LCY closed due to "chemical incident" [Archive]

Carbon Bootprint

21st Oct 2016, 17:29

Sky is reporting "breaking news" that London City Airport has been closed after a fire alarm sounded in the terminal about 16:00 local and passengers started feeling "unwell." Incident is now being attended by Metropolitan Police, London Ambulance Service and London Fire Brigade. Hazmat is on site for what is termed as a "chemical incident."About 500 people were evacuated from the premises. Latest report from the ambulance service is 26 people treated and two taken to hospital. Flights are being diverted to other London airports.

Super VC-10

21st Oct 2016, 17:33

London City Airport evacuated and flights stopped after 'chemical incident' | Metro News (http://metro.co.uk/2016/10/21/london-city-airport-evacuated-and-flights-stopped-after-chemical-incident-6207350/)

HeartyMeatballs

21st Oct 2016, 17:49

Apparently nearby building works could have caused it. Hopefully it's nothing sinister.

Either way if I were in London now I'd be avoiding public transport and busy areas. Just in case it's the start of something bigger.

barry lloyd

21st Oct 2016, 17:51

‘We are now all standing on the tarmac under the wing of the airplane [sic] because it has started to rain.’

Does LCY have different rules from other airports when it comes to pax standing under wings?

Alsacienne

21st Oct 2016, 19:54

From the TV footage I saw, everyone seemed to be mighty close to the terminal building. Might it not have been safer to move them away from all that glass and concrete ... there were no arriving or departing planes to run them over if they had been moved to the other side of the apron/runway ... but what do I know!!

flight_mode

21st Oct 2016, 20:26

Everything about LCY is mighty close. Especially on a Friday afternoon when there's simply too many PAX in the terminal. It's a hot airless sweat box. Concern will quickly turn into agitation and then panic next thing someone smashes an alarm point.

beamender99

21st Oct 2016, 21:04

The airport was declared "safe" at about 19:00, with police finding what they think might be a CS gas spray.
In a statement, the Metropolitan Police said they are not treating the case as "terrorist related".
The force statement continued: "A search of the airport led to the discovery of what is believed to be a CS gas spray.
"Whilst the cause of the incident has not yet been confirmed, officers are investigating whether it was the result of an accidental discharge of the spray."

Carbon Bootprint

21st Oct 2016, 22:17

Sky now reporting the CS gas found was apparently discarded by a passenger "prior to check in." Nevertheless, security remains high given the discovery of a suspicious package at North Greenwich tube station recently.

I'm now in London, hoping it all holds together for my flight out tomorrow...

FrontSeatPhil

22nd Oct 2016, 08:41

Does LCY have different rules from other airports when it comes to pax standing under wings?

When you've got a large crowd of people and, presumably, not many people controlling them, rules go out the window.

Given the option of standing in the rain or ignoring a man in a hi-vis vest and standing under shelter, I know I'd be remaining dry.

barry lloyd

22nd Oct 2016, 08:44

Given the option of standing in the rain or ignoring a man in a hi-vis vest and standing under shelter, I know I'd be remaining dry.

Ha ha! You'd remain dry until the fuel poured out of the wing and you were covered in kerosine. Then you'd be in the local A&E. Trust me, I've seen it happen more than once. (This is why you shouldn't stand under the wing).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZD-k0Gp2gc

noflynomore

22nd Oct 2016, 09:26

Why are people getting exercised about standing under wings? Is it somehow harmful or dangerous? How bizarre!

If pax are evacuated to airside in the rain do you really expect trivial minor regs like not walking under the wing to be retained? I'd love to see some little Hitler in a yellow florrie try to enforce that. Sometimes common sense takes precedent, even over Magenta Line Pavlovism or the blinkered H & S fanaticism we seem to have suddenly developed here.

Fuel pour out of wing my @***. I've never seen that in 35 years - and do you suppose they'd still be refuelling with an emergency on?

Some people really need to leave their flourescent jackets behind occasionally.

Nemrytter

22nd Oct 2016, 09:39

Some people really need to leave their flourescent jackets behind occasionally.:ok:
This is all a bit silly, to be honest.

c52

22nd Oct 2016, 09:46

I have a happy memory of standing under a Vulcan during a downpour at an airshow.

Gertrude the Wombat

22nd Oct 2016, 10:50

Fuel pour out of wing my @***. I've never seen that in 35 years
I have.

Sitting in a 747 at Sydney, taxiing for take-off.

When the crew's attention was drawn to this by a passenger we were all taken off and put on a replacement plane some hours later. Which did leave me wondering how often this happens without being reported by a passenger.

