Spirit Airlines Chaos [Archive]

RoyHudd

9th May 2017, 18:33

Good for the pilots and cabin crew. As for the "outraged" passengers, well they cannot expect a proper service for the price of their tickets.But many of them are too brainwashed by promotional campaigns to understand that they may be being sold a lemon.

The revolution is almost here in UK and Europe.The abhorrence of airline employees towards their management is reaching fever pitch in a number of carriers. It is the line managers who carry the can, but the real blame lies with the bean-counters in senior airline management.

Airlines are no more managed by pilots than medical care is governed by doctors. Its all about margins, and the airlines have only themselves to blame for the stupid expectations of the self-loading freight.

And although this might sound somewhat retro, airlines should have pilots at the forefront. Simply because they understand what the business is all about. Safe and efficient air travel, not cheap and unpleasant air travel.

gearlever

9th May 2017, 18:36

Absolutely right. Perfect analyzed.

Airbubba

9th May 2017, 19:17

For all you Railway Labor Act sea lawyers, here is the lawsuit Spirit filed yesterday in District Court against ALPA and the Spirit MEC:

https://3rxg9qea18zhtl6s2u8jammft-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Spirit.pdf

There are predictable cites of social media postings of threats and listings of those who do not share the same vision as the MEC of the open time and JA ban.

Longtimer

9th May 2017, 19:27

Spirit wins restraining order against pilots union

09 May, 2017
| SOURCE: Flightglobal Pro
| BY: Ghim-Lay Yeo
| Washington DC

A US court has granted Spirit Airlines' request for a temporary restraining order against its pilots union, preventing the group from taking any action that will interfere with the airline's operations.

The order comes after Spirit cancelled more than 300 flights during the past week, which it blames on an intentional "work slowdown" organised by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), which is in contract negotiations with the carrier.

ALPA says Spirit's pilots will comply with the court order, saying: "Spirit pilots are committed to helping impacted passengers and the company restore normal operations."

The Spirit flight cancellations have led to frustration among passengers, some of whom ended up fighting with airline staff and police at the Fort Lauderdale airport.

Spirit says its pilots have intentionally turned down junior assignment and open time flying in an effort to disrupt the airline's operations.

The temporary restraining order granted by the US District Court for the Southern District of Florida prevents ALPA and its master executive council from calling for, instigating or encouraging any sort of action that could disrupt the airline's operations.

A hearing for a preliminary injunction against the union will take place on 15 May, says Spirit.

Under the US Railway Labour Act, airline employees must be legally authorised before they can carry out a strike. Spirit and its pilots have been in contract negotiations since 2015.

Story updated with ALPA comment

surely not

9th May 2017, 21:15

BlankBox

9th May 2017, 22:34

.

Or perhaps not.

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn...good on the Pilots. :ok:

rottenray

10th May 2017, 02:35

Good for the pilots and cabin crew. As for the "outraged" passengers, well they cannot expect a proper service for the price of their tickets.But many of them are too brainwashed by promotional campaigns to understand that they may be being sold a lemon.

Roy, long time no write! Glad to see you back.

You're completely right about ticket $$ vs pax. Loved flying in the 1970s and early 1980s.

Now, not so much. Rather take a bus -- bigger windows, more frequent stops, same crowd, don't have to get beeped because of "mah belt buckle, dammit!"

Shame, all that. You'd think that even the lowest common denominator would realize when they're boarding and riding a vehicle that likely cost more to produce than all their immediate relatives have ever earned.

Part of this is tongue in cheek, so don't think I'm being sarcastic.

Well, maybe I am, but it's sarcasm directed at the trailer trash that now invades air travel.

Put proper clothes on, don't get stinking drunk before you get on the damn thing, and once you're on, behave.

Is that so hard?

Hell, we used to do it all the time.

Cheers!

Porky Speedpig

10th May 2017, 06:48

Spot on - maybe you should script pre flight safety briefings!

