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View Full Version : Virgin loses $767K a day.....for how much longer?


AviationParasite
20th May 2017, 09:03
Virgin Australia third quarter loss widens to $69 million | afr.com (http://www.afr.com/business/transport/aviation/virgin-australia-third-quarter-loss-widens-to-69-million-20170517-gw76tx)

69 Mil in 3 months. Going the need some more economy X head rests me thinks. Or maybe we can load the front hold with cash from HNA in HKG?

p.j.m
20th May 2017, 09:32
Going the need some more economy X head rests me thinks.

Virgin used to have premium service (compared to Jetstar) and they actually flew to their timetables.

Unfortunately some bright spark decided a race to the bottom with Jetstar was the was forward, and now the results speak for themselves, as people vote with their feet.

The Bullwinkle
20th May 2017, 09:39
as people vote with their feet.
Passengers AND Staff!

Falling Leaf
20th May 2017, 10:19
Virgin loses $767K a day.....for how much longer?

For as long as HNA are prepared to launder their cash through VA...

JB is spruiking his brilliance as the cash position has gone up and the debt has gone down while the losses pile up. It sure is a magic pudding! Maybe he should work for the Federal Government, would solve our debt and deficit position while increasing spending!

Icarus2001
20th May 2017, 11:21
For as long as HNA are prepared to launder their cash through VA...

You may need to research how "laundering money" works.

The idea is to actually keep some of it after it is "cleaned".

coaldemon
20th May 2017, 11:27
One of my contacts in business in the middle Kingdom has told me that there are now more capital controls on free flowing money out of China. Might be a dry old time if you are waiting for the cash to come from there.

AerialPerspective
20th May 2017, 17:51
For as long as HNA are prepared to launder their cash through VA...

JB is spruiking his brilliance as the cash position has gone up and the debt has gone down while the losses pile up. It sure is a magic pudding! Maybe he should work for the Federal Government, would solve our debt and deficit position while increasing spending!
But the debt has only gone down because they've paid it off with additional cash injections... how did this guy ever get where he is without balancing a cheque book or being able to add two and two... do they really think we're that dumb that we don't realise just by reading the reports in the news that extra cash has been piled in repeatedly.
There needs to be someone do a case study for a PhD in how a person comes into a company, spends billions it doesn't have creating lounges and cabins that it can't afford - and lounges that are cold and uninviting mind you - and run up losses for seven years and continually qualify for a bonus. Many said this bloke wasn't much chop at QF and just was in the right place at the right time to get promoted and maybe they're right... the last 7 years has proven beyond doubt why he didn't get the top job at QF.
I don't know what it is, must be something to do with the Dunning-Kreuger effect.

Falling Leaf
20th May 2017, 20:07
I find the complete lack of any meaningful journalism on the issue also interesting...

All there was from AFR, SBS and the Australian Aviation magazine was a cut and paste of the press release... I guess that's what passes for journalism in this country now; just let the companies with their PR departments write their own news for public consumption....

Would be nice if some investigative journalist who actually understood business to do a spread in the weekend Australian.

Anyone else noted that the Aviation section is not what it used to be, all airports, MH70 and drones these days.

Falling Leaf
20th May 2017, 20:09
You may need to research how "laundering money" works.

The idea is to actually keep some of it after it is "cleaned".

LOL - nice one. And if VA don't want to pay tax they could at least break even.

Rashid Bacon
20th May 2017, 20:56
Branson had to watch the Virgin America brand fold under Alaska Airlines, and wouldn't be too happy with this one right now with such appalling loss of capital requiring cash injections to pay the bills.

Complex diversity issues with Tiger, high internal operational costs are things this company needs to manage ASAP.

Virgin Blue were sailing very close to the wind prior to Ansett's demise - the current iteration is heading the same way without a massive refocus on core business.

CurtainTwitcher
20th May 2017, 22:31
I find the complete lack of any meaningful journalism on the issue also interesting...


All there was from AFR, SBS and the Australian Aviation magazine was a cut and paste of the press release... I guess that's what passes for journalism in this country now; just let the companies with their PR departments write their own news for public consumption....


“Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations.”
-- George Orwell

The answers to your question are covered here: Journalism just a PR exercise? (http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2847626.htm) & Over half your news is spin (https://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/15/over-half-your-news-is-spin/)


Here's a snip from the first article:

WENDY BACON: We found that over 50 per cent was generated by public relations. Now on some of those stories there had been some work done by journalists. But often pretty much they were just straight PR.

Berealgetreal
21st May 2017, 00:15
I've noted The Australian doing more like infomercials on Virgin.

Sydney Morning Herald or Fin Review are a better option.

4 Corners or The Investigators in the 80s were a favourite of mine.

Who can really tell what the numbers mean. What I do know is that QF are posting gigantic profits nearly every single quarter. Their share price has gone from just over $1 to a close of $4.58 within the last 3 years.

People like to say QF is all creative accounting. I say brand new 787's rolling in and starting new routes isn't creative accounting, it's a reality.

I completely disagree with those who are already criticising the new guy. There is indeed a change of guard going on and some of the new top jobs are going to some highly regarded people (SA included).


Virgin Australia chief executive John Borghetti receives Australia Day gong | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/01/virgin-australia-chief-executive-john-borghetti-receives-australia-day-gong/)

https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2017/05/20/another-blue-day-way-virgin-australia/

porch monkey
21st May 2017, 03:34
Why would Branson give a shit? He sold the majority of his shares years ago. He's down to 5%. Any way, to answer the question posed, at that rate and according to the last bank statement released by Borghetti, about 1900 days, I guess.

AerialPerspective
21st May 2017, 04:58
I've noted The Australian doing more like infomercials on Virgin.

Sydney Morning Herald or Fin Review are a better option.

4 Corners or The Investigators in the 80s were a favourite of mine.

Who can really tell what the numbers mean. What I do know is that QF are posting gigantic profits nearly every single quarter. Their share price has gone from just over $1 to a close of $4.58 within the last 3 years.

People like to say QF is all creative accounting. I say brand new 787's rolling in and starting new routes isn't creative accounting, it's a reality.

I completely disagree with those who are already criticising the new guy. There is indeed a change of guard going on and some of the new top jobs are going to some highly regarded people (SA included).
Some inaccuracies in the Sandilands article... firstly the bit about Ansett revenue management... they may not have been managing it well but they didn't have an 'inferior' RM tool to Qantas. Ansett bought the British Airways BABS system in 1991 or 2, including RS13 Revenue software... they implemented it over a two year period. Qantas similarly bought BABS a year or two later and also over a 2 year period integrated it. QF's product was identical to AN, they just used it better (aside from some pretty wizzy and clever software additions to the airport side of the system, QUBE was almost identical to Merlin DCS). AN and NZ then set up a project to acquire QUBE from Qantas and modify it to a new replacement for Merlin/Carina... it never went ahead.
Also, Qantas did not secure "60 unwanted" 737-800 from American's order book, it was more like 16 and then Qantas ordered/optioned more. So much like 'a stone skipping across a pond' these days with journalists who I think just repeat common misconceptions as facts rather than do actual research. It's not possible to be an airline/aviation expert in this context unless one has actually worked in an airline.

AviationParasite
21st May 2017, 06:23
True about 1900 days. I forgot the Fed might raise interest rates 0.25% and since most of 1.5-2 Billion in debt is probably in USD that about 5 million-ish in interest. Plus FX drop of AUD to USD to about 70c. So :bored: (carry one one, add the word underlying to every statement) about $700K a day underlying?

Why would Branson give a shit? He sold the majority of his shares years ago. He's down to 5%. Any way, to answer the question posed, at that rate and according to the last bank statement released by Borghetti, about 1900 days, I guess.

WasATrolleyDolly
21st May 2017, 09:57
The old game change, will be game over if the money flow doesn't reverse soon.

TBM-Legend
21st May 2017, 11:10
Back to reading other people's mail JB.....

