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Some questions regarding Panavia Tornado parts including CSAS control unit

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Some questions regarding Panavia Tornado parts including CSAS control unit

Old 13th Mar 2017, 01:15
  #1 (permalink)  
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Some questions regarding Panavia Tornado parts including CSAS control unit

Lately I have been collecting parts of Tornados, so far I have acquired a weapons control panel (WCP2) and what is described as a fairing assembly, which is the first part of the tail fin with a black strip of neoprene (I would be interested to know the purpose of that) and also there is an oval shaped hole at the front end of that it looks like something may have fitted into that area as there are screw holes all around it. This part was removed from ZG714.

I am now awaiting delivery of another Tornado part, which is the CSAS control unit from the pilots port console,
I have noticed that there seems to be 2 different versions of this, mine seems to be the least common. The one I can find most pictures of shows it having grey rectangular windows with legends such as Air Data, Roll MD etc these would have illuminated red or amber in the event of a failure of one of those systems.

The one I have is otherwise identical apart from it does not have those grey rectangles with the legends written in them, instead they are replaced by black squares, the info about which square relates to a particular system is written text above the square and I would guess that if a failure occurred the corresponding black square would illuminate.

I am wondering if this particular version was the original unit or if it was the one that replaced the other ones, the only image I have found so far which shows this particular version in the cockpit is in a Tornado F3 http://www.jetartaviation.co.uk/wp-c...-cockpit-6.jpg there does seem to be a slight difference in that particular one as the switch gaurd looks like it is white with black diagonal bars, the one I am getting is yellow with black diagonal bars and that seems to be the standard colour on all CSAS control units, but I don't think they were unique to the F3 as I know that the aircraft mine came from was a GR4 (ZA462).

I would like to know more about the CSAS, such as was this something unique to the Tornado, I think it is a fly by wire system which other planes do use but perhaps they just called it CSAS for the Tornado? was it vital to the operation of the Tornado?

Hope someone can help answer a few of these questions.

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Old 13th Mar 2017, 10:04
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An informed guess would be that the neoprene was added to prevent erosion of the fin leading edge. We used to use the same technique on the Jag in the late eighties and early nineties.
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Old 13th Mar 2017, 10:12
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Some pictures might help us.
The oval hole will be where the ice detector was fitted. The black strip is probably the special coating for the HF notch aerial.

CSAS is the FBW system and means Command Stability Augmentation System. Unique to the Tornado. It also has a mechanical back-up system to the tailerons in the event of a total CSAS failure.
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Old 13th Mar 2017, 12:49
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Tornado CSAS Control Unit (space model) :: Rochester Avionic Archives
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Old 14th Mar 2017, 00:45
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Ram Air for vent package=hole
It's quite a complex unit dual mode mechanical redundancy too.
It's also a pia to test.
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Old 14th Mar 2017, 07:46
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The CSAS panel, along with most of the cockpit, went through a few lighting changes. The original backlighting was rather dim under bright sunlight so the panel was redesigned with much brighter captions. With early NVG modifications some of these panels changed to a black background with illuminated green captions. Later NVG cockpits returned to the use of colour captions with appropriate filtering to remove the NVG-unfriendly wavelengths.

The GR4 update standardised most of the cockpit lighting again with NVG compatibility a key requirement. Of course, the frequent stirring around of LRUs and fleets-within-fleets made the cockpit lighting a bit of a lottery, especially in the mid to late 90's.

They never renamed the pre-flight test switch though, presumably through optimism.
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Old 14th Mar 2017, 15:52
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Ahhh CSAS and the dark arts of a test. I'm sure I never really understood it, don't tell STANEVAL
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Old 14th Mar 2017, 16:54
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Keep your eyes out for some 10deg micro-switches, you'll need plenty of them if you're working the CSAS.
And, lord help you if you get the STRAT5 test box, it cooked my swede on many a night shift...
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Old 14th Mar 2017, 19:38
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I believe the CSAS in the early model Tornado had some serious issues. If one waggled the stick enough one could effectively 'beat the system' causing a lag between control surface movement and stick input. Someone even wrote a book about the phenomenon whereby a fictitious aircraft (substitute Tornado with Tempest!) had the same problem, to the point they had one at the factory on jacks trying to replicate the problem.

