Garmin G5 certified

[Sam Rutherford]

Anyone fitted and used one already? Any feedback?

[Katamarino]

Not sure if you're a member of the US AOPA, but there's a big discussion about them on their forums here:

http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=100037

If you're not a member then I can PM you my login details so you can have a look.

[Sam Rutherford]

I'm a member, so have access. Very interesting - looks like initial bugs have been fixed with software... Thank you for the link!

Cheers, Sam.

[Curlytips]

I've always put off doing an IR because my aircraft hasn't enough equipment for airways, but maybe the G5 would be an economical fix?

It would give me a second "altimeter" and an attractive new attitude indicator (my old horizon is rather noisy and being elderly, occasionally doesn't erect ;)). So I think under the new relaxed equipment requirements, I might have enough to fly airways - King 155 loc/gs, G5, mode S, 8.33 installed (plus handheld 8.33), garmin 496 as panel back-up (and to give "dme").

What does the informed team think? Could I use the airways?

[Sam Rutherford]

I'm going for it, will post feedback here...

[RO13FLY]

It's a nice piece of kit - sadly I lack panel real estate.

[Sam Rutherford]

It's only 3.5 inches!?

[S-Works]

We are retrofitting the C172s you flew with us in Spain withe the G500s. So far they are proving to be a great fit.

[Sam Rutherford]

G5 or G500?

[S-Works]

g500. I didnt realise there was a G5!

[wsmempson]

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/570665

[S-Works]

OK, now thats cool!!!

[Sam Rutherford]

...and not expensive! A difficult combination in aviation! :-)

[9Aplus]

Just wondering about/if any recent experience on 2 x G5 + GTN 750 IFR installation on C172F?
Own case study while waiting delivery of installation kit ;)

[A and C]

Both the G5 and GTN750 are very capable bits of kit but it will take a lot of thinking about.

The GTN750 uses a lot of radio rack space and may have implications to your second comms radio depending on the route you go down with the audio control system.

I had considered the GTN750 and using the Aspen for AI / HSI display but decided to go with 2x GTN650 and G500 with the audio controlled by a PS engineering audio panel. Both the DME & ATC transponder will be remotely controlled.

Also the Garmin kit is compatible with a lot of comparitvly cheap traffic kit that will give you warnings of ADS-B, Mode S & FLARM equipped Aircraft.

This decision was largely dictated by panel space and equipment redundancy issues as well as the large (& costly ) display on the GTN750 Is mirrored on the G500.

I suspect that the radio rack space will not be as bigger issue on a C172 as it was on my Aircraft.

If you can find an avionics engineer who also flys with this sort of kit take his advice because people who understand both the flying and technical aspects of an equipment of like this are few and far between.

[tmmorris]

Assume this is all for your Robin... would love to come and have a look or a play once it’s all working...

[9Aplus]

@A & C
Tnx for kind evaluation.
Just looking if someone have the same/similar working setup. ->
GTN750(650) + G 5 (x2) + GMU11 + GAD29B
Here set is paid/ordered and I am one of (happy)
"avionics engineer" who must assist the things to operational level when times come. ;)

BTW The panel should be OK / this is working consideration about that....
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26047061_560249967655445_5019172449794897403_n.jpg?oh=42dd42 994bca5c971857666066884652&oe=5AC6FB3A

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26169934_560253114321797_8388700206447136550_n.jpg?oh=a47082 6ac2630e3086cc2adb4a7f60dc&oe=5AFBFA8B

[A and C]

Tim

You are welcome to come and fly the Robin when it is up and running, I have been fighting this project for three years now as most of my spare time was taken up maintaining three other aircraft.

Now these aircraft are not my responsibility I can give the time to the Robin project and a little flying instruction.......... time to turn those Slingsbey’s upside down !

[Heliplane]

The G5 is excellent. Would be nice if Garmin could have added a temperature input to give TAS but for the price one really can't complain.

Put one into an AA5 last summer. Our backup AI needed replacing and, after looking at prices and options, decided to make our primary (vacuum) AI the backup and install the G5 as the new primary.

