Direct Entry FO

[FlyinColo]

So I see that Cathay is doing direct entry FOs if you have 1000+ airline hours. Does that mean when second officers upgrade they'll keep pushing me down in seniority or is each position independent?

[FlyinColo]

is there resentment then for guys coming in as direct entry FOs?

[FlyinColo]

Is that because people aren't applying or is the program very difficult to get accepted into?

[rustyoldtin]

Unofficially the plan is to scrap Adelaide altogether.. direct entry only.

[Natca]

is there resentment then for guys coming in as direct entry FOs?

Yes there is resentment, hate, and anger from SO's. You will go to the bottom of the seniority list and keep getting bypasses for rosters, vacation, etc etc. You are stealing our jobs and letting the company get away with cheap labor. DEFOs are part of the problem.

[FlyinColo]

How does it work with bidding aircraft when you get in? I see it's only 330 or 747 cargo. Do they assign it or we can pick? How long are you seat locked to that aircraft? Finally how long is the upgrades ?

[crewsunite]

Let's vote to include a Recruitment Ban
As part of the CC.

Why they hell should folk come here with a big smile and while we wither on the vine.

Who's in?

+1

[FlyinColo]

So.....anyone interested to answer my question?

[bellcrank88]

I don't think you will see any resentment from the Captains, rather a sigh of relief to have an FO who actually has some hands on flying experience.

[FlyinColo]

I don't think you will see any resentment from the Captains, rather a sigh of relief to have an FO who actually has some hands on flying experience.

I've done all kinds of hand flying turboprop flying without an AP and now I'm flying a CRJ 900. So not like I walked out of flight school and got a job like a lot of the SOs. It was just a different path cause we don't have the SO programs here. But if I could get on with Cathay now or wait for a US major that's 6 years away I'd rather get onto my final job now.

[Average Fool]

Maybe one of the many Yanks who have left Cathay after 10+ years to go to a US major can chime in and give you some insight.

Things are very very different here. And I don't mean that in a good way.

Read this forum. Look at the history.

I wish I could post it's just a bunch of naysayers but that would be a lie.

[boxjockey]

I have been here 11 years and have been waiting to get a base in the US for 6. If you ever wish to return home you may as well stay and fly for Allegiant or JB for a few years. This was supposed to be my "final job" as well, but each passing day makes me think that will not be the case.

box

[Avinthenews]

Pick the 747, you won't be on it long, a few years max, and then you'll be offered a US base on the 777X possibly A350 but doubtful.

:}

[paidinhours]

Yes there is resentment, hate, and anger from SO's. You will go to the bottom of the seniority list and keep getting bypasses for rosters, vacation, etc etc. You are stealing our jobs and letting the company get away with cheap labor. DEFOs are part of the problem.

Could you explain yourself a little more for us outsiders?

I turned down an SO interview a few years ago because the salary was too low for me in my personal situation to live in Hong Kong. In fact, the terms I was shown two years ago showed year 1 FO about 10 000HKD less per month than what they are showing now. So can someone please explain how DEFO are cheaper labor than SO?

[drfaust]

I find it slightly ironic that an SO can be accusing someone of cheap labor in the first place.

The only reason SO's exist anywhere is for cost reduction???

[FlyinColo]

What's the current upgrade time like out there now?

[AQIS Boigu]

SO -> JFO 3-4 years

SO/DEFO -> Captain 11-13 years

[cxorcist]

11 years to command is now. That will slow (is already?) once our ex-A and early "super" B scalers are retired. The unknown variables are airline growth (or contraction) and attrition of those leaving for greener pastures. Hard to predict those.

[Captain Dart]

Also factor the airport's and airspace's capacity at Hong Kong. The Chinese have not changed the airspace for decades and with competition from the growing Hainan Group airlines for slots, my bet is that in a few years expansion will stop. CX will be going nowhere.

In that case, it will be dead men's shoes for commands.

[The FUB]

CX will reap what it sows.

On all fleets the CN upgrades are predominately experienced FOs who joined circa 2006-2008 (commands pending). The success rate is and will continue to be high for the next 18mth+. However, many of the JFO upgrades are at present from ex cadets with little or no experience prior to CX, many are struggling. (babysitting the AP anyone?). With training resources dwindling by the month management continue to squander resources, the 150 sector upgrade is on the cards.

Whilst every new joiner doesn't have to be ex Thunderbirds pilots, they should know the basics of stick and rudder, sadly this now seems to be missing.

[Hugo Peroni the IV]

Yet, like those before you, you will just watch and suck it up!
QUOTE=Natca;9712702]Yes there is resentment, hate, and anger from SO's. You will go to the bottom of the seniority list and keep getting bypasses for rosters, vacation, etc etc. You are stealing our jobs and letting the company get away with cheap labor. DEFOs are part of the problem.[/QUOTE]

[SloppyJoe]

Anyone who read their contract before signing it won't have a problem with you joining as a DEFO.

[Luggage]

I find it slightly ironic that an SO can be accusing someone of cheap labor in the first place.

The only reason SO's exist anywhere is for cost reduction???

Exactly!!

I suggest all SO shut their gobs. You are nothing more than a wannabe while the rest of uspaid our duesin turbo props, regional jets etc actually doin real flying into busy international airports.

You dont deserve to upgrade over a DEFO with real flight time and experiece. You are the epitome of cheap labour!!

[dabz]

Half the SOs who've joined in past 3-4yrs have an ATPL, years in GA, turbo prop time, regional time, jet time etc and have paid their "dues".

You paint all SOs with the same brush but forget at some point in your career you too were at the bottom.


Exactly!!

I suggest all SO shut their gobs. You are nothing more than a wannabe while the rest of uspaid our duesin turbo props, regional jets etc actually doin real flying into busy international airports.

You dont deserve to upgrade over a DEFO with real flight time and experiece. You are the epitome of cheap labour!!

[Average Fool]

Well at the end of the day (career), that SO with zero experience will have a much greater return on their investment that those of us who slugged it out making crap wages and risking our lives to land that shiny jet job.

I would suggest those with the experience that allows you to bag on those without, use that flight time to get the hell out of this toxic place.

The way I see it, those SOs are far smarter than any of those who've "paid their dues"

Pointing the finger at them as cheap labor? Who allowed that to happen in the first place?

The stupidity and selfishness of this pilot group amazes me.

[goathead]

Well at the end of the day (career), that SO with zero experience will have a much greater return on their investment that those of us who slugged it out making crap wages and risking our lives to land that shiny jet job.

I would suggest those with the experience that allows you to bag on those without, use that flight time to get the hell out of this toxic place.

The way I see it, those SOs are far smarter than any of those who've "paid their dues"

Pointing the finger at them as cheap labor? Who allowed that to happen in the first place?

The stupidity and selfishness of this pilot group amazes me.

