CX Recruitment Ban

[Mister Geezer]

My question is, just how many people are taking notice of the recruitment ban? Has anyone tunred their back and accepted an offer of employment.

I am just very curious as to what the real figure is.

MG :)

[pilotabroad]

I don't know how many have fallen for the lies and intimidation of the HKAOA, but all courses are full until about March next year (when actively starting new joiners, 20 start per month)

[Mister Geezer]

So the ban is not working then? :) :)

[Brenoch]

what a surprise.. :rolleyes:

[ironbutt57]

Good to hear it....just wait 'till the union tossers start posting....if indeed they really are......aka Frankg, kaptin M etc....etc..oops had to edit....almost forgot Kubota:D :D :D :D :p ;) :rolleyes:

[questions]

I was wondering if CX hires people of Asian decent who are below the pub. 1000 tt. I have heard rumours, and I am curious to see if it is at all true. If anyone would reply it would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.

[Kubota]

Almost all our cadets have no flying time at all when they start but you need at least to have Hong Kong permanent residency or (in some cases) be an employee of Cathay Pacific with a work visa. To the best of my knowledge, Cathay has never hired anyone with less than 1000 hours as an F/O or S/O, irrespective of national or ethnic origin, despite the rumours.

[Kubota]

Butt, come on down...

We're waiting for the overopinionated loudmouth from the sandpit with '57 time. I can hardly wait. What a fun time we'll have...you, me, two long-time AOA members and a 14-hour HKG-YYZ sector.

[Burger Thing]

Kubota, you sound like a true professional... It must be a pleasure to explore your IQ on a 14hrs trip.

[VR-HFX]

Kubota-san

No need to rise to Butt and Burger Thing...they have each other...probably 50yo meat meets 30yo buns....

On a more sober note, it is time for some serious change of approach before the typhoon season starts in earnest and the collective fuses burn very low again.

The reason the house always wins is that they have more time and money than each of us individually. The reason Kerry Packer wins is that the position is reversed. The first rule of gambling is, don't do it unless you have more time and money than the casino.

Realistically therefore the AOA position as it stands is untenable. Many might think that ND stepping off the stage will get things back on track. Afterall it has been widely quoted that senior management won't talk while ND is in the chair. The reality is that they won't talk as long as ND or anyone who espouses the view that the AOA is anymore than the 'Buena Vista Social Club'
is in the chair.

We all know that senior management choose not too engage in any meaningful manner. This is partly personality driven but if you recall, DT's predecessor used to engage, but that in itself didn't help when the gravy train was derailed and they wanted some of their carriages back.

In order for a sustainable dialogue to exist and in order to create an environment where genuine concerns are at least acknowledged, we are all going to have to let management be on top in this romp.

Charles Dickens would have felt right at home, but there it is...

As you so succinctly described with your two pail analogy, we do have a choice but in terms of how we get more of the green and less of the brown...Oliver Twist is, I am very much afraid, the least pungent option.

[Burger Thing]

VR-HFX, a verry literate response. I like the music of 'Buena Vista Social Club', ;) But whatever your problems are there with your company, it should never ever affect your work in the cockpit. Reading Kubota's statement raised some doubts regarding his attitude to his profession. But then again, it's an anonymous internet forum, and all kind of nonsense is posted here anyway. Maye Kubota is in reality a nice guy. :rolleyes:

Cheers

[The Fan Man]

Like I've said before ,

People are joining fast and the non union members are increasing, unless some of the unionists are willing to swallow their pride and "retreat and re-group", nothing is going to be achieved besides a good old mexican stand off.

Like a spoilt brat the AOA and some of it's militant members are digging their heels in to the detrement of everyone else in the company.

Will you people ever see the light?

FAN MAN

[Brenoch]

We're waiting for the overopinionated loudmouth from the sandpit with '57 time. I can hardly wait. What a fun time we'll have...you, me, two long-time AOA members and a 14-hour HKG-YYZ sector.