Hotel Tango

22nd Oct 2016, 13:32

GtW, rather different circumstances to a parked aircraft on the ramp. Seeing fuel "leak" from the wing during taxi is actually not all that uncommon. Seen it a few times myself. Try comparing apples with apples if you want to make a point!

IcePack

22nd Oct 2016, 13:46

Trouble is people get 1 drip of jet A1 on them & next thing compensation is required.
Unless you know where the vents are don't stand under the wing.

IcePack

22nd Oct 2016, 13:49

What is the opinion of Pprune surfers of a personal cs spray discarded in a trash can causing 26 people to need treatment. Seems odd to me.

Permafrost_ATPL

22nd Oct 2016, 14:43

If pax are evacuated to airside in the rain do you really expect trivial minor regs like not walking under the wing to be retained? I'd love to see some little Hitler in a yellow florrie try to enforce that. Sometimes common sense takes precedent, even over Magenta Line Pavlovism or the blinkered H & S fanaticism we seem to have suddenly developed here.

1) Hitler
2) Common sense
3) Pavlov
4) Blinkered
5) Health and Safety
6) Fanaticism

You score six points on the Daily Mail scale - in two sentences! That's some achievement noflynomore :ok:;)

Carbon Bootprint

22nd Oct 2016, 15:51

Permafrost

It seems you missed "Magenta Line", but I guess that's more of a PPruNe thing. It's prolly best the average DMailer doesn't know about that.

IcePack

It seems odd to me as well. I've had canisters of CS I kept in my vehicle due to one rogue "rescue" dog I had who could be a concern in a runaway situation. (It was intended for the dog if I needed to keep him from a person or other animal he might bother on a walkabout.) I've given them to my wife for self defense. All the canisters I've had have all had a locking system to prevent accidental discharge.

I've taken a dose of CS before in "training" and found it quite unpleasant.

Prober

22nd Oct 2016, 15:57

You really do need some technical knowledge here. If there is an hydraulic heat exchanger in one of the wings, then any ice forming due to cold soak during the previous flight will rapidly melt and fill the back of your neck with ice cold water. :{
Bin there, dunnit!

Two's in

22nd Oct 2016, 17:45

What is the opinion of PPRuNe surfers of a personal cs spray discarded in a trash can causing 26 people to need treatment. Seems odd to me.

Without knowing any detailed facts (apparently not a barrier to the Metro reporter either) all it takes is somebody to take a squirt to see what it is, and because CS is a deliberate irritant, it will quickly affect anyone in the immediate area. Highly unpleasant stuff, especially when you don't know what it is affecting you and start rubbing affected areas which aggravates and amplifies the symptoms.

T28B

22nd Oct 2016, 17:49

I am having a hard time understanding this incident.
1) Someone had some CS spray on their person.
2) I presume that bringing that on board an aircraft is a no-no.
3) Can gets discarded.
4) How did that cause a hazard to other people? Did it rupture?

core_dump

22nd Oct 2016, 21:36

Is it common for civilians to be running around with CS spray (tear gas) on their person in the UK? Carrying OC spray (pepper spray) is extremely common here, but not even police would be carrying CS unless heading to a riot situation. OC seems to be the tool of choice for routine police work. Unlike OC, CS usually comes in a rather large canister that I would think would be inconvenient to conceal.

I've never had the "pleasure" of being subjected to CS, but I've had plenty of dealings with OC in an enclosed space and it can linger for a surprising amount of time. I can see how a canister of OC could be discarded, then heavier items get placed in the bin which causes the discharge spray button to get pressed. A fogger-type spray would create plenty of dispersal even from the bin. The physical symptoms are not exactly pleasant even walking into a room 15+ minutes after a spray. All it would take is a few easily excitable pax and it turns into mass hysteria. But again that's OC. Maybe CS is similar.

Carbon Bootprint

22nd Oct 2016, 21:47

T28B,

I have no real knowledge of what happened, but I believe your suppositions are right in the first three statements. As for your question in item 4, I can only postulate that if it was an "innocent" event, someone felt it would be safer to discharge it (probably into the bin) before dumping the canister into the bin. My wife would do such lunacy, and that would not be the craziest thing I've seen her do. Before you ask, neither she nor I have ever been to LCY.

If it's not so innocent, I guess it could have been worse.

PersonFromPorlock

22nd Oct 2016, 23:24

From what I recall from crew briefings during the Vietnam war, we had three kinds of chemical irritant for use in rescuing downed crew in enemy territory: DL, CN, and CS. DL was conventional tear gas, CN was a 'nausea' agent, and CS was 'not used because it was too dangerous to the downed crewman'.

