Update on vacancies

[yellowplane]

Just wondering where the latest ATCO vacancies are? Anyone able to update?

[360BakTrak]

In no particular order;

Baghdad
Isle of Man
Glasgow (NATS)
Baghdad
Farnborough (NATS)
Dubai Approach
Dubai Tower (DXB)
Baghdad
Birmingham
Dubai World (DWC)
East Midlands (Unless recent positions filled?)

Did I mention Baghdad?

[yellowplane]

Any Tower/Approach Procedural not openly advertising?

[cossack]

Toronto Tower (CYYZ)
http://ca.indeed.com/cmp/NAV-CANADA/jobs/Experienced-Visual-Flight-Rule-Air-Traffic-Controller-248b778b4655b7e0?q=Nav+Canada

[Roadrunner Once]

Prestwick
Carlisle

[callum91]

Alderney
Norwich
Newquay

[Gonzo]

I notice that according to the Newquay job's person spec that a 'sense of humour' is desirable.

[360BakTrak]

Probably need that when they tell you the salary at the interview...........:E

[Dan Dare]

When I meet ATCOs from other units the one constant is that they're understaffed and unable to attract people to fill the empty seats. Absolutely everywhere - military, civil, centres, towers, home and abroad. I keep expecting it to blow, but somehow the creaky system keeps on scraping through.

[sunnySA]

I keep expecting it to blow, but somehow the creaky system keeps on scraping through.

Ain't that the truth

[middles]

Wycombe Air Park

[throw a dyce]

Gatwick and Edinburgh with ANS."Other" Airports with Nats as well as Glasgow and Farnborough....Someone mention Baghdad?

[T250]

Gatwick no longer looking

[yellowplane]

Thanks All - Toronto sounds good. Saw one on LinkedIn for an airport in Kent today

[broken headset]

Does anyone know if Nav Canada consider European applicants?

[trafficnotsighted]

There was big batch of UK ATCO's who went to NAVCANADA 10 -15 Years or so ago under their Experienced ATCO program they were running at the time. I don't think they considered it a success and have not repeated it since a lot came back I believe. There was also a handful of guys who went out on a separate thing and I know one of them them is still there at London Ontario airport.

[Tower Ranger]

There are UK Controllers on their way to Canada very shortly.

[360BakTrak]

At least 1 is already there......

[TCAS FAN]

360BackTrack

.....and at least one has returned disillusioned to the UK.

[360BakTrak]

How recently TCAS FAN?

[cossack]

Plenty still here though. I arrived in 2003. About half a dozen or so still in Toronto ACC.
The current recruitment is for Toronto Tower only. The Experienced Controller Program will not be resurrected.

[GASA]

I hear from everyone in air traffic I talk to (UK) that almost all units are short staffed, en route and tower. Where will all the replacements come from? Is the Nats college, or other atc colleges, churning out lots of trainees? Or is there some technology around the corner that will allow a big reduction in staffing levels? If not, then why aren't the airports more worried about this?

[GASA]

I hear that a lot. But what's the end game? There must come a point when all their airports and centres are shutting from time to time due to lack of staff.

[Squawk 7500]

Controllers are expensive. Why would you want any more than what's absolutely necessary? It's more financially beneficial to cover any shortfall with AAVAs and deal with the odd traffic regulation.

[T250]

Controllers are expensive. Why would you want any more than what's absolutely necessary? It's more financially beneficial to cover any shortfall with AAVAs and deal with the odd traffic regulation.

All ok till you alienate your workforce to not even want to do AAVAs any more! :ugh: and then the odd traffic regulation becomes shutting London approaches on an unprecedented basis. But hey, if that's what you guys call efficiency who are we to judge! :hmm:

[cossack]

Regulation for staffing? Now there's a novel idea. Same flow rate for 7 on shift or 10, just the runway configuration is different and the line ups are longer.

[Not Long Now]

Possibly Cossack, but NOT the same rate for one staff member instead of three...

[chevvron]

Controllers are expensive. Why would you want any more than what's absolutely necessary? It's more financially beneficial to cover any shortfall with AAVAs and deal with the odd traffic regulation.
At smaller units, controllers are already rostered to work up to the SRATCOH maximum so AAVAs simply aren't possible without exceeding SRATCOH hours.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Thinks - is Squawk 7500 management by any chance?

I never worked a single minute of overtime in my whole career and I would not on principle.

[obwan]

If 7500 is not already in a management position then he is well on the way. From the year dot I have not worked at a unit where there was not always a last minute scrabbling around for new staff when somebody in management woke up to the fact that Joe Bloggs was retiring at the end of the month or somebody had gone long term sick. Nobody seems to have worked out that even if you manage to hire an experienced controller it's going to be at LEAST 6 months before they are going to fill the position. I don't why I am surprised, the whole country is run by a complete bunch of amateurs

[chevvron]

If 7500 is not already in a management position then he is well on the way. From the year dot I have not worked at a unit where there was not always a last minute scrabbling around for new staff when somebody in management woke up to the fact that Joe Bloggs was retiring at the end of the month or somebody had gone long term sick. Nobody seems to have worked out that even if you manage to hire an experienced controller it's going to be at LEAST 6 months before they are going to fill the position. I don't why I am surprised, the whole country is run by a complete bunch of amateurs
Yeah look at Farnborough; I retired 8 years ago and they still haven't trained my replacement(s), still operating bandboxed and short of staff!
(You all thought I was joking when I said it would take 3 controllers to replace me didn't you)

[SINGAPURCANAC]

@chevron,
How than you explain that airport still works? ( not to correlate date where we will see that traffic increased in last 8 years since you retired)
And it will exactly explain how it works worldwide.
And what is more important traffic is more safe than 8 years ago ( otherwise there wouldn't have been increase)
Thing, that affraids me, is that even lost of lives is not enough to change. To quote friend of mine " System will not allow attacks on itself"

[throw a dyce]

I recently went to a local motor sport event and there was 5 other fellow NATS/Aberdeen retirees there including an ex GM.Never seen such a happy bunch.

NATS and the Unions over the last 20 plus years have stripped away at staff numbers,Pension changing to DC,Increased BS generally,and pay regrading in the downwards direction at the lower band units.Also plugging the shortfall with AVAAs which is a sticking plaster on a gunshot wound.
Good luck NATS in recruiting the next generation of skilled controllers that have propped up the fading empire.

[Squawk 7500]

I'm not management!! Just forgot to add some of these at the end of my last post :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[kcockayne]

@chevron,
How than you explain that airport still works? ( not to correlate date where we will see that traffic increased in last 8 years since you retired)
And it will exactly explain how it works worldwide.
And what is more important traffic is more safe than 8 years ago ( otherwise there wouldn't have been increase)
Thing, that affraids me, is that even lost of lives is not enough to change. To quote friend of mine " System will not allow attacks on itself"
The airport still works because the staff which are left pull their fingers out & make it work - because they are enthusiasts , extremely capable & hard working. But, none of this owes anything to the management, who really ought to get what they truly deserve !