Sounds a bit like the teamsters back in the 30:ies..
Very civilized.. :rolleyes:

[The Fan Man]

I find it quite amusing that there are only 4 or 5 people that are continuously posting on pprune in favour of the recruitment ban.

It just goes to show how weak their childish ploys are, and the lack of support from fellow CX pilots.

PPRUNE is a gateway for pilots from all over the world to join together , share information and release aviation related news.

Out of 1600 or so CX pilots the same old three stooges are posting the same old garbage , with threats of intimidation. There seems to be a major lack of support here from other CX drivers. Obviously they do not support the ban , because if they did they would be doing what they can to spread the word and support the cause.

Very few are.

Can I just clap my hands a few times and say “BRAVO BRAVO” what a wonderful job you’ve done and how successful your ploys have been. The support you have is overwhelming.

365 days have passed and you’re becoming more divided day by day. Excellent work folks you must be proud. You sit here and post your rubbish , threaten new hires , ring up guys in the middle of the night and before you know it , you’ll be asking for their help once you finally wake up to yourselves and realise that the company has met their objectives and divided you all.

Call me old and silly but , you folks need a reality check and the sooner you wake up the better.

I’ve never once agreed with the sackings of the 49’ers, but at least I can assess the situation objectively.

FAN MAN

[ironbutt57]

yup can picture it...would most certainly need a pair of wellies....and when the fuel control switches were closed at the gate...you 3 would still be whining:p ;)

[6feetunder]

Well then that says it. Can't expect any support from colleagues in the industry, ones that post here anyway. You know the same can be said the other way Fan Fag. Over 100,000 IFALPA members haven't come on here in opposition to the ban either, just you lot. What is it 5 or 6?

[Kaptin M]

Seems that the same - "I find it quite amusing that there are only 4 or 5 people that are continuously posting on pprune...AGAINST the recruitment ban." - might be thrown back at YOU, The Fan Man, for those wishing to check registration dates.

Add to YOUR list of favourities our resident F/E, TinAss, whose highly intelligent :confused: posts ALWAYS add SO much to the direction of the debate. :rolleyes:

The "Recruitment Ban" has - and IS - well publicised.
I doubt that there would be a pilot (who is qualified to apply) ANYWHERE in the world who is NOT aware of it.
Without a doubt, the ban has SEVERELY limited the QUANTITY and QUALITY of applicants to CX, forcing Cathay to accept pilots who would probably have been otherwise UNacceptable.
"Rejects", in a word!

From that aspect, the "Recruitment Ban" can be viewed as being successful! :D

[VR-HFX]

Fan Man

Best stay away from CX..I would hate to see you to run into the pail of brown stuff...

Your post is simplistic and naive.

To be frank, it is only a small group who can be bothered trying to explain the situation to a similarly small group that appears it does not wish to be confused with facts.

One year ago a core sample was taken from the pilot community and disposed of in a manner that defies one of the basic precepts of human decency. Namely due process.

Noone in the pilot body at the time knew the background to all the cases. Noone personally knew more than a handful of the people who were terminated.
Noone is pretending that we do not have the occasional odd-ball in our midst from time to time.

BUT EVERYONE in the body of the CX pilot community was appalled at the method by which these executions were carried out. It was as if we were all kicked in the you know whats at the same time (with the greatest respect to the ladies now in our midst).

Following the initial shock there was naturally a backlash, a normal human reaction to strike back. Regrettably ( with the benefit of hindsight) this reaction was tempered by a number of things:

A residual of goodwill in the ranks toward the company.
A professional ethic that says we are not really a bunch of thugs.
A belief that these executions were a negotiating tactic and not irreversible given due process AND
Genuine fear.

It gradually became apparent (again with the benefit of hindsight) that management had made a conscious strategic decision to crush the AOA and reduce it to a creche handling social events and a library resource for those wanting to read up on 18 tyre wet runway performance or how to moderate your sleep patterns with vodka.