The Bullwinkle
21st May 2017, 11:57
Back to reading other people's mail JB.....
I wouldn't even hire him for a job in the mail room!:mad:

Engineer_aus
21st May 2017, 12:53
How can one company continue to bleed so much cash without shutting up shop?

Ken Borough
21st May 2017, 13:19
Is the game plan to hurt Qantas?

virginexcess
21st May 2017, 23:51
the 1900 days doesn't take into account bond maturity. Because our shareprice is so low, balance sheet so rooted and P & L in the toilet, he can't borrow any more money, at least not at sustainable interest rates, so he had to go to the bond market (junk bond market), and I assume those bonds will have a maturation date. As that date arrives he'll need to find another greater fool to get some money from to pay back the bonds.

I was watching wizard of lies last night, which is about the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme. Can someone tell me how this is any different, other than the Virgin figures are in the public domain for all to see, yet everyone is still being dazzled by JB's personality.

People wonder how things like the Enron collaps can happen, yet here we are watching it unfold in slow motion. We all know what's happening, yet nobody is doing anything. It can only be that the dysfunctional makeup of the board has rendered it useless due to the competing interests of the major shareholders.

maggot
22nd May 2017, 00:13
I dunno, he was hired to spend big to turn Vaus into a premium yield airline. And so he did and the major shareholders put their hands in their pockets to fund this. Why the surprise?

AerialPerspective
22nd May 2017, 00:29
I dunno, he was hired to spend big to turn Vaus into a premium yield airline. And so he did and the major shareholders put their hands in their pockets to fund this. Why the surprise?
Because he was touted in the media and other outlets as a genius... he wasn't, he wasn't a genius at Qantas, he might have been good to some staff but in the whole, at Qantas, none of the strategy, etc. was his, he was more than likely just in the right place at the right time and it would seem was passed over for the CEO job because they judged him not to be up to it, if so, this is being borne out right now - even the WORST CEO of Qantas has never racked up 7 years of losses, destruction of the balance sheet, share price down the toilet and nothing, absolutely nothing, to show for it except some glossy, white tiled, chilly feeling and over-hyped so-called lounges that make me feel like I'm in a hospital waiting room. The much vaunted 'The Club' is a joke. Not even in the same street as the Chairman's Lounge and all by invitation so no fees charged and millions spent on it... it comes down to the fact that he is a salesperson only and one with the ability it would seem of a mail room boy. It's all front. My question is just how long does this continue... if this was Qantas, people would be screaming for his head. Just imagine what shape Qantas would be in now had he got the job.

maggot
22nd May 2017, 00:34
So his spending plan and strategy wasn't sanctioned by the board?

AerialPerspective
22nd May 2017, 00:49
Usually the strategy is developed by the CEO, the board simply approve it based on what they are told and yes, I blame them too for continually letting him go with zero runs on the board.

dragon man
22nd May 2017, 00:53
I have no skin in this game but QF are getting lots of applications from Virgin pilots and also recruiting them. I guess they don't like the look of things either.

chuboy
22nd May 2017, 01:59
Question is... Considering new aircraft and other major investments are off the table given balance sheet... What else can be done to fix situation?

Doubt there will be another chance at capital raising given Singapore and Etihad in particular have got losses of their own to deal with.

Domestic demand likely to remain subdued for some time. Can't be many throws of the dice left, hope I'm wrong.

mikewil
22nd May 2017, 02:30
Question is... Considering new aircraft and other major investments are off the table


Has the 737MAX order been deferred?

BPA
22nd May 2017, 03:00
Question is... Considering new aircraft and other major investments are off the table given balance sheet... What else can be done to fix situation?

Doubt there will be another chance at capital raising given Singapore and Etihad in particular have got losses of their own to deal with.

Domestic demand likely to remain subdued for some time. Can't be many throws of the dice left, hope I'm wrong.

How would new aircraft fix the problem? The A330's are less than a 5 years old and are the best aircraft for Asia (where they are about to go). QF and the majority of the Asian airlines are operating them on the Australia to Asia routes.

Same goes with the NG's, most are less than 5 years old, with the older ones eventually going to Tiger.

