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FODPlod
20th Mar 2017, 13:12
My eye was caught on another forum by a recent response to a Freedom of Information request about an expedition to install a flat space on Rockall for the erection of an all-round light in 1971. The original poster has given me his blessing to share it and the linked, well-illustrated report may be of interest:
(https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/599002/Report_on_Operational_Top_Hat_government_expedition_to_Rocka ll_in_1970.pdf)FOI response 13 Feb 2017 - Exercise TOP (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/599002/Report_on_Operational_Top_Hat_government_expedition_to_Rocka ll_in_1970.pdf)HAT 1971 (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/599002/Report_on_Operational_Top_Hat_government_expedition_to_Rocka ll_in_1970.pdf)
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z412/Anonymouse365/RNAS%20Rockall.jpg

chevvron
21st Mar 2017, 12:02
I know of another rock elsewhere in the world which was 'claimed' by the Royal Navy. It's called 'HMS Diamond Rock' and is still considered to be a commisioned vessel; RN ships will dip their flags in salute as they pass it.

Fareastdriver
21st Mar 2017, 14:18
Another protrusion from the Earth called Lumatan had a similar treatment in 1966. The was a hill in North Borneo that was being used as a rebro station by the army. It was difficult to get at so the decision was made to clear the top for a helipad.
The Ghurkha Engineers went in and the Officer, an ex South African mining engineer sliced the top off like topping an egg. The result was perfect and everybody was happy.

Some time later the a Royal Engineers survey party pitched up wanted to go to the top of Lumatan. The reason was that they needed to do some map work and Lumatan was the main trig point for southern Sabah.

The whole of Borneo had sunk about eight feet.

Heathrow Harry
21st Mar 2017, 14:50
Brilliant move - we were able to snaffle zillions of sq kms west of Shetland into our Economic Zone - fish, oil & gas........

any similarities with reefs in the S China Sea is purely co-incidental.............

Dryce
21st Mar 2017, 17:11
Brilliant move - we were able to snaffle zillions of sq kms west of Shetland into our Economic Zone - fish, oil & gas........

any similarities with reefs in the S China Sea is purely co-incidental.............

The UK hasn't used Rockall to aggressively extend its EEZ in the way that China has extended its claims to just about the whole of the South China see.

So there isn't much similarity and therefore not much that can be coicidental.

Of course the UK could learn a lesson and follow China's lead and extend it's EEZ across the North Sea to the continent - out to the shores of Iceland and the RoI - and then into the Baltic.

Tankertrashnav
21st Mar 2017, 17:41
Crossing the pond Westward on the Victor (and the Vulcan I assume) the nav radar always tried to get a final fix on Rockall, as it was the last chance before you coasted in over Canada. I was never quite sure if I had found it on the H2S - the thing to do was to tell the plotter confidently that you had, and that he could trust the fix!

Innominate
21st Mar 2017, 17:45
Those of a certain age may remember the songs of Michael Flanders and Donald Swann, including one about the RN's planting a flag on Rockall in the 1950s. It included the lines:
We sailed acros the planet
To find this lump of granite;
One rather startled gannet;
In fact we found - Rock All!

I see what they meant...

Fareastdriver
21st Mar 2017, 19:37
My father told me that when they flew around the Atlantic on Bismuths, (weather reconnaissance flights) during the war Rockall was the only opportunity for the gunners to practise with their guns.

Trim Stab
21st Mar 2017, 20:15
I am surprised to see the "Fly Navy" slogan in use in 1971 - anybody know when exactly it originated?

alfred_the_great
21st Mar 2017, 21:13
I know of another rock elsewhere in the world which was 'claimed' by the Royal Navy. It's called 'HMS Diamond Rock' and is still considered to be a commisioned vessel; RN ships will dip their flags in salute as they pass it.

Do we? Where is it?

Aerials
21st Mar 2017, 21:22
About here! https://goo.gl/maps/Cp9F8xSjPzr

212man
21st Mar 2017, 21:44
Reminds me of the (possibly apochryphal) PA announcemt by a BA captain on a transatlantic flight around the time it was in the news (Tom Mclean living there I assume). "Those on the left hand side of the aircraft can see Rockall, those on the right can see something similar".

John Eacott
21st Mar 2017, 22:13
I am surprised to see the "Fly Navy" slogan in use in 1971 - anybody know when exactly it originated?

