Join the RAF, GO TO LOSSIEMOUTH

[pr00ne]

Latest DIO contracts bulletin makes for interesting reading, not least the contract for Typhoon Squadron uplift: one additional squadron to Lossiemouth and one to Coningsby, and transfer of OCU to Lossiemouth.

So, Lossiemouth will then hold four operational Typhoon Squadrons, the Typhoon OCU AND the entire P-8 Poseidon force.

Somewhat cramped, overcrowded and rather busy?

Join the RAF and see Scotland. Interesting when Scotland becomes independent...

[k3k3]

At least it would by a chance for a foreign posting...

[MPN11]

Reactivate Kinloss as an RLG? ;)

[pr00ne]

MPN11.

No need, it already is.

[MPN11]

Ahhh ... shows how out of touch I have become!

[PostMeHappy]

Just because DIO have let a contract does not make it official MOD business...just saying...

[57mm]

IIRC, Lossiemouth was home to some 100 aircraft when Sandy Wilson was Staish, so it's no stranger to large numbers.

[Easy Street]

It was rumoured that the 'P-8 to Lossiemouth' decision was taken by the previous PM with little to no consideration of the basing options being worked up by MOD. An astute political move, for sure, with the independence fox having been well and truly shot (with barely a whimper from Sturgeon after the Brexit vote). But Mrs May has shown ruthlessness in dispensing with Dave's legacy, so who's to say the stuffing of the Typhoon Force into Lossie won't see the P-8 displaced elsewhere - or at least the options given proper consideration?

[Arclite01]

She may well move the P-8 elsewhere. Or not - at the moment the security of Scotland is the security of the UK.

Ultimately TM could remove the Trident fleet and the Typhoon fleet and the P8 fleet and leave a massive financial/economic hole in Scotland and a massive boost to England/Wales by bringing it back to the South. Personally I think it's unlikely............. the strategic positioning to address the routes most likely used by our red 'friends' on their journeys 'out and about' is a key consideration

I was in Scotland this weekend and was surprised to find so many people who were still not keen on an Independent Scotland despite all the spin and hype from the SNP and the Brexit decision.................. apparently a recent poll in the Scotsman newspaper still showed a majority (slightly reduced) in favour of staying within the United Kingdom.

Perhaps there are people out there with a wider view after all..............

Arc

[Just This Once...]

The original plan, pre-politics, was to base the P-8 at Waddington....

[reds & greens]

Given the opportunity to rejoin again at age 17.5, I'd do it in a heartbeat if I could go back up North. Perhaps times have changed, and my tenure at Kinloss cannot be repeated, but the Kin/Loss area, people and the work there for 7 years was truly fabulous.
Join up and go to Scotland, count me in!

[Sandy Parts]

cannot see the problem - will be great to have lossie stuffed full of the RAF's finest aviators, all selected as the 'best of the best', all ready to carry out operational sorties 24/7/365, all capable of operating the very latest cutting-edge mil technology and able to switch between roles at a moment's notice and deliver a variety of precision weapons.........oh, and it will be good for them to bump into the Typhoon types now and then as well ;)

[Tinribs]

It has always puzzled me that our Scottish cousins strongly sought freedom but wanted to give it up to Europe, odd that.
Having lived in Scotland for five years it seems an emotional decision when a true patriot does what is best for his country not what suits his mood

[Sevarg]

So now a couple of well placed cruise missiles and we lose half our air force. Great planning.

[ShotOne]

When I was there in eighties there were Buccaneers, Jaguars, Hunters, Shackletons and Sea Kings. I didn't count them but there were lots. I appreciate the "eggs in one basket" argument, but "cramped, overcrowded."...Really??

"Independence within Europe" ..only the SNP could campaign under a banner with such a glaring contradiction

[Dan Gerous]

So now a couple of well placed cruise missiles and we lose half our air force. Great planning.
You could say that about any RAF airfield, we have so few now.

[BEagle]

At least the Navy used to have a weekend shuttle 'tilly' from Jockistan to civilisation in a Sea Heron....

No doubt easyJet flights from Inverness will prove popular.

[andrewn]

One thing Lossie does have is space and this will be the reason it was kept versus Leuchars, despite the latter having famously been renovated to support another 40yrs of fighter ops!

Re-opening Kinloss (for 9 a/c) is a pipe dream in my opinion, but agree that basing P-8 at Waddington makes some sense. What would maybe have more sense would have been to establish a 3rd Typhoon MOB at somewhere roughly inbetween the two current bases. Leeming? Leuchars? But I'd imagine budget constraints put paid to ideas such as those.