[chevvron]

The airport still works because the staff which are left pull their fingers out & make it work - because they are enthusiasts , extremely capable & hard working. But, none of this owes anything to the management, who really ought to get what they truly deserve !
And don't forget they only have Class G airspace; the only 'protection' is a unique to the UK 'aerodrome traffic zone' of 2.5 nm radius up to 2000ft aal and all vectoring is done outside this.

[Gonzo]

7500,

It's ok, maybe it will take 5 people to replace you when you retire? :ok:

[Cleared For A Coffee]

You can add Jersey & Hawarden to that list...

[satdja]

Chevvron,

NPA 2016-09 'Requirements for Air Traffic Services' may force a change regarding Commercial Air Transport and vectoring in Class G...... The UK will need an altMoc........

[Norwegian Blue]

throw a dyce - I couldn't agree more. I'm just grateful I'm retired - and I never thought I would hear myself say that. Sad times for UK ATC.

[GASA]

Completely agree with the above comment. It's a brave new world ... until automation

[eagleflyer]

There won´t be automation in our lifetime. Too many unknown variables, no computer in this world can calculate with these, especially down low.

[LEGAL TENDER]

Great time for jobs mobility in the UK as the Nats monopoly is breaking up. No doubt there'll be more to come!

[kcockayne]

I joined ATC at LATCC in June 1971. At Christmas that year I was told by a person who owned some sort of computer company that I was facing an uncertain future as computers would make ATCOS redundant within a few years. I completed 37 years as an ATCO in 2008 & have been retired since then. In those 45 years ATCOS have been, & are still doing, basically the same jobs in the same ways. I know that there has been a gradual introduction of various computer aided tools & systems, but how long will it take before ATCOS really are redundant ? I don't think that I will ever see it !

[Gonzo]

Of course there will be automation. There already is.

We pass 90% of our airways clearances with no ATCO interaction at all.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where the intention is for the future. Whether it's deliverable in the desired timescale is another thing.

[kcockayne]

Yes, gonzo. I appreciate that sort of thing, pointsmerge , CPDLC etc. And I know that these innovations will continue; & gather pace. But, the point of my question is , how long will it take before the ATCO is no longer sitting in front of the RADAR taking the decisions ? Any idea ?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

KC... It must have been 45+ years ago when I was working GMP in the tower a bright chap came and sat next to me. "What are you up to?" I asked. "Replacing you with a computer chip" was the reply. I told him he would be better off working out how to run the EG list on a chip. Never heard nor saw him again...

[Gonzo]

Sorry kcockayne, wasn't aiming my post at you.

But when you see what effect iFACTS has had on controllers over the years, in that the vast majority of the time the proposed resolutions are followed (and I'm prepared to be corrected), the controller will have fewer decisions to make, and fewer interventions.

I can see a similar transition in the future on Ground and Air in terms of departure sequence, the optimum sequence is presented to the controllers, and the 'best' taxy route is suggested.

HD, there are issues with it of course, and some of them are of our own making, but our kit is pretty good at determining an optimum departure sequence and from that the start order.

Controllers won't go away by any means, but the job at the major airports will be very different in 10-15 years than it is now.

Anyway, I don't want to get into this again. :ugh::}:)

[GASA]

We might be saved a while by airlines and airports being cheap. I work at a fairly busy airport and CPDLC is probably only used half the time, lots of airlines don't want to pay for it. And our kit in the tower is hardly cutting edge...

I'll be worried when some higher ups come in and declare they're going to invest loads of money in the operation.

[Gonzo]

Yes, all the Gucci stuff is not cheap!

[ATCO Fred]

I can see a similar transition in the future on Ground and Air in terms of departure sequence, the optimum sequence is presented to the controllers, and the 'best' taxy route is suggested.
Unless you only have a single taxy route and no run up areas to integrate with GA.

Controllers won't go away by any means, but the job at the major airports will be very different in 10-15 years than it is now.


Hurrah for the minor airports - keeping their place as the best apprenticeship for controllers.

[ATCO Fred]

Yes, all the Gucci stuff is not cheap!

until it becomes cheaper than an ATCO. Units are run lean these days as SOP. . . the gap will become less as technology advances / becomes cheaper as it has already proven to do so.

[landedoutagain]

that sort of thing, pointsmerge , CPDLC etc.

Point merge, quite literally, is a complete waste of space.

[Standard Noise]

I seem to spend increasing amounts making Camelot more profitable. Seems to be a theme at my unit. Bring on the automation I say!

Happiest bloke I know stacks bread on the shelves in our local Tesco, always smiling, always whistling a wee tune. Sometimes I envy him.

[T250]

Pretty sure shelf stacking will be automated entirely before ATC :hmm::hmm::cool:

[obwan]

Happiest bloke I know stacks bread on the shelves in our local Tesco, always smiling, always whistling a wee tune. Sometimes I envy him.


Yep £7;50 an hour, happy as a sandboy and here's me at Swanwick 0n £110000 a year and totally p####d off, what a funny old world.

[Will_McKenzie]

Happiest bloke I know stacks bread on the shelves in our local Tesco, always smiling, always whistling a wee tune. Sometimes I envy him.


Yep £7;50 an hour, happy as a sandboy and here's me at Swanwick 0n £110000 a year and totally p####d off, what a funny old world.
When I was younger my parents told me that money doesn't buy happiness, I'm starting to see they might have been (begrudgingly) right!!

[obwan]

When I was younger my parents told me that money doesn't buy happiness, I'm starting to see they might have been (begrudgingly) right!!

Watched aprog. on the box some time ago which was about billionaires and the super wealthy and the question was asked, are the super rich really happy, to which the reply was , probably not, but they are a lot happier than the super poor. The End.

[Spamcan defender]

Yep £7;50 an hour, happy as a sandboy and here's me at Swanwick 0n £110000 a year and totally p####d off, what a funny old world

You're obviously doing the wrong sector or (which would explain your p'doff-ness) Approach :E.

I'm at SWN too and happy as a pig in s*** 95% of the time......

Yes, it's easy to whinge about some of the going's-on but in the grand scheme of things, it's not worth getting the blood pressure raised over. I worry about the things I CAN change and shrug shoulders about the stuff I can't.....


SD

[rodan]

Back on Planet Topic,

Liverpool

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

One thing for sure, there's not been this many opportunities in the UK industry for a long long time....

If you're in TWR/APC and you're really not happy, now is the time to move on. Plenty of jobs out there!

[throw a dyce]

Are NATS still doing ADI and APS courses.For some reason there is a big shortage and it's happened quite quickly.Seems more than the usual retirement,sickness,failure to validates shortages.

[broken headset]

I think NATS knew they were going to short years ago and decided It would be a lot easier to get TWR guys during a shortage than qualified En route staff. (Hence dropping the TWR requirement at the college for area guys, to push more through) The Irony is that some of the TWR/APS guys being hired are ones that NATS trained but chopped after failing the Area course years ago.

[GASA]

Plus they have to find places for the folk who want to stay with the company when they lose contracts. Maybe another reason for not recruiting as many twr and aps recently. And this will only get worse if they keep losing contracts.

[grizzled]

Baghdad...

It's interesting that this thread had an early reference to Baghdad (written supposedly in jest) but no real interest or curiosity expressed by UK ATCOs, whilst many are bemoaning life as an ATCO in the UK. I suppose it's likely because the word "Baghdad" suggests a nasty unsafe place to work but for those of us who've worked there it is / was entirely different than that (somewhat naive) view.