Well the trainers I guess?
They are training them aren't they ?

[BizJetJockey]

@Luggage, there is a word for people like you that I would be banned by the mods for using. I pity the poor suckers who ever find themselves crewed up with you. You are an extremely ignorant person who assumes that those who are SOs have zero flying skills. You're correct regarding a contingent of locals who joined as cadets however you forget that they have little choice in terms of the experience they are able to build. Hong Kong doesn't really offer the GA/Turboporp opportunities that other regions do. This is their only real opportunity to start their careers in aviation. If you were in their shoes, I think you may find it hard to refuse. Free training, a decent salary and solid career progression from the start. Yes, experience in other areas is extremely valuable and I feel fortunate for the opportunities I have had however they rarely have these opportunities. Secondly, you obviously have no idea about the people working at Cathay. You tar every SO with the same brush. Some SOs joined from other companies where they have extremely valuable experience as training captains on turboprops etc, corporate jet capts and fos, bush pilots etc etc. These guys joined as SOs for varying reasons however I can tell you right now that some took the first job they were offered after their last company went bust or they were made redundant. For most, the priority is to have a salary to feed the family, pay the rent or mortgage, keep the career moving and pay the money back that they fought so hard to save to get their licence in the first place. If you have nothing decent to say, don't say anything at all. If you were a decent person and there are many in aviation (unfortunately there are also people like you), you would know that it is an up hill struggle for most of us trying to maintain a decent career in aviation in order to feed the children and pay the bills. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a 'wannabe', you were one once and everyone deserves a shot!!

[Average Fool]

Well the trainers I guess?
They are training them aren't they ?


No. The trainers are doing the job they signed up to do, not solve the problem of declining conditions.

The pilot group has allowed this attack and many others happen over and over again. And please don't blame the AOA, they only represent the pilot body. And that body has made it very clear that they are willing to do f#%k all to protect their profession.

[Dragon69]

No. The trainers are doing the job they signed up to do, not solve the problem of declining conditions.

The big difference being is that they didn't sign up, they volunteered! So yes they are part of the problem..Agree with the rest.

[mngmt mole]

True. And it is also self-evident that every pilot who joined the airline is 'voluntarily' supporting the company through continuing in that position. When the AOA comes out with a complete training ban, then the argument becomes valid, not before.

[Average Fool]

All valid points. Yes the trainers volunteered.

But I think what it ultimately comes down to is a willingness to stand up to the company 100% unified no matter what the particulars.

[borntofly737]

Hello!

I was wondering if anybody had information on the DEFO interview, or will be attending in May.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

[broadband circuit]

I was wondering if anybody had information on the DEFO interview, or will be attending in May.

April fool ??????

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Why would that be an April fools. People are applying and being invited for interviews

[borntofly737]

No... not April Fools. I'm attending the selection process in May and there seems to be a limited amount of information on the web about the DEFO interview. So I thought maybe somebody here would have a few pointers they could share besides what I've already read for the SO interviews.

[mngmt mole]

Sure, come no over. You will instantly be regarded as someone who is willing to undermine an already aggrieved pilot group. You will find that you have been conned into moving to the most expensive city on earth, with a package that will make you live like a commuter pilot in the USA. You will lose your wife and family if you have one. You will be miserable, lonely, poor and frantic. Other than that, come one in...the water's lovely.

[McNugget]

What a load of bollocks.

[mrfox]

Exactly!!

I suggest all SO shut their gobs. You are nothing more than a wannabe while the rest of uspaid our duesin turbo props, regional jets etc actually doin real flying into busy international airports.

You dont deserve to upgrade over a DEFO with real flight time and experiece. You are the epitome of cheap labour!!

A RJ puke slinging mud about cheap labour - how ironic.

[broadband circuit]

with a package that will make you live like a commuter pilot in the USA

Correction:

with a package that will make you live worse than a commuter pilot in the USA

[JayTee777300]

How does it work with bidding aircraft when you get in? I see it's only 330 or 747 cargo. Do they assign it or we can pick? How long are you seat locked to that aircraft? Finally how long is the upgrades ?

FLYINCOLO, You seem keen a and capable guy... In answer to your questions just beware...
- you will be assigned a fleet, there is no bidding at CX.
- once assigned you will likely never leave that fleet UNLESS it suits Cathay to do so. Your desires and lifestyle are not considered. Once again, there is NO bidding at CX.
- even as you upgrade you will be assigned a fleet that is convenient to them to upgrade on. Your seniority means nothing and you will not be allowed to simply defer upgrade to pick a fleet of your choosing (ie. even if you do defer, you will still be assigned the same fleet... Mostly just to teach you a lesson.)
- seat locked? For as long as it suits them.

Note: some fleets have significantly worse lifestyles than others. Hope you don't get one of those on day 1, or that is it. Game over. In the DFO's words 'we don't discriminate on fleet pay hence we can put you on any fleet that suits us - we are not required to obey seniority'... This attitude unfortunately does not take into account lifestyle/roster and/or overtime though.

Additional info: if CX are still spruiking the "you will have a base in 5 years" line be cautious... I have recently flown with SO's that were STILL being told that in their interviews a couple of years ago (as was I 10+ years ago)... Despite the fact there has been no meaningful movement on bases in the last 9 years. When/if the bases did move there will be a lot of pent up demand... And you will be at the very bottom. At CX you can't downgrade to take a base meaning if you have upgraded to Capt you may never get a base (ie. can't downgrade to fill an FO slot).

This info it's just so you know... coming to CX in HK is a long term commitment. It is unlikely you will be taking any base before 7+ years.

It is a very different work place to the USA, Europe or Australia. CX as an employer are pretty much allowed to do what they want, picking or choosing to honor the parts of your contact that suit them.

Good luck with it.

[FlyinColo]

FLYINCOLO, You seem keen a and capable guy... In answer to your questions just beware...
- you will be assigned a fleet, there is no bidding at CX.
- once assigned you will likely never leave that fleet UNLESS it suits Cathay to do so. Your desires and lifestyle are not considered. Once again, there is NO bidding at CX.
- even as you upgrade you will be assigned a fleet that is convenient to them to upgrade on. Your seniority means nothing and you will not be allowed to simply defer upgrade to pick a fleet of your choosing (ie. even if you do defer, you will still be assigned the same fleet... Mostly just to teach you a lesson.)
- seat locked? For as long as it suits them.

Note: some fleets have significantly worse lifestyles than others. Hope you don't get one of those on day 1, or that is it. Game over. In the DFO's words 'we don't discriminate on fleet pay hence we can put you on any fleet that suits us - we are not required to obey seniority'... This attitude unfortunately does not take into account lifestyle/roster and/or overtime though.