Very much enjoyed flying with it until some @#£&+*@# taxied into my (parked) aircraft. It'll be back up again soon. Have also thought of installing a second G5 as an HSI. The two together don't quite give the functionality of an Aspen but it's a great improvement over the standard vacuum gauges.

[Big Pistons Forever]

This is a game changer. The market for new iron gyro’s has pretty much disappeared

[ChickenHouse]

Yes, at the given price tag the G5 killed the gyro business. But, it is computer stuff. Recent reports on frequent tumbling G5s worry me and prevents me flying with them into IMC.

[A and C]

You make a good point, while I would have no hesitation in fitting a G5 as a HSI I think I would let the system mature a little before using it as the primary attitude display.

[9Aplus]

Our installation is still on mock-up but we expect to have all on plane within
next two weeks...
Garmin support was so-so.
On the other hand support from Trig is excellent, they upgraded SW on TT31 for free, with prompt reply on any technical question. Great work.

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28377656_589194134761028_644976053052608407_n.jpg?oh=79ccfc7 7644923ec0330570d25cbe648&oe=5B17E070

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28516793_589194511427657_4180051611526394797_o.jpg?oh=3d44a4 64d2fbebfab14a45af2983b434&oe=5B0DB4B6
http://https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28516793_589194511427657_4180051611526394797_o.jpg?oh=3d44a4 64d2fbebfab14a45af2983b434&oe=5B0DB4B6

[ETOPS]

9Aplus

Nice pictures but from an instrument scanning point of view not so good.

I would swap the altimeter and turn and slip - likewise put the ASI where the VSI is. The ADF needle is nearly redundant so put that where the ASI came out and the VSI can go in the now vacant ADF hole.

You would then have a more natural scan similar to the basic six of other types.

[9Aplus]

Yes, that is also subject of our on going discussion.
This is 3rd layout solution, and still not final ;)

[hegemon88]

Nice pictures but from an instrument scanning point of view not so good.

[...]

You would then have a more natural scan similar to the basic six of other types.

Am I missing the point or will the scan now be limited to the top G5 only? Entire six-pack is now presented on a single display, and steam gauges are backup?

Today I flew behind 2 x G5 in a hire plane for the second time and I now know how my next panel upgrade will look like!



/h88

[MarcK]

Not sure what part of the world you are in, but in the US the FAA specifies the arrangement:§ 25.1321 Arrangement and visibility.
(a) Each flight, navigation, and powerplant instrument for use by any pilot must be plainly visible to him from his station with the minimum practicable deviation from his normal position and line of vision when he is looking forward along the flight path.

(b) The flight instruments required by § 25.1303 must be grouped on the instrument panel and centered as nearly as practicable about the vertical plane of the pilot's forward vision. In addition -

(1) The instrument that most effectively indicates attitude must be on the panel in the top center position;

(2) The instrument that most effectively indicates airspeed must be adjacent to and directly to the left of the instrument in the top center position:

(3) The instrument that most effectively indicates altitude must be adjacent to and directly to the right of the instrument in the top center position; and

(4) The instrument that most effectively indicates direction of flight must be adjacent to and directly below the instrument in the top center position.

[9Aplus]

...will the scan now be limited to the top G5 only? Entire six-pack is now presented on a single display, and steam gauges are backup?

True.
But we also must consider worst case of both G5 down.
In that case student pilot may not be able to fly partial panel
so instructor is taking over...

[rjtjrt]

True.
But we also must consider worst case of both G5 down.
In that case student pilot may not be able to fly partial panel
so instructor is taking over...

The possibilty of both G5 ‘s failing at same time is not as remote as may at first seem. The risk is a software bug, as obviously both run the same software.

[9Aplus]

Can Bus short circuit, can bring that level of trouble too.
On the other hand, line break, not.
G5+G5+GMU11+GAD29 are all on that bus.

[Pilot DAR]

The observations about instrument position have merit. It is very wise to arrange the instruments as closely as possible to the FAR Part 23 standard quoted. All certified aircraft made since the mid '70's will have this arrangement, to the extent that they are equipped.

