Transitioning from Cessna 150 to 172S

[Cessna_79S]

Hi. I'm a low time (54hrs) private pilot who got the license from the FAA.
I've done all my training in a little cessna 150. But in order to get a license transition to my country's license, i have to do a simplified checkride again.
The problem is that there is no Cessna 150 available in my country. All the trainings here are conducted with Cessna 172s and Diamonds.

I choose 172S for the license transition and the course starts 2months later.
I'm really worried about transitioning to an unfamiliar aircraft. What can i do to prepare for that before the course starts? Are there a lot of differences between those two aircrafts?

Thank you and happy landings in advance to everyone

[Pilot DAR]

Welcome 79S,

You'll have no problem transitioning from the 150 to the 172. Avoid carrying back seat occupants, or aft C of G's for your first flying, and you'll be fine. The 172 is a little heavier, which will mean to have to allow for a very slight delay in the affect of control inputs compared to the 150, but also, it's not upset by a gust as easily. Pay more attention to your fuel selector.

Worry not, after an hour's flying, it'll fit like a Cessna glove...

[alex90]

Step 1 : Take a deep breath in, hold it in for 10 seconds, and slowly breathe out...
Step 2 : Sit down and close your eyes
Step 3 : Repeat step 1 two or three times, then open your eyes (if you're still awake)

Now you're ready, to take your next steps.

Your PPL training will have encompassed all the things that apply to most SEP (single engine piston) non-complex aeroplanes. All planes are ever so slightly different, speeds vary slightly, the view from outside the plane is ever so slightly different too - even in the same type of plane, two C150 may feel completely different to one another!

Biggest differences between the C150 and C172 is that the the C172 is much bigger, has 4 seats, more fuel, and generally a bigger engine which consumes more fuel per hour. The biggest difference to me was the weight of the plane, was that the 150 really gets bumped around in every thermal / gust, whilst the 172 is a little more stable. Depending on what year / type / upgrade has been done on the 172, you may have a fuel injected engine which although runs the same, has a different start procedure and no carburettor heat which you'll need to get used to. But all the main buttons and knobs are all in the same place.

What I would do, is ask the school where you are going's POH for the C172, and skim read it paying attention to the weight and balance, various speeds (landing / takeoff / stall / vfe....), any limiting factors (such as VFE), takeoff and landing distances, and fuel contents. The school may also have handling notes, that may be of use to you. Also ask if they have a checklist that you can buy / have - that will get you used to the checks required (its all generally the same between the two, but familiarity will help!)

On the whole, it isn't THAT different - and you'll be just fine! Don't expect to be a perfect pilot within a 30 minute check flight - but after a few hours, you'll realise that its all the same!

Hope this helps!

[9 lives]

The school may also have handling notes, that may be of use to you. Also ask if they have a checklist that you can buy / have - that will get you used to the checks required

The checklist that you need will be in the flight manual, and any flight manual supplements which might be approved for that particular aircraft. As the flight manual and any supplements are actually approved (which no flying school is entitled to do), those are the "official" references by which you should fly the aircraft. The school may have local standard operating procedures, information about traffic patterns, avoid areas, frequencies etc., and that's perfectly fine, but the operation of the aircraft should be in accordance with the approved data.

The 172 is about the most common aircraft in use in the world. There's really nothing new to say about it, which had not been well documented during the last 60 years. Therefore things like handling notes, which are pretty important for other much less well known types, are not needed for the 172. Fly it within the placarded limitations, and it's hard to go wrong.

[P.Pilcher]

What I used to love about the 172 when I spent a season pleasure flying in one was that you could sit at the end of the runway, set 10 degrees flap and start the takeoff roll. Without any obvious change in attitude the aeroplane would politely lift off at the correct speed which my pax, many of whom had never flown before, very much appreciated.

P.P.

[Ebbie 2003]

The good news is that the 172 is easier to fly than the 150/152 - you'll have no problems at all.

[thing]

The 172 is an absolute pussy, the definition of a 'car with wings.' You will have no problem whatsoever moving over, don't even give it a moment's worry.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The good news is that the 172 is easier to fly than the 150/152 - you'll have no problems at all.
Harder to land than the 152 though if you can't control your speed adequately - a 172 is a little more fussy about trying to land too fast than a 152.

[Cessna_79S]

Thank you all for the kind answers. To sum up your answers, i don't have to be nervous about getting familiar with it and study the airplane properly with AFM,POH and checklists because there are some differences about the systems. Right?

[9 lives]

79S, Bear in mind that all certified airplanes are certified to a standard of "must not require unusual pilot skill and attention" [to fly]. Yes, different types, obviously have differences - that is the point. But, within a class, those differences generally won't be so great that a reasonably practiced pilot can't manage okay. Certainly a Cessna 150 to a 172S is completely within the realm of "you can manage". I extend this statement to transition between C172/PA-28 fixed gear series.