Piltdown Man

10th May 2017, 08:54

From Spirit's 'Join our Team'

UNIQUE CULTURE

Headquartered in Miramar, Florida, we pride ourselves on being open-minded and creative, and you can see it in our culture. It’s relaxed, friendly and fun. We’re always looking for unique thinkers to challenge us and help us challenge the status quo. We call it "The Spirit Way".

I don't see anything about working for less because we charge less or maybe that's hidden in the small print elsewhere? And they appear to get upset when their employees challenge them. I must be missing something?

To any budding airline execs: Low cost is fine but please don't expect to get staff on the cheap. Cheap people = below average staff = rubbish service = poor performance = unhappy customers = bankruptcy.

Reverserbucket

10th May 2017, 09:07

Piltdown man
To any budding airline execs: Low cost is fine but please don't expect to get staff on the cheap. Cheap people = below average staff = rubbish service = poor performance = unhappy customers = bankruptcy.
Appreciate this is concerning Spirit, but other's have mentioned Europe for some reason. I believe that Cheap people = below average staff has been happening in flight deck recruitment in some EU operations for some time now. Rubbish service = poor performance has been prevalent in many EU carriers in other roles for considerably longer. Bankruptcy doesn't appear to be on the horizon for any of them however.

I flew with an ex-Spirit Skipper a few years ago - I was under the impression they didn't make great money for flying large aircraft?

Martin_123

10th May 2017, 10:15

Get ready Europe. This is the way things will look like in a few years for you.

:(

some airline or ATC industrial actions stranding passengers is not exactly new to Europe, we have a civilized way of dealing with it by paying compensations, providing food and hotels for the stranded

I've been stranded myself, I honestly don't know what needs to happen for Europeans to behave the way you see in the video..

Uplinker

10th May 2017, 10:31

Are we forgetting that most companies exist to make money?

Making profits usually means cutting operating costs and attracting lots of customers and selling lots of the services or things your company supplies.*

The company owner does not really care how unhappy or tired their employees are, they only care that the product is made as cheaply as possible and is sold to as many customers as possible - to make ever bigger profits to keep them (the owner) on their yacht with their huge pension and share options.

Your manager does not really care who you are, or if you are unhappy or tired, as long as you turn up to work and do your job properly.

The company does not really care how satisfied the customers are as long as enough customers keep buying the product.

Customers who are dim or stupid, or who don't know how to behave, do not by definition, realise they are being dim or stupid or are behaving badly. Many customers will choose a product or a flight or a company that is cheaper - even quite literally £1 or $1 cheaper - than another with no thought whatsoever about the quality of the product or of the company supplying it. This relentlessly drives down profits, so operating costs have to be squeezed ever harder until ultimately, the product starts to suffer. In extreme cases, the company can fail, but the owner doesn't really care - they own their yacht and have their huge pension to fall back on.

*Companies supplying to the rich and super-rich need to adopt a different approach, where high quality of service or product is needed to attract those customers, but these companies still make profits.

Food for thought?

Piltdown Man

10th May 2017, 11:51

...These pilots have put their quest for a new contract ahead of getting customers to their destinations and the safety of their fellow Spirit Team Members."

In other words, if Spirit's customers can not fly they will get so aggressive that they will threaten and attack and company employees. They sound like lovely customers to me. Does this also mean that Spirit's pilots have to consider the safety of ground staff when deciding to accept an aircraft with deficiencies or depart in marginal weather? It sounds like they need danger money to fly these passengers.

Regarding the race to the bottom, it will be the company with the best ability to raise cash when the economy it serves takes its next inevitable nose dive. And that will not necessarily be the most profitable airline at the moment. People who buy on price have no allegiance to their supplier. They go where they believe things are cheapest and chop and change at a whim. Employees and suppliers of these companies will do the same. Their loyalty lasts until the next pay check. I stand to be corrected, but we need an economic crisis to prove me right. I don't fancy one of those at the moment.

WindSheer

10th May 2017, 16:27

I wonder if these aircrew voiced their rights when they were begging the airline to take them on during the recruitment stage? I am sure they focussed more on behaviours, how they can attach themselves to the company strategy and how they could help keep the business sustainable!