The B777's are older than 5 years, but they are still the best aicraft for the Pacific route.

Given, the cost of fuel at the moment why purchase/lease new aicraft that will incur higher purchase/lease expenses for no real savings, as the saving in fuel costs were be outweighed by the purchase/ lease costs.

The MAX's have been deferred to next year, due to the above.

Seems a number of people on here want to see VA fall over, why is that? Did they miss out on a job at VB/VA? The same occurred a few years back when QF was in a bad way.

Everyone seems to forget that both airlines employ a large number of Australian's, plus there are the support companies that the also employ more Australian's.

We should be happy that we do not have a monopoly or is that what everyone wants?

Goat Whisperer
22nd May 2017, 03:06
737Max deliveries deferred to 2019... VA can't afford the more fuel/maintenance efficient aircraft.

Justin. Beaver
22nd May 2017, 03:28
I doubt that many want to see VA fall over completely, including Qantas, who want a weak but still viable competitor in the duopoly market.

The elephant in the room that no one has really talked about is that VA has allowed their cost base to blow out at a pace beyond their revenue. In what looks like an attempt to avoid any labour disputes while trying to secure the corporate accounts they need, VA has 'sold the farm' on costs and allowed them to balloon far too close to Qantas's costs, when they are simply unable to charge anything like what Qantas can charge their corporate clients. I don't think VA will be back in the back until they address this fundamental issue and it may require some industrial discomfort to achieve.

AerialPerspective
22nd May 2017, 03:48
How would new aircraft fix the problem? The A330's are less than a 5 years old and are the best aircraft for Asia (where they are about to go). QF and the majority of the Asian airlines are operating them on the Australia to Asia routes.

Same goes with the NG's, most are less than 5 years old, with the older ones eventually going to Tiger.

The B777's are older than 5 years, but they are still the best aicraft for the Pacific route.

Given, the cost of fuel at the moment why purchase/lease new aicraft that will incur higher purchase/lease expenses for no real savings, as the saving in fuel costs were be outweighed by the purchase/ lease costs.

The MAX's have been deferred to next year, due to the above.

Seems a number of people on here want to see VA fall over, why is that? Did they miss out on a job at VB/VA? The same occurred a few years back when QF was in a bad way.

Everyone seems to forget that both airlines employ a large number of Australian's, plus there are the support companies that the also employ more Australian's.

We should be happy that we do not have a monopoly or is that what everyone wants?
Nobody wants to see it fall over, which is why many are saying it's time the CEO went back to the mail room... and the media for one stopped trying the canonize him as being some sort of genius which he isn't... all the crap in the media at the time, including from Branson himself about how Qantas will rue the day they let him go. No they won't and they're not... they're probably celebrating the fact they didn't promote him. One of the reasons I think this has all gone south is because the 'strategy' from this particularly small minded person was not to beat Qantas but to 'get back at' them for denying him the job, it's certainly how it seems and his book seems to be dripping with hatred for his former employer, even saying some pretty off color and completely unsubstantiated things about a Qantas incident which almost seems actionable - surprised Qantas haven't moved on it but then again, perhaps leaving it just says more about him than them. Rumor was that he was referred to a few years back in the Qantas circles as 'mini me' as he seemed to not have a strategy, just copy everything Qantas had. Well, well done. He's now at the helm of an airline that was once profitable but now has unit costs higher than Qantas' on just about every metric. Again, no one wants to see it fall over, just to see someone who knows what they're doing take it over and save it, if indeed there's anything left to save.

chuboy
22nd May 2017, 04:04
Don't get me wrong I want them to survive as much as anyone.

I say new aircraft because 5 777s and 6 A330 is not really enough to have a meaningful international network from the golden triangle. The types are fine but there aren't enough of them to maintain a daily feed into the hubs of its biggest three partners, which is what attracts the high yielding business pax.

AerialPerspective
22nd May 2017, 04:09
Don't get me wrong I want them to survive as much as anyone.

