PPL Skills Test

[tobster911]

Hello All,

Well, my instructor thinks I'm prepared for my skills test, so I have it booked for the 8th November. I feel fairly confident with everything, but it's been so long since I've done a nav flight, I feel that I may make a silly mistake or something. There seems to be conflicting reports of what to expect in the test, and one of those relates to the diversion. On the 2nd leg of my planned route, I will, apparently, be asked to divert to a different place. Do I have to draw on the map my new route, or will it just be a case of guesstimating which heading and how far away it is? Or do I also need to do a time calculation in my head etc?

Has anyone got any tips on the test, because it would be great to hear from various people?

Many thanks

T

[Nick T]

For my skills test I had to plot a route from East Mids Airport (the start) to Thrapston (east of Kettering) then to Chipping Campden (about 20 miles due south of the BHX NDB).
Note there's no Chipping Campden back to East Mids Airport :)

First leg was straight forward - just fly to Thrapston. Did that, no problem.
Then start on second leg, fly towards Chipping Campden...

Just after passing Northampton my examiner asked me to do a position fix, which I did using the DTY and HON VORs.
And very shortly after that he asked me to divert to Nuneaton Disused (aka Mira - halfway between Leicester and Birmingham).

As part of this I had to mark it up on the map, calculate the heading (accounting for wind) and ETA (and fly the plane at the same time :lol: )

I got it all spot on, which was nice and ended up passing the test.

So, recommendations from me

- make sure you've got your wind star prepared and know what your ground speed will be at various headings
- have something with you that has a time / distance matrix (if I'm travelling at 90kts then it will take me x minutes to do y miles) - the PLOG forms at the school I learned with had this printed on the back
- get good at using one hand to draw on the map while the other hand's flying the plane (or using the rudder to steer). I'd seen things on forums where the students had asked the examiner to hold the controls while they worked out the divert, but I asked mine a month or so in advance what his thoughts were on that... He said it would reduce his confidence in the pilot...

And good luck!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5647/30212462610_0e789b27f8_b_d.jpg
Example of the wind star and speed matrix on the back of the PLOG I use...

[tobster911]

Thank you both. NickT, you had to have an exemption from the CAA, if I remember correctly? They took payment for mine on Tuesday, do you know how long it took to get it to you after that?
Thank you

[Nick T]

Hi - yes, I did. IIRC they took payment when they actually sent me the exemption as a PDF via email. That may be because I'd been calling them every other day for an update and 'reminding' them that my skills test was in a few days and I needed the exemption beforehand though :lol: It was definitely 7 or 8 working days after I applied that I got the exemption back, anyway.

And yes, what TangoAlphad said too - all of that very valid, including the bit about making sure you're not diverting off into controlled airspace. My examiner didn't do that, but I'd heard a few like to... (so I made a point of saying 'looking at the track we're not going to be in Birmingham's airspace, but I'll be careful because we're not a million miles away').

[tobster911]

Hmmm, I still haven't had anything from them, which isn't really a surprise, but, I am a little concerned. I've never seen a PLOG like that, how does that wind star work?

[Prop swinger]

As part of your pre-flight prep you calculate the magnetic heading (or drift correction) to achieve a track corresponding to the compass headings in the outer ring. You also calculate your groundspeed for each of those headings.

Here's a website (https://www.lopezshackleford.co.uk/windstar/) that explains & automates the process. After calculating your diversion track & distance in the air you use the wind star to estimate heading, groundspeed & ETA to your diversion.

[tmmorris]

Sounds a bit complicated. Can't you just use max drift and the 6ths rule? Close enough for a diversion.

[Nick T]

It's not complicated in the slightest :)
It's just the same as you planning your usual route at the start, although you're doing it for a few more headings...

Completely takes away the guesswork of the whole thing.

Ok, I have to divert. The map says I need to go a heading of 330°. Let's see... the windstar says that if I want to go 330 I ACTUALLY need to go 315. And my ground speed for 330° is now 70kts.

And as it's 20nm away I'll be there in 17 mins.

Really easy, because you've prepped beforehand and are just reading it off a sheet. One less calculation to worry about when you're stressing in the middle of your test!

[tmmorris]

True, but it strikes me as something you'd be likely to ditch as soon as you have passed the test and have GPS and/or Skydemon to hand. In which case, it's learning for the test, not for real life.

[Nick T]

Some may see it like that (along with how to use a whiz wheel etc, do a manual plog etc.) but for me, as a computer programmer / software development manager / tech early adopter I see it as learning the skills you'll need to rely on when the iPad with Skydemon and Garmin GLO fails ;)

I'll always do a manual plog / wind star before I fly - then I'm prepared :)

[foxmoth]

Sounds a bit complicated. Can't you just use max drift and the 6ths rule? Close enough for a diversion.

