6 engines stolen

[Duckeggblue]

Reported In a couple of places that SIX engines stolen from Sutton Meadows Airfield Friday night.
Apart from the expense, that is a lot of people who can no longer fly.
What on earth can we do to stop theses people?

[A and C]

The Euro GA website has a thread that allows people to post the P/N & S/N of items that have gone missing, it might be worth posting the details toward people not to buy these engines, you might get lucky and have the police informed.

[Jan Olieslagers]

If they are (as I presume) Rotax, even more effective to report to Rotax themselves, they keep a list, per engine type, and periodically publish it as a service bulletin. The list is, sadly, quite long.

As an immediate show-stopper, reportedly available for some 5000 quid:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47#/media/File:AK-47_type_II_Part_DM-ST-89-01131.jpg


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(https://www.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdailycaller.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2FAk47-e1363724603451.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdailycaller.com%2F2013%2F03%2F19%2Fno-one-needs-an-ak-47-either%2F&docid=tvJSUdU9bnJe7M&tbnid=ytZi-dwTeYwMsM%3A&vet=1&w=1920&h=825&client=ubuntu&bih=887&biw=1280&q=ak-47&ved=0ahUKEwjXhsbDt-fRAhVHGsAKHeiMCsAQMwgzKAIwAg&iact=mrc&uact=8)

[smarthawke]

Let's face it, anyone in the market for buying a Rotax 91x engine 'off the back of a lorry' is unlikely to worry if where it came from.

Unfortunately, there are purchasing scrotes as well as supplying scrotes.

[alex90]

Whatever you do - please please please don't buy from ANY non reputable shop. This will hopefully stop the black market from existing and stop these thieves from stealing in the first place! (If they can't sell to anyone - it would make the profits of scrap metal somewhat less attractive!)

[Jan Olieslagers]

It seems beyond any doubt to me that these thieves will not sell in the country where they stole - they are obviously not stupid.
Better to check the serial number, before buying, against the Rotax list. And make sure it is the original serial number.

[ChickenHouse]

With the typical lifetime paper history of aviation engines, at least in the certified world, I find it unlikely somebody would steel such. To whom could you possibly sell?

[Jan Olieslagers]

Rotaxen are generally used on non-certified aircraft. (Actually there are certified versions but those are quite rare.) Again, those thieves are not stupid.

[DirtyProp]

With the typical lifetime paper history of aviation engines, at least in the certified world, I find it unlikely somebody would steel such. To whom could you possibly sell?
Anybody looking for a really cheap, non-cert. engine and /or spare parts.
They could make more money selling the parts individually than the whole engine. As Jan wrote, the vast majority of these engines are not certified.

[Prophead]

Are there other known uses for the Rotax other than aircraft?

[oldairphot]

I believe that some motorcycle trikes use them, I saw one some time back can't remember it's name, sorry

[Jan Olieslagers]

Are there other known uses for the Rotax other than aircraft?

Assuming we are talking Rotax (which hasn't been confirmed as yet) and further assuming we are talking about the Rotax 912, which has been most plagued by this theft vague:

One could of course use them in a boat, or to drive a generator; but there are cheaper, simpler, less delicate engines for such applications. IMHO they'll never command more money than in the application they were meant for.
Neither do I much believe in their value when marketed as spare parts: major overhauls of these engines are rather exceptional, hence demand must be limited. Except perhaps in Eastern Europe - where I suspect most to go anyway.

[ArthurG]

All the evidence points to these being used in Eastern European kit-built aircraft. The thing that amazes me is that the thieves target low-houred versions, so the selling network must have built up a market reputation which they are trying to maintain. It makes me wonder if they are somehow given new identities and sold as legitimate engines to unknowing customers.

[m.Berger]

Makes one think that a mistaken hours figure on Ginfo could be a sensible error to make.

[FullWings]

Steal-to-order? Like a lot of cars that make their way east from Europe...

[DirtyProp]

Are there other known uses for the Rotax other than aircraft?

I read somewhere that the Rotax 582 can be used on water scooters as well, but the 912 is pretty much good only for ultralighs, not much else.
Are there any more information about this vile act?

