Is anyone recruiting? [Archive]

pipistrelle

6th Jul 2002, 02:38

Dear I.W. there are some early encouraging signs that the jobs market may be starting to open up. My advice is just keep sending out C.V's, targetting the smaller operators and the regionals. Your perseverance will pay off in the end. I'm sure you know all the relevant sources for info, the BALPA employment conferences are a good place to meet some of the right people.
Good luck, it is worth it in the end.

"piper pilot" you will probably remain a Piper pilot with your attitude

Honest Fr@nk

6th Jul 2002, 08:39

The Balpa job conferences are a good place to put faces to names but as far as meeting them. Well it really is a free for all-people pushing and shoving during the lunch break in order to get to one of the speakers to shove their CV in their hand and retort "hullo I've got 152.5 hours!!!"

Impressive_Wingspan

7th Jul 2002, 20:20

Pipistrelle

Thanks for that but I'm not really looking at the moment, well not too hard. Am RHS turboprop and up for command fairly soon (depending on movement in my company that is).

Piperpilot have you ever heard the term "Low grade mental defective". You turned a not unreasonabe question based on honest intrigue (after briefly looking through the wannabes forum) into a slanging match. Like i said it is quite a shame you have nothing more constructive to say.

Bucking Bronco

8th Jul 2002, 17:15

Hear Hear,

Piperpilot has posted some pretty immature nonsense on other threads. Don't think he'll be getting far in interviews somehow.

Don't think there is much recruitment going on at the moment. Traditionally a bit quiet at this time of year picking up in the Autumn.

Gin Slinger

8th Jul 2002, 18:16

Give me strength

distaff_beancounter

8th Jul 2002, 18:52

Now let me see:-
According to piperpilot's own poll on this forum, about 47% of the respondents are employed as commercial pilots, with the other 53% being Wanabees.

So, I wonder, just to myself, mind you:-
.... is PPRuNe Wannabes, read by any airline employees, such as F/Os, Captains, Training Captains, OR even recruitement managers?

AMEX

8th Jul 2002, 19:32

Hall of Fame

In a different category from the Guv, Ronchonner,and others, Piperpilot has now a special place too. Keep your comments and questions going PP, very entertaining, plus once in a while we need someone like you :D :D :D

Gin Slinger

8th Jul 2002, 19:41

bean counter:

I'm sure Rod Edington likes nothing more that to relax after a hard day's work reading PPRuNe wannabes to pick out the cream of the crop to hire as CEP's for the Concorde fleet...;)

AMEX

8th Jul 2002, 19:55

Gin Slinger

Spot on mate because whilst Rod and I were enjoying a Tetleys at last night's BBQ, this is exactly what he was telling me. :D

distaff_beancounter

8th Jul 2002, 20:22

AMEX & Gin Slinger ... I agree, we all need the likes of PP to liven up the debate.

And we should give him a chance, as the child only reached his 17th birthday, a couple of months ago :D

G-SPOTs Lost

8th Jul 2002, 20:49

PP

Just curious have you found somebody to lend you your 60K yet for your oxford course? :D

Gin Slinger

8th Jul 2002, 22:33

Look, it's not fair, all the older ones ganging up on the young ones...that's called bullying! (;))

Bucking Bronco

8th Jul 2002, 22:47

Piperpilot:-

Go away and pop some more zits sonny. Some of the people on the wannabes threads must wonder why they bother wasting time with the likes of you. Although I do agree with some of the others here - you do provide entertainment. Keep the c**p coming - I do like people who can have a laugh at their own expense (unintentionally I suspect in your case).

I hope they don't bully too much at OATS or wherever it is whose net you have slipped through.

As for passing interviews for airlines, I'll give you a clue ; more than you !!

J-Heller

8th Jul 2002, 23:07

Eh - I think PP might have got the message by now!

PP - When you first came on the forum you asked about all sorts and were given good advice.

I suggest you have a read of your postings and see how your attitude has been increasingly supercilious. You should try and turn this around.

Quite apart from this ever affecting you in any future interview (and who's to say that it wont), I do think that you will find the forum far more helpful if you just go after the facts, thank people that help you, ignore the dafter comments and generally cut out the haughty bull****!

All the best,

:)

JH

beamer

9th Jul 2002, 08:13

To get back to the original thread and the question posed......

