La Qantas 787 to Paris

[Troo believer]

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-brings-forward-boeing-787-deliveries
About bloody time.

[CurtainTwitcher]

Qantas brings forward Boeing 787 deliveries

by David Flynn | May 8, 2017

Qantas has brought forward the delivery of its second tranche of Boeing 787s, with all four of the Dreamliners now taking wing in the second half of 2018 to allow the launch of a second non-stop route into Europe – with Paris tipped as the front-runner.

The original timetable saw the first four red-tailed Boeing 787s flying in from late 2017 to mid-2018, with four more over the next 12 months through to mid-2019.

Qantas' revised schedule will now see the eight-strong fledging Boeing 787 fleet all in place before the end of 2018.

Qantas International CEO Gareth Evans outlined the airline's tighter timetable during the annual Qantas Investor Day 2017 held last Friday, May 5.

"We will have four aircraft by March 2018, when Perth-London starts... and then a little gap, and the remaining four aircraft come in between July and November 2018," Evans said.

"We've actually bought the last one forward by two or three months so we can get the aircraft in as fast as possible."

https://media.ausbt.com.au/862,473-590f19107ee44b5295fa3a5fdd799acd-qantas-boeing-787-delivery-schedule.jpg
Evans reiterated that two Boeing 747s would be retired once the first four Dreamliners were in place, with three more jumbo jets by the end of 2018, "so five old 747s will exit the fleet."

Dreamliner delivery schedule

A tentative schedule sighted by Australian Business Traveller indicates Qantas will pick up the keys to it debutante Dreamliner on October 12, 2017.

Two more red-tailed Dreamliners will follow at either end of December 2017 and another on February 22, 2018.

Those four will all be used to fly a unique London-Perth-Melbourne-Los Angeles sweep designed to maximise the number of hours of flying time which Qantas wrings from the fuel-efficient Boeing 787.

"It's a very efficient pattern which is unreplicable by our competitors, because the hub carriers have to fly through their hubs," Evans explains. "So it's unique competitive advantage for us to build from this new Perth hub."

From Paris, France to Paris, Texas?

The second four Boeing 787s would replicate this pattern, with Paris tipped as the European destination and a possible eastbound leg from Brisbane to Dallas or Los Angeles – resulting in a Paris-Perth-Brisbane-USA corridor for the Dreamliners.

The Paris service would build upon Perth's new role as an Aussie hub for direct flights to Europe.

Rome, Berlin and Frankfurt have also been cited by Qantas for future non-stop services – dependent on Qantas calling in more of its options and purchase rights for as many as 45 additional Dreamliners.

"I'd like to order all of them if I can make a good return out of them," Qantas CEO Alan Joyce previously told Australian Business Traveller.

"We have to demonstrate that we can make money out of the eight we have – but once we’ve done that, we’ll be comfortable in ordering more."

Boosting the Boeing 787 fleet

Qantas has the option to buy 15 more Dreamliners with guaranteed delivery slots through to 2020, while an additional 30 Boeing 787s are pencilled in as 'purchase rights' – without a fixed delivery timeframe – to 2025.

The airline has locked in a very low purchase price for the Boeing 787s stemming from its initial 2005 order rather than the current $US265 million (A$345m) list price – although airlines rarely ever pay the sticker prices, and discounts can be as deep as 40%.

Qantas' long-term plan is for the Boeing 787 to replace not only the ageing and fuel-thirsty Boeing 747 jumbo jets but also its international and domestic Airbus A330 fleet.

This would see the Dreamliners flying Australia's east-west transcontinental routes in addition to the bulk of international services but for the flagship Airbus A380s and either the Boeing 777X or Airbus A350, both of which Qantas is eyeing for the mid-2020s.
From your link (https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-brings-forward-boeing-787-deliveries)

Spelling mistakes maintained from the original... can't anyone be bothered to even spell check?

[Capn Bloggs]

unreplicable
Lemme think about that one, CT!

[cattletruck]

Ooh-lah-lah. Can't wait to spend 16 hours (or however long it takes) in a spam can sitting next to someone who stinks of garlic.

Mon Dieu!

[AerialPerspective]

Actually I was just thinking about this the other day in the light of a number of posts about whether Qantas is getting benefit from the EK Alliance, etc.
Provided our government(s) (current and future) don't bend over for the rest of the world and fail to negotiate anything and give away traffic rights, this could work extremely well for Qantas and maybe finally nail the age-old problem of our geographic location. I'm talking all European flights passing through Perth and maybe one or two Asian cities but the bulk going direct. Where Europe is concerned, the only competitors likely would be the Euro airlines who seem to have little interest in Australia. The ME carriers would not be able to compete with direct services both because they must go through their hubs and also because they have no rights to fly direct from an Australian city to one in Europe direct (would need to check the agreements for that though).
Personally, I have invariably done the trip in one hit anyway. I find stopping en-route when doing this whether SIN or BKK or HKG to be a PITA because I just want to get there... so given the choice of nearly 2 hours on the ground in the middle, getting off, getting back on again I would always choose to go via PER and stay for a day and visit relatives and then fly direct for 19 hours that go through a hub.
Glad to see that QF is accelerating their deliveries - a Pilot friend said some time back when I said "only 8" that "don't worry, there will be many more once those have arrived."
I'd be betting on the 777 rather than the A350. Don't see the point in buying A350s when they essentially do the same job as the 787-9... if that was the case, better to order 787-10 for commonality or 777 for it's wider cabin.

