Autoland - all devices hard off

[hoss183]

I was taking an LX flight into PRG on an A320 last week, and prior to landing the CC announced that as they would be making an autoland, all devices must be switched off (not just in flight mode, but switched off). They made a big song & dance of this, going round all the pax ensuring that this was done.

I've never seen this before and would be rather surprised that the autoland electronics would be more sensitive than any other part of the avionics. Or was there something else going on here?

[aterpster]

Sounds like a bit of improvisation to get them to turn off their toys.

[MarkerInbound]

I rode AA into ORD this week. Weather in Chicago was a bit fuzzy, borderline CAT I/CAT II. There was an announcement that "because of the type of landing" all electronic devices had to be switched off, not just in airplane mode.

[fantom]

Rubbish. Airbusses are bomb-proof.

[Denti]

Same SOP in my outfit. For autolands all passenger PEDs have to be turned off, not just in flightmode.

[Icelanta]

Give me ONE good reason, scientifically proven, that any device in flight mode can interfere with the autoland please...

But our Ipads, EFB etc...on the flightdeck can still be used...🙄

[Denti]

I believe it is a risk assessment by the authority. They have two fully trained pilots up front to take over in CAT I and better conditions, but believe that may not always be enough in worse conditions and therefore want to avoid any possible risk of interference.

PEDs in flight mode still emit electromagnetic interference, and it is simply impossible to test every possible combination of PEDs (current, past and future ones, working correctly and malfunctioning) and aircraft wear and tear to be absolutely sure that nothing can happen. As bureaucrats everywhere, those from our CAAs or airlines apparently want to be more than sure that they are not responsible for anything, therefore they introduced that song and dance to make sure they cannot be blamed.

The company iPads in our cockpit are actually approved after they have been tested, our private iPads and smartphones fall under the same PED ban as the passenger devices. iPad testing is an ongoing process and every software (update) has to be tested before we can install it, which in the case of major iOS releases can take up to three months.

[aterpster]

I doubt everyone understands how to completely power down an iPhone or iPad. And, for those who do, there is virtually no assurance of compliance.

[wiggy]

Given this came up in a prior thread I guess it's been a foggy few weeks and maybe a few passengers have been for the first time (knowingly) exposed to full blown CAT 2/3 Autolands for the first time since rules were relaxed on PEDs. ...

1. The crews (in Europe at least) are not making this up.

2. It's what Denti said: There's nothing "going on" other than a risk assessment has been done by those cleverer than I. Interference with the avionics on a good weather CAT 1, probably hand flown approach/hand flown landing in relatively good visibility is considered acceptable, on a CAT2/3 autoland in the "clag" the risk of similar interference is rightly considered not so acceptable..

Background: As part of the general relaxation on rules regarding PEDs the "authority" (in our case the CAA/EASA) decreed that non approved PEDS ( which in reality probably means everything but the flight crews company issued and approved iPads, or similar) must be hard off for Low Vis approaches - in fact the requirement is been around for well over a year now. It's in our Ops Manual, that means it's legal requirement to have the things turned off, the announcements are also a legal requirement, so it's not just the crew messing around and/or making a song and dance for the sake of it. I'd guess most European airlines have similar.

So regardless of what anyone here thinks about the risks we're stuck with the rule, and TBH honest is it really that darned difficult to just go with the flow and just turn the ***** things off for 20 or so minutes?


FWIW as an example of the legislation from EASA: https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/Part-NCC%20AMC-%20GM%20-%20Amendment%201%20(Annex%20to%20ED%20Decision%202014-030-R%20).pdf

Table 1, "– Scenarios for permitting the use of PEDs by the operator", items 6 and 7 refer.

[hoss183]

Thanks wiggy and others for the full answer. I'd never seen it before and was looking for conformation it was a real and not just an over exited CC.

[wiggy]

No worries, It's not a well advertised rule, probably since it effects relatively few sectors in the scheme of things...

[OhNoCB]

Is this an airbus thing? Neither of the two UK Boeing operators I have worked for had/have this rule.

[Denti]

No, we did operate 737s with the same rule, no difference in that regard to the airbuses. It came into force with the relaxation on PEDs in general, so it i still kinda new.

[Piltdown Man]

The questions are, has the operator properly determined if their aircraft is T-PED tolerant and does their oversight authority allow them any relaxation according to the manufacturer's certification? I'll guess that somebody is behind the times and/or too conservative.

PM