Yes, there are jobs out there but unfortunately all airline operators are trying to screw as much as they can out of the
downturn in the market whilst they are able to do so. Crewing
ratios have also been reduced in order to raise 'productivity' thus
further reducing demand due to natural wastage.

Low-cost operators are still expanding ( slight pause with Easyjet/Go deal) but are still trawling for 737 type ratings - how
many more can be out there notwithstanding all our colonial cousins - another debate for another time ! The charter operators
are feeling the pinch to some degree as DHL are in need of substantial numbers of 757 pilots for whom the charter airlines
provide a ready pool. Why go to fly night freight - simple - poor
command prospects in existing company or too close to the bottom end of a seniority list which can make one feel rather
vulnerable.

The next twelve months should see a return to demand - assuming WW3 does not break out in the meantime. The larger
operators will still however require 'quality' time which means
significant jet/medium turboprop hours in the logbook. I know this
is hard to accept for those with thousands of hours in single-engine aircraft but it is a fact of life - it may change but don't hold
your breath. Most of us in decent employment know friends who
are often almost too qualified for the bottom end of the market -
'Why should I employ you to fly my aircraft - you'll be off in five
minutes when a better offer comes along'.

As others have said - don't give up - it will get better BUT sometimes you have to go that extra mile to make sure that you
are ahead of the competition - read into that what you will.......

foghorn

9th Jul 2002, 09:18

Come on, folks, I think PP's got the message now. Don't queue up to take a shot like the famous scene in Airplane.

We're all allowed to make mistakes, more so when young. The key life skill is learning from them and bouncing back.

foggy.

Wee Weasley Welshman

9th Jul 2002, 10:17

This summer there is plenty of flying going on.

Most airlines will be making good money and the worst fears post Sept11th are retreating.

There are therefore noises coming out of various airlines about recruitment in the Autumn. I can see all the experienced crews laid off post Sept from the likes of Gill, Virgin, Brit World, BMI et al all being back in airline employment by Christmas.

However I would worry about things then slowing right back down.

Lets face it there are interest rate hikes inbound and a property market making a lot of people very very jittery. A percent on the base rate by Christmas is possible and this will take a lot of discretionary spending out of the market, i.e. when you fret about the mortgage you don't go on second holidays or weekend breaks.

Manufacturing is on its backside and recent gains in output seem to be petering out as the USA stagnates. Mr Browns tax hikes are due to hit next April and the stock market is going nowhere fast for quite some time.

The underlying fundamentals therefore are not great for the next year or so in my highly speculative opinion.

The Charters have millions of unsold holidays on the shelf. The low costers are now reaching saturation in the UK and further growth will be on the continent. The full service carriers are seeing recovery in loads through reduced capacity but those high yielding pax are few and far between.

I did think that we might see a dramatic bounce back from Sept 11. Now I think we are much more likely to see a repeat of the early 1990's. Recovery will be spread over a couple of 3 years.

My advice remains to avoid large training bills associated with Integrated courses if you are not already committed. Gradually adding ratings and hours WHILST keeping a job outside of aviation would seem me to be the most intelligent strategy for the next 12 months.

I currently believe there to be around 800 CPL/IR Frzn ATPL holders in the UK with <500hrs.

WWW

GonvilleBromhead

9th Jul 2002, 10:45

Aye, fair do's foggy. Will delete my last.

As stated in another thread I wish him all the best.

all the best,

Gb
:)

Edit to say: But then you get contributions such as in the "Easyjet selection process" thread, c'mon son, learn eh !!

Think about who you're replying to, you will wind people up (without meaning to I'm sure) with continual replys such as that. Just trying to do you a favour here, think about what you write and who you are writing to.

I'm not being "all big and nasty" here, just trying to stop you getting hammered in the future. And it's not as if you have to have "xyz" qualifications or anything to help people on here with good advice, but maybe a bit of relevant experience might be advised before dishing out all sorts of "advice".

Honestly lad I'm not having a pop at you (PP), but please, just think eh !

Of course you can completely ignore what I'm saying (and others)after all it's the moderators who look after the forum, but you may continue to get an e-bashing, and that would be sad.

Please carry on contributing and reading, this is a good forum to learn from, just temper it a bit maybe ? I wish you all the best PP.

(Am I being too critical or what folks ? If so tell me, don't want to appear harsh on the lad).

)

Gin Slinger

9th Jul 2002, 10:49

I got my monthly edition of the IPA's Skypointer newsletter yesterday.

