View Full Version : French ATC Strike March 6th-10th (Brest/Bordeaux FIR's)
Week-long ATC Strike announced: France - International Ops 2017 (http://flightservicebureau.org/week-long-atc-strike-announced-france/)
Una Due Tfc
28th Feb 2017, 21:52
Well that's ruined my evening.
Alsacienne
28th Feb 2017, 21:58
Sigh. Oh no, not again. Any more for any more?
The Many Tentacles
1st Mar 2017, 07:00
Should be another fun week at work then - what's this one for?......not that it really matters
Squawk 7500
1st Mar 2017, 08:55
French ATC is the biggest joke in world aviation.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
1st Mar 2017, 09:05
Plenty of EGs lads - enjoy it while you can!
pax britanica
1st Mar 2017, 16:30
upsets my plans as I was going to Bordeaux that week.
It is bit odd though that with all the legitimate complaints voiced here about T&Cs being reduced and pay worsening for pilots and other Aviation professionals in the UK people get annoyed at their equivalents and neighbours standing up for themselvest and in France that means Strike.
kcockayne
1st Mar 2017, 16:48
upsets my plans as I was going to Bordeaux that week.
It is bit odd though that with all the legitimate complaints voiced here about T&Cs being reduced and pay worsening for pilots and other Aviation professionals in the UK people get annoyed at their equivalents and neighbours standing up for themselvest and in France that means Strike.
With you there pax. It's just a pity that strikes have to be the reaction to these sorts of problems. Anyone got a better idea of how to handle them ?
+ 1 to both the above....
KayPam
1st Mar 2017, 17:34
Yes, but what they're doing isn't very productive.
They're about 3500 to 4500 people.
Of course you can have a huge salary when you're in such a locked profession (irreplaceable), with such a corporatist spirit (due to being all trained at the same school in tightly knit classes of 20 guys/gals), and with a few rational arguments (money they bring, responsibility they have, etc..)
Their cause (fighting against pay worsening) might be just, yes.
But since their arguments are so specific, they're just creating a set of privileges for themselves.
Pay worsening should be fought through general strike. Not just ATC strike. The latter only consisting in allowing the random ATC to upgrade his car from audi A5 to A7...
Before judging do we know why they are striking?
I believe it's often not actually directly connected with the ATC organisation, but a more general civil service strike.
Alsacienne
2nd Mar 2017, 05:45
.... elections coming up?
pax britanica
2nd Mar 2017, 10:04
Gonzo
You may well be right but in France that amounts tot he same thing. Civil service positions are well paid and well protected and include all kind of people who were once Civil servants , or at least Government employees in UK.
The miracle of privatisation ended that of course as many many front line jobs were privatised as well meaning there is not the critical mass in UK or solidarity ( the Liberte Equalitie Fraternitie in France;' there's no such thing as Society' in UK)
And as is pointed out an election looms and in France that means Aux Armes Citoyens etc while we have 'Long to reign OVER us)
Different mindsets and I am not really sure how long France can sustain the civil service priveleges but they sure did alot better than we did
Of course, it's just that everyone seems to have a go at the ATCOs for going on strike assuming it's something directly to do with ATC, where often the situation is more complex.
GlobalJourney
2nd Mar 2017, 20:20
I thought I saw in a NOTAM earlier that Marseille LFMM has also joined in now too, but they won't start until Tuesday morning (also until Friday evening), but now I can't find it again.
Plazbot
2nd Mar 2017, 20:22
Wee wee.............
I say good for them.
I'd be game for a strike for the right reasons. I'd love to see a vote to ignite some of that dry powder we're always told about. But hey, if we can't strike over privatisation, the closure of a pension scheme, the destruction of trainee T&Cs, large scale redundancy, increasing workload demands and the routinely protracted pay negotiations, I don't know what's left..
Vive La France!
DC10RealMan
3rd Mar 2017, 07:49
247.
Well said.
I agree entirely and credit to the French ATC staff for "having a pair" and lets just hope that the powder isn't too dry if it is ever used as it was very dry in 1980 when I joined.
Vive La France!
The powder was used in 1981, I know because I was on the picket line. The ATCO redunedencies of 2015 were voluntary I know because I was in that line as well.
I must confess that before I left I thought the Union had lost its way a bit especially "working together".
Rgds
AyrTC
The union has definitely lost it's way. The latest pay negotiation was a great example.
I pay my £17 a month, and will continue to do so, but it's only for the legal cover should I have an incident one day.
It's a real shame. I know plenty of the union guys/gals put a lot of graft in.
247
The union lost it's way many years ago when it pushed for unit banding. The union exists to look after the interests of Swanwick and Heathrow, however the way NATS is going that's about all that will be left.
Is Prestwick Centre still earmarked for closure within 10 years?
Who knows.
