Some questions regarding Panavia Tornado parts including CSAS control unit

[Jayviator]

Lately I have been collecting parts of Tornados, so far I have acquired a weapons control panel (WCP2) and what is described as a fairing assembly, which is the first part of the tail fin with a black strip of neoprene (I would be interested to know the purpose of that) and also there is an oval shaped hole at the front end of that it looks like something may have fitted into that area as there are screw holes all around it. This part was removed from ZG714.

I am now awaiting delivery of another Tornado part, which is the CSAS control unit from the pilots port console,
I have noticed that there seems to be 2 different versions of this, mine seems to be the least common. The one I can find most pictures of shows it having grey rectangular windows with legends such as Air Data, Roll MD etc these would have illuminated red or amber in the event of a failure of one of those systems.

The one I have is otherwise identical apart from it does not have those grey rectangles with the legends written in them, instead they are replaced by black squares, the info about which square relates to a particular system is written text above the square and I would guess that if a failure occurred the corresponding black square would illuminate.

I am wondering if this particular version was the original unit or if it was the one that replaced the other ones, the only image I have found so far which shows this particular version in the cockpit is in a Tornado F3 http://www.jetartaviation.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/f3-cockpit/tornado-f3-cockpit-6.jpg there does seem to be a slight difference in that particular one as the switch gaurd looks like it is white with black diagonal bars, the one I am getting is yellow with black diagonal bars and that seems to be the standard colour on all CSAS control units, but I don't think they were unique to the F3 as I know that the aircraft mine came from was a GR4 (ZA462).

I would like to know more about the CSAS, such as was this something unique to the Tornado, I think it is a fly by wire system which other planes do use but perhaps they just called it CSAS for the Tornado? was it vital to the operation of the Tornado?

Hope someone can help answer a few of these questions.

Cheers

[Megaton]

An informed guess would be that the neoprene was added to prevent erosion of the fin leading edge. We used to use the same technique on the Jag in the late eighties and early nineties.

[Dark Helmet]

Some pictures might help us.
The oval hole will be where the ice detector was fitted. The black strip is probably the special coating for the HF notch aerial.

CSAS is the FBW system and means Command Stability Augmentation System. Unique to the Tornado. It also has a mechanical back-up system to the tailerons in the event of a total CSAS failure.

[SCP_sweng]

Try:
Tornado CSAS Control Unit (space model) :: Rochester Avionic Archives (http://rochesteravionicarchives.co.uk/collection/flight-control/tornado-csas-control-unit)

[glad rag]

Ram Air for vent package=hole
It's quite a complex unit dual mode mechanical redundancy too.
It's also a pia to test.

[Just This Once...]

The CSAS panel, along with most of the cockpit, went through a few lighting changes. The original backlighting was rather dim under bright sunlight so the panel was redesigned with much brighter captions. With early NVG modifications some of these panels changed to a black background with illuminated green captions. Later NVG cockpits returned to the use of colour captions with appropriate filtering to remove the NVG-unfriendly wavelengths.

The GR4 update standardised most of the cockpit lighting again with NVG compatibility a key requirement. Of course, the frequent stirring around of LRUs and fleets-within-fleets made the cockpit lighting a bit of a lottery, especially in the mid to late 90's.

They never renamed the pre-flight test switch though, presumably through optimism.

[2Planks]

Ahhh CSAS and the dark arts of a test. I'm sure I never really understood it, don't tell STANEVAL

[reds & greens]

Keep your eyes out for some 10deg micro-switches, you'll need plenty of them if you're working the CSAS.
And, lord help you if you get the STRAT5 test box, it cooked my swede on many a night shift...

[EGNH Flyer]

I believe the CSAS in the early model Tornado had some serious issues. If one waggled the stick enough one could effectively 'beat the system' causing a lag between control surface movement and stick input. Someone even wrote a book about the phenomenon whereby a fictitious aircraft (substitute Tornado with Tempest!) had the same problem, to the point they had one at the factory on jacks trying to replicate the problem.

The story alluded to the fact that the Saudis were about to purchase the aircraft and therefore the problem was kept quiet so as not to damage sales. Fact or fiction?

