Ground exams

[BigEndBob]

I know that they have to be taken all in the same EASA State, but do they also all have to be taken at same school, ATO or RF.
Application form seems to suggest so.
Anyone that can quote chapter and verse.
Had a look around and can't find any info.
What happens if a student waltzs off to a ground school course that wants to set exams half way through doing exams at his/her flying school.

[S-Works]

No, we regularly have students with part exams. The school referring them signs the relevant section of the SRG1105 and we duplicate the page with the exams sat with us signed off.

I prefer to do al the exams internally as it meets our QA requirements but we also have to respect the passes done elsewhere if documented and signed off correctly.

[Whopity]

The CAA produced an IN 2012/027 detailing procedures for transfer of training. This was cancelled on 13 Dec 2015.
FCL.025 States:(1) Applicants shall take the entire set of theoretical knowledge examinations for a specific licence or rating under the responsibility of one Member State.
As the UK has torn up its requirement, there appears to be no further restriction.

There appear to be a number of issues, candidates may have failed a paper and fail to tell you; or they don't know which paper it was, or they may have exceeded the 6 sittings!

FCL.025 also states:(2) Applicants shall only take the theoretical knowledge examination when recommended by the approved training organisation (ATO) responsible for their training, once they have completed the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction to a satisfactory standard. Note, TK examination is "singular"!

[TheOddOne]

Note, TK examination is "singular"!

One can only hope this is a future intention!

TOO

[BEagle]

Note, TK examination is "singular"!

Nope. 'Examination' simply means the condition of being examined, which can be achieved by written or verbal means.

Thus the examination of an applicant's knowledge may take the form of a number of actual written examination papers.

[keith williams]

There could of course be an advantage for schools to employ a more sinister meaning. If the nine papers are taken to mean nine parts of a single examination, some schools could use this to coerce candidates into taking all of the papers in a single school.

[B61]

bEagle,
I thought AOPA were supposed to be bringing out a more fit for purpose set of exam papers for the PPL ?

The current set were cobbled together by a certain person at the CAA using irrelevant questions from the CPL question bank and resulted in 9 little mickey-mouse exams because he could not interpret EASA regulations correctly.

What has happened to the work AoPA were supposed to be doing on this over the past year or two ? I though we were supposed to get 4 or 5 exams with more practical content focused on recreational flying ? Or even a straight adoption of the BMAA exams ? No doubt the plans have disappeared into the usual AOPA "all talk and no action" black hole......

Also,
....am I correct that the exams merely have to be done within one country ? There is nothing I am aware of in any regulation or IN which states that they are supposed to be done only at one RF. The regulations refer to training being transferred from ATO to ATO : RFs are completely out of scope. As a GR(E) I had this argument last weekend with a Midlands based club who stated that exams all had to be taken with one examiner/RF when a student came to me having done 4 exams with them and wanting to do some with me. Although when I asked them for the source regulation or IN, all they could offer was bluster and hearsay.
For various reasons it suited me to hand said student back, but no doubt a similar situation could crop up in future.

[MrAverage]

Exams just have to be done in the same State (of the United States of Europe).


RFs are still considered to be ATOs for most purposes (not the least forms which make no mention of us) which includes transfer of students.............

[B61]

RFs are considered ATOs ? Where does it say that then ?

If someone doing a PPL at a school or club decides to move, they just go somewhere else.

There is no course of training for Theoretical knowledge knowledge, it is self study. When someone feels they are ready, they take the exam with whoever is actually able to do it.

It does not have to be at the school they are learning at: a stand-alone TK provider/Examiner can do it. So long as the relevant exam is completed on Page 4 of the SRG1105 form by said person, then they have passed.

[BigEndBob]

Hi B61, I am the person you spoke to, that's why I posted on here to try and find out where I had the information that all the exams had to be done at one school.

It would appear to be the case, that as in the past, they can be done by any examiner anywhere. Just wish the CAA hadn't changed the application form so that whoever sets the exam signs for that exam. Rather than just the one sign off.
Now have a situation where there could be six copies of that page with six different examiners signing off. Would be better if that was a stand alone page the student could carry from exam venue to venue.

Of course the main concern was around the transference of a student records (exam results) where by I think that it was required that professional licence course records went via the CAA. And that was also going to be the case for PPL with the ATO's.
And that ultimately I have to sign to say the whole course is complete, and I'm the one getting the e-mails if things aren't right and I end up out of the loop.

Can't wait until all the exams go online!

[MrAverage]

It is a requirement when changing schools that the student request copies of previous student records (not just exam results) be sent to the new school. Although many do not comply, it is incorrect for a student to "just go somewhere else" and also incorrect for a school to accept them without a formal transfer.


There is also still a requirement for a student to be assessed as ready to take each written exam, they cannot decide for themselves. Of course, this is often not complied with either.....................

[B61]

Hi BeB,

I though the post was more than co-incidental....

In the case of the individual in question, I shall leave him to stay with the RF he has started with. That certainly works for me, in this particular case.........!

Any idea on timescales for online exams ? With this be the end of the GR(E) ?

[xanadu99]

Hi i have one question, is the exam questions generally the same regardless what country you are in under EASA? I am in Ireland i use the Air Quiz online banks and generally the questions refer to the "UK" a lot. Will i get this in an exam taken in Ireland? Just wondering if i am wasting time using these apps and the questions wont be similar to the one si get in theory exams in ireland? I think i am wrong but someone can shed the light :)

[Whopity]

is the exam questions generally the same regardless what country you are in under EASA? NO; there are no EASA PPL Exam Questions. Each State generates its own PPL question bank so they are all different. If you do your exams in NI they will be UK CAA questions, if you do them in the Republic they will be IAA questions.
In reality, there is no such thing as an EASA PPL; they are all National licences with an EASA sticker on the front page!