If you do your research you'd find that, from an ATCO's point of view, it's a very safe place to live and work (if you are an expat working for Serco and therefore living in the compound on the airport) and of course an excellent gig to put aside a LOT of money for a year or two (or even longer for some). For whatever reason there aren't many Brits or western Europeans working for Serco in Iraq -- but lots of Canadians, Americans, Icelanders, along with East Europeans, Ozzies, Kiwis, and some Latin Americans (GREAT mix for partying BTW...).

Certainly it's not for everybody but if you're an ATCO looking for change and challenge it's an idea that shouldn't be discounted just because of your initial reaction to the word "Baghdad".

Grizz

[T250]

and of course an excellent gig to put aside a LOT of money for a year or two

So why exactly is the money SO great? Must be due to the reasons, perceived/true/untrue or otherwise associated with Baghdad? :ouch:

Or are Serco there just particularly generous for absolutely no reason at all? :}

[grizzled]

T250

Of course it's because of all the reasons / attitudes / risks (perceived or real) regarding Baghdad. Neither I nor anyone else would suggest otherwise.

And Serco (as with most ANSPs) is definitely not particularly generous.

[RPMcMurphy]

I did a couple of years in Serco's unfortunately short lived Erbil contract a little way north of Baghdad and enjoyed it. I'd be keen to go to Baghdad but no vacancies in tower and I'm a bit short of radar experience. I've spent most of my career in tower and approach procedural environments.

[throw a dyce]

Looks like Dubai TWR and APP at DWC are still looking. Heard a rumour that Serco contract in Baghdad was looking a bit shaky.

[throw a dyce]

Guernsey now.

[Sam Asama]

Throw a dyce

The Serco contract(s) in Iraq have been shaky since the first day (January 1, 2011).

For many reasons (politics, culture, other bidders offering a bit more grease, staffing issues, etc) it has never been a certainty that Serco will get the contract each time it`s up for renewal. And at some point (3 years, 5 years, maybe 10 years down the line) the intent is for the Iraqis to be able to operate ATC on their own. I make no comment as to the feasibility or likelihood of that happening...

[throw a dyce]

Sam,
Yes I agree with you.Perhaps a more accurate way of what I heard was shakier,rather than the normal shaky.

[Tower Ranger]

Australian Tower jobs opening up again for their overseas exiles.

[RPMcMurphy]

Interesting; I wonder if they'll begin recruiting non-Australia/NZ residents anytime soon?

[Barnaby the Bear]

Southend are looking for an ADI/APS rated ATCO.
London Southend Airport - Home (http://www.southendairport.com)

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Hawarden recruiting again

[T250]

Biggin Hill :ok:

[rodan]

Newcastle now.

[261_p]

Newcastle job link
Recruitment - Newcastle Airport (http://www.newcastleairport.com/recruitment)

[Romeo_Fox]

Oxford

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401453886/air-traffic-control-officer-oxford/?TrackID=294316&BatchID=1839&cmpid=EMP%7CJOBS%7CFGJOB-Jobsbyemail#sc=jbe&me=email&cm=2017-01-27

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

The big boys want to play too!

NATS | EGAA EGPD EGPF EGGW (https://krb-sjobs.brassring.com/TGnewUI/Search/home/HomeWithPreLoad?PageType=JobDetails&noback=0&partnerid=30041&siteid=5720&jobid=1008854)

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Think it's fair to say the shortage is back...

[T250]

Everyone is waiting for big boy Heathrow to advertise, happening soon so the rumours say :oh::}

[broken headset]

Does anyone have a link to NATS pay scales and terms and conditions?

[ATCO Fred]

Think it's fair to say the shortage is back...


But the T&C's continue to decline . . . . perhaps.

[ATCO Fred]

Additional vacancy information
In addition to salary, NATS offers a range of excellent benefits which includes 28 days leave plus statutory leave and a top class contributory DC pension scheme.
When applying applicants should state in their covering letter which Airport locations they would like to be considered for.
Successful applicants will be placed on the agreed pay scales for the relevant airport.

What is 28 days leave plus statuary leave mean??? confusing thing to say. Do they mean 28 days plus PH = 36??

[45 before POL]

28days+ph is what they refer to. This increases after 8years to 30+ph after 10years 33+ph. Im not aware of any reductions to this either.

[rodan]

St Athan - only ADI required. Via Serco.

[TowerATC]

I saw an ad for locals only TOWER ATC in Aus...
Anyone with connections know if they are going to consider international applications?

[lord of the zones]

NATS now advertising for ATCOs at in Gib!

"From £35k" salary? Surely a typo?

Still, cheap Booze and Fags.....but you'd have to get through a fair bit to make up the £25k-£35k shortfall against a relatively standard radar ATCO pay scale

[Gingerbread Man]

I've enjoyed reading the opinions on this thread, but the original premise of it annoys me a bit. When I was looking for jobs a couple of years ago, I scoured every available resource that would be likely to advertise an ATCO job, pretty much daily. Then people would drop a lazy topic in here saying 'any jobs going?' and potentially create competition that would not otherwise have been there. And I was not an attractive proposition, so competition was not welcome.

If you're looking for a job, get off your arse and look for it yourself instead if waiting for someone else to put in the effort for you. Ta :ok:

[letMfly]

Fair point Ginge. In the good old days before personal computers and pprune had been thought of, there was only one way to find out about ATC and to apply for a job, and that was to get off your posterior and do a lot of research and general spade work yourself. This tended to attract only those with a genuine interest and indeed a latent passion for the job. In fact, the selection interview usually included questions on how you found out about ATC and how much you knew about operational procedures and the company in general. I remember when the CAA, shortly to become NATS, first advertised for ATCOs in the more upmarket broadsheets and made mention of the attractive salary which was eventually obtainable. This resulted in trainees coming through the system who had no previous interest in aviation and, my goodness, it really showed! I'm not saying that those trainees who completed the training were eventually less able than previous ones, but the OJTIing was definitely more challenging.

On topic, I hear that Doha are looking for ATCOs and offering a fairly generous package.

[rodan]

And I was not an attractive proposition, so competition was not welcome.

Competing priorities at work here. The existing staff at an airport may prefer that they end up training and working with the most 'attractive proposition' available, which means publicising a vacancy as widely as possible, or they may hope that nobody half-decent applies in order to force an improvement in their terms and conditions.

My own view is that ATC workers are best served overall by widespread knowledge of the state of the jobs market, so they know their options or know the best time to push for improvements to T&Cs. Periods of churn in the jobs market and airports poaching experienced staff from each other are the best time for this, and we seem to be in one of those just now.

[DEVV0]

Luton Airport would be perfect for me! do you think theyll accept me as an apprentice if im within the local area? will i still need to apply to nats careers website??

[The Many Tentacles]

Yes to the latter, depends what you mean by apprentice for the former

[davys747]

Does anybody know if NATS would consider applicants with ICAO licenses i.e. New Zealand or only those issued in the UK/EU?

[chevvron]

Does anybody know if NATS would consider applicants with ICAO licenses i.e. New Zealand or only those issued in the UK/EU?
They should do; why not ask?