[just another jocky]

Has nobody ever heard of Google?

[Jayviator]

Hi, thank you Gladrag and Just this once, for helping with my questions. just to clarify that i already had an idea what CSAS was as I have looked it up, but my questions were more specifically about the type of CSAS unit I will be getting and how it differs from the other versions, of which there seems to be more photos of, Just this once has helped a bit with that so I know at least that mine was a later version, but if I understood correct they were replaced again. I am a bit confused now about some of the terminology used, such as NVG and LRU. I wonder if it will be possible to find out what sort of time frame mine unit was fitted, based on what version it was. The other 2 parts I got came with some paperwork which said when they were removed, and what base they were removed at and some other info but there was no mention oif paperwork with this unit I am getting, the only info I have is what the reg of the aircraft was it came from.
I shall post some pics up once I get it.

[Jayviator]

NVG = Night vision goggles?
LRU = Line replaceable unit?

[jonw66]

Laser ranging unit?
Maybe yours is from the upgrade to GR4 in the nineties.

[EAP86]

Probably Line Replaceable Unit. I think the Tornado originally came with the LRMTS (Laser Ranger Marked Target Seeker, in a fairing under the front fuse) and the GR4 upgrade brought in NVGs and FLIR (in another fairing next to the LRMTS).

EAP

[Harley Quinn]

Probably Line Replaceable Unit. I think the Tornado originally came with the LRMTS (Laser Ranger Marked Target Seeker, in a fairing under the front fuse) and the GR4 upgrade brought in NVGs and FLIR (in another fairing next to the LRMTS).

EAP

Certainly LRU is Line Replacement Unit. The LRMTS was incorporated as Mod 00080? on the very earliest UK Tornados, I remember seeing a Civilian Working Party doing the task in the early 80s. It became part of the build standard around batch 2 or 3 I guess and continued from there. German and Italian aircraft didn't have it.

[Jayviator]

I have since added a AFDS control unit to my collection and my latest pride and joy is a throttle quadrant.
Unfortunately it did not have any paperwork so i do not know the registration number of the aircraft it came from, and I don't know what variant it is from, all I do know is it's from a tornado!
I think I know what most of the controls do on this, the wing sweep lever, throttle levers flap controls and taxi thrust lever are all obvious, but I found a few other controls, switches and latches that I did not know what they did, I got some answers from a tornado flight sim (assuming all the details are correct) the latches at the rear of the throttles stop them being accidentally put into HP SHUT. the pyramid shaped button/switch thing on the right throttle lever is the control for airbrakes and manouver flaps (whatever they are) but I discovered a few other things which are not mentioned, underneath the airbrakes pyramid type switch is another push button. on each of the throttle levers there are 2 small metal push button things on the front and back. on the left throttle is a metal switch which moves to the upper right to lower left position, you can see that switch in one of the images. and also again on the left throttle lever is a rotating thing.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2855/33823162356_1dd0aedd3f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TwQxME)Unknown controls on tornado throttle levers (https://flic.kr/p/TwQxME) by Jason Evans (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145547634@N04/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2891/33862748555_229dce8979_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TAkrok)Tornado throttle box 2 (https://flic.kr/p/TAkrok) by Jason Evans (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145547634@N04/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3816/33862742775_2d921b514c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TAkpEF)Tornado throttle box 3 (https://flic.kr/p/TAkpEF) by Jason Evans (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145547634@N04/), on Flickr

[Vendee]

IIRC the buttons on the rear of each power lever are the relight buttons for that engine.

[Jayviator]

Oh, so not the latches to stop inadvertent selection of HP shut? I think I broke my new toy :-( I was playing with it earlier and I was annoyed that the flap lever was stuck in the up position and also the wing sweep lever didn't have the full range of movement. On the tornado flight sim page whoich does explain in quite good detail about the throttle controls it says the wing sweep lever and the flaps selector are mechanically linked so that lowering the flaps cannot happen unless the wings are fully forward, but I could not push the lever fully forward, well eventually i manged to, i think that little bit set into the lever has to be squeezed in to move it and it was a bit stiff but with some effort i finally managed to get the lever to move fully forward, and sure enough i was then able to operate the flap lever, trouble is now i moved it into the down position it is jammed, i can move it to the mid position but no further, and as such the wing sweep lever is stuck in the forward position. I wish I left it how it was because at least then I could move the wing sweep lever more than i can now.