Wounded and frightened, the AOA decided it could not withdraw its labour, so it tried to incite the bull to have another charge by hanging little yellow and black ribbons everywhere. Martyrdom became a strategy ŽÐ Gandhi the script.

I wonŽÕt re-hash all the facts that have been well documented, but suffice it to say, a Mexican standoff ensued.

September 11 created an opportunity for all sides to get together again but they failed to do so in any meaningful way. If you want some material for a new ŽÔYes Prime MinsterŽÕ series, listen to the CD of the exploratory meeting between the AOA and management that took place late October last. An exercise in pedantry at best.

What we have today is a marriage on its last gasp. No communication creates the appearance of relative calm. It is in reality the manifestation of a total breakdown in the relationship. The thin thread that remains is perhaps a romantic attachment to the CX of old and a naÉ×e belief that, given enough counseling, the marriage can be saved. The other party appears to be arguing the case that there never was a marriage in law or de-facto. The relationship was, is and should forever more be master and servant.

The IFALPA ban is another manifestation of the yellow ribbon strategy.

The bull however refuses to charge. Instead it stands, snorting, scraping the dust and staring. It has no interest in having all those little annoying
banderilla stuck in its neck. Eventually the crowd will go home and the bull will once again be master of the ring.

CX used to be a mixed but generally happy band of campers doing their best to ensure that the rusty old bolts kept flying. The rusty old bolts were all replaced by shiny new equipment and the shed at Kai Tak by a gleaming new edifice at CLK affectionately referred to as Hello Kitty City.

The hardware is what you will all see first. And splendid and alluring it is. The software deficiencies, however, only become apparent once you have entered the lobster pot.

FWIW, the IFALPA ban does at least give you all cause and opportunity to look beyond the hardware and make a more informed decision.

No IFALPA ban and you would all blunder blind into the very same environment and in all probability, just as hostile a working environment.

As I have stated previously, I believe the AOA cannot win this fracas. History tells us this and the HK backdrop guarantees it.

Many of my colleagues wear their hearts on their sleeve. The attempts of a few on this forum to educate should not be taken out of context. They are not trying to intimidate those trying to scale the parapets but more to let you know what is on the other side.

At the end of the day, we all make our own decisions. Make sure yours is an informed one.

Should you decide to come make sure you leave your opinions and personalities at home. And , donŽÕt forget the peg for the nose.

[TwinNDB]

Just a question and this is NOT a go at either 'side' in this argument as I am still reading and learing all i can about what is in place. I do not yet meet the requirements for any major's around the place but I would like to know how long this ban and its associated affects are going to continue to affect young guys coming through the industry. I mean in a year or two having done nearly half a decade in GA am I/we supposed to still hang around till something that happened years ago is sorted?

It seems sad that people will go to a company when there is a recruitment ban in place but by the same token they are probably sick of GA and the associated VERY low pay and conditions and other people are going to join and take the spots then why shouldnt they??

I guess I just want to know what is in place to help young guys who stick by the ban get a job when its over? When does this all end and is it going to be like another 89 in Aus?

Twin

[The Fan Man]

Thank you for the in-depth post VR-HFX

I am quite aware of the situation and from what friends on mine at CX tell me, good to read your views as well.

At the end of the day some of us will just have to “agree to disagree” some of you at CX feel very differently about the Ban and rightly so for your own reasons.

I guess I could sit here until I turn blue in the face trying to impart my views and those of many others.

At the end of the day there are two groups , Group one strongly in favour of the Ban and Group two ignores the ban due to the hipocracy of it all.

I stand by my word , I disagree with the ban whole heartedly.

Kaptin M…..maybe the M stands for “Militant” , I’ve been reading this forum for years and never felt or had the urge to post , UNTIL all this pathetic industrial attempt entered the world of aviation. So yes I am new to using an internet forum and I enjoy challenging the opinions of people like yourself.