I say new aircraft because 5 777s and 6 A330 is not really enough to have a meaningful international network from the golden triangle. The types are fine but there aren't enough of them to maintain a daily feed into the hubs of its biggest three partners, which is what attracts the high yielding business pax.
Not only that, the 777 aren't worth much to sell anyway because some moron at VA (DJ) who obviously knew nothing about aircraft, international ops or re-sale went ahead and removed the wide door on the rear hold so the aircraft can't carry pallets fore and aft, only forward making them largely useless to any serious long haul operator... knowing what I know I'm sure they were warned not to do it but went ahead anyway because they can't be told.

porch monkey
22nd May 2017, 04:09
Virginexcess - Sarcasm, bud.

longlegs
22nd May 2017, 05:31
Déjà Vu

Haemorrhaging cash, a CEO under pressure and those god damned 777 rear cargo doors......

The SMH
July 27 2009
Small cargo door restricts Virgin
Matt O'Sullivan

A SIMPLE rear cargo door could hinder Virgin Blue's ability to raise much-needed cash.

Australia's second-largest airline is believed to have attempted sale-and-leaseback deals for some of the new Boeing 777-300 passenger jets its long-haul carrier, V Australia, flies between Australia and the US.

But Virgin's decision when it ordered the aircraft from Boeing to opt for smaller rear cargo doors means the 777s cannot take freight in pallets.

Not only does this make them less appealing to aircraft leasing companies, it reduces the airline's ability to offset weak passenger loads on flights between Australia and Los Angeles by carrying large cargo.

It is estimated the sale and leaseback of a single 777 could raise more than $100 million for Virgin. Sales and leasebacks of aircraft are one of the few ways for airlines to single-handedly boost their cash reserves.

Boeing 777s and Airbus 320s are believed to be some of the few aircraft models that leasing companies have an appetite for at present amid a large surplus of planes caused by the global downturn in travel.

But industry insiders also say that V Australia's new 777s have been modified to such an extent - each aircraft has inbuilt features such as two bars and high-tech entertainment systems - that the airline cannot gain a fair value from a sale and leaseback. It is believed it would cost up to $10 million to restore each aircraft to a standard state to make it suitable to leasing companies.

"Those leasing companies just don't like non-standard aircraft," an industry official said.

It further limits Virgin's options for gaining working capital after a lukewarm response from institutional investors to a capital-raising.

Although V Australia did lease the first 777, it bought two more directly from Boeing this year. The aircraft have a list price of more than $US250 million ($300 million) each, but the airline paid considerably less.

V Australia is due to take delivery of a fourth 777 this month, which will allow it to begin flights between Melbourne and Los Angeles in September.

At least the first three 777s have smaller rear cargo doors than standard models. The doors cannot be enlarged later to allow the loading of pallets because they are a structural part of the aircraft.

V Australia and Hawaiian Airlines are among the few international carriers flying from Australia that have opted for smaller rear cargo doors on their longer-range wide-body aircraft.

Virgin has recently shown a desire to sell and lease back aircraft to bolster its balance sheet, having completed such a deal for three new Boeing 737-800s and an older plane in March with BOC Aviation of China.

SandyPalms
22nd May 2017, 06:16
Don't VA 777's have small doors both Fwd and Aft?

AerialPerspective
22nd May 2017, 06:18
What, like these doors?
Boeing 777-312/ER - Singapore Airlines | Aviation Photo #3907445 | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Singapore-Airlines/Boeing-777-312-ER/3907445/L)

or these?
Boeing 777-3D7/ER - Thai Airways International | Aviation Photo #4361355 | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Thai-Airways-International/Boeing-777-3D7-ER/4361355?qsp=eJwtjcEKwjAQRH%2Bl7FmhUjDQm/6AHvyBJRnaYDVhs1BD6b%2B7hN4eM4%2BZjXz6Kn76qhk0UgGLn%2BlEmYU/hcaN3qhrkmBMOnPsnHPd0PdniGklid6rVYEVN%2B%2BRFeHIHxLMsQrFt8XJ Hi4GkGdjGq6Wh1jywm0DynGhff8Dpe0wvQ%3D%3D)