That should not be taken to mean that you don't bother to understand the aircraft, nor seek some training. But, you should feel confident in going ahead with the flying. The fuel injection requires a little more awareness, and slightly different technique - so read the flight manual.

Where you should be much more cautious, are future class changes. Transitioning from C 150/152/172 to a C 177 or 210, for example requires some training, and mentored practice. A part of this is of course retractable gear, which should be trained to you. Flying the T tailed PA-28's requires type specific mentoring. And, of course, tailwheel and float flying require specific additional training.

One of the skills you want to build in piloting is to be confident in learning a new type. Certainly, ask type specific questions here, but read and understand the flight manual for the aircraft you propose to fly. Don't fixate on memorizing speeds to the knot, the ones you must know are marked on the airspeed indicator - by regulation. Rather focus on understanding the systems and differences of the aircraft, and how you will handle an unusual event without fumbling for checklists. Use the checklist to check that you're already doing what you should do, rather than as a recipe for flying the aircraft.

[thing]

Rather focus on understanding the systems and differences of the aircraft, and how you will handle an unusual event without fumbling for checklists.

Opinions vary on that, I might add that I don't have a real opinion one way or another but I was doing an annual checkride in an Arrow last year and on downwind the instructor (who is CFI of his own ATO and well respected) gave me a simulated gear failure. I know the drill off by heart and as I started to go through the sequence he stopped me and firmly :) said 'No, no, no, get the checklist out and use it, that's what it's there for.'

[Maoraigh1]

Gear failure - no hurry unless you don't have the specified fuel reserve. There are other problems which could escalate as you reach for the checklist.

[9 lives]

There are other problems which could escalate as you reach for the checklist.

Very much agreed!

Know your systems first, then fly what you know....

[thing]

Yep, can't say I disagree with either of you but it does show there are different opinions out there amongst people who know far better than me.

[9 lives]

I can't argue against the use of checklists, however there are flaws in the concept, in a single pilot situation. If the checklist is being used by a second crew member, as a challenge and response, when that second crew member is not task saturated, excellent. However, when a pilot is trying to fly, manage an abnormal situation, the attempt to use a checklist as "instructions", could itself become task saturation for the pilot. And, if a checklist is being used, and that use is interrupted, really the checklist should be begun again from the top. More task saturation, with the possibility that the checklist must be restarted several times to get to the end.

The use of a checklist during normal operations, when the pilot is able to allocate time for its use is fine. But, abnormal events of an urgent nature may not be the right time to refer to a checklist - those should be memory items, based upon understanding the aircraft. Get it settled, then when all is calm, and the aircraft secure, and under control, refer to the checklist to assure that the steps you have taken were correct and complete.

In the context of 150 to 172, this is low seriousness stuff. Aside possibly from fuel mismanaged caused engine failures, there really aren't any abnormal events in a 150 or 172 for which a checklist needs to be used in real time. Yes, during normal operations, of after the event, refer to the checklist.

The only thing worse than not referring to the checklist, when you really needed to, is referring to it, and missing some steps, 'cause you rushed, and not knowing that you missed those steps!

For certain complex aircraft I fly, I do use a checklist, as I recognize, that although I know how to fly it, missing a step, particularly during a turbine engine start, can cause an expensive mistake. For the 150 - 172... if you miss a start step, it probably just won't start!

[fujii]

How did people manage before the internet. I flew a C172 when I learning to fly in 1969 and the C150 wasn't available one day. The instructor said something like its a bit bigger. That was it, take away the mystery and fly the aircraft. If you approach any new aircraft looking for commonalities it's much easier.

[thing]

Likewise people who are told they will need a couple of hours 'conversion' training from something like a 172 to a 28. Am I wrong to think that some ATOs milk it a little? I can go from a Ford to a Honda without a driving instructor sitting with me for an hour. Ok that might be an over simplification but you get my drift.

I learned to fly mostly in a 172. The first time I flew a 28 I asked my instructor what the difference was, he said 'The main difference is you have to bend down to take a fuel sample'. One circuit later I was away on my own in it.

[tobster911]

I learned to fly mostly in a 172. The first time I flew a 28 I asked my instructor what the difference was, he said 'The main difference is you have to bend down to take a fuel sample'. One circuit later I was away on my own in it.
Haha, love it. I learned in a DR400, HR200 and a C172 (Majority of hours in the HR200). When I converted onto the PA28, I was told I'd need 2 hours, 1 hour in the circuit, and 1 hour doing upper air work. In the circuit, for the first 45 minutes, I was taught incorrectly, but after the instructor correcting his mistake, 2 touch and gos were done perfectly (I just found it difficult to press the brakes properly due to the weird bit of bodywork across where the brakes should be).
I found the upper air work really helpful, not really for the actual flying/stalling etc, but more for just being taught about the fan controls and cabin heating etc (the little luxuries).
I'm now wanting to convert properly onto the C172, but don't want to pay £360 for two hours that I probably won't really need as I did my first circuits in a 172...