I would like to know, For the poor people that do turn a job down with CX what the hell is being done in writing by the AOA to assure them of future employment with CX , what are the guarantee’s for loyalty from complete strangers?

Anyone? Anyone?

FAN MAN

[The Fan Man]

.....again no one is willing to answer my question

"Where" has it been guaranteed in writing by the AOA OR better still "WHEN" will it be guaranteed , that for those who show loyalty to the ban , they will be looked after and secured a job with CX when the dust settles??

Anyone? Anyone?

FrankG - Professionals do not take upgrades / jobs of fellow work mates! plain and simple. This is why you have NO argument!!

FAN MAN

[VR-HFX]

Fan Man

Your blades are obviously not turning.

Th AOA is currently supporting the bulk of the 49'ers. That in my view meets your criterion.

As to guaranteeing to secure jobs at CX for the rest of those of conscience, the AOA will do what it can however a recommendation from the AOA to current management might not amount to much me thinks.

The case has been put on the issue of upgrades. You may choose to disagree but let me put it to you that most if not all of those that have taken upgrades since late 2001 would accept downgrades should that be required to make room.

The reality is that there is currently a major shortage in the system especially on the 400 and a bunch of guys are currently being dragged off the bus onto the 400. As I mentioned previously there is also a substantial bunch of guys in their early 50's who will leave over the next few years. The upgrade issue is a red herring.

[Sharfted Groundhog]

I think this is a topic where there is obviously quite a bit of emotion surrounding the fact - and quite rightfully so. I couldn't imagine anything worse than the treatment your fellow staff were given, and in some cases continue to be given.

From another side of a coin though, try and remember back to what it was like for those of you who have the lifestyle associated with being in a large airline, back to what it was like when you worked for some piddly little tin-pot outfit crashing around in either a single or small multi engine PISTON-engined aircraft in the middle of the night, being paid absolute insulting pay - if any at all! You really can't blame young people for wanting to ignore the ban and come on board. Personally, I would hate to be in their shoes..... give up a damn good chance at getting ahead (even if using it as a stepping stone) or staying in an outfit that may end up killing you?:confused:

I may be talking through a hole in my head as I have not been privy to alot of the information that CX crews have - and I hope that it all gets sorted out sooner rather than later, as there are some really good pilots sitting on top of a really big manure heap that really need a job.....

[shortly]

I was going to stay out of this lunatic asylum of a debate as my delicate sensitivities are easily offended by the vitriolic, unreasonable, puerile and child-like responses to anything perceived as 'anti dis-union'. But cripey the ban a red herring!!! I have rarely read such an arrogant remark tossed in so casually. It unfortunately epitomises the position of those militant few within the dis-union. The ban is NOT working, all courses are filled as far as the eye can see with new persons from all continents taking the slots. Even that icon of union virtue, the US of A is yielding candiates capable of meeting the requirements of CX. When those 50 ish year olds leave, their places will be grabbed by members of the AOA acceptable to management acceptable to management, and their places will be easily filled by aircrew who will not join and be apathetic to the dis-union and their places will be easily filled by aircrew who will not join and be apathetic to the union. Don't you get it, are you blind? The management is fragmenting the pilot body yet again and you are willing pawns to the action. When are you going to wake up and smell the coffee? And dear old polite Frankg says 'the ban makes sense', he would.

[VR-HFX]

Shortly my dear chap

Seeming that you are so delicately sensitive, I would have expected you to be able to read.

Where in my post did I say that the ban was a red herring? What I said was that the issue of upgrades is a red herring. The two issues are quite different.

There seems to be a body of thought that those currently employed at CX are a bunch of hypocrites for continuing to take upgrades. What I was trying to point out is that accepting upgrades is the only way to preserve CX employment as a career for all. You talk of militancy and arrogance, I see measured restraint and as I said before all would gladly hand back the upgrade if it was required to settle the issue.