[Gamechanger]

Well that explains the little Fete I noticed at the campus recently. The return to Paris.
People did seem more jubilant than usual in between drinking ristrettos and snacking on Sushi. Jane from HR didn't seem as exited as she should have, but she was a little tired after only obtaining seat 5E at the very back of First Class on her staff travel trip home from Tuscany. Oh Mon Dieu!
What an astonishing change from the end of line carrier narrative.
The globe has now been morphed with genius new insights like the movie interstellar and Qantas is no longer an end of the line carrier.
It now has a "connectivity advantage" matched by no other Airline by continuing to pass "through" cities with aircraft.
Who would of thought it possible to fly CDG to PER then continue onto BNE then wait for it, onto America. And back again!
The pure genius of making Australia the centre of the world again!
Can we please grant the bonus payments early this FY?
Félicitations

[AerialPerspective]

Well that explains the little Fete I noticed at the campus recently. The return to Paris.
People did seem more jubilant than usual in between drinking ristrettos and snacking on Sushi. Jane from HR didn't seem as exited as she should have, but she was a little tired after only obtaining seat 5E at the very back of First Class on her staff travel trip home from Tuscany. Oh Mon Dieu!
What an astonishing change from the end of line carrier narrative.
The globe has now been morphed with genius new insights like the movie interstellar and Qantas is no longer an end of the line carrier.
It now has a "connectivity advantage" matched by no other Airline by continuing to pass "through" cities with aircraft.
Who would of thought it possible to fly CDG to PER then continue onto BNE then wait for it, onto America. And back again!
The pure genius of making Australia the centre of the world again!
Can we please grant the bonus payments early this FY?
Félicitations
Seriously though, I think the CDG-PER-BNE-LAX bit is more about aircraft utilization than connectivity.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Seems a bit odd to point out that hub carriers have to fly through their hubs, then bang on about Qantas flying everywhere through their new Perth hub.

[Pedant]would it not be "fledgling Boeing fleet"? [Pedant off]

[knobbycobby]

Agree.

So if Emirates run a 777 or A380 from LHR-DXB-SYD-CHC-SYD-DXB-LHR then that isn't efficient use of aircraft?
Seems to me Qantas are not doing anything particularly special. They just are not giving up for a change which is refreshing to see after years of "end of the line" defeatist talk. Demonstrates that this was rubbish if you utilised the aircraft properly. I think it was a line to justify not spending any money on QF and instead on other orange parts of the group.
I saw that Business Seats on the 787 from PER-LHR had sold out at over $9000, premium at $4550 and economy at $2230. With the highest percentage of premium seats in the Qantas fleet by 30% it will make mega dollars for Qantas.
Especially when you look at the dismal yields on Jetstar's 787s.

[The Green Goblin]

They may as well now go LAX-LHR. Then they can finely boast what EK have been craving.

[Tuck Mach]

Only 8 aircraft going to LAX, CDG, LHR....What lovely thought bubbles but is just spin. There are not sufficient hulls.


Especially when you look at the dismal yields on Jetstar's 787s.

Good luck trying to disaggregate JQ International. Despite operating more aircraft than the parent, and Qantas having a domestic and operating segment, management refuse to break up the JQ segments, ever wonder why?

To justify and free up capital, Joyce and the board sacrificed the international business, for capital to run his fanciful JQ to the world strategy. Not content with failure, he signed up for an 'alliance' with EK that to many provides not a tangible dollar of return.

Now with oil prices saving the bacon, and tacit admission he failed, they float ideas of route utopia to the gullible..

[morno]

Do you ever have anything good to say Tuck?

The past is the past. You've got an airline making money now. Who really gives two ****s about Jetstar and Joyce anymore.

[Beer Baron]

Only 8 aircraft going to LAX, CDG, LHR....What lovely thought bubbles but is just spin. There are not sufficient hulls.

Well given they are going to be flying LHR-PER-MEL-LAX and return daily with 4 hulls. Why could they not also fly to CDG with 8???

Seems like another Europe-PER-Aus East Coast-USA daily cycle would be an excellent use of 8 aircraft.

[maggot]

Do you ever have anything good to say Tuck?

The past is the past. You've got an airline making money now. Who really gives two ****s about Jetstar and Joyce anymore.

...the myriad of 15-20 year FOs perhaps

[keepitrealok]

I understand and get what you mean Maggot. But the thing is - that's life. Nothing is written in stone, sh1t happens and things change. Companies change direction - for right and wrong reasons - and we just have to adapt.

15-20 year FO? Yep, very annoying considering they would all be Captains if the growth that was given to Jetstar had been given to QF.

