View Full Version : Russian pilot was a Nav with a pilots licence but there was no record of any training

27th Sep 2016, 18:07
I know it's the Sun, but if it is true it's very damning


27th Sep 2016, 18:54
From the report it appears that the reporter is simply describing the opinions of the coroner and the AAIB examiner. Not folk generally given to sensationalism.

pax britanica
27th Sep 2016, 19:27
Very sad for all who lost loved ones but seriously, as a Brit/ Western European what on earth are you doing flying on an airline like that -how many ppruners would fly with them.

The lady concerned probably had no idea about airlines and aircraft but surely her employers had a duty to look at the risks of flying to places like that not for oil exploration or something with an evident 'frontier' type feel to it but working for a boarding school!

27th Sep 2016, 20:25

The Sun identifies the aircraft as at 727, but our PPRuNe thread shows it to be a 737. Such basic fact checking should not be this hard. :=

27th Sep 2016, 20:26
What about crash in Rostov-on-Don?

Same scenario but trained pilots were in the cockpit.

Hotel Tango
27th Sep 2016, 21:52
The Sun identifies the aircraft as at 727, but our PPRuNe thread shows it to be a 737

True, but the reality is that anyone in the business will know it was a B737 and the vast majority not in the business wouldn't know the difference anyway! ;)

fox niner
28th Sep 2016, 03:49
And besides, the whole 727/737 thing is not relevant.
An non-qualified pilot flying a 727 is just damning as a non-qualified pilot flying a 737.

ATC Watcher
28th Sep 2016, 05:35
pax britanica : seriously, as a Brit/ Western European what on earth are you doing flying on an airline like that
Because you have no choice .And even if you had , no guarantee. Main airlines often charter/sublease in case AOG.

Reminds me of the Olympic/ Aerosvitt crash in Thessaloniki. There also, " Western Europeans " bought Olympic tickets expecting a a 737 , and ended up on a Ukrainian Aerosvit Yak 42 with may flaws , and they crashed in Thessaloniki.

As to pilot licensing issue, this is what you get with corruption .

28th Sep 2016, 07:28
There are places in the world where your alternative to flying is not simply as bad, but worse. Consider the risks of using long distance buses in some countries against the risks of flying. For all the problems in recent years in Indonesia I'd rather a flight than most of the ferries plying between islands.

In an ideal world these are risks we should not have to be weighing but in reality it's part of the risk you take every time you put one foot in front of the other.

As a society we're not good at understanding and evaluating risk.

ATC Watcher
28th Sep 2016, 07:32
WHBM : Because you have no choice
Mainstream Aeroflot also fly Moscow to Kazan
Of course they do , but my point was that you cannot be sure what type of a/c and/or what airline will do the trip that day in the end. It is not your choice, even if you buy a mainstream carrier ticket.

28th Sep 2016, 07:32
I seem to remember that there was a Swedish captain flying out of Amsterdam who did not even have a ppl. There was a thread about it, a while back.

28th Sep 2016, 08:44
Knowing Russia I would think it much more likely that the training records were lost than the pilot had not had any qualification. The Russians are not aviation novices, and I think we can all agree it's pretty unlikely to even get a 737 off stand without some significant training . I see the coroner questioned that the pilot had initially been a navigator. That was absolutely standard progression on the Soviet types in use until recently, all of which had a Nav and an FE.

Heathrow Harry
28th Sep 2016, 09:14
"in Indonesia I'd rather a flight than most of the ferries plying between islands"

Indeed - on an aircraft you don't normally have to sit/sleep on your luggage to stop it being ransacked by your fellow passengers (or the crew) - and we won't talk about safety measures because there aren't any.................................

pax britanica
28th Sep 2016, 12:32
I know that a/c can be subbed-BA are doing it at the moment with a 737 which from a pax pov is inferior to an Airbus . In several countries domestic airline travel is not close to international standards and people travelling should ensure their employers do a risk assessment. In her case the school probably does a risk assessment to take kids to the local park but not to expose a staff member to the vagaries of air travel in the 'stans.

Why on earth go to nowheresville place like she did for a relatively minor
business issue-i am sure the school wasn't depending on hordes of prospective students . There are still a lot of places in the world where travel and flying presents a significantly greater risk than in the developed world.

Heathrow Harry
29th Sep 2016, 09:39
TBF she probably fancy something exotic & different rather than the daily grind in the UK

30th Sep 2016, 06:50
This thread reminds me of 2011 Lokomotiv Yaroslavl air disaster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Lokomotiv_Yaroslavl_air_disaster) when pilots falsified training records and management knew about it.

The CEO of the company Vadim Timofeyev (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/russian-airline-ceo-guilty-in-lokomotiv-plane-crash-case-170143213.html) was sentenced to five years in prison but he was pardoned (https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/russian-lawmakers-approve-prisoner-amnesty-in-honor-of-victory-day-46077) right away.