As an instructor I would say it is a bit late to be learning a new method when you have a good method that works, stick to the Max drift & 6th.

[Council Van]

True, but it strikes me as something you'd be likely to ditch as soon as you have passed the test and have GPS and/or Skydemon to hand. In which case, it's learning for the test, not for real life.

So why bother to learn how to navigate at all?

[Brad2523]

On my skills test it was all a bit cruder than this, on the divert as mentioned above I found a landmark (a large town I could identify) drew a line from that to the divert destination, measured it with my pencil, rounded the numbers for speed/distance/time calculation and made an educated guess at the drift.

Just a little bit of mental arithmetic, at the end of the test the examiner isn't going to say you've failed as on the divert you were a minute or a degree out.

I hate the GPS bashing that goes on, "children of the magenta line"... "why bother to learn how to navigate" is all a bit patronising. People refusing to use modern technology like GPS, refusing to talk on the radio to anyone or use a transponder are the real danger.

Yes, we all need to know how to read a map and do dead reckoning etc, but why on earth talk down GPS systems? Years ago you'd pay thousands to have this technology, now there's no reason why every pilot wouldn't have it, other than their own arrogance.

[tobster911]

Sounds kinda complex, but I guess nice and simple when you know. So, if I'm told to divert, I don't have to divert straight away, I can orientate myself by flying to a nearby large town or something that's easy to identify, before diverting?

[Heston]

Yes, always divert from a known visual reference point, mark it on your chart and the time you were there before you set off on the diversion (having estimated the route by whatever means your instructor taught you).

[tmmorris]

My point was more that you would have to have a double failure to acquire a day version and also have your GPS go down. By all means use dead reckoning as a fallback technique for GPS failure.

[Whopity]

Has anyone got any tips on the test, because it would be great to hear from various people?
I take it that you have read and digested CAA Standards Doc 19 (http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_Stds%2019_V7_Sept12.pdf) Notes for the Guidance of Applicants taking the PPL Skill Test (Aeroplanes) that your instructor should have given to you!

[BEagle]

Indeed, Whopity!

Quite how a student pilot have reached the PPL Skills Test stage and not have been correctly taught how to cope with a basic VFR practice diversion is also something of a surprise....

I feel fairly confident with everything, but it's been so long since I've done a nav flight, I feel that I may make a silly mistake or something.

Just what are the standards at this RF/ATO? Who would recommend an applicant for a PPL Skill Test if he/she hadn't flown a navigation exercise for so long?

[JDJ]

Hmmm might be an idea to do a Nav flight before the test....

[tobster911]

I think I will. C'mon guys, I'm not saying I'm totally incompetent, just trying to get as many words of wisdom as possible before I sit it. I wouldn't be willing to pay the test fee if I didn't think I wasn't in a position to take and pass the test, but as I say, it's nice to have some helpful advice before I sit the test.

[Parson]

Don't over complicate things. And don't try and learn something new at this stage.

1. Draw diversion route on your map
2. Measure the distance with the end of your thumb (you should know what that is - mine is 9nm)
3. Assess the track by sight
4. Pick a sensible heading based on the legs you have just flown
5. Assess your ground speed based on the legs you have just flown
6. Calculate ETA
7. Make a sensible heading adjustment at mid-point (if required)

That is more than adequate for a PPL diversion

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I take it that you have read and digested CAA Standards Doc 19 Notes for the Guidance of Applicants taking the PPL Skill Test (Aeroplanes) that your instructor should have given to you!
... which upon re-reading I now think "gosh, can I do all that?"

[Whopity]

And could you do it in the time recommended in Part FCL?GM1 FCL.1015 Examiner standardisation
(c) When planning the duration of a test, check or assessment of competence, the following
values may be used as guidance:
(1) 45 minutes for a LAPL(B) or BPL and SP class ratings VFR only;
(2) 90 minutes for LAPL(A) or (H), PPL and CPL, including navigation section;
(3) 60 minutes for IR, FI and SP type or class ratings;
(4) 120 minutes for CPL, MPL, ATPL and MP type ratings.

[BigEndBob]

Every test I have conducted has taken 2 hours plus or minus 5 minutes.
I have taught and wouldn't expect anything more complicated than guesstimate the heading, throw in some wind allowance and thumb out the distance as time.
Good enough, especially once they are qualified and don't get airborne with plotters, protractors, tables or wiz wheels on that local flight that runs into some bad weather.