or these?
Boeing 777-346/ER - Japan Airlines - JAL | Aviation Photo #2651548 | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan-Airlines-JAL/Boeing-777-346-ER/2651548?qsp=eJwtjEEKAjEQBL8ic1ZYWTCwN/2AHvzAMGl0NZowGdCw7N8dgreiu6iFJL8NX7u2ApqoglXutKXCyq9K00JPtE/W6EwPTpsQwm4cBqhLNaudmh%2BRDUcRFEP872eN7viFKr138/7eAXrpTOPB9zjXkrg3YDwnWtcfSoowLg%3D%3D)

or these?
Boeing 777-31B/ER - SkyTeam (China Southern Airlines) | Aviation Photo #2751848 | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/SkyTeam-China-Southern-Airlines/Boeing-777-31B-ER/2751848?qsp=eJwtjEEKwkAQBP8yZ4VgwIXc4gf04AeG2cYEo7vMDpgl5O9O oreu7qYWkvQ2zHavGdRRAasMdKDMyq9C3UJP1E/S6JlCCMe2aaB%2BKEntUr2MbOhFkA3x3181%2BscnFNldj8192iL09qP27Bj HkifeLTAeJ1rXL9PdLxw%3D)

They must be non-serious long haul operators I guess:rolleyes:
Yes. Just like those... and likely they will find the same as VA did when they tried to sell and lease back their aircraft with the small door and no lessor would touch them... a used aircraft that doesn't have the additional flexibility. It was a stupid decision, considering they lose money hand over fist on the Pacific, it is incredibly stupid not to have had this option which could streamline an additional revenue stream by carrying transfer freight on pallet base units, but no surprise for a carrier that buys a regional airline then sells half it's fleet and contracts out the flying to another operator - and no, I don't consider just because SQ, TG, JL and a Chinese carrier ordered them that that makes it smart. SQ has made plenty of dumb decisions in the past, like buying everything that flies to do the same job... Thai Airways who apparently TWICE damaged MD-11s doing engine runs which jumped the chocks and Japan Airlines who were allegedly broke and had to be bailed out by QF, AA and others.
It's akin to AN ordering the 767 without the wide cargo door at the front and then not being able to easily transfer pallets to its 747s from the 5 original aircraft or ordering (paying more) for the A320 without ULD capability to save money on GSE, then spending millions more on injury compensation. These are things that experienced airlines generally don't do.

coaldemon
22nd May 2017, 07:47
VA have 3 B777s with the small doors and 2 with the big doors. AP is correct on the transfer issues but they were carrying over 15 tonnes of freight out of LA each night to Syd up until recently. Must have the large door ones doing that route only.

chookcooker
22nd May 2017, 09:03
Yes. Just like those... and likely they will find the same as VA did when they tried to sell and lease back their aircraft with the small door and no lessor would touch them... a used aircraft that doesn't have the additional flexibility. It was a stupid decision, considering they lose money hand over fist on the Pacific, it is incredibly stupid not to have had this option which could streamline an additional revenue stream by carrying transfer freight on pallet base units, but no surprise for a carrier that buys a regional airline then sells half it's fleet and contracts out the flying to another operator - and no, I don't consider just because SQ, TG, JL and a Chinese carrier ordered them that that makes it smart. SQ has made plenty of dumb decisions in the past, like buying everything that flies to do the same job... Thai Airways who apparently TWICE damaged MD-11s doing engine runs which jumped the chocks and Japan Airlines who were allegedly broke and had to be bailed out by QF, AA and others.
It's akin to AN ordering the 767 without the wide cargo door at the front and then not being able to easily transfer pallets to its 747s from the 5 original aircraft or ordering (paying more) for the A320 without ULD capability to save money on GSE, then spending millions more on injury compensation. These are things that experienced airlines generally don't do.
Don't dispute it's not ideal, just that the stupid decision was isolated to VA and that "smart carriers" knew better.

Ive heard all the rumours related to that decision too, like the one where Boeing had to manufacture the Jig to make the door as nobody else ordered one with the small door, and the original Jig was lost.
The rumour was that Va were literally the only ones getting around.
Obviously complete and utter bullshit but it went around.