Mac the Knife

10th May 2017, 18:14

Don't blame it on the companies. Blame it on the "shareholders". There is much less "buy and hold" these days, and your friendly local broker relies less on their own savvy than on supercomputers running complex mathematical algorithms buying and selling at the speed of light. Some positions are held only for microseconds, all in order to squeeze the last drops of liquidity out of the market and into their own pockets.

In order to remain attractive, companies have to cut costs to the bone and beyond - there is no room in the market now for companies who care about their employees or their working conditions. The job market is volatile and employees are essentially disposable tools - who cares?

The trade unions who once protected employees have effectively been neutered and play little real part in the game anymore.

It is capitalist heaven for the 0.1% and :mad: for all the rest of us. And I don't see an answer.

[ I believe that HST is sucking the blood out of the World economy - one solution would be that you have to hold a share for at least 24hrs before you can sell it again - I wonder how that would work out?]

:mad:

SLFandProud

10th May 2017, 18:25

Good for the pilots and cabin crew. As for the "outraged" passengers, well they cannot expect a proper service for the price of their tickets.But many of them are too brainwashed by promotional campaigns to understand that they may be being sold a lemon.

Nonsense. There's nothing special about airline pilots - you're no different to bus drivers. Your job is to get the vehicle from A to B safely.

It's not a passenger's job to judge when they book the ticket whether or not the Sky Gods will be sufficiently rewarded. Dispute your deal with your employer, drive the ******* bus, and the SLF will pay the going rate that results.

wingview

10th May 2017, 18:29

@ MAC
Hedge funds are the worst and attacking the foundation of capitalism. Shareholders used to be very loyal to a company, but when hedge funds arrive they just surrender. They already brought down the economy with the oil prices. They are the real danger and their arms are long, very long.

oldchina

10th May 2017, 18:43

TriStar_drvr

10th May 2017, 19:41

Nonsense. There's nothing special about airline pilots - you're no different to bus drivers. Your job is to get the vehicle from A to B safely.

While I agree that the job objection of bus drivers and airline pilots is the same, having been a bus driver and now airline pilot, I can assure you that the job description and the training and knowledge required for each job is quite different.

Herod

10th May 2017, 19:49

I know nothing about employment law in the US, but I gather negotiations are ongoing between the company and the union. In the UK, withholding your labour (striking) without a ballot causes you to be in breach of contract. Working to rule is another thing altogether, but I don't think that is what happened here. How much notice did the company get that the pilots were not going to operate? Sufficient to tell the passengers before they came to the terminal?.Before I'm flamed for not saying "good on the pilots", I was a BALPA member for many years, and still hold associate membership. The union is there to do your negotiating for you.

DirtyProp

10th May 2017, 20:18

Nonsense. There's nothing special about airline pilots - you're no different to bus drivers. Your job is to get the vehicle from A to B safely.

It's not a passenger's job to judge when they book the ticket whether or not the Sky Gods will be sufficiently rewarded. Dispute your deal with your employer, drive the ******* bus, and the SLF will pay the going rate that results.

And the Self Loading Cattle job is to get in, buckle up and behave or get their sorry a** kicked out.
Give no sympathy, get no sympathy. Next time I see a pax being dragged out of a plane for whatever reason, I'll assume it was his fault and he deserved it.

Heathrow Harry

10th May 2017, 20:52

That's fine - you are entitled to do what you like within the law to make your point s long as you are willing to accept the consequences

BUT - how many people affected will ever fly Spirit again? They don't sympathise with the pilots - all they know is "the airline" screwed up their travel

Eventually Spirit will suffer and may well go bust - that actually doesn't affect the passengers (or customers) and you can bet the managers have already covered themelves - who will suffer? The employees who will be out of a job....

AviatorDave

10th May 2017, 21:32

Nonsense. There's nothing special about airline pilots - you're no different to bus drivers. Your job is to get the vehicle from A to B safely.