[Martin_123]

All the evidence points to these being used in Eastern European kit-built aircraft. The thing that amazes me is that the thieves target low-houred versions, so the selling network must have built up a market reputation which they are trying to maintain. It makes me wonder if they are somehow given new identities and sold as legitimate engines to unknowing customers.
can I ask, what evidence are you referring to and what types/producers are involved?

It makes me wonder why UK customs/border guards allow stolen stuff to leave the country so easily.. Just couple of weeks ago I read an article where a couple of stolen UK luxury cars were seized in Latvia on border with Russia - they've made it all across Europe until some border guard noticed that the UK licence plates were obvious fakes.. and it happens all the time.. surely you see multi-grand engine's leaving the country, someone should check if the paperwork is in order?

[Rod1]

Most of the Rotax 912X engines in the UK may be in permit aircraft but selling to a another UK user without changing the identity of the engine would be next to impossible – it would be flagged up at the next permit renewal. Scuttlebutt is some are going into military UAV 's for use in E Europe.

Rod1

[Geriaviator]

a couple of stolen UK luxury cars were seized in Latvia on border with Russia
That's nothing, hundreds of them are stolen to order for Africa. Watch any docks video and wonder how one could begin to search thousands of containers. Contractors' plant is so popular that most big machines contain a tracking device -- which is how 30t diggers have been seized on the quayside. My sympathies to the victims of this theft.

[750XL]

These will undoubtedly have been stolen my organised gangs in Eastern Europe, Albania etc. Within a few hours I'd imagine they were well on their way to continental Europe never to be seen again

[ArthurG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurG http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/590255-6-engines-stolen.html#post9658215)
All the evidence points to these being used in Eastern European kit-built aircraft. The thing that amazes me is that the thieves target low-houred versions, so the selling network must have built up a market reputation which they are trying to maintain. It makes me wonder if they are somehow given new identities and sold as legitimate engines to unknowing customers.

can I ask, what evidence are you referring to and what types/producers are involved?

It makes me wonder why UK customs/border guards allow stolen stuff to leave the country so easily.. Just couple of weeks ago I read an article where a couple of stolen UK luxury cars were seized in Latvia on border with Russia - they've made it all across Europe until some border guard noticed that the UK licence plates were obvious fakes.. and it happens all the time.. surely you see multi-grand engine's leaving the country, someone should check if the paperwork is in order?

This was September 2016:

PIANEZZA, ARRESTATI I LADRI DEL CAMPOVOLO: AVEVANO ELICHE E MOTORI NASCOSTI NEL CAMIONCINO | CinturaOvest (http://www.cinturaovest.it/wp/2016/09/13/pianezza-arrestati-i-ladri-del-campovolo-avevano-eliche-e-motori-nascosti-nel-camioncino/)

Jonzarno in the other place provides this translation:
Carabinieri have arrested a 39 year old Ukranian mason [sic] and a Romanian worker aged 32. They were arrested at Leini on board a Mercedes lorry with a Polish registration.

The vehicle was transporting several work tools and gardening equipment. But not only that: In the vehicle, the Carabinieri also found six aircraft engines and propellers, stolen on 7 September from the Prealpi Musine airfield at Pianezze. They were hidden in a false bottom created by a wooden panel.
end of translation



There are a several Eastern European aircraft using 91x series engines, Foxbat (Ukraine), Eurostar (Czech), Sportcruiser (Czech) are ones I've heard of because they're marketed in the UK, but there are others which don't come readily to mind just now.

I have puzzled about why low hours engines are stolen, it may just be coincidental, because most, apart from those used for instruction, are low houred examples. Perhaps the stolen engines are used as cheap replacement for tired units.

[minesastella]

Here's some thoughts

So, 29 engines in 2016 and now 8 in the first month of 2017.

No use getting angry and imagining what we would do to them. We need to play to our strengths, share information, clues and intelligence AND get the forces of law and order to recognise and engage with the problem.

1) Do we really think that there was no "Recce" visit before someone waded in in the middle of the night and started removing engines ?. Failing that, Is there a common denominator somewhere in the form of a person within the community providing tip off's on security measures etc ?.

