Shares and hour building

[tobster911]

Hello all,

I'm looking to hour build as cheaply as possible, really looking into shares in something like an Evans VP1. Anyone got anything or know anyone that may have something? Based in North Essex but willing to travel a little way if I can do a few hours a day really cheaply.

Many thanks

T

[Jerico]

Try a Turbulent they are far more fun and at the Tiger Club you can learn formation flying at the same time.

[mothminor]

Yes, a turbulent may be more fun.
It has lighter controls and has more street cred (if that is important to you).


A VP1, however would be cheaper to buy (half the cost), is more rugged and can handle higher x-winds.
I had plenty of fun in one.


Operating costs should be similar, may be 1/2 gal/hr more fuel for the VP1 as it will probably have a 1834 vw.


Whatever you choose, enjoy your flying. Gain experience as well as hours.
J.J.

[tobster911]

Turbulent at £75ph seems quite cheap, but there's a slight problem. I'm a bit too far from Kent, and if I could get a share at £750 for a VP1, plus £30pm plus £20ph running costs, over the course of 200 hours in 12 months = £5110 (and can resell the share) or £15k for the same time in a Turbulent. A rather large cost saving there :) An all up cost of £25.55 per hour.
Having just done the maths, I need a VP1 - where can I buy one?

[Prophead]

What are you hour building towards? If it is a CPL/IR then you may be better off doing an IMC and getting a cheap share in a 152 or something. What you spend during the hour building you will save by going down the CB-IR route.

A VP1 or turb will be fun and give you some good handling skills but anything over say 20 hours will not help towards the CPL type flying.

If you are just building hours for fun then that s a different matter.

Also, you may want to check the Tiger Club again, they may not be as far from yourself as you think.

[tobster911]

I want to eventually achieve an (F)ATPL. Why would it help to get the IMC then a 152? Just because it stops as much limit being put on flying days (I can fly more often)? Sorry, what's the CB bit of CB-IR?

Many thanks


I'll have a look :)

[tobster911]

It's a four hour round trip. Not impossible, but a fair way nonetheless

[jet88]

The CB-IR that prop is talking about is the competency based instrument rating. If you were to do the IMC you would be able to offset the dual training time against the time required for your subsequent IR. Once you have the IMC rating you could then fly as PIC in IMC which can also (up to a limit) be counted against the flying time for the IR when you go down the CB-ir route.

You'll probably find that even dual time in a 152 will be cheaper than a fnpt ii sim for the IR training. As you do the IMC you just need to be sure you're learning the sort of techniques and procedures that will help you through the IR later on rather than learning any bad habits which could be counter productive.

CAP 804 has info on the CB IR.

[Prophead]

That's right, you can potentially combine some of your hour building with some IFR hour building.

Also the Tiger Club is now based at Damyns Hall I believe.

[ChampChump]

The Tiger Club is somewhat spread out at present. It remains, I believe, a requirement to check out in a Tiger Moth before flying a Turb.

[A and C]

First I need to declare a former interest.

I at one time did lease aircraft to hours builders ( and would do again if it made money ) but I have moved on.

The guys who leased my aircraft on a short term basis usually for blocks of about 50 hours seem to have all found themselfs jobs in the industry. Most of them took the aircraft on long trips around the scotish islands & the south of France being two examples. This flying exposed them to the desicion making and developed pilotage skills required in commercial aviation. One thing I am sure about is potential employers did see this type of hour building as a very positive approach and not just burning holes in the sky.

Unfortunately the business case for hour building did not stack up some I rented to chickened out at the last moment leaving me with weeks in the middle of the summer unfilled and others would be on the phone morning noon & night giving minor gripes about the aircraft as reasons they could not fly when the real reason was they has got bored with the short trips around the local area and had bitten off more than they could chew when to came to venturing out from under their safety blanket.

My business model has changed now and I lease to a flying club, I now just have the problem of providing a serviceable aircraft and the club has the people problems, I would not rule out leasing an aircraft to someone for hours building but I now know the type of person that is right for this type of hour building experience and am much more able to spot those who's lack of confidence means they are better closely supervised.

It is important if you are going to build hours you recognise what type of person you are and if you lack confidence in your ability to make your own flying decisions then I would asvise you to stay at your flying club and cook some sort of discount deal this will be cheaper than getting into a flying group and finding that you don't have the confidence to use the aircraft to its best advantage.

[tobster911]

Hi A & C, I'm looking to go towards the airlines, so want to challenge myself in terms of longer trips etc, as I have family spread out all over the UK. What would be a 7 hour drive to see my parents is just 1hr45 in a PA28. If I PM you, would we be able to have a chat regarding leasing for hour building?
Many thanks
T

[Genghis the Engineer]

Quick back of envelope sum for you.

Buy a share at £2k, fly at bargain basement rates of about £70/hr all in, do 200 hrs, sell the share for a knockdown price of £1000. You just spent £15k, or 75/hr for your hourbuilding.

Buy a cheap LAA aeroplane for £7k (I'm looking at this as an example, as it just appeared on AFORS, and looks a lot of fun https://afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=26152&imid=0 )

Fly 200 hours in a year.

Fuel: 200 x 12 x £1.20 = £2,880. Let's cal it £3,000 with oil.
Insurance: ~£1,000
Tie-down / hangarage costs at a cheap farmstrip: £1,500
Maintenance / permit costs: ~£500
Sell if for a bargain price of £4,000

Total about £9,000 for 200 hours flying, or £45/hr.

Other aeroplanes and financial models are available! Most of which leave you knowing also vastly more about aviation than you would have done with somebody else managing the aeroplane. Even if you keep the aeroplane, you finish off financially slightly better off, and owning an aeroplane !

G