It's not a passenger's job to judge when they book the ticket whether or not the Sky Gods will be sufficiently rewarded. Dispute your deal with your employer, drive the ******* bus, and the SLF will pay the going rate that results.

Sure. And you personally will certainly love to hear such lines from your customers and happily and selflessly yield to any crap conditions your employers will throw at you, because you feel the obligation to fill their pockets, not your own.
Always easy talk if you aren't affected yourself, isn't it?

Lack of sympathy like this makes it easy for corporations to pull their :mad: on employees.

KRviator

10th May 2017, 22:14

They aren't really on strike though are they? Reading between the lines in the statement of claim seems to indicate the airline is dependant on crews working Overtime to fulfil their schedule, and it is simply crews refusing this OT that is causing the majority of the issues.

Pilots - like any employee - have aright to feel safe both at and away from work, and if there is threatening behaviour towards any pilots accepting any OT lines, then no one can blame the rest of the pilot group from refusing said duties.

When your business model is dependant on employees working overtime to maintain the schedule, best you keep said employees happy, lest they decide their RDO's & family time is more important than a few hours at double-time!

J.O.

10th May 2017, 22:35

g-code

11th May 2017, 01:24

Whats being missed here is that Spirit is short on pilots. 17% of their covered schedule is overtime picked up on days off. The last strike in the US was at Spirit in 2010, and their management has a reputation for playing hardball.

The pilots don't have to taxi slowly or call in sick, all they have to do is not pick up overtime and Spirit starts taking cancellations. The fact that they publically blamed the pilot group and filed a TRO may be a tactical victory, but I can guarantee its a strategic blunder.

galaxy flyer

11th May 2017, 01:53

The worst contract change in the last 25 years was removing the monthly cap on credit hours. Now, greedy pilots taking premium pay assignments becomes a baseline crewing plan. Correct, J.O., by posting in the internet and bullying Spirit pilots not to take overtime assignments the pilots have engaged in "self help" illegally. They can refuse them, but when it becomes obviously out of prior practices, easily tested by the record, its illegal.

WhatsaLizad?

11th May 2017, 02:10

Without reading all the fine print, I assume that the injunction was granted because in the eyes of US labor law, when the union took a collective action to refuse duty that they as a group have routinely done, it is in fact a form of strike action. If accepting overtime and junior assignments is something they have traditionally accepted, they need a strike mandate (a.k.a. a vote) prior to changing that.

Let me translate it for you since you apparently missed it.

A company pisses off it's employees.

The employees act differently today than they did in happier times previously. They decline non-mandatory overtime and find more rewarding endeavors for their free time. Work or play? They chose play.

Most companies outside the US airline business would realize that we screwed up and the employees must be rewarded enough to make the economic choice to come to work instead of play. Capitalism at it's finest.

Not so fast in the land of the free. The scumbag airlines have adopted the tactic that instead of a commitment of respect for the negotiating process in granting new compensation agreements to keep employees happy, they have decided to use the strong arm of the law to force participation levels equal to times when the employees felt more valued. This is Stalin :mad:.

My ancestors went to war with a superpower for a less overreach of power. The airlines are using the courts to manage their business shortcomings.

framer

11th May 2017, 08:09

After a certain amount of time ( different for each individual) there comes a point where enough is enough. When the extra cash for doing overtime doesn't compensate for the extra workload that the wife picks up at home, for not seeing the kids as much as you think they need, for being tired and grumpy on your days off as you recover from the circadian disrhythmia. When that time comes for enough workers, and they are thinking of leaving anyway because it's not the lifestyle they want to maintain into their twilight years, this is what happens. The company can no longer rely on the nicer side of human nature to carry their product through and eventually will have to yield......one way or another.
Good work Spirit pilots. This is a global issue and you won't be alone for very long.

RoyHudd

11th May 2017, 10:27

Well said, framer. You describe my circumstances well. I cannot and will not do overtime when the company wants it, any more than any other type of employee would. Overtime should be a choice, simply that.