[Jayviator]

I fixed it! I got a small injury though, there was a sharp little bit of metal on the flap selector and I rocked the lever back and forth between down and mid a couple of times, using a bit of force and suddenly it just clicked forward to the up position, then I looked down to see blood all over my hands but it wasn't as bad as it first looked! I managed to flatten out that little metal snag as well so that shouldn't cause any problems anymore, but I will probably leave the flap lever alone now, i still want to be able to push the throttle levers to max reheat and combat but they seem to stop at max dry, again maybe it will take a bit of force to push them forward. I wondered if any of the buttons or switches I have yet to find out what they do, if they have to be pressed to allow the throttles to move forward past max dry.

[Bicster]

Have you tried rocking the thrust levers to the side to get from max dry into reheat?

[gamecock]

Have you tried rocking the thrust levers to the side to get from max dry into reheat?

Well you can try.......

The HP cock latches are fixed at the rear of the throttle box. The relight switches are the round buttons on the back of each throttle lever.

the wing sweep lever and the flaps selector are mechanically linked so that lowering the flaps cannot happen unless the wings are fully forward

A combination of Swiss cheese and good old techie ingenuity still resulted in at least two flap to fuselage incidents at St Athan! There but for the grace of god....

[Jayviator]

I have tried that, maybe I am not using enough force but I don't want to force it to much in case I break anything. There is some corrosion so it might be a bit weak in some places. I also need to construct some kind of rig which can support it allowing free movement of the throttles and wing sweep, as how it is resting at the moment the throttles can't be moved.

[EAP86]

Doesn't rocking the thrust levers outboard engage the thrust reverse? Reheat is just the last sector of normal throttle movement.

EAP

[frodo_monkey]

Left throttle outboard = lift dump, right throttle outboard = thrust reverse.

There is a bit of a gate between max dry and the reheat range, but they should go through without too much force.

[Lima Juliet]

Can't remember which but one of the front round switches on the Pilots' Demand Levers (often called throttles incorrectly - but remember this is a fly by wire jet) was 'Target Acquisistiion Enable' (TAE) for the Sidewinder. The rocker switch on the side was forward for front radio, backwards for rear radio and in for both...again IIRC. It's been a while and I need to sit in one to get reacquainted!

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

PS. You only rocked the throttles on the F4 to get reheat...

[Bicster]

So the snag must be with the linkages in the throttle box itself? I hope you find a solution and keep posting.

[gr4techie]

There's like a gate or indent between max dry and reheat. You need to put the throttles to max dry against the lock, then throttle back a bit, then push forwards again an they go through the lock.
The hole on the fin leading edge panel might be an air intake used for pressurising / purging the fin fuel tank

A combination of Swiss cheese and good old techie ingenuity still resulted in at least two flap to fuselage incidents at St Athan!
There's an electrical plug for a feedback system that stops the wingsweep at the angle selected on the throttle box. If you disconnected this electrical plug, applied hydraulics and then move the wingsweep lever, then the wings will keep on moving (it has no feedback telling the actuator when to stop) and if the flaps are down they will crush into the side of the fuselage. Just rear of the throttle box there's an electrical push button to select the size of the external fuel tanks, with "big jugs" fitted the wing sweep was limited.
25, 45 and 63 degrees rings a bell ?

[Just This Once...]

There is an interlock that prevents the thrust levers being pushed into the reheat range with reverse thrust (levers rocked outboard) selected. It has been known for this not to fully retract when in the normal range and your example may be damaged or out of adjustment.

