Question about EASA type ratings

[LostInTrans]

I'm just checking that I understand the EASA regulations correctly.

If I hold a multi-engine type rating but have never held a single-engine type rating, my first single-engine type rating would be 5 hours plus test (initial issue, SET(H) under 3175 kg MTOM).

Which means that moving from AS355 to AS350 is 5 hours plus test, whereas moving from AS355 to A109 is only 3 hours plus test (additional type, MET(H) to MET(H)).

It seems strange, so I just wanted to check I was reading the regs correctly :confused:

[hueyracer]

Correct-its 3 hours MET Single Pilot to MET Single Pilot...

Its 5 hours for Multi Pilot to Multi Pilot...plus 2 hours for an IR.


And the single engine one:
They assume you will spend some time for autorotation (not required on multi engines)...

[haihio]

I have an Easa license with as350 type rating expired in January 2015,
I'm flying in a different part of the world but still on an icao license but on different helicopters (bell 206 and as355).
The question is what do I have to do to renew my as350 on the easa license ?

Thanks for the input

[hueyracer]

Go to an ATO-they will check your logbook and contact your EASA CAA to get approval for your renewal.

After 3 years, it will be a complete new rating...

Until then you might get away with one hour training plus one hour checkride.

[feathering tickles]

Haihio, if the UK would suit you I suggest you make contact at [email protected]

I'm sure they'd be delighted to renew your type-rating and they have a B3+ and TRE available 24/7.

[rotarywise]

After 3 years, it will be a complete new rating...No, it won't, it will be training as determined by the Head of Training of an ATO to reach the standard required to pass a proficiency check.

[hueyracer]

Unfortunately you are wrong.

See AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1) Validity and renewal of class and type ratings 3)b)iv.

(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo the training
required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case of helicopter, the training
required for the ‘additional type issue’, according to other valid ratings held.

[Mustapha Cuppa]

For the UK, rotarywise is correct.

[hueyracer]

The UK CAA also have to follow Part FCL....if they grant exemptions on a case by case basis-good for you....until another pilot takes them to court for not applying EASA rules..

[Mustapha Cuppa]

Have you never heard of an Alternative Means of Compliance?

[hueyracer]

If you had taken a look at the reference i posted you would have realized that that is where the quote is from...

[Mustapha Cuppa]

No

You have quoted the Acceptable Means of Compliance.

I am referring to the Alternative Means of Compliance.

[hueyracer]

My bad..i saw "Alternative Means..", but actually read "AMC" instead of "AltMOC".

You are referring to the derogation the UK CAA issued....this is correct-it is in the hands of the ATOs..but they have made it clear that the minimums as stated in Part FCL should be a reference when determining the required training.....

[Mustapha Cuppa]

Have you actually read the AltMoC?

[hueyracer]

This is what the UK CAA says:

Class and Type Ratings
Where a class or type rating has expired, and the applicant is seeking to renew the rating,
FCL.740 states that the applicant shall take refresher training at an ATO, when necessary to
reach the level of proficiency to operate the relevant class or type of aircraft safely; and pass a
proficiency check. This does not imply that refresher training is always required when a class
or type rating has expired. The amount and nature of the refresher training depends upon a
number of factors including the applicant’s experience, the complexity of the aircraft and the
time elapsed since the rating expired. For example, an experienced and competent pilot who
has been in fairly regular flying practice but due to an oversight failed to revalidate the rating
within its validity period, should be capable of undertaking a proficiency check to renew the
rating without requiring refresher training. Alternatively, an inexperienced pilot who has not
operated the type or variant for several months or more should expect to undertake a number
of training sessions. If the type or variant is particularly complex or presents some challenging
handling characteristics, or has not been operated for three years or more, the refresher
training might reflect the training provided for initial issue of the rating. Further guidance is in
AMC 1 FCL.740(b)(1) and reproduced in this document at Appendix 4.

Not so sure whats unclear here?
Enlighten us-happy to learn something new...