(And the videos of wailing and aggressive passengers makes me wonder just who they think they are.....the same often happens when flights are delayed/cancelled for technical reasons, which usually implies safety. That sort of passenger behaviour is pathetic, sometimes beneath contempt)

RoyHudd

11th May 2017, 10:32

RoyHudd:

"airlines should have pilots at the forefront. Simply because they understand what the business is all about"

Problem is that most pilots have no idea of airline economics beyond costs and 'bean counting'.

Ask any one of them how to reduce costs (ok) whilst at the same time maximising revenue and you'll be met with a blank stare.

It surely ain't cost per seat ? Revenue management, what's that ?

Old China, please don't underestimate pilots' knowledge and intelligence. Many of us understand much about yield management. After all, it was first so-termed by Robert Crandall, that rather tough CEO and Chairman of American Airlines.

We get this stuff drummed into us at corporate propaganda meetings, (workshops, pilot development courses, etc), and it is not beyond our wit to check and challenge the lame excuses for our ever-worsening T & C's. Sadly some unions are simply too weak to stand up to airline management for their members.. And as an individual, objecting to management practices can lead to unpleasant circumstances with respect to job security. I won't explain here, but those of us in the profession should know what I mean.

Piltdown Man

11th May 2017, 11:02

Spirit Airlines is an example of where this industry is heading. Cheap seats for the feral masses provided by compliant, overworked, underpaid employees. Also, like every other pilot I know, I'll not recommended that children work in the industry. As for flying aftet I retire, well you can stick that where the sun doesn't shine. I'd now prefer to walk than fly. The genius aviation entrepreneurs have truly :mad: in the flying pond.

framer

11th May 2017, 11:15

Cheap seats for the feral masses provided by compliant, overworked, underpaid employees.
I don't know how long they'll remain compliant for PM.
There is a looming shortage of pilots with suitable experience to command passenger jets, and most pilots know this and many are nearing the end of their tether.

pax britanica

11th May 2017, 13:10

The feral masses is a bit unkind , most western countries today ahve created a feral mass problem though poor state education (Politicans kids go to private school and don't care) After school comes employment and for those it is zero hours contracts minimum wage taco bell stuff, certainly not any form of career. So they get treated like s--t every day and when their saved for trip to see Mom and Pop/Mickey Mouse/Bf or Gf they are pissed off. Don't blame them completely and equally don't blame the pilots completely.
The lawmakers and senior management-well they are a different story. on a different planet and it all looks ok to them

Timmy Tomkins

11th May 2017, 13:49

I'm sure that the pilots are not leaving the ticket desk and check-in staff to front up for the disruption. Being such fine folks I'm sure they will be on the front line explaining to these angry and violent passengers the merits of their case.

Or perhaps not.
That's the job of management unless they are like a certain ex BA manager who ran and hid and left the front line staff to take the pain

b1lanc

11th May 2017, 14:37

Also, like every other pilot I know, I'll not recommended that children work in the industry. .

Curious. In high school I had to interview a person in my future field of choice. The one person who talked me out of my dream job of becoming a commercial airline pilot was....a Pan Am 707 captain who bluntly stated it was like driving a bus and the corporate environment stunk. And, this was in the 60's.

How bad is it? When I see a 4-striper for one of the big three in the US carrying the same Walmart lunch bag that I bring to work, must be pretty bad.

MichaelKPIT

11th May 2017, 15:00

In 2000 I was working as Cabin Crew for USAirways. We'd just done an overnight PIT/FRA and it was a long crew bus ride to the layover hotel. There was this discussion where we went round every crew member and asked if we weren't doing the job we were currently doing, what would we do instead.

There were three pilots obviously - Captain, First Officer and IRO. I remember thinking it was going to get interesting when it got to them, because I had always regarded Airline Pilot as my dream job - let's see what they say! To a man, every one of them said they wouldn't change a thing - they'd be airline pilots. That was pre 9/11 of course.

b1lanc

11th May 2017, 15:55

(And the videos of wailing and aggressive passengers makes me wonder just who they think they are.....the same often happens when flights are delayed/cancelled for technical reasons, which usually implies safety. That sort of passenger behaviour is pathetic, sometimes beneath contempt)

Regarding your last paragraph, I recall the same type of pax behaviour when People Express began in Newark in the 80's. It was a zoo. Well earned nicknames of People Distress and Air Bulgaria. Poor customer service and pax fighting for the cheapest seats and very intolerant of any disruption.