SQ not an experienced, smart long haul carrier??
Care to name a long haul airline that has only made good decisions?

The Bullwinkle
22nd May 2017, 09:14
Care to name a long haul airline that has only made good decisions?
It's not that no airline has ever made a bad decision.
It's just that VA (or their so-called management) has made so many bad decisions, it's hard to even think of any good decisions they've made, hence why they are going broke!

chookcooker
22nd May 2017, 09:59
It's not that no airline has ever made a bad decision.
It's just that VA (or their so-called management) has made so many bad decisions, it's hard to even think of any good decisions they've made, hence why they are going broke!
Agreed. (Minimum characters)

Icarus2001
22nd May 2017, 10:15
It would be fair to say all companies, not just airlines make poor decisions. One of my favourites was Brett Godfrey and the swipe to watch IFE mess.

All that matters is how they are tracking now and that is badly. Losing $32,000 per hour, every day for three months has got to hurt.

Perhaps they want to drive down the share price to mop up the public shares and go private?

The Bullwinkle
22nd May 2017, 10:38
Perhaps they want to drive down the share price to mop up the public shares and go private?
Or perhaps JB is still working for QANTAS.
He's been MIA for so long now, it's obvious that his heart isn't in the job at VA, which is very demoralising for the long term staff who helped to build this place from virtually nothing.
They have to stand by helplessly watching him reduce it back to virtually nothing!

Rabbitwear
22nd May 2017, 15:58
Air New Zealand might pick up the pieces .

TBM-Legend
22nd May 2017, 22:21
Air New Zealand might pick up the pieces .

Good idea now where's Garry T. ?

Dale Hardale
22nd May 2017, 23:23
Good idea now where's Garry T. ? Absolutely no idea :E

Rabbitwear
23rd May 2017, 01:29
Absolutely no idea :E
https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/01/17/last-ansett-ceo-gary-toomey-is-absolutely-free/

Boeing7107
23rd May 2017, 04:12
with the VA/NZ alliance, understand that they must keep BNE/DUD/BNE services going, no matter how much of a loss they make on those sectors. Please correct me if I'm wrong, with this statement.

Timings used to be arrive DUD mid afternoon, turn around in an hour or so & head straight back to BNE.

Now the timings are arrive DUD just before midnight, park aircraft there for 8+ hours & then fly back to BNE at 0800. These timing surely only suit Kiwis. Heard that lots of Australians used to fly into DUD, but now, unless they are giving away seats, what Australian wants to land at 2340 & come home at 0800. Are VA/NZ trying to get rid of BNE/DUD/BNE services altogether by saying to NZ & Australian authorities they can't make a go of that route. Believe route has been operated by VA metal for quite a few years now.

Does VA do any maintenance at DUD ? If not, why leave aircraft parked there for 8 or so hours ?

BNEA320
23rd May 2017, 06:24
when do the cutbacks at VA start ? Must be a lot of staff going ? Middle management ?

Heard they have managers for managers for managers. Worse than Qantas, if that's posisble.

KRUSTY 34
23rd May 2017, 11:37
What I would like to know, is where are the (too clever for the company's own good) architects of the entire VARA ATR fiasco.

They should be the first ones to get the chop. That is, unless they have already taken their KPI's and moved on to the next "project". :rolleyes:

mickjoebill
23rd May 2017, 12:22
What would happen to velocity points if Virgin went flakey?
So now is the time to use my 250k velocity points?

blow.n.gasket
23rd May 2017, 14:52
Maybe Il Dolce is just further emulating what his former colleagues over at Qantas have allegedly done.
Drive the share price down through massive write offs, lock in a large tranche of executive bonus shares at the depressed price and then miraculously through a transformation program, turn the ship around and massage the share price higher before cashing them in.
Hell you could even dump them on the market after they vest depressing the share price due to the sheer volume and then buy a parcel back at the reduced price.
Simples really!

Boe787
24th May 2017, 02:16
Ah yes, rumoured, Alan and the other execs at Qantas have done very nicely with this scam!