[alex90]

Thing - haha! For me the biggest difference was reaching for the trim wheel without looking and not finding it... (old habbits eh?) It was even more confusing where to find the trim when I flew an older PA28 with the trim overhead!!

The only reason I mentioned checklist - and this specifically relates to the fact that he/she is changing school, and the school's checklist may be slightly different. Same applies re: handling notes, this is again only to minimise the potential for the school to milk it a little more... This is only for familiarity. If you've read it a few times, in the order and style that the particular checklist they use has, it makes it a little easier once you're in the plane.

Generally speaking, all SEP planes can be flown with the same "patter", (ie: downwind checks that I was taught included "gear - fixed, propeller pitch fixed... etc... which I have used in all SEPs I have flown without alteration other than the particular answer to each, for instance "gear down and locked, three greens" or "carb-heat - not applicable" or "alternator not present") aside from the slightly different engine start procedures - its all the same titles.

Re: gear issue, I think it would be wise, to know your systems. I have always gone through the first "sanity" check before reaching for the checklist (ie: in the PA28 - are my instrument lights on in daylight? Have I selected gear down? Is the knob really in the down position? Are the light bulbs working? Is the emergency gear lever in the correct position? Is the override on? - then when all those failed, I placed myself in a known position, away from the circuit and planned a loose holding pattern to work out my issues, and then and only then reached for the checklist to work through it methodically to ensure all possibilities are covered, before making the decision where I would rather land her on the belly, ie: which aerodromes nearby with emergency facilities open? tarmac? grass? etc...

Generally - something in the sanity check will remind you that you've been an idiot, and you can rectify this without having to leave the circuit to work out the problem by following a checklist properly.

Yes, Cessna_79S - I think the move between C150 and C172 will be similar to moving from say... a Nissan Micra to a Ford Focus - the controls are the same, the same principles apply when you're driving, its a bit bigger, have a bigger engine, the speeds between the gears is a little different, as is where all the buttons are. But really... Its pretty much the same - you should get it pretty instantly. The reason I mention a few hours, is that generally schools will milk it if they can, and a low hour PPL they'll find something that they believe you weren't taught in the same way and try to persuade you their technique is better.... (been there many times). Clubs are a much better option in my mind!

[flyinkiwi]

I learned to fly mostly in a 172. The first time I flew a 28 I asked my instructor what the difference was, he said 'The main difference is you have to bend down to take a fuel sample'. One circuit later I was away on my own in it.

Like you I learned in 172s and although the actual flying skills transferred seamlessly to the Pa28 learning the different systems wasn't as straight forward. Fuel pump, tank switching (no both setting?!?) electric trim, manual flaps - they all took some time to get used to. Did you fly a slab or tapered wing Pa28? They fly quite differently to each other, let alone a 172.

[thing]

Electric trim?!!! Very posh!

Yes I fly both slab and tapered. As for different switchery etc it's just a matter of sitting in the pit and familiarising yourself with the layout and of course reading the POH, something I do for every aircraft, never mind aircraft type, that I fly.

[horizon flyer]

I found that the reference points are different in steep turns needed a bit of work.
The other concerns are the high out of trim force in full flap go around.
Always check seat locks work before take off as have been known to slide under these situation with fatal results and last do a 30dg flap stall with 1500rpm holding the nose level classic approach stall with the instructor. Do not do below 3000 agl can go into a spin.

The other is watch the all up weight with 4 up easy to exceed max but difficult to load out of balance. Otherwise they are great used to love trying to scrap the tail tie down ring on landing very slow on touch down but miss the 40 dg flap setting on older models, super for steep approaches but any model can be side slipped with up to 30.

Take care and have fun.

[9 lives]

It's wise to consider, and be prepared for differences in handling between types, but don't be too worried. For the most part, with low tailed, tricycle, single engined certified GA types, there could be more difference heavy to light, forward C of G to aft, or hot day to cold day, then the differences between type in the same conditions. The aircraft being certified gives the pilot confidence that the aircraft handling will be within a range of what an average skill pilot would be able to safely manage. I've flown lots of different types, and only rarely did I think to myself "I've got a tiger by the tail this time!".

Often due to really good design, an airplane will fly better than it looks like it will. My greatest lesson in this was a back seat flight in a Harvard. It looks like it would fly like a DC-3, but it's a light delight!After five minutes of getting the feel of it, I did a few rolls and loops (competent pilot in the front, of course).

Yes, consider differences, but don't be afraid of them, the real fire breathers are not on the rental flight line, so you won't blunder into one.