[Exrigger]

The interlock between the wing sweep lever and Flap lever in the throttle box was mechanical, the exception was the manoeuvre Switch, however the control mechanism covering that relied on the feedback shafts between the flap/slat drive unit and the wing sweep actuators to the High lift and Wing Sweep Control Unit, all instances of the Flaps going into the side of the fuselage were due to the FSDU to HLWSCU feedback shafts not being connected, so the electrical position indicator on the RH side of the HLWSCU would have no idea of the incorrect positions so the electrical/hydraulic interlock would also not engage. If memory serves the first one occurred at Cottesmore, the second at Marham (might be the other way around) and I don’t recall a St Athan one and both the flaps were down but the lever had been moved to the up position whilst power was off, with power supplied the wing sweep lever was able to be moved as the mechanical interlock was not engaged.

High lift devices A three-section slat is installed in the wing leading edge. Each slat section is equipped with two tracks which slide over rollers fitted to the wing leading edge. The three sections are mechanically linked to each other and are moved by four screw jacks. A four-section double-slotted flap is fitted along the full trailing edge of each wing. Each section consists of a main vane and a leading edge vane fixed to the main vane. The actuation system is comprised of eight screw jacks, two for each vane. The actuation system is driven by units located in the centre fuselage, which is powered by four hydraulic motors – two motors driving the flap system and two driving the slat system. Hydraulic power is supplied by both hydraulics systems, each powering one slat and one flap motor. When a hydraulic failure occurs, the motors powered by the functioning system are still able to drive both flaps and slats to their full travel. As long as the wings are selected fully forward, the flaps lever may be moved to any of its three positions (UP, MID and DOWN). In addition to the UP, MID and DOWN positions, the flaps and slats can be extended to a manoeuvre position. With the wings swept to 25° the flaps can be extended to 7° and the slats to 11°. With the wings swept to 45° the slats can be extended to 11°, whilst the flaps remain retracted. The manoeuvre flaps and slats are selected by operation of the combined airbrakes/ manoeuvre, flap/slat switch

[zero1]

The leading edge of the fin was the HF-SSB antenna that connect the HF feed to the airframe ( I would need to see a photo to confirm). The photo of the CSAS is standard together with the AFDS (autopilot).

[Lima Juliet]

In fact I remember now, the 'Target Acquisistiion Enable' (TAE) was the red button on the Stick Top on the top left next to the trim and the front right button on the throttle was to slave the Sidewinder head to the RADAR.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7MAAAOSw4DJYiKt-/s-l300.jpg

At the rear of the throttles are the relight switches - endless fun making these clacker when a sooty had their head down the intake!! If it has a toggle switch outboard of the left throttle - known as the "pinkie switch" because you operated it with your little finger then that was for chaff/flare.

LJ :ok:

[Fishtailed]

We'd just put loads of new FTI SUMS stuff on an ADV at Conningsby and it swept the wings with flaps down- didn't fly for years:{

Leon, that stick's never been in an aircraft:8


Jayviator, have you got an NHC?

[Bicster]

Just a thought, looking at some of the screws/bolts on the throttle box there seems to be quite a bit of rust and corrosion. If any moisture has made it down into the gaps (which I think it may well have done) then you might be looking at seized components. Something like GT-85 or WD-40 squirted in and left to soak overnight might free things up or if that doesnt work a strip down and some heat applied may free everything up. As I said, just a thought.

[gamecock]

all instances of the Flaps going into the side of the fuselage were due to the FSDU to HLWSCU feedback shafts not being connected

Exactly what happened at Saints (and Coningsby by the sounds of it!)

electrical position indicator on the RH side of the HLWSCU

E-box?

[2Planks]

Leon, I stand to be corrected but when I went through the OCU I think the throttles were referred to as Pilot Demand Transmitters (PDTs). Clearly throttles was a much more user friendly term.


Too many years on Batemans may have interfered with the neurones.


Rest assured I do not iron my socks!

[57mm]

2Planks, I'm with you. I remember us former F4 mates being told this in groundschool and collectively going "say whaaaaaat?"

[Just This Once...]

The GR1 aircraft documents called them throttles; called the stick a stick too. Presumably this was known as Pilot Demand Left/Right/Up/Down Transmitters on the F3?

