View Full Version : Swanwick MIL closed for a long weekend?
Rich3
20th Oct 2016, 22:29
Swanwick MIL closed until Monday 0700.
What's going on? Any rumours?
How come the D323 complex was active this evening, yet no military controllers and no military aircraft in the sky.
Carbon emissions shall be on the increase this weekend, all that extended routing for the civilian traffic having to re-route.
zonoma
21st Oct 2016, 08:18
Can you post a link showing the document that says they are "closed"? I'm fairly certain they cannot "close", however if they have tasks over the weekend, they may be notifiying civil traffic that they will not provide any radar services this weekend. And how do you know that there weren't any military aircraft flying?
FantomZorbin
21st Oct 2016, 08:29
I'm sure you'll get an answer to a call on 121.5.
Rich3
21st Oct 2016, 08:32
Don't have a link to a formal document, not seen anything, although airlines are being asked to amend flight plans and re-route....Hence why I'm asking the question?
No NOTAMS and nothing coming through NATS.
Rich
Rich3
21st Oct 2016, 08:44
I'm sure you'll get an answer to a call on 121.5.
I'm sure that we will, unfortunately that does not help the airlines requiring a radar service within the FIR.
obwan
21st Oct 2016, 09:11
If they have closed for the weekend I hope the Russian battle group sailing down the Channel doesn't know.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
21st Oct 2016, 09:27
Can't be sports day - that's Wednesday isn't it?
Rich3
21st Oct 2016, 09:32
It is a Friday...perhaps they are in the pub..they've gone down The Jolly Sailor.
Southside Hangers
21st Oct 2016, 10:44
Can't be sports day - that's Wednesday isn't it?
Ha ha too funny :)
zonoma
21st Oct 2016, 23:19
I'm sure you'll get an answer to a call on 121.5.
.....by Swanwick Military...... (kind of my point)
Swanwick Military do not close. Ever. Whether they are willing to offer a service is another thing, and prenoting civil traffic that if you fancy flying this weekend expecting a Military service you are not going to get one, then that is just safety in operation. Being told that certain routes are closed due to danger area activity so rerouting is in operation, surely that is standard and just accepted?
I've still got no answers as to how anyone thinks there weren't any fighters in the areas during the closure?.............
Not Long Now
22nd Oct 2016, 07:08
They were all in the channel chasing the Ruski navy...
Rich3
22nd Oct 2016, 12:37
Being told that certain routes are closed due to danger area activity so rerouting is in operation, surely that is standard and just accepted?
Yes, it is also standard practice to promulgate the closure giving sufficient notice.
The service offered by Swanwick Military is published in the AIP, therefore why not promulgate the closure? Surly our armed forces plan their exercises in advance?
Instead the service was withdrawn without any notice for a period of four days. We had aircraft already airborne where the fuel calculation had been based upon the flight plan route, therefore eurocontrol had not been informed either. The re-route impacted upon our reserve.
This closure should have been notified in advance through the correct channels.
I understand that there has been a u-turn and that normal service has resumed.
D323 is not controlled by Swanwick Mil but normally by Boulmer or Scampton.
The only area where Swanwick Mil offer a service (unless by prior agreement) is the Pennine Radar area, detailed in the AIP. It states that service is subject to unit workload, so the inference is that service provision is not guaranteed. Operators should be prepared for that. Having said that, if a long term service reduction is planned, then a NOTAM from Swanwick Mil would be sensible.
For other airspace, the company must have an agreement with Swanwick Mil for service provision. Eastflight are one such company that spring to mind for operations North of NATEB. In my experience, Swanwick Mil are very good at keeping such companies in the loop and giving them the chance to decide whether to refile through Controlled Airspace or take their chances in Class G.
Which airspace are you referring to ?
LostThePicture
23rd Oct 2016, 22:13
The only area where Swanwick Mil offer a service (unless by prior agreement) is the Pennine Radar area
This is not quite correct. They offer radar services outside CAS to EGBB inbounds and outbounds from the South and West across the Shawbury Triangle. To jet aircraft, this service is generally offered outside of 0900-1700 on weekdays, H24 at weekends. It is quite a popular shortcut, and may be the one being referred to.
LTP
You are correct, for aircraft which are outside CAS over the whole of the UK in fact, however a pre note to Swanwick Mil is required (which can be done via various methods). As per the Pennine task, the AIP again states that the service is subject to workload so is not guaranteed. A NOTAM explaining the reduction in service and detailing affected areas would be helpful.
Apart from company reasons, there is no forced increase on route mileage on operations outside CAS when Swanwick Mil are not available. It's up to the operator to assess what service is available and make their risk management decisions. As a Swanwick Mil service is never guaranteed, the operators and pilots should have a plan B up their sleeve in case they can't get an appropriate service outside CAS. I suspect the high level of availability from Swanwick Mil leads many to dispense with this part of the flight planning process !!
The scenario does lead nicely in to an age old Conundrum, which is prevalent in the London FIR. When the TRAs are not active and Class C airspace exists above FL195, why don't Swanwick Civil provide ATC outside the published route structure ? Who is responsible for the provision of ATC in that CAS ? Someone has to be.