[Sevarg]

One answer to the lack of bases could be too share old airfields that are now in civil use. Teesside, Doncaster and Newquay to name a few. It may go against the grain to work with civilians but many other countries manage to make it work.
Apart from reducing the casts of running the field, other savings could be using the airline freight system to move spares. I'm sure more could be found.

[Finningley Boy]

It has always puzzled me that our Scottish cousins strongly sought freedom but wanted to give it up to Europe, odd that.
Having lived in Scotland for five years it seems an emotional decision when a true patriot does what is best for his country not what suits his mood

Tinribs, as a Scotsman I have long since come to the conclusion, which I assume all would agree, the SNP are about as nationalist as Jeremy Corbyn. They are a confirmed leftist socialist party with a simplistic and quite backward view of British Imperialism, or as they would see it, 'English Imperialism', they'd deny any active participation in the days of Empire by anyone from Scotland or anywhere else outside England that is, however, unrealistic that would be. Quite simply they see the English in pantomime terms, as all conservatives and plummy accents. They hate the English and in fact are anti-nationalists hence the desire, like many leftist liberals, to hand Scotland over to the European Union, they can't wait, the Nationalist identity is to exploit that very genuine sentiment among those Scots which they would regard in the same way that the likes of Emily Thornberry regards Nationalist sentiment, either British or English, among Englishmen.

Especially ones with White Vans!:E

FB:)

[ShotOne]

That may be so, FB, but it's possible to over-analyse what may well be good old-fashioned political opportunism by the SNP. It's not so long since their conferences were viciously anti-English; Wee Eck wisely realised that didn't wash but underlying sentiment not changed much imho.

Re. Joint mil/civilian operations, this would seem to make a lot of sense and is absolutely normal in much of the world. Perhaps (hopefully) there's a modern-day "Mickey Finn"-style plan for dispersal to avoid the "one bomb" scenario?

[hedgester]

IIRC there used to be three Buccaneer units 12 & 208 plus 237OCU, 226OCU jags, plus 8 Sqn Shacklebombers, and the SAR Flt, plus 48Sqn rocks and 2622 Aux Rocks as well. I think the Bucc units were all oversized including extra hunters for twin stickers, and that was before the two HAS sites were built..... Should all fit today methinks.

[glad rag]

It has always puzzled me that our Scottish cousins strongly sought freedom but wanted to give it up to Europe, odd that.
Having lived in Scotland for five years it seems an emotional decision when a true patriot does what is best for his country not what suits his mood
We didn't and don't.

You may wish to believe everything wee krankie spouts in her increasing desperation but the increasing majority do not.

[Sandy Parts]

Another side effect will be an influx of (most likely) non-SNP voters in the area. Given all those earning into the 40% tax bracket will be paying the 'SNP supplement' (no exemption for MoD as I understand it), it might change the local politics/politicians somewhat?

[Martin the Martian]

Looking practically at the airfield, and making use of Google Earth, I presume that two of the current Typhoon squadrons operate from the HAS sites and the other from the hardstanding adjacent to the control tower. Now, while I imagine a fourth operational Typhoon squadron could share that hardstanding and the OCU will presumably takeover the current Tornado OCU site, there seems a lack of room for a squadron of MPAs.

Unless they plan to shoehorn them into 202 Sqdn's now-vacant site;).

Either way, Lossie will surely have to have a lot of work to accommodate all that the MoD want to put there, and with the availability of space elsewhere I do wonder if the P-8s will go somewhere else.

Incidentally, and out of curiosity, where did 8 Sqdn have their operating area at Lossie?

[pr00ne]

Martin,

8 Squadron were in the two large hangars and the line where the Tornado OCU is now.


I still think that this is going to be far more actual aircraft than Lossie has ever had, even in the days of the Buccaneer, Jaguar and Shackleton. Not saying that it can't be done, but it is sure going to be difficult.

[mmitch]

Perhaps the P-8s could find room at St. Mawgan......:)
mmitch.

[gamecock]

Martin:


1 Sqn - 3 Hangar
II Sqn - Southern HAS site
6 Sqn - 1 Hangar


The DIO document has been removed now.

[Surplus]

http://i64.tinypic.com/2qnxkeq.jpg

[Skeleton]

Looking practically at the airfield, and making use of Google Earth, I presume that two of the current Typhoon squadrons operate from the HAS sites and the other from the hardstanding adjacent to the control tower. Now, while I imagine a fourth operational Typhoon squadron could share that hardstanding and the OCU will presumably takeover the current Tornado OCU site, there seems a lack of room for a squadron of MPAs.