Additional info: if CX are still spruiking the "you will have a base in 5 years" line be cautious... I have recently flown with SO's that were STILL being told that in their interviews a couple of years ago (as was I 10+ years ago)... Despite the fact there has been no meaningful movement on bases in the last 9 years. When/if the bases did move there will be a lot of pent up demand... And you will be at the very bottom. At CX you can't downgrade to take a base meaning if you have upgraded to Capt you may never get a base (ie. can't downgrade to fill an FO slot).

This info it's just so you know... coming to CX in HK is a long term commitment. It is unlikely you will be taking any base before 7+ years.

It is a very different work place to the USA, Europe or Australia. CX as an employer are pretty much allowed to do what they want, picking or choosing to honor the parts of your contact that suit them.

Good luck with it.

Thank you for your useful insight JayTee. I really appreciate the information

[Beggar]

Gentlemen, does anyone know the structure of the ASPEQ ICAO exam(Cathay Pacific)? Where can I find this information? And who is good at preparing it? Thanks a lot!

[Luggage]

A RJ puke slinging mud about cheap labour - how ironic.

Nothing wrong with flying RJ, most small airports cant take bigger jets. RJ flying is real and hard.

A tw@t like you would not know real work if it hit you in the face. An SO is the epitome of cheap labour, thats not slinging mud but a fact.

I guarentee you a lot of those RJ pukes as you so politely call them will have far superior flying skills and abilities to you. :ugh:

[cxorcist]

Nothing wrong with flying RJ, most small airports cant take bigger jets. RJ flying is real and hard.

A tw@t like you would not know real work if it hit you in the face. An SO is the epitome of cheap labour, thats not slinging mud but a fact.

I guarentee you a lot of those RJ pukes as you so politely call them will have far superior flying skills and abilities to you. :ugh:

Very true, Luggage. However, RJ pilots, in general, are doing the same thing SOs are doing. Working cheap, trying to build good time, all in hopes of better things in the future. The upside for RJ pilots is that they can choose from a plethora of hiring airlines. Not so for SOs, they are locked in at CX for at least 5 years before they get any relevant experience. By then, the RJ pilot is long since a captain but still doesn't have a seniority number anywhere. The SO has a seniority number at CX, which used to be worth something. Now? I'm starting to wonder...

[Luggage]

Very true, Luggage. However, RJ pilots, in general, are doing the same thing SOs are doing. Working cheap, trying to build good time, all in hopes of better things in the future. The upside for RJ pilots is that they can choose from a plethora of hiring airlines. Not so for SOs, they are locked in at CX for at least 5 years before they get any relevant experience. By then, the RJ pilot is long since a captain but still doesn't have a seniority number anywhere. The SO has a seniority number at CX, which used to be worth something. Now? I'm starting to wonder...

Well I sort of agree with you on the money side but with a different outlook. An RJ pilot on an ERJ175 does the EXACT same job as an A320/330 pilot but for less money flying into airports a 320 cant always go however RJ pilots also fly in and out of major airports like ORD, DFW, LAX, LGA, DCA etc.

Their flight time and experience is not worth anything less than a 737/747 pilots time and have certainly earned their stripes but for less money. The options available to them should be better than an SO, they do a real world flying job and dont buy their way into jobs like European pilots do with P2F and buying 500 on type (no time for those losers either).

An SO could have become an RJ pilot and got real first hand left and right seat experience on a twin jet with an MTOW of 40 tons plus, just as good as a 320 or 737. However they chose to become an SO doing nothing and gaining nothing but sitting in a jumpseat or RHS at FL370 over the Pacific...MONITORING!!

I have experience flying RJ and A320 so I know both worlds and RJ guys are some of the best pilots I have ever come accross. The workload is incredible and they get some of the best hands on experience I have ever seen.:ok:

[mrfox]

An RJ pilot on an ERJ175 does the EXACT same job as an A320/330 pilot but for less money
Their flight time and experience is not worth anything less than a 737/747 pilots time and have certainly earned their stripes but for less money.

So you felt your job was worth more, but you took the low paying offer anyway.
I'm guessing because it was the best opportunity available.
Hi kettle!

[Luggage]

So you felt your job was worth more, but you took the low paying offer anyway.
I'm guessing because it was the best opportunity available.
Hi kettle!

No I took an RJ job because I moved to the US, have interviews set up now for 320 and 747/767 jobs as well as an offer to interview from CX and even HKA but not interested in the problems in HK anymore.

Thats the way it is in the US, seniority is everything, you dont get to buy your way into a shiny AA A320 because you want to.

I have no regrets with my career neither have I undercut anybody....unlike some!!

[mrfox]

Thats the way it is in the US, seniority is everything,


So seniority is everything to you, except when it comes to DEFO over SO?

[SloppyJoe]

Every SO signed a contract, in that contract DEFO is allowed. If someone joins as a DEFO they are junior in seniority to an SO who joined a day before them.

It amazes me how people can get upset when CX complies with the contract YOU signed.

[pfvspnf]

An RJ is a very small jet, the SO will probably know a lot more than you . If this is the attitude you might as well not join

[GICASI2]

I have had the pleasure of flying with some very talented young (and old) SOs from all backgrounds and experience levels. The smart ones do a grand job and soak up the experience of watching the operation when not in the seat. This is the major part of the transition from their previous life to 'the Cathay Way'. The ability to follow the FDs and not crash in the last 200' is easily taught in the first few sectors. Untraining your (luggage) 'this is not the way we did it on RJs blah' is the difficult part... not that I would be a trainer in Cathay!

[MDelf]

Hello!

I was wondering if anybody had information on the DEFO interview, or will be attending in May.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Same here!

[SkewedFlaps]

Luggage must be an amazing pilot because he flew the RJ. Who here would like to be in a cockpit with him though?

[Luggage]

So seniority is everything to you, except when it comes to DEFO over SO?

No numbskull, Im just telling you how it works in the US.:D

[Luggage]

An RJ is a very small jet, the SO will probably know a lot more than you . If this is the attitude you might as well not join

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! What utter rubbish... Im a 777 pilot, my jets bigger than an A320/E175 so I must be a better pilot...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Tool of the day comment!!

[Luggage]

I have had the pleasure of flying with some very talented young (and old) SOs from all backgrounds and experience levels. The smart ones do a grand job and soak up the experience of watching the operation when not in the seat. This is the major part of the transition from their previous life to 'the Cathay Way'. The ability to follow the FDs and not crash in the last 200' is easily taught in the first few sectors. Untraining your (luggage) 'this is not the way we did it on RJs blah' is the difficult part... not that I would be a trainer in Cathay!

What!!!An RJ pilot needs to be retaught howto land....what utter CR@P!!!

Get off your high horse, Im a 777 pilot....I fly a bigger jet so I must be better.

Im pretty sure the 13000 hour RJ Captains and FO's I have flown with will make the transition just fine.