However, I do know there's a large contingent within the union ranks that would happily see the introduction of Band-6! Obviously that would need to be mirrored at the bottom end by a shiny new Band-0 that all the current 1-3 units can move into. Seems fair.
Band 6,how interesting,I wonder where that large contingent is?
WindSheer
5th Mar 2017, 21:18
247.
I am very experienced at working with unions.
Your point regarding the legal cover is very apt. May I ask who is responsible for instilling such fear into you so that you feel it necessary to part with £17 every month?
Industry is so often blamed for generating a culture of blame and fear. Who is actually responsible?
Do the maths.....
That's fast becoming a source of discontent. Band 5 money has pulled so far ahead of the rest that's it's ridiculous. Don't even joke about a band 6 :O
kcockayne
6th Mar 2017, 04:31
I am so very glad that I left NATS when I did ! (before station grading). I was at EGPD, & as far as I am concerned , it was amongst the most demanding stations they had. Likewise at Jersey. When I arrived there, it still had some traffic, & was the 3 rd. busiest Unit in the country ( in the summer). So, money well earned !
However, I do not subscribe to station banding ( or whatever it is called). How do you grade a station ? Yes, EGLL & TT are far bigger & busier than PD & JJ. But they split the traffic between many more sectors & controllers. Everything comes at them from the same direction & at the same speed. They have more airspace to play with & more procedures to deal with it. In my experience the chaos that ATC has to deal with at a place like EGBE is far more demanding of the top rate for the job.
The union sold the rest of the units down the river when it agreed to Station Grading !
Del Prado
6th Mar 2017, 10:21
I suppose in response others would point to the disparity of revenues created for the company and customers at EGTT and EGLL as opposed to EGBE, etc or perhaps the relative lack of (successful) progression from band 2/3 to band 5 units.
These are all well worn arguements but isn't this thread meant to be about the French ATC strike this week?
GAPSTER
6th Mar 2017, 11:45
Well that authority isn't particularly sound I'm afraid...I can give you a number of examples over the last 3-4 years that have made just such a move.There are however very few that managed to stay.
confused atco
6th Mar 2017, 12:40
isn't this thread meant to be about the French ATC strike this week
Thats what I thought.
Satellite Man
6th Mar 2017, 16:39
Some media reported that the main reason of the strike is that the French controllers feel underpaid, as a comparison to the wages paid in other countries for similar hours and traffic loads.
To me it is not surprising that they are striking, since labour conditions at air traffic control seem to be deteriorating progressively and no one really wants to face it and discuss it, specially our employers. It is not just the salaries that are paid, but the hours, the shift patterns, and the poor condition of working facilities and equipment.
SINGAPURCANAC
7th Mar 2017, 06:40
I would like to ask how many hours on average Frech atcos work per week/month.
If you could write here separatly for twrs, accs, plus how many hours of these on frq, how many guaranteed rest between logged on freq hours, administrative duties hours ( if any mandatory)
Etc...
I always dream ( and spoke about french T&C), just would like to be current.
KayPam
7th Mar 2017, 20:28
32 contractual hours per week (average on a 12 day roster) including 25% break time if my memory is correct.
In practise, these hours will be reduced due to lower flight activity hence lower controlling needs.
French law imposes a minimum of 11 hours between two work days as a general rule and ATCs will have that or more. No administrative duty to my knowledge
Satellite Man : underpaid, lol.
Salary for an area controller or for a tower controller at a large airport will be 5k-8k (increase from 5 to 8k€, net, before income tax over the course of one's career)
Surferboy
8th Mar 2017, 12:29
So around €4-6k after tax, would be fairly average in Western Europe for a controller at a large airport or centre i would say...maybe a bit low even. But the 32-hour workweek evens that out perhaps...
Pugilistic Animus
8th Mar 2017, 21:10
Is there a French equivalent to Ronald Reagan?
Squawk 7500
8th Mar 2017, 22:08
The difference being the Americans were striking illegally.
Satellite Man
13th Mar 2017, 13:56
32 contractual hours per week (average on a 12 day roster) including 25% break time if my memory is correct.
In practise, these hours will be reduced due to lower flight activity hence lower controlling needs.
French law imposes a minimum of 11 hours between two work days as a general rule and ATCs will have that or more. No administrative duty to my knowledge
Satellite Man : underpaid, lol.
Salary for an area controller or for a tower controller at a large airport will be 5k-8k (increase from 5 to 8k€, net, before income tax over the course of one's career)
KayPam, in the UAE controllers are paid a lot more, it was in the region of 12k euro net per month 3 or 4 years ago, and the euro is not as strong as it used to be, so it means even more money now. I dont really see the point of criticising the French controllers for trying to get a normal salary raise or for defending their work conditions.
People in other sectors are getting good salary raises every year; why ATCOs shouldnt have a salary raise? Arent governments saying that the economy is starting to perform again? It would be great to see that reflected in salaries.