Unless they plan to shoehorn them into 202 Sqdn's now-vacant site.

Their are 2 pans either side of the Tower, that were occupied by at one stage 2 Flights of 12 OCU Jaguars and their is another large pan adjacent to where the Tornado OCU currently operate from and the old 202 pan is a decent size to. Their is also the lazy runway which was regularly used to park aircraft on back in the day and may still happen.

Finding space to park the P-8's up for the evening is the easy bit me thinks, furnishing them with the super duper Hanger and brand new Squadron HQ they will no doubt require may be the hard bit.

[Martin the Martian]

I'm still doubtful that space could be made for the P-8s without a lot of money and concrete. Of course, with all of those aircraft stuffed into Lossie, I guess the various exercises and foreign detachments that have used it will have to go somewhere else now.

Thanks for the answers re 8 Sqdn.

[Finningley Boy]

The Government seem to be trying to avoid opening up any of the airfields which have been closed since the 2010 SDSR!?! But if the numbers are expanding , surely they've got to find another air base somewhere, if only to avoid imposing on the quality of life of service personnel.

FB:)

[serf]

Leuchars still has a runway....

[bluetail]

Apart from the two HAS that are now used for Q, the Lossie northern HAS site is not in use That still leaves loads of space for two Typhoon units and the P8s, Charlie & Delta Hards are also plenty big enough as is proven during JW exercises. But I do agree there isn't much room left for the Ops Support & Sqn HQs unless they flatten some of the current buildings, eg the old Engine facility building.

I reckon the other concern is where are all the new staff going to be housed, by my reckoning in the order of a conservative 1000 additional aircrew & groundies need to be found places to work on base and of course families housed.

[Wander00]

bluetail, and your last phrase will be bottom of the pile............

[bluetail]

serf....And so has Kinloss

Wander....unfortunately probably very true

[Skeleton]

Apart from the two HAS that are now used for Q, the Lossie northern HAS site is not in use That still leaves loads of space for two Typhoon units and the P8s, Charlie & Delta Hards are also plenty big enough as is proven during JW exercises. But I do agree there isn't much room left for the Ops Support & Sqn HQs unless they flatten some of the current buildings, eg the old Engine facility building.

I reckon the other concern is where are all the new staff going to be housed, by my reckoning in the order of a conservative 1000 additional aircrew & groundies need to be found places to work on base and of course families housed.

The housing was their as you probably well know, sadly somebody decided the place was never going to fill up again and sold the majority of it off. I think you have hit the nail on the head. Similar to Scampton, the airfield is their but the housing is gone. Limits your options on what you can put back.

As Wander says someone will suddenly realise Elgin is not full of MQ's anymore after they decide to max out the base again. Decision by then has been made, cue resultant make do plans and hope the single accommodation can cope as people wait for MQ's.

Also seems to be a Lossie tradition to build new Sqn HQ's every time a new Sqn arrives, unless your the Jaguar OCU of course. We got to move out of the palatial new build into a couple of Hunter used portacabins the other side of the A/F to make way for the Buccaneers.

serf....And so has Kinloss

Still a relief landing ground but sadly another fail when it comes to housing. Southside was sold off even before the Army arrived.

The shrunken RAF undoubtedly has fewer accommodation needs but its getting to the stage where the empty singly block next to you wsill be rented out to house the local chavs.

[QTRZulu]

Skeleton,

One option to solve the Sqn and Ops conundrum is to do what we did when the runway was being repaired at Kinloss. i.e you have the airframes 'boltholed' at Lossie but the Sqn and Ops setup is based at Kinloss.

The infrastructure is already in place so this would reduce the cost massively and also increase the footfall at Kinloss. Some may argue that it adds too much time to your day for the 20 minute each way shuttle from Sqn to line, but it is doable although agree that a hanger will be required somewhere at Lossie for maintenance

[andrewn]

Skeleton,

One option to solve the Sqn and Ops conundrum is to do what we did when the runway was being repaired at Kinloss. i.e you have the airframes 'boltholed' at Lossie but the Sqn and Ops setup is based at Kinloss.

The infrastructure is already in place so this would reduce the cost massively and also increase the footfall at Kinloss. Some may argue that it adds too much time to your day for the 20 minute each way shuttle from Sqn to line, but it is doable although agree that a hanger will be required somewhere at Lossie for maintenance

I thought i read a while ago that new hangarage and hardstanding at Lossie was part of the P-8 masterplan?