Those Asiana pilots on their 777 did a bang up job landing in SFO, Guess they followed your well taught fly the FD to the ground theory as well...Jeez!!

Heres a thought, you can become an SO and monitor and learn as you put it or actually sit in the right hand seat of a real jet and fly, take off, land, fly an arrival/approach...gee what a novel idea.

[Luggage]

Luggage must be an amazing pilot because he flew the RJ. Who here would like to be in a cockpit with him though?

No I have only flown twin piston/turbo prop, A320 and E175, never a big bird like a 777 so I must be a rank amatuer still and not up to your lofty standards.

I guess those 14 flight sectors over 4 days to all different airport, long and short runways, good and bad weather, busiest airports in the world (DFW/ATL/ORD), inflight emergencies as well as international in North/South America has just been a complete waste of time...

I patiently wait to be taken under the wing of a real pilot such as a 777 CX guy...that will show me!!

[pfvspnf]

Yup you're a sky God because you have bumd around in a regional jet.

Let's see you operate in the typhoon season at VHHH or go into PEK

Also do you know that SOs are in the sim being checked very very often , there are things in the jump seat that nobody else sees, it never gets mentioned but they have saved the day many times.

What bothers me the most is your poor attitude,I don't think you'll last in the region . If this is the quality that Cx is desperate for I pity the companies future. Captains get ready for some baby sitting !

[cxorcist]

I have to agree with Luggage on most of this. CX is a toxic Petri dish when it comes to flying skills. This rears its ugly head time and again when we are asked to fly a visual approach with nothing more than a PAPI, or God forbid, the CRI VOR 13L without full RNP AR automation.

Face it colleagues, CX pilots' hand flying skills suck. Turning off the flight directors and A/T only happens above 1000' once every blue moon. I personally try to do it more often, but it usually gets the PM very nervous even after having briefed it and I hardly ever see that from others.

The 3:1 rule seems lost on most of our younger pilots. Many have no clue what energy state / altitude they should be at for given distances. They're just relying on the VNAV path. Did they ever learn it, or have they just forgotten or become too task saturated for it?

Luggage is right. We aren't very good, and certainly not proportional to the egos we read on here. Most of us could use some "regional" time to sharpen up, and especially our lesser experienced colleagues who never flew it in the first place.

[Luggage]

Yup you're a sky God because you have bumd around in a regional jet.

Let's see you operate in the typhoon season at VHHH or go into PEK

Also do you know that SOs are in the sim being checked very very often , there are things in the jump seat that nobody else sees, it never gets mentioned but they have saved the day many times.

What bothers me the most is your poor attitude,I don't think you'll last in the region . If this is the quality that Cx is desperate for I pity the companies future. Captains get ready for some baby sitting !

BWAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Baby sitting...yeah all right, calm down mate!

Typhoon season...hahahahaha, yeah we have no hurricanes or tornados, severe thunderstorms etc in the US...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

What a stupid comment!!

[Luggage]

Luggage I don't understand why you are carrying on about the 777 as the DEFO role does not apply for that. Ask how much the 330 flogs around Asia? Do they do enough landings for you?

The SO is an entry level job, just like the RJ is an entry level job in the states.

The RJ is an entry level job in the States only due to seniority, paying your dues etc..(money wise and so forth....

However it is the exact same job a United or American Airlines a 737 pilot does. An SO does not EVEN fly, just monitors...no comparison!!

[Luggage]

I have to agree with Luggage on most of this. CX is a toxic Petri dish when it comes to flying skills. This rears its ugly head time and again when we are asked to fly a visual approach with nothing more than a PAPI, or God forbid, the CRI VOR 13L without full RNP AR automation.

Face it colleagues, CX pilots' hand flying skills suck. Turning off the flight directors and A/T only happens above 1000' once every blue moon. I personally try to do it more often, but it usually gets the PM very nervous even after having briefed it and I hardly ever see that from others.

The 3:1 rule seems lost on most of our younger pilots. Many have no clue what energy state / altitude they should be at for given distances. They're just relying on the VNAV path. Did they ever learn it, or have they just forgotten or become too task saturated for it?

Luggage is right. We aren't very good, and certainly not proportional to the egos we read on here. Most of us could use some "regional" time to sharpen up, and especially our lesser experienced colleagues who never flew it in the first place.

A man I can relate too. Hearing things like 3:1 rule, hand flying etc is music too my ears.

Im sure there are many skilled 'Heavy' pilot on big birds but their are ton who think they are skilled and certainly dont do the hand flying that an RJ pilot does or have the ability of an RJ pilot.

As for the new generation of MPL/777 pilots with VNAV and autoland...god help us all.

So good to hear your appreciation for good old fashioned stick and rudder, visual approaches etc.

[Luggage]

So is the SO job?



So what? After a few years in the back they get to fly. I don't understand why this is such a sore point for you.

edit:


So why don't United/American airlines pilots do that job? Something to do with money? Na can't be cheap labour.

Hahahaha you dimwit, its called scope!! Try looking it up, you know nothing about the US market.

The only way into a US major is thru a regional airline (some military get direct entry) otherwise you will not get in.

The regionals fly the routes thru a contract with the US majors, however SCOPE only allows up to a certain size aircraft/number of seats at the regional and do you want to know why?...

It is to prevent cheap labour you numbskull!! It stops the regional buyiing A320/757 and flying those routes for those aircraft while undercutting pilot salaries at the majors...hence protection from cheap labour whilst still getting the regional airports serviced and pilots getting good experience on jets.

Even though I had A320 experience I had to join a regional when I got here as thats the way it is and I am grateful for the opportunity and flying I have done.

As for your SO flying many years later you want to know why I have a problem with it...err they dont fly!!! 4 years later an RJ FO has built up 3000 plus hours of actuall jet flying and you think an SO is the same thing, are you demented!!

Cant wait to put my family on a plane with an SO taking over due to pilot incapacitation with his 5 years of monitoring...wow we should all be so lucky!!

Sure his flying skills will be top notch. That 35 - 40 knot cross wind landing will be a breeze for him to handle, you know the type us RJ pukes deal with in Chicago (windy city) on a regular basis but hey, what do I know. Im not an experienced CX Pilot Sky god!!

[Luggage]

Err what were you mad lads getting paid a few years ago? 19K per annum?
You're right, I know nothing about the US market. Couldn't care less.

Why are you getting so passionate about CX when you clearly have no interest in working for them?

Not mad at all. Had an offer from CX, chose not to take it due to the fact CX is basically the Titanic....just like you, I could not care less about CX.

This originally started about SO (So called pilots) whom I think are nothing more than cheap labour with good monitoring skills because they sure as hell dont fly.

Either way, CX made their bed and must lie in it, not my problem.

