Strike threat at Cranwell

[dctyke]

http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/increase-pay-or-we-ll-walk-out-union-s-raf-cranwell-warning/story-30330390-detail/story.html

[Stuff]

Clickable version: 'Increase pay or we'll walk out' - union's RAF Cranwell warning | Lincolnshire Live (http://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/increase-pay-or-we-ll-walk-out-union-s-raf-cranwell-warning/story-30330390-detail/story.html)


GMB says its policy is that profit-seeking contractors have no place in the Ministry of Defence and that ancillary services should be provided by directly employed workers who will spend their money in the local community.


Good luck with that! The MOD are going to a contractor because the provision of cleaning, grass-cutting, light bulb replacement etc are not what the MOD's business is about. Directly employing all the workers seems to defeat the efficiencies that are expected to be realised by going to a multi-activity contractor in the first place.

[Bing]

GMB says its policy is that profit-seeking contractors have no place in the Ministry of Defence

Who do they propose the RAF buy their aircraft from then, some sort of aviation co-operative?

[gijoe]

Let's be brutally honest here, ISS is a pretty horrible contractor.

Anyone been to the Home of Combat ISTAR Mess(es) recently?

Speak to some of the staff about how they are managed and it is very clear what ISS are all about. :ugh:

That said, the above quote is plain Corbyn-Thornberry idiocy.

[ShotOne]

If every window that needed cleaning and drain needed unblocking was done by directly employed MOD staff, we'd have to double the defence budget and still probably not afford any aircraft. If the GMB have an issue with profit-seeking may I respectfully suggest they sod off to North Korea or Venezuela
.

[TBM-Legend]

Simple answer, if you don't like the pay and conditions then leg it....find a better job!

[keith williams]

GMB says its policy is that profit-seeking contractors have no place in the Ministry of Defence.

Nothing new there.

UNITE say that there is no place for profit-seeking contractors in the NHS or public services.

The fact is that the unions see no place for profit-seeking contractors anywhere. And if Jeremy Corbet's lot get in there will be no profit making.

They will increase equality by making us all equally poor.

[Bladdered]

TBM - when was the last time you lived and worked in Lincolnshire? As for ISS, SODEXO and others are not much better, with the MOD contracts its a case of who bids the lowest gets the contract and they then adjust their costs (pay low, deliver the worst service they can get away with) to ensure they make their margins. The same applies to a well known outsourcer that I now work for - it knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing - people are important, if you do not pay them enough and take the fact that house prices are still below the UK average in that part of Lincs then in reality there are few options. Travel to find work or move - probably not, particularly as most would have TUPED backwards and forwards over many years and would not be able to afford either options or are service dependents who are fed up with being used.

[cargosales]

Simple answer, if you don't like the pay and conditions then leg it....find a better job!

Hmmmm .. Try telling that to someone who has no job, and when there are no better jobs to be had in the area, no matter how much that person wants to better their circumstances...

Very telling .. Years ago I visited the new operators of 'Frankfurt-Hahn'. When the USAF pulled out, the local economy completely collapsed .. The locals welcomed with open arms the re-opening of the place as a civilian airport a few years later, because it provides jobs, stability and a future...

Food for thought TBM?

CS

[megan]

I remember my military days as being fed well with good tucker by service personnel. Attended an aircrew graduation formal dinner in the mess recently and the standard of food could best be described as "slops". All civilian contractor now. Could see why those living in no longer eat in the mess, preferring to cook up a BBQ on the lawn outside their accommodation instead.

[PapaDolmio]

Although I enjoyed the comfort and privilege of living in the Mess during my service, one does wonder if it's time to move into the 21st century and scrap separate messes.
A single combined dining facility with separate areas for ORs, Seniors and Officers. The traditional messes becoming just social facilities?

[Pontius Navigator]

A few years ago the Lincolnshire edge presented problems for contractors retaining workers. You had Humberside, Kirton Lindsey, Scampton, Waddington, Digby, Cranwell and also Coningsby with contractors and different contract renewal dates. One, Serco, noted how appropriately skilled workers would flex up and down as new contracts offered higher pay.

[reds & greens]

Although I enjoyed the comfort and privilege of living in the Mess during my service, one does wonder if it's time to move into the 21st century and scrap separate messes.
A single combined dining facility with separate areas for ORs, Seniors and Officers. The traditional messes becoming just social facilities?

Worked fine in Goose Bay.
In fact I know the SNCOs and Lads used to swap rank tabs at times, just for a change of view, not a change of food.

[sharpend]

I remember my military days as being fed well with good tucker by service personnel. Attended an aircrew graduation formal dinner in the mess recently and the standard of food could best be described as "slops". All civilian contractor now. Could see why those living in no longer eat in the mess, preferring to cook up a BBQ on the lawn outside their accommodation instead.

Concur. Dining-in nights were cheap and compulsory. Great food, great service and not so great hangovers. Sadly the armed forces have lost what they cherished almost the most; Mess life. Without Mess life, chaps live out and it almost becomes a 9 - 5 job (apart from Ops). I have just attended a reunion of 1969 14 Sqn Wildenrath. What brilliant days they were; the Mess full of bachelors, great food, cheap booze, batting (yes proper batting) and comradeship. Those who attended the reunion all agreed that we did not fully appreciate what we had then.

[gr4techie]

Nothing new there.

UNITE say that there is no place for profit-seeking contractors in the NHS or public services.

The fact is that the unions see no place for profit-seeking contractors anywhere. And if Jeremy Corbet's lot get in there will be no profit making.

They will increase equality by making us all equally poor.