[OA32]

Does anybody know if NATS would consider applicants with ICAO licenses i.e. New Zealand or only those issued in the UK/EU?


You can ask but I think it's unlikely they would consider anyone without a European license. I'm fairly sure they don't run a conversion course for those holding ICAO licenses rather than UK or European ones.

[The Many Tentacles]

The way things are staff wise at some of the airports they may be interested if you have those qualifications

Can't hurt to ask

[Glamdring]

ANS, as well as recruiting experienced ATCOs for Edinburgh, are now advertising for trainee ATCOs.

[T250]

Website says the closing date was 10th February actually...

[Glamdring]

Good spot :P

I would imagine it will open again, everywhere seems understaffed at the moment and the numbers going through the NATS college are a fraction of what they were.

[chevvron]

You can ask but I think it's unlikely they would consider anyone without a European license. I'm fairly sure they don't run a conversion course for those holding ICAO licenses rather than UK or European ones.
They would probably give you an APC or Assessment of Prior Competence ie a short course to determine your level of competence.

[AlanM]

They would probably give you an APC or Assessment of Prior Competence ie a short course to determine your level of competence.

I think you would need to identify the national differences between the issuing states competent authority and that of the state you wish to work in.

APCs are slightly different in this context.

A quick email to SARG will answer that..... 😎

[rodan]

Prestwick recruiting - Again? Or still looking?

[atc2017]

The GCAA Abu Dhabi are hiring.
Also Baghdad, once they have won the contract (Serco) and can convince the world's airlines to overfly Iraq again.
That's all I know of.
CAE Parc are still advertising for a ME (15) vacancies, but not sure where that is going to be.

As an aside, does anyone have good info on the GCAA salary and package?

[BarryTheBaptist]

Hi there,
I've noticed Serco are recruiting for TWR controllers at both DXB and DWC. Are there any folks on here working at DWC and could confirm what package is on offer and what the living situation is like so far from civilisation.
Thanks

[grizzled]

atc2017

First, welcome to pprune. It's always good to see a new name come onboard.

Having said that, you seem to have an erroneous impression of traffic levels through Iraqi airspace. For many reasons the Baghdad ACC has no lack of itinerant traffic; ironically some of that is due to uncertainties regarding safety levels in neighbouring FIRs (Syria of course, but also some of the other neighbours).

The days of concern for enroute safety levels in Iraqi airspace ended six or seven years ago (although that could change again, as we all know...). Of course there are some areas in Northern Iraq that are of concern at lower altitudes, and some (few) that have higher levels of risk even at higher altitudes, so they are avoided.

If you had the opportunity / ability to visit the ACC on a midnight shift (not an easy feat as you can imagine) you would likely be impressed (shocked even) by the amount of transiting traffic.

Re GCAA in Dubai, there is a separate thread on this forum that sometimes catches the eye of a controller or two from The Sandpit. As with many ppruners who are actually on the front lines, they don't usually like to share info publicly on sites like this. But... if you pose your question on that thread and kindly ask someone with info to send you a PM, you might get a response.

PS: I assume you are aware of a DXB controller who is a former controller at your current pprune address. Perhaps that person could help you out...

Cheers

[T250]

Liverpool....again? always seems to be vacancies there :cool:

[Captain Charisma]

Grizzled - You're a bit out of date with the Iraq overflight situation. It all changed after MH downing and public pressure. But yes, it was very impressive prior to that event. :ok:
GCAA is the UAE ACC centre. DANS is the Dubai setup.


ATCO2017 - If you are who I think you are, welcome back to ATC.

[RPMcMurphy]

There's an AFISO position available at Leeds East Airport. The airport is in the process of upgrading from an AGS to AFISO service. Applicants must have either an AFISO course pass or be a current or ex ADV/ADI rated U.K. or EASA licensed civilian ATCO. If an ex ATCO, you must have exercised the rating privileges within the last two years. If you meet the criteria and want further details, drop me a PM. Thanks!

[rodan]

Liverpool
Coventry
East Mids

[ATCO Fred]

Fear not guys; the cost and manpower savings created by remoting Tower Operations into centralised Hubs will means less ATCOs needed . . . . . :E:E

[ailzo]

Heya,

Does anybody know what ANS are offering as a salary package for Gatwick/Edinburgh?

[chevvron]

Heya,

Does anybody know what ANS are offering as a salary package for Gatwick/Edinburgh?

Why ask here; you should be asking ANS.

[rodan]

Two at Leeds Bradford now.

They want 1 x ADI-only and 1 x ADI/APS, both experienced.

[Rwy1234]

Two at Leeds Bradford now.

They want 1 x ADI-only and 1 x ADI/APS, both experienced.

Does anybody know if this is because at least one from Leeds has been offered a position outside the UK? It may be both but it may be neither.

[good egg]

Does anybody know if this is because at least one from Leeds has been offered a position outside the UK? It may be both but it may be neither.

I imagine it's because they are short staffed, regardless of the reason...

[ZOOKER]

Bravo, good egg.

It's The U.K. National ATCO shortage.........

And some of saw it coming 20+ years ago.

[Satellite Man]

Bravo, good egg.

It's The U.K. National ATCO shortage.........

And some of saw it coming 20+ years ago.

It's like that everywhere. Just politics.. nothing to do with (good) management.

[rodan]

Gloucestershire

[chevvron]

It's like that everywhere. Just politics.. nothing to do with (good) management.
Back in the days of ATCO Cadet Courses, NATS would start 3 intakes per year, then found (mid 70s) that they were training too many so 'held' some intakes. What happens 5 years later? The 'glut'of older controllers, mostly ex wartime aircrew, suddenly began retiring at the same time and hey presto there was a shortage.

[118.70]

The CAA Oberon report
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20170516_Oberon_Report_non_confidential_Redacted.pdf

thinks that it was reasonable that NATS could not predict that events would materialise and combine



http://www.pprune.org/C:\Users\Gillian\My_Pictures\NERL

[1985]

Yes they could not have forseen that pleading poverty over pay rises while making record profits and paying very large dividends would result in bad industrial relations and lead to a low overtime take up rate...

[chevvron]

The CAA Oberon report
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20170516_Oberon_Report_non_confidential_Redacted.pdf

thinks that it was reasonable that NATS could not predict that events would materialise and combine



http://www.pprune.org/C:\Users\Gillian\My_Pictures\NERL

I hope they've taken steps to restock their whitewash supplies.

[chevvron]

Wycombe Air Park - ADV/ADI 2 x vacancies SATCO and ATCO start date asap.
Validated ratings ideally required for SATCO and 'must have' for ATCO.
ATCO must ideally have Met Obs and OJTI too; SATCO must ideally have OJTI and Met Obs too.

Another airport pending needs APP ratings too.

e-mail [email protected] for further details

[rodan]

Humberside
Isle of Man
Yeovil
Hawarden

[chevvron]

Humberside
Isle of Man
Yeovil
Hawarden

Haven't seen an advert for Yeovil; thought it had gone AFIS.
Wasn't Hawarden a SERCO unit or did that change?
I'm sure NATS would like to get the contracts for Humberside and IOM; wonder if they're trying?