I do not wish to get into a debate on semantics as to whether the glass is half full or half empty but as far as I am concerned (and mine is just one opinion) the ban is not about stopping people seeking a job at CX but about allowing them to make an informed decision with all the facts to hand.

Life is too short for scab lists and and all the bile. It is unlikely that anyone joining in the current environment would forever be banned from anything. As history in the US has shown people mellow once things settle down.

I am sorry I lost the thread you were trying to weave in your last few sentences. Would you care to have another shot at translating what you are obviously trying so hard to express.

[shortly]

Fair cop HFX, I find it difficult to differentiate between those people who took upgrades - ergo replacing the 49ers- and those who take jobs lower down the food chain to replace the upgradees and fill new slots made available by expansion. My point is that management at CX have effectively split the pilot body since the inception of B grade salaries, then ASL etc. I know that all courses are filled with well qualified newbies until early next year, I know that all interviews - both initial and final are also full, I know that all command courses are being readily filled. Therefore the ban is impotent. The bigger problem is that the newbies are joining the company and not the union, and all upgrades to replace the old farts will be at the Company's discretion and obviously only those deemed to be 'company loyal' will get a guernsey. You would give up your slot and more credit to you for that because I doubt the chance would come around again for you. But all the 'company loyal' folk would not, so once again, in my opinion, it would a vain sacrifice. This 'measured restraint' in industrial action has been ongoing now for about ten years and where has it got us? 50 odd good folk unemployed, an effective 4 per cent pay cut for AOA members and the company bottom line is well in the black. The contract issue day came and went with the company placing conditions of service in the manuals. They are smart, they didn't reduce anything. We must go forward and emotional as it was, publicity stunts like yellow bus trips won't cut the mustard. Have a chat to members of the public or ground staff and get an idea of the depth of feeling against the AOA. I will not slag the AOA executive but I honestly feel their strategies will not work in Hong Kong - or most anywhere else these days. We need common sense and good judgement now, we need to get back to the table with management and they won't be bullied back. Would a new committee be more effective? Maybe not, but it would be an indication on the AOA's part that they want to talk not fight. I have said for a long time now that all industrial action must be stopped - it's not working anyway. Thank you for your reasonable response and good luck.

[VR-HFX]

Shortly

Thanks for the expanded critique.

As we have found, there is far more commonality in our view of the world than difference. The sad truth is, this also applies to the company as a whole.

I certainly agree that the B scale has proved divisive. The erosion to the A scale has also created mischief and misguided perceptions. It is time to put everything into one volume.

The ban is probably impotent but I see it more as a 'caveat emptor' than intimidatory tool.

What I was suggesting is that many if not all would revert back to their old slot on the seniority tree if it would help resolve that one niggling issue of due process. I say this because many are in essence doing so already via increased subs to the AOA.

Demographics and growth guarantee that RHS time will gradually reduce from its near all time high so there is going to be more than enough slots to go around.

I wish I knew the trigger that would get a sensible resolution. I agree with you on publicity stunts. They may be good for internal morale but often have a negative effect on public perception.

A leap of faith is required from both sides. The question is who goes first. On current form it will have to be the AOA.

Good luck to you too.

[shortly]

Bravo HFX, I will post with you anytime. Even have a beer or three two mate.

[Freehills]

AOA was clear in 2000 and 2001, Cathay management needed to be punished, to be shown that the AOA wasn’t toothless. A “militant” committee seemed to look forward to, and welcomed a showdown, blaming a lack of industrial muscle for the 93 and 99 contracts. Goal posts in negotiations shifted from rosters to remuneration & benefits. The AOA RP negotiation team withdrew their offer to CX in May 2001, on the basis that that AOA now had the upper hand, so should go for more than rostering.

