Bought myself a drone and anorak [Archive]

piperboy84

13th Jan 2017, 11:28

Hearing all this stuff about drones so went out and bought myself one. The verdict? absolutely amazing machine the autopilot and stability are outstanding. I watch the kids play Call of Duty with those Playstations and take a turn every now and then but get shot within 5 seconds because I cant get my head around the controls, I thought the drone would be the same so I enlisted the kid to fly it in case I crashed. I eventually took the controls and found its so easy. I took off from the airstrip flew to my house about 3/4 of a mile away then had the autopilot fly it back and land. Again, absolutely amazing! And it doesn't burn 35 litres an hour either

Here's a vid for those that are interested

https://www.facebook.com/DuncanIanRobertson/videos/vb.701826107/10154988110806108/?type=2&theater&notif_t=like&notif_id=1484308796274928

PDR1

13th Jan 2017, 11:42

I'm not sure where you are, but if you are in the UK you have probably just broken the law! Flight without continuous line-of-sight contact (by you or an attending "safety pilot") and autonomous flight are both illegal here.

PDR

piperboy84

13th Jan 2017, 12:05

Really, are u serious? that was illegal? it was line of sight the whole flight otherwise the radio and live streaming would not have worked.

clareprop

13th Jan 2017, 12:06

I'm not sure where you are, but if you are in the UK you have probably just broken the law!

Wow, that must be a record for drone-police comment!

I have to admit I only watched bits but which part shows 'out of line of sight' flying?

I also have a drone which is used for professional purposes but I would never risk 'out of line of sight' for the simple reason you also lose the control and image signals.

Piltdown Man

13th Jan 2017, 12:24

What a lovely part of the world! And impressive picture quality as well. Also may I add my name to the list of those who want to know what sort of beastie this is.

PM

PDR1

13th Jan 2017, 13:11

Really, are u serious? that was illegal? it was line of sight the whole flight otherwise the radio and live streaming would not have worked.

In the UK the ANO requirement (CAP 658 art.94) (3) says:

The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions.

You cannot see a small multicopter sufficient to achieve that at a range of 3/4mile.

I haven't looked at the video; I was just going from the description (will look at the video when I get home) but please note that if the video is the recorded feed from the FPV camera then you may also have fallen foul of the greater restrictions in art.95 because the vehicle becomes a SUSA rather than just an SUA.

I'm not trying to interfere with anyone's fun*, but you need to understand the law if you play with one of these things!

PDR

* I've been an RC flyer for over 40 years (before and during my PPL period, and continued after I let the PPL lapse), and have messed with both LoS and FPV multicopters ever since they first became possible.

clareprop

13th Jan 2017, 13:19

If I were you PDR1, I'd stow my shovel right about now because you are digging a hole you're not going to get out of.

I feel this subject may drone over to Jetblast at any moment. :=

Expatrick

13th Jan 2017, 13:34

Seems to me that there is the possibility of confusion between "direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft" and "line of sight", as evidenced by the OP's reference to radio streaming.

coldair

13th Jan 2017, 13:38

Well said Clare, :D

I'm very tempted to get one of these myself, sounds like a lot of fun and a potentially useful tool too.

coldair

Jan Olieslagers

13th Jan 2017, 14:11

What's the anorak doing in the story? Isn't anorak UK slang, more or less equivalent to USA slang nerd ?

alex90

13th Jan 2017, 14:21

piperboy84 isn't flying over populated area, he is flying lower than legal restrictions, is in line of sight at all times... I personally might not be able to spot a drone half a mile away without glasses, but with glasses and/or binoculars, I'd be surprised if I couldn't!

I think there are no ground to consider this a dangerous / illegal act, and actually a very responsible flight of a small fun quadcopter!

Anyway - much more responsible than the few I've encountered at 2,000' and up to 8,000'!! A couple which I had to take evasive action!

Enjoy your toy!! (only mildly jealous!)

sophi

13th Jan 2017, 14:22

Yep, I'm going to buy one too. Will see how far out of sight I can get it to fly.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

13th Jan 2017, 14:34

I sometimes get to play with this one at work. The technology in there is amazing. I am currently developing that patch of land to the right and using the drone to get shots to help me plan it was a godsend. (the second image on here is heavily compressed, the original is MASSIVE).

piperboy84

13th Jan 2017, 14:40

What's the anorak doing in the story? Isn't anorak UK slang, more or less equivalent to USA slang nerd ?