The story alluded to the fact that the Saudis were about to purchase the aircraft and therefore the problem was kept quiet so as not to damage sales. Fact or fiction?
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Old 14th Mar 2017, 21:10
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Has nobody ever heard of Google?
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Old 15th Mar 2017, 00:32
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Hi, thank you Gladrag and Just this once, for helping with my questions. just to clarify that i already had an idea what CSAS was as I have looked it up, but my questions were more specifically about the type of CSAS unit I will be getting and how it differs from the other versions, of which there seems to be more photos of, Just this once has helped a bit with that so I know at least that mine was a later version, but if I understood correct they were replaced again. I am a bit confused now about some of the terminology used, such as NVG and LRU. I wonder if it will be possible to find out what sort of time frame mine unit was fitted, based on what version it was. The other 2 parts I got came with some paperwork which said when they were removed, and what base they were removed at and some other info but there was no mention oif paperwork with this unit I am getting, the only info I have is what the reg of the aircraft was it came from.
I shall post some pics up once I get it.
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Old 15th Mar 2017, 00:38
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NVG = Night vision goggles?
LRU = Line replaceable unit?

Last edited by Jayviator; 15th Mar 2017 at 00:51.
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Old 15th Mar 2017, 01:50
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Laser ranging unit?
Maybe yours is from the upgrade to GR4 in the nineties.
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Old 15th Mar 2017, 22:04
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Probably Line Replaceable Unit. I think the Tornado originally came with the LRMTS (Laser Ranger Marked Target Seeker, in a fairing under the front fuse) and the GR4 upgrade brought in NVGs and FLIR (in another fairing next to the LRMTS).

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Old 15th Mar 2017, 22:40
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Originally Posted by EAP86 View Post
Probably Line Replaceable Unit. I think the Tornado originally came with the LRMTS (Laser Ranger Marked Target Seeker, in a fairing under the front fuse) and the GR4 upgrade brought in NVGs and FLIR (in another fairing next to the LRMTS).

Certainly LRU is Line Replacement Unit. The LRMTS was incorporated as Mod 00080? on the very earliest UK Tornados, I remember seeing a Civilian Working Party doing the task in the early 80s. It became part of the build standard around batch 2 or 3 I guess and continued from there. German and Italian aircraft didn't have it.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 23:26
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I have since added a AFDS control unit to my collection and my latest pride and joy is a throttle quadrant.
Unfortunately it did not have any paperwork so i do not know the registration number of the aircraft it came from, and I don't know what variant it is from, all I do know is it's from a tornado!
I think I know what most of the controls do on this, the wing sweep lever, throttle levers flap controls and taxi thrust lever are all obvious, but I found a few other controls, switches and latches that I did not know what they did, I got some answers from a tornado flight sim (assuming all the details are correct) the latches at the rear of the throttles stop them being accidentally put into HP SHUT. the pyramid shaped button/switch thing on the right throttle lever is the control for airbrakes and manouver flaps (whatever they are) but I discovered a few other things which are not mentioned, underneath the airbrakes pyramid type switch is another push button. on each of the throttle levers there are 2 small metal push button things on the front and back. on the left throttle is a metal switch which moves to the upper right to lower left position, you can see that switch in one of the images. and also again on the left throttle lever is a rotating thing.
[IMG]Unknown controls on tornado throttle levers by Jason Evans, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]Tornado throttle box 2 by Jason Evans, on Flickr[/IMG]

Tornado throttle box 3 by Jason Evans, on Flickr
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 06:45
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IIRC the buttons on the rear of each power lever are the relight buttons for that engine.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 12:00
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Oh, so not the latches to stop inadvertent selection of HP shut? I think I broke my new toy :-( I was playing with it earlier and I was annoyed that the flap lever was stuck in the up position and also the wing sweep lever didn't have the full range of movement. On the tornado flight sim page whoich does explain in quite good detail about the throttle controls it says the wing sweep lever and the flaps selector are mechanically linked so that lowering the flaps cannot happen unless the wings are fully forward, but I could not push the lever fully forward, well eventually i manged to, i think that little bit set into the lever has to be squeezed in to move it and it was a bit stiff but with some effort i finally managed to get the lever to move fully forward, and sure enough i was then able to operate the flap lever, trouble is now i moved it into the down position it is jammed, i can move it to the mid position but no further, and as such the wing sweep lever is stuck in the forward position. I wish I left it how it was because at least then I could move the wing sweep lever more than i can now.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 14:22
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I fixed it! I got a small injury though, there was a sharp little bit of metal on the flap selector and I rocked the lever back and forth between down and mid a couple of times, using a bit of force and suddenly it just clicked forward to the up position, then I looked down to see blood all over my hands but it wasn't as bad as it first looked! I managed to flatten out that little metal snag as well so that shouldn't cause any problems anymore, but I will probably leave the flap lever alone now, i still want to be able to push the throttle levers to max reheat and combat but they seem to stop at max dry, again maybe it will take a bit of force to push them forward. I wondered if any of the buttons or switches I have yet to find out what they do, if they have to be pressed to allow the throttles to move forward past max dry.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 17:03
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Have you tried rocking the thrust levers to the side to get from max dry into reheat?
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