[rodan]

Haven't seen an advert for Yeovil; thought it had gone AFIS.
Wasn't Hawarden a SERCO unit or did that change?

Hawarden was Serco, no idea now. As for Yeovil, don't know either but they were advertising, just posting what vacancies I find. And on that note...

Southampton

[trafficnotsighted]

Yeovil looking for a ATCO with ADI + APP with Ex- Mil experience They do have a AFISO though.

[man friday]

Gibraltar looking for an ADI, APS rated ATCO very soon.

[chevvron]

Gibraltar looking for an ADI, APS rated ATCO very soon.

Don't tempt me, I'm supposed to be retired.

[Rwy1234]

Don't tempt me, I'm supposed to be retired.

Does the position with SafeSkys not take your fancy?

[chevvron]

Does the position with SafeSkys not take your fancy?

Operating 3 parallel runways plus helicopters at my age?

[off watch]

CFAC - did you perhaps call someone Dicky instead of Richard ? ;-) ;-)

[Fly Through]

Vacancy at Prestwick:

http://www.glasgowprestwick.com/vacancies/air-traffic-control-officer-atco/

Terms & Conditions under review.

[LapSap]

https://krb-sjobs.brassring.com/TGnewUI/Search/home/HomeWithPreLoad?PageType=JobDetails&partnerid=30041&siteid=5720&Areq=1695BR&codes=Facebook#jobDetails=1107934_5720

[10 DME ARC]

LapSap - I guess that's for the rumoured upcoming Hong Kong contract??!! Nice to have a few more details and narrow things down a bit!!

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

Liverpool...

Vacancies | Air Traffic Control Officer (https://www.liverpoolairport.com/careers/vacancies/air-traffic-control-officer/)

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

ANS have recently opened applications for their January 2018 intake of Ab-initios for Edinburgh. They are also advertising for qualified staff but I think that has been ongoing for a while.

[broken headset]

Can anyone PM me regarding recruitment at EGPH and the transition from NATS to ANS?

[zygote]

I need some help.

I've heard some good and bad things about Safeskys. Was considering enquiring about the job at WAP but a bit worried that it's too busy and that I will struggle.

Any advice?

[zygote]

Thanks Chevvron. What were you experiences of the Mgt

[horatio_b]

Vacancy at Blackpool - see their website

[zygote]

But aren't you in charge Chevvron??????

[chevvron]

Can anyone PM me regarding recruitment at EGPH and the transition from NATS to ANS?

The way I understand the system to work nowadays is:
If you're under contract to NATS and decide to stay at Edinburgh, ANS have to offer you terms and conditions at least equivalent to those provided by NATS. You can ask NATS for a transfer if you do not wish to stay with the new ANSP.
Years ago, I heard tales of SERCO taking over ANSP contracts, firing all the staff on a friday and re-hiring about 50% of them the following monday. How true that is I don't know but it's apparently not allowed nowadays.

[broken headset]

Are the new recruits on the same pay scales and terms and conditions as the retained NATS staff?

[Gonzo]

You can ask NATS for a transfer if you do not wish to stay with the new ANSP.

Only if you’re on the ‘Trust of a Promise’, ie you were a NATS employee when PPP occurred, and have been ever since.

[zygote]

Rumour has it that there numerous numbers of ATCO departures following Safeskys taking over at WAP. Another one gone today.

I really do hope the recent incident is lot linked.

[LXGB]

Cambridge are hiring:

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401472895/air-traffic-controller-cambridge-airport/

[Red Four]

As are London Southend:
Careers (http://southendairport.com/about/careers)

[italiancars]

Birmingham Airport.

https://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/careers/latest-vacancies/airport-vacancies/

[Satellite Man]

Serco - ATCO - Dubai Approach

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/528141323/

[rodan]

Inverness
Kirkwall
Wick

[Rwy1234]

The shortage of ATCOs is so bad that Wycombe Air Park (Booker)are offering £50,000 p.a. for a temp short term ATCO. Day shifts only.

All you need is a validated ADC rating, an OJTI and be availableto start validation training immediately or in Jan 18 for a contracted periodof 4 months minimum.


Lady ATCO


Rumour has it one ATCO from Wycombe (a lady as it happens) has applied elsewhere strangely where the salary is significantly less than 50k.

[Bright-Ling]

Why do you need an OJT Endorsement for a short term contract?

Day 1 - Pre-OJT/Transitional Training?
Day 2 - Training Day
Day 3 - Validation
Day 4 - Training new staff?

[Bright-Ling]

Wow. My flippant post is strangely accurate!

V-L how is the acquisition of Safeskys changing your day to day operation?

[Satellite Man]

The shortage of ATCOs is so bad that Wycombe Air Park (Booker)are offering £50,000 p.a. for a temp short term ATCO. Day shifts only.

All you need is a validated ADC rating, an OJTI and be availableto start validation training immediately or in Jan 18 for a contracted periodof 4 months minimum.


Lady ATCO


However, salaries in Europe are very far from those paid in the Middle East. I am wondering why there arent more ATCO strikes across Europe. There are several pilot strikes already scheduled for this Christmas.

[NutLoose]

https://www.caacareers.com/jobs/communities-consultation-and-coordination-regulator

[rodan]

Southampton

[Rwy1234]

Not sure.

The ‘lady’ I know of has been at Wycombe many years.

I wonder if she is one of the ones who've 'used' Safeskys when they have had a better job offer with conditions. One joined and got Safeskys to pay for an APC, then p1ssed off elsewhere when they'd passed it, obviously had the other job lined up already when they went to Wycombe.

[off watch]

Judging by the Prestwick Notams, if you've got Aerodrome & Approach Radar ratings, you could start tomorrow .....

[Buster the Bear]

I wonder if she is one of the ones who've 'used' Safeskys when they have had a better job offer with conditions. One joined and got Safeskys to pay for an APC, then p1ssed off elsewhere when they'd passed it, obviously had the other job lined up already when they went to Wycombe.

I assume that no bonding was added to the contract?

[Gonzo]

I assume that no bonding was added to the contract?

Or perhaps she’s a Prospect member and heard what had happened elsewhere?

[360BakTrak]

Judging by the Prestwick Notams, if you've got Aerodrome & Approach Radar ratings, you could start tomorrow .....

Are they advertising? I can't see an advert on their own website or flight global.......are they really that desperate?

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Are they advertising? I can't see an advert on their own website or flight global.......are they really that desperate?

Most units seem desperate... especially those not paying what the market demands... (no idea what PK pay so generally speaking)

[zygote]

I wonder if she is one of the ones who've 'used' Safeskys when they have had a better job offer with conditions. One joined and got Safeskys to pay for an APC, then p1ssed off elsewhere when they'd passed it, obviously had the other job lined up already when they went to Wycombe.

No 'she's' from WAP have used 'safeskys when they have had a better job offer with conditions'.

Maybe it's a 'he'.

[off watch]

In the current climate regarding vacancies, I suspect PIK are just being pragmatic. After all, if you wanted to work there, wouldn't you just contact their HR department & ask ? No point in spending money on adverts when, as Cleared for a Coffee says, everyone is desperate to recruit. In any case, given the uncertainty of the airport's future at present, would you give up your present job to go there without a particular reason ?