Stick fully aft and into spin....

[57mm]

Even worse on the Tiff, where the control column is referred to as the SSICA, short for Stick Sensor Interface Control Assembly.......

[Lima Juliet]

2planks/57mm

You may be right. I seem to remember my groundschool instructors were G+10, T+8, Gordon Allen and Gay Horning and I'm sure they called them Pilots' Demand Levers or PDLs for short. This was the rig that they used to teach us with:

http://i64.tinypic.com/6syvls.jpg

These are now in the Tattershall Thorpe - Thorpe Camp Visitors' Centre: http://thorpecamp.wixsite.com/visitorscentre

Well worth a visit for Tornado F3 memorabilia and other Coningsby/Woodhall Spa stuff. :ok:

LJ

[Jayviator]

We'd just put loads of new FTI SUMS stuff on an ADV at Conningsby and it swept the wings with flaps down- didn't fly for years:{

Leon, that stick's never been in an aircraft:8


Jayviator, have you got an NHC?

I don't have a NHC, what is that?

[Jayviator]

Well, I followed what GR4techie said and guess what? it worked! so now I can put them into the max reheat position, combat is another matter, the same technique does not seem to work but I am not to bothered about that, I am happy to have it in max reheat.
Thank you GR4techie for that most helpful info!
I am still curious about those other controls on the throttles though!

[Jayviator]

The leading edge of the fin was the HF-SSB antenna that connect the HF feed to the airframe ( I would need to see a photo to confirm). The photo of the CSAS is standard together with the AFDS (autopilot).

What would you need to see in the photo? in regards to the CSAS being standard it does look different to all the other images i have found of CSAS units, as it just has black square switch lights compared to the rectangular indicators with readable data on them, as was suggested this is probably a slightly different design for use with night vision goggles but i would like to find other images which are of the same type as mine.

[Photoplanet]

Well, I followed what GR4techie said and guess what? it worked! so now I can put them into the max reheat position, combat is another matter, the same technique does not seem to work but I am not to bothered about that, I am happy to have it in max reheat.
Thank you GR4techie for that most helpful info!
I am still curious about those other controls on the throttles though!

-For Combat, is it not required to lift the throttle at its forward limit, then push it forward further? It has been many years since I worked on the Tornado F3 at Leuchars, but lifting the throttle lever seems to ring a bell...

[60024]

-For Combat, is it not required to lift the throttle at its forward limit, then push it forward further? It has been many years since I worked on the Tornado F3 at Leuchars, but lifting the throttle lever seems to ring a bell...


Not in the GR1/4. Leon mentioned rocking a switch on the end of the throttles to select which radio, but that wasn't the case with the GR, the sector is on the stick.

The red button on the stick top when fitted to the GR was (is) the bomb release button.

[KenV]

I remember back in my early engineering days studying the Tornado's CSAS, It's an analog fly by wire system with mechanical reversion in the pitch plane. It was a marvel of analog engineering with a lot of fail tolerant/graceful degradation and analog voting to eliminate transients and nuisance warnings. Douglas had a similar but not nearly as elegant system they called Stability and Control Augmentation System which was used on the YC-15 prototype and was the baseline for the C-17 design before they switched to a digital quadruplex fly-by-wire system during the middle of the C-17's development.

And you might try lifting the throttle handles to move them to the "combat" position.

[Onceapilot]

KenV
The Tonka was a joy! FBW and fully integrated TFR Nav/Attack. :D
A strange thing with the T.Birds is that they seem to have a different pitch response from the rear seat control input. Certainly, I found that circuit work from the back seat of the T.Bird required a greater degree of finesse to avoid a stable PIO. ;) A regular thing was the combination of degraded system approaches for training. A back seat, 67 wing, mech-mode, PAR was a good one!:ok: Of course, rollers (touch and go) from the rear are fun with no forward visibilty, as is demo dive/strafe, in the old jets with no forward sighting!

OAP

[Just This Once...]

Ahh yes, the joys of backseat strafe - a careful selection of canopy rivet vs bush of the day.