[tobster911]

Thank you,
I've read the guidance notes and highlighted a couple of bits to talk over with my instructor before I sit the test. 2 Hours is what I'm expecting based on what people have been telling me. I can certainly guesstimate, I was just slightly concerned that the level that some people are going is to properly calculate the route, which isn't necessarily the easiest thing to do whilst flying a plane manually.
Thanks BigEndBob

[BEagle]

You MUST practise flying an in-flight diversion with an instructor before you attempt the Skill Test. Much of the advice you've been given on this thread is unlikely to help.

Here's what I wrote 10 years ago when a previous "Help, how do I do the diversion on my Skill Test" query emerged on PPRuNe:

Unplanned diversions are introduced in the latter stages of navigation training. By then you should have been introduced to MDR (Mental Dead Reckoning), including the calculation and application of Max Drift. I advocate:

Maintain VMC!

Know who to call for assistance if you doubt your ability to cope.

Choose somewhere visually significant to divert from as well as a suitable diversion.

Fly to the ‘divert point’.

The back of the checklist (ours are laminated and have a blank back with a 50 mile ½ mill scale on one edge!), a chinagraph and the CAA 1:500 000 chart are the only planning tools needed:


Use the edge of the checklist as a ruler between divert point and diversion and draw the track line on the chart. Then lookout.
Measure the length of the line, write it on the checklist – then lookout again
Make sure the divert point is still in sight!
Find a suitable VOR rose on the chart, use the checklist edge as a parallel rule and draw a line through the VOR rose parallel to the diversion track. Then lookout.
Read off the track angle – which, of course, is conveniently in degrees magnetic – write it on the checklist. Lookout again.


The 2 most important values, track and distance, are now known. Apply MDR to track (you should have written down the pre-calculated max drift value on the chart, of course!) and estimate the heading.

Note the head or tailwind component and work out groundspeed to the nearest ¼ mile per minute. Then use it as a fraction (e.g. 5/4 miles per min rather than 75 knots) – the error over the short distance involved is unlikely to be significant.

The hardest sum next! Time = Distance / Speed! Either mentally or on the back of the checklist. Write it down, then lookout.

Pre-HAAT check, overfly the divert point, post-HAAT check.

Fly heading and time diligently. Lookout and look down for visually significant points to confirm track maintenance.

WHY haven't you practised this during training? To me it sounds very much like you've been inadequately trained - and don't forget that an FI has to sign you off as being ready for your Skill Test!

[Gentoo]

Probably not exactly what it was designed for, however I see the diversion as a test of whether the student can fly the plane at the same time as focusing on another task.

Even if you are planning to use Skydemon, or some other future method, there will still be a 'task' of some sort that has to be performed at the same time as flying. A task that cannot be fully prepared for.

In real life the situation could be completely different. But if the whole flight test was something that could be prepared for it would lose that element of 'can you fly a plane as well as deal with the unexpected'.

[PA28161]

Don't rely too heavily on GPS/GLONASS, always know your position when flying without constant referral to the magenta line. Look out of the window and consult your chart often, and compare ground features and chart.

A couple of weeks ago I flew o/h Aberfan to take some aerial pix for my wife (a project with her school kids for 50th anniversary). On the return leg to EGBO both SkyDemon on iPad mini (blue-toothed to GDL39) and my Garmin GPSMAP 695 malfunctioned for about 15 minutes, no signal, frozen screens. I always, as a matter of principle, maintain a regime of knowing my position by a combination of DR and pilotage. Also if your aircraft is equipped learn to use radio navigation aids such as VOR/ADF/DME. In my case I was tuned in to BCN VOR/DME

When you pass your skill test don't give up on DR/line drawing on charts/whiz wheels/pilotage but continue to practise often. You never know when, all else fails, it could just get you out of a sticky situation

[tobster911]

Well, I passed. RT exam in a fortnight.

[thing]

Well done! :D. Wise words from PA28161 above.

[tobster911]

Absolutely. Although I have every intention of using SkyDemon, I will certainly keep my route plotted on a chart, with a printed PLOG and maintain my situational awareness because, as has been said, with technology, it's not a case of if it will go wrong, but when.

[Nick T]

Congrats on the pass!

One word of advice, as I know you got an exemption...
If you're applying online, make sure you find a way of sending the exemption in as well (it won't be asked for).
If you apply via post, include the exemption in the things you send off.

Yes, I know they sent it to you, but they won't remember that when it comes to processing your application (they certainly didn't with mine). It took an email to the CEO to finally sort my licence out...

[tobster911]

Thanks Nick. No problem, I'll ensure I do that. Not sure whether it'll be better to do online or in the post, what do you reckon? I want to send both RT and LST off together so I can get them both back at the same time. I get the feeling that the CAA's organisation of paperwork etc is a bit shocking, as there is no way in hell it takes a month to look at some evidence and provide a license.

[Nick T]

You're correct - it doesn't take a month. It took them 9 weeks exactly to process mine.

I did the online application.