As that Oils song Goes , "the rich get richer, and the rest of us get the picture"

Ken Borough
24th May 2017, 07:51
I hope that a couple of the posters here have a lot of insurance and/or a very good team of lawyers. I'll say no more!

Icarus2001
24th May 2017, 07:55
Just because you can track where the post came from by IP that does not prove to any required burden of proof, who was tapping the keys.

romeocharlie
25th May 2017, 05:54
Ken, I hope that JB and his fellow compatriot board members have more than lawyers when the next investors meeting is called.

Surfstitch just got sued for $100 million for similar with their share price, I don't imagine VAH is far away from that either.... Someone has to be held accountable for losing this much money.

AerialPerspective
25th May 2017, 06:39
Ken, I hope that JB and his fellow compatriot board members have more than lawyers when the next investors meeting is called.

Surfstitch just got sued for $100 million for similar with their share price, I don't imagine VAH is far away from that either.... Someone has to be held accountable for losing this much money.
They need to realise that it's not their money but belongs to shareholders. The problem is though, as is the case with the large institutional investors in Qantas, they are not concerned with ordinary shareholders losing money. The law does need to be strengthened to stop practices that are tantamount to fraud though.

CaptainUber
30th May 2017, 09:37
On top of that they have very few spares!

mr did
31st May 2017, 09:20
Cathay bought all of their 777-200s with the smaller door, a disconnect between purchasing and cargo as to the requirement. Some years ago, but VA aren't the only dummies in this game.

Not widely known, HNA book dodge up to 30% tax on new aircraft when they put second hand aircraft into China. It is the rumoured reason for the loss making Hong Kong Airlines, another HNA subsidiary, even being in existence: cycling aircraft through to the mainland parts of the company after a year or two in HK. Maybe a bunch of HNA leased A330s heading for VA?

And don't discount the value of this company to the Chinese. The Lowy Institute used their big brains to push Qantas into this whole China and Asia Jetstar set up because that is where the statistics said the massive market potential is. Jetstar is a failure in Asia, but HNA already have the China network to do what Qantas couldn't, they just needed the Aus part. Perhaps we will see a paint scheme change soon to the red and yellow?

Berealgetreal
31st May 2017, 11:22
Ah yes, more 330's that's what is needed...NOT.
If you're not using 787/350 you're not in the game.

QF group is just warming up, the fun hasn't started yet!
Wait til the squadron of 78's and NEO's roll in.

BPA
31st May 2017, 11:35
Ah yes, more 330's that's what is needed...NOT.
If you're not using 787/350 you're not in the game.

QF group is just warming up, the fun hasn't started yet!
Wait til the squadron of 78's and NEO's roll in.

Yet most airlines in Asia continue to operate the A330 to Australia. Only yesterday SriLankan announced they would be flying to Melbourne in the A330.

QF today announced they will be deploying the A330 from Sydney to Auckland.

AerialPerspective
31st May 2017, 13:08
Or perhaps JB is still working for QANTAS.
He's been MIA for so long now, it's obvious that his heart isn't in the job at VA, which is very demoralising for the long term staff who helped to build this place from virtually nothing.
They have to stand by helplessly watching him reduce it back to virtually nothing!
Shows somewhat of a lack of character doesn't it... face hanging out of everything and always talking to people when the going was good, now things are not so good and the excuses have run out, nowhere to be seen. Some people might hate Joyce but at least he's always out in the media and/or announcing stuff... I don't remember him going to ground when he was on the nose with the media.

Buster Hyman
31st May 2017, 14:23
As that Oils song Goes , "the rich get richer, and the poor get the picture"
Fixed. :ok:


Some people might hate Joyce but at least he's always out in the media and/or announcing stuff... I don't remember him going to ground when he was on the nose with the media.
Or getting a pie in the face.

AerialPerspective
31st May 2017, 15:52
Fixed. :ok:



Or getting a pie in the face.
Haha, yes, that thought went through my mind too... no pie in the face for the MRB because no one knows where he is...