This month, to celebrate it's 10th birthday, they reprinted the employment news from Issue 1 in the inside cover. There looked to be considerably more vacancies than this months, printed towards the back.

Lots of nice phases, such as minimum frozen ATPL, type rating not nessessarily required and newly qualified CPL's taken.

To be far, issue 1 was from Sept, so it would include the autumn hiring season.

Only anecdotal, but indicative I believe none the less.

GonvilleBromhead

9th Jul 2002, 12:25

Alright son you're obviously not getting it and you will get continually bashed by people, your call. Look at Dave's profile, then re-consider your 17-year old advice to him ?? Does what you say still stand ??? Christ sake, enough of you.

Bucking Bronco

9th Jul 2002, 12:31

PP;-

Read your first post on this thread and go away and have a think about things. Perhaps, show it to your Mum and Dad and see what they say because the decent advice you are getting from people on this forum is not registering with the pea rattling around upstairs in that empty vessel.

Wee Weasley Welshman

10th Jul 2002, 10:18

The Times carries an interesting column predicting War in the Gulf in the New Year:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-351895,00.html

Were this to come about all bets would be off again for industry recovery. Oil proces spike, premium pax and Americans stay at home, security goes ballistic, insurance costs surge, people decide to holiday in Morcombe not Marakesh...

Fingers crossed people,

WWW

Chaffers

10th Jul 2002, 18:18

Cant really see it myself, though it seems like some outrageously extravagant speculation if the journo in question dosn't have something to back up his views.
Sounds more symptomatic of the Times slip into obscurity, incapable of plagiarising their own stories was a quote I heard recently, than any threat to world security. I wait to be proved wrong but hell, you want to move a corps to the Arabian desert you'd better start about now.

Wee Weasley Welshman

11th Jul 2002, 23:22

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_2123000/2123550.stm

War talk stepping up :(

WWW

Gin Slinger

11th Jul 2002, 23:36

I'm sorry, but doesn't that photo make Dubya look like he's having is colon examinated again??!

Chaffers

12th Jul 2002, 00:32

Christ are the Saudi's really going to stage another American invasion of their neighbour? Its not as though Iraq is a threat to Saudi's borders anymore (not that it ever was) and no spin doctor on earth would be able to justify an invasion under the last UN resolution (promote peace and stability in the region?? Yeah lets have a war!), or the possibility that Iraq may be developing nasty 3rd rate weapons.
How the hell is Bush going to get the Gulf states behind him on this? Maybe I'm underestimating the value of the dollar but without foreign basing its a non starter...

Wish I'd payed more attention during Si Murden's middle eastern politics lectures now....

Wee Weasley Welshman

12th Jul 2002, 08:59

Frankly foreign basing is not necessary IF the US decides not to bother with a coalition or UN blessing.

Three Carriers plus half the USMC backed by European based US long range assets could do the job in a jiffy.

Hope not, last thing the industry needs.

WWW

Piltdown Man

12th Jul 2002, 09:10

Yes, they are. KLM uk is currently training it's recently re-hired F/Os made redundant in January and has training courses booked every month this year. The first people to be "hired" will be those on Cadet sponsorships and then when those have gone through the system, the applications pile will be sifted. MCC course not required (it's part of the training). Only "normal" people appear to be recruited so now need for 12,000 hours Space Shuttle.

Have fun!:)

Low-Pass

12th Jul 2002, 09:54

Oh yeah, and thousands of people will be killed....:( :(

Wee Weasley Welshman

12th Jul 2002, 10:49

Good news about KLMuk taking back on previously cancelled chaps. Hope similar happens at Britannia soon and Airtours is taking on the cadets they once chopped after Sept11th.

Still nothing over and above what was happening on Sept10th though.

WWW

Wee Weasley Welshman

12th Jul 2002, 11:37

More evidence for a New Year war in the Gulf from The Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-354027,00.html

On this forum people rightly spend a great deal of time discussing the state of the hiring market. We all, myself incuded, try to divine what the near future holds. Such estimation is necessary for people to make rational choices about committing to training.

These strong indication of upcoming military conflict are of prime importance to such estimation.

I know you can't go on forever waiting another six months just in case. I know many are already committed and don't want to hear advice not to be.

However, I think there is real merit in postponing another 6 months any major committment to training such as giving up your job, taking out a major loan or completing a time limited rating such as an IR.

