some airlines cover all their requirements at an earlier stage than others and don't put any great emphasis on the various stripes and titles available for a F/O whilst others still very much retain the rank structure and use it as a means of measuring progress and ability. That is the airline way, as far as the guy at the flying club goes, well just read what Capt. Wafoo has said, that just about covers it!:)

[Dan Kelly]

One company I worked for: F/O - 2 stripes, Capt - 3 stripes, Check/Training Capt & Chief - 4 stripes.

Current employer: F/O - 3 stripes, Capt, Check/Training Capt, Chief - 4 stripes.

Obviously it varies from company to company.

[Capt. Crosswind]

I'm curious as to why BA Aircrew wear silver braid ? It does not look impressive & looks nondescript to say the least,or second rate at worst.
(Which is of course not the case,I've always been impressed with the calibre of BA Aircrew, world leaders in my opinion, but they don't look it around the airport.)
Perhaps it is a misguided bean counters attempt to economise -
save 20,000 p.a. on uniform costs ( then spend 100,000 p.a. designing a new swizel stick for the first class cocktails)

[Firestorm]

Capt C

I laughed my a%^& off because I asked a BA pilot that very same question not to so long ago. They get awfully upset because they INSIST that it's platinum not silver. Poor fellow was so busy getting his knickers in a twist about what colour was represented by the bands on his arm I never got to find out why it's silver (or whatever) rather than gold.

Good question, well asked. :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[fantom]

I have five stripes: four silvery ones on my uniform (and pyjamas) and a big yellow one down my back......
:p

[canberra]

on the subject of the stripes, and the legality of such. mention was made of them being copied from the merchant navy, and so is the jacket. the merchant navy are entitled to prisoner of war status are civilian aircrew? as i was writing this i thought what happened to the crew of the ba747 that was at kuwait when iraq invaded? something ive noticed is that unlike the merchant navy aircraft captains arent called sir by the crew or ground staff!

[Ready]

I agree, three for F/Os, four for Captains.
None of that crap, 2 for an experienced FO, 3 for a more experience one, 5 for senior Capt. and so on.
Actually they could get me to wear any number of stripes they wanted to, as long as we all dropped that stupid uniform hat (what a pain).
The hat is off topic I know,
Cheers!!!

[Ready]

I meant to write:
2 for an inexperienced FO, 3 for a more experienced one.
Thanks.

[IRRenewal]

ie a pretentious tosser and a laughing-stock to all who are entitled to wear them.

Although I agree with your tosser comment regarding the C150 driver I would like to point out that civil aviation uniforms have no official status nor protection and therefore everybody is entitled to wear them.

However I do feel sorry for instructors who are dictated by their schools to dress up like Concorde captains to fly a two seater from a grass airstrip.

Cheers

[Pilot Pete]

As far as stripes on a 152 driver being the most rediculous thing down at the flying club, I take issue.

Whilst doing my PPL at Redhill in 1996 (in jeans and T-shirt!) a 17 year old turned up for a trial lesson and had prepared himself extremely well for his hour of fun; He was wearing a pair of RAF fast jet 'Anti-G' trousers (not sure of the proper name) and the instructor had raised eyebrows as we all watched them 'mount up' and made various comments like "where do I plug these in Captain?"!

Having worn black uniform with gold stripes and black with silver I must admit I prefer the latter and embroidered wings as opposed to a 'thick gold pair' on a pin which are so heavy they never lie flat, always drooping forward under the weight (maybe they're 24carat and I should sell them!)

PP

[Flight Detent]

Hey FANTOM,

Did you get that one for abandoning the B727s for the A320 fleet all those years ago?
Cheers

[Capt. Crosswind]

Thanks for the info Firestorm - so it's really platinum ?

Try giving an Olympic athlete a platinum medal !!

BA should know that Gold= First Silver=Second Bronze=Third
Good Guys wear White Hats Bad Guys wear Black Hats
Arch Villians wear Black Hats & have a pencil thin moustache.

Impressions are made in the first ten seconds.