Maybe the union wants to stop our race to the bottom and wants to protect the amount of equipment available, working conditions and quality of service?
If Statbucks and Amazon paid ANY tax and we didn't have to spend £billions of taxpayers money on failed reckless bankers, maybe we all wouldn't be equally poor (except the RBS banker who gives himself a £3000000 bonus despite still making a loss year after year)

[Wyler]

I too loved Mess Life and the fellowship it provided. I basically handed over my entire wage at the end of the month. No regrets. You could not afford to live out, you were not expected to live out. The car would be some old banger to get you to the pub and possibly shared by several of you to cut the cost. It was not a job, it was not a career - it was a way of life.
We are now in a different world. The young Officers now own houses, fast cars and jet off to all points in their free time. The Mess is a place to stay in the week. Dining In Nights are sometimes seen as an encroachment of their free time. Why eat the Mess food when you can head into town? Many go home at the weekend and their wives have equally demanding careers so the 'parties on the patch' are fast becoming a thing of the past.
No point worrying about it. Time to adapt so I agree about having one combined dining facility with some separate areas for socialising. I would, however, not like to see the day arrive where uniforms are only worn at work with all travelling done in civvies. Hair nets for those who do not want to cut their hair. Messes only opened for specific functions. That would not be good but I have seen that in other European countries. That would be the start of a very slippery slope.
As for the contractors. A very good friend of mine has just handed in his notice after 4 years as an FTRS Families Officer. Sick of the dreadful service, lack of understanding and 'who gives a sh*t' attitude of the chosen contractor(s).
Sign of the times I'm afraid. 'Whole Force Concept' = 'Cheap as Chips'.

[Sandy Parts]

To be fair to the contractors in this particular case, a friend of mine :) recently ate a few meals in the WO & SNCOs Mess at Cranditz and the food was perfectly fine. Less choice than say 10 years ago but when you are catering for only about 20 (the most I saw eating at any meal), you'd expect that (well, I would). I realise the 'livers in' may have a different tale to tell (always thought that would be a good name for a scruff's bar - "The Livers Inn" :)

[keith williams]

gr4techie


Maybe the union wants to stop our race to the bottom and wants to protect the amount of equipment available, working conditions and quality of service?


I have no argument against the unions working to preserve/improve the things you have listed. But their hating of profit-making is an ideological one and it completely ignores the fact that wealth creation depends upon the profit motive. Without profitable companies there will be no money to spend on all the things which the unions want.


If Statbucks and Amazon paid ANY tax and we didn't have to spend £billions of taxpayers money on failed reckless bankers, maybe we all wouldn't be equally poor


Companies like Starbucks and Amazon pay a lot of tax, but (because of international tax laws) they do not pay enough corporation tax in the UK.


(except the RBS banker who gives himself a £3000000 bonus despite still making a loss year after year)


The vast majority of the RBS losses are the result of mistakes which were made (or if you prefer sins committed) Before the current CEO joined the company. He has actually managed to reduce losses and operating costs by many billions. Blaming him for the historical problems is rather like you joining a squadron and then having your annual performance assessment being based on mistakes that were made by other people before you joined. Would you really consider that fair or even sensible?

[tmmorris]

If there are no other jobs in the area then surely that is a very good reason to drive down wages. After all, where I live my employer is struggling to recruit domestic staff because local wages are high, and is having to offer more. It's called the market.

[gijoe]

Supply and demand - at some point they will cross on the price versus quantity graphs. That is the perfect pricing point.

...but some idiots (GMB, UNITE..) want no profit to be made which will encourage no contractor to bid. Profit is the oxygen of business (to state the obvious).

But if the wages are driven down in area where demand for jobs is high, then the contractor holds all of the aces, can thrash staff, deliver a poor service (such as at a Combat ISTAR base) and get away with it.

Heard from management - 'I don't work for the RAF, the RAF work for me.'

[Melchett01]

I know some might suggest Sharpend, Wyler et al are viewing things through rose tinted glasses. But as a home owner who has just started back in the Mess during the week, their 'rose tinted' view is pretty much spot on. I've seen both the full Service Messes and contractorised Messes, and the latter simply aren't on a patch with the former. The staff are decent folk doing their best, but the framework they exist in is of cost cutting a bean counting - metaphorically and literally.

The move to treat the Forces along business lines has had the invitable result of turning what was a way of life, a calling - the profession of arms - into a transactional job. And that has filtered through to Mess life which is sadly, gradually dying out. Depending on what the Future Accommodation Model comes up with, it really wouldn't surprise me to see the end of Messes as viable institutions.

[gijoe]

Ditto what Melchett said and there simply is no comparison. The slow growth of businessspeak in an organisation that doesn't make, only spends, cash has taken the eye off of the ball. Totally.

[Pontius Navigator]

There was a time that NAAFI also ran some officers messes and there was a similar difference between Service and commercial.

The Service run, civilian manned messes had a special ethos where the staff 'owned' the mess rather than employed by the contractor.

[Thaihawk]

If Comrades Corbyn and Thorberry are running the government this time next month, there are likely to be massive defence cuts to pay for their hard-left socialist agenda, and many of the bases in Lincolnshire are very likely be closed in a short period of time.

[megan]

one does wonder if it's time to move into the 21st century and scrap separate messesPapaDolmio, that's what has happened at my old base, everyone sups together.

[gijoe]

If Comrades Corbyn and Thorberry are running the government this time next month, there are likely to be massive defence cuts to pay for their hard-left socialist agenda, and many of the bases in Lincolnshire are very likely be closed in a short period of time.

Unlikely that they will get the reins.

[Sandy Parts]

or, as we are discussing catering, unlikely that they will get the runs?
(I know, anyone seen my coat?...)

[langleybaston]

or the Reigns

[gijoe]

or the Reigns

Err.......Que?