[Mustapha Cuppa]

Can you provide a link to your AltMoC quotation from the CAA?

[hueyracer]

I will check...

On my phone now..so a bit tricky...

But i found it on publicapps.caa.co.uk

[haihio]

Thanks for your information everyone. As usual with Easa everything is very complicated.

[QTG]

Hueyracer - AMC FCL.740 actually says:

"The amount of refresher training needed should be determined on a case-by-case basis by the ATO".

The elapsed timescales quoted are for consideration only i.e. they are not mandatory, and:

"Once the ATO has determined the needs of the applicant, it should develop an individual training programme that should be based on the initial training for the issue of the rating and focus on the aspects where the applicant has shown the greatest needs".

[SASless]

Thanks for your information everyone. As usual with Easa everything is very complicated.


Adding a new layer of bureaucracy onto what already exists is exactly the wrong way to simplify anything!

[Camp Freddie]

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/InformationNotice2014109.pdf

this information notice IN 2014/109 refers to all this

[nigelh]

SAS .... What else do you expect our little CAA bureaucrats to do in their ( ample ) spare time ? Try to make the skies safer ??? Make flying simpler ???
Get a grip man .. We're not smug Yanks with free skies ...!!

[SASless]

Well actually....as i am completely retired never to hold a Cyclic Stick ever again....I have a few suggestions for what the CAA Staff could do to occupy themselves between Tea Breaks, Subsidized Lunch Breaks, and Smoke Breaks.

Senior Pilot would very much not like what they are out of a sense of decorum and generally accepted modes of language and the like.

I am so glad not to never have to deal with those folks again.

Our FAA is not as bad as of yet....but hey....we are catching up pretty quickly.

Give them time and we will be right there alongside of Ya'll!

[LostInTrans]

Correct-its 3 hours MET Single Pilot to MET Single Pilot...

Its 5 hours for Multi Pilot to Multi Pilot...plus 2 hours for an IR.


And the single engine one:
They assume you will spend some time for autorotation (not required on multi engines)...

Thank you very much for your reply.

[maeroda]

my two cents:

AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1) Validity and renewal of class and type ratings 3)b)iv.

(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo the training
required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’, according to other valid ratings held.

That means that if the rating held is expired more than 3 years there are two options to renew it:
-again undergo the training
required for the initial issue of the rating (mean 5 hours training + 1 hour checkride).
-OR-
-in case of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’, according to other valid ratings held. (means 2 hours training + 1 hour checkride).

When getting up the ladder from SET to MET, the AMC1.FCL.725(a) states clearly what to do about it in terms of training, the assumption is transitioning from less complex to more complex aircraft, the training has to follow the same logic.
What EASA does not tell us is when transitioning from complex MET a/c's to less complex SET and this is because it is up to the ATO's to set up an individual training programme based on:
(1) the experience of the applicant. To determine this, the ATO should evaluate the pilot’s log book, and, if necessary, conduct a test in an FSTD;
(2) the complexity of the aircraft;
(3) the amount of time lapsed since the expiry of the validity period of the rating. The amount of training needed to reach the desired level of proficiency should increase with the time lapsed. In some cases, after evaluating the pilot, and when the time lapsed is very limited (less than 3 months), the ATO may even determine that no further refresher training is necessary. When determining the needs of the pilot, the following items can be taken into consideration.

Talking about the airframe, power-plant and systems, no one could honestly consider a SET having the same complexity level of a MET.

Example?
Pilot A with 3000 TT, 3000 f/h on SEP's helicopters and current on SEP's (Robinson 44, R22, H300 ecc.)
Pilot B with 3000 TT, 2800 f/h on MET's IR helicopters and current on MET's. (Aw139, Aw109, Bell 412 ecc.)

Both had a SET rating in the past and now expired since more than 3 years.

Being the complexity of the product (the rotorcraft) the parameter of the training to be delivered and considering previous applicant's experience on aircraft of similar complexity,
Pilot A shall undergo the SET training programme as initial issue.
Pilot B may be considered eligible for the 'additional type issue'.