[Rwy1234]

Nope, the one I know of is definitely a she. If you think it’s a ‘he’ then maybe there are two different candidates!

I wonder if she is one of the ones who've 'used' Safeskys when they have had a better job offer with conditions. One joined and got Safeskys to pay for an APC, then p1ssed off elsewhere when they'd passed it, obviously had the other job lined up already when they went to Wycombe.

No 'she's' from WAP have used 'safeskys when they have had a better job offer with conditions'.

Maybe it's a 'he'.

[alfaman]

I assume that no bonding was added to the contract?
Bonding is a red herring anyway; paying off someones bond is cheaper than training your own ATCO.

[Svx]

Anyone know where ATCO jobs at Birmingham pop up these days, best to contact the airport directly?

[good egg]

Prestwick (again)

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

Anyone know where ATCO jobs at Birmingham pop up these days, best to contact the airport directly?

They advertised at the beginning of December for ATCOs. They usually advertise on the airport’s own website given they are the ANSP.

Probably always worth getting in touch with any unit though; given most have advertised in the last year and the shortage doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

[ZOOKER]

Prestwick good egg?

Centre or airport?

I quite fancy that.

Also, I heard a rumour today that 6 EGGP ATCOS are shortly moving east to EGCC?

[cossack]

Also, I heard a rumour today that 6 EGGP ATCOS are shortly moving east to EGCC?
What, not enough Nats controllers available? Sounds like something that happened over 20 years ago that was fought by the union.:=

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

What, not enough Nats controllers available? Sounds like something that happened over 20 years ago that was fought by the union.:=

This being the same NATS that is so short of training capacity it is sending a course of TATCs to complete a basic course in Spain?

And if a post elsewhere on this forum is to be believed, the TATCs are required to pay a weekly supplement towards the costs in Spain. THAT sounds like something union would have fought 20 years ago, and you would hope they'd be all over right now..... :=

[good egg]

Prestwick good egg?

Centre or airport?

I quite fancy that.

Also, I heard a rumour today that 6 EGGP ATCOS are shortly moving east to EGCC?

The airport

[cossack]

Still keeping that powder dry, eh?

[chevvron]

Prestwick good egg?

Centre or airport?

I quite fancy that.

Also, I heard a rumour today that 6 EGGP ATCOS are shortly moving east to EGCC?
Prestwick Airport hasn't been NATS for many years now.
Didn't know they even had 6 at Liverpool.

[jumpseater]

Didn't know they even had 6 at Liverpool.

:hmm: You should get out a bit more, they've got around 30 at LPL

[obwan]

I,m guessing chevvron has never ventured north of Watford. Like most of them dahn sarf thinks there's no aviation goes on oop north.

[chevvron]

If you wanna be like that, I landed at Unst (furthest north airport in the UK) in a Loganair Islander during a 4 week detachment to Sumburgh during which I also visted Foula(most isolated airfield in the UK).
I've also been to the Stadium of Light; do you know in Washington on the A1, you're almost in the Arctic yet there are still signs saying 'To the North'.

[chevvron]

I'm surprised EGGP doesn't have it's own thread! 6 in one go is a heck of a lot to lose at once.

On an ATCO Cadet course just before mine (21 Course I think) all who graduated were posted to LATCC West Drayton. 6 resigned on the spot.

[ZOOKER]

I know 2 of them from EGNX, chevvron. I know 'PK hasn't been NATS for a while, can you remember when it changed? We were talking about it recently up here. It was one of the aerodromes I put on my posting preference form. I hope it has a future, along with Blackpool.

[Eric T Cartman]

PIK took over ATC services from NATS on 1 April 1993 (I started there on 12th July 1993 - there was a nice band wearing orange sashes & bowler hats out in the street to greet me - well, I assume that's what they were there for ! ... ;-) ;-)

[obwan]

It,s known as the Stadium Of Despair now

[chevvron]

It,s known as the Stadium Of Despair now
As we were visiting team supporters (Fulham), we were given a police escort from the service area in Washington all the way to the stadium; motor bike outriders who went on ahead stopping other traffic at roundabouts and traffic lights and waving us through like we were Royalty!
Chatting to one of the 'bikers' before we left, he told us it was the only time they got overtime paid so they liked to 'push the boat out'.

[obwan]

Perfect example of northern hospitality and good fellowship

[chevvron]

Perfect example of northern hospitality and good fellowship

Sunderland supporters were very friendly too; we chatted to one or two whilst in the queue for roast pork baps.

[mikk_13]

They will take applications for 2 weeks only.

https://www.iaa.ie/careers/current-vacancies/adi-acs-rated-air-traffic-controllers

Starting date is 2 weeks after they receive your cv.

Can't imagine many going if the germans are also taking ready entries

[Svx]

They advertised at the beginning of December for ATCOs. They usually advertise on the airport’s own website given they are the ANSP.

Probably always worth getting in touch with any unit though; given most have advertised in the last year and the shortage doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

Ah thank you, yes I see it now from a previous page in the thread. Looks like I've just missed the boat annoyingly, the airport seem rather reluctant to respond directly about vacancies of that nature.

[247]

What, not enough Nats controllers available? Sounds like something that happened over 20 years ago that was fought by the union.:=

Unfortunately nowadays we couldn’t fight our way out of a wet paper bag :ugh:

[Glamdring]

I've heard that Dublin are looking for experienced controllers. Anybody got more info?

[chevvron]

Also, I heard a rumour today that 6 EGGP ATCOS are shortly moving east to EGCC?

Unlikely as it's tower/GMC only nowadays since Man. Sub Centre moved away.

[Crazy Voyager]

Not sure which unit you were referring to but Liverpool is Aerodrome and approach, with both Liverpool and Doncaster approach on site.

Manchester is aerodrome and approach radar, with Manchester radar on site. The area sectors moved out but Manchester radar is still done locally.

[chevvron]

Not sure which unit you were referring to but Liverpool is Aerodrome and approach, with both Liverpool and Doncaster approach on site.

Manchester is aerodrome and approach radar, with Manchester radar on site. The area sectors moved out but Manchester radar is still done locally.

Sorry I assumed Man Approach had gone to Scotland.

[Nimmer]

The starting sentence of many an incident "I assumed"!!!

[ZOOKER]

chevvron, as Crazy says, Manch' approach is still at EGCC as far as I'm aware. Unless of course there are new plans afoot to re-locate it to Ayrshire?

[obwan]

Mr Zooker wash your mouth out

[m99]

I've heard that Dublin are looking for experienced controllers. Anybody got more info?

https://flyinginireland.com/2018/01/iaa-recruiting-experienced-air-traffic-controllers/

[ZOOKER]

obwan,

When the construction of nPC was underway, someone in the ATC Ops section at EGCC, (allegedly a superb guy who is sadly no longer with us), managed to get hold of the proposed floor-plan/sector lay-out of the new EGPX ops-room.
Said individual, altered the document slightly, adding consoles for EGCC's Approach North, Approach South and Final Director positions into the 'West 2 LAG', the part of the room where MACC would re-locate to.
Several copies of this document were left in the crew-room and placed on notice-boards........Much to the horror of some of the TWR/APC ATCOs! :E

On a different note, I went to a presentation by a senior member of MAG Ops recently, (the folks who own 'CC, 'SS and 'NX), and he told the audience that the group are very interested in remote/digital tower technology.