So question for the audience. Pax going ballistic over weather or technical cancellations is nothing new. Mass cancellations due to weather happen somewhat regularly and we can now add to that computer outages. Would same reaction have occurred with one of the big three?

Long time ago, but I wound up stuck in LA during the great airplane strike of 1966 severely overstaying my welcome with my Aunt. The only airline flying coast to coast where machinists didn't strike was AA. They were sold out for a year and a half into the future as were the railways. Somehow my Aunt got me a ticket (AA was adding 707s as fast as Boeing could deliver them - mine didn't even have the interior fitted out and there was a shortage of food carts, utensils, plates, etc). I don't recall civil disobedience at the airport and there were a great many frustrated people trying to get home.

J.O.

11th May 2017, 17:15

Let me translate it for you since you apparently missed it.

A company pisses off it's employees.

The employees act differently today than they did in happier times previously. They decline non-mandatory overtime and find more rewarding endeavors for their free time. Work or play? They chose play.

Most companies outside the US airline business would realize that we screwed up and the employees must be rewarded enough to make the economic choice to come to work instead of play. Capitalism at it's finest.

Not so fast in the land of the free. The scumbag airlines have adopted the tactic that instead of a commitment of respect for the negotiating process in granting new compensation agreements to keep employees happy, they have decided to use the strong arm of the law to force participation levels equal to times when the employees felt more valued. This is Stalin :mad:.

My ancestors went to war with a superpower for a less overreach of power. The airlines are using the courts to manage their business shortcomings.

Your anger is misplaced. I don't recall saying I was celebrating the fate of Spirit's pilots attempt to push forward negotiations. I was only trying to raise the reasoning for the injunction based on the rules around strike action. I get that they'd rather not take formal strike action, their problem is in what is interpreted as a violation of the labour laws.

Airbubba

11th May 2017, 18:04

I was only trying to raise the reasoning for the injunction based on the rules around strike action. I get that they'd rather not take formal strike action, their problem is in what is interpreted as strike action under the labour laws.

Under the Railway Labor Act the parties are supposed to maintain the status quo during contract negotiations. The alleged work slowdown is, like a strike, a type of 'job action' but is legally different from a strike. But it does represent a violation of the status quo requirement if the judge acknowledges the open time and JA ban as an illegal work slowdown. Or, something like that. Around contract time there will be no shortage of geniuses available online to explain this stuff to a layman like me. ;)

From the suit filed in District Court by Spirit:

The pilots are engaged in this illegal slowdown in order to bring pressure on Spirit during current negotiations for an amended collective bargaining agreement pursuant to Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act (“RLA”), 45 U.S.C. §151 et seq.

This slowdown is in direct violation of the RLA, which prohibits work slowdowns and strikes during collective bargaining negotiations, as expressly recognized by a series of court decisions, including by this Circuit in Delta Air Lines v. Air Line Pilots Association, International, 238 F.3d 1300 (11th Cir. 2001). Spirit has asked ALPA to fulfill its legal obligation under the RLA to take all necessary steps to end this illegal slowdown, but the union has failed effectively to do so.

Spirit therefore asks this Court to issue a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction compelling an immediate end to this illegal work slowdown.

bafanguy

12th May 2017, 13:14

Things like this aren't anything new. It'd be very foolish (and surprising) for a union to actively encourage its members to act in violation of the Railway Labor Act; they can't force individual members to make choices regarding voluntary flying. Defining changes in the "status quo" gets pretty subjective.

With the internet and various av forums, pilots can "chat" among themselves, exchange opinions and make individual, personal decisions.