The reasoning being that the pilot will develop muscle memory for the instrument scan, and instinctively look to the correct position on the panel for the information they seek. This becomes more important for night flying.

The other thing I do when making or approving instrument panel changes is to insist that the panel itself be any colour other than black. The reasoning for this is that the eye is more able to distinguish any particular instrument because the black round face is contrast to the not black panel, and the eye can center on the instrument, and perceive the information rapidly. In the case of a black panel, the white marks, numbers, and pointers can become a blur, particularly if the instruments are very closely spaced, or of poor arrangement. This can make night IFR flying quickly tiring. It is perhaps for this reason that some black panel aircraft have a white or yellow line painted around the central instruments.

The "glass cockpit" displays will of course cause the need to rearrange things, and new standards for arrangement. But any attempt to maintain consistency of the steam gauges which are installed will be worthwhile to pilot perception, and ease of transition from type to type.

[ETOPS]

Thanks Pilot DAR

I was thinking along these lines...

https://mms.businesswire.com/media/20170329005114/en/577973/5/Dual_G5_Certificated.jpg

[Pilot DAR]

That Skyhawk panel looks beautiful!

[Sam Rutherford]

Two G5 better than one Aspen?

[Pilot DAR]

A C 182 panel I made a few years back


https://www.pprune.org/members/150561-pilot-dar-albums-dars-1-picture952-jbi-left-panel.jpg

Right side

https://www.pprune.org/members/150561-pilot-dar-albums-dars-1-picture953-jbi-right-panel.jpg

[PENNINE BOY]

Fitted 2 G5s to my PA28 to go with the Garmin 650; really impressed with it. Suction system removed.
Can’t wait for the Garmin autopilot to get released.

[ChickenHouse]

Can't help it, but these glass cockpits look like video games. Do you really fly with these things, wouldn't a flight simulator be cheaper?

[alex90]

Can't help it, but these glass cockpits look like video games. Do you really fly with these things, wouldn't a flight simulator be cheaper?

Haha - very true! But for most of us flying 1970s (or earlier) aeroplanes, whose avionics look mostly unchanged since then, are starting to become *ermmm* "occasionally inaccurate".

The question of replacing instruments then becomes a reality and making sure to fit the best you can buy for your money makes the G5 a very interesting proposition... Although steam gauges still hold dear to my heart, losing the suction system altogether is something I would definitely consider.

I'm not a fan of the Aspen 1000, I've seen it mentioned up there a few times, I find it a bit buggy, seen it completely fail on a blocked pitot tube (including AI / HSI ) and definitely not worth the price-tag in my opinion, I'd spend the 2 or 3k more and get the G500 (if they still make them / someone has some in stock). They were fantastic to fly with, although not quite the G1000....

[ChickenHouse]

Haha - very true! But for most of us flying 1970s (or earlier) aeroplanes, whose avionics look mostly unchanged since then, are starting to become *ermmm* "occasionally inaccurate".

The question of replacing instruments then becomes a reality and making sure to fit the best you can buy for your money makes the G5 a very interesting proposition... Although steam gauges still hold dear to my heart, losing the suction system altogether is something I would definitely consider.

I'm not a fan of the Aspen 1000, I've seen it mentioned up there a few times, I find it a bit buggy, seen it completely fail on a blocked pitot tube (including AI / HSI ) and definitely not worth the price-tag in my opinion, I'd spend the 2 or 3k more and get the G500 (if they still make them / someone has some in stock). They were fantastic to fly with, although not quite the G1000....
I agree and most probably I have to go G5 or similar if my AI finally gives up, but this does not mean I like it.

Flying behind G1000 can be done and I have a lot of hours there, but it always felt a bit Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards - even though the Nxi does a big step to the remake version ...

I thought on suction systems out some years ago, but when I was exactly into final consideration I had to fly a Diesel C172 and encountered an engine failure due to power gone. My feeling = never allow power to be vital for flying. I abandoned the idea of taking the suction system off the plane.