[Onceapilot]

Ahh yes, the joys of backseat strafe - a careful selection of canopy rivet vs bush of the day. ;):D

OAP

[Dark Helmet]

I never realised that the system was actually regularly degraded to Mech Mode in flight. I thought it was a last resort and was a pig to fly in that mode!

[Onceapilot]

I never realised that the system was actually regularly degraded to Mech Mode in flight. I thought it was a last resort and was a pig to fly in that mode!

Yes, BTR training requirement. It was deemed worth the practice. Not used for routine flying about. :)

OAP

[engineer(retard)]

I heard Mech mode described as flying a whale

[Timelord]

Ah well, The CSAS could be degraded in flight to TRAINING Mech Mode which was not as bad as full Mech Mode. That was only practiced in the sim.

[Onceapilot]

Timelord
As I recall, the "training" entry into mech mode allowed the full up and running CSAS system to provide the mech mode system functionality, while keeping the CSAS system still powered but not contributing anything more than mech mode. This allowed the CSAS to remain effectively undisturbed although, as I understood it, giving mech mode function. I do not recall a "not as bad as" factor? Can you refresh me?:ok:

OAP

[Timelord]

I think that you still have the rudder in Training Mech Mode whereas genuine Mech mode is just the tailerons.

[frodo_monkey]

^ yep, hence 20kt x-wind limit for trg mech mode and 10kt limit for real.

[KenV]

I'm confused by some of the later posts on "mech mode". I never flew a Tornado but my understanding of the system was that only the pitch plane had mechanical reversion. Is "mech mode" something different?

[Just This Once...]

Mech mode is mechanical control rods (complete with disconnects and crushable strut) between the stick and the tailerons, so providing roll and pitch. Normally the roll axis is augmented by spoilers so the reversion to mech mode looses some roll authority well as the rudder.

[Onceapilot]

Great replies Guys. :ok: I always thought the CSAS was a very good system. Apart from BITE failures, it was very reliable. I think I only had one or two minor in-flight degrades in nearly 1500 hours. :ok:

OAP

[gamecock]

Speaking as someone who spent many hours rigging the mechanical run, can anyone tell me if there was there ever a consideration to make Tornado fully FBW? Given the reliability of the quadruplex system, was it an opportunity missed to remove all mechanical runs?

[EAP86]

The CSAS was very good for 60s technology but was far too complex and had too high a parts count to be truly reliable. A modern FBW system would have addressed these issues but it would have been almost impossible to justify the cost versus the limited benefits. The Luftwaffe were considering a proper upgrade as part of their efforts to achieve their 2030 OSD. I've no idea whether this is still the case.

EAP

[insty66]

The CSAS was very good for 60s technology but was far too complex and had too high a parts count to be truly reliable. A modern FBW system would have addressed these issues but it would have been almost impossible to justify the cost versus the limited benefits. The Luftwaffe were considering a proper upgrade as part of their efforts to achieve their 2030 OSD. I've no idea whether this is still the case.

EAP

I was AV on Tornado for over 20 years and I can't remember a jet return in Mech Mode once, in that respect CSAS was exceptionally reliable. Minor failures were more common but it was the GMR that caused the most pain in my experience. Thank god for 12 sided dice:E

As for conversion, the cost would surely have been the major stopper.

[EAP86]

I wouldn't disagree by that measure of reliability but how many sorties were lost due to BITE failures and how much time was spent diagnosing and fixing component failures?

EAP

[insty66]

I wouldn't disagree by that measure of reliability but how many sorties were lost due to BITE failures and how much time was spent diagnosing and fixing component failures?

EAP

Fair point but you could say that about all the other technology on it. MECUs, PDUs, etc. etc. all of their time.

Wherever we could, CSAS BIT was carried out post sortie, so the loss rate would probably be lower than you'd think. I always thought it was overtested but getting the intervals stretched out was never considered

[Onceapilot]

Wherever we could, CSAS BIT was carried out post sortie, so the loss rate would probably be lower than you'd think. I always thought it was overtested but getting the intervals stretched out was never considered

Pre flight CSAS BITE fail did cost a lot of sorties in the past. Later, IIRC it was reduced from every pre flight to every 10th. As you say, doing it post flight 9 was better. However, you could always bank on getting a jet that some ****er had forgotten to check! :mad:

OAP

[Fishtailed]

I don't have a NHC, what is that?