This is Delta's go at it in 2000:

Delta Seeks Court Order Forcing Pilot Overtime - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/delta-seeks-court-order-forcing-pilot-overtime/story?id=118606)

Airbubba

12th May 2017, 18:25

With the internet and various av forums, pilots can "chat" among themselves, exchange opinions and make individual, personal decisions.

This is Delta's go at it in 2000:

Perhaps there is a lesson in that DALPA open time ban.

From PPRuNe's sister forum APC:

While I personally agree with you, legal precedence is not so black and white. Delta sued the Union/Pilot group around 2000 when we stopped picking up open time. The company said it was an illegal change to the status quo under the RLA.

If I remember correctly the Pilots and DALPA initially won in court, but the the company appealed the case and won on appeal. So I don't think its a slam dunk for either the company or the Pilots but the standing precedent may be negative for Pilots.

And be warned that 49 individual Pilots were named as defendants partly because they left a paper/electronic trail. Its not fun to answer your door, be served, and find yourself on the wrong end of a lawsuit with your employer.

I personally think that if Pilots choose not to fly overtime that is their own choice but when it changes "noticeably and substantially" you are in Status-quo land.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2356788-post66.html

First off I agree with you 100% about forcing you to work, and I argued the same things with my union reps at DAL. They told me what I am now telling you. The issue is not what you as an individual do, but what the group collectively does. This is fairly easy for the company to prove even without the paper/electronic trail that has already been promulgated.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2356853-post71.html

Former FedEx Captain Claude Barnhart has some relevant experience with what you can legally say on union forums from two decades ago. His fiery rhetoric got him fired (I sent some money to help with his legal defense) and he never got his job back.

bafanguy

12th May 2017, 19:09

Yep, it's a minefield...in a quagmire. ;-))

Airbubba

14th May 2017, 01:09

Looks like the open time and JA ban is over for now. Unless perhaps there are some 'vigilantes' willing to risk crossing a federal judge, we'll see. DALPA and APA have some experience in this area as I recall.

Spirit, pilots agree to extend court order barring slowdown as disruptions persist

May 11, 2017

Arlene Satchell
Sun Sentinel

As flight disruptions continued to hamper Spirit Airlines on Thursday, the company and its pilots union announced an agreement to indefinitely extend a court order barring a slowdown by members of its cockpit crews.

The agreement dictates that the pilots must restore “the status quo” while Spirit and the Air Line Pilots Association International continue federally mediated contract negotiations.

The restraining order will remain in effect until a collective bargaining agreement is signed and ratified or, if applicable, the parties are released from mediation by the National Mediation Board, Spirit said.

The unionized pilots are not on strike.

Since the initial order was granted Monday by a federal court in Fort Lauderdale, ALPA has petitioned the Spirit pilots to resume picking up open flying time, which is basically over time above their already scheduled flights.

“On behalf of our customers and fellow Spirit team members, we really appreciate the effort of our pilots who are taking on open flying to restore the operation,” said John Bendoraitis, Spirit’s chief operating officer.

On Monday, the low-cost carrier filed a lawsuit against the union and selected representatives alleging a week long pilots’ work slowdown had caused approximately 300 flight cancellations and displaced more than 20,000 customers.

The Miramar-based carrier said the slowdown resulted in about $8.5 million in lost revenue and caused “irreparable harm to its goodwill.”

Spirit alleged the pilots’ action was an attempt to influence current labor negotiations, and said it “reluctantly filed this suit to protect” its customers and operations.

On Tuesday, in communications to Spirit’s nearly 1,600 pilots, the union urged them to adhere to the court order and work to return the airline’s operations to normal.

“You must resume your normal working schedule and practices: pick up open time flying and accept junior assignment flying,” the ALPA notice said. “So that we are clear: you must immediately cease and desist from any concerted refusal to conduct pilot operations in the normal manner, including regarding picking up open time, accepting junior assignment flying and answering calls from crew scheduling, and to cease and desist from any and all other refusals to perform normal pilot operations.”

Spirit, pilots agree to extend court order barring slowdown as disruptions persist - Sun Sentinel (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-spirit-flight-issues-saga-20170511-story.html)