The new demands were well thought out, something for everyone in the AOA, whatever scale or base, to ensure all onside. The LIA was well planned, well thought out, and well executed. A rational management would work out that the new contract would cost X, the LIA Y, and once Y> X, would cave in. That’s how it works in the States. Captain Demery said himself “it will end when someone high up in the organization will say “This is stupid and inefficient, its costing us money…”

So, a year or so ago the AOA turned down a “best and final offer” from CX management. Not only was it turned down, but full page newspaper adverts were in the papers ridiculing Swire management, questioning the right for a UK based firm to run a HK airline, thus ensuring that any residual goodwill London might feel for “their boys” evaporated. In a face based society, delivering a public insult to the top wasn’t the best idea. Especially when the LIA strategy depended on someone senior in the organisation stepping in…

One problem emerged. CX management wasn’t rational. X and Y would never be calculated. The CX negotiating team had reported back that the AOA wanted everything on the wish list, no compromise likely

AOA newsletters predicted victimisation, promised retaliation and full support, with no resolution to the dispute until all victims were reinstated, with back pay. Two out of three happened – the retaliation didn’t happen. CX essentially called out the AOA, and the AOA blinked, not shutting down the airline.

The committee was then somewhat lost. The coalition for LIA, built on something for everyone, wasn’t enough for anyone to risk losing their job over, especially after the company imposed a pay increase. The issues left were the 49’ers, and a more abstract one of how should the company be run. Again, neither of which would be enough for the majority to stick their neck out over, so a ban on upgrades wouldn’t stick. The only thing left was a ban on recruitment, retreat, and hope that the company would overreach itself, pushing enough pilots to the point of no return when LIA could be effective again.

Jumping at the chance, the company did the opposite. The slowdown in the economy after 911 allowed rosters (the main point of friction for a pilot on a day to day basis) to be relaxed, improving most guys quality of life. Recruitment was stepped up, to catch the AOA in a bear squeeze. New recruits can’t join the AOA, and as senior captains continue to retire, the AOA income base will decline (of course, some senior pilots had already calculated that even if the AOA won, the improved benefits would never offset the 4-5% levy to the AOA given the short time they have left, so aren’t paying anyway) If the AOA returns to LIA before the majority of the crew are willing to lay their jobs on the line, the risk is the ranks of the 49’ers will swell, putting more financial strain.

In summary, at some point the AOA decided to make the dispute about “how, and who runs an airline” rather than just R&RB. CX decided to try and turn the AOA back to a flying club, and training ground for future managers, because to question “how, and who runs an airline” is to question the whole legitimacy of the post ’97 compromise between Swire and CAAC.

So the standoff continues, with a group of 400 or so non AOA pilots, about 500 AOA members who just wish none of this had ever happened, 500 AOA members who are watching their bucket of sh*t fill up, and 300 AOA members who will do what it takes to get revenge.

My prediction? Non AOA numbers will increase, as new recruits come in and AOA fence sitters throw in the towel. The “bucket” guys will slowly leave, or (if the rosters stay loose) will become fence sitters. The 300 will hate the company they work for always and forever.

So, new joiners will face a core of hatred, but most will either just view them with disdain, or be sympathetic.

[ironbutt57]

the ban has been and is well publicized


yup it sure is....a well publicized cockup....thanks there Kaptin M for the compliment...I've been criticized by far better blokes than the likes of you....still bitter about "9-to-5in'89 lost our jobs now hear us whine"..:D :D :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Sharfted Groundhog]

Can someone refresh my memory because it's getting slightly clogged up with periphery information doo-doo's..... the ban is on new recruits that have had nothing to do with the company or it's recent history, but not on upgrading of existing pilots (ie those who are meant to be 'brothers' to those who lost their jobs)?

Either I'm confused, wrong or something is plain dumb here....