We should challenge strangers who appear at our airfields, note vehicle reg's, archive CCTV footage. The answers will be in there somewhere.

2) The most effective way to control the problem is to kill the demand. Registers of stolen serial no's are good - But the police will tell you that crooks have become so good at vehicle serial number fraud these days that neither they, nor the vehicle manufacturers can tell the difference. In actual fact lots of "ringers" only come to light from the vehicle electronics these days.

My suggestion would be to introduce an LAA / BMAA approved method of engraving the Aircraft reg on the top of the crankcase in a highly visible position. Yes, it could be ground off easily - but doing so would surely ring alarm bells to any prospective purchaser. If the reg is still there then there is always a trail back to the rightful owners. Similarly, smartwater / datatag are good - but not obvious enough to cause suspicion on their own.

Years ago I was at a motorcycle track day that was raided by the police. Turned out roughly 30% of the bikes had suspect vin numbers. At the time bike theft was rife, but the situation improved a lot when this sort of thing happened. We need to get this sort of Police support for our situation if we can. Random spot checks at fly in's ?.

3) We have more to offer the Police than we might realise. There have been several GA related people smuggling and drugs related convictions lately - surely the police need our support and vigilance here ?.

[onetrack]

DataDot is an excellent and very effective anti-theft measure, and can be applied to all components of an aircraft engine.
DataDot can be applied over a wide area, in hidden areas, to virtually any substrate - and attempts to remove DataDot applications totally, are unsuccessful.
It certainly won't stop dedicated thieves completely, but DataDot enables indentification of stolen engines and components once they have been "diverted".
All that is required in addition to DataDot application, is a database of stolen engines or components, which can be advertised widely and accessed by the public, by aircraft repair facilities, and by manufacturers.
Portable DataDot scanners can be run over engines or components at any time, surprising those who think their stolen items will never be uncovered.

Data Dot Technology goes DIY (http://www.caradvice.com.au/7836/data-dot-technology-goes-diy/)

DataDotDNA | Powerlite Generators (http://powerlite.com.au/product/datadotdna-2/)

[Hadley Rille]

Any effective measure is going to consist of a combination of methods.
I don't think beefed up hangars can be the answer although any improvement will slow them down and increase the window for catching them.
Remote cameras can be defeated by jammers but airfields are big places and if well-positioned may be effective, it just needs to work once to give us a chance.
Confronting them probably isn't the best idea but getting there in time to see the vehicle and identify it may be enough to put the police on their trail (perhaps). Tagged engines would help nail them and should be the minimum action taken.
Covert wildlife cameras won't be prone to jamming and even if only any use after a break in would give us more to go on than we appear to have at the moment (we won't be made aware of any police action so shouldn't assume nothing is being done).
The CAA and plane finder etc should stop advertising the location of peoples' valuable personal property.

[Jan Olieslagers]

The CAA and plane finder etc should stop advertising the location of peoples' valuable personal property.All your suggestions seem recommendable but this one is so obvious. In most European countries, the CAA published details per registration at one time but most or even all of that has been withdrawn - only the UK CAA stubbornly continues to offer valuable and effective information to the thieves.

I wonder why nobody is sueing them for breaches of privacy.

[ericferret]

What valuable and effective information would that be?
All I can see is the owners address. The aircraft could be parked in another country!!!

[rans6andrew]

The CAA don't advertise the location of peoples expensive property, only the postal address of the owner. Knowing where I live does not tell you where my aircraft is. The CAA, however, do give information about the owner, the aircraft age, the engine type, weight class and usage which I see as useful info when looking to buy a second hand aircraft..

Guessing that aircraft are at airfields during the night isn't rocket science.

It is unfortunate that the aircraft types that use the R912XXX engines are at the lighter end of the game and thus more likely to operate from out of the way grass airfields. Just the sort of places that are run by clubs rather than flying schools, shown in the Pooleys, AFE and Lockyers guides and marked on the charts. A quick look at the Events Calenders on several flying websites and in the flying mags will also tell you which airfields are likely to be used by these aircraft types. I get the feeling, but no firm data that most of the thefts have been from airfields which I only know because of their flyins.