[chevvron]

Mr Zooker wash your mouth out.

[kcockayne]

6 (presumably) valid is a tad different to 6 ab initios leaving.

They weren’t valid. They’d only just finished their Cadet course & quit before even starting at LATCC. We were very much looking forward to them starting - & swelling the ranks of the ATCO4s.

[good egg]

They weren’t valid. They’d only just finished their Cadet course & quit before even starting at LATCC. We were very much looking forward to them starting - & swelling the ranks of the ATCO4s.

I think that was the point if the Liverpool rumour is true...

[kcockayne]

Thanks for clarifying that. I didn’t quite read it that way.

[chevvron]

They weren’t valid. They’d only just finished their Cadet course & quit before even starting at LATCC. We were very much looking forward to them starting - & swelling the ranks of the ATCO4s.

They would all have had validations from somewhere in their final year otherwise they wouldn't have graduated, but I'm not sure where. Our course manager, Mike Hunt (try saying that quickly) told us about it before we graduated but funnily enough some of my course already knew.
We were on the BEA Course (How to fly a Trident in 2 weeks) at Viking House, Southall and some of the guys had gone to the local pub where they'd met 2 of the ex 21 Course guys who were attending IAL's HQ which was nearby. I didn't; there were some stewardesses in the Viking House bar that evening so some of us stayed there!

[kcockayne]

These individuals obtained a certain notoriety by rejecting the offer of working at LATCC. Certainly, they caused consternation amongst the ATCO 4s who, because of their absence, had to work pretty much every night duty (as I remember) because there were so few of them ! Later on, it was my pleasure to work with one of them for 27 years (non NATS).

[ZOOKER]

I think I worked with 2 of them......Also Non NATS

[obwan]

Without wishing to appear too picky the cadets at the time obtained what was called a unit endorsement which was a validation in all but name. It allowed the trainee to work under distant supervision of an instructor which meant he/she didn't have to be plugged in. The course instructor who you refer to was Mr F.R Hunt and being a young innocent lad from the country never understood why he was called Mike, who I may add. was a very pleasant fellow. I also did the"fly a trident in 2 weeks " course and in light of the catastrophe which happened at Staines in 1972 remember how easy it was to retract the droop lever instead of the flaps.

[obwan]

P.S. for knockayne do you mean that the ATCOs in question didn't qualify for sector eights and had to work rostered hours; and being completely hypocritical, copped for quite a few sector eights myself

[chevvron]

Without wishing to appear too picky the cadets at the time obtained what was called a unit endorsement which was a validation in all but name. It allowed the trainee to work under distant supervision of an instructor which meant he/she didn't have to be plugged in. The course instructor who you refer to was Mr F.R Hunt and being a young innocent lad from the country never understood why he was called Mike, who I may add. was a very pleasant fellow. I also did the"fly a trident in 2 weeks " course and in light of the catastrophe which happened at Staines in 1972 remember how easy it was to retract the droop lever instead of the flaps.

Mike Hunt was course manager for odd numbered courses not an instructor.
In fact I remember now he was replaced by Chas Davies just before our graduation (Sep '74). Wasn't much for him to do as we'd already got our final postings.
As for 'distant supervision', I achieved UE at Glasgow (Twr/GMC) where my 'long lead' mentor was usually the supervisor in approach downstairs and at Lindholme where he normally stayed in the rest room (or somewhere else where he could light up). I came in one sunday morning and the Unit Training Officer was plugged in having done the night duty. He handed over to me and left, making no attempt to stay and supervise until someone else arrived! On the 'third' console we did at Lindholme (NJRSA latterly called 'Pennine Radar' operating on what is now Class G airspace upt to FL245) my mentor did the first session with me soon after I arrived and thereafter stayed in the rest room every time it was our 'turn' to do it.

[kcockayne]

P.S. for knockayne do you mean that the ATCOs in question didn't qualify for sector eights and had to work rostered hours; and being completely hypocritical, copped for quite a few sector eights myself

Yes. Because there were so few ATCO 4s (certainly on B Watch), there were no Sector 8s (or very few of them). I was an ATCA 2 at the time & felt very sorry for them, working a night duty every 4 day cycle; whilst the rest of us enjoyed Sector 8s regularly ! But, as you say, they were only working their rostered hours. I remember the great anticipation that the ATCO 4s had for the , anticipated, arrival of a whole Cadet Course of new 4s - only for their hopes to be dashed when they resigned !

[Brian 48nav]

About 10 years ago, we were having a coffee at our regular place in Fleurance ( France ) when some acquaintances joined us - they had a friend in tow and it turned out he was also an ex-ATCO. He said he'd been on 21, 'Ah the famous resigning course' said I. 'Yes, I was one of the 6', he replied. He'd got a job at Lulsgate and IIRC stayed there forever. I can't recall his name.

I started my Direct Entry/Class to Class course on 5th November 1973 and it was the time of 21's graduation.

An ex-21er, Ray Draper, was my replacement in Stornoway in Dec' 1982, and last year I bumped into Tony Merton-Jones in Waitrose in Abergavenny - we'd been on LATCC C Watch together before I went on my travels.

H&I was the LATCC 'escape tunnel' and I think 2 more ex21ers, Geoff Greavey and John Brough were in H&I at the same time as me.

[good egg]

This update on vacancies seems to be drifting....

[Brian 48nav]

It's called a conversation!( Cyber in this case! ) - a la Ronnie Corbett!

Stop fretting, I'm sure someone will bring it back.

[off watch]

I wonder how many ATCO's that were chopped by NATS from area & got punted, have rejoined them with Aerodrome/Approach Radar tickets ?

[chevvron]

P.S. for knockayne do you mean that the ATCOs in question didn't qualify for sector eights and had to work rostered hours; and being completely hypocritical, copped for quite a few sector eights myself

Ohdearowsadnevermind.
Us lowly ATCA 3s on 'D' Watch at LATCC in '69/70 NEVER got a night off.
It wasn't until I transferred to LATCC Radar unit at Heathrow as an (Acting) ATCA 2 that I didn't work a rostered night duty.
(Course I suppose it cocked up some people's second jobs; several of the people on 'D' Watch used to do part time at Securicor which wasn't far from Porters Way)

[good egg]

Hawarden...

[good egg]

Bournemouth...

[chevvron]

I wonder how many ATCO's that were chopped by NATS from area & got punted, have rejoined them with Aerodrome/Approach Radar tickets ?

We had quite a few through Farnborough prior to 2008 who had failed Area Radar training and came to us with Aerodrome only. Soon as they had validated and consolidated they were sent on the first available Approach Radar course.

[ZOOKER]

Bournemouth sounds nice, good egg........Enjoyed my time there immensely.

Unless, of course, you need help developing the 'digital option'? :E

Scotland's nice too.