:( :o

[shortly]

You are correct Sharfted, it does seem more than a little hypocritical that AOA members filled the vacancies left by the martyrs of union stupidity then they villify newbies filling spaces made by expansion and aircraft return. I can hear the supporters of the ban now, it's working - rubbish, it's a legitimate union industrial action - maybe if the ban was not a claytons one , it has the support of IFALPA - of course it does, doesn't hurt any of them does it, it has the support of the majority of pilots - lmao and given HK's draconian industrial laws what else can we do? Simple answer give up all industrial action, change the Committee - at the least for cosmetic sake and return to negotiation. Wait for things to change politically here and then when you have a hope of success - if you are still bloody minded about the Company - start again. Yes I know about lists and things but at the end of the day hundreds of pilots not in any union local or international is grist for the mills of management everywhere. Smell the coffee guys please. You are unwilling players in a drama which will adversely affect industrial relations all over our industry for a long time. (Exclude the 49ers from my next please) You are not valiant soldiers battling the nemesis of freedom - management at CX- you are pawns in a much bigger game being keenly observed by the biggest and boldest captains of industries everywhere. I firmly believe we are setting the wrong standards here.

[yukan fucov]

All warfare is based on deception.
Therefore, when capable, feign incapacity; when active, inactivity.
When near, make it appear that you are far away; when far away that you are near.
Offer the enemy a bait to lure him; feign disorder and strike him!

Sun Tzu, 'The Art of War'

*** I wonder, of the Management or AOA, who is capable and who is posturing/faking it!


yukan fucov :p

[shortly]

Yukan, first I think your name is not funny but an indication of your muddled mind if you think it is.
'Selection and maintenance of the aim.' The first rule of war. I wonder whose aim is being maintained now? AOA losing members and barring others from joining, conditions of service neatly parcelled into company manuals, none of the 49ers re-instated, aircraft running on time, all courses filled until next year, waiting lists for those same courses, company running well in the black and of course the ban is still in place. 'Once you resort to conflict complications generally multiply...and nobody thinks of everything'. Mark McCormack. He's a business lawyer just to show how widely read I am lol.

[fire wall]

2 letters hustler.....b.s.

and you are full of it so just toddle off back to cprune with your malcontent comrades and post there.

Furthermore, the AOA GC is quoting 455 non members which now brings your union membership at approx 950 ....and falling with further resignations.

Lies are easily exposed.

Bye bye now...off you go.

[yukan fucov]

Shortly, a name is just a name....sticks and stones etc......more importantly, Ive been looking in here for a while and apart from the odd post after a few too many red wines (yes, I am criticising your grammar!) I am 110% with you.....please read my post again from 'our' point of view.

Hustler: Never let the facts get in the way of a good story? CX has never hired anyone with less than 1000 hrs fixed wing! (Some have had 1000'ish..... but all have significant [read several thousand] rotary hours)

As for you inane BE76 comments....what rubbish. After all many ex-military guys arrive at CX with about 5hrs multi from their MEIR. (Of course their 3000 Tornado hours mean ****** all too) And what of our resident F117 driver...... any words of advice for him, oh wise one? (Perhaps youd like him to 'get some multi-piston time up?)

US courses are FULL....I say again...F-U-L-L, with both FOs and SOs joining and that my little pornstar is a F-A-C-T.

Still you write a good fairytale.

yukan fucov :p

[JJflyer]

Now that was interesting reading.

So how long will this hiring ban be in effect ? Will this be one of these 30 year wars or would there be a dlight possibilitythat it might end before I retire in 2035?

[jumpingdoc]

If you think no one interviews in the US, think again. I did, and I have been keeping in touch with several others who did. :rolleyes:

[Cpt. Underpants]

Jeez, JJ. 22 years old, ATPL, 727, 737 and 747 ratings!

I smell porky pies...

[BlueEagle]

I make that 27 years old. 60 - 33 = 27, yes?

(and if JJflyer is hoping for a retirement age of 65 by then, 32 years of age).

[Cpt. Underpants]

CX retirement is 55, n'est pas?

[JJflyer]

Well OK.. I am 30 in October ( OLD very OLD). Retirement by what 65 and CX mandatory (55?)
That be what 35 years or 25. Depending on how you look at it:D

from above the arctic circle...