1606

Its a DJI Phantom 4, got it off Amazon for £900 and spend another £100+ on extra battery and accessories, girlfriend says she seen them on the telly for £30 then asked how much I paid for mine, I said "somewhere in that region";)

piperboy84

13th Jan 2017, 14:46

Really, I know it's PPRuNe and people write all manner of schit on here, but you bought a "Drone" without finding anything online or in the box suggesting that you need to be able to see it while you operate it?

Nobody in the sales process suggested that you google the rules on operating them? Not even the wee voice in the back of your head?

You really bought one (your first) which is so big, that you can see it ¾ of a mile away?

Can't see the bugger 100 yards away never mind 3/4 of a mile, eyes are knackered. If I wanted something I could see all the time I would have attached a gopro to a balloon on a 50ft string.

piperboy84

13th Jan 2017, 14:48

You bought a DJI product that came without the http://dronesafe.uk/wp-content/uploa.../Dronecode.pdf leaflet in the box?

I'm the type of guy that reads the instruction after I've got it all put together and only if there are extra pieces left over. Otherwise its fire it up and go

noflynomore

13th Jan 2017, 14:51

I thought the limits were 500m distance and 400' height both of which appear to have been exceeded here. God knows how you can see a drone at 500m in order to control it though. I couldn't manage that with a 6ft span radio controlled aeroplane so no chance with a biddy little drone. imo they're a menace to low level aviation.

If I was still flying helicopters these things would be giving me sleepless nights, sooner or later one of these things operating outside its parameters will take a law-abiding helicopter out, or some prat will use one on the Mach Loop to get better pics. Just wait!

piperboy84

13th Jan 2017, 14:54

But you didn't think to google "uk drone rules" before getting into this?

Nah, I've got a pilots license so I'm pretty well boned up on airspace rules. So it comes down to common sense really, don't faff around near landing traffic, don't try and race the weightshifters, don't annoy the neighbors, don't land near the dug etc. Oh and most importantly put the copter in self hover before trying to light a fag.

clareprop

13th Jan 2017, 14:57

To those who don't actually own a drone but nevertheless feel able to comment about them knowledgeably, some information.
I have a 'mid-level professional' drone, the one piperboy has looks to me like it is a DJI entry level pro device. Both have a very comprehensive firmware suite which is constantly being updated automatically. For instance, the firmware restricts height. It also installs a constantly updated database of airfields and restricted zones which stops the drone flying in those locations. Some restrictions (if you perhaps have permission to film at an airfield) may be over ridden by registered users. The drones in question also have high-intensity illumination which means they can be seen from a very long distance. Most professional users however, do not use them at a distance much further than 250 metres. Toy drones, in the main don't have these features nor do they have the intelligent flight management systems of the expensive drones. This means they get lost, crash, have rubbish cameras and the owners quickly get bored of their 200gm piece of plastic thereby removing whatever tiny risk such a device might present. My drone cost over £4000. The entry level pro drones cost at least £1000 with the various bits and pieces. They get looked after.

TimGriff6

13th Jan 2017, 15:05

I'm the type of guy that reads the instruction after I've got it all put together and only if there are extra pieces left over. Otherwise its fire it up and go

Way to go!!

PDR1

13th Jan 2017, 15:15

Can't see the bugger 100 yards away never mind 3/4 of a mile, eyes are knackered. If I wanted something I could see all the time I would have attached a gopro to a balloon on a 50ft string.

If this is true then you have broken the law, and I seriously recommend you delete the video (and amend your remarks on here) if you don't want to get into hot water!

The CAA have people allocated to tracking down those who post the evidence of their own actions on the internet because they really aren't stupid!

Your choice, of course. But a conviction for an ANO violation could have ramifications for your PPL/CPL (in the same way that a conviction for riding a pushbike while drunk will cost you your driving licence).

Personally I'm an RC flyer, including multicopters, and I'm embarrassed by the attitude you are showing - it's the sort of thing that causes the rest of us so much grief.

PDR

treadigraph

13th Jan 2017, 15:41

he's not the devil, he's only a very naughty boy.

With a very large bulge in one cheek...