Which is why the idea of a 'personal CS spray' cannister makes me go "huh?"

peekay4

23rd Oct 2016, 03:44

Conventional tear gas is CS, which replaced CN. DM was the nausea agent. CS is more potent than CN but was found to be less toxic in the long run.

Pepper spray (OC) may actually be even more potent than CS, depending on the concentration.

CS spray is a highly diluted form of CS (dissolved in liquid). In the US, CS spray is typically just 1% CS. UK police uses 5% CS.

Mace, the popular personal protection brand, was originally based on 1% CN. Now it is mostly pepper spray (up to 10% OC), but the company still makes products with CN.

sitigeltfel

23rd Oct 2016, 07:02

AtomKraft

23rd Oct 2016, 08:39

Well, I've had deliberate exposure to CS- in a gas chamber- and it's very not nice!

It can and does induce panic in people who are briefed and expecting to be exposed to it. I guess the effects would be magnified if you didn't know what it was.

On the subject of standing under the wing. I once was starting up at LCY, funnily enough. When we'd got a few started, the start crew told us to shut down. It was a fuel leak from the wing, and as it was a Avro RJ-100, when the engineer got on his steps to fix the leaking MFLI- with his rubber hammer, he did so in full view of the pax on that side.:)

He gave it a few gentle taps- which didn't work. He then gave it a big prod, which resulted in a couple of gallons of Jet A-1 landing on him! However, this stopped the leak. So he wandered off happily for a clean up. I guess he wasn't going for a fag......

Shortly after this, I found myself explaining the situation to a concerned lady passenger. She wanted off. I said she was free to go. (didn't blame her really). She then said she wanted off, and she wanted her money back.

I explained the aircraft was going to Glasgow now, as she wished it to do when she bought her ticket- so either hop off or stay on, but choose quickly please, so the rest of us can go. She got off..

ACMS

23rd Oct 2016, 10:30

Don't stand under a wing?
During refueling yes perhaps I'd agree.
Other times not a problem.

In 30 years I've only once had fuel running out of a wing, that was during refueling on a 744 when the outboard tank shutoff failed and it over filled.......

That was the only time, I think the risk is very very low on a modern Aircraft.

glad rag

23rd Oct 2016, 18:17

Sounds like a dry run to me.

As for CS it was a point NOT to run for the door when some masked up sadist set to work in the chamber,
If you ignore the nasal, eye irritation (because it isn't going away) and dont rub anything you can withstand a lot of the stuff, I know of one sadist who was shall we say was surprised to be offered out by not one, not two but three of No1 SofTT graduate misfits who all had their masks off and had had enough if his little games.....

WHBM

23rd Oct 2016, 22:33

Meanwhile back at the incident ...

What news from the police at my local airport ? They certainly spend enough time in the LCY terminal parading their Uzi machine guns in front of everyone at the top of the escalator and trying to look tough. Here we appear to have someone with a substance which is illegal to possess in the first place, who has then discharged it and led to people ending up in hospital, quite apart from the gross disruption to the services. The police appear to know, by stating it was a passenger, who it was. So what charges have been made ?

falcon12

24th Oct 2016, 12:31

ACMS

Standing under a wing. Can agree with you re fuel but I once saw a ground crew standing under a Vulcan on start up - a standard procedure. Started first engine and the main gear only retracted!! No one killed but the a/c was written off.

zantopst

24th Oct 2016, 12:47

Hi, I was actually one of the passengers stuck on the ramp for 3 hours during this. It was raining for about 1 minute so I don't really think many people stood under the wings. The funniest part of the whole episode was when one person asked to buy a bottle of water from the airside vending machines outside the terminal, only to be told the vending machines were also unsafe due to the incident going on, despite the fact that 2 police officers and 3 people in high viz jackets were stood within 5 feet of those same unsafe vending machines.. the term complete farce was what I would use when the segregation of departing and arriving passengers went wrong and they had no idea who was who on the ramp!!

sitigeltfel

24th Oct 2016, 14:29

A 25yo man has been arrested, then bailed, over the incident.

Arrest over chemical alert at London City Airport - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-37753261)

HeathrowAirport

25th Oct 2016, 17:53

A lot of playing down of this incident and the one at North Greenwich, which was an IED found given to a tube driver. I am curious to know what the outcomes of these investigations will be, dry run maybe?

LadyL2013

26th Oct 2016, 14:59

Yep, dry runs with smaller, viable devices. The chemical and container are not as reported.

A lot of the time 'chemical spills' or 'incidents' are practice dry runs. It's a constant game of cat and mouse, most of the time, the cat catches the mouse, but sometimes they slip through and that's where attacks happen. It's terrifying how often these incidents happen with the public completely oblivious.

Source: family member in the CBRN.

I cannot, for obvious reasons, say any more than that.