[southflyer]

The ban will be over when the new recruits outnumber the old farts...then it will turn into a reverse ban...:p
...kind of like that globe atlas I saw a few years ago; according to some Australian cartographer, the north is really the south, with North America and Europe on the bottom and the lands of plantains on top...:D

[BlunderBus]

It's been a while since i bothered to read what all the 'experts' not currently employed by CX have to say about this topic. You are what you write. I don't blame guys for wanting to get ahead..we've all been there. I've seen people offer to fly for nothing. My question is what do you expect after 20 plus years of hard work,re-location,family upheaval,and expense? Do you aspire to be a 45 year old Captain with 20 years service,2 kids and a mortgage....fired on a whim?Would you like to accept a position,get settled,do a great job and then have 8 years+ of constant sign or **** off drastic changes to the original offer? Anyone who thinks the airline is bleeding obviously doesn't work there. Who else in the world is even capable of nearly 1 BILLION USD net profit with 65 aircraft? This is purely an accounting exercise with loyalty and long service and going the extra mile counting for zero on the balance sheet. The guys involved in this fiasco have watched it unravel over at least a decade and have finally decided to protect their interests. If you believe the aviation world is just hopping from one contract to a lesser one then by all means join up. Give it a few years and you'll be in exactly the same pos. as the guys are now...vote with your feet? how many times do we have to keep running? The pilots have taken the 30% pay cuts,2 weeks less leave,we have only a 900 hour flying limit and 60 hour(continuous!) duty limit to work to. 3 weeks reserve a month...i think long haul people are entitled to a roster.....not turn up for a 3 hour turn around and be sent to los angeles..or pulled from a sim for a long haul. There are guys flying london-hongkong-frankfurt-hongkong-london in 5 days!!!!Most of the changes are in place. The fight is about a roster,and contract that means just that...a contract...two people sign and it remains inviolate until renegotiated...is that asking too much?

[MJMJKG]

In answer to the original question.
I believe a couple of ex Ansett SCAB captains were at CX city today doing interviews for S/O positions.... But I'm sure they will take note of the ban.... NOT

[FlexibleResponse]

Mister Geezer in starting this thread asked:
CX Recruitment Ban
My question is, just how many people are taking notice of the recruitment ban? Has anyone tunred their back and accepted an offer of employment.

I am just very curious as to what the real figure is.

On an RTHK (Radio Hong Kong) interview, Mr Tony Tyler, Director of CX Corporate Development, finally admitted that the Recruiting Ban was stopping good pilots from joining Cathay Pacific.

So we have the definitive answer and this thread can be now closed?

[shortly]

Pourqoui pas? Once again a selective interpretation of a quote must be the truth, lol. Just because some good pilots are not joining CX at the moment doesn't mean that we are not getting other good pilots to fill the slots. And once again the hard thing, it appears, for the AOA to comprehend is the good pilots not joining are the ones they should want to join. Can't it be understood that this pathetic immoral ban is hurting the AOA far worse than the company.

[FlexibleResponse]

What the "Captain" meant to say...

[Alpha Leader]

I believe that Mister Geezer's question was a quantitative one, whereas FlexibleResponse's quote is qualitative and thus neither definite nor even pertinent to the original point.

So we still do not know how many.....

[Wizofoz]

Flex,

Are you really trying to say that someones decision to join under the ban or not is a measure of their Skills as a pilot??? .

Whilst you might like to have an opinion of their morality (Though I for one would dissagree with you!) to suggest they are not a skilled driver because they don't conform to your politics doesn't so much border on the ridiculous as leap headlong into it!!

The guys turning Cathay down are good pilots. The ones joining are good pilots. The company is happy with either. Which would the HKAOA rather have joining?

[FlexibleResponse]

Just reporting the facts.

Interpretation and Corporate Spin is for you guys to weave.

[Wizofoz]

Just the "Selected" facts plus your own high-lighting and conclusions.... A bit of spin on your delivery too old boy!