FakePilot

13th Jan 2017, 17:03

Can someone send me a list of documents to read to make sure I am in compliance for everything? Can the government send me a certificate that I'm current with all rules and regulations?

PDR1

13th Jan 2017, 17:08

If you were to have bought a DJI Phantom product you wouldn't need to have them sent - they are included in the box.

But as we all know, "ignorance of the law is no defence". This is probably even more true in aviation than in other fields.

PDR

YODI

13th Jan 2017, 17:38

I have a Phantom 4 too, I also work at an Aerodrome so maybe a little more cautious than most but you really should read the rules before flying your drone 3/4's of a mile away.

For your information, that can do 3.2 miles on the standard aerials, and more with extenders so assuming it's okay because you are picking up signal is wrong.

GS-Alpha

13th Jan 2017, 18:18

Sadly Piperboy84 represents your typical drone pilot, and that's the reason why I think it is inevitable that the law is eventually going to have to become pretty draconian wrt drones.

Chuck Glider

13th Jan 2017, 18:31

I don't know piperboy84 but I suspect he's taking the piss. But maybe the flared nostril brigade are taking it right back. Who knows.

hobbit1983

13th Jan 2017, 19:10

This one is going to go and go. *gets popcorn*

Seriously though, sooner or later there will be a CAT/drone collision. Regs say you're supposed to keep it in visual contact etc etc, not near airports. But a cursory reading of recent airproxes most certainly suggests people aren't following ze rules!

(I'm not suggesting piperboy is taking this piss. But then, I'm not saying he's not either.)

SpeedbirdXK8

13th Jan 2017, 19:24

piperboy84 - do you have aviation related liability insurance?

piperboy84

13th Jan 2017, 19:34

I'm not sure how much more a leaflet, brochure or CAA guidelines can improve on operational safety over and above the extensive software features already built in to the drone that the designer appears to have had using the copter in places like Scotland in mind when s/he designed it.

First.officer

13th Jan 2017, 20:35

Nah, I've got a pilots license so I'm pretty well boned up on airspace rules. So it comes down to common sense really, don't faff around near landing traffic, don't try and race the weightshifters, don't annoy the neighbors, don't land near the dug etc. Oh and most importantly put the copter in self hover before trying to light a fag.

This guy has it all correct IMHO - especially the part about the ciggy.....although I find the downdraught really makes them a sod to light, so am going to buy a small gas turbine that I leave running, by the side of me. Will OBVIOUSLY do a full risk assessment first. Goes without say really....

Enjoy it piperboy84.....had a P4 before, was terrific for fun.....

topradio

13th Jan 2017, 20:42

[QUOTE=PDR1;9639719]

Your choice, of course. But a conviction for an ANO violation could have ramifications for your PPL/CPL (in the same way that a conviction for riding a pushbike while drunk will cost you your driving licence).

Not in the UK it won't:=

Sam Rutherford

13th Jan 2017, 20:44

We have the same drone - absolutely amazing what it can do, and the stability of the video it shoots. No leaflet with ours (thank you eBay)!

What is interesting is that it refused to fly in airspace - kind of a pain for the takeoffs and landings we were filming. But, there's an override...

So, fly safe and responsibly people!

octavian

14th Jan 2017, 08:19

Loving your work piperboy84 Looks like a lot of fun. I'm going to go and get one myself. 😃

ozbeck

14th Jan 2017, 10:54

"Anoraknophobia"

A fear of train spotters!

Renmure

14th Jan 2017, 22:29

..... don't try and race the weightshifters Hmmm. A race you say?? :p

Nice video.

piperboy84

15th Jan 2017, 01:34

Hmmm. A race you say?? :p

Nice video.

The girlfriend called me this morning while she was driving from town to the airstrip and said " I see your drone in the air, quit following me you sad bastard" as I was sitting in the office putting the propellers on MY drone!
It would appear I'm not the only perv in neighborhood.

Dan Winterland

15th Jan 2017, 02:16

I saw a DJI Phantom 4 about three weeks ago. It was at 8200ft and the fact I could identify it while passing it at 250 knots indicates how close we were! Where this encounter occurred, the drone was being operated illegally.

clareprop

15th Jan 2017, 07:58

Chuck Glider

15th Jan 2017, 09:10

First.officer

15th Jan 2017, 09:27

Without entering the debate on fair/unfair, I'm guessing clareprop may well have been inferring that mis-identification of the offending(?) drone in question, as far as I'm aware the P4 is limited to a ALT MAX of 390ft (500ft with a little tweaking).