Like, er, this-


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f280/fishtailed/IMG_0626_zpsjnbiafmg.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/fishtailed/media/IMG_0626_zpsjnbiafmg.jpg.html)


Jayviator, Didn't you know the Tonka had a back seat, it houses the Boss, with the chauffer up front:E:;)

[Red Line Entry]

The souvenir I most wanted from the Tornado was the mechanical 'mixer' unit that converted the left/right and up/down demand from the stick into mechanical rod inputs to the 2 tailerons (so both deflect in the same direction for pitch and deflect in opposite directions for roll). The unit was about 12 inches long in each direction and was a wonderfully ingenious mechanical device. Anyone got a pic?

[threeputt]

Where's the GMR? Never had a NHC with that many buttons on a real Tornado so it must be from an F3!

3P

[Dark Helmet]

threeputt: I thought that as well. Never saw one that complicated!

RedLineEntry: Ah yes! It was a superb piece of mechanics. Best not mention the crushable struts though!

It all brings back horrible memories of the hell-hole that was Zone 19!

[Just This Once...]

Where's the GMR? Never had a NHC with that many buttons on a real Tornado so it must be from an F3!

3P

Looks like a German IDS, albeit with a bit missing, so some of it will bring back some memories for you. The old CRPMD has been pensioned off the GR4 too.

[just another jocky]

-For Combat, is it not required to lift the throttle at its forward limit, then push it forward further? It has been many years since I worked on the Tornado F3 at Leuchars, but lifting the throttle lever seems to ring a bell...



Nope. Dry range to reheat range is a simple push-through restriction (probably ball bearing?) and reheat to combat is the same. There's no lifting, rocking, retarding slightly or anything, just push the throttles forwards.

[Timelord]

GR4s have a hand controller like that now. It can do all sorts of things to the Litening Pod as well as all the traditional stuff.

[Buster15]

Nope. Dry range to reheat range is a simple push-through restriction (probably ball bearing?) and reheat to combat is the same. There's no lifting, rocking, retarding slightly or anything, just push the throttles forwards.
Just for information, the difference between max reheat and combat is that when combat is selected, the TBT (actually SOT) limit is raised by 30k. This is sometimes confused with the war and peace switch which is different. The pilot can select combat as well as selecting the TBTRSS switch which is normally set to low and has a thin tell tale wire to show that the switch has been moved. The switch when selected further increases the SOT (stator outlet temperature). These temperature limits are set in the MECU as the engines are (normally) temperature controlled with TBT read by the optical pyrometer. Yes, the detents are ball bearings.

[KenV]

Just for information, the difference between max reheat and combat is that when combat is selected, the TBT (actually SOT) limit is raised by 30k.Wait, what?!!! Raised by 30 thousand degrees!!! That's over 5 times hotter than the sun!

Oh, 30K! (as in Kelvin). I had no idea Kelvin was used in any aircraft. Learn something new every day.

[Buster15]

Wait, what?!!! Raised by 30 thousand degrees!!! That's over 5 times hotter than the sun!

Oh, 30K! (as in Kelvin). I had no idea Kelvin was used in any aircraft. Learn something new every day..

It is 30K as in Kelvin. In jet engines it is normal for those rated by temperature to be defined in Kelvin. The prime reason being that the SOT (temperature) is a calculated value rather than a measured value. This is not to be confused with the measured downstream turbine blade (TBT) temperature which is expressed in Celsius.

[Fishtailed]

Never had a NHC with that many buttons on a real Tornado so it must be from an F3!Yep that’s right, it was developed for the ADV stage 2 weapons system enhancement in 1988.
GR4s have a hand controller like that now.Right again, tried to get MOD to install it on MLU back then but they waited 20 years until they could nick them out of ADVs.
Looks like a German IDSWrong, an Italian, they forked out for brand new INHCs for their upgrade.