But being a 15-20 year FO in QF? Not many better places (if any) to be so 'unlucky' ;) I wonder if we polled every ex-Ansett FO and told them they have a choice - be stuck as an FO for 15-20 years and Ansett survives, or become a Captain and then the airline will go bust - what they'd take?

I'm with morno- I'd hate to live life with the pessimistic negativity that Tuck Mach displays on here.

:ok:

[rjtjrt]

Well given they are going to be flying LHR-PER-MEL-LAX and return daily with 4 hulls. Why could they not also fly to CDG with 8???

Seems like another Europe-PER-Aus East Coast-USA daily cycle would be an excellent use of 8 aircraft.

QANTAS say they will have retired 5 of their 747's by the time the last of the 8 new 787's are delivered, so net will be 3 more aircraft for new routes.

[AerialPerspective]

They may as well now go LAX-LHR. Then they can finely boast what EK have been craving.
They've been there, done that with 707s, albeit that was from JFK though to LHR.

[Tuck Mach]

QANTAS say they will have retired 5 of their 747's by the time the last of the 8 new 787's are delivered, so net will be 3 more aircraft for new routes. the myriad of 15-20 year FOs perhaps I always try to argue fact not personality. I am certainly no pessimist. I watched a career disappear like many of my former colleagues, and listened to managers and executives speak from both sides of their mouth.
I don't see how an additional three aircraft and a bit of spin about 'maybe ports' is cause for boundless optimism. Call me wrong when they announce fifty additional aircraft. I have another profession and despite having three years to do it, with countless ASX announcements, AGM and HY updates, Qantas management have not committed to anything other than 8. Shall we deal in facts? This is your same management who locked you out on the basis the international business was 'terminal' That QF business right now operates exactly the same fleet mix and pay scales as its terminal decline....Do you ever wonder how?

I hope they get new routes and aircraft, but just perhaps think critically. They make an art form of manipulation and that includes their staff.

They haven't announced CDG, they said they will look at it. In legal parlance, that is hardly an enforceable undertaking...

[GoldCoastTobacconist]

QF now hold daily rights into Paris whereas in the past limited.

[Beer Baron]

QANTAS say they will have retired 5 of their 747's by the time the last of the 8 new 787's are delivered, so net will be 3 more aircraft for new routes.
789 flying MEL-LAX frees up 2 jumbos, BNE/SYD-LAX frees up 2 more. Then the 2 380's relieved of their LHR flying can pick up jumbo flying to Asia meaning a 5th go.

Still don't see how 8 hulls are not enough.

For pilots, replacing 747's with 787's at a rate of 5 to 8 is great news for us. 60% more crew required.

[Ken Borough]

A small point Mr. Perspective: LHR via JFK operated through SFO with a transit in SFO of about four hours if memory serves me correctly. I may be wrong as it was all so long ago! :ok:

[AerialPerspective]

A small point Mr. Perspective: LHR via JFK operated through SFO with a transit in SFO of about four hours if memory serves me correctly. I may be wrong as it was all so long ago! :ok:
Point taken Mr Borough, it was a long time ago. I should have known it went through SFO as QF didn't fly to LAX until the very late 70s or early 80s from memory.
Those were the days, when they also went to LHR via the Fiesta route... a true 'round-the-world' airline and either first to do so or before many others...
Didn't that start when the code was still 'EM' and not 'QF'???

[B772]

Name change from Qantas Empire Airways to Qantas Airways was in August 1967.

[Ken Borough]

Didn't that start when the code was still 'EM' and not 'QF'???

Yep. My RAM suggests that QF started LAX operations in the early 1980s. The RTW started with the Super Connies in I think 1958 from Essendon. Somewhere in my boxes of history I have philatelic covers that travelled in each direction bearing blue 2/- stamp with the Connie on it.


Name change from Qantas Empire Airways to Qantas Airways was in August 1967

Correct. I think too that Qf was adopted in lieu of EM at the same time.


Sorry for the thread drift!!

[V-Jet]

Hoping for the best but experiencing the worst is par for the course as Qf staff.

Don't forget the reason Qf stopped flying to SFO in the '90's was Jimmy, fresh from his extensive international airline career of thinking SYD-PER was ultra long haul decided to SELL the FREEHOLD gates that Qf OWNED at SFO (51/52?). Pilot management was apoplectic.... Word has it Jimmy wanted back in 6 months - SFO simply said 'sorry Qf, back to the end of the line for you now (plus rent and tax of course).'

I sincerely hope there are 30+ 78's in very short order, I hope wee man can recover from his pie assault and manage to leapfrog the Arabs (who clearly well and truly pied the guy in their negotiations) and extract some victory from the jaws of defeat, but that remains to be seen. Surrounding yourself with yes men for 10+ years has (as far as I know) in the history of the entire world never been a recipe* for success.

* Meringue or otherwise.

[Ken Borough]

Jimmy, fresh from his extensive international airline career of thinking SYD-PER was ultra long haul

Beautifully put! Darwin was also long haul but for mine the cherry on top of the cake was one of Jimmy's hand picked blow-ins (a direct report) not knowing what or where was Harare! NFI. They really were genii.