[Luggage]

[QUOTE=ADFUS;9740320]Err what were you mad lads getting paid a few years ago? 19K per annum?

RJ guys may have been getting 19k a few years ago but you are missing one very big point.

They were NOT UNDERCUTTING pilots salaries at the majors due to SCOPE which I have just explained!!:D

Yet did an honest days work in an RJ getting fantastic hands on twin jet experience whilst doing the EXACT same job as a United 737 pilot.

Nothing wrong with that in my book...seems to be a sore point for you though and the holy SO's.:rolleyes:

[pfvspnf]

Luggage you will never ever make it to captain at Cx or any other major airline . You clearly live in a bubble and don't have a clue how things work.

I truly feel sorry for the SOs that you are going to be flying with. I'd rather trust them in the jump seat than have you up front any day of the week.

FYI it's not always 3:1 , the children of the magenta line can multiply too..

[Luggage]

So let me guess this straight.

You are on a work visa in the US (2 years was it?) with absolutely NO CHANCE of progressing into a mainline carrier. You have been bouncing around the world looking for a job (Cebu, Macau, DHL, AJX, KA, CX) after you paid for an a320 type rating and got some hours in it (why only a few hundred?).

Now after finding out that in CX you will be behind a couple of hundred SOs for command you got your panties in a twist and started spewing insults on the forum.

With an attitude like that how will you ever survive as an SO in QANTAS? How's the application going so far?

Edit: Wishing you all the best for the 2018 Diversity Visa lottery.

Hahahahahah....what a tool.

Err..I have a green card, secondly never paid for a rating in my life as I stated in an earlier post (dont abide by p2f and screwing my fellow pilots over).

Thirdly have many options and interviews lined up in the US with very good TA rates unlike you on you CX/KA salary in a place thats as expensive as NY.

Would never ever join QF as an SO even though I respect the airline. SO is just a complete and utterwaste of time. Why would I do that with 1000's of jet hours....wake up man.

I would gladly work for QF but equally happy at Hawaiian airlines, Delta, Fedex, UPS, JetBlue, Virgin America, Alaska, Southwest...all good airlines.

Already have an interiew with a US major so CX, DHL, Cebu...not very high on my list.

Unlike you, I have options..

Hows life in that polluted dump you now call home..hahahahahha!!

[Luggage]

Luggage you will never ever make it to captain at Cx or any other major airline . You clearly live in a bubble and don't have a clue how things work.

I truly feel sorry for the SOs that you are going to be flying with. I'd rather trust them in the jump seat than have you up front any day of the week.

FYI it's not always 3:1 , the children of the magenta line can multiply too..

Yeah okay dad...guess I have not proved myself sitting up front all those years like an SO...Oh wait!!

[Luggage]

[QUOTE=ADFUS;9740345]So let me guess this straight.

You are on a work visa in the US (2 years was it?) with absolutely NO CHANCE of progressing into a mainline carrier. You have been bouncing around the world looking for a job (Cebu, Macau, DHL, AJX, KA, CX) after you paid for an a320 type rating and got some hours in it (why only a few hundred?).

It's called resigning from your job and emigrating to a different country for my familys future but dont let that get in the way of you knowing more about me and my career than I do..

[Luggage]

FYI it's not always 3:1 , the children of the magenta line can multiply too..[/QUOTE]

Pity they cant fly but Im so glad they can use vnav and disconnect at 800 feet for a straight in approach on a calm sunny day...heavy workload after 6 hours in the bunk, as for that SO watching the landing...what knowledge gained verses say actually hand flying it yourself.

[Luggage]

Written by you a few months ago.



Of course you do :D:D:D and I am the Queen Of England.



It called lifestyle and seniority, something you keep harping on about.


....and now Im on a green card, whats so hard to understand. I applied and got one...

As for the majors interview...whatever floats your boat man.

Life is peachy, hows life for you in HK, still bitter and twisted are we...hahahahaha.

[cxorcist]

FYI it's not always 3:1 , the children of the magenta line can multiply too..

Uh, yeah it is, below 10K anyways. Sure, a little smudge here and there for weight, winds, and airspeed has been known to help, but stick to 3:1 and everything will be alright.

Not to worry though Magenta, you just keep following that Chinese glideslope. It's never led anyone astray.

[mrfox]

No numbskull, Im just telling you how it works in the US.:D
Enjoy flying in the US. I think we are both happier that you are over there and not here. Have a nice life.

[Luggage]

Enjoy flying in the US. I think we are both happier that you are over there and not here. Have a nice life.

I will however unlike you I still pull for the CX pilot group and hope the TA comes out in your favour. I try not to screw fellow aviators over...

Would be a shame to seea terrific brand go down the tubes...I mean that!!

[drfaust]

Best thread I've seen on this forum in a long time! Keep it up!

[pfvspnf]

Luggage it's funny how it's the people like you who claim to have all the options for jobs are here asking for career advice and then berating others

Your 200 hours on the a320 really does sound strange , you either paid to fly or was given the sack quite early

You will be easily identifiable where ever you end up

[Luggage]

Luggage it's funny how it's the people like you who claim to have all the options for jobs are here asking for career advice and then berating others

Your 200 hours on the a320 really does sound strange , you either paid to fly or was given the sack quite early

You will be easily identifiable where ever you end up

Hahahahahahahahahha

[Luggage]

Do everyone a favour mate & walk away from PPRUNE.
You're not doing your case any favours arguing with people you've openly stated you have no desire working for.

True I have no desire to work there but I am still entitled to post an opinion...just saying.

[Luggage]

Luggage it's funny how it's the people like you who claim to have all the options for jobs are here asking for career advice and then berating others

Your 200 hours on the a320 really does sound strange , you either paid to fly or was given the sack quite early

You will be easily identifiable where ever you end up

People like you really are imbeciles..I guess you know my work history better thn me. I must have been sacked everywhere I worked, paid to fly and am desperate for a job...Im probably not even flying a jet now....hell am I even a pilot?

Hahahahahahahahahhaha...you clown!!

[mrfox]

People like you really are imbeciles..I guess you know my work history better thn me. I must have been sacked everywhere I worked, paid to fly and am desperate for a job...Im probably not even flying a jet now....hell am I even a pilot?

Hahahahahahahahahhaha...you clown!!
No, you sound exactly like how we imagine a RJ pilot would sound. Good job.

[Luggage]

No, you sound exactly like how we imagine a RJ pilot would sound. Good job.

At least an RJ pilot has flying skills, unlike your lot, proven failures when it comes to hand flying. Children of the magenta. Good job.:D

[SkewedFlaps]

Luggage a.k.a sky god

You are a mess.

[pfvspnf]

Ok last one before I stop feeding the troll ..

You go on about how good your hand flying is , do you really think the rest of us have passed our OPCs , recurrent sims, command interviews and any other evaluations by not being able to fly the jet raw data ?