I suspect the drone in question would be of another variety - that said, am sure the more technically mined could perhaps 'tweak' the P4's firmware to allow increased altitudes to be reached (doubt 8,200ft for a p4 IMHO! no battery heating etc., etc.).....maybe not.....but of course, this doesn't detract from the fact if there was a drone at 8,200ft, without the relevant PfCO, RA and permission for CAS flight, and a reason to be there - :eek:

7of9

15th Jan 2017, 10:38

Drone Insurance.

FPV UK Store, Membership (http://www.fpvuk.org/store/)

Drone Guide for Beginners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3yokRg9_s&t=67s

Drone Assist.

Drone Assist | Dronesafe (http://dronesafe.uk/drone-assist/)

CAA Drone Code.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Consumers/Model-aircraft-and-drones/Flying-drones/

Drone Courses + qualification

Professional Drone Training | Flyby Technology (http://www.flyby-technology.com/professional-training?gclid=CPq0wtaHxNECFesp0wodjE4D8g)

I have a Phantom 3 Standard, Haven't flown it yet due to weather but have done my research as a PPL & Will be paying insurance before i venture out.

Hope this helps other responsible owners.

ExRAFRadar

15th Jan 2017, 11:22

Well I know what I am asking for next Xmas.

Chuck Glider

15th Jan 2017, 11:25

Perhaps there was high ground 500ft below at 7700ft AMSL.

clareprop

15th Jan 2017, 14:43

That seems unfair, Clare.

Trust me, it isn't.
Firstly, the Phantom 4 or 3 cannot fly at that altitude due to firmware restrictions. Secondly, to be able to tell the difference between a Phantom 4 or 3 (or probably any other drone) at 250 knots is impossible.

Steve6443

15th Jan 2017, 16:28

I thought my two photographs had already made that obvious to all.

At about 385 feet per second, I think he was moving away from it too fast to know what it was.

You forget the power of Google Glasses.:hmm: He looked at it, Google glasses took a picture, sent it t'Internet thingy and hey presto, it showed him what it was, where he could buy it and which lawyer would be most useful in trying to avoid prosecution, should he indeed fly one illegally

:O:O:O:O

JW411

15th Jan 2017, 16:59

PB: you're doing a great job. The teuchters are fair leapin' oot o' the burn.

terry holloway

15th Jan 2017, 19:57

Hands up then! You are breaking the rules! Was it you I missed at 3,000 ft?

Big Pistons Forever

16th Jan 2017, 04:41

I wonder what will take down the first airliner, the criminal morons targeting lasers or the criminal morons flying drones on the approach path to major airports ?

dont overfil

16th Jan 2017, 09:19

Hands up then! You are breaking the rules! Was it you I missed at 3,000 ft?
Not unless you were in the Glens o' Angus or LA.;)

S-Works

16th Jan 2017, 10:18

I have a Phantom 4 Drone and its geofenced around airports. You have to positively over ride it to operate. Perhaps we should be looking at taking action against people who do so without good reason?

piperboy84

16th Jan 2017, 12:47

I have a Phantom 4 Drone and its geofenced around airports.

I wonder what the drone makers qualifier is for an "airport" Jepp or some other database?

S-Works

16th Jan 2017, 13:14

Good question....

noflynomore

16th Jan 2017, 14:00

its geofenced around airports. You have to positively over ride it to operate.

It seems rather naiive to imagine that this would have any effect whatsoever on a large proportion, if not a large majority of drone-buyers. No non-flying member of the public has any concept of airspace at all, it's as likely to work as locked door with a key in it stops you going outside.

S-Works

16th Jan 2017, 14:13

I think thats unduly harsh. All the drone operators that I know understand the reason for the geofencing and respect it. Its quite difficult to over ride so I would suggest that someone consciously over riding is opening them selves to punitive action if they are doing so without legitimate reason.