7.5 weeks after applying they said I'd not sent the course completion certificate through so they couldn't progress my application. Turns out there's a different cert for online applications. Check that your course completion cert has all the hour breakdowns, exam passes etc. listed on it. If it's the traditional blue one then that's the wrong one for online!

Then, a week after sending them the different cert they said that because I started my training in 2004 then I needed to send in my logbook so they could examine it to see if I had done enough hours, and sent me a link to the pre-2012 requirements, the thing I'd been granted an exemption from.

Anyway, after I sent an email to the CEO I had a phone call back that afternoon from the head of licensing saying I didn't have to send my logbook in, they'd found the exemption and my license was all signed off and back in the post to me.

Long story short - I'd have had a lot less hassle if I'd posted it all in...

But either way, you're still looking at a 40-50 working day lead time...

[tobster911]

Bl00min heck... I think I'll post it all off so I can try my best to ensure I have everything. I'll also call them a week after I send it to confirm they've received it all (as well as sending it all signed for delivery). 9 weeks is insane, were you able to exercise any privileges of your license until you received it back?

[TheOddOne]

From the CAA's website:

Same day services’ conditions


The following conditions apply:

•You or your representative must arrive before 11:30am with all relevant documentation completed otherwise your application will have to be re-submitted.

•Applications are processed on a 'first come, first served' basis.

Multiple applications
•If you are applying for more than one applicant, the airline or organisation must request this in writing at least one working day in advance by emailing [email protected].

•Requests for multiple applicants will be accepted subject to business demands.


We are unable to provide a same day service for application for licence issue or upgrades, or any other service not listed above; however the applications may be handed in at the Public Counter and will be subject to the 10 working days turnaround service.

So you could peddle your way round the M25/M23 and deliver the docs in person. They MIGHT look through your application to see if it's all in order. Probably better than the uncertainties of the post.

TOO

[tobster911]

Oooh, and then 10 days turnaround too? That may be the way to do it as I'm not all that far from Gatwick. Or I could fly in :p

[ryan1995]

I recently passed my skills test also, and was having the same debate as to whether apply online/by post/take it to the caa in person. In the end I opted to take the 45 minute car journey and take all the paperwork down in person as I figured it would be quicker. It is very efficient there, I arrived around 2pm and it was quiet. At the desk they asked if I just wanted to drop off the application or speak to someone from licensing. I opted to speak with someone as I had a few questions. They printed me off a pass to get through the barrier and showed me the waiting area and within a minute or two someone was with me. I got them to check through everything to make sure everything was present and correct which it was, asked a few questions and then I was on my way. Overall I'd say I was in the building 10-15 minutes. The next day they left a message saying that they'd received my application and that the processing time was approx. 4 weeks, which was some improvement on the 6-8 weeks which I was told when at the caa.

[tobster911]

Oh heck, it's a 4 hour, 200 mile round trip for me. Maybe it would be better to post it, but I like the idea of speaking to someone in person to double check it's all OK. Hmmm

[Nick T]

were you able to exercise any privileges of your license until you received it back?
Nope.

No passengers, had to be signed off by an instructor if I wanted to go out solo (which I didn't). Only had two flights, a check out in the Warrior and a jaunt in the 152 with an instructor.

Did my first flight with a passenger yesterday. Bloody nervewracking!

[tobster911]

Absolutely naff that. Nicely done though, may have been nervewracking, but you did it well as you typed that comment :) Who was your first passenger?

[Nick T]

One of the guys from the office actually!

I'm fortunate that I work on site at East Mids Airport so when I was driving in yesterday and saw how nice the weather looked I phoned up the club and booked a plane for a lunchtime bimble. Was good that one of the guys from the office wanted to come with and split costs! :)

In a way it's a bit disappointing it wasn't my parents or wife first (I've had a plane booked the past few weekends for that but been thwarted due weather) but in a way it was good taking someone else up as I could get the stress of the 'first passenger' out of the way so when I do take family I'll be a whole lot more relaxed :D

Edit: the takeoff wasn't as nice as it could have been and didn't get to do the proposed trip to Ladybower due to a cloudbase a hell of a lot lower than predicted but the landing was a bloody greaser ;)

[tobster911]

Oooh excellent. I suppose it's good with it not being a relation as it takes the stress out of their first flight with you, as you say. Great that he was willing to split costs. I have a few colleagues who are battling it out for the first flight, all willing to pay, which is nice. What went wrong with the take off, or was it just a case of it not being quite perfect? Shame about the cloudbase, my first flight with the Mrs, I quite fancy taking her to see her great auntie, who she hasn't seen for a long time. She lives about 30 minutes by plane, but 3 hours by car, and there's an airfield 5 mins from her house :)

Nicely done with the landing