It originated with the USN, and migrated to the RN in the mid/late 60s. The USN stickers were smart, professional vinyl with pull-off protection for the adhesive back. The RN managed paper strips with lick and stick adhesive at each end, much like the postage stamps, and the adhesive was on the printed side so the 'Fly Navy' was put on the inside of a window or car screen.

At one late 1960s Farnborough the Bucc flypast included opening (rotating) the bomb bay to show a massive day-glo red "FLY NAVY" to the crowd :ok:

tartare
21st Mar 2017, 22:19
I think you lot should start pouring sand and concrete around Rockall to increase it's size.
Perhaps build a port, even an airfield.
Install some anti-aircraft missiles... ;)

Heathrow Harry
22nd Mar 2017, 15:44
"The UK hasn't used Rockall to aggressively extend its EEZ"

True but it was still amajor bargaining chip....

ited Kingdom

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Rockall_Union_flag_hoisted_1955.jpg/170px-Rockall_Union_flag_hoisted_1955.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rockall_Union_flag_hoisted_1955.jpg)

Lieutenant Commander Desmond Scott hoists the Union Flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag) in 1955


The UK claims Rockall along with a 12-nautical-mile (22 km; 14 mi) territorial sea around the islet inside the country's exclusive economic zone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone) (EEZ).[59] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-whatdotheyknow-59) The UK also claims "a circle of UK sovereign airspace over the islet of Rockall".[59] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-whatdotheyknow-59)
The UK annexed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexed) Rockall on 18 September 1955 when "Two Royal Marines and a civilian naturalist, led by Royal Navy officer Lieutenant Commander Desmond Scott, raised a Union flag on the island and cemented a plaque into the rock".[60] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-60) In 1972, the British Island of Rockall Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Rockall_Act_1972) formally annexed Rockall to the United Kingdom. The UK considers the island administratively part of the Isle of Harris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris,_Outer_Hebrides) and, under the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Adjacent_Waters_Boundaries_Order_1999) a large sea area around it was declared to be under the jurisdiction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisdiction) of Scots law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_law). A navigational beacon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_beacon) was installed on the island in 1982 and the UK declared that no ship would be allowed within a 50-mile (80 km) radius of the rock.[61] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-61) However, in 1997, the UK ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), limiting territorial sea claims to a 12-nautical-mile, or 14 mile (22 km), radius, and therefore allowing free passage in waters beyond this.
A territorial claim could form the basis for an extended EEZ. However, in 1988, the United Kingdom and Ireland signed an EEZ boundary agreement for which "the location of Rockall was irrelevant to the determination of the boundary".[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-EEZ-2) In 1997, the UK ratified UNCLOS, which states that "Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf".
As the rock lies within the United Kingdom's EEZ, the UK has exclusive rights and obligations in relation to the exploitation, conservation and management of the rock itself.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-legislation.gov.uk-4)
Ireland

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rockall%2C_Irish_EEZ.png/170px-Rockall%2C_Irish_EEZ.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rockall,_Irish_EEZ.png)

The position of Rockall (centre of grey disc) with respect to the claimed Irish EEZ.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-irishstatutebook.ie-5)


Irish claims to Rockall have been based on its proximity to the Irish mainland,[62] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-Symmons.2C_1993.2C_35-62) however the country has never formally claimed sovereignty over the rock. Ireland formally rejected the British territorial claim to Rockall, "which would be the basis for a claim to a 12-mile territorial sea".[63] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-Volume453-63)
Ireland regards Rockall as irrelevant when determining the boundaries of the Exclusive Economic Zones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_Economic_Zone) (EEZ) as the rock is uninhabitable.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-EEZ-2)[64] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-TrevesPineschi1997-64)[65] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-Volume384-65) In signing the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) in 1997, the UK has agreed that "Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf".
In 1988, Ireland and the United Kingdom signed an EEZ boundary agreement, ignoring the rock per UNCLOS.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-EEZ-2) With effect from 31 March 2014, the UK and Ireland published EEZ limits which include Rockall within the UK's EEZ.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-legislation.gov.uk-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-irishstatutebook.ie-5)
In October 2012, the Irish Independent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Independent) published a picture of the Irish Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Naval_Service) ship Róisín (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%89_R%C3%B3is%C3%ADn_%28P51%29) sailing past Rockall conducting routine maritime security patrols, and claimed that it was exercising Ireland's sovereign rights over the rock.[66] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-66) In 2014 the OSI survey of Irish Territorial waters included the Rockall bank.[67] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall#cite_note-67)