The cost of these engines and their almost universal application is part of the problem. It doesn't help that shifting these engines is a one man task, even without any lifting gear.

The odds are stacked against light aircraft owners until we start doing more to improve our security. I don't know what the answer is. I tend to think that keeping ones flying site low key is a good thing. We are not allowed to have flying events or training activity at ours but if every one operated like this our flying would be poorer because of it.

Rans6.......

[Flyingmac]

My airfield has a number of Rotax powered aircraft. It also has eight cameras running 24/7. All linked to a telephone alarm. Add to that the movement triggered lighting after dark and we sleep soundly. Some nice photos of startled deer and foxes.


Simple cameras can be bought quite cheaply. I'm surprised at the lack of them at so many airfields. Multiple engines stolen, and not so much as a number plate to go on.


A quick Google found this. https://www.amazon.co.uk/KARE-Recorder-Pre-installed-Technology-Water-Proof/dp/B00BPMGUEC/ref=sr_1_5/254-7650391-8820951?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1486025062&sr=1-5


If there's no mains power, there are plenty that work from a car battery.
Wireless Camera System 12v - Lightinthebox.com (http://www.lightinthebox.com/Popular/Wireless_Camera_System_12v.html)

[Council Van]

ArthurG wroteIt makes me wonder why UK customs/border guards allow stolen stuff to leave the country so easily
Have you ever seen how many thousands of containers a ship can have on board, how many lorries cross the channel every day? It is just not possible to check every consignment leaving the Country

[patowalker]

All your suggestions seem recommendable but this one is so obvious. In most European countries, the CAA published details per registration at one time but most or even all of that has been withdrawn - only the UK CAA stubbornly continues to offer valuable and effective information to the thieves.

I wonder why nobody is sueing them for breaches of privacy.Probably because there is little chance of success. Today's searcheable aircraft registries are a way of complying with Article 21 of the 1944 Chicago Convention. The FAA registry (http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Aircraft_Inquiry.aspx) has been online for years and I would suggest that if it breached privacy laws, this would have been tested in a US court.

The French register (http://www.immat.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/immat/servlet/aeronef_liste.html) not only shows the owner/operator, but where the aircraft is based. However, in France most of the aircraft with Rotax engines are ULM and therfore not on the F register.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Yes, I did know about the FAA being very careless about people's privacy, but then they are in "the land of the free" ;)
Did not know about the French though, and indeed mentioning the home field is even worse than only giving the owner's address, which allows only guesses at the plane's home base.

[N707ZS]

Could these new small tracking devices for cats and dog be glued somewhere on the engine casing? Don't know how well they work.

[xrayalpha]

We have had engines - scrap ones - stolen from Strathaven. The hangars etc have cameras, but these were from aircraft left outside to be scrapped.

The reason they were scrapped was potential heat damage due to a hangar fire.

I hope the new owners discovered our engines' full potential!

G-INFO is a red herring. I am the only person at Strathaven who is shown as the owner of an aircraft based here with an address here - the other aircraft based here are registered at their owners' home or work addresses.

The fact that there is an airfield at Strathaven is common knowledge: it is marked on the charts with an "intense microlight activity" notation, it is in Pooleys, has been on Grand Designs and a few other things. The plane spotters produce an annual "bible" of aircraft and their locations too.

The hours on G-INFO are also a red herring: we have two C42s with 2,000+ hours on G-INFO. One has a new engine!

We know the engines stolen at Strathaven were by someone known to the pilots at Strathaven. I do not know exactly which person it was, but I have narrowed it down to about three people. Since there were several visits, it may even have been a couple of people. And at least one person has said they know the specific details.

Like Sutton Meadows, we are at the end of a a narrow road. You would need a lot of balls to spend hours in the middle of the night and have to explain to anyone who turned up why you were there - and we have people who come down in the middle of the night who work shifts! And, of course, I now live here full time.

I suspect the main reasons ours went were for parts and for sale in Asia. But I can see that Eastern Europe would be an attractive market.

