View Full Version : Captain shortage or poor conditions?
rumbpilot
6th Jan 2017, 16:28
I had never seen so many ads for quick upgrade jobs, is this a sign of a shortage or just the usual failure to attract qualified capts due to poor conditions? Why they don't increase the terms instead? Ther's even 2 chineese airlines, the package doesn't look too bad...:8
Obviously captains or senior FO Shortage due to poor conditions. If they want to contract all the pilots that takes their families and went to ME or Asia they will have to increase considerably the conditions. All the LCC in Europe are watching each other for delaying as much as posible but the fact is that there is not a magic way and the economical crisis has passed so not to many birds in the air flying for peanuts at this time.
Things are things.
Dan Winterland
7th Jan 2017, 02:57
It's a bit of everything. There are more pilots required, but less available. Several experienced pilots have recently left my company to quite flying altogether. The working conditions are worse than before, they've just had enough. And I know how they feel!
I get the same e-mails - same old companies. Lots in China, where the working conditions as so poor that not even the big $ will attract the pilots - and new low cost hopefuls like small planet where the remuneration is pants.
Were now at a place where the constantly decreasing terms and conditions have made this job much less attractive and there are not enough pilots. The industry has driven this in the race for more profits and have painted themselves into a corner.
rumbpilot
7th Jan 2017, 06:44
I agree it's probably a bit of everything. Some of those offers (links removed now) were from lowcost airlines which notoriously offer low salaries, but there are even 3 chineese airlines offering packages in the region of 20000$ and above with commuting and one was even for long haul, how come they don't get enough applicants?
Another thing that I find surprising is that 2 of those offer are from lufthansa group airlines, I thought the union was very strong there and would prevent things like this...
Eurowings Europe (not to be confused with Eurowings germany which isn't hiring) is basically the union buster airline within the lufthansa group, built specifically for that purpose by the management within union. As it is based in Austria the german unions do not have any reach there.
Pretty much the same holds true for Sunexpress germany which is actually a joint venture with turkish airlines and not unionised.
safelife
7th Jan 2017, 08:20
People complain a lot about Norwegian Air International paying low salaries. As far as I know a captain on 787 get get 9000 Euro net.
An Airbus A330 captain with SunExpress Germany (Eurowings livery) has about 6800 euros, before German tax!
Really? that is about 2k less than an FO with airberlin, who will fly A320s for the Eurowings brand.
APU_inop
7th Jan 2017, 11:33
I agree it's probably a bit of everything. Some of those offers (links removed now) were from lowcost airlines which notoriously offer low salaries, but there are even 3 chineese airlines offering packages in the region of 20000$ and above with commuting and one was even for long haul, how come they don't get enough applicants?
I haven't been there myself but hearing from colleagues:
The medical, bureaucracy, hygiene, pollution, culture, safety, CRM, contracts not being respected, language barrier, distance to go home etc.
An Airbus A330 captain with SunExpress Germany (Eurowings livery) has about 6800 euros, before German tax!
Stop spreading nonsense.
330 salary is around 9000€ +OT + per diems.
Should be around the 5k net+ mark. Not the best salary but still better than 7k gross.
APU_inop
7th Jan 2017, 11:37
People complain a lot about Norwegian Air International paying low salaries. As far as I know a captain on 787 get get 9000 Euro net.
There's the problem with taxes for many since the employment form is quite... creative.
An Airbus A330 captain with SunExpress Germany (Eurowings livery) has about 6800 euros, before German tax!
The net salary is roughly a little bit more than half of what a WB F/O makes in the ME. The Eurowings-gig only seems to attract people who wants to live close to Cologne.
Some companies quote the usual tripe of "the reason for our crew shortage is that there aren't enough qualified candidates out there." Nonsense, it's just that your Ts & Cs are crap and therefore the crew you're trying to attract aren't interested. They don't want to work like dogs for poor salaries and no home life just so you can pay the ridiculous salaries of the greedy fat cats at the top. Forward-thinking airlines (a rare breed I know) who take a genuine interest in the welfare of their staff (again rare) generally have no problem recruiting.
You can have the best managers in the world running your airline but without crew your aircraft aren't going anywhere, and you need to realise that!
oicur12.again
7th Jan 2017, 16:56
The key to recruiting WB skippers is local bases. No one wants to spend 6 weeks on time in Chengdu followed by just 2-3 weeks off.
Offer more local bases in western countries and all sorts of PIC's will come out of the woodwork.
I have quit the longhaul/contract/WB game to return to the RHS of a locally based narrow body.
AND LOVING IT!!!!
Norwegean pay about 10.5K € and that is before tax and only if you get a Euro base otherwise its about 8500GBP on a LGW base and you are struggling with the exchange rate.
Eurowings does not have a CGN base, its VIE and PMI and it attracts people from other low Budget companies or guys who want a fast command.
@Denti you can't compare a 12 year AB FO with a 2 year Cpt at any other company.
Then compare a one year CPT, around 150k a year at AB.