Oban, Coll, Colonsay and the Out of Hours Permt

[helicopter-redeye]

Just had a call from Oban Airport. No further OOH Permits will be issued to any aircraft owned by a Limited Company because '...they might be used for commercial purposes...'.

This essentially closes Coll and Colonsay to any aircraft owned by a limited co except for the few minutes a day the locations are manned.

This would seem to be closing places down and reducing revenue (no more landing fees and permit fees) but I'm sure A&BC have their motives.

Anybody got any more gen on this?

H-R:ugh:

[Forfoxake]

Just had a call from Oban Airport. No further OOH Permits will be issued to any aircraft owned by a Limited Company because '...they might be used for commercial purposes...'.

This essentially closes Coll and Colonsay to any aircraft owned by a limited co except for the few minutes a day the locations are manned.

This would seem to be closing places down and reducing revenue (no more landing fees and permit fees) but I'm sure A&BC have their motives.

Anybody got any more gen on this?

H-R:ugh:

I am not surprised by this. I have rarely visited Oban, let alone Coll or Colonsay, due to the increased red tape and officiousness since they were all "improved".

However, have you tried contacting the Council officials and local Councillors about this?

[airpolice]

I've only been to Oban once, back in September 2012 and I can't imagine how it could have gone any better.

We arrived late in the day, dropped one pax, and picked up two others for a quick trip around the bay and land again, for another change over, and then departed as they were reversing the fire engine into the shed.

The staff were friendly and efficient, the whole experience was very welcoming and exactly not what I was expecting, based on the massive amount of posts on here whinging about Oban.

[Fostex]

Have to say I am the same, have never had any issue with Oban.

The guys are really friendly. Picked up some fuel once and that was pain free as well (well, except my wallet).

[Tagron]

I was at Colonsay two weeks ago. I e-mailed the Out of Hours exemption form the day before my visit then phoned Oban on the day for PPR . The OOH covered Coll also, though time proved too short to go there. No trouble at all.

[dont overfil]

Once again showing a total lack of understanding the way GA operates.

They are barring nearly all club rental and training aircraft and a proportion of group and private aircraft.

Do they realise you don't need to be a limited company to do "commercial" operations.

How about foreign reg aircraft. How will they know if they are company owned.

Hopefully someone will give them a shake to wake them up!

[TelsBoy]

Only been to Oban once and that was a few years ago. Didn't have any issues, staff were helpful and friendly. Didn't come across any "red tape" either.


From an airfield's perspective OOH permits can be a bit of a pain to deal with, lack of fire cover, insurance, security/access to/from the airfield when nobody is there, dealing with fees, parking, various other reasons.


If it's a small quiet private strip with no commercial activity then it's not usually a problem, commercial ops at any size of aerodrome however bring a number of additional complexities that your average PPL will be largely ignorant of. Security, Access Controls, Insurance, Fire Cover, ATC/FISO etc. Whether it's liked or not by PPLs these airfields do have CAT activity and the above services are mandated by the CAA/EASA and DFT.

[dont overfil]

Telsboy,
We don't allow ooh fixed wing commercial ops either, but you miss the point. Being owned by a ltd company has nothing to do with it being a commercial operation.

[Maoraigh1]

One of our Group of 6 got an Out of Hours permit for us last year. He said landings would be billed to him.
Could it be a rented aircraft had landed at either Coll or Collonsay, and the renter did not pay, and the owner was, reasonably, also refusing to pay???
I've always found everyone at Oban, and Argyle & Bute, great to deal with.

[helicopter-redeye]

That would amount to £8 lost against £annual OOH fee x n and all £OOH landing fees x n which will be bigger by a big factor.

I've not managed to find out any more over the past two days. It sounds like it will affect Coll and Colonsay the most - maybe restricting use will restrict cost of repairs to keep the Local flights going? Or restricted use reduce ABC insurance costs at a regional level?

I am going to write to the Chief Legal Officer as suggested by the lady at Oban Airport, if only to submit a FOI request on who has been refused and of course to ask for my money back on my current permit.

Oban's wording follows HIALs very closely. Hoping this is not a harbinger of more to come.....

[airpolice]

commercial ops at any size of aerodrome however bring a number of additional complexities that your average PPL will be largely ignorant of. Security, Access Controls, Insurance, Fire Cover, ATC/FISO etc. Whether it's liked or not by PPLs these airfields do have CAT activity and the above services are mandated by the CAA/EASA and DFT.

As anyone who has witnessed the many Commercial Operations at Perth will be aware, it ain't necessarily so........

[xrayalpha]

Or, telsboy, do you need all you listed for commercial ops?

Clue: check out Hebridean and Loch Lomond Seaplanes AOCs

[TelsBoy]

Well, when I've flown in to Coll with one of the operators you've listed (as PAX, I hasten to add) there's always been a wee fire engine sitting ready next to the strip. Also I spend my working life at various airfields all around the Highlands & Islands, all have fire cover, ATSU, security, etc. etc. etc. Obviously all that rather expensive stuff is just there for the sake of it.

[dont overfil]

Well, when I've flown in to Coll with one of the operators you've listed (as PAX, I hasten to add) there's always been a wee fire engine sitting ready next to the strip. Also I spend my working life at various airfields all around the Highlands & Islands, all have fire cover, ATSU, security, etc. etc. etc. Obviously all that rather expensive stuff is just there for the sake of it.
You are confusing scheduled and commercial.

[maxred]

Clue: check out Hebridean and Loch Lomond Seaplanes AOCs

Have a look at EGPF flight training outfits:cool:

Clue ATO/RTF

[TelsBoy]

DO and others,


My apologies, I must admit I was looking at things purely from the point of CAT. Thanks for correcting me :O


Has anyone done any more digging as to the rationale behind the decision?

[NorthSouth]

Has anyone done any more digging as to the rationale behind the decision?I've only just encountered this latest ridiculousness from A&B Council. I phoned them up to check what they wanted on the indemnity for a flight to Colonsay tomorrow in a rented aircraft. They told me that any aircraft "being used for hire or reward" could not be granted an indemnity because the insurance policy was not in the name of the pilot of the aircraft. She said this was specified on the indemnity form, but those words do not appear on the form. What the form says is "This indemnity is only for non-commercial aircraft no greater than 2730kg MTOW piloted by appropriately qualified pilots. Commercial and chartered aircraft operators are not permitted to use this ‘Out of Hours Indemnity Form’ or ‘Holiday Voucher’ scheme." A rented aircraft on a private flight is clearly a "non-commercial" operation as defined by EASA. No valuable consideration is being given.
Also, the preamble to the form says: "I being the owner or operator of aircraft registration details overleaf..." - clearly, a rental pilot is the operator of the aircraft.
Has anyone else dealt with this recently and how can we persuade them to change it?
NS

[C172Navigator]

I had the issue, managed to get a permit - that was last year. I did it in person whilst in Oban, at first the lady said no as aircraft is in trust (N reg) then she said it was commercial (so no again) and finally she said ok - she tried to suggest I could use it for commercial purposes even though the insurances states private use in bold letters. I renewed this month and on the phone was told not for a group aircraft but I emailed the forms and have a new permit. I cannot see what their problem is - the aircraft is either insured or it is not and the pilot is either licensed or not. There are no issues for anyone visiting Oban, only Coll and Colonsay. So I'm not sure how I managed to get the permits, I'm not asking questions! But it does seem a farce when you think that no-one asks for your insurance after landing in Oban. It is a pity as flying on the west coast is beautiful but the council seem to do everything they can to put you off going.