[Sam Rutherford]

Aspen/G500 argument, you need to compare the installed price, not the purchase price.

Then the decision is not so simple...

[alex90]

I thought on suction systems out some years ago, but when I was exactly into final consideration I had to fly a Diesel C172 and encountered an engine failure due to power gone. My feeling = never allow power to be vital for flying. I abandoned the idea of taking the suction system off the plane.

Do you have venturi driven suction? I am pretty sure that most of the planes I fly (that have suction at all that is...) have engine driven suction, so that probably wouldn't have helped. The batteries they make for these backup systems are starting to get really good too - I've definitely seen 4 hours quoted on a few of these, including the G5 - and that's when your main battery has depleted, so I would like to hope that this would be enough to get down safely and fix whatever needs fixing.

But I definitely do get what you're saying about "Leisure Suit Larry"! Although I too enjoyed flying the G1000, it isn't the same.


Aspen/G500 argument, you need to compare the installed price, not the purchase price.


Entirely agree, but if you're also thinking of installing a nice GTN750 to replace your non waas G430 or old Kings GPS the install cost will be reduced too, you may as well invest in your plane properly... I do think that you'll likely lose little in terms of resale value [although you'd need the cash to burn in the first place of course ;-) ]. I didn't mind the Aspen too much, I just wasn't wowed by it, and thought it wasn't worth the money. I would much rather get 2x G5 and keep the remaining 5k for the AVGAS fund :-)

[ChickenHouse]

Do you have venturi driven suction? I am pretty sure that most of the planes I fly (that have suction at all that is...) have engine driven suction, so that probably wouldn't have helped. The batteries they make for these backup systems are starting to get really good too - I've definitely seen 4 hours quoted on a few of these, including the G5 - and that's when your main battery has depleted, so I would like to hope that this would be enough to get down safely and fix whatever needs fixing.
No, most aircraft have engine driven suction pumps - as long as the engine is running all is fine and not dependent on elec-trickery. These batteries are most probably the once coming in that famous boxes saying "not allowed to be transported in aircraft" ... same as the replacements for ELT ... I am quite happy with that, somehow.
Entirely agree, but if you're also thinking of installing a nice GTN750 to replace your non waas G430 or old Kings GPS the install cost will be reduced too, you may as well invest in your plane properly... I do think that you'll likely lose little in terms of resale value [although you'd need the cash to burn in the first place of course ;-) ]. I didn't mind the Aspen too much, I just wasn't wowed by it, and thought it wasn't worth the money. I would much rather get 2x G5 and keep the remaining 5k for the AVGAS fund :-)
If you have a non-WAAS 430 the best route may be a 440 ;-).

[alex90]

Oh the Avidyne440? Interesting - I haven't flown with that one. Any good? Still looks like 90s design similar to the 430. I think I'd probably want the size up though!! :-)

[ChickenHouse]

Oh the Avidyne440? Interesting - I haven't flown with that one. Any good? Still looks like 90s design similar to the 430. I think I'd probably want the size up though!! :-)
I never had Avidyne on my list of things to look at, but had the opportunity to fly behind a 440-540 combination. It is awesome and the 440 had the WiFi&BT option installed - which gives you a large second touch screen on the iPad, so no need for a big screen panel GPS.

As the 440 also is slide in replacement for the 430W (and only change of antenna for non-WAAS ... compare that to the money you have to throw for 430-650 conversions) it is a very strong competitor to Garmin. I do love the Avidyne FMS derived logics, much more modern compared to Garmin.

Have a look at it, it is worth it.

[sharpend]

Anyone yet fit (or plan to fit) a G5 to a Annex 2 aircraft yet? I would like a certified G5 in my Bulldog to replace the original air driven DI. It seems to be a big step forward in capability and safety.