Almost impossible to use in the UK - engine serial numbers are checked - of should be - at each Permit inspection.

Although 912s have a great reputation, Rotax part prices are phenomenal. I offered Simon at Eccleston Aviation an old 447 lying in a corner of the hangar for free. He said: you know new pistons are 250 quid each, you'd better keep it. I did, and a few months later needed two new pistons! Thanks Simon!

And have you seen the price of the electric magneto boxes!!!!

Or the £2,500+ for the white props on C42s!!!

Tracking devices work - a Porsche was tracked from England to the scrap yard in Strathaven! - but they need a power supply. Difficult to see how that could be attached to an engine.

[N707ZS]

Here's the advert. They must have a small battery, mate got one for his dog.


The easiest surefire way to prevent your car from being stolen | Techie Fans (http://techiefans.com/the-easiest-surefire-way-to-prevent-your-car-from-being-stolen-uk/?IM=A02E&TT=T05&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral&SID=crunchmind-frankiesfacts&TID=CiQ1OGRmNDZiNy0yYmM1LTQxYmYtYTc5OS01ZTAwM2NlNDdlMWUSFmFw b3J0YW1lZGlhbHRkc3BhaW4tc2M&sxid=062jc0316728)

[onetrack]

There is no one, simple, foolproof system for combatting serious theft. Multiple systems are needed. Apps and GPS systems don't talk to each other. Systems reliant on mobile (cell) phone systems can be defeated by moving outside tower coverage areas - of which there are still many, today. GPS tracking systems can be blocked by concrete walls and heavy roofing materials.

Simple substantial security is the best 1st step. Lock up expensive items in secure, well-lit buildings or secure rooms.
Position infra-red trail cameras along routes into or out of the area, that can clearly record number plates or faces.

Thieves have to move in or out of the selected target area, you catch them out while they are travelling to and from their target area, when they are relaxed, after they have their facial disguise removed or before they put it on.

You can see how many thieves/rapists/crims are caught by security cameras positioned at railway stations/busports/shops, usually a considerable distance from the crime scene.
They think they're safe, they are either still in the planning stages or they've completed the crime, and they think they've got away with it.

6 engines would need a commercial vehicle to carry them away, you wouldn't be throwing them in the back of a family sedan or estate wagon.
It would have been a big enclosed van, thus narrowing the vehicle search.

Traffic cameras record the movement of every vehicle through intersections with amazing clarity, and it's important that thefts are discovered and reported quickly, while the trail is still hot, and CCTV records are still available.

[xrayalpha]

Was going to by the TrackRs but then saw this article and the comments!

TrackR Bravo review - Review - PC Advisor (http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/review/digital-home/trackr-bravo-review-3633237/)

[N707ZS]

Forget that idea then.

[tubby linton]

It is not only aero engines that are being stolen.
Jaguar Land Rover Solihull site has engines 'worth £3m' stolen - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-38860695)

[SWBKCB]

Isn't the key "clue" here that it is only low hours engines which are being stolen? How are they identifying these?

[9 lives]

Though of limited application, I have sometimes installed specialized aircraft fasteners, as opposed to regular ones, to deter theft. Stopping theft is probably impossible, but making your property the least attractive as a target has merit.

When I purchased my all terrain vehicle many years ago, a thoughtful friend explained to me how easily three phillips screws could be removed, and its ignition bypassed, so it could be pull started, and driven away. The screws in those locations are no longer phillips, and will require a specialized aviation screwdriver to remove.

I'm sure that the authorities would be understanding and allow a fastener change, to a different suitable aviation quality fastener, if doing so would prevent theft. If engine mount nuts were to be replaced with the appropriate version of these:

https://www.allaero.com/images/products/47564.jpg

When installed, the hex snaps off. Special tools are required to remove them - but that's the point! Yes, it would make engine removal a little difficult, but how often do you do that anyway?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=huck+nut&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibzqe42_bRAhUM54MKHaX-CegQ_AUICCgB&biw=1280&bih=611#tbm=isch&q=HL70+nut&imgrc=QsDFiUhA3S8TJM:

[Shoestring Flyer]

From the photos I have seen I don't think the thieves mess around taking time undoing things. They look to me as if they simply cut and rip through everything, engine mount, pipes, hoses etc. It's just the basic engine they are after.