[aviatorpk]

I wear four stripes and a star:D

[Capt. Crosswind]

aviatopk, that reminds me of a system proposed many years ago in an attempt to make the sytem mean something.
The addition of a star was to be reserved for Capts & F/O's flying on International Ops, specifically trans oceanic. In those days
many pilots on these ops were Nav qualified,which probably is the origin of the star.

[OldbutWise]

Thanks to everyone who replied regarding the above topic. I think BlueEagle's reply just about sums it up.

As for Capt Waffoo, I think his response is just a little OTT. The CFI at my local flying club is a very serious and experienced CFI. I think for all the effort he puts into flying training etc., he deserves his four stripes.

As for me, I only wear my uniform with five stripes when I'm at home with the 'other half' - she just happens to like men in uniform!!!! - But thats another topic altogether.

Thanks again.:)

[Tinker]

In addition to what has already been mentioned my old trainning school required PPL-CPL students to wear one stripe and the IR students to wear two. I refused to wear them after all what had I done to earn any form of rank except parted with loads of cash.

I also noticed the other day that at least one airlines operations personel wear one stripe.

Unfortunately their over use has somewhat devalued them. Rest assured that if the captain forgot them one day(highly unlikely), the aircraft will still fly just as well, any way s/he will still have the scrambled egg on his/her hat :D

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

Depends where you are.

A Airline uses...

4 bars = Captin
3 Bars = Senior First officer
2 Bars = First officer

A flying school may use...

4 Bars = Senior pilot (of some type like examiner or head pilot)
3 Bars = Commercial (in a flying school that does com. training)
2 Bars = Qualifed Flying Instructor
1 Bar = Commercial student pilot.

Also "un-qualifed" aviation workers use them to (this gets confusing)..

Airlines use bars to signify

*Operations Officers = thin(1inch) gold stripe
*Operations Assistant= thin gold stripe
*Operations Junior Assistant= thin(0.5inch) gold stripe
*Crewing officers =thin gold stripe
*Crewing Assistant=thin gold stripe

and also engineers wear em to!!

Not sure on the roles each one plays
But they are generally silver and vary between 2inch-1inch.

And the army use em to... Omeegawd,, I am not getting into that one!

[Ludwig]

Oh dear oh dear. This gold and scrambled egg issue is clearly very important to some. Has anyone noticed that Tin pot dictators and despots usually award themselves big uniforms with lots of gold braid and peaked caps:D

[KingoftheRoad]

Don't ya just luv the guys who wear their 4 bars on raincoat eppies. Plonkers. ;)

Then there are the ex 4bars,now sporting 3, always wearing a woolley, even when it's 32C. Know what I mean ? :D

[El Desperado]

We've recently had a memo telling us that the company would prefer us not to wear the 'company-issued' raincoats (!), but if we really must honestly-to-god-no-it's-pretty-horrible-out-there have to wear them, then the stripes go on.

I didn't make the rules :)

[silverknapper]

Reminds me of the FI who had "captain *** *****" on his cheque book and credit cards.
Must say people do stare a bit when they see gold bars in the pub!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Amelia_Flashtart]

This topic set me off on a mission of sorts. Have just spent the last 15 minutes going through the bedroom drawers and have found 4 sets of eppies belong to the significant other half which he has gathered over the last 15 years with different airlines. In all cases he has been a captain on the same aircraft type.

One set is silver/platinum/pewter/tin/palladium - who knows but silver in colour and the other three are gold. They have the following stripes:
three wide gold
two wide gold with a thin gold between
three wide gold with a thin gold at the top
four wide silver (on a rather tacky sort of teal blue fabric - must have been the now defunt budget carrier in the US he worked for by the look of them)

And he currently has four wide gold with his current employer.

The airlines concerned have been in the US, Asia and Australia so not sure if there is any significance in that

Must admit this topic did make me stop and think!!! Must be bored...........

[lunkenheimer]

I wonder if the change in fashion of the stripe colours parallels the 'Gold Mastercard->Platinum Mastercard->Titanium Mastercard' evolution?;:D