I am just in the process of gaining CAA approvals to operate drones commercially and to train on them. I think education is the key.

spargazer

16th Jan 2017, 16:31

This has got to be AAIB reportable,how do I do it? I went to the AAIB website and had no joy at all http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bm-toy-helicopter-hit-boy-12459026#rlabs=2%20rt$sitewide%20p$16

S-Works

16th Jan 2017, 16:44

It's not AIB it will be an MOR.

piperboy84

16th Jan 2017, 17:25

Getting a bit silly reporting a kid getting a knock from his toy helicopter to the AAIB, would you run down to the cops or DVLA if he had taken a header over the handlebars of his push bike or called in DEFRA if his ferret had bitten him?

spargazer

16th Jan 2017, 17:52

I noted that a bouncy castle once became airborne and the AAIB were all over the place. The AAIB (via trading standards) were also quick to clear out shops in the Manchester area of chinese lanterns

piperboy84

16th Jan 2017, 18:12

And they should, those damned Chinese lanterns are best staying in China, they're a fire hazard coming down in a open barn full of bales.

clareprop

16th Jan 2017, 19:27

they're a fire hazard coming down in a open barn full of bales.

I thought they only came down when the burner goes out? :p

First.officer

16th Jan 2017, 19:34

I noted that a bouncy castle once became airborne and the AAIB were all over the place

Well, they were far too old to have been on it in the first place....

WRT to the "Manchester Helicopter Incident" - really?!?!?

If I was a cynical sod (okay, I am!), I'd say that it was more to do with suing the manufacturer of said toy and gleaning some money than the actual "injury" caused....did the helicopter also narrowly avoid the local school?

think of the untold injury and suffering that could have happened there had the "pilot" not narrowly managed to heroically steer the craft away from disaster...oh wait, he couldn't because the massively regulated, highly expensive helicopter in question (all £29.99 of it) totally failed in it's design brief.

Lets hope the AAIB are able to fully investigate, and pull the maintenance and tech. log for this obviously poorly maintained aircraft. :E

spargazer

19th Jan 2017, 22:19

Cattle have been known to eat the remains and die, also several crash landed on Manchester airport and it was closed for two hours meaing hundreds of holidays were ruined,

Dan Winterland

24th Jan 2017, 10:17

I saw a DJI Phantom 4 about three weeks ago. It was at 8200ft and the fact I could identify it while passing it at 250 knots indicates how close we were!

From that comment, anyone here with a professional DJI Phantom drone will have instantly formed an opinion about you and your knowledge.

I think you missed the point. I was flying an airliner and nearly hit the thing. I recognised it as a Phantom (a mate has one - it wasn't his though), it was white with yellow features and on googling, it appears it may have bee a 3 rather than a 4. But 3 or 4, it doesn't matter. The result would have been the same had I hit it.

Dan Winterland

24th Jan 2017, 10:34

Firstly, the Phantom 4 or 3 cannot fly at that altitude due to firmware restrictions. Secondly, to be able to tell the difference between a Phantom 4 or 3 (or probably any other drone) at 250 knots is impossible.

Not so. Geo-fencing is easily disabled and so is the altitude restriction. A booster pack is available to give extended range. This encounter was just south of Tung Lung island in Hong Kong's airspace, about 1 mile south of the TD VOR, in controlled airspace. That's quite a way from the airport and I suspect it was outside the geo-fencing, but it was still in controlled airspace. Some of the terrain is up to 3000ft in that area, so the operator could be on high ground. As for being a 3 or a 4, as I said before - it doesn't effing matter. It shouldn't have been there! This incident was filed as a MOR.

In Hong Kong, drones come under the ordinances pertaining to model aircraft and are limited by law to 160m altitude. This is the fourth close miss my airline had had with drones in as many months in HKG airspace, with one at 4500ft and another at 300ft on the approach

As part of my office job, I also sit on one of the airport safety committees. Last week, the meeting spent a lot of time discussing the issue. All I can say is that further restrictions are coming the aviation authority are pressing the Government for further protection for aviation thanks to a few irresponsible drone owners.

piperboy84

24th Jan 2017, 10:55

Well I've been flying the sh$t out of my drone for a few weeks now and my verdict is they should all be banned immediately . They are a total invasion of privacy. The only people that should be allowed to use them are cops (but they must get a warrant first clearly stating the reason and need) or commercial operators under strict guidelines that they retain either a video or track log info of the entire flight that is made available to the public upon request under a FOI type deal.

These things are going to start a lot of lawsuits and arguments and probably wars between banana republics. I can see every nosey bastard, pervert and busybody getting one and annoying the **** out of people.

Ban them now.