These are serious attitude problems that a psychometric test can easily weed out !

Do yourself a favour, take a breath, calm the **c* down and get off the high horse as soon as possible, it won't do you any good , not in Cx not anywhere!

[Trafalgar]

No, let him stew in his own juices. Latest candidate for the aviation Darwin Award.

[cxorcist]

Ok last one before I stop feeding the troll ..

You go on about how good your hand flying is , do you really think the rest of us have passed our OPCs , recurrent sims, command interviews and any other evaluations by not being able to fly the jet raw data ?

These are serious attitude problems that a psychometric test can easily weed out !

Do yourself a favour, take a breath, calm the **c* down and get off the high horse as soon as possible, it won't do you any good , not in Cx not anywhere!

You're ridiculous! The standards on raw data flying for CX SOs is almost zero. Why would you need to be able to do that? You don't sit in the seat for takeoff and landing. Shut the **c* up. You sound ridiculous. Truly!

[pfvspnf]

So there's another one ? What's your beef ? Fired ?

I can't comment on Cx SOs and their training program. I'm sure they do just fine whilst upgrading and being check to line.

For the rest of us , most of us fly manual sims, hell I've done visual approaches and auto thrust off many many times, what are you trying to prove ? That you can fly ? In an emergency you are the type of people I certainly don't want flying the jet .

[Trafalgar]

handbags at dawn.....

[Natca]

You're ridiculous! The standards on raw data flying for CX SOs is almost zero. Why would you need to be able to do that? You don't sit in the seat for takeoff and landing. Shut the **c* up. You sound ridiculous. Truly!

I agree actually with this post, the standards from the cad and some individuals have zero hand flying ability, yes. However the cx program and grading scale usually will catch up and gobble these stagglerd up somewhere before their ql. Just depends on how willing cx is to push these people through. There is quite a wash out rate towards the end of adelaide, some habe been washing out in the first 6 months aswell. After that the issues pop up around the ql mark. Still the let them fly its just how long.

[Luggage]

So there's another one ? What's your beef ? Fired ?

I can't comment on Cx SOs and their training program. I'm sure they do just fine whilst upgrading and being check to line.

For the rest of us , most of us fly manual sims, hell I've done visual approaches and auto thrust off many many times, what are you trying to prove ? That you can fly ? In an emergency you are the type of people I certainly don't want flying the jet .

Hahahahha told!!! People working there saying how rubbish you guys are.

You and Mr Fox as well as AFDUS and co really need to stop talking now.

Hahahahahahha

[Luggage]

Ok last one before I stop feeding the troll ..

You go on about how good your hand flying is , do you really think the rest of us have passed our OPCs , recurrent sims, command interviews and any other evaluations by not being able to fly the jet raw data ?

These are serious attitude problems that a psychometric test can easily weed out !

Do yourself a favour, take a breath, calm the **c* down and get off the high horse as soon as possible, it won't do you any good , not in Cx not anywhere!

Yeah Im sure you are a regular top gun. Psychometric testing...please give it a rest you whinging crybaby.

Millenial snowflake generation are we!!

[Luggage]

So there's another one ? What's your beef ? Fired ?

I can't comment on Cx SOs and their training program. I'm sure they do just fine whilst upgrading and being check to line.

For the rest of us , most of us fly manual sims, hell I've done visual approaches and auto thrust off many many times, what are you trying to prove ? That you can fly ? In an emergency you are the type of people I certainly don't want flying the jet .

Errr yes, flying is the whole point unlike you magenta boy!! The whole point of an emergency when the plane is broken is too fly it safely to the ground and land, manually if necessary when the AP is on the frity and nothing works

Wow you are the last person who should be behind the controls of a jet, especially with people on board.

Emergencies dont always go according to CX SOP genius, you might have to FLY!!!

[MACH.88]

You guys are wasting my bandwidth!

MACH.88 :cool:

[Callsign Kilo]

Good God, grow up. Willy waving at its finest. Who cares if you can 'hand fly the jet?' It's a pre-requisite. What about why CX is going down the sh1t pan?

[Ace Man]

Reading the trash right here is why CX is going the direction it is - self righteous, self entitled pr!cks having a d!ck measuring contest. Exactly the right recipe for cockpit CRM.

[crwkunt roll]

Just depends on how willing cx is to push these people through.
It's not hard to pass a QL these days. I have read a few recent QL check reports which did not recommend a "pass", yet Bloggs has been released.

[JayTee777300]

.............https://samesidessupportforstraightspouses.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/anchormanescalatedquickly.jpg

[badge]

Anyone have information on the DEFO assessment?? :)

[flybywire73747]

I've been through the DEFO process if anyone wants to pm questions

[cxorcist]

How generous! Please let everyone know how cut in front of our SOs and simultaneously help solve CX's problems with regard to the training ban. I'm sure everyone is going to welcome you with open arms to CX. Have a nice career in HK!

[altiplano]

Wow seems like a nice bunch...

[Average Fool]

How generous! Please let everyone know how cut in front of our SOs and simultaneously help solve CX's problems with regard to the training ban. I'm sure everyone is going to welcome you with open arms to CX. Have a nice career in HK!

Dont flame him. This pilot group allowed this to happen. Rolled over like a _______

Just like B scale
Just like the 49ers
Just like DECs
Just like HKPA
Just like _______

"I doesn't affect me, why should I care"

[cxorcist]

Dont flame him. This pilot group allowed this to happen. Rolled over like a _______

Just like B scale
Just like the 49ers
Just like DECs
Just like HKPA
Just like _______

"I doesn't affect me, why should I care"

Fair enough, but don't expect me to role out the red carpet. These guys get sectors sparingly, the worst rest, and the privilege of juniority forever.

Types? A330 regional grind or 747F hodgepodge of two-man middle of the night crap with massive disruption. Bases? Forget about it. Never going to happen for #3200+ on HKPA. Package? Attractive on paper, but if you're not factoring in the cost of living in HK, you are IMC in the cockpit. It's simply not enough unless you are single, married with a working wife sans kids, or you can live with your parents at their place in HK.

But by all means, join! Being a part of the solution to CX's industrial problems will feel great, especially after you have been sufficiently screwed over and realize how much CX actually despises you for being a pilot.

[altiplano]

Good luck.

[Trafalgar]

..."we all can get jaded".... Oh, I assure you, you will. :ugh:

[altiplano]

. . . . . . .

[betpump5]

Bottom line is I'm trying to get an understanding of how my current employer really compares. .

And you haven't got that yet from any of the threads written on this forum in the last 5 years?

Or just couldnt be arsed to read back? Either way if join, your D.O.J will be known to everyone. Don't expect to gain many friends when you join during a training ban and with relations with the company at an all time low. Previous guys who joined during the recruiting ban still living under the stigma.

