Cargo fire airbus

[michelda]

Hi guys,

In my last sim session....
On downwind we had cargo fire, ecam applied and fire indications were still there (this is reported also in the manual that it can happen).
Landed, still fire so I proceed for an emer evac ck list. After engine and apu shut down, cargo fire disappeared.
My questions:
1. Have you decided for an emergency evacuation also without fire indication?
2. Is cargo fire indications still available when on ground with battery only?

Thanks for your replies

[Amadis of Gaul]

I agree with Small Cog (in case anyone cares).

[michelda]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your replies.... few considerations

1. Why did you lose your time to reply with so clever answers?
2. I know quite well what it's written in the fcom....but I don't understand the reason why it's like that and more important I'd like to know what the pilot community will do in the case...
3. Maybe you are not interested on what's going on in this situation but I guess your passengers will be happy to know that in front there is somebody that knows and apply the most appropriate procedure.

[Amadis of Gaul]

So, did you or did you not discuss this with your instructor?

Actually, sounds like you did NOT read the FCOM, because if you did, you'd know that:

1. Cargo smoke indication is on DC Bus 2;
2. Said DC Bus 2 is not powered on Battery Power only with speed below 50kts;
3. Cargo fire extinguishing is on DC Bat Bus;
4. Said DC Bat Bus IS powered in that scenario.

Ergo, on Bat only you don't have cargo fire indication, but you do have extinguishing capability.

You're welcome. Next time actually read the book, don't just say you read it.

[michelda]

Dear Amadis,

Thanks for your reply.
I have to point out something.....

No, I didn't speak with my instructor but trust me that there are good reasons for that.

1. You are right but few revisions ago aib decided to delete this informations from the fcom so basically I don't know any electrical connections except for the chapter 24. I found it's not powered reading another part of the manual.
2. You are right and this looks like very strange in my mind
3. You are right
4. You are right again
And until here I don't need your help to explain me how is working an airbus

In the scenario which is your conclusion.... you can know by memory the fcom but at the end you have to take decisions.... so with battery only and without fire indications, you will evacuate or not?

I don't know you but you are welcome if you will have any doubts about airbus. Feel free to contact me....I quite sure I can reply you

[Amadis of Gaul]

In the scenario which is your conclusion.... you can know by memory the fcom but at the end you have to take decisions.... so with battery only and without fire indications, you will evacuate or not?


Time permitting, I'll start by asking the fire chief if he and/or his infra-red cameras can see any fire. If the answer is no, I'll hold off on the evac. If the pompieri are slow about it, I'm not going to wait, I'll give the command.

[michelda]

Perfect! Now we start to think about it......

This is a typical scenario that if you set during a simulation session you can have 10 different replies.

Your solution makes sense but my considerations.....
If you have fire and as soon as you turn off the last engine it disappears, it can be extinguished or more easily only the indication disappeared.
Other solution..... maintain apu on in order to have am network powered....
Most of the time when you discharge the bottles you still have fire indications also if fire is extinguished.... so evaluate also this....
As you can see there are multiple scenarios and multiple answers.
A forum should be used also to learn (and eventually teach) the other point of view not only to fight and show others how much you know about an argument.

Thanks again for your reply and your used time

[michelda]

This is the ideal idea for training in aviation.

Unfortunately in some part of the world the aviation is not like that.

[Dupre]

Remember that cargo smoke is detecting smoke, not fire. There is no cargo fire detection system. So at no time can you say whether or not you have cargo fire.

Therefore regardless of whether or not the cargo smoke warning stays on, you actually don't know whether or not you have a fire.

For me, I would keep normal electrical power with the apu, and close communication with the cabin crew. Any sign of actual smoke in the cabin then evacuate immediately. If not, then continue to gate or disembark by stairs, leaving the cargo doors closed until everyone is off.

Finally, i don't expect that the fire chief on the ground will be able to see much (unless they have thermal imaging camera... is that actually common equipment for airport fire crews?). The cargo ventilation system will be closed by your ecam actions, and the doors are all sealed. Even with a fire smoldering away in the cargo compartment, I don't expect there would be much smoke escaping for the fire chief to see.

[Dupre]

Amadis, are you saying that the electrical supply tables are still in your fcom somewhere?

They were removed from mine a good 2 or 3 years ago, and I greatly miss them.

If they have just moved to some obscure location, do tell!

[Amadis of Gaul]

They are indeed. It's just that they're in there piecemeal. In most system chapters there is a table on how components are powered.

You may be referring to big schematics like you see in automotive repair manuals. Those are in the AMM/TSM which we have access to through company intranet but they're not on our tablets. Somewhat regrettably, I might add.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Finally, i don't expect that the fire chief on the ground will be able to see much (unless they have thermal imaging camera... is that actually common equipment for airport fire crews?).

They're common in the US, I don't know about elsewhere...

[FlightDetent]

It is necessary knowldege to understand fire vs. smoke indication vs. self-induced warning with regards to the cargo systems. It is good knowledge to be aware that warning lights may extinguish because of the power-down, and not make hasty conclusions.

Any fire-on-ground scenario is testing the pilots well beyond the scope of technical aircraft & systems handling, it is typically an excercise on information management.

The trick, beyond the books (*) on the A320 for this one, is to start the APU. The options once vacated off the runway are greatly expanded then. Probably not type specific at all. The rest had already been said.

* = why is it NOT mentioned is a question of its own!

my 3c.

[Dupre]

They are indeed. It's just that they're in there piecemeal. In most system chapters there is a table on how components are powered.

You may be referring to big schematics like you see in automotive repair manuals. Those are in the AMM/TSM which we have access to through company intranet but they're not on our tablets. Somewhat regrettably, I might add.

Sorry for the thread creep!

Can you provide a current fcom reference amadis? The tables that you refer to are (I think) the ones that I mean, but were chopped from the fcom a few years ago by Airbus (or so I was told...)

It would be fantastic to find them!

[Uplinker]

@Amadis of Gaul:

So, did you or did you not discuss this with your instructor?

Actually, sounds like you did NOT read the FCOM, because if you did, you'd know that:........

............You're welcome. Next time actually read the book, don't just say you read it.

Er, mate, there might be many valid reasons why a poster cannot ask or does not want to ask their instructor. One might be that the instructor is an a***hole who shouts at their students.

Additionally, English is clearly not the OP's first language, so the FCOM etc might not be as clear to them as it apparently is to you.

Chill out mate.

[Connie Wings]

Mates
Even though its been a long time since this has been posted, I thank you for this learning time about Airbus.
If time permits ... does anybody know where to find proper regulation requirement showing procedures for cargo smoke on ground with cargo door open? Some Ops Manuals states single rule like do not activate the “cargo fire extinguisher” from flight deck, simply calls for ground personal to take action.
What I’d like to know is about regulation.

Many thanks.