All bets will be off if we see Gulf WarII in the New Year.

Seriously. The large airlines in the region will freeze recruiting or lay pilots off to the World market and many will head home - here. Americans generally stay at home during wars to watch CNN. The stock market hates a war and they are quite expensive on taxes.

All in all NOT what the airline industry needs right now.

Fingers crossed that it all never comes to pass.

WWW

Wee Weasley Welshman

17th Jul 2002, 09:02

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-358038,00.html

Yet more indication that the UK is headed for coalition military action in Iraq in the early New Year.

People - keep an eye on this. The industry recovery and related hiring that we are just starting to see would almost certainly be snuffed out by a major campaign. :(

WWW

no sponsor

17th Jul 2002, 09:51

I would not get unduly worried.

For centuries, the notion of political posture, and political act, and military action have been used in different means and measures, and are often contrary to one another.

It seems though that the media do not understand the connection and relevance of each, however.

What is of more consequence is the state of economies and restoring faith in capitalism. I think all would agree war would not help. You only need to look to India and Pakistan to realise what the sentiments of the super-powers are to war. Invasion/strike on Iraq would have such de-stabilising actions in the region, that it would be de-stabilising around the world, not to mention India/Pakistan.

mutt

17th Jul 2002, 10:51

WWW, Dubya doesn’t have the same ME support that his father enjoyed in 1991. One only has to look at Colin Powells Middle Eastern journey a couple of months ago to see that. Any US Military attempt to force Saddam out of power will not only result in Gulf War 2, but very likely World War 3. I’m therefore not really worried about my job prospects, I’m worried about my life!

Mutt.

Chilli Ray

17th Jul 2002, 12:19

Any idea how many cadets My Travel are taking on?
I heard a rumour that it may be as many as 20+ but also
that if they take too many there would be an experience shortfall
when commands come around.

BmPilot21

17th Jul 2002, 17:49

I think www's first post on the state of play is about right. Don't forget several big airlines like bmi and ba have cadets waiting, either to start with the airline, or start previously postponed courses.

The only thing I would perhaps disagree with www on is that I think it would actually be a GOOD time to start a '509' course, as by the time you've finished it will be in 18 months time, when I think things will be different. If you wait for the boom before training, by the time you finish you have probably missed it! Also, flying schools are quiet, and you will get plenty of attention as a self sponsored student with no nasty sponsored cadets around nicking all the planes because uncle Rod wants his students out on time!!

I hope things will have picked up by spring 2003, and certainly by 2004. BALPA are predicting a big pilot shortage by 2005-6 (although take this with a pinch of salt - something always seems to come along and spoil it!)

War in the gulf is obviously worrying, and would certainly not help, but I certainly hope it wouldn't be on the scale we saw last time. Confidence in flying since Sept. 11th reapperared sooner than thought, although the effects are still be felt by the lower yields.

Silver Tongued Cavalier

17th Jul 2002, 20:06

Yes, have to agree with WWW on this one.

If I were thinking about embarking on an expensive ATPL I'd at least wait to see what Dubya has planned for Saddam. I reckon it will be over very quickly, time costs money!! But will again be a prime opportunity for Airline management to try and further shaft their staff. :mad:

According to my sources at the sharp end, once the US has its posh bomb stocks piled up to Texan proportions, Dubya's going in while he still has the National backing to finish the job his Dad wasn't allowed to finish. In the meantime I'm sure its a case of all leave cancelled in Dec, and get them aircraft D checked!!!

This is a rumour network after all! :p

Charliebob2000

19th Jul 2002, 04:51

I haven't got the complete set of qualifications as yet, so have no first hand knowledge. All of my friends (with one exception) who do have the full set are getting please wait/reapply or insufficient experiance type rejection letters, or no answer at all from the airlines.
Two have jobs instructing, two have jobs with jump schools, and one hasn't flown for six months.

I think it's fairly true to say that the only people who won't get jobs, are those that give up trying, but of course the question is how long can you afford to wait.

Talking to pilots on both sides of the Atlantic it really does seem that there is substance to the hopes and rumours about an upturn in late 2002, and mid 2003. Lets hope so....

In the meantime, just in case Trg Capts F/Os recruiters do read this forum...my name is...my name is....please please please...here's my CV...I'll even wash the airplane (well maybe not all of it).

Cheers ...