[onetrack]

Shoestring flyer is correct, thieves are in a hurry and take no care with removing anything. They often damage equipment or components so badly the item is substantially reduced in value, or sometimes only fit for parting out.
Battery-powered angle grinders fitted with thin metal-cutting discs, are unfortunately, one of the worst devices ever invented, to assist thieves in defeating security arrangements.

[False Capture]

Sadly, another 4 Rotax engines stolen last night. This time from Halwell microlight strip, south Devon.

It's bad enough when Exeter airport are trying to rob your airspace but when someone comes along and robs your engine as well ...

That's our summer's flying around the South Hams scuppered. I'd love to shoot the bast@rds who robbed our engines!

[POBJOY]

Plenty of 12volt security options available that can floodlight area (led lights) and also sound alarm.
Can be use in conjunction with very cheap (Hidden bird type) recording camera's. For less than £500 you can make quite a comprehensive system running off a leisure batt and solar charger. If the lights do not scare them off the camera's will capture great images.
On the basis that some sort of transport will have been used then a hidden camera on the 'way in / way out' is always a good back up. Another cheap (scare option) is to use a motorbike disc lock with built in alarm. This can be attached to engine and makes a terrible racket that can not be silenced without its special key (less than £30). I use the disc lock system to protect tools and tool boxes when out and about. Difficult to ignore someone carrying a screaming box !!!! Sorry you have been robbed, but 'remoteness' does not keep you safe.

[biscuit74]

Sadly, another 4 Rotax engines stolen last night. This time from Halwell microlight strip, south Devon.

It's bad enough when Exeter airport are trying to rob your airspace but when someone comes along and robs your engine as well ...

That's our summer's flying around the South Hams scuppered. I'd love to shoot the bast@rds who robbed our engines!

That is dreadful. You have my sympathy, for what it is worth. I quite understand your feeling - to see a well loved aircraft hacked about must be horrible.

Biscuit 74

[GS-Alpha]

Sorry to hear of this recent robbery. I cannot really imagine what it must feel like.

Is it mainly 912s being pinched or are the 914s just as targeted?

[rans6andrew]

We have been worrying about security of our Rotax engines and what we might do to prevent similar thefts at our airstrip. We don't have any services (electricity, phone or even water) on site so anything we do will need to be battery powered. We could arrange for solar to recharge a battery when the sun shines. We are also blessed with a very hostile neighbour who lives in the only property on the airfield. Whatever we do, we can't afford to suffer from false alarms creating a noise that this neighbour might complain about.

During our discussions it is clear that we don't really know what we are up against. We don't know enough detail about the previous thefts to know what we might have to protect against. We have some info, mostly gossip and rumour plus a bit on this thread.

Specifically, would any of the previous victims care to share with us details about their site access (gated? Locked at night? Distance to nearest inhabited residence? etc) and then more important stuff like type of hangar (individual ""T or large barn multi occupancy etc), hangar construction (concrete, sectional or solid, steel clad, poly tunnel, open fronted etc) and whether access was gained through aircraft size door, man sized door, window or by cutting through the wall somewhere.

Then, do you think that a previous site reccy was carried out? Was there something to suggest that the intruders had knowledge of the security of the location which would not have been clear to someone turning up after dark? Do you think the thefts took place at night?

Did you have a day when a lot of visitors were on the site, the hangars were left open, the aircraft types/registrations were visible etc?

This information would help all of us to assess our risk factors and where the weaknesses in our security lies.

Lastly, what sort of alarm and response would you recommend? We have reservations about driving 10 or 15 miles to a remote location, in the dead of night, to confont we don't know what. It might be satisfying to collect all the members of a baseball team (with their equipment) and beat 7 shades of effluent out of someone but the repercussions might be bad.

Is good insurance the best/only answer?

Rans.........

[m.Berger]

Carry a couple of shovels and plant the swine. Nobody knows they are there.
Seriously, though, insurance is the only safeguard. Wretched, isn't it.