[9Aplus]

Just for information...
So far we learned that GAD29B can work with old Century II (1C385) with D.G. and A.H.
only in case you already have rare optional radio coupler.... 1C388
Please read carefully small text and numbers before you order 29B ;)

[9Aplus]

Almost ready for GMU11 calibration.... :cool:

https://scontent.fzag2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31282822_10215364655297188_9011281778947443692_n.jpg?_nc_cat =0&oh=93f4182c44270d97c45740b478069859&oe=5B53880C

3 months before:

https://scontent.fzag2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31250612_616906041989837_6892709167551741952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeFqUFF7eTeCzJGo7y29F7ctngSQRJdHDOfgcYHTAOFyro rcOYINfX0YAv18vCgry3Urah5OrR39kN1LZ9cP4_DrTA9qy5S3ogx7jrJ-R994ZA&oh=45630925ff822fb573a29fd509ce25d6&oe=5B67A2A3

[BurritoBeach]

Oh the Avidyne440? Interesting - I haven't flown with that one. Any good? Still looks like 90s design similar to the 430. I think I'd probably want the size up though!! :-)

I replaced the GNS430 and King transponder in my Cherokee about 18 months ago and couldn’t be happier. I’m fully ADS-B equipped (added the Avidyne Mode-S transponder) and the and all at a price much less than the Garmin stuff. I have a G5 unit that replaced my failed attitude indicator and it’s great. Only problem is that I want a second G5 to replace my heading indicator, but they don’t play as well with the IFD. I’m considering the new, cheaper Aspen but not sure yet. If you have any questions about the IFD, let me know and I’ll be happy to help out!

[cessnapete]

Apart from the 2 G5, what an odd panel layout. Looks completely random, especially with the old clock so prominent!

[9Aplus]

One 8" notepad (landscape) bellow that clock, soon can improve your artistic impression :P
(Notepad with VFR/IFR maps and traffic advisory app.)

[MrAverage]

I've not seen one in the flesh, but it appears that text (perhaps more importantly the numbers within that text) is displayed significantly smaller than on steam gauges. I'd probably need a second long sight prescription in low light conditions.....................................

[9Aplus]

Must explain some circumstances around this upgrade.
This is RF172F Reims Rocket with 210 hp Continental engine, Hoffman constant speed prop, YOM 1970
The owner is old school pilot (with Class 1 medical, but over the ages for commercial PAX ops), bit older than airframe
still teaching student pilots / youngsters are able to see G5 :)

Target of this modernization is IFR training.

Because of G5 STC, some steam gauges must be present, but they are spare units for primary G5, all in training environment
for IFR. Simply, no reason to keep the spare gauges in classic T layout around joke.

One of strict demands, is to be able to go home on partial panel. therefore we have one more electric
turn and bank on right. Some training of how to go home (old way) must be done on clock, ADF or mag compass,
therefore we have ADF and mechanical clock on prominent positions. Etc....

Electric installation cleared from old dead wires. All fuses replaced, most of switches too. New panel marks.
New fuse panel for digital avionics with separate master switch. New night-dome lights, white and night red installed.
And lot of small repairs on all electric and plastic components.

All works are done under EASA Part F minor modifications and STC. Transponder now is full ADS-B.
Major mod under ELA1 Part 21 of connecting with old Century 2 autopilot was not feasible at all,
therefore next winter is expected second stage with new digital autopilot and new actuators, plus
8" traffic advisory and maps display on empty position left from G5. Also Com2 and Nav 2 from Becker
must be replaced with one small case unit.

Autopilot coupling with GTN750 is major mod, so again Part 21 paperwork is necessary.
The only hope is that EASA is relaxing bit approach to DOA and ADOA rules for GA.
This is still kind of work in progress but now is time for flying.... ;)

[7AC]

Has anyone here tried the Sandel SN3500 ?
It seems to be very capable but pricey.

[9Aplus]

Frist time seen on FR24 (ADS B) after GMU11 calibration.....

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31433669_618381805175594_5818632207253635072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeEdVQcVXPuI6xENJmeNqlHCquud_DATSqHN_bVV5z7zmk 5WULq7dBlc0AGqEMHzDrYR7mNews-KWJ9dLq9fRNbHJPihPlny_dls025nm-yLNg&oh=7a53d87aac13a51749caf6e15fa5155f&oe=5B68475A