F-5 vs Mig-21

[ORAC]

Alert 5 » Soviets flew captured F-5 against the MiG-21; F-5 was the winner - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2017/06/12/soviets-flew-captured-f-5-against-the-mig-21-f-5-was-the-winner/)

[TBM-Legend]

F-5E vs Mirage 111O

At Butterworth, Malaysia in late '70's USAF pilot flying RMAF F-5E did ACM with RAAF Mirage 111. Outmanoeuvred the Mirage and ran it out of gas. Mirage Bingo'd and RTB to full stop while F-5 then proceeded to do multiple circuits!

[A_Van]

ORAC, this is described in detail in the memoirs (available on the Net for some 15-20 years, but, of course, in Russian) of one of the test pilots who participated in these tests (he flew MiG and his friend flew F-5). Indeed, F-5 proved to have better manoeuvrability in close combat.

[melmothtw]

Indeed. The Russians were so impressed with the F-5 that they built their own version which came to be known as the MiG-28. True story.

[sandiego89]

Do we know how many F-5's made it from Vietnam to Russia? More than one?

[Davef68]

Do we know how many F-5's made it from Vietnam to Russia? More than one?

At least one turned up in both Poland and Czechoslovakia (At Krakow and Kbely museums now respectively)

Some more video

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e52_1320882209

[A_Van]

Melmothtv,

You are probably fond of science fiction and thrillers, aren't you?. There is no such an aircraft as MiG-28, and it never existed. This fictitious index first appeared in a novel ("The Sinkiang Executive" by EllestonTrevor) in late 70's and then migrated to Top Gun and likes.

The reality is the following. As I wrote above, the Soviet air force was indeed impressed by "F-5E vs Mig-21" test results. It is written in the memoires of Col. Kondaurov (an AF test pilot who flew both MiG-21 and F-5E in those tests in 1976) that the immediate reaction was instruction to MiG-21 pilots to avoid maneuvering at a speed less than 800 km/hr (below which F-5E had an advantage). At that time there was a war between Somali and Ethiopia and these aircraft were in the possession of sides.
http://rulibs.com/ru_zar/nonf_biography/kondaurov/0/j49.html
(sorry it's in Russian, just to show that a proof link exists).

However, its copying made no sense to SU because Mig-29 was already in the development since 1974 (and its maiden flight took place in 1977). Its in-house competitor, Su-27, also first flew in 1977 though the design worked started even earlier, in 1971 (note that F-5E was brought into Russia in 1976). Both MiG-29 and Su-27, even their early versions, were more advanced than F-5E and were purposed to oppose F-16 and F-15 that already appeared in US in mid 70's.

P.S. I heard that Chinese copied F-5 (as they used to copy everything).

[bobward]

A Van,
I think the poster re the 'Mig 28' was having a slight jest with us all.....

[A_Van]

A Van,
I think the poster re the 'Mig 28' was having a slight jest with us all.....



OK, then I disavow my first para with apologies. However, there are so many "smiles" in the menu to add "colours" for stupid ones like me ;)

[chevvron]

A Van,
I think the poster re the 'Mig 28' was having a slight jest with us all.....
I definitely saw one in the film 'Top Gun' starring that tasty bird telling jet jockeys how to fly.
Can't remember the name of the male lead though; my brain appears to be in'Cruise' mode.

[rock34]

I definitely saw one in the film 'Top Gun' starring that tasty bird telling jet jockeys how to fly.
Can't remember the name of the male lead though; my brain appears to be in'Cruise' mode.

Pete Mitchell.......... :ok:

[MarisPiper]

Indeed. The Russians were so impressed with the F-5 that they built their own version which came to be known as the MiG-28. True story.

I believe the MiG 28 wasn't up to the task, had issues with the 4g negative dive if I remember correctly.

[West Coast]

For those with the money and desire....


1967 Northrop F-5A in Colorado for Sale-Contact for price (http://www.globalplanesearch.com/listing/aircraft-for-sale/Northrop-F-5A/233890)

[TheWestCoast]

WC, that's a pretty jet.

[melmothtw]

Melmothtv,

You are probably fond of science fiction and thrillers, aren't you?. There is no such an aircraft as MiG-28, and it never existed. This fictitious index first appeared in a novel ("The Sinkiang Executive" by EllestonTrevor) in late 70's and then migrated to Top Gun and likes.

The reality is the following. As I wrote above, the Soviet air force was indeed impressed by "F-5E vs Mig-21" test results. It is written in the memoires of Col. Kondaurov (an AF test pilot who flew both MiG-21 and F-5E in those tests in 1976) that the immediate reaction was instruction to MiG-21 pilots to avoid maneuvering at a speed less than 800 km/hr (below which F-5E had an advantage). At that time there was a war between Somali and Ethiopia and these aircraft were in the possession of sides.
http://rulibs.com/ru_zar/nonf_biogra...rov/0/j49.html
(sorry it's in Russian, just to show that a proof link exists).

However, its copying made no sense to SU because Mig-29 was already in the development since 1974 (and its maiden flight took place in 1977). Its in-house competitor, Su-27, also first flew in 1977 though the design worked started even earlier, in 1971 (note that F-5E was brought into Russia in 1976). Both MiG-29 and Su-27, even their early versions, were more advanced than F-5E and were purposed to oppose F-16 and F-15 that already appeared in US in mid 70's.

P.S. I heard that Chinese copied F-5 (as they used to copy everything).

Classic ;-).

OK, then I disavow my first para with apologies. However, there are so many "smiles" in the menu to add "colours" for stupid ones like me


No problem A Van, if you were being 'funny' in Russian I probably wouldn't get it either. Best.

[The Claw]

The one at Kbely.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa434/paulsphoto1/IMG_8.jpg

[West Coast]

Anyone know the history of the F-4:parked next to the F-5?

[Davef68]

Anyone know the history of the F-4:parked next to the F-5?

yes, it's XT899, an ex-19 Squadron RAF FGR2 donated to the Czechoslovakians (as they were then) in recogntion of the Czechs and Solvaks that served in the Allied forces in WW2

One of a pair from Wildenrath painted blue in 1991, the other was a 92 Squadron aircraft

[FakePilot]

Didn't the F5 influence the development of the F18? As in A+B model.

[Davef68]

Didn't the F5 influence the development of the F18? As in A+B model.

The F18 was developed from Northrop's YF-17, whose wing had a familial resemblence to the one on the F5, but is bigger and has an angled trailing edge

There is a line of (paper) development from F-5E to N500 to N530 to YF17.

Wikipedia has a basic timeline:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YF-17

[West Coast]

Thanks Dave.

[FakePilot]

Thanks again Dave.