[Liobian]

B48 - Ray's still out here, monitoring 21 Course ! I moved to Stornoway from Tiree, having replaced J Brough there. JB went to and retired from Aberdeen. My move occurred when the ATCO/Mgr was replaced by AFISO firefighters.
Geoff G was at Kirkwall during our H&I sojourns, and also retired from Aberdeen - now living happily in Cyprus.
After Stornoway, which I regard as my formative years,I ended up at ScACC and took early out around 9 years ago.

[5'n'3]

ADI only vacancy available at East Mids, Possibly looking for ADI&APS as well ?

here's the link..

https://career5.successfactors.eu/career?career%5fns=job%5flisting&company=C0008527882P&navBarLevel=JOB%5fSEARCH&rcm%5fsite%5flocale=en%5fGB&career_job_req_id=23942&selected_lang=en_GB&jobAlertController_jobAlertId=&jobAlertController_jobAlertName=&_s.crb=xIkhHlemh27SurCQ20RJ2llDPDo%3d

[spekesoftly]

From the EMA advert:-

East Midlands Airport handles over 4.6 million passengers per year and is the UK’s number one pure freight airport.I don't understand how EMA can descibe itself as a "pure freight airport" when it also handles over 4.6 million passengers per year. :confused:

Pax = SLF (Self Loading Freight) ?? ;)

[Doody2007]

Pure freight means freight carried by a cargo only aircraft. Hence why EMA is number one for pure freight even though LHR carries more tonnage per year. The difference is the LHR freight is belly cargo on pax flights whilst EMA's freight is on a pure cargo aircraft.

[spekesoftly]

OK thanks :ok:

[hangten]

I don't understand how EMA can descibe itself as a "pure freight airport" when it also handles over 4.6 million passengers per year.

I agree that this is not a very clear statement but as mentioned what they mean is that EGNX is the biggest airport in the country for aircraft that are purely carrying freight.

In fact Heathrow is also the biggest port in the country by value of goods, bigger even than any of the shipping ports despite the obvious difference in tonnage.

Jan 18 cargo statistics for UK airports can be found here:

https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_Data_2018_01/Table_15_Freight_by_Aircraft_Configuration.pdf

And if you're a nerd like me and just like statistics the CAA publishes lots every month, here:

https://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-airport-data/

Perfect for a snowy day read. :8

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

ADI only vacancy available at East Mids, Possibly looking for ADI&APS as well ?

Why ADI only I wonder?

[alfaman]

^why ADI only?^ - might be they feel they're restricting themselves too much & they're prepared to train APS when the time comes?

[chevvron]

I understand from another forum that Shoreham have had 5 controllers leave recently and are desperately short to the extent they will have to close for several days in March and will be unable to offer iaps until June.

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Southend

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401483182/air-traffic-control-officer-london-southend-airport/

[Roadrunner Once]

Out of interest, can anyone say at which non-NATS units Prospect do the negotiating for T&Cs?

[LXGB]

Prospect ATCOs’ Branch currently support members at:

Aberdeen Aberporth Alderney Battersea Belfast Belfast City Biggin Hill Birmingham Blackpool Bournemouth Bristol Cambridge Cardiff Carlisle Coventry Doncaster Durham East Midlands Edinburgh Exeter Farnborough Gatwick Gibraltar Glasgow Gloucester Guernsey Heathrow Humberside Inverness Isle of Man Jersey Leeds Liverpool London Area Control Centre London Terminal Control Centre London City Luton Lydd Manchester NATS Corporate and Technical Centre NATS Training Newcastle Newquay Norwich Oxford Prestwick Centre Scilly Isles Shoreham Southampton Southend Stansted Warton Wattisham

https://www.atcos.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/xSOC-Slide-Edit.jpg.pagespeed.ic.643X46cRcO.webp

[Roadrunner Once]

Thanks, but that's not quite what I was asking. There may be individual Prospect members at all of those units, but at which ones does Prospect do the negotiating? It's not the same thing.

[chevvron]

Years ago, ATCOs at some non NATS units (eg Southampton before it became NATS, Dunsfold too I think) were members of T & GWU.
Some NATS controllers left Prospect or rather its predecessors (IPCS then IPMS) when they were required to strike due to a dispute which had nothing to do with NATS (it was purely civil service)

[ZOOKER]

It seems very strange that the Prospect ATCO's Branch Chairman is a 'Supervisor' at the largest NATS unit. Surely a 'Supervisor' is a management role?

How can a Band 5 NATS Manager properly represent the views of working ATCOs at such locations as Carlisle, The Scilly Isles, Newquay, Oxford and Shoreham, to name but a few?

Surely there is a 'conflict of interest' here?

[obwan]

Zooker, nothing new; Prospect has only ever represented the views of Swanwick, EGLL and EGKK, not sure about EGKK now.

[Gonzo]

It seems very strange that the Prospect ATCO's Branch Chairman is a 'Supervisor' at the largest NATS unit. Surely a 'Supervisor' is a management role?

How can a Band 5 NATS Manager properly represent the views of working ATCOs at such locations as Carlisle, The Scilly Isles, Newquay, Oxford and Shoreham, to name but a few?

Surely there is a 'conflict of interest' here?

And there I was thinking there was a whole organisation behind Prospect, with salaried national officers and various committees, and of course the unit reps and watch reps. :}

If the whole of ATCO’s Branch is being run by one person, he must be very busy!

By the same token, do you think a Scilly Isles ATCO could ‘properly represent the views’ of working ATCOs at such locations as Swanwick and Heathrow? :hmm:

[ZOOKER]

I never said it was being run by one person Gonzo.

[1985]

I don't think it matters whether hes a NATS band 5 manager if he listens to the reps of those units and represents them on their views/needs/wants. That's the whole point of having unit reps. Lots of unions delegate negotiations to designated people.

Whether having a NATS manager representing NATS Atcos maybe a whole different issue...

[airac]

No ATCO's at Coventry since November 2017

[chevvron]

Zooker, nothing new; Prospect has only ever represented the views of Swanwick, EGLL and EGKK, not sure about EGKK now.

True. The IPCS/IPMS/Prospect rep at Farnborough was often arguing with ATCOs Branch hierarchy because of decisions they took which were detrimental to Farnborough ATCOs interests, station banding being one subject.

[kcockayne]

As a Watch Supervisor at EGJJ I sat on the Executive Committee of the Civil Service Association representing ATCOS & other Civil Servants. There was no confliction of interest & I don’t think anyone who knows me would accuse me of being a “management lackey” ( whatever else they might think of me !) The joint Chairman was the head of the Immigration Service. Nowadays, the Association is affiliated to Prospect but I have no idea if any ATC management are involved in it. There is, in my opinion, no reason to suggest that anyone in a management role would not be able to properly represent the “ workers “ in negotiations with the employers.

[good egg]

What vacancies are we talking about again?....

[Gonzo]

Agreed. Perhaps if people want to talk about the effectiveness of Prospect, they could start another thread? If unit banding is the issue, perhaps starting a thread in the NATS forum might be better.

[ZOOKER]

good egg,

Good question.

[good egg]

Carlisle (x2)
Southend

[ZOOKER]

EGNC for me then, good egg.

Is there a link?

[good egg]

EGNC for me then, good egg.

Is there a link?

Wick, Kirkwall, Battersea if you prefer?

[good egg]

East Mids too