[cxorcist]

betpump,

Why do we even bother? It's like we are speaking different languages. These guys will turn the job into whatever they want it to be in their minds, only to be the next round of bitter and disenfranchised HKAOA pilots. The cost of HK living cannot be fully appreciated until it has been experienced. Perception is reality, and to many HK and CX still represent a decades old legacy of pilot glamour and affluence. The allure is wearing off fast for those with open eyes, but for those who are wanting to believe, it just doesn't matter. Maybe Islam and 70 virgins will be attractive for them in the future as well.

[altiplano]

Little children with no substance.

Pathetic.

[Springbok614]

Confirm a current SO has higher seniority than a DEFO?

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Confirm a current SO has higher seniority than a DEFO?

Yes. All based on DOJ. Seniority is what matters for command

[AQIS Boigu]

Confirm a current SO has higher seniority than a DEFO?

Yes and so he/she should!!!

For anyone thinking about joining - you will have about 1700 (!!!) pilots ahead of you if you join today. Do the numbers...(not just time to upgrade but also your household budget).

[Springbok614]

Yes and so he/she should!!!

For anyone thinking about joining - you will have about 1700 (!!!) pilots ahead of you if you join today. Do the numbers...(not just time to upgrade but also your household budget).

It is an absolute no brainer to not go there as an experienced airline pilot...

The idea years ago to join the TT programme as a pilot with actual experience and be on the level with Ab-initio- and Advanced Cadets did not sit well either.

DOJ is the measure though and I feel for the SOs waiting in line in turn while DEFO are hired.

[The Visionary]

S/Os are being bypassed for upgrades as well as F/Os. Seniority means absolutely nothing at this place. Tons of people in the Cat D/B status and with loads of experience. Go have a look at the list and see what dates of hire some F/Os have. It will shock you. The company uses upgrades/promotions as a tool against its crews. The assesment is biased and totally ridiculous. It's also lucky whom you get but we have standards right-RUBBISH.

I hate to say this, we do have some really switched on people, but we also have a lot of "F" tards in the left, well all, seats. Training here is embarrasing at best and God help you if you get a writer or a sim instructor who thinks he's a checker! Concorde boy, now on 777, is a real doozy and more so his boss who had to explain himself in Oz for doing bizzare things.

Look, this Fragrant forum is full of what this place is now. It's FUBAR-period. It's not even fun anymore. We used to say "get away from Hong Kong" but now the stench is everywhere. Like Emirates, people are leaving just to get away from the dysfunction and inbreeding.

Hong Kong is also being overrun by cockroaches and it will get on your nerves. It's also, expensive, polluted and THE EFFING NOSIEST PLACE ON THE PLANET!

Time to leave.

FU CAD

[CCA]

Have any direct entry FOs actually joined CX yet?

[AQIS Boigu]

There is any easy way to keep an eye on it. Last time round CX hired DEFOs (10-11 years ago) about 20% got the sack during the training - this should improve since the Rottweiler didn't get extended.

[744drv]

Just take a look at the last seniority list: there are at least a dozen FOs in the 'SO territory'. There are even a couple of FOs on the last page of the seniority list. Some are sufficiently green to not hide their names from the list!

[Sqwak7700]

Some are sufficiently green to not hide their names from the list!

Why do they need to hide?

[betpump5]

Why do they need to hide?

If I had joined the company as a DEFO during a time when it was globally known that relations with the company is at an all time low, and that the concept of DEFO is to get around CC/TB I would certainly want to hide.

[Captain Dart]

I want to know because I doubt the mental competence of anyone who would join this outfit at the current time and under the conditions on offer.

[Natca]

Have any direct entry FOs actually joined CX yet?

There have been 5 to date including one re-hire

[CCA]

Some S/Os were eligible to be fast tracked to JF/O so they will appear as F/O on the seniority list. They aren't DEFO.

[Average Fool]

Is there a hiring ban in place?

If not, then STFU and grow a pair.

The reality of the situation is this spineless pilot group has consistently allowed the employment of pilots under lesser terms.

S/Os
ASL
DEFOs
DECs

Don't treat these guys like garbage because you didn't have the insight to see whay was really happening and then lacked the fortitude to do anything about it.

[cxorcist]

Is there a hiring ban in place?

If not, then STFU and grow a pair.

The reality of the situation is this spineless pilot group has consistently allowed the employment of pilots under lesser terms.

S/Os
ASL
DEFOs
DECs

Don't treat these guys like garbage because you didn't have the insight to see whay was really happening and then lacked the fortitude to do anything about it.

Fair points, but I think it is also appropriate for DEFOs to know what they are stepping into at CX. They certainly won't get the straight scoop from the Company.

[Average Fool]

Agree 100%

What an utter disgrace that this company flat out lies to prospective employees (and current employees) to lure them into the job.

[raven11]

You mean like bases, 13th month, and profit share?

[Trafalgar]

....we have a 'bingo'....:ok: (and oh boy is the complete list a long one)

[Average Fool]

I would love to know what they are actually telling people.

[cxorcist]

I would love to know what they are actually telling people.

"Time to Win!"

[Flex88]

Just wondering - are we to consider DE FO's as "Brushwingers" ❓❓

At this Time To Win phase of CX's evolution, things such as this are very important :8

[The Visionary]

I would call them "Gearpullers" as they are not good at anything else.

[badge]

So anybody got any feedback on the DEFO interview?

Cheers!

[Avinthenews]

Has an actual DEFO been hired?

Hard to tell on the seniority list with eligible SOs being fast tracked to JFO.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

A few have been hired, hard to say how many though

[boxjockey]

I heard 8.

box

[cpahka]

I heard 8.

box

I knew one from HKA joined this month, type rated HK licence & no work visa problem !

[mr did]

They don't need as many now, 2 second officers on long haul flights to begin.

[744drv]

Bound to delay the upgrade of B777 SOs

[mr did]

Qantas have been doing 2 Second Officers for years. Their upgrade time can be decades..

SO, No housing, No bases, No upgrades and No flying for many many years. Might be a few more junior guys heading off soon then

[BizJetJockey]

Aren't the elligable SOs being fast tracked directly to FO? They skip the JFO stage Don't they?

[BizJetJockey]

Aren't the elligable SOs being fast tracked directly to FO? They skip the JFO stage don't they?

[gretzky99]

The minimums for a fast track upgrade were 500 jet or PIC on an ATR/Dash 8 or similar. Unfortunately there are a lot of experienced SOs who still didn't make these requirements. Think turbo prop FOs and King Air/metro guys. One would think they'll be first out the door now.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Interesting to note that current DEFO will remain at the bottom of the FO seniority list for the next 7-8 years whilst there is a slow trickle of SO upgrades who hold a higher seniority

[Natca]

Not true, it was 1000 jet above 20tons aswell.


The minimums for a fast track upgrade were 500 jet or PIC on an ATR/Dash 8 or similar. Unfortunately there are a lot of experienced SOs who still didn't make these requirements. Think turbo prop FOs and King Air/metro guys. One would think they'll be first out the door now.

[Mbhon]

Can anyone please give more information on the assessment (questions asked)?
Thanks

[Trafalgar]

Oh mate, you are perfect for this place. Management will LOVE you. :rolleyes:

[otlop]

Has anyone had the interview for DEFO?
What to study? Any recommendation?

Tks

[broadband circuit]

What to study? Any recommendation?

The wannabees forum is probably a good start

[jaiveerjhala]

whats the forum called?
thanks

[broadband circuit]

South Asia And Far East Wannabees

https://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east-wannabes-99/

[jaiveerjhala]

thanks buddy

[ATPLwhoops]

I passed as SO. Great experience was intense though.
I prepped in a 777 sim. Perhaps the only sim available in Europe was in Rome. I booked this through base.mu

contact: [email protected]

They will get you through the sim profile, it was basically identical. Its not worth going on the 737. Much better to fly the 777. Pricing was reasonable also. Very happy overall.

[sky210]

Hi guys. anyone know the bases that Cathay has? What is the avarage salary of a 747 pilot. What would be a time to upgrade for DEFO and how is the environment inside the cockpit and on training?
thanks

[jetset]

Average the salary is indeed, time to upgrade will be as per the seniority and the environment in the cockpit is extremely dry.

[Trafalgar]

:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

[DALTA]

Hey guys,

Any latest info on the demands for DEFO ? The pass rate for the interview ?
Time from initial application until being called to go there ?

Thanks :)

[CyberT]

Hi guys. anyone know the bases that Cathay has? What is the avarage salary of a 747 pilot. What would be a time to upgrade for DEFO and how is the environment inside the cockpit and on training?
thanks

Don’t listen to the whining on here. Some people are never happy.
expect about 30,000+ USD a month + a 4 bedroom apartment in town. All kids education paid for. Time to Jumbo command about two and a half years.
Atmosphere is great, no industrial talk, expect to party with the cabin crew on numerous overnights. Great hotels. Fantastic rosters with lifestyle options other airlines can only dream of. The base of your choice probably about 3 years down the line and you can remain on base with absolute security. Strict adherence to local law is observed.
Super management with a safety orientated, powerful vision for the future.
Great package ( especially for new joiners, POS18 is fantastic) Great career airline. Clever articulate GM’s and directors. The GMA is amazing and you couldn’t ask for better leadership, especially from our parent group. We also have a great union, but not really needed because of quality management.
Fantastic annual bonus formula. (Huge this year)
whats not to like?
Of course the usual suspects will appear with nothing but complaints, ignore them. Judge for yourself.

[Scoreboard]

Hello!

I was wondering if anybody had information on the DEFO interview, or will be attending in May.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,


have a pulse.....they are parking jets....

[Scoreboard]

Don’t listen to the whining on here. Some people are never happy.
expect about 30,000+ USD a month + a 4 bedroom apartment in town. All kids education paid for. Time to Jumbo command about two and a half years.
Atmosphere is great, no industrial talk, expect to party with the cabin crew on numerous overnights. Great hotels. Fantastic rosters with lifestyle options other airlines can only dream of. The base of your choice probably about 3 years down the line and you can remain on base with absolute security. Strict adherence to local law is observed.
Super management with a safety orientated, powerful vision for the future.
Great package ( especially for new joiners, POS18 is fantastic) Great career airline. Clever articulate GM’s and directors. The GMA is amazing and you couldn’t ask for better leadership, especially from our parent group. We also have a great union, but not really needed because of quality management.
Fantastic annual bonus formula. (Huge this year)
whats not to like?
Of course the usual suspects will appear with nothing but complaints, ignore them. Judge for yourself.



sarcasm i hope because thats all bull****.

[Fly747]

Well spotted Scoreboard. You're on the ball today.

[Scoreboard]

Well spotted Scoreboard. You're on the ball today.


well he is logged from Venezuela...so unsure he had been drinking koolaid while doing his interview?


but ok "smack"

[petrichor]

So I see that Cathay is doing direct entry FOs if you have 1000+ airline hours. Does that mean when second officers upgrade they'll keep pushing me down in seniority or is each position independent?

Amazing! Within a few responses the thread has disintegrated into a cesspit of personal abuse! If you’re thinking about joining, the responses seen here and elsewhere on Fragrant Harbour should give you an idea of the type of people you’ll be flying with. Luckily not all are like that, but the atmosphere is toxic in the extreme. And before anyone wades in with the old “the company started it” line, we are all supposed to be professionals and we are tasked with upholding the integrity of our profession, no one can take that from us. We are personally responsible for our behaviour irrespective of anonymity.

Flyincolo:
1.If appointed a seniority number, DEFOs etc cannot jump you on the list.
2. You do NOT get any choice of which fleet you join on. They may politely ask your preference but the ONLY time in your CX career that you get a choice is at command upgrade, nowhere in the CoS does it say otherwise.

Regards.

[Flyboy_SG]

Don’t listen to the whining on here. Some people are never happy.
expect about 30,000+ USD a month + a 4 bedroom apartment in town. All kids education paid for. Time to Jumbo command about two and a half years.
Atmosphere is great, no industrial talk, expect to party with the cabin crew on numerous overnights. Great hotels. Fantastic rosters with lifestyle options other airlines can only dream of. The base of your choice probably about 3 years down the line and you can remain on base with absolute security. Strict adherence to local law is observed.
Super management with a safety orientated, powerful vision for the future.
Great package ( especially for new joiners, POS18 is fantastic) Great career airline. Clever articulate GM’s and directors. The GMA is amazing and you couldn’t ask for better leadership, especially from our parent group. We also have a great union, but not really needed because of quality management.
Fantastic annual bonus formula. (Huge this year)
whats not to like?
Of course the usual suspects will appear with nothing but complaints, ignore them. Judge for yourself.





30,000 USD per year I guess....

[AQIS Boigu]

... but the ONLY time in your CX career that you get a choice is at command upgrade, nowhere in the CoS does it say otherwise.

Regards.

This option disappeared over 5 years ago when PH was the GMA - ask a 747 FO

The fleet you are given on day one can determine your entire career and overtime in CX - ask a 777 pilot

[Natca]

Considering they have only found 2 defos stupid enough to join on cos18 and are putting them on the 747 (for life) I can see why not one in the right mind would come. Its a temp job at the most for those who came in cos08, probably half of those who are left (several training fails, downgrades